Nottingham is a two-club city so really Leicester City ought to do better. Historically though Forest are the biggest club in the region and have won two European cups.
Technically Nottingham is a one club city as Forest play in Rushcliffe.
Which is itself an oddity with the 'city' club playing in the county and the 'county' club playing in the city.
I never knew that. Same applies to Manchester as United play in Trafford.
The name Manchester United was the rebranding of Newton Heath FC after it had needed to be bailed out.
You replied to a comment about exactly that! And then said it's good they get get insulted when I asked specifically about bringing comparisons to Nazis into it.
Why did you reply to the comment that said comparing Israel to Nazis is antisemitic by disagreeing with it? How Ken are you?
Now you are just getting desperate. I replied to an ongoing conversation thread about anti-Semitism with the following comment:
"No matter how much their supporters try to make it so, Israel and Judaism are not synonymous. Indeed plenty of Orthodox Jews claim the existence of Israel is against Jewish teachings.
To claim that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic is merely a way to shut down debate."
At no point did I mention Nazis nor did my comment make an reference or inference about them. It was a general comment and if the only way you can counter it is by straw man arguments then clearly you lack the ability to argue your case cogently or reasonably.
You replied to a comment about the definition of antisemitism including comparison to Nazis. It said nothing else. You replied as if comparison of Israel to Nazis was just part of criticising Israel. That was why I asked specifically about it in my reply to you. You said they deserve it. Don't try to rewrite the conversation.
I don't see Jews ever again accepting a situation where they are a minority in a country dependant on the kindness or tolerance of non-Jews, no matter what the constitution or laws say and no matter what guarantees they get from outsiders.
Jews have learnt the hard way that when you are in a minority you are vulnerable, no matter how integrated you are, no matter what your contributions, no matter how good a citizen you are, no matter even if you fight for your country of birth. They are determined to have one place in the world where that does not obtain. And looking at recent history and, indeed, at what has been happening in places such as France in recent years, it is perfectly understandable. Even if it does mean that in their Jewish home they behave to other minorities in a way which is bloody awful and damaging to their own long term interests.
But I think they prefer being disliked but alive to being victims (again) and dead or persecuted.
A two-state solution - as envisaged 70 years ago - is the only way to go.
Why should anyone else accept this? Countries should be for people that live in them.
Why shouldn't they? It was after all the decision of the UN - which pretty much represents the rest of the world - and it provides a homeland for both Jews and Palestinians. Jews have lived in the land of Israel for much much longer than Arabs. I don't accept the assumption that the group which arrived last in a region has somehow a greater right to live there than those who were there beforehand and who continue to live there.
While it was a convenient fiction for early Israeli leaders to describe Israel as "A land without a people for a people without a land" it is also a fiction to say that there were no Jews living in the land of Israel before the 20th century and that only the Palestinians have a claim to live there.
While I would like there to be a homeland for the Palestinians I simply will not support any solution which entails the destruction of Israel and the expulsion (or worse) of Jews. It might be easier for peace to be achieved if some of those groups complaining about Israel's behaviour explicitly forswore these as ambitions.
While I understand the attraction of Jerusalem and the Holy Land as the most romantically/historically/religiously perfect place for a Jewish state, I do wonder what the world would look like if Israel has been set up in, say, Namibia, or Western Australia, or Texas.
There was an active debate in the 20s and 30s whether the Jewish state should be established in Palestine or Patagonia
You replied to a comment about exactly that! And then said it's good they get get insulted when I asked specifically about bringing comparisons to Nazis into it.
Why did you reply to the comment that said comparing Israel to Nazis is antisemitic by disagreeing with it? How Ken are you?
Now you are just getting desperate. I replied to an ongoing conversation thread about anti-Semitism with the following comment:
"No matter how much their supporters try to make it so, Israel and Judaism are not synonymous. Indeed plenty of Orthodox Jews claim the existence of Israel is against Jewish teachings.
To claim that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic is merely a way to shut down debate."
At no point did I mention Nazis nor did my comment make an reference or inference about them. It was a general comment and if the only way you can counter it is by straw man arguments then clearly you lack the ability to argue your case cogently or reasonably.
You replied to a comment about the definition of antisemitism including comparison to Nazis. It said nothing else. You replied as if comparison of Israel to Nazis was just part of criticising Israel. That was why I asked specifically about it in my reply to you. You said they deserve it. Don't try to rewrite the conversation.
And in any event "plenty" of Orthodox Jews don't claim the existence of Israel is against Jewish teaching. Some small extreme sects do, of particular note Neturei Karta, friends of Iran and Jobbik, who also believe the Holocaust was God's divine will because mainstream Jews are evil, or some similar bobbins.
Nottingham is a two-club city so really Leicester City ought to do better. Historically though Forest are the biggest club in the region and have won two European cups.
Technically Nottingham is a one club city as Forest play in Rushcliffe.
Which is itself an oddity with the 'city' club playing in the county and the 'county' club playing in the city.
I never knew that. Same applies to Manchester as United play in Trafford.
The name Manchester United was the rebranding of Newton Heath FC after it had needed to be bailed out.
Newton Heath Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway FC
I am always puzzled how in a city with 2 teams, one of them can be called 'United'.
Nottingham is a two-club city so really Leicester City ought to do better. Historically though Forest are the biggest club in the region and have won two European cups.
Technically Nottingham is a one club city as Forest play in Rushcliffe.
Which is itself an oddity with the 'city' club playing in the county and the 'county' club playing in the city.
I never knew that. Same applies to Manchester as United play in Trafford.
I don't see Jews ever again accepting a situation where they are a minority in a country dependant on the kindness or tolerance of non-Jews, no matter what the constitution or laws say and no matter what guarantees they get from outsiders.
Jews have learnt the hard way that when you are in a minority you are vulnerable, no matter how integrated you are, no matter what your contributions, no matter how good a citizen you are, no matter even if you fight for your country of birth. They are determined to have one place in the world where that does not obtain. And looking at recent history and, indeed, at what has been happening in places such as France in recent years, it is perfectly understandable. Even if it does mean that in their Jewish home they behave to other minorities in a way which is bloody awful and damaging to their own long term interests.
But I think they prefer being disliked but alive to being victims (again) and dead or persecuted.
A two-state solution - as envisaged 70 years ago - is the only way to go.
Why should anyone else accept this? Countries should be for people that live in them.
Didn't quite work out that way though for Jews living in Nazi Germany or Nazi occupied Europe though did it.
Hence the reason why they feel they need at least 1 country where they are a majority
No it didn't work out for Jews in Nazi Germany. And you know what? It is utterly irrelevant to Israel. Countries are for those that live in them and not for ghosts, however outrageous the history. Sorry.
If that were any kind of point at all, it would have been a point in 1948 or thereabouts. The people who live in Israel today are on the whole Jews, and Jews are therefore who it is now for. We have to start from where we currently are.
The people living in Israel today are not "on the whole Jews". Including the bantustans they are about half Jewish. Even if they were majority Jewish it still doesn't excuse discrimination. Countries are rightly judged by how they treat minorities. To be fair to Israel, it doesn't have a monopoly on discrimination in that part of the world.
For all its many faults, Israel is the safest place in the Middle East to be Christian, Druze, Bahai, or Athiest. It is the safest place to be a Communist, gay, Trans, or feminist. It is the best place to be a journalist, a scholar, an intellectual, a political protester or a conscientious objector. It is even the best place to be the wrong sort of Muslim.
Not that justifies the treatment of the Ppalestinians, but Israel is not the worst country in a bad neighbourhood.
I don't see Jews ever again accepting a situation where they are a minority in a country dependant on the kindness or tolerance of non-Jews, no matter what the constitution or laws say and no matter what guarantees they get from outsiders.
Jews have learnt the hard way that when you are in a minority you are vulnerable, no matter how integrated you are, no matter what your contributions, no matter how good a citizen you are, no matter even if you fight for your country of birth. They are determined to have one place in the world where that does not obtain. And looking at recent history and, indeed, at what has been happening in places such as France in recent years, it is perfectly understandable. Even if it does mean that in their Jewish home they behave to other minorities in a way which is bloody awful and damaging to their own long term interests.
But I think they prefer being disliked but alive to being victims (again) and dead or persecuted.
A two-state solution - as envisaged 70 years ago - is the only way to go.
Why should anyone else accept this? Countries should be for people that live in them.
Why shouldn't they? It was after all the decision of the UN - which pretty much represents the rest of the world - and it provides a homeland for both Jews and Palestinians. Jews have lived in the land of Israel for much much longer than Arabs. I don't accept the assumption that the group which arrived last in a region has somehow a greater right to live there than those who were there beforehand and who continue to live there.
While it was a convenient fiction for early Israeli leaders to describe Israel as "A land without a people for a people without a land" it is also a fiction to say that there were no Jews living in the land of Israel before the 20th century and that only the Palestinians have a claim to live there.
While I would like there to be a homeland for the Palestinians I simply will not support any solution which entails the destruction of Israel and the expulsion (or worse) of Jews. It might be easier for peace to be achieved if some of those groups complaining about Israel's behaviour explicitly forswore these as ambitions.
Strawman argument. No one on here has said anything about destroying Israel. But Israel neds to be back in its 1967 borders as agreed by the UN. The fact they were persecuted in the past does not give them the right to persecute others now.
Syria used to shell Israel from the Gokan Heights. A return of that strip of land coukd lead to similar behaviour in future
I don't see Jews ever again accepting a situation where they are a minority in a country dependant on the kindness or tolerance of non-Jews, no matter what the constitution or laws say and no matter what guarantees they get from outsiders.
Jews have learnt the hard way that when you are in a minority you are vulnerable, no matter how integrated you are, no matter what your contributions, no matter how good a citizen you are, no matter even if you fight for your country of birth. They are determined to have one place in the world where that does not obtain. And looking at recent history and, indeed, at what has been happening in places such as France in recent years, it is perfectly understandable. Even if it does mean that in their Jewish home they behave to other minorities in a way which is bloody awful and damaging to their own long term interests.
But I think they prefer being disliked but alive to being victims (again) and dead or persecuted.
A two-state solution - as envisaged 70 years ago - is the only way to go.
Why should anyone else accept this? Countries should be for people that live in them.
Why shouldn't they? It was after all the decision of the UN - which pretty much represents the rest of the world - and it provides a homeland for both Jews and Palestinians. Jews have lived in the land of Israel for much much longer than Arabs. I don't accept the assumption that the group which arrived last in a region has somehow a greater right to live there than those who were there beforehand and who continue to live there.
While it was a convenient fiction for early Israeli leaders to describe Israel as "A land without a people for a people without a land" it is also a fiction to say that there were no Jews living in the land of Israel before the 20th century and that only the Palestinians have a claim to live there.
While I would like there to be a homeland for the Palestinians I simply will not support any solution which entails the destruction of Israel and the expulsion (or worse) of Jews. It might be easier for peace to be achieved if some of those groups complaining about Israel's behaviour explicitly forswore these as ambitions.
While I understand the attraction of Jerusalem and the Holy Land as the most romantically/historically/religiously perfect place for a Jewish state, I do wonder what the world would look like if Israel has been set up in, say, Namibia, or Western Australia, or Texas.
There was an active debate in the 20s and 30s whether the Jewish state should be established in Palestine or Patagonia
The line closed in 1970, and I don't think (though could be wrong) that it wasn't mentioned in either report ...
The Beeching Cuts were essentially an ass-covering exercise by government. Both Labour and the Conservatives wanted the railways to stop haemorrhaging money, and either could have stopped the closures if they had desired. In fact, they did in some cases (famously the loss-making Mid Wales line, which ran through several Labour constituencies). In other cases, lines that were not in the report were closed (e.g. Matlock to Buxton).
Don't blame Beeching: he did what his political masters asked of him. Although as Richard T says below, the data on which he made his decisions was limited, generally he got it right and there are far more lines rightfully closed - even with hindsight - than were wrongly closed.
Even the Great Central closure made sense at the time, as did the Waverley.
The real shame was not keeping the routes intact so they could be reopened if necessary later - the land was often sold off piecemeal with undue haste. Witness also (allegedly) the destruction of the GC route through Nottingham. A massively wasted opportunity.
There is a lot of movement towards reopening several lies in the East Midlands. Both the Nottingham to Melton and the Leicester to Burton Lines are in quite advanced planning stages. This is on the back of the reopening of the Nottingham to Worksop 'Robin Hood' line which was reopened in the 90s. That is now likely to be extended to Ollerton. All of these lines were closed in the 60s.
The Ivanhoe Line (Burton to Leicester)
Ivanhoe
Chapter 1
In that pleasant district of merry England which is watered by the river Don, there extended in ancient times a large forest, covering the greater part of the beautiful hills and valleys which lie between Sheffield and the pleasant town of Doncaster. The remains of this extensive wood are still to be seen at the noble seats of Wentworth, of Wharncliffe Park, and around Rotherham. Here haunted of yore the fabulous Dragon of Wantley; here were fought many of the most desperate battles during the Civil Wars of the Roses; and here also flourished in ancient times those bands of gallant outlaws, whose deeds have been rendered so popular in English song.
Such being our chief scene ...
The Ivanhoe line runs Doncaster-Conisbrough-Rotherham-Sheffield.
You might be right about the provenance, but in railway terms it's Burton to Leicester:
For some others it's a deliberately offensive insult.
And for yet some others it's a way of delegitimising the very concept of Israel, of a home for Jews. If that Jewish home is no better than Nazis, why would we want it to exist any more than we would want Nazism to
There are plenty of good reasons for criticising what Israel does without needing to make hyperbolic, insulting and usually wholly untrue statements which tend to reflect badly on those making them and detract from the force or otherwise of the criticism.
But those who do the whole "Israel is the new Nazi Germany" shtick are following the dictum of that infamous Nazi, Goebbels, - "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
I think though Mr Tyndall is wrong in what he says: Israel - the land of Israel (rather than any political state) - is pretty central to Judaism, Jewish ceremonies and key Jewish religious remembrance days. Asking Jews to pretend that this is not so is like asking Muslims to pretend that Mecca is not central to their religion.
And, from the previous thread, on what has been happening in Gaza in recent days -
Even if most of those killed were members of Hamas Israel's actions seem to me (based only on what I have been reading) to be disproportionate, possibly crimes and foolish since they do nothing to calm an already inflamed and difficult situation and perpetuate a vicious cycle of grievance, martyrdom, reaction, defensiveness, aggression and fear.
I do not hold with the seemingly fashionable view that Israel is wholly to blame and wholly evil and the Palestinians are purely innocent victims. The situation is much more complicated. But Israel does not seem to me to have an intelligent long-term strategy and, as the stronger party, is behaving in a way which, quite apart from any other considerations, risks weakening its long-term position.
Strangely, Israel's friends and foes have a shared interest in making the country to be exceptional. In my view it is a deeply mediocre country. Not uniquely awful, but awful enough for a large part of its inhabitants. If there is ever to be a "solution" in my view it is as a single state that stretches from the Mediterranean to the Jordan, that is neither Jewish nor Palestinian but which institutionalises the fact of there being about half of each,
Wasn’t that the proposal made by Richard the Lionheart?
(Yes, seriously! Albeit Christians/Muslims/Jews)
Lebanon. You've invented Lebanon.
Also, if your solution to middle east peace is "Israel should be more like Lebanon" then you're off your nut.
I don't see Jews ever again accepting a situation where they are a minority in a country dependant on the kindness or tolerance of non-Jews, no matter what the constitution or laws say and no matter what guarantees they get from outsiders.
Jews have learnt the hard way that when you are in a minority you are vulnerable, no matter how integrated you are, no matter what your contributions, no matter how good a citizen you are, no matter even if you fight for your country of birth. They are determined to have one place in the world where that does not obtain. And looking at recent history and, indeed, at what has been happening in places such as France in recent years, it is perfectly understandable. Even if it does mean that in their Jewish home they behave to other minorities in a way which is bloody awful and damaging to their own long term interests.
But I think they prefer being disliked but alive to being victims (again) and dead or persecuted.
A two-state solution - as envisaged 70 years ago - is the only way to go.
Why should anyone else accept this? Countries should be for people that live in them.
Didn't quite work out that way though for Jews living in Nazi Germany or Nazi occupied Europe though did it.
Hence the reason why they feel they need at least 1 country where they are a majority
No it didn't work out for Jews in Nazi Germany. And you know what? It is utterly irrelevant to Israel. Countries are for those that live in them and not for ghosts, however outrageous the history. Sorry.
If that were any kind of point at all, it would have been a point in 1948 or thereabouts. The people who live in Israel today are on the whole Jews, and Jews are therefore who it is now for. We have to start from where we currently are.
The people living in Israel today are not "on the whole Jews". Including the bantustans they are about half Jewish. Even if they were majority Jewish it still doesn't excuse discrimination. Countries are rightly judged by how they treat minorities. To be fair to Israel, it doesn't have a monopoly on discrimination in that part of the world.
So what was your point in saying "Countries are for those that live in them and not for ghosts, however outrageous the history?"
Nottingham is a two-club city so really Leicester City ought to do better. Historically though Forest are the biggest club in the region and have won two European cups.
Technically Nottingham is a one club city as Forest play in Rushcliffe.
Which is itself an oddity with the 'city' club playing in the county and the 'county' club playing in the city.
I never knew that. Same applies to Manchester as United play in Trafford.
Nottingham is a two-club city so really Leicester City ought to do better. Historically though Forest are the biggest club in the region and have won two European cups.
Technically Nottingham is a one club city as Forest play in Rushcliffe.
Which is itself an oddity with the 'city' club playing in the county and the 'county' club playing in the city.
I never knew that. Same applies to Manchester as United play in Trafford.
Change at Stratford for West Ham
Change at Baker Street for Arsenal?!?
No, no! You miss the point - West Ham are not based near West Ham station, but near Stratford (and until a couple of years ago, they were based near Upton Park station).
If Israel said no problem, we'll move to a new terraformed island in the Med and forget all the history of our homeland and give it to the Palestinians, would that fix everything?
Berwick to Edinburgh and on to Leuchars Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk Glasgow to Edinburgh via Airdrie Glasgow to Ayr Glasgow to Balloch Carlisle to Glasgow via Motherwell Glasgow Subway Edinburgh Tram
The line closed in 1970, and I don't think (though could be wrong) that it wasn't mentioned in either report ...
...
The real shame was not keeping the routes intact so they could be reopened if necessary later - the land was often sold off piecemeal with undue haste. Witness also (allegedly) the destruction of the GC route through Nottingham. A massively wasted opportunity.
There is a lot of movement towards reopening several lies in the East Midlands. Both the Nottingham to Melton and the Leicester to Burton Lines are in quite advanced planning stages. This is on the back of the reopening of the Nottingham to Worksop 'Robin Hood' line which was reopened in the 90s. That is now likely to be extended to Ollerton. All of these lines were closed in the 60s.
)
I didn't take it as a parochial comment, just simple fact.
The one that causes the most confusion is Robin Hood Airport at Doncaster. No end of people travel there thinking it is near Nottingham because of the Robin Hood name.
I can imagine. Whether or not Hood existed and whether or not, if he did, he was in fact from South Yorkshire, he is inextricably linked both domestically and internationally with Nottingham and that simply isn’t going to change. Doncaster might try to find its own hero.
I guess they came close with Ed Miliband!
I am very fond of Nottingham, in many ways, having spent a quarter of my life there. But good grief Nottinghamians can be protective about Robin Hood. At the place I used to work, copies of the Nottingham Evening Post were strewn about the place. I'd say by far the most common subject of letters during the time I was there (first decade of this century) was indignance that another town was using the name of Robin Hood for its airport. The second most common subject of letters was a vague wish that Nottingham Castle was more medeival, and half-baked proposals for how this might be brought about.
FWIW, Robin Hood Airport appears, rather than renaming itself, just to be amassing more and more names - it's official name is now Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. I see no reason why it couldn't tack Ivanhoe on to the end of all that.
I don't see Jews ever again accepting a situation where they are a minority in a country dependant on the kindness or tolerance of non-Jews, no matter what the constitution or laws say and no matter what guarantees they get from outsiders.
Jews have learnt the hard way that when you are in a minority you are vulnerable, no matter how integrated you are, no matter what your contributions, no matter how good a citizen you are, no matter even if you fight for your country of birth. They are determined to have one place in the world where that does not obtain. And looking at recent history and, indeed, at what has been happening in places such as France in recent years, it is perfectly understandable. Even if it does mean that in their Jewish home they behave to other minorities in a way which is bloody awful and damaging to their own long term interests.
But I think they prefer being disliked but alive to being victims (again) and dead or persecuted.
A two-state solution - as envisaged 70 years ago - is the only way to go.
Why should anyone else accept this? Countries should be for people that live in them.
Didn't quite work out that way though for Jews living in Nazi Germany or Nazi occupied Europe though did it.
Hence the reason why they feel they need at least 1 country where they are a majority
No it didn't work out for Jews in Nazi Germany. And you know what? It is utterly irrelevant to Israel. Countries are for those that live in them and not for ghosts, however outrageous the history. Sorry.
If that were any kind of point at all, it would have been a point in 1948 or thereabouts. The people who live in Israel today are on the whole Jews, and Jews are therefore who it is now for. We have to start from where we currently are.
The people living in Israel today are not "on the whole Jews". Including the bantustans they are about half Jewish. Even if they were majority Jewish it still doesn't excuse discrimination. Countries are rightly judged by how they treat minorities. To be fair to Israel, it doesn't have a monopoly on discrimination in that part of the world.
So what was your point in saying "Countries are for those that live in them and not for ghosts, however outrageous the history?"
My point is that it isn't acceptable on the principle to construct an artificial Jewish homeland by displacing or discriminating against people who live there because of a historical act of murder elsewhere.
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
In full: "Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of a 60-strong group of Eurosceptic Tory MPs, said: "The risk of the Government using all its mental energy on the fallback position is that they create a position that is more attractive than a permanent deal.
"We have gone from a clear end point, to an extension, to a proposed further extension with no end point. The horizon seems to be unreachable. The bottom of the rainbow seems to be unattainable. People voted to leave, they did not vote for a perpetual purgatory.""
There seem to me to be some rather striking implied admissions in that. The end of the rainbow doesn't just look unattainable, it actually is unattainable. that's the whole point.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
I don't think this will be acceptable to Ireland as a replacement to the backstop. If it runs out in 2021, what happens after that? It's not a backstop at all if it isn't the ultimate default situation.
My point is that it isn't acceptable on the principle to construct an artificial Jewish homeland by displacing or discriminating against people who live there because of a historical act of murder elsewhere.
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
Again, those are 1948 points. The homeland was constructed several generations ago, and the Jews who now live in Israel, now have the right to be in Israel, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of their great grandparents' generation.
He proposed that over-65s should use equity release schemes to pay a compulsory "Care Insurance Fee" of around £30,000.
But those with mortgages to get their contribution paid by the taxpayer FFS.
It's utterly ludicrous. I note he had another proposal to charge over 40s more NI too and signalled "no u-turn" on the Tories disastrous 2017 manifesto plans. I bet it wouldn't lead to any reduction in council tax either.
I am very fond of Nottingham, in many ways, having spent a quarter of my life there. But good grief Nottinghamians can be protective about Robin Hood. At the place I used to work, copies of the Nottingham Evening Post were strewn about the place. I'd say by far the most common subject of letters during the time I was there (first decade of this century) was indignance that another town was using the name of Robin Hood for its airport. The second most common subject of letters was a vague wish that Nottingham Castle was more medeival, and half-baked proposals for how this might be brought about.
FWIW, Robin Hood Airport appears, rather than renaming itself, just to be amassing more and more names - it's official name is now Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. I see no reason why it couldn't tack Ivanhoe on to the end of all that.
The problem is not with people from Nottingham, it is with those who travel to 'Robin Hood' Airport expecting to be anywhere near Nottingham. It has caused genuine problems particularly with a lot of Eastern Europeans who are coming for jobs in the city and who find themselves a £70 taxi ride away.
The line closed in 1970, and I don't think (though could be wrong) that it wasn't mentioned in either report ...
...
The real shame was not keeping the routes intact so they could be reopened if necessary later - the land was often sold off piecemeal with undue haste. Witness also (allegedly) the destruction of the GC route through Nottingham. A massively wasted opportunity.
There is a lot of movement towards reopening several lies in the East Midlands. Both the Nottingham to Melton and the Leicester to Burton Lines are in quite advanced planning stages. This is on the back of the reopening of the Nottingham to Worksop 'Robin Hood' line which was reopened in the 90s. That is now likely to be extended to Ollerton. All of these lines were closed in the 60s.
)
I didn't take it as a parochial comment, just simple fact.
The one that causes the most confusion is Robin Hood Airport at Doncaster. No end of people travel there thinking it is near Nottingham because of the Robin Hood name.
I can imagine. Whether or not Hood existed and whether or not, if he did, he was in fact from South Yorkshire, he is inextricably linked both domestically and internationally with Nottingham and that simply isn’t going to change. Doncaster might try to find its own hero.
I guess they came close with Ed Miliband!
I am very fond of Nottingham, in many ways, having spent a quarter of my life there. But good grief Nottinghamians can be protective about Robin Hood. At the place I used to work, copies of the Nottingham Evening Post were strewn about the place. I'd say by far the most common subject of letters during the time I was there (first decade of this century) was indignance that another town was using the name of Robin Hood for its airport. The second most common subject of letters was a vague wish that Nottingham Castle was more medeival, and half-baked proposals for how this might be brought about.
FWIW, Robin Hood Airport appears, rather than renaming itself, just to be amassing more and more names - it's official name is now Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. I see no reason why it couldn't tack Ivanhoe on to the end of all that.
My point is that it isn't acceptable on the principle to construct an artificial Jewish homeland by displacing or discriminating against people who live there because of a historical act of murder elsewhere.
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
Again, those are 1948 points. The homeland was constructed several generations ago, and the Jews who now live in Israel, now have the right to be in Israel, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of their great grandparents' generation.
No they are absolutely today's points. The discrimination and displacement continue. The bantustans are the product of Israel's demographic policy.
Edit. To be clear I don't dispute the right of post 1947 Jewish immigrants to be Israeli.
You replied to a comment about exactly that! And then said it's good they get get insulted when I asked specifically about bringing comparisons to Nazis into it.
Why did you reply to the comment that said comparing Israel to Nazis is antisemitic by disagreeing with it? How Ken are you?
Now you are just getting desperate. I replied to an ongoing conversation thread about anti-Semitism with the following comment:
"No matter how much their supporters try to make it so, Israel and Judaism are not synonymous. Indeed plenty of Orthodox Jews claim the existence of Israel is against Jewish teachings.
To claim that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic is merely a way to shut down debate."
At no point did I mention Nazis nor did my comment make an reference or inference about them. It was a general comment and if the only way you can counter it is by straw man arguments then clearly you lack the ability to argue your case cogently or reasonably.
You replied to a comment about the definition of antisemitism including comparison to Nazis. It said nothing else. You replied as if comparison of Israel to Nazis was just part of criticising Israel. That was why I asked specifically about it in my reply to you. You said they deserve it. Don't try to rewrite the conversation.
Its you who are rewriting the conversations because of the hole you have dug for yourself. Very silly.
In full: "Jacob Rees-Mogg, the leader of a 60-strong group of Eurosceptic Tory MPs, said: "The risk of the Government using all its mental energy on the fallback position is that they create a position that is more attractive than a permanent deal.
"We have gone from a clear end point, to an extension, to a proposed further extension with no end point. The horizon seems to be unreachable. The bottom of the rainbow seems to be unattainable. People voted to leave, they did not vote for a perpetual purgatory.""
There seem to me to be some rather striking implied admissions in that. The end of the rainbow doesn't just look unattainable, it actually is unattainable. that's the whole point.
Ha! Indeed. Rees might just as well have said: “The oasis in the desert is a mirage. It isn’t there.”
I am very fond of Nottingham, in many ways, having spent a quarter of my life there. But good grief Nottinghamians can be protective about Robin Hood. At the place I used to work, copies of the Nottingham Evening Post were strewn about the place. I'd say by far the most common subject of letters during the time I was there (first decade of this century) was indignance that another town was using the name of Robin Hood for its airport. The second most common subject of letters was a vague wish that Nottingham Castle was more medeival, and half-baked proposals for how this might be brought about.
FWIW, Robin Hood Airport appears, rather than renaming itself, just to be amassing more and more names - it's official name is now Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. I see no reason why it couldn't tack Ivanhoe on to the end of all that.
The problem is not with people from Nottingham, it is with those who travel to 'Robin Hood' Airport expecting to be anywhere near Nottingham. It has caused genuine problems particularly with a lot of Eastern Europeans who are coming for jobs in the city and who find themselves a £70 taxi ride away.
Robin Hood Airport is however only about a mile away from Nottinghamshire
My point is that it isn't acceptable on the principle to construct an artificial Jewish homeland by displacing or discriminating against people who live there because of a historical act of murder elsewhere.
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
Again, those are 1948 points. The homeland was constructed several generations ago, and the Jews who now live in Israel, now have the right to be in Israel, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of their great grandparents' generation.
No they are absolutely today's points. The discrimination and displacement continue. The bantustans are the product of Israel's demographic policy.
If only the Arabs accepted the Two-state Solution back in 1948, as outlined in UN General Assembly Resolution 181.
I don't see Jews ever again accepting a situation where they are a minority in a country dependant on the kindness or tolerance of non-Jews, no matter what the constitution or laws say and no matter what guarantees they get from outsiders.
Jews have learnt the hard way that when you are in a minority you are vulnerable, no matter how integrated you are, no matter what your contributions, no matter how good a citizen you are, no matter even if you fight for your country of birth. They are determined to have one place in the world where that does not obtain. And looking at recent history and, indeed, at what has been happening in places such as France in recent years, it is perfectly understandable. Even if it does mean that in their Jewish home they behave to other minorities in a way which is bloody awful and damaging to their own long term interests.
But I think they prefer being disliked but alive to being victims (again) and dead or persecuted.
A two-state solution - as envisaged 70 years ago - is the only way to go.
Why should anyone else accept this? Countries should be for people that live in them.
Why shouldn't they? It was after all the decision of the UN - which pretty much represents the rest of the world - and it provides a homeland for both Jews and Palestinians. Jews have lived in the land of Israel for much much longer than Arabs. I don't accept the assumption that the group which arrived last in a region has somehow a greater right to live there than those who were there beforehand and who continue to live there.
While it was a convenient fiction for early Israeli leaders to describe Israel as "A land without a people for a people without a land" it is also a fiction to say that there were no Jews living in the land of Israel before the 20th century and that only the Palestinians have a claim to live there.
While I would like there to be a homeland for the Palestinians I simply will not support any solution which entails the destruction of Israel and the expulsion (or worse) of Jews. It might be easier for peace to be achieved if some of those groups complaining about Israel's behaviour explicitly forswore these as ambitions.
Strawman argument. No one on here has said anything about destroying Israel. But Israel neds to be back in its 1967 borders as agreed by the UN. The fact they were persecuted in the past does not give them the right to persecute others now.
Syria used to shell Israel from the Gokan Heights. A return of that strip of land coukd lead to similar behaviour in future
Now Israel shell and rocket Syria from the Golan Heights , so your point is?
I suggested this position a few weeks ago. As long as it is time limited, I don't see the issue. It is not like free movement where you get a hundred thousand more unskilled workers every year. Ideally you get to a position where you are no longer dependent on the DUP too.
Sad to see Thornberry join the far left, Putin-stooges.
It's quite a propaganda feat for Russia to have simultaneously seduced far-right stooges around the world while keeping their traditional cohort of far-left ones on board.
I suppose the fact that most of them are incredibly ignorant about Russia helps.
So is being a Moscow stooge worse than being a Brussels stooge?
Moscow is (currently) a hostile foreign power. Brussels is us.
And I speak as a Russophile who regrets the current schism.
Genuine question: what is it about Russia that you like?
Language, culture, history, people. Moscow is one of the most inspiring cities in the world and the country itself is a vast melting pot.
I am very fond of Nottingham, in many ways, having spent a quarter of my life there. But good grief Nottinghamians can be protective about Robin Hood. At the place I used to work, copies of the Nottingham Evening Post were strewn about the place. I'd say by far the most common subject of letters during the time I was there (first decade of this century) was indignance that another town was using the name of Robin Hood for its airport. The second most common subject of letters was a vague wish that Nottingham Castle was more medeival, and half-baked proposals for how this might be brought about.
FWIW, Robin Hood Airport appears, rather than renaming itself, just to be amassing more and more names - it's official name is now Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. I see no reason why it couldn't tack Ivanhoe on to the end of all that.
The problem is not with people from Nottingham, it is with those who travel to 'Robin Hood' Airport expecting to be anywhere near Nottingham. It has caused genuine problems particularly with a lot of Eastern Europeans who are coming for jobs in the city and who find themselves a £70 taxi ride away.
Robin Hood Airport is however only about a mile away from Nottinghamshire
You replied to a comment about exactly that! And then said it's good they get get insulted when I asked specifically about bringing comparisons to Nazis into it.
Why did you reply to the comment that said comparing Israel to Nazis is antisemitic by disagreeing with it? How Ken are you?
Now you are just getting desperate. I replied to an ongoing conversation thread about anti-Semitism with the following comment:
"No matter how much their supporters try to make it so, Israel and Judaism are not synonymous. Indeed plenty of Orthodox Jews claim the existence of Israel is against Jewish teachings.
To claim that criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic is merely a way to shut down debate."
At no point did I mention Nazis nor did my comment make an reference or inference about them. It was a general comment and if the only way you can counter it is by straw man arguments then clearly you lack the ability to argue your case cogently or reasonably.
You replied to a comment about the definition of antisemitism including comparison to Nazis. It said nothing else. You replied as if comparison of Israel to Nazis was just part of criticising Israel. That was why I asked specifically about it in my reply to you. You said they deserve it. Don't try to rewrite the conversation.
Its you who are rewriting the conversations because of the hole you have dug for yourself. Very silly.
So is comparison of Israel to the Nazis antisemitic? That's all that matters from my side of this drivel you're presenting. You've been replying to statements about it by appearing to disagree with it without having the balls to actually say so.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the customs union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
Staying in the single market and keeping free movement and all the rules of the EEA too is which is why both May and Corbyn have committed to leave the single market, so whether the Tories or Labour win the next general election we will definitely leave the single market and end free movement even if both parties are now moving towards staying in the customs union longer term in part to resolve the Irish border issue
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the Customs Union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
The problem is there are enough of those in parliament to cause major issues.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the Customs Union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
The problem is there are enough of those in parliament to cause major issues.
Not enough Tory lapdogs to allow May to get it through and survive. Bring out the tumbrils.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the Customs Union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
The problem is there are enough of those in parliament to cause major issues.
Major issues maybe but with Corbyn also backing staying in the Customs Union it would get through Parliament.
As of tonight May and Corbyn's Brexit position is almost identical, implement Brexit, leave the single market and end free movement but have a transition period and stay in the customs union longer term.
Both are now closer to each other on Brexit than Corbyn is to Labour pro single market diehard Remainers and May is to Tory anti customs union hardline Brexiteers
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
I am very fond of Nottingham, in many ways, having spent a quarter of my life there. But good grief Nottinghamians can be protective about Robin Hood. At the place I used to work, copies of the Nottingham Evening Post were strewn about the place. I'd say by far the most common subject of letters during the time I was there (first decade of this century) was indignance that another town was using the name of Robin Hood for its airport. The second most common subject of letters was a vague wish that Nottingham Castle was more medeival, and half-baked proposals for how this might be brought about.
FWIW, Robin Hood Airport appears, rather than renaming itself, just to be amassing more and more names - it's official name is now Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. I see no reason why it couldn't tack Ivanhoe on to the end of all that.
The problem is not with people from Nottingham, it is with those who travel to 'Robin Hood' Airport expecting to be anywhere near Nottingham. It has caused genuine problems particularly with a lot of Eastern Europeans who are coming for jobs in the city and who find themselves a £70 taxi ride away.
Wouldn't they be better flying to Nottingham East Midlands if they want to go to Nottingham ?
And Robin Hood airport is closer to Nottinghamshire than any other airport.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
anybody but the perfidious Tories is the way forward GIN
Is Fox going to flounce? After all, surely he basically has no job now?
Maybe, maybe not.
From the Telegraph: Sources said that the new Irish "backstop" will be strictly "time-limited" and make clear that Britain will be free to implement trade deals.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the customs union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
Staying in the single market and keeping free movement and all the rules of the EEA too is which is why both May and Corbyn have committed to leave the single market, so whether the Tories or Labour win the next general election we will definitely leave the single market and end free movement even if both parties are now moving towards staying in the customs union longer term in part to resolve the Irish border issue
The CU is an issue for the 'go global, buccaneering Britain' Leavers such as Boris / Fox / Hannan.
In a way they are the equal but opposite of the EU enthusiasts among Remainers.
' Concentration in this market has now reached absurd levels – the big four are auditors to 97% of FTSE 350 companies. Carillion perfectly illustrated the closed shop in action. KMPG approved the accounts, Deloitte advised the board on risk management, and EY was consulted on turnaround plans. That left the field clear for PwC to name its price as adviser to the Official Receiver. '
With the scratch and sniff porn passes, the embarrasing spectacle of May being all at sea over a customs arrangement and now Grayling on the airwaves announcing another rail screw up I think Labour will be ahead in the polls shortly.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
Corbyn's Brexit position is identical to May's, I can understand you wanting to replace May with Mogg or Boris but Corbyn is now just May's Brexit + Socialism
I am very fond of Nottingham, in many ways, having spent a quarter of my life there. But good grief Nottinghamians can be protective about Robin Hood. At the place I used to work, copies of the Nottingham Evening Post were strewn about the place. I'd say by far the most common subject of letters during the time I was there (first decade of this century) was indignance that another town was using the name of Robin Hood for its airport. The second most common subject of letters was a vague wish that Nottingham Castle was more medeival, and half-baked proposals for how this might be brought about.
FWIW, Robin Hood Airport appears, rather than renaming itself, just to be amassing more and more names - it's official name is now Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. I see no reason why it couldn't tack Ivanhoe on to the end of all that.
The problem is not with people from Nottingham, it is with those who travel to 'Robin Hood' Airport expecting to be anywhere near Nottingham. It has caused genuine problems particularly with a lot of Eastern Europeans who are coming for jobs in the city and who find themselves a £70 taxi ride away.
Wouldn't they be better flying to Nottingham East Midlands if they want to go to Nottingham ?
And Robin Hood airport is closer to Nottinghamshire than any other airport.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the customs union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
Staying in the single market and keeping free movement and all the rules of the EEA too is which is why both May and Corbyn have committed to leave the single market, so whether the Tories or Labour win the next general election we will definitely leave the single market and end free movement even if both parties are now moving towards staying in the customs union longer term in part to resolve the Irish border issue
The CU is an issue for the 'go global, buccaneering Britain' Leavers such as Boris / Fox / Hannan.
In a way they are the equal but opposite of the EU enthusiasts among Remainers.
They're the group that is most likely to have a complete Damascene conversion and start saying we should join the Euro if we can't have a proper Brexit.
My point is that it isn't acceptable on the principle to construct an artificial Jewish homeland by displacing or discriminating against people who live there because of a historical act of murder elsewhere.
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
Again, those are 1948 points. The homeland was constructed several generations ago, and the Jews who now live in Israel, now have the right to be in Israel, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of their great grandparents' generation.
No they are absolutely today's points. The discrimination and displacement continue. The bantustans are the product of Israel's demographic policy.
Edit. To be clear I don't dispute the right of post 1947 Jewish immigrants to be Israeli.
The Jews are not dealing with secular liberals who they are persecuting for no reason other than senseless bigotry.
Two peoples with a claim to the land are competing over it. If the Arabs lose, they still have lots of land. I the Jews lose, they get wiped out.
With the scratch and sniff porn passes, the embarrasing spectacle of May being all at sea over a customs arrangement and now Grayling on the airwaves announcing another rail screw up I think Labour will be ahead in the polls shortly.
Just a note on the events in Gaza. Some official from Hamas reportedly stated that about 50 of the 62 killed were members of Hamas. Somewhat puts a different slant on this if thats verified.
There are blindingly obvious way of dealing with Irish border situation.
1. Checks will happen further up the line, not at the border. 2. The goods that make up most of the South-North exports can be readily categorised (and there are a few biggies that dominate) and agreement reached on commonality, minimising checks whether they stop at Northern Ireland or ship on East. 3. East West ships of Irish goods to the UK can be checked through at the ports, mainly Belfast, who's port management already have stated they have no issues doing whats necessary 4. NI goods to GB carry on as normal 4. This additional processing, to be done which means additional jobs, additional money needing to be spent. Tell the DUP their support means Belfast becomes the East-West gateway and they might buy it.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the customs union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
Staying in the single market and keeping free movement and all the rules of the EEA too is which is why both May and Corbyn have committed to leave the single market, so whether the Tories or Labour win the next general election we will definitely leave the single market and end free movement even if both parties are now moving towards staying in the customs union longer term in part to resolve the Irish border issue
The CU is an issue for the 'go global, buccaneering Britain' Leavers such as Boris / Fox / Hannan.
In a way they are the equal but opposite of the EU enthusiasts among Remainers.
Yes but not the average Leave voter in the North and Midlands for whom greater immigration controls from the EU are far more important
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
Corbyn's Brexit position is identical to May's, I can understand you wanting to replace May with Mogg or Boris but Corbyn is now just May's Brexit + Socialism
Just purely and simply to watch May and the Tories get destroyed.
He proposed that over-65s should use equity release schemes to pay a compulsory "Care Insurance Fee" of around £30,000.
But those with mortgages to get their contribution paid by the taxpayer FFS.
It's utterly ludicrous. I note he had another proposal to charge over 40s more NI too and signalled "no u-turn" on the Tories disastrous 2017 manifesto plans. I bet it wouldn't lead to any reduction in council tax either.
People are not going to accept any of these ideas for extra taxes.
They think National Insurance pays for a welfare state and that's that.
The one thing that should be relatively easy to change is to extend NI to the over 65s and which should have been done when compulsory retirement ages were removed.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the customs union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
Staying in the single market and keeping free movement and all the rules of the EEA too is which is why both May and Corbyn have committed to leave the single market, so whether the Tories or Labour win the next general election we will definitely leave the single market and end free movement even if both parties are now moving towards staying in the customs union longer term in part to resolve the Irish border issue
The CU is an issue for the 'go global, buccaneering Britain' Leavers such as Boris / Fox / Hannan.
In a way they are the equal but opposite of the EU enthusiasts among Remainers.
They're the group that is most likely to have a complete Damascene conversion and start saying we should join the Euro if we can't have a proper Brexit.
Yes but ideological hard Brexiteers are not that different to ideological Euro Federalists, the average voter is neither
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the Customs Union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
The problem is there are enough of those in parliament to cause major issues.
Not enough Tory lapdogs to allow May to get it through and survive. Bring out the tumbrils.
I had to look up 'tumbrils' - do they still use those up in Scotland? It truly is oppressive up there under Tory rule!
Good night to all, may Brexit be sufficiently fudged so that we can at least get through the next few years without going crazy (even if no one is particularly happy).
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
Corbyn's Brexit position is identical to May's, I can understand you wanting to replace May with Mogg or Boris but Corbyn is now just May's Brexit + Socialism
Just purely and simply to watch May and the Tories get destroyed.
It's called revenge.
Which will be all very exciting for you for one night I am sure until the hangover the next day and a Corbyn government taxing and nationalising everything in sight while still pursuing exactly the same Brexit as May anyway
He proposed that over-65s should use equity release schemes to pay a compulsory "Care Insurance Fee" of around £30,000.
But those with mortgages to get their contribution paid by the taxpayer FFS.
It's utterly ludicrous. I note he had another proposal to charge over 40s more NI too and signalled "no u-turn" on the Tories disastrous 2017 manifesto plans. I bet it wouldn't lead to any reduction in council tax either.
People are not going to accept any of these ideas for extra taxes.
They think National Insurance pays for a welfare state and that's that.
The one thing that should be relatively easy to change is to extend NI to the over 65s and which should have been done when compulsory retirement ages were removed.
I'd like to roll up income tax and NI into one personally, but yes extending NI to 65+ would be a simple enough way to raise extra revenue. Not a 30 grand per year charge ffsake, that's ludicrous.
With the scratch and sniff porn passes, the embarrasing spectacle of May being all at sea over a customs arrangement and now Grayling on the airwaves announcing another rail screw up I think Labour will be ahead in the polls shortly.
I thought the Carillion collapse was going to be a big boost to the Corbyn nationalisation agenda.
My point is that it isn't acceptable on the principle to construct an artificial Jewish homeland by displacing or discriminating against people who live there because of a historical act of murder elsewhere.
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
Again, those are 1948 points. The homeland was constructed several generations ago, and the Jews who now live in Israel, now have the right to be in Israel, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of their great grandparents' generation.
No they are absolutely today's points. The discrimination and displacement continue. The bantustans are the product of Israel's demographic policy.
Edit. To be clear I don't dispute the right of post 1947 Jewish immigrants to be Israeli.
The Jews are not dealing with secular liberals who they are persecuting for no reason other than senseless bigotry.
Two peoples with a claim to the land are competing over it. If the Arabs lose, they still have lots of land. I the Jews lose, they get wiped out.
Isn't it a bit harsh to conflate Palestinians with Arabs? You wouldn't like to be described a "white person" or even a "European".
With the scratch and sniff porn passes, the embarrasing spectacle of May being all at sea over a customs arrangement and now Grayling on the airwaves announcing another rail screw up I think Labour will be ahead in the polls shortly.
I thought the Carillion collapse was going to be a big boost to the Corbyn nationalisation agenda.
But it wasn't.
Salaries are going up faster than inflation. There is about to be a World Cup.
Politics is going to take a back seat until September now...
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
Corbyn's Brexit position is identical to May's, I can understand you wanting to replace May with Mogg or Boris but Corbyn is now just May's Brexit + Socialism
Just purely and simply to watch May and the Tories get destroyed.
It's called revenge.
Not sure what the point of revenge is if you expect to get the same outcome perpetrated on you anyway, just by different people. I guess it shows 'them' but who cares about them, you're still the one who will get shafted in the scenario, so what satisfaction is there? Each to their own I guess.
' Concentration in this market has now reached absurd levels – the big four are auditors to 97% of FTSE 350 companies. Carillion perfectly illustrated the closed shop in action. KMPG approved the accounts, Deloitte advised the board on risk management, and EY was consulted on turnaround plans. That left the field clear for PwC to name its price as adviser to the Official Receiver. '
He proposed that over-65s should use equity release schemes to pay a compulsory "Care Insurance Fee" of around £30,000.
But those with mortgages to get their contribution paid by the taxpayer FFS.
It's utterly ludicrous. I note he had another proposal to charge over 40s more NI too and signalled "no u-turn" on the Tories disastrous 2017 manifesto plans. I bet it wouldn't lead to any reduction in council tax either.
People are not going to accept any of these ideas for extra taxes.
They think National Insurance pays for a welfare state and that's that.
The one thing that should be relatively easy to change is to extend NI to the over 65s and which should have been done when compulsory retirement ages were removed.
I'd like to roll up income tax and NI into one personally, but yes extending NI to 65+ would be a simple enough way to raise extra revenue. Not a 30 grand per year charge ffsake, that's ludicrous.
I'd prefer ensuring NI increases are focused on extra cash for the NHS and social care, including I agree extending it to over 65s
Off topic, looking up 'tumbril' also led to a page on the 'common scold'
In the common law of crime in England and Wales, a common scold was a type of public nuisance—a troublesome and angry person who broke the public peace by habitually chastising, arguing and quarrelling with their neighbours
Shit, we're all in trouble if that one is still a crime.
Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
Staying in the customs union beyond the original transition period coming to an end is not a major problem I think for most Leave voters beyond the most ideological.
Staying in the single market and keeping free movement and all the rules of the EEA too is which is why both May and Corbyn have committed to leave the single market, so whether the Tories or Labour win the next general election we will definitely leave the single market and end free movement even if both parties are now moving towards staying in the customs union longer term in part to resolve the Irish border issue
The CU is an issue for the 'go global, buccaneering Britain' Leavers such as Boris / Fox / Hannan.
In a way they are the equal but opposite of the EU enthusiasts among Remainers.
They're the group that is most likely to have a complete Damascene conversion and start saying we should join the Euro if we can't have a proper Brexit.
There are blindingly obvious way of dealing with Irish border situation.
1. Checks will happen further up the line, not at the border.
Push the line out to the sea and Bob's your uncle.
They can do it at Belfast port without breaking sweat. My understanding is the port authority have pretty much got all their scenario planning done and dusted. Too much symbolism going on and not enough practicality.
Sad to see Thornberry join the far left, Putin-stooges.
It's quite a propaganda feat for Russia to have simultaneously seduced far-right stooges around the world while keeping their traditional cohort of far-left ones on board.
I suppose the fact that most of them are incredibly ignorant about Russia helps.
So is being a Moscow stooge worse than being a Brussels stooge?
Moscow is (currently) a hostile foreign power. Brussels is us.
And I speak as a Russophile who regrets the current schism.
Genuine question: what is it about Russia that you like?
Language, culture, history, people. Moscow is one of the most inspiring cities in the world and the country itself is a vast melting pot.
BA236
? It appears to be a passenger aircraft that is scheduled to leave Moscow for London at 0540 local time tomorrow morning. Am I missing something?
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
My point is that it isn't acceptable on the principle to construct an artificial Jewish homeland by displacing or discriminating against people who live there because of a historical act of murder elsewhere.
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
Again, those are 1948 points. The homeland was constructed several generations ago, and the Jews who now live in Israel, now have the right to be in Israel, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of their great grandparents' generation.
No they are absolutely today's points. The discrimination and displacement continue. The bantustans are the product of Israel's demographic policy.
Edit. To be clear I don't dispute the right of post 1947 Jewish immigrants to be Israeli.
The Jews are not dealing with secular liberals who they are persecuting for no reason other than senseless bigotry.
Two peoples with a claim to the land are competing over it. If the Arabs lose, they still have lots of land. I the Jews lose, they get wiped out.
Isn't it a bit harsh to conflate Palestinians with Arabs? You wouldn't like to be described a "white person" or even a "European".
I am very fond of Nottingham, in many ways, having spent a quarter of my life there. But good grief Nottinghamians can be protective about Robin Hood. At the place I used to work, copies of the Nottingham Evening Post were strewn about the place. I'd say by far the most common subject of letters during the time I was there (first decade of this century) was indignance that another town was using the name of Robin Hood for its airport. The second most common subject of letters was a vague wish that Nottingham Castle was more medeival, and half-baked proposals for how this might be brought about.
FWIW, Robin Hood Airport appears, rather than renaming itself, just to be amassing more and more names - it's official name is now Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. I see no reason why it couldn't tack Ivanhoe on to the end of all that.
The problem is not with people from Nottingham, it is with those who travel to 'Robin Hood' Airport expecting to be anywhere near Nottingham. It has caused genuine problems particularly with a lot of Eastern Europeans who are coming for jobs in the city and who find themselves a £70 taxi ride away.
Wouldn't they be better flying to Nottingham East Midlands if they want to go to Nottingham ?
And Robin Hood airport is closer to Nottinghamshire than any other airport.
What Nottingham East Midlands Airport? As I wrote in the OP, it was forced to drop the formerly added Nottingham bit from its name after Derby and Leicester councils complained (even though it made good business sense to retain it). It might still be known as Nottingham airport at least abroad, dunno.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
To demolish the establishment and everybody's wealth and savings at the same time!
If you think a Tory loss will lead to Mogg taking over as Leader of the Opposition and waltzing to a landslide victory at the next general election over Corbyn on a hard Brexit platform (which is the hard Brexiteer wet dream) I think you are being a bit over optimistic
LOL , out but in and paying big bucks for the privilege. Little Englanders will be peeing their union jack underpants. They will be vassals of the EU and no vote whatsoever.
It's Corbyn for me from now on Malc.
#ToriesOut
If so, you're being silly.
I gave them my instructions.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
Brexit has to be a process. You have to make compromises along the way to achieve the end goal.
It is increasingly clear that hard Brexiteers are the mirror image of Corbynistas, it is their way or the high way!
Comments
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/16/future-conservative-party-revealed/
I am always puzzled how in a city with 2 teams, one of them can be called 'United'.
Likewise Sheffield. And Dundee.
Not that justifies the treatment of the Ppalestinians, but Israel is not the worst country in a bad neighbourhood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanhoe_line
Berwick to Edinburgh and on to Leuchars
Glasgow to Edinburgh via Falkirk
Glasgow to Edinburgh via Airdrie
Glasgow to Ayr
Glasgow to Balloch
Carlisle to Glasgow via Motherwell
Glasgow Subway
Edinburgh Tram
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/16/pensioners-properties-without-mortgages-should-draw-money-fund/
He proposed that over-65s should use equity release schemes to pay a compulsory "Care Insurance Fee" of around £30,000.
The second most common subject of letters was a vague wish that Nottingham Castle was more medeival, and half-baked proposals for how this might be brought about.
FWIW, Robin Hood Airport appears, rather than renaming itself, just to be amassing more and more names - it's official name is now Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. I see no reason why it couldn't tack Ivanhoe on to the end of all that.
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/996859614472876033
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/996861258740662272
Our obligations to the victims are to remember them and to tell the truth about what happened.
"We have gone from a clear end point, to an extension, to a proposed further extension with no end point. The horizon seems to be unreachable. The bottom of the rainbow seems to be unattainable. People voted to leave, they did not vote for a perpetual purgatory.""
There seem to me to be some rather striking implied admissions in that. The end of the rainbow doesn't just look unattainable, it actually is unattainable. that's the whole point.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/16/britain-will-tell-eu-prepared-stay-tied-customs-union-beyond/
I wonder when the inevitable climbdown on the single market will happen?
I bet it wouldn't lead to any reduction in council tax either.
Edit. To be clear I don't dispute the right of post 1947 Jewish immigrants to be Israeli.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doncaster_Sheffield_Airport
Staying in the single market and keeping free movement and all the rules of the EEA too is which is why both May and Corbyn have committed to leave the single market, so whether the Tories or Labour win the next general election we will definitely leave the single market and end free movement even if both parties are now moving towards staying in the customs union longer term in part to resolve the Irish border issue
But at least the Cabinet has at least made a decision at least, regardless of whether it will work!
As of tonight May and Corbyn's Brexit position is almost identical, implement Brexit, leave the single market and end free movement but have a transition period and stay in the customs union longer term.
Both are now closer to each other on Brexit than Corbyn is to Labour pro single market diehard Remainers and May is to Tory anti customs union hardline Brexiteers
#ToriesOut
And Robin Hood airport is closer to Nottinghamshire than any other airport.
After all, surely he basically has no job now?
From the Telegraph:
Sources said that the new Irish "backstop" will be strictly "time-limited" and make clear that Britain will be free to implement trade deals.
In a way they are the equal but opposite of the EU enthusiasts among Remainers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doncaster_Sheffield_Airport
Two peoples with a claim to the land are competing over it. If the Arabs lose, they still have lots of land. I the Jews lose, they get wiped out.
There are blindingly obvious way of dealing with Irish border situation.
1. Checks will happen further up the line, not at the border.
2. The goods that make up most of the South-North exports can be readily categorised (and there are a few biggies that dominate) and agreement reached on commonality, minimising checks whether they stop at Northern Ireland or ship on East.
3. East West ships of Irish goods to the UK can be checked through at the ports, mainly Belfast, who's port management already have stated they have no issues doing whats necessary
4. NI goods to GB carry on as normal
4. This additional processing, to be done which means additional jobs, additional money needing to be spent. Tell the DUP their support means Belfast becomes the East-West gateway and they might buy it.
It's called revenge.
They think National Insurance pays for a welfare state and that's that.
The one thing that should be relatively easy to change is to extend NI to the over 65s and which should have been done when compulsory retirement ages were removed.
Good night to all, may Brexit be sufficiently fudged so that we can at least get through the next few years without going crazy (even if no one is particularly happy).
But it wasn't.
Politics is going to take a back seat until September now...
Or was that Alan Stanford ?
In the common law of crime in England and Wales, a common scold was a type of public nuisance—a troublesome and angry person who broke the public peace by habitually chastising, arguing and quarrelling with their neighbours
Shit, we're all in trouble if that one is still a crime.
For the past two years they have been doing absolutely everything they can to frustrate that instruction... And now we arrive at the point where they are keeping us trapped in the Customs Union forever more - Making the entire point of leaving the EU well... Pointless.
Frankly it would be far better to call the whole thing off now (the initial national shame and humiliation of withdrawing A50 will pale into insignificance compared to the UK having to remain part of the CU for infinity with absolutely no input in the rules that will be forced upon us year after year after year)
But once A50 is withdrawn many of us who have had their votes betrayed will take revenge and that revenge will be getting Corbyn in to Downing Street to demolish the establishment (and everything else) as only he can...
https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/996852588887801856
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/voters/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
NSFW, mind!
If you think a Tory loss will lead to Mogg taking over as Leader of the Opposition and waltzing to a landslide victory at the next general election over Corbyn on a hard Brexit platform (which is the hard Brexiteer wet dream) I think you are being a bit over optimistic
Comparing any Jew to a Nazi is completely out of order.
Israel has no policy of rounding up Palestinians and exterminating them.
Comparing Israel to Nazis is comparing Jews to genocidal maniacs.