I don't know if people say the Conservatives are some kind of anti racist party for propaganda purposes or to convince themselves but there is a reason not being white is a factor in not voting Conservatives. White men shouting that Labour are the racist party isn't going to trick them into thinking differently about the Conservatives.
Not sure anyone is calling or has called the Labour Party racist.
Some have called it the jew hating party or several other variations, they happily ignore the stuff that comes from the Conservative party though.
I don't think either party is racist, evidence showed that anti semitism was actually a bigger problem in the Conservative party than the Labour party, I think for other forms such as Islamophobia and hating Black people and such the Labour party would score a lot less than the Tory party.
I don't think either party is racist but I would say the Conservative party would have the more racist attitudes though.
___________________________________________________ The research was carried by the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA), who commissioned in-depth YouGov polling into the subject of anti-Semitism in Britain. ___________________________________________________
Conservatives who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 40% Labour who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 32%
I don't know if people say the Conservatives are some kind of anti racist party for propaganda purposes or to convince themselves but there is a reason not being white is a factor in not voting Conservatives. White men shouting that Labour are the racist party isn't going to trick them into thinking differently about the Conservatives.
Not sure anyone is calling or has called the Labour Party racist.
Some have called it the jew hating party or several other variations, they happily ignore the stuff that comes from the Conservative party though.
I don't think either party is racist, evidence showed that anti semitism was actually a bigger problem in the Conservative party than the Labour party, I think for other forms such as Islamophobia and hating Black people and such the Labour party would score a lot less than the Tory party.
I don't think either party is racist but I would say the Conservative party would have the more racist attitudes though.
___________________________________________________ The research was carried by the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA), who commissioned in-depth YouGov polling into the subject of anti-Semitism in Britain. ___________________________________________________
Conservatives who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 40% Labour who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 32%
However, 83% of Jewish people surveyed said that they thought Labour were too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters.
Also:
The data in this report begs the question: if British society can fight antisemitism, why are our world-renowned criminal justice system and some of our famous political parties still doing too little? Our research clearly shows that British Jews have pointed their fingers at the Crown Prosecution Service and the Labour Party.
That doesn't change that fact that Tories are more anti semitic. Which was the point I made and was asked to prove. The fact people are less bothered about it is interesting but a slightly different discussion.
I don't know if people say the Conservatives are some kind of anti racist party for propaganda purposes or to convince themselves but there is a reason not being white is a factor in not voting Conservatives. White men shouting that Labour are the racist party isn't going to trick them into thinking differently about the Conservatives.
Not sure anyone is calling or has called the Labour Party racist.
I don't think either party is racist but I would say the Conservative party would have the more racist attitudes though.
___________________________________________________ The research was carried by the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA), who commissioned in-depth YouGov polling into the subject of anti-Semitism in Britain. ___________________________________________________
Conservatives who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 40% Labour who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 32%
However, 83% of Jewish people surveyed said that they thought Labour were too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters.
Also:
The data in this report begs the question: if British society can fight antisemitism, why are our world-renowned criminal justice system and some of our famous political parties still doing too little? Our research clearly shows that British Jews have pointed their fingers at the Crown Prosecution Service and the Labour Party.
That doesn't change that fact that Tories are more anti semitic. Which was the point I made and was asked to prove. The fact people are less bothered about it is interesting but a slightly different discussion.
Why do you think British Jews think:
Do you feel that any political parties are too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters?” Labour: 83 Conservative: 19 Lib Dem: 36 UKIP: 41
Older voters and men tend to have more anti-semitic views than younger voters and women. Tories tend to be older voters and men. And there isn't such a big gap -
Did Not endorse any anti-semitic statements: Con: 60% Lab: 68%
The issue is not Labour (or Tory) voters - but Parties - and on this British Jews have no doubts.
I don't know if people say the Conservatives are some kind of anti racist party for propaganda purposes or to convince themselves but there is a reason not being white is a factor in not voting Conservatives. White men shouting that Labour are the racist party isn't going to trick them into thinking differently about the Conservatives.
Not sure anyone is calling or has called the Labour Party racist.
Some have called it the jew hating party or several other variations, they happily ignore the stuff that comes from the Conservative party though.
I don't think either party is racist, evidence showed that anti semitism was actually a bigger problem in the Conservative party than the Labour party, I think for other forms such as Islamophobia and hating Black people and such the Labour party would score a lot less than the Tory party.
I don't think either party is racist but I would say the Conservative party would have the more racist attitudes though.
___________________________________________________ The research was carried by the Campaign Against Antisemitism (CAA), who commissioned in-depth YouGov polling into the subject of anti-Semitism in Britain. ___________________________________________________
Conservatives who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 40% Labour who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 32%
You've repeated those statistics in a few different ways but I am not really sure how any of it actually argues with my original point. Tory voters are more anti-semitic than Labour voters, the report, you have linked to twice now, repeats exactly the same statistics as I wrote out here.
Conservatives who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 40% Labour who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 32%
I can understand why a Conservative would want to ignore the actual racism and point out that people are more bothered about it in Labour but it doesn't change the fact it is more prevalent in the Conservatives. I guess it isn't a problem the Conservatives are bothered about, much better to point score with it.
Edit: I'm not sure pointing out that the more racist groups are old people and men and Tories are more often old people and men is some great counter argument...
The fact the Tories are more racist because they fish in more racist pools of voters isn't something I would disagree with, I'm not sure it helps your argument though?
You've repeated those statistics in a few different ways but I am not really sure how any of it actually argues with my original point. Tory voters are more anti-semitic than Labour voters, the report, you have linked to twice now, repeats exactly the same statistics as I wrote out here.
Conservatives who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 40% Labour who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 32%
I can understand why a Conservative would want to ignore the actual racism and point out that people are more bothered about it in Labour but it doesn't change the fact it is more prevalent in the Conservatives. I guess it isn't a problem the Conservatives are bothered about, much better to point score with it.
Edit: I'm not sure pointing out that the more racist groups are old people and men and Tories are more often old people and men is some great counter argument...
The fact the Tories are more racist because they fish in more racist pools of voters isn't something I would disagree with, I'm not sure it helps your argument though?
We were arguing about Parties - you know - the thing Party Leaders are Responsible for
Neither May nor Corbyn are directly responsible for who votes for them. They are directly responsible for the internal discipline within their party and the atmosphere within the party.
Why do you think 83% of British Jews think the Labour Party is too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters, while the comparable number for the Conservatives is 19%?
The quote the original report, not the Labour spun version you posted:
Labour Party supporters are less likely to be antisemitic than other voters, so the cause of British Jews’ discontentment with the Labour Party must be the way that it has very publicly failed to robustly deal with the antisemites in its ranks. This means that the Labour Party has fallen out of step with its core supporters, who are generally less likely to hold antisemitic beliefs.
You've repeated those statistics in a few different ways but I am not really sure how any of it actually argues with my original point. Tory voters are more anti-semitic than Labour voters, the report, you have linked to twice now, repeats exactly the same statistics as I wrote out here.
Conservatives who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 40% Labour who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 32%
I can understand why a Conservative would want to ignore the actual racism and point out that people are more bothered about it in Labour but it doesn't change the fact it is more prevalent in the Conservatives. I guess it isn't a problem the Conservatives are bothered about, much better to point score with it.
Edit: I'm not sure pointing out that the more racist groups are old people and men and Tories are more often old people and men is some great counter argument...
The fact the Tories are more racist because they fish in more racist pools of voters isn't something I would disagree with, I'm not sure it helps your argument though?
We were arguing about Parties - you know - the thing Party Leaders are Responsible for
Neither May nor Corbyn are directly responsible for who votes for them. They are directly responsible for the internal discipline within their party and the atmosphere within the party.
Why do you think 83% of British Jews think the Labour Party is too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters, while the comparable number for the Conservatives is 19%?
The quote the original report, not the Labour spun version you posted:
Labour Party supporters are less likely to be antisemitic than other voters, so the cause of British Jews’ discontentment with the Labour Party must be the way that it has very publicly failed to robustly deal with the antisemites in its ranks. This means that the Labour Party has fallen out of step with its core supporters, who are generally less likely to hold antisemitic beliefs.
You disagreed with my statement, that is how we went on off on this little chain.
I was talking about voters, if you are not you are clearly arguing a different point.
But yes I can fully understand why the Conservatives wouldn't care about anti-semitic Conservatives and would rather keep that quiet and use anti-semitism to point score.
Edit: Also the statistics I posted are exactly the same as in the report. I realise that is distressing but regardless of where you source the exact same figures they maintain their accuracy.
Stephen Fisher (written before all the results were announced):
Opposition parties normally win local elections. Since records began, albeit only since 1982, the oppositions that have gone on to win the next general election have won double digit leads in all the preceding local elections, starting with those in the immediate post-election year. Not only is Labour far from having a 10-point lead, the fact that it has no lead at all should be deeply disappointing.
Some Labour supporters may comfort themselves with the observation that the 11 point Tory lead in the PNS at last year’s local elections collapsed within the space of a month to a 2.5 point general election lead. That experience was a salutary lesson that public opinion can change dramatically. But that does not mean that we should expect the Conservatives to run a similarly disastrous campaign in the future.
While Labour did poorly, the Conservatives cannot rest easy. Their performance does not indicate that they would most likely regain their majority at the next general election.
You've repeated those statistics in a few different ways but I am not really sure how any of it actually argues with my original point. Tory voters are more anti-semitic than Labour voters, the report, you have linked to twice now, repeats exactly the same statistics as I wrote out here.
Conservatives who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 40% Labour who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 32%
I can understand why a Conservative would want to ignore the actual racism and point out that people are more bothered about it in Labour but it doesn't change the fact it is more prevalent in the Conservatives. I guess it isn't a problem the Conservatives are bothered about, much better to point score with it.
Edit: I'm not sure pointing out that the more racist groups are old people and men and Tories are more often old people and men is some great counter argument...
The fact the Tories are more racist because they fish in more racist pools of voters isn't something I would disagree with, I'm not sure it helps your argument though?
We were arguing about Parties - you know - the thing Party Leaders are Responsible for
Neither May nor Corbyn are directly responsible for who votes for them. They are directly responsible for the internal discipline within their party and the atmosphere within the party.
Why do you think 83% of British Jews think the Labour Party is too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters, while the comparable number for the Conservatives is 19%?
The quote the original report, not the Labour spun version you posted:
Labour Party supporters are less likely to be antisemitic than other voters, so the cause of British Jews’ discontentment with the Labour Party must be the way that it has very publicly failed to robustly deal with the antisemites in its ranks. This means that the Labour Party has fallen out of step with its core supporters, who are generally less likely to hold antisemitic beliefs.
You disagreed with my statement, that is how we went on off on this little chain.
I was talking about voters, if you are not you are clearly arguing a different point.
But yes I can fully understand why the Conservatives wouldn't care about anti-semitic Conservatives and would rather keep that quiet and use anti-semitism to point score.
Why do you think 83% of British Jews think the Labour Party is too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters, while the comparable number for the Conservatives is 19%?
We were arguing about Parties - you know - the thing Party Leaders are Responsible for
Neither May nor Corbyn are directly responsible for who votes for them. They are directly responsible for the internal discipline within their party and the atmosphere within the party.
Why do you think 83% of British Jews think the Labour Party is too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters, while the comparable number for the Conservatives is 19%?
The quote the original report, not the Labour spun version you posted:
Labour Party supporters are less likely to be antisemitic than other voters, so the cause of British Jews’ discontentment with the Labour Party must be the way that it has very publicly failed to robustly deal with the antisemites in its ranks. This means that the Labour Party has fallen out of step with its core supporters, who are generally less likely to hold antisemitic beliefs.
You disagreed with my statement, that is how we went on off on this little chain.
I was talking about voters, if you are not you are clearly arguing a different point.
But yes I can fully understand why the Conservatives wouldn't care about anti-semitic Conservatives and would rather keep that quiet and use anti-semitism to point score.
Why do you think 83% of British Jews think the Labour Party is too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters, while the comparable number for the Conservatives is 19%?
I'm not sure why they are less bothered by the greater levels of anti-semitism in the Conservative party, it is too big a group to judge with blanket statements I imagine.
I could take a guess why Trump fan Jonathan Arkush might feel that way if we want to talk about individuals.
Progressive/Marxist Alliance of Labour, LD, SNP and Greens with Corbyn as PM opposed by Tories still largest party led by hard Brexiteer Leader of the Opposition Jacob Rees Mogg and allied with the DUP?
While the stench of Jew hate racism hangs over Corbyn's LAB the LDs won't go near them. I doubt if the SNP will either
Given a choice between making Rees-Mogg PM or Corbyn PM who do you think the LDs would choose? In that case I think they would prop up Corbyn, if May still remains Tory leader they may give her confidence and supply while Corbyn is the alternative.
Most unlikely the LDs would lift a finger to prop up the Tories. Post Coalition they will be desperate to restore some credibility with centre-left voters. The 'Tories' Little Helpers' label continues to haunt them.
Yes but most centre-left voters are now voting for Corbyn, much of the LDs current support comes from centrists, Remainers and NIMBYS in SW London and the Home Counties who are deeply suspicious of Corbyn
But also deeply suspicious of May, Mogg, and Tory Brexiteers.
Mogg and hard Brexiteers maybe, May less so
No way. Not without a much softer Brexit involving CU and SM. If May agreed to that and a third in/out referendum, then possibly, but she wouldn't last the week with her own party.
May is still committed to a customs partnership and even Cable has said something needs to be done to control free movement. Remember, the choice is May or Corbyn, not May or say Chuka Umunna in this scenario
The choice for LDs is to support neither.
But surely as a fan of Corbyn you'd be encouraging the party to back him?
Comments
Do you feel that any political parties are too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters?”
Labour: 83
Conservative: 19
Lib Dem: 36
UKIP: 41
Older voters and men tend to have more anti-semitic views than younger voters and women. Tories tend to be older voters and men. And there isn't such a big gap -
Did Not endorse any anti-semitic statements:
Con: 60%
Lab: 68%
The issue is not Labour (or Tory) voters - but Parties - and on this British Jews have no doubts.
https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf
Not the Labour spun version!
You've repeated those statistics in a few different ways but I am not really sure how any of it actually argues with my original point. Tory voters are more anti-semitic than Labour voters, the report, you have linked to twice now, repeats exactly the same statistics as I wrote out here.
Conservatives who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 40%
Labour who endorsed one anti-semitic statement 32%
I can understand why a Conservative would want to ignore the actual racism and point out that people are more bothered about it in Labour but it doesn't change the fact it is more prevalent in the Conservatives. I guess it isn't a problem the Conservatives are bothered about, much better to point score with it.
Edit: I'm not sure pointing out that the more racist groups are old people and men and Tories are more often old people and men is some great counter argument...
The fact the Tories are more racist because they fish in more racist pools of voters isn't something I would disagree with, I'm not sure it helps your argument though?
Neither May nor Corbyn are directly responsible for who votes for them. They are directly responsible for the internal discipline within their party and the atmosphere within the party.
Why do you think 83% of British Jews think the Labour Party is too tolerant of antisemitism among their MPs, members and supporters, while the comparable number for the Conservatives is 19%?
The quote the original report, not the Labour spun version you posted:
Labour Party supporters are less likely to be antisemitic than other voters, so the cause of British Jews’ discontentment with the Labour Party must be the way that it has very publicly failed to robustly deal with the antisemites in its ranks. This means that the Labour Party has fallen out of step with its core supporters, who are generally less likely to hold antisemitic beliefs.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/04/trump-nra-london-hospital-knives
I was talking about voters, if you are not you are clearly arguing a different point.
But yes I can fully understand why the Conservatives wouldn't care about anti-semitic Conservatives and would rather keep that quiet and use anti-semitism to point score.
Edit: Also the statistics I posted are exactly the same as in the report. I realise that is distressing but regardless of where you source the exact same figures they maintain their accuracy.
Opposition parties normally win local elections. Since records began, albeit only since 1982, the oppositions that have gone on to win the next general election have won double digit leads in all the preceding local elections, starting with those in the immediate post-election year. Not only is Labour far from having a 10-point lead, the fact that it has no lead at all should be deeply disappointing.
Some Labour supporters may comfort themselves with the observation that the 11 point Tory lead in the PNS at last year’s local elections collapsed within the space of a month to a 2.5 point general election lead. That experience was a salutary lesson that public opinion can change dramatically. But that does not mean that we should expect the Conservatives to run a similarly disastrous campaign in the future.
While Labour did poorly, the Conservatives cannot rest easy. Their performance does not indicate that they would most likely regain their majority at the next general election.
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/local-elections-the-key-numbers-crunched
I could take a guess why Trump fan Jonathan Arkush might feel that way if we want to talk about individuals.
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSjtBkdMM1U