Arizona's Eighth District contains a community called Sun City West which probably tells you all you need to know.
On a related. election fever warms up in Newham - Labour have put round their first leaflet in my Ward which includes a leaflet for Councillor Fiaz, the Labour candidate for Mayor.
On Friday we had the booklet with the election addresses (or what passes for them) from the five runners in the 2018 renewal of the Newham Mayoral Handicap open to 3-y-o of all ages.
The long odds-on favourite is the aforementioned Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz who defeated Sir Robin Wales 861-503 in the Labour selection contest. She has eight core messages including a pledge to build 1000 new Council homes by 2022 which will be let at social rent levels. Given 45% of Newham's population lives in private rented accommodation it's a policy she thinks will resonate in an era of multi-occupancy dwellings. The rest of it is basically platitudes.
Second favourite is Rahima Khan, the Conservative candidate who has achived zero visibility since her selection last summer. She also talks about affordable social housing and apparently will curb developers marketing and selling homes to foreign investors (how?). Another policy is free breakfasts for primary school children (fair enough but presumably not from the greasy spoon in the Barking Road) and a mandatory 12 hours per week of sport for secondary school pupils (does she have the power to introduce this ?)
To the also-rans or the not-likely-to-get-off the starting blocks candidates - Chishala Kumalinga represents the Christian People's Alliance (CPA). A few years back Alan Craig and the CPA were the Opposition on Newham Council from their power base in Canning Town but that got swept away last time. Her flagship policy is to provide a night shelter and a free meal to anyone sleeping rough (sounds nice).
Daniel Oxley is standing for the Democrats & Veterans Party and for those who keep a close eye on such things, he was the UKIP candidate for East Ham at the 2017 GE. I wonder how many ex-UKIP people have joined this new grouping which seems to want to promote "British values" to achieve social cohesion (hmm). He supports PR (tick) but believes in Direct Democracy (whatever that means) where 20% of the registered electors can trigger a referendum on an issue.
Finally, Gareth Evans is the LD candidate. His main message is to set up a Violence Reduction Unit bringing together several agencies on the model of what has been adopted in Glasgow (no bad thing). He also wants to improve street cleaning (the problem isn't the cleaners, it's the residents dumping rubbish and fly-tipping).
So, there we have it. Not much to inspire if I'm being honest - nuggets of ideas which could work but in larger seas of platitudes or policies that are either beyond the Mayor's power or potentially illegal.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
I called that earlier on this year*
If Theresa May keeps us in the customs union I'll do regularly threads saying she's the greatest Tory of her generation, even better than Dave and George.
The logical end game will be not to offer a referendum on a customs union, but to say in a few years time, well since we're in the customs union we might as well rejoin the single market.
Rejoining the single market and its restraint on state intervention will look brilliant after 5 years of PM Corbyn.
My only regret over voting leave. Corbyn outside of the single market could really mess things up with the economy.
If Corbyn becomes PM whether we are in or out of the Single Market will be the least of our problems.
Mass nationalisation is just not possible within the single market. If a government wants to run a public service/utility etc that’s fine. But the public body has to bid for the rights/franchise/license like anyone else. It has to wash it’s own face. Government subsidy won’t exist to keep an inefficient public company in business, the subsidy will be separate to the franchise agreement and will be open to all competitors.
Corbyn can plan to renationalise the railways of he wants to, but he better make sure that the government backed companies bidding for the franchises put in a better offer than any other company from across the EU. Or it’s off to the Court of Justice for you.
I don't think Corbyn is the most committed Europhile somehow. We are in strange times when the ideological right and the ideological left seem so close together to stuff the status quo....
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
I called that earlier on this year*
If Theresa May keeps us in the customs union I'll do regularly threads saying she's the greatest Tory of her generation, even better than Dave and George.
The logical end game will be not to offer a referendum on a customs union, but to say in a few years time, well since we're in the customs union we might as well rejoin the single market.
Rejoining the single market and its restraint on state intervention will look brilliant after 5 years of PM Corbyn.
That won't be the end game. The end game will be to apply to rejoin the EU.
The ultras know that if we do leave both the single market and customs union the UK will move on, and there will never be any going back.
The revolution was doomed when the revolutionaries left the ancien regime in power, its functionaries in work, and its institutions unreformed.
I fear that Brexiteers won the war but will lose the peace, and consequently the war will have been for nothing.
Who knows?
A lot of twists and turns to come yet. But, I have been anticipating serious trouble in the Lords for months.
I don’t think the Lords matters much when there is no Commons majority for the Government’s negotiating stance.
Are you still 100% in favour of Brexit if the government concedes a customs union that means someone else decides our trade policy?
I ask because I’m no longer sure myself.
The Government has, so far, got all of its main Brexit legislation past the Commons unamended.
On the second, I'm not sure. It would depend on the overall package. But, even if I wasn't, it wouldn't make me any more favourably disposed towards the EU, which I'd continue to have no confidence in and politically oppose.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
I called that earlier on this year*
If Theresa May keeps us in the customs union I'll do regularly threads saying she's the greatest Tory of her generation, even better than Dave and George.
The logical end game will be not to offer a referendum on a customs union, but to say in a few years time, well since we're in the customs union we might as well rejoin the single market.
Rejoining the single market and its restraint on state intervention will look brilliant after 5 years of PM Corbyn.
That won't be the end game. The end game will be to apply to rejoin the EU.
The ultras know that if we do leave both the single market and customs union the UK will move on, and there will never be any going back.
The revolution was doomed when the revolutionaries left the ancien regime in power, its functionaries in work, and its institutions unreformed.
I fear that Brexiteers won the war but will lose the peace, and consequently the war will have been for nothing.
What was the point of it all if there is a blocking majority in both houses? It shouldn't come as a great surprise to those Brexiters with some knowledge of how our Parliamentary democracy works.
Are you saying that when the Lords agreed to the referendum, they always intended to block it, if they didn't get the 'right' result?
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
I called that earlier on this year*
If Theresa May keeps us in the customs union I'll do regularly threads saying she's the greatest Tory of her generation, even better than Dave and George.
The logical end game will be not to offer a referendum on a customs union, but to say in a few years time, well since we're in the customs union we might as well rejoin the single market.
Rejoining the single market and its restraint on state intervention will look brilliant after 5 years of PM Corbyn.
That won't be the end game. The end game will be to apply to rejoin the EU.
The ultras know that if we do leave both the single market and customs union the UK will move on, and there will never be any going back.
The revolution was doomed when the revolutionaries left the ancien regime in power, its functionaries in work, and its institutions unreformed.
I fear that Brexiteers won the war but will lose the peace, and consequently the war will have been for nothing.
If that's the way it ends then you could argue that a combination of Michael Gove and Andrea Leadsom were the key players that prevented Brexit. Between them they ensured that a Remainer became Prime Minister.
Psychologically a soft Remainer like May will always be more likely to compromise than a Brexiteer.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
I called that earlier on this year*
If Theresa May keeps us in the customs union I'll do regularly threads saying she's the greatest Tory of her generation, even better than Dave and George.
The logical end game will be not to offer a referendum on a customs union, but to say in a few years time, well since we're in the customs union we might as well rejoin the single market.
Rejoining the single market and its restraint on state intervention will look brilliant after 5 years of PM Corbyn.
That won't be the end game. The end game will be to apply to rejoin the EU.
The ultras know that if we do leave both the single market and customs union the UK will move on, and there will never be any going back.
The revolution was doomed when the revolutionaries left the ancien regime in power, its functionaries in work, and its institutions unreformed.
I fear that Brexiteers won the war but will lose the peace, and consequently the war will have been for nothing.
Who knows?
A lot of twists and turns to come yet. But, I have been anticipating serious trouble in the Lords for months.
I don’t think the Lords matters much when there is no Commons majority for the Government’s negotiating stance.
Are you still 100% in favour of Brexit if the government concedes a customs union that means someone else decides our trade policy?
I ask because I’m no longer sure myself.
The Government has, so far, got all of its main Brexit legislation past the Commons unamended.
On the second, I'm not sure. It would depend on the overall package. But, even if I wasn't, it wouldn't make me any more favourably disposed towards the EU, which I'd continue to have no confidence in and politically oppose.
I could live with the Single Market if we ended the madness of a non-contributory welfare state and health service, but it’s difficult to see a catalyst for that.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
The Government has, so far, got all of its main Brexit legislation past the Commons unamended.
On the second, I'm not sure. It would depend on the overall package. But, even if I wasn't, it wouldn't make me any more favourably disposed towards the EU, which I'd continue to have no confidence in and politically oppose.
I would be disappointed if we remained in the CU as it would effectively kill any notion of "Global Britain" and wreck our chances of becoming genuinely open for business.
I realise a CU would be "easier" for everyone but I hoped we had decided to leave the EU in order to set a new direction for the 2020s and beyond. Staying tied to the EU through the CU sounds a weak compromise.
Obviously, I could be wrong and the CU is off the agenda but there are some worrying signals growing.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
I called that earlier on this year*
If Theresa May keeps us in the customs union I'll do regularly threads saying she's the greatest Tory of her generation, even better than Dave and George.
The logical end game will be not to offer a referendum on a customs union, but to say in a few years time, well since we're in the customs union we might as well rejoin the single market.
Rejoining the single market and its restraint on state intervention will look brilliant after 5 years of PM Corbyn.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
On Friday we had the booklet with the election addresses (or what passes for them) from the five runners in the 2018 renewal of the Newham Mayoral Handicap open to 3-y-o of all ages.
The long odds-on favourite is the aforementioned Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz who defeated Sir Robin Wales 861-503 in the Labour selection contest. She has eight core messages including a pledge to build 1000 new Council homes by 2022 which will be let at social rent levels. Given 45% of Newham's population lives in private rented accommodation it's a policy she thinks will resonate in an era of multi-occupancy dwellings. The rest of it is basically platitudes.
Second favourite is Rahima Khan, the Conservative candidate who has achived zero visibility since her selection last summer. She also talks about affordable social housing and apparently will curb developers marketing and selling homes to foreign investors (how?). Another policy is free breakfasts for primary school children (fair enough but presumably not from the greasy spoon in the Barking Road) and a mandatory 12 hours per week of sport for secondary school pupils (does she have the power to introduce this ?)
To the also-rans or the not-likely-to-get-off the starting blocks candidates - Chishala Kumalinga represents the Christian People's Alliance (CPA). A few years back Alan Craig and the CPA were the Opposition on Newham Council from their power base in Canning Town but that got swept away last time. Her flagship policy is to provide a night shelter and a free meal to anyone sleeping rough (sounds nice).
Daniel Oxley is standing for the Democrats & Veterans Party and for those who keep a close eye on such things, he was the UKIP candidate for East Ham at the 2017 GE. I wonder how many ex-UKIP people have joined this new grouping which seems to want to promote "British values" to achieve social cohesion (hmm). He supports PR (tick) but believes in Direct Democracy (whatever that means) where 20% of the registered electors can trigger a referendum on an issue.
Finally, Gareth Evans is the LD candidate. His main message is to set up a Violence Reduction Unit bringing together several agencies on the model of what has been adopted in Glasgow (no bad thing). He also wants to improve street cleaning (the problem isn't the cleaners, it's the residents dumping rubbish and fly-tipping).
So, there we have it. Not much to inspire if I'm being honest - nuggets of ideas which could work but in larger seas of platitudes or policies that are either beyond the Mayor's power or potentially illegal.
Does the Conservative really want to have TWELVE hours of mandatory sport for secondary school pupils per week ?
Unless the idea is to get them running around the streets where are the required sporting facilities to come from ?
Not that it matters as we all know Labour will win.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn instead.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
As long as the majority of Welsh voters are content with the performance of the Welsh legislature, surely their position in league tables doesn't really matter? We may think it matters, but we aren't Welsh voters.
(i) A majority of voters are NOT content with the performance of the Welsh government. In 2016, Labour got 34.6 per cent of the constituency vote. and 31,5 % of the regional vote. Very far from a majority.
They sank even lower in 2007 - 32% and 29% - but still won 27 seats. That's how tough getting them out of office is. (As the rainbow alternative failed, and Plaid propped them up for four years by which time the Coalition were in government and a target for Morgan to aim at, in 2011 they regained their majority.)
It's also however why the collapse if they go below that might be cliff-edge rather than the gradual decline we've seen in Scotland.
But, you've got 15-20% voting for Plaid, whose only objection to Labour is that they are not left wing enough.
Quite. I expect the next government of Wales to be a Labour/PC coalition. PC will never back the Tories and I don't think it is possible for the Tories to outvote both of them. I therefore don't see how Labour ever get put out of government in Wales no matter how badly they perform.
As long as the majority of Welsh voters are content with the performance of the Welsh legislature, surely their position in league tables doesn't really matter? We may think it matters, but we aren't Welsh voters.
(i) A majority of voters are NOT content with the performance of the Welsh government. In 2016, Labour got 34.6 per cent of the constituency vote. and 31,5 % of the regional vote. Very far from a majority.
They sank even lower in 2007 - 32% and 29% - but still won 27 seats. That's how tough getting them out of office is. (As the rainbow alternative failed, and Plaid propped them up for four years by which time the Coalition were in government and a target for Morgan to aim at, in 2011 they regained their majority.)
It's also however why the collapse if they go below that might be cliff-edge rather than the gradual decline we've seen in Scotland.
But, you've got 15-20% voting for Plaid, whose only objection to Labour is that they are not left wing enough.
Quite. I expect the next government of Wales to be a Labour/PC coalition. PC will never back the Tories and I don't think it is possible for the Tories to outvote both of them. I therefore don't see how Labour ever get put out of government in Wales no matter how badly they perform.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn instead.
And of course you are one of many who would be angry but if the mps are going to keep us in the CU not one Brexiteer could change the arithmetic. It has been a concerted and well organised conspiracy against the vote but I would be surprised to see her go as if the 48 letters go in I can see her winning any ballot of all the conservative mps.
Voting Corbyn may well be attractive to some but if she merges from this with agreement backed by the HOC I cannot see anything but her position being strenghtened
"Morgan went further and also questioned the very principle behind the “hostile environment”. No wonder she lost her job as soon as May took over as prime minister"
The Government has, so far, got all of its main Brexit legislation past the Commons unamended.
On the second, I'm not sure. It would depend on the overall package. But, even if I wasn't, it wouldn't make me any more favourably disposed towards the EU, which I'd continue to have no confidence in and politically oppose.
I would be disappointed if we remained in the CU as it would effectively kill any notion of "Global Britain" and wreck our chances of becoming genuinely open for business.
I realise a CU would be "easier" for everyone but I hoped we had decided to leave the EU in order to set a new direction for the 2020s and beyond. Staying tied to the EU through the CU sounds a weak compromise.
Obviously, I could be wrong and the CU is off the agenda but there are some worrying signals growing.
It's very worrying.
Although, interestingly, Downing Street has put out a message in the last hour that membership of the (or a) CU is not on the agenda.
BBC News reporting No 10 has re-emphasised in the last hour that we will leave the customs union. This, of course, was a pledge in the government party's manifesto so Lords should not stop it per constitutional custom. May would thus have every right to stack the upper house if unelected peers try to overrule the people.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will
I called that earlier on this year*
If Theresa May keeps us in the customs union I'll do regularly threads saying she's the greatest Tory of her generation, even better than Dave and George.
The logical end game will be not to offer a referendum on a customs union, but to say in a few years time, well since we're in the customs union we might as well rejoin the single market.
Rejoining the single market and its restraint on state intervention will look brilliant after 5 years of PM Corbyn.
That won't be the end game. The end game will be to apply to rejoin the EU.
The ultras know that if we do leave both the single market and customs union the UK will move on, and there will never be any going back.
The revolution was doomed when the revolutionaries left the ancien regime in power, its functionaries in work, and its institutions unreformed.
I fear that Brexiteers won the war but will lose the peace, and consequently the war will have been for nothing.
Who knows?
A lot of twists and turns to come yet. But, I have been anticipating serious trouble in the Lords for months.
I don’t think the Lords matters much when there is no Commons majority for the Government’s negotiating stance.
Are you still 100% in favour of Brexit if the government concedes a customs union that means someone else decides our trade policy?
I ask because I’m no longer sure myself.
The Government has, so far, got all of its main Brexit legislation past the Commons unamended.
On the second, I'm not sure. It would depend on the overall package. But, even if I wasn't, it wouldn't make me any more favourably disposed towards the EU, which I'd continue to have no confidence in and politically oppose.
I could live with the Single Market if we ended the madness of a non-contributory welfare state and health service, but it’s difficult to see a catalyst for that.
I want the UK to be able to design both its own trade policy and regulatory regime.
BBC News reporting No 10 has re-emphasised in the last hour that we will leave the customs union. This, of course, was a pledge in the government party's manifesto so Lords should not stop it per constitutional custom. May would thus have every right to stack the upper house if unelected peers try to overrule the people.
I think it is the HOC where the problem is but if she makes it a confidence vote it will be very interesting.
BBC News reporting No 10 has re-emphasised in the last hour that we will leave the customs union. This, of course, was a pledge in the government party's manifesto so Lords should not stop it per constitutional custom. May would thus have every right to stack the upper house if unelected peers try to overrule the people.
I am happy to have my name put forward as a One Year Peer.....
BBC News reporting No 10 has re-emphasised in the last hour that we will leave the customs union. This, of course, was a pledge in the government party's manifesto so Lords should not stop it per constitutional custom. May would thus have every right to stack the upper house if unelected peers try to overrule the people.
I am happy to have my name put forward as a One Year Peer.....
BBC News reporting No 10 has re-emphasised in the last hour that we will leave the customs union. This, of course, was a pledge in the government party's manifesto so Lords should not stop it per constitutional custom. May would thus have every right to stack the upper house if unelected peers try to overrule the people.
I think it is the HOC where the problem is but if she makes it a confidence vote it will be very interesting.
And she is stubborn
If individual Tory MPs and Labour want the UK to have their economic policy set by the EU without us having say in it, then that is an argument May should be able to win.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
BBC News reporting No 10 has re-emphasised in the last hour that we will leave the customs union. This, of course, was a pledge in the government party's manifesto so Lords should not stop it per constitutional custom. May would thus have every right to stack the upper house if unelected peers try to overrule the people.
I think it is the HOC where the problem is but if she makes it a confidence vote it will be very interesting.
And she is stubborn
She could lose it. Many of the Remainers may be entirely reconciled that they will not fight another general election themselves. They will say they are doing their duty to the country!
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
If i think she's betrayed my leave vote - Corbyn it is.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
If the worst happens, then I'll probably withdraw from politics.
The UK remaining a bit-part player as a member state of a federal union, with the two main parties merely engaging in periodic squawks about the right tweaks to make to public spending, whilst pursuing very similar social policies, and otherwise wholly constrained by the EU, holds no interest for me.
BBC News reporting No 10 has re-emphasised in the last hour that we will leave the customs union. This, of course, was a pledge in the government party's manifesto so Lords should not stop it per constitutional custom. May would thus have every right to stack the upper house if unelected peers try to overrule the people.
I am happy to have my name put forward as a One Year Peer.....
Me too. May should threaten the Lords with 100 new peers.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
My plan is to escape. Probably to somewhere like Calgary, which is in a soundly Conservative province of Canada (although not at the moment, as the PCs effectively split a few years ago, and have only belatedly reunited) and is consistently ranked in the top 10 cities to live in the world.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
If the worst happens, then I'll probably withdraw from politics.
The UK remaining a bit-part player as a member state of a federal union, with the two main parties merely engaging in periodic squawks about the right tweaks to make to public spending, whilst pursuing very similar social policies, and otherwise wholly constrained by the EU, holds no interest for me.
So grandeur or nothing. Une certaine idée de l’Angleterre.
Who was the Tory in the 1950s who said that Britain would always be a great country, but that her people would need to divorce their self-esteem from great power status? It’s in Hennessy, “Having it so good: Britain in the Fifties”.
BBC News reporting No 10 has re-emphasised in the last hour that we will leave the customs union. This, of course, was a pledge in the government party's manifesto so Lords should not stop it per constitutional custom. May would thus have every right to stack the upper house if unelected peers try to overrule the people.
Truss said this on Pienaar’s show this am. Not rocket science.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
My plan is to escape. Probably to somewhere like Calgary, which is in a soundly Conservative province of Canada (although not at the moment, as the PCs effectively split a few years ago, and have only belatedly reunited) and is consistently ranked in the top 10 cities to live in the world.
So you’d give up.
I don’t think you’d like the PCness of Canada. It makes the UK look like Texas.
Does the Conservative really want to have TWELVE hours of mandatory sport for secondary school pupils per week ?
Unless the idea is to get them running around the streets where are the required sporting facilities to come from ?
Not that it matters as we all know Labour will win.
It was 2 hours of sport when I was at school and I always thought that was two hours too many. To this day I'm not sure whether school was a parent to my lifelong intense dislike of sport or whether I would have developed that regardless. Either way, I used to absolutely dread those 2 hours each week.
BBC News reporting No 10 has re-emphasised in the last hour that we will leave the customs union. This, of course, was a pledge in the government party's manifesto so Lords should not stop it per constitutional custom. May would thus have every right to stack the upper house if unelected peers try to overrule the people.
I am happy to have my name put forward as a One Year Peer.....
Me too. May should threaten the Lords with 100 new peers.
So Labour could add 1000 peers to vote to abolish the place when its time comes.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
If the worst happens, then I'll probably withdraw from politics.
The UK remaining a bit-part player as a member state of a federal union, with the two main parties merely engaging in periodic squawks about the right tweaks to make to public spending, whilst pursuing very similar social policies, and otherwise wholly constrained by the EU, holds no interest for me.
So grandeur or nothing. Une certaine idée de l’Angleterre.
Who was the Tory in the 1950s who said that Britain would always be a great country, but that her people would need to divorce their self-esteem from great power status? It’s in Hennessy, “Having it so good: Britain in the Fifties”.
I don't think it's an either/or choice, and we can easily box ourselves in by our own rhetoric such that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I think it's perfectly possible for us to have an independent trade policy, and design a flexible regulatory regime that allows us to make the most of the opportunities of the 21st Century, whilst also remaining close allies that remain closely associated with the EU, just as we are with Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
If i think she's betrayed my leave vote - Corbyn it is.
I don't think the 52% were thinking of the "customs union" in June 2016. They wanted the bloody foreigners out - that means Freedom of Movement which is to do with the single market.
The UK staying within the customs union will not be inconsistent with the literal interpretation of the vote in 2016.
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
Canada or New Zealand for us
If I could live in Canada, I’d go to Toronto. I’d probably come back here at some point though. I don’t really want to live in another country permenantly.
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
Canada or New Zealand for us
If I could live in Canada, I’d go to Toronto. I’d probably come back here at some point though. I don’t really want to live in another country permenantly.
Our eldest son and his wife live in Vancouver and BC is incredible for it's scenery, wild life, sport and a good way of living
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
My plan is to escape. Probably to somewhere like Calgary, which is in a soundly Conservative province of Canada (although not at the moment, as the PCs effectively split a few years ago, and have only belatedly reunited) and is consistently ranked in the top 10 cities to live in the world.
So you’d give up.
I don’t think you’d like the PCness of Canada. It makes the UK look like Texas.
Um. Have you been to Alberta? It's pretty darn dry. And I'm used to the Maritimes, where most of my Canadian family lives, which returned wholly Liberal MPs at the last federal election.
I have no wish to endure the delights of Corbyn and McDonnell in office, which I think is the only way many of their supporters will learn their lesson. I feel no pressing need to either leave the UK or stay within it just to make a point, so given I have transferable skills in infrastructure I would do what's best for me and my family. I'd prefer Canada over the Middle East, or US (too foreign), New Zealand (too far/quiet) and Australia (too Australia).
I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
My plan is to escape. Probably to somewhere like Calgary, which is in a soundly Conservative province of Canada (although not at the moment, as the PCs effectively split a few years ago, and have only belatedly reunited) and is consistently ranked in the top 10 cities to live in the world.
So you’d give up.
I don’t think you’d like the PCness of Canada. It makes the UK look like Texas.
Um. Have you been to Alberta? It's pretty darn dry. And I'm used to the Maritimes, where most of my Canadian family lives, which returned wholly Liberal MPs at the last federal election.
I have no wish to endure the delights of Corbyn and McDonnell in office, which I think is the only way many of their supporters will learn their lesson. I feel no pressing need to either leave the UK or stay within it just to make a point, so given I have transferable skills in infrastructure I would do what's best for me and my family. I'd prefer Canada over the Middle East, or US (too foreign), New Zealand (too far/quiet) and Australia (too Australia).
The reslience of PB Tory Leavers is a wonder to behold!
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
Canada or New Zealand for us
If I could live in Canada, I’d go to Toronto. I’d probably come back here at some point though. I don’t really want to live in another country permenantly.
Our eldest son and his wife live in Vancouver and BC is incredible for it's scenery, wild life, sport and a good way of living
I spent 2 nights in Seattle a few months ago but I haven't been to Vancouver so far. It rained most of the time.
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
I’ll make an exception for Venezuela.
Which could be where we end up.
I had a few beers with a retired friend of my father's last night. He met the great-great-great-grandson of Simón Bolívar recently who, bizarrely, is a car dealer in the UK, who still has family connections in both Bolivia and Venezuela.
They got talking politics and, after a short while, he said; "I'll only ever give someone one piece of political advice: never ever vote Socialist. You will lose your own country faster than you can believe."
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
If i think she's betrayed my leave vote - Corbyn it is.
I don't think the 52% were thinking of the "customs union" in June 2016. They wanted the bloody foreigners out - that means Freedom of Movement which is to do with the single market.
The UK staying within the customs union will not be inconsistent with the literal interpretation of the vote in 2016.
A patronising misrepresentation of the motivations and intelligence of Leave voters that is all too common with Ultra-Remainers, and, conveniently, well-designed to suit their ulterior motive too.
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
I’ll make an exception for Venezuela.
Which could be where we end up.
I had a few beers with a retired friend of my father's last night. He met the great-great-great-grandson of Simón Bolívar recently who, bizarrely, is a car dealer in the UK, who still has family connections in both Bolivia and Venezuela.
They got talking politics and, after a short while, he said; "I'll only ever give someone one piece of political advice: never ever vote Socialist. You will lose your own country faster than you can believe."
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
My plan is to escape. Probably to somewhere like Calgary, which is in a soundly Conservative province of Canada (although not at the moment, as the PCs effectively split a few years ago, and have only belatedly reunited) and is consistently ranked in the top 10 cities to live in the world.
So you’d give up.
I don’t think you’d like the PCness of Canada. It makes the UK look like Texas.
Um. Have you been to Alberta? It's pretty darn dry. And I'm used to the Maritimes, where most of my Canadian family lives, which returned wholly Liberal MPs at the last federal election.
I have no wish to endure the delights of Corbyn and McDonnell in office, which I think is the only way many of their supporters will learn their lesson. I feel no pressing need to either leave the UK or stay within it just to make a point, so given I have transferable skills in infrastructure I would do what's best for me and my family. I'd prefer Canada over the Middle East, or US (too foreign), New Zealand (too far/quiet) and Australia (too Australia).
The reslience of PB Tory Leavers is a wonder to behold!
Clearly the patriotic thing to do if don't like where your country is going. Anti-patriots such as Corbyn would stay and fight for what they believe in....
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
Canada or New Zealand for us
If I could live in Canada, I’d go to Toronto. I’d probably come back here at some point though. I don’t really want to live in another country permenantly.
Our eldest son and his wife live in Vancouver and BC is incredible for it's scenery, wild life, sport and a good way of living
I spent 2 nights in Seattle a few months ago but I haven't been to Vancouver so far. It rained most of the time.
Recommend you visit and go and explore the rocky mountains or take a cruise to Alaska
FPT, I have taken Peter's tip of £10 on a GE this year at 10/1.
I will certainly struggle to continue to support May if she caves in on the Customs Union. It goes against the basis of the whole Government's negotiating position for the last 16 months. She must ensure the UK is no longer bound by the Common Commercial Policy or the Common External Tariff.
I can see her parliamentary position unravelling very quickly if she doesn't because Parliament (be it the HoC and/or the HoL) voting against it would amount to a VoNC, in my opinion.
It would be better to call the whole thing off then leave the EU but find ourselves stuck in all it's institutions like the customs union without any say on how all these institutions are run.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
It will be the mps and Lords who betray Brexit and TM will have to deliver the will of the Commons
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Sorry, she's in charge (supposedly)
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
I’m not sure economic disaster is a sensible response to the betrayal of Brexit.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
I think you would greatly regret voting for Corbyn.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
If i think she's betrayed my leave vote - Corbyn it is.
I don't think the 52% were thinking of the "customs union" in June 2016. They wanted the bloody foreigners out - that means Freedom of Movement which is to do with the single market.
The UK staying within the customs union will not be inconsistent with the literal interpretation of the vote in 2016.
A patronising misrepresentation of the motivations and intelligence of Leave voters that is all too common with Ultra-Remainers, and, conveniently, well-designed to suit their ulterior motive too.
I see right through it, and so do most of us.
The thing is though Casino, do you really believe all the 52% had their hearts set on not being in a customs union?
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
Canada or New Zealand for us
If I could live in Canada, I’d go to Toronto. I’d probably come back here at some point though. I don’t really want to live in another country permenantly.
Our eldest son and his wife live in Vancouver and BC is incredible for it's scenery, wild life, sport and a good way of living
I spent 2 nights in Seattle a few months ago but I haven't been to Vancouver so far. It rained most of the time.
Recommend you visit and go and explore the rocky mountains or take a cruise to Alaska
Two of my favourite places in that part of the world. Vancouver Island and the San Juan Islands, the later is a part few international tourists go, and even the former not many head over to the far side of the island to places like Tofino.
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
Canada or New Zealand for us
If I could live in Canada, I’d go to Toronto. I’d probably come back here at some point though. I don’t really want to live in another country permenantly.
Our eldest son and his wife live in Vancouver and BC is incredible for it's scenery, wild life, sport and a good way of living
I spent 2 nights in Seattle a few months ago but I haven't been to Vancouver so far. It rained most of the time.
Recommend you visit and go and explore the rocky mountains or take a cruise to Alaska
Two of my favourite places in that part of the world. Vancouver Island and the San Juan Islands, the later is a part few international tourists go, and even the former not many head over to the far side of the island to places like Tofino.
I went to Vancouver Island last September and stayed just near Tofino - a wonderful place!
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
Canada or New Zealand for us
If I could live in Canada, I’d go to Toronto. I’d probably come back here at some point though. I don’t really want to live in another country permenantly.
Our eldest son and his wife live in Vancouver and BC is incredible for it's scenery, wild life, sport and a good way of living
I spent 2 nights in Seattle a few months ago but I haven't been to Vancouver so far. It rained most of the time.
Recommend you visit and go and explore the rocky mountains or take a cruise to Alaska
Two of my favourite places in that part of the world. Vancouver Island and the San Juan Islands, the later is a part few international tourists go, and even the former not many head over to the far side of the island to places like Tofino.
I went to Vancouver Island last September and stayed just near Tofino - a wonderful place!
I actually thinking of heading there for some off-grid R&R in the fall.
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
Canada or New Zealand for us
If I could live in Canada, I’d go to Toronto. I’d probably come back here at some point though. I don’t really want to live in another country permenantly.
Our eldest son and his wife live in Vancouver and BC is incredible for it's scenery, wild life, sport and a good way of living
I spent 2 nights in Seattle a few months ago but I haven't been to Vancouver so far. It rained most of the time.
Recommend you visit and go and explore the rocky mountains or take a cruise to Alaska
Two of my favourite places in that part of the world. Vancouver Island and the San Juan Islands, the later is a part few international tourists go, and even the former not many head over to the far side of the island to places like Tofino.
I went to Vancouver Island last September and stayed just near Tofino - a wonderful place!
My eldest son and his wife carved in the sand of Tofino beach - 'Engaged 1st January 2015' and sent us a selfie to announce their engagement
And we had no idea it was on the cards. Now happily married in Vancouver
I think I'd try and make a difference in the Tory party before leaving for good. Try and lead a purge of the wets and remainers. I think my background would also make me impervious to many criticisms faced by most Tories. From an estate, Asian, grammar school education, got a foreign partner, never made any dodgy deals and actually worked in the real world before a career in finance.
Additionally I think my views on housing, education and university fees would be much more popular than what the current leadership is pushing (fuck private landlord scumbags, follow the Swiss model, cut them back to what I paid - £1200 per year).
I don't particularly want a career in politics though and it would be a genuinely life changing pay cut to pursue it. I could probably learn to live with the latter, but I believe I'd end up hating the role I'd have to play in order to make it - get selected for a winnable seat, curry enough favour with the leadership/whips to get a junior position in the party, keep my mouth shut when the leadership does something idiotic to help get a cabinet/front bench position, start keeping a black book of dirty deeds committed by my colleagues, jostle into some kind of position to launch a leadership bid and then actually win. By the time I would get to step two or three, the suit would have become the man and I'd despise myself and quit.
I'd genuinely only go all in if I was joined by 20-30 like minded people who could all make it to parliament.
The Tory party will return to being solidly pro-European. There will be no future for Brexiteers after the wasted years spent getting out of this cul-de-sac.
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
The Tory party will return to being solidly pro-European. There will be no future for Brexiteers after the wasted years spent getting out of this cul-de-sac.
It is perfectly possible to be pro European but want to keep the UK out of the EU.
At the most in a decade or two once immigration has been brought under control the Tories may return to supporting the single market but not the full EU
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
Maybe the Leavers need "control of the borders", not to keep foreigners out, but to keep us in. Sort of a British Berlin Wall scenario
Please stop the foreigners out crap,for many people on the leave side who voted because of immigration was for control of our borders.
Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the foreigners out?
Not forgetting the option it gives us to expel some of our own citizens who can't evidence their residence throughout every one of the past 50-70 years!
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
Even if we were still in the EU the extra numbers of Brits moving to mainland Europe for work would be minimal as most don't have the language skills to be employable.
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
Even if we were still in the EU the extra numbers of Brits moving to mainland Europe for work would be minimal as most don't have the language skills to be employable.
Indeed - having our native language as a global language has truly been a double-edged sword.
Please stop the foreigners out crap,for many people on the leave side who voted because of immigration was for control of our borders.
Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the foreigners out?
Not forgetting the option it gives us to expel some of our own citizens who can't evidence their residence throughout every one of the past 50-70 years!
Can any of us? Your Birth Certificate is not evidence of identity and many of us earned nothing before 16 to 20 years old and I certainly have never possessed a "Landing Card".
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
Maybe the Leavers need "control of the borders", not to keep foreigners out, but to keep us in. Sort of a British Berlin Wall scenario
Anyone else remember the BBC TV serial "1990", where a socialist government restricts emigration to stop "the brain drain"?
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
Even if we were still in the EU the extra numbers of Brits moving to mainland Europe for work would be minimal as most don't have the language skills to be employable.
I’d have thought that Conservatives on here would be more inclined towards going to Australia or America.
Canada or New Zealand for us
If I could live in Canada, I’d go to Toronto. I’d probably come back here at some point though. I don’t really want to live in another country permenantly.
Our eldest son and his wife live in Vancouver and BC is incredible for it's scenery, wild life, sport and a good way of living
I spent 2 nights in Seattle a few months ago but I haven't been to Vancouver so far. It rained most of the time.
Recommend you visit and go and explore the rocky mountains or take a cruise to Alaska
Two of my favourite places in that part of the world. Vancouver Island and the San Juan Islands, the later is a part few international tourists go, and even the former not many head over to the far side of the island to places like Tofino.
Please stop the foreigners out crap,for many people on the leave side who voted because of immigration was for control of our borders.
Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the foreigners out?
Not forgetting the option it gives us to expel some of our own citizens who can't evidence their residence throughout every one of the past 50-70 years!
Can any of us? Your Birth Certificate is not evidence of identity and many of us earned nothing before 16 to 20 years old and I certainly have never possessed a "Landing Card".
Which simply serves to reinforce how outrageous the treatment of some of the Windrush generation has been (as, to be fair, pretty much everyone on PB seems to agree).
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
Even if we were still in the EU the extra numbers of Brits moving to mainland Europe for work would be minimal as most don't have the language skills to be employable.
Surprised numbers going to Canada is so low. Thriving oil and gas industry (and all the ancillary stuff like fire and police needed), plus lots of creative high tech industries have relocated from Seattle to Vancouver (due to tax incentives) are definitely in the wheel house of things Brits are known to be well skilled in. Plus pretty liberal immigration policy for those skilled in the in-demand sectors.
Please stop the foreigners out crap,for many people on the leave side who voted because of immigration was for control of our borders.
Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the foreigners out?
Not forgetting the option it gives us to expel some of our own citizens who can't evidence their residence throughout every one of the past 50-70 years!
Can any of us? Your Birth Certificate is not evidence of identity and many of us earned nothing before 16 to 20 years old and I certainly have never possessed a "Landing Card".
The passport office accepts birth certificates as proof of citizenship.
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
Even if we were still in the EU the extra numbers of Brits moving to mainland Europe for work would be minimal as most don't have the language skills to be employable.
Surprised numbers going to Canada is so low. Thriving oil and gas industry (and all the ancillary stuff like fire and police needed), plus lots of creative high tech industries have relocated from Seattle to Vancouver (due to tax incentives) are definitely in the wheel house of things Brits are known to be well skilled in. Plus pretty liberal immigration policy for those skilled in the in-demand sectors.
I would imagine the weather has something to do with it, especially the Canadian winters.
Florida, New South Wales or the Costa Del Sol hold more attraction for Brits on that front if they want a warmer climate
Please stop the foreigners out crap,for many people on the leave side who voted because of immigration was for control of our borders.
Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the foreigners out?
Please Bev,you are better than this,don't stoop to their level.
I am sorry you think that, but I cannot see any other meaning to the phrase other than controlling who gets in. We cannot keep our own nationals out because they have a right to reside here. That only leaves foreigners.
As regards non-EU people, we already have the ability to decide who gets in and who does not so perhaps I can modify my original statement to "Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the EU foreigners out?"
I cannot see what else it can mean. Control of immigration means keeping most people out and selecting who gets in. What else can it possibly mean? What other interpretations are there?
Please stop the foreigners out crap,for many people on the leave side who voted because of immigration was for control of our borders.
Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the foreigners out?
Not forgetting the option it gives us to expel some of our own citizens who can't evidence their residence throughout every one of the past 50-70 years!
Can any of us? Your Birth Certificate is not evidence of identity and many of us earned nothing before 16 to 20 years old and I certainly have never possessed a "Landing Card".
Which simply serves to reinforce how outrageous the treatment of some of the Windrush generation has been (as, to be fair, pretty much everyone on PB seems to agree).
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
Even if we were still in the EU the extra numbers of Brits moving to mainland Europe for work would be minimal as most don't have the language skills to be employable.
Surprised numbers going to Canada is so low. Thriving oil and gas industry (and all the ancillary stuff like fire and police needed), plus lots of creative high tech industries have relocated from Seattle to Vancouver (due to tax incentives) are definitely in the wheel house of things Brits are known to be well skilled in. Plus pretty liberal immigration policy for those skilled in the in-demand sectors.
I would imagine the weather has something to do with it, especially the Canadian winters.
Florida, New South Wales or the Costa Del Sol hold more attraction for Brits on that front if they want a warmer climate
Is a fair point. Although Vancouver doesn't really get that cold in the winter (it is just quite rainy), and oil / gas workers probably likely to be used to less than perfect weather. Also summers in places like Toronto are bloody hot.
Only 36k a year going just surprised me, especially given the expansion in oil / gas paying big money.
Just wait until Supreme Leader gets in....the government will REALLLLLLLY be taxing all those who choose to stay, until the pips squeak.
Guffaw! "...all those who choose to stay..."
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
Maybe the Leavers need "control of the borders", not to keep foreigners out, but to keep us in. Sort of a British Berlin Wall scenario
Anyone else remember the BBC TV serial "1990", where a socialist government restricts emigration to stop "the brain drain"?
Please stop the foreigners out crap,for many people on the leave side who voted because of immigration was for control of our borders.
Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the foreigners out?
Not forgetting the option it gives us to expel some of our own citizens who can't evidence their residence throughout every one of the past 50-70 years!
Can any of us? Your Birth Certificate is not evidence of identity and many of us earned nothing before 16 to 20 years old and I certainly have never possessed a "Landing Card".
The passport office accepts birth certificates as proof of citizenship.
Which is more than the Registrar who issues them does - it says clearly on the bottom of Birth Certificates that they are not evidence of identity.
Please stop the foreigners out crap,for many people on the leave side who voted because of immigration was for control of our borders.
Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the foreigners out?
Not forgetting the option it gives us to expel some of our own citizens who can't evidence their residence throughout every one of the past 50-70 years!
Can any of us? Your Birth Certificate is not evidence of identity and many of us earned nothing before 16 to 20 years old and I certainly have never possessed a "Landing Card".
The passport office accepts birth certificates as proof of citizenship.
Which is more than the Registrar who issues them does - it says clearly on the bottom of Birth Certificates that they are not evidence of identity.
No, but it is evidence of citizenship, and is the only piece of evidence you need to get a new passport.
Comments
Arizona's Eighth District contains a community called Sun City West which probably tells you all you need to know.
On a related. election fever warms up in Newham - Labour have put round their first leaflet in my Ward which includes a leaflet for Councillor Fiaz, the Labour candidate for Mayor.
On Friday we had the booklet with the election addresses (or what passes for them) from the five runners in the 2018 renewal of the Newham Mayoral Handicap open to 3-y-o of all ages.
The long odds-on favourite is the aforementioned Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz who defeated Sir Robin Wales 861-503 in the Labour selection contest. She has eight core messages including a pledge to build 1000 new Council homes by 2022 which will be let at social rent levels. Given 45% of Newham's population lives in private rented accommodation it's a policy she thinks will resonate in an era of multi-occupancy dwellings. The rest of it is basically platitudes.
Second favourite is Rahima Khan, the Conservative candidate who has achived zero visibility since her selection last summer. She also talks about affordable social housing and apparently will curb developers marketing and selling homes to foreign investors (how?). Another policy is free breakfasts for primary school children (fair enough but presumably not from the greasy spoon in the Barking Road) and a mandatory 12 hours per week of sport for secondary school pupils (does she have the power to introduce this ?)
To the also-rans or the not-likely-to-get-off the starting blocks candidates - Chishala Kumalinga represents the Christian People's Alliance (CPA). A few years back Alan Craig and the CPA were the Opposition on Newham Council from their power base in Canning Town but that got swept away last time. Her flagship policy is to provide a night shelter and a free meal to anyone sleeping rough (sounds nice).
Daniel Oxley is standing for the Democrats & Veterans Party and for those who keep a close eye on such things, he was the UKIP candidate for East Ham at the 2017 GE. I wonder how many ex-UKIP people have joined this new grouping which seems to want to promote "British values" to achieve social cohesion (hmm). He supports PR (tick) but believes in Direct Democracy (whatever that means) where 20% of the registered electors can trigger a referendum on an issue.
Finally, Gareth Evans is the LD candidate. His main message is to set up a Violence Reduction Unit bringing together several agencies on the model of what has been adopted in Glasgow (no bad thing). He also wants to improve street cleaning (the problem isn't the cleaners, it's the residents dumping rubbish and fly-tipping).
So, there we have it. Not much to inspire if I'm being honest - nuggets of ideas which could work but in larger seas of platitudes or policies that are either beyond the Mayor's power or potentially illegal.
However, if Labour elect Drakeford, then I agree Leanne's strategy is wrong.
In fact, if Drakeford comes to pass, I think Leanne will face a leadership challenge, shortly thereafter.
On the second, I'm not sure. It would depend on the overall package. But, even if I wasn't, it wouldn't make me any more favourably disposed towards the EU, which I'd continue to have no confidence in and politically oppose.
Are you saying that when the Lords agreed to the referendum, they always intended to block it, if they didn't get the 'right' result?
Psychologically a soft Remainer like May will always be more likely to compromise than a Brexiteer.
As for Theresa, the Brexiteers MUST get rid of her when she betrays Brexit. Even if that means the government falls and we have another general election and a Corbyn government...
If she's not dispatched for betraying Brexit the Tories will be unelectable for a decade.
I realise a CU would be "easier" for everyone but I hoped we had decided to leave the EU in order to set a new direction for the 2020s and beyond. Staying tied to the EU through the CU sounds a weak compromise.
Obviously, I could be wrong and the CU is off the agenda but there are some worrying signals growing.
There will be no election while Corbyn is around
Unless the idea is to get them running around the streets where are the required sporting facilities to come from ?
Not that it matters as we all know Labour will win.
She's the one saying "Brexit means Brexit" She's the one who stood for election on a platform that we'd leave the SM and CU.
If that doesn't get delivered she carries the can - The buck stops with her - Particularly as it seems she can't control her own europhile MP's.
As for Corbyn - He might be just the kick of the arse our self-serving establishment needs - As they're in the process of betraying the voters on Brexit it looks like we'll have to get the message across through voting for Corbyn instead.
I totally understand the sentiment though.
Sometimes you have to tear everything down in order to build something better...
Also looks like she’s been bullied off of Twitter as well today (see her account), sadly.
We can argue about it when we’re in the gulag.
Voting Corbyn may well be attractive to some but if she merges from this with agreement backed by the HOC I cannot see anything but her position being strenghtened
Good article, as usual, from Isabel Hardman.
Although, interestingly, Downing Street has put out a message in the last hour that membership of the (or a) CU is not on the agenda.
And she is stubborn
The UK remaining a bit-part player as a member state of a federal union, with the two main parties merely engaging in periodic squawks about the right tweaks to make to public spending, whilst pursuing very similar social policies, and otherwise wholly constrained by the EU, holds no interest for me.
I think we may need to change the year to 2018. It seems dear Mr Cruz could be in trouble!
https://twitter.com/holland_tom/status/988161150826270731
Who was the Tory in the 1950s who said that Britain would always be a great country, but that her people would need to divorce their self-esteem from great power status? It’s in Hennessy, “Having it so good: Britain in the Fifties”.
https://twitter.com/wikiguido/status/988141482019360769?s=21
I don’t think you’d like the PCness of Canada. It makes the UK look like Texas.
I think it's perfectly possible for us to have an independent trade policy, and design a flexible regulatory regime that allows us to make the most of the opportunities of the 21st Century, whilst also remaining close allies that remain closely associated with the EU, just as we are with Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
The UK staying within the customs union will not be inconsistent with the literal interpretation of the vote in 2016.
I’ll make an exception for Venezuela.
I have no wish to endure the delights of Corbyn and McDonnell in office, which I think is the only way many of their supporters will learn their lesson. I feel no pressing need to either leave the UK or stay within it just to make a point, so given I have transferable skills in infrastructure I would do what's best for me and my family. I'd prefer Canada over the Middle East, or US (too foreign), New Zealand (too far/quiet) and Australia (too Australia).
I had a few beers with a retired friend of my father's last night. He met the great-great-great-grandson of Simón Bolívar recently who, bizarrely, is a car dealer in the UK, who still has family connections in both Bolivia and Venezuela.
They got talking politics and, after a short while, he said; "I'll only ever give someone one piece of political advice: never ever vote Socialist. You will lose your own country faster than you can believe."
@RoyalBlue I didn’t know that! I always had the impression it was pretty hard to emigrate to Canada.
I see right through it, and so do most of us.
Please stop the foreigners out crap,for many people on the leave side who voted because of immigration was for control of our borders.
Hope everyone has a pleasant nights rest.
Politics is taxing many at present
Good night folks
Good night Big_G!
Have a good night
And we had no idea it was on the cards. Now happily married in Vancouver
Additionally I think my views on housing, education and university fees would be much more popular than what the current leadership is pushing (fuck private landlord scumbags, follow the Swiss model, cut them back to what I paid - £1200 per year).
I don't particularly want a career in politics though and it would be a genuinely life changing pay cut to pursue it. I could probably learn to live with the latter, but I believe I'd end up hating the role I'd have to play in order to make it - get selected for a winnable seat, curry enough favour with the leadership/whips to get a junior position in the party, keep my mouth shut when the leadership does something idiotic to help get a cabinet/front bench position, start keeping a black book of dirty deeds committed by my colleagues, jostle into some kind of position to launch a leadership bid and then actually win. By the time I would get to step two or three, the suit would have become the man and I'd despise myself and quit.
I'd genuinely only go all in if I was joined by 20-30 like minded people who could all make it to parliament.
Outside the rarified world of PB, I can assure you the overwhelming majority across the country do not have a realistic way of choosing to live elsewhere in the world*.
(* Unless we include moving to another country in the EU, and Leavers doing their best to close that option down).
At the most in a decade or two once immigration has been brought under control the Tories may return to supporting the single market but not the full EU
A million Brits went to Oz in the 1970s though.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/holidays/article-3033680/The-destinations-Britons-emigrating-revealed-Spain-number-three.html
Florida, New South Wales or the Costa Del Sol hold more attraction for Brits on that front if they want a warmer climate
As regards non-EU people, we already have the ability to decide who gets in and who does not so perhaps I can modify my original statement to "Surely we only need "control of our borders" to keep the EU foreigners out?"
I cannot see what else it can mean. Control of immigration means keeping most people out and selecting who gets in. What else can it possibly mean? What other interpretations are there?
Only 36k a year going just surprised me, especially given the expansion in oil / gas paying big money.
Edward Woodward as the hero
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/674893/guidance_for_passport_applications.pdf