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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why betting on the 2020 Republican nomination is better value

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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294
    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    edited April 2018
    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    And in that circumstance (die-hards the only Republicans left) Pence would surely be well-positioned. cf. McGovern.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Brazilian Presidential candidate denies being far-right, and says he's only like Le Pen and Wilders.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/19/jair-bolsonaro-brazil-presidential-candidate-trump-parallels

    Errr...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048
    Nick Clegg has done a podcast.
    His first guest ?

    Nigel Farage.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294
    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Nope. Hence “voted”.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    surby said:

    Nigelb said:

    Comey is probably doing Trump more good than harm.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of his treatment, it is not a good look for a former FBI director - and potential witness in the Mueller investigation - to be doing a trash talking book tour.
    He was politically naive to the point of idiocy in his treatment of the Clinton emails days before the election, and doesn't appear to have acquired much wisdom since then.

    The Cohen raid is a far greater threat to Trump.

    The Dems seem to have one eye on the possibility of Pence being their opponent come the next presidential election...
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/19/pence-lgbt-human-rights-536927

    Yes. Pence and the highly ambitious Nikki Haley.
    Shadsy just quoted Haley at 20/1 for the GOP nominee. I think that's way too short. For her to get it, she'd need:

    1. To resign her post, challenge Trump, and win. Or
    2. For Pence to go as VP, and then for her to do a Gerald Ford. Or
    3. For Trump to opt to not stand, and for her to win the open vacancy. Or
    4. For Trump to go midterm and for Pence either to not stand or for her to challenge him for the nomination and win.

    None of those seem at all likely - but then I rate Trump's survival chances much higher than the market does.

    I did think she'd have been a good VP pick and still think he missed a trick there - but I don't think he likes powerful women around him.
    Pence looks like the very clear fav non-Trump option (obviously all the more so if Trump goes), assuming he doesn't get personally implicated in any Mueller stuff.
    Pence inherits if Trump is ousted but if, as seems likely, he simply agrees not to stand for a second term then any number of hats will be thrown into the ring. It is not as if Pence has done anything of note before or since. He is ex officio favourite but there is no obvious enthusiasm for the man.
    "As seems likely"?!

    Do you want to elaborate on that one? Any president who doesn't seek re-election lame-ducks himself for 18 months, which is more than half his remaining term.
    Lame duck considerations don't come into it since Trump is already not working with GOP congress on anything of note. Because the GOP mainstream wants Trump out but will not want to hand his scalp to a Democrat-led impeachment, the most likely outcome is for the men in grey suits to make him an offer he can't refuse: just don't run again.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339

    The latest on the shambles which George Osborne's Apprenticeship Levy is turning out to be:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43809679

    Now is this part of the persecution of immigrants I've read about here or is it because application of policy by government departments is crap ?

    The Apprentice Levy was an absolutely bonkers policy, straight out of Gordo textbook.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Actually Julian could probably vote, too, as a resident Commonwealth citizen.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    I may be teaching you to suck eggs here, @rcs1000, but I just found this from Royal London (Steve Webb) very interesting about the pension effects on the headline savings rate. It seems that companies repairing their pension deficits more slowly accounts for a large proportion of the recent decline.

    https://www.royallondon.com/Documents/PDFs/2017/Has Britain really stopped saving.pdf
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,329
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Having either failed in their native land or found it not big enough to contain their massive egos, these “chancers” (as they are known in British slang) invariably come to America where they find a ready audience among the sort of people who think an English accent automatically confers sophistication.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-brit-grifters-and-the-designated-american-suckers
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,048

    The latest on the shambles which George Osborne's Apprenticeship Levy is turning out to be:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43809679

    Now is this part of the persecution of immigrants I've read about here or is it because application of policy by government departments is crap ?

    The Apprentice Levy was an absolutely bonkers policy, straight out of Gordo textbook.
    Just read how it works, does indeed sound bonkers.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294

    rcs1000 said:

    I see that despite eight years of 'austerity', the retail apocalypse and the beast from the east retail sales last month were more than double what they were during the Loadsamoney and yuppie Lawson boom of thirty years ago:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/retailindustry/timeseries/j467/drsi

    Part of this, of course, is because the household savings rate has dropped from 15% to 5%. If your disposable income is 40% of your gross pay*, and you drop the savings rate 10%, then you increase retail sales by 25%.

    * That's probably far too high.
    Do the NEST contributions count as household savings? Or are they considered as pre-disposable income?
    The 2.4% that is the employee's contribution is counted.

    Do you know how many people are a members of (or contributors to) NEST? My guess is that it would still be a relatively small number, and that also typical NEST members are on low to average incomes, so it probably doesn't change the numbers much.

    (Back in my old fund management days, I pitched to NEST to become one of their fund managers. They had a set of requirements and demands that would mean that anyone who managed money for them would have to be a closet index tracker. Which raised the question - to me at least - of why pay active manager fees for an essentially passive fund.)
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    And in that circumstance (die-hards the only Republicans left) Pence would surely be well-positioned. cf. McGovern.
    I don't think Trump is psychologically capable of accepting failure and his shock win in 2016 will make it even harder for him to accept it before he actually loses.

    That actually makes me worry a lot about the three months of lame duck presidency after he gets smashed in 2020.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Actually Julian could probably vote, too, as a resident Commonwealth citizen.
    He's living in Ecuador, isn't he?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,426
    Scott_P said:

    I didn't vote for his campaign.

    There was only 2 boxes on the ballot paper.

    You either voted with him, or against.
    So, about the Indy ref and No being supported by various racists, Holocaust deniers, Fascists and xenophobes...

    And Nigel Farage.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    Scott_P said:

    Others like yourself and David Allen Green have been looking back and wanting to endlessly rehash old battles. You especially seem to be of the naive opinion that until old battles are refought nobody is going to move on when others already are.

    If David's waking up to what happens next perhaps you can start looking forwards rather than backwards too. I can live in hope.

    He is commenting on the epiphany some Brexiteers are now experiencing.
    Any, you know, direct quotes from epiphaneous Brexiteers?
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    rcs1000 said:

    I see that despite eight years of 'austerity', the retail apocalypse and the beast from the east retail sales last month were more than double what they were during the Loadsamoney and yuppie Lawson boom of thirty years ago:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/retailindustry/timeseries/j467/drsi

    Part of this, of course, is because the household savings rate has dropped from 15% to 5%. If your disposable income is 40% of your gross pay*, and you drop the savings rate 10%, then you increase retail sales by 25%.

    * That's probably far too high.
    It is actually shocking how poor my generation and subsequent ones are at living frugally. Deliveroo, Uber and Amazon just make it worse. I really think they need to bring back cheap cooking/personal budgeting lessons in school.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I see that despite eight years of 'austerity', the retail apocalypse and the beast from the east retail sales last month were more than double what they were during the Loadsamoney and yuppie Lawson boom of thirty years ago:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/businessindustryandtrade/retailindustry/timeseries/j467/drsi

    Part of this, of course, is because the household savings rate has dropped from 15% to 5%. If your disposable income is 40% of your gross pay*, and you drop the savings rate 10%, then you increase retail sales by 25%.

    * That's probably far too high.
    Do the NEST contributions count as household savings? Or are they considered as pre-disposable income?
    The 2.4% that is the employee's contribution is counted.

    Do you know how many people are a members of (or contributors to) NEST? My guess is that it would still be a relatively small number, and that also typical NEST members are on low to average incomes, so it probably doesn't change the numbers much.

    (Back in my old fund management days, I pitched to NEST to become one of their fund managers. They had a set of requirements and demands that would mean that anyone who managed money for them would have to be a closet index tracker. Which raised the question - to me at least - of why pay active manager fees for an essentially passive fund.)
    4.5 million as of April 2017 (2.7m active). You're right, the aggregate numbers can't be huge.

    https://www.nestpensions.org.uk/schemeweb/NestWeb/includes/public/docs/NEST-in-numbers_April_2017,PDF.pdf
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Any, you know, direct quotes from epiphaneous Brexiteers?

    An entire editorial from Fraser Nelson bemoaning the Brexit we have, not the Brexit he wished for...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294

    I may be teaching you to suck eggs here, @rcs1000, but I just found this from Royal London (Steve Webb) very interesting about the pension effects on the headline savings rate. It seems that companies repairing their pension deficits more slowly accounts for a large proportion of the recent decline.

    https://www.royallondon.com/Documents/PDFs/2017/Has Britain really stopped saving.pdf

    I'm normally a big fan of Steve Webb, but he's rather cherry picked his data here. That is, he's taken all the one-offs that dragged the savings rate down, while ignoring the one-offs that have pushed it the other way.

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    And Nigel Farage.

    He didn't have a vote.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,426
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    1968.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,426
    Scott_P said:

    And Nigel Farage.

    He didn't have a vote.
    Och well, voting with David Coburn still has a certain ring to it.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    I may be teaching you to suck eggs here, @rcs1000, but I just found this from Royal London (Steve Webb) very interesting about the pension effects on the headline savings rate. It seems that companies repairing their pension deficits more slowly accounts for a large proportion of the recent decline.

    https://www.royallondon.com/Documents/PDFs/2017/Has Britain really stopped saving.pdf

    That's very interesting, thanks for the link.

    Steve Webb and his team do come out with some very good stuff.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    1968.
    Good point :-)
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    1968.
    Ah yeah, so the McGovern thing doesn't work - but the candidate was the VP, Humphrey. Even better for my thesis!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    edited April 2018
    Scott_P said:

    Any, you know, direct quotes from epiphaneous Brexiteers?

    An entire editorial from Fraser Nelson bemoaning the Brexit we have, not the Brexit he wished for...
    All on immigration and nothing on the customs union. And he gets his facts wrong on the Clennell case. It’s precisely because she hasn’t lived for 30 years in Britain that she encountered problems.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,244

    I am ashamed to say that I voted in the referendum on the same side as Alex Salmond, Eddie Izzard, Owen Jones, Polly Toynbee and Caroline Lucas.

    (well probably, anyway).

    You can console yourself with the thought you voted as I did...
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Nigelb said:

    I am ashamed to say that I voted in the referendum on the same side as Alex Salmond, Eddie Izzard, Owen Jones, Polly Toynbee and Caroline Lucas.

    (well probably, anyway).

    You can console yourself with the thought you voted as I did...
    Phew, that's a relief!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,307
    edited April 2018
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    LBJ actually won the New Hampshire primary, the only primary he contested, albeit by less than he expected.

    As I have already said that primary campaign was also completely different from one Trump will contest as LBJ lost the support of anti war Democratic activists and the liberal base to McCarthy, Trump already has the conservative GOP base and activists locked up which is how he beat the GOP establishment for the nomination in the first place
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Actually Julian could probably vote, too, as a resident Commonwealth citizen.
    He's living in Ecuador, isn't he?
    That's an urban legend, he's living in the UK.

    Him making a trip to the ballot box would be amusing though.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    Cliff Richard privacy case: Bosses made decisions, says BBC reporter

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43825624

    Report just dropped the BBC bosses in the smelly stuff.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    LBJ actually won the New Hampshire primary, the only primary he contested, albeit by less than he expected.

    As I have already said that primary campaign was also completely different from one Trump will contest as LBJ lost the support of anti war Democratic activists and the liberal base to McCarthy, Trump already has the conservative GOP base and activists locked up which is how he beat the GOP establishment for the nomination in the first place
    Of course there are differences.

    I was just pointing out that your initial contention "No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2" was incorrect. LBJ pulled out of the Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to lose.

    As an aside, the Primary system was very different in 1968 to now. Hubert Humphrey, who won the nomination, didn't stand in any of the states that held public votes. (Just 13 of the 50 states held Primaries as we now know them.)
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,244

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    1968.
    Ah yeah, so the McGovern thing doesn't work - but the candidate was the VP, Humphrey. Even better for my thesis!
    Humphrey, despite getting trashed in the Presidential election, was a politician of substance, being the leader in the Senate for LBJ's Civil Rights Bill, and largely responsible for the invention of Medicare.

    Whereas Pence...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,244
    More evidence, was if it were needed, that Comey, in his determination to seek the spotlight, is a fool:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/18/comey-memos-subpoena-republicans-house-536587
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,346
    We should have another vote on what type of Brexit we end up getting. But only those who voted Remain should be eligible. It's only fair.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,307
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    LBJ actually won the New Hampshire primary, the only primary he contested, albeit by less than he expected.

    As I have already said that primary campaign was also completely different from one Trump will contest as LBJ lost the support of anti war Democratic activists and the liberal base to McCarthy, Trump already has the conservative GOP base and activists locked up which is how he beat the GOP establishment for the nomination in the first place
    Of course there are differences.

    I was just pointing out that your initial contention "No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2" was incorrect. LBJ pulled out of the Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to lose.

    As an aside, the Primary system was very different in 1968 to now. Hubert Humphrey, who won the nomination, didn't stand in any of the states that held public votes. (Just 13 of the 50 states held Primaries as we now know them.)
    Given Humphrey actually won the nomination who knows if LBJ would have scraped through to win the nomination in the end, he pulled out after only 1 primary which he narrowly won.

    Though you are right at that time the nomination was still decided at the convention.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,244

    surby said:

    Nigelb said:

    Comey is probably doing Trump more good than harm.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of his treatment, it is not a good look for a former FBI director - and potential witness in the Mueller investigation - to be doing a trash talking book tour.
    He was politically naive to the point of idiocy in his treatment of the Clinton emails days before the election, and doesn't appear to have acquired much wisdom since then.

    The Cohen raid is a far greater threat to Trump.

    The Dems seem to have one eye on the possibility of Pence being their opponent come the next presidential election...
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/19/pence-lgbt-human-rights-536927

    Yes. Pence and the highly ambitious Nikki Haley.

    4. For Trump to go midterm and for Pence either to not stand or for her to challenge him for the nomination and win.

    None of those seem at all likely - but then I rate Trump's survival chances much higher than the market does....
    re: item 1. Given Trump's record, she'll be sacked within 12 months, so will be free to start a PAC etc etc.
    That's a fair point and (1) should really be subdivided into 'gets sacked' and 'resigns'. However, 12 months is close to the limit. The campaigns will need to be in place in something like 16 months' time, at the latest.

    Actually, I don't think her chances of being sacked are all that high: Trump sacks those closest to him. Haley - in New York - is both out of sight and, given Trump's interest in the UN, out of mind.
    Perhaps...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/world/europe/trump-nikki-haley-russia-sanctions.html

    A former governor of South Carolina, Ms. Haley has assumed a more prominent role than most of her predecessors, at times eclipsing the secretary of state. And along the way, Mr. Trump has grown suspicious of her ambition, convinced that she had been angling for Mr. Tillerson’s position and increasingly wondering whether she wants his own job.

    Republicans close to the White House whisper about the prospect of an alliance between Ms. Haley and Vice President Mike Pence, possibly to run as a ticket in 2020.

    Aides to both scoff at such suggestions, but the slightest hint of such a pairing would be likely to enrage Mr. Trump, who has made it clear that he plans to run for re-election. The talk was exacerbated in recent days when Mr. Pence named Jon Lerner, Ms. Haley’s deputy, as his new national security adviser, while allowing him to keep his job at the United Nations.

    That plan collapsed within 48 hours when Mr. Trump grew angry at reports that Mr. Lerner had made anti-Trump ads for the Club for Growth…
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,038

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Actually Julian could probably vote, too, as a resident Commonwealth citizen.
    He's living in Ecuador, isn't he?
    That's an urban legend, he's living in the UK.

    Him making a trip to the ballot box would be amusing though.
    postal vote?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    Sam Harris & Maajid Nawaz in conversation...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGdPcC0zBIQ
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,307
    edited April 2018
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    1968.
    Ah yeah, so the McGovern thing doesn't work - but the candidate was the VP, Humphrey. Even better for my thesis!
    Humphrey, despite getting trashed in the Presidential election, was a politician of substance, being the leader in the Senate for LBJ's Civil Rights Bill, and largely responsible for the invention of Medicare.

    Whereas Pence...
    Nixon only beat Humphrey by less than 1% in 1968, until 2000 it would be 32 years before a presidential election would be as close as that in the popular vote
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Actually Julian could probably vote, too, as a resident Commonwealth citizen.
    He's living in Ecuador, isn't he?
    That's an urban legend, he's living in the UK.

    Him making a trip to the ballot box would be amusing though.
    postal vote?
    In theory though he is living in Ecuador, if that's how the "territory" (a couple of rooms and a corridor?) of the embassy is defined. So old Julian wouldn't be entitled to a vote as he's not living in the UK. Just next to it, above it and under it I guess.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    1968.
    Ah yeah, so the McGovern thing doesn't work - but the candidate was the VP, Humphrey. Even better for my thesis!
    Humphrey, despite getting trashed in the Presidential election, was a politician of substance, being the leader in the Senate for LBJ's Civil Rights Bill, and largely responsible for the invention of Medicare.

    Whereas Pence...
    Sure, I'm not opining on Pence's record. Just his appeal to the GOP in a circumstance where Trump steps down because he's obviously not going to win.

    Setting aside the politics, Pence deserves some credit for taking the risk of being Trump's VP candidate. It was a fairly uncoveted position.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,244
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    1968.
    Ah yeah, so the McGovern thing doesn't work - but the candidate was the VP, Humphrey. Even better for my thesis!
    Humphrey, despite getting trashed in the Presidential election, was a politician of substance, being the leader in the Senate for LBJ's Civil Rights Bill, and largely responsible for the invention of Medicare.

    Whereas Pence...
    Nixon only beat Humphrey by less than 1% in 1968, until 2000 it would be 32 years before a presidential election would be as close as that in the popular vote
    And 32-13 in states.

    In any event, the candidate who would likely have won was assassinated.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    welshowl said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Actually Julian could probably vote, too, as a resident Commonwealth citizen.
    He's living in Ecuador, isn't he?
    That's an urban legend, he's living in the UK.

    Him making a trip to the ballot box would be amusing though.
    postal vote?
    In theory though he is living in Ecuador, if that's how the "territory" (a couple of rooms and a corridor?) of the embassy is defined. So old Julian wouldn't be entitled to a vote as he's not living in the UK. Just next to it, above it and under it I guess.
    No he's not, as I said that's an urban legend. Embassies remain the sovereign territory of the host nation the idea that the embassy is Ecuador is simply not correct.

    The Ecuadorians simply have diplomatic immunity while being in the UK and raiding an embassy is considered a gross breach of diplomatic norms but we have the right to do so and it does remain our territory.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,244

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given Trump won the 2016 GOP nomination with virtually all the GOP establishment against him he will almost certainly win the nomination again in 2020 especially now he is POTUS.

    No incumbent President who has sought to be renominated by his party in the primaries has failed to get the nomination since WW2

    Errr. That's not true. Lyndon Johnson pulled out early in the primaries for the 1970 Democratic nomination when he realised he was going to get beat.
    1968.
    Ah yeah, so the McGovern thing doesn't work - but the candidate was the VP, Humphrey. Even better for my thesis!
    Humphrey, despite getting trashed in the Presidential election, was a politician of substance, being the leader in the Senate for LBJ's Civil Rights Bill, and largely responsible for the invention of Medicare.

    Whereas Pence...
    Sure, I'm not opining on Pence's record. Just his appeal to the GOP in a circumstance where Trump steps down because he's obviously not going to win.

    Setting aside the politics, Pence deserves some credit for taking the risk of being Trump's VP candidate...
    If ever I had a doubt about what exactly Americans mean by the phrase "shit eating grin", Pence cleared it up for me.
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Actually Julian could probably vote, too, as a resident Commonwealth citizen.
    He's living in Ecuador, isn't he?
    That's an urban legend, he's living in the UK.

    Him making a trip to the ballot box would be amusing though.
    postal vote?
    In theory though he is living in Ecuador, if that's how the "territory" (a couple of rooms and a corridor?) of the embassy is defined. So old Julian wouldn't be entitled to a vote as he's not living in the UK. Just next to it, above it and under it I guess.
    No he's not, as I said that's an urban legend. Embassies remain the sovereign territory of the host nation the idea that the embassy is Ecuador is simply not correct.

    The Ecuadorians simply have diplomatic immunity while being in the UK and raiding an embassy is considered a gross breach of diplomatic norms but we have the right to do so and it does remain our territory.
    Fair enough. I've learnt something.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    welshowl said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Actually Julian could probably vote, too, as a resident Commonwealth citizen.
    He's living in Ecuador, isn't he?
    That's an urban legend, he's living in the UK.

    Him making a trip to the ballot box would be amusing though.
    postal vote?
    In theory though he is living in Ecuador, if that's how the "territory" (a couple of rooms and a corridor?) of the embassy is defined. So old Julian wouldn't be entitled to a vote as he's not living in the UK. Just next to it, above it and under it I guess.
    No he's not, as I said that's an urban legend. Embassies remain the sovereign territory of the host nation the idea that the embassy is Ecuador is simply not correct.

    The Ecuadorians simply have diplomatic immunity while being in the UK and raiding an embassy is considered a gross breach of diplomatic norms but we have the right to do so and it does remain our territory.
    Actually I made a mistake here, the Vienna Convention does preclude us from raiding the embassy.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_P said:
    Dan is reprising the leave/remain smears. He says Labour votes support anti-semitism; doubtless he (or his opponents, or both) will say Tory votes support slinging out elderly Blacks because some junior apparatchik shredded the Windrush papers. Hard luck if you just want weekly bin collections.
    I think you are misreading him.

    He’s saying that Corbyn will -take advantage of their vote and claim things that weren’t intended
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,030

    welshowl said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Of course it’s unfair to point out that Leavers “voted” alongside

    Nigel Farage.
    Vladimir Putin.
    Jeremy Corbyn (probably)
    Milo Youknowwhopolous.
    Julian Assange.
    Donald Trump.
    That foam-flecked woman from the pro-Assad demo.

    If evil misfits are a demographic they swing heavily Leave.

    Were Assange, Putin, Trump and Milo eligible ?
    Milo is British, I'm embarrassed to say.
    Actually Julian could probably vote, too, as a resident Commonwealth citizen.
    He's living in Ecuador, isn't he?
    That's an urban legend, he's living in the UK.

    Him making a trip to the ballot box would be amusing though.
    postal vote?
    In theory though he is living in Ecuador, if that's how the "territory" (a couple of rooms and a corridor?) of the embassy is defined. So old Julian wouldn't be entitled to a vote as he's not living in the UK. Just next to it, above it and under it I guess.
    No he's not, as I said that's an urban legend. Embassies remain the sovereign territory of the host nation the idea that the embassy is Ecuador is simply not correct.

    The Ecuadorians simply have diplomatic immunity while being in the UK and raiding an embassy is considered a gross breach of diplomatic norms but we have the right to do so and it does remain our territory.
    Actually I made a mistake here, the Vienna Convention does preclude us from raiding the embassy.
    I don't think it prevents countries from revoking the status of an embassy, although that would be quite a move...
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,465

    surby said:

    Nigelb said:

    Comey is probably doing Trump more good than harm.

    The Dems seem to have one eye on the possibility of Pence being their opponent come the next presidential election...
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/19/pence-lgbt-human-rights-536927

    Yes. Pence and the highly ambitious Nikki Haley.
    Shadsy just quoted Haley at 20/1 for the GOP nominee. I think that's way too short. For her to get it, she'd need:

    1. To resign her post, challenge Trump, and win. Or
    2. For Pence to go as VP, and then for her to do a Gerald Ford. Or
    3. For Trump to opt to not stand, and for her to win the open vacancy. Or
    4. For Trump to go midterm and for Pence either to not stand or for her to challenge him for the nomination and win.

    None of those seem at all likely - but then I rate Trump's survival chances much higher than the market does.

    I did think she'd have been a good VP pick and still think he missed a trick there - but I don't think he likes powerful women around him.
    Pence looks like the very clear fav non-Trump option (obviously all the more so if Trump goes), assuming he doesn't get personally implicated in any Mueller stuff.
    Pence inherits if Trump is ousted but if, as seems likely, he simply agrees not to stand for a second term then any number of hats will be thrown into the ring. It is not as if Pence has done anything of note before or since. He is ex officio favourite but there is no obvious enthusiasm for the man.
    "As seems likely"?!

    Do you want to elaborate on that one? Any president who doesn't seek re-election lame-ducks himself for 18 months, which is more than half his remaining term.
    Lame duck considerations don't come into it since Trump is already not working with GOP congress on anything of note. Because the GOP mainstream wants Trump out but will not want to hand his scalp to a Democrat-led impeachment, the most likely outcome is for the men in grey suits to make him an offer he can't refuse: just don't run again.

    There is no such offer they could make. He ran against them last time, without the benefit of incumbency, and won. Why would someone with his ego think that he couldn't do it again, no matter what they say.

    He'd be more likely to pocket the offer and then run anyway, citing the deal as evidence of his ability.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,465
    Nigelb said:

    surby said:

    Nigelb said:

    Comey is probably doing Trump more good than harm.

    The Dems seem to have one eye on the possibility of Pence being their opponent come the next presidential election...
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/19/pence-lgbt-human-rights-536927

    Yes. Pence and the highly ambitious Nikki Haley.

    4. For Trump to go midterm and for Pence either to not stand or for her to challenge him for the nomination and win.

    None of those seem at all likely - but then I rate Trump's survival chances much higher than the market does....
    re: item 1. Given Trump's record, she'll be sacked within 12 months, so will be free to start a PAC etc etc.
    That's a fair point and (1) should really be subdivided into 'gets sacked' and 'resigns'. However, 12 months is close to the limit. The campaigns will need to be in place in something like 16 months' time, at the latest.

    Actually, I don't think her chances of being sacked are all that high: Trump sacks those closest to him. Haley - in New York - is both out of sight and, given Trump's interest in the UN, out of mind.
    Perhaps...

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/world/europe/trump-nikki-haley-russia-sanctions.html

    A former governor of South Carolina, Ms. Haley has assumed a more prominent role than most of her predecessors, at times eclipsing the secretary of state. And along the way, Mr. Trump has grown suspicious of her ambition, convinced that she had been angling for Mr. Tillerson’s position and increasingly wondering whether she wants his own job.

    Republicans close to the White House whisper about the prospect of an alliance between Ms. Haley and Vice President Mike Pence, possibly to run as a ticket in 2020.

    Aides to both scoff at such suggestions, but the slightest hint of such a pairing would be likely to enrage Mr. Trump, who has made it clear that he plans to run for re-election. The talk was exacerbated in recent days when Mr. Pence named Jon Lerner, Ms. Haley’s deputy, as his new national security adviser, while allowing him to keep his job at the United Nations.

    That plan collapsed within 48 hours when Mr. Trump grew angry at reports that Mr. Lerner had made anti-Trump ads for the Club for Growth…
    The best way to stop her from running would be to keep her where she is. She's got plenty of years left in her. Rather than have a tilt at a sitting president, it would also be in her own interests to ensure Trump won the nomination in 2020. Whatever the result then, she'd have a decent shot in 2024. You'd think the Great Dealmaker might be able to work something out of that.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    There is no such offer they could make. He ran against them last time, without the benefit of incumbency, and won. Why would someone with his ego think that he couldn't do it again, no matter what they say.

    He'd be more likely to pocket the offer and then run anyway, citing the deal as evidence of his ability.

    In the event of impeachment it would only need about 17 GOP Senators to convict. They could perhaps make a deal with him, though how they make that sufficiently private and stickable I don't know. Improbable, I concede.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    There is no such offer they could make. He ran against them last time, without the benefit of incumbency, and won. Why would someone with his ego think that he couldn't do it again, no matter what they say.

    He'd be more likely to pocket the offer and then run anyway, citing the deal as evidence of his ability.

    In the event of impeachment it would only need about 17 GOP Senators to convict. They could perhaps make a deal with him, though how they make that sufficiently private and stickable I don't know. Improbable, I concede.
    17 is a huge number to break ranks.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    surby said:

    Nigelb said:

    Comey is probably doing Trump more good than harm.

    The Dems seem to have one eye on the possibility of Pence being their opponent come the next presidential election...
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/19/pence-lgbt-human-rights-536927

    Yes. Pence and the highly ambitious Nikki Haley.
    Shadsy just quoted Haley at 20/1 for the GOP nominee. I think that's way too short. For her to get it, she'd need:

    1. To resign her post, challenge Trump, and win. Or
    2. For Pence to go as VP, and then for her to do a Gerald Ford. Or
    3. For Trump to opt to not stand, and for her to win the open vacancy. Or
    4. For Trump to go midterm and for Pence either to not stand or for her to challenge him for the nomination and win.

    None of those seem at all likely - but then I rate Trump's survival chances much higher than the market does.

    I did think she'd have been a good VP pick and still think he missed a trick there - but I don't think he likes powerful women around him.
    Pence looks like the very clear fav non-Trump option (obviously all the more so if Trump goes), assuming he doesn't get personally implicated in any Mueller stuff.
    Pence inherits if Trump is ousted but if, as seems likely, he simply agrees not to stand for a second term then any number of hats will be thrown into the ring. It is not as if Pence has done anything of note before or since. He is ex officio favourite but there is no obvious enthusiasm for the man.
    "As seems likely"?!

    Do you want to elaborate on that one? Any president who doesn't seek re-election lame-ducks himself for 18 months, which is more than half his remaining term.
    Lame duck considerations don't come into it since Trump is already not working with GOP congress on anything of note. Because the GOP mainstream wants Trump out but will not want to hand his scalp to a Democrat-led impeachment, the most likely outcome is for the men in grey suits to make him an offer he can't refuse: just don't run again.

    There is no such offer they could make. He ran against them last time, without the benefit of incumbency, and won. Why would someone with his ego think that he couldn't do it again, no matter what they say.

    He'd be more likely to pocket the offer and then run anyway, citing the deal as evidence of his ability.
    They can offer not to impeach him.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Sean_F said:

    There is no such offer they could make. He ran against them last time, without the benefit of incumbency, and won. Why would someone with his ego think that he couldn't do it again, no matter what they say.

    He'd be more likely to pocket the offer and then run anyway, citing the deal as evidence of his ability.

    In the event of impeachment it would only need about 17 GOP Senators to convict. They could perhaps make a deal with him, though how they make that sufficiently private and stickable I don't know. Improbable, I concede.
    17 is a huge number to break ranks.
    It would have to be behind the scenes. And the impeachment articles would need to have serious merit in the first place. And it probably wouldn't do the GOP much good anyway...
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,046
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    I already dislike the heat.

    Also, the Cilic bet is likely null and void as Raonic selfishly pulled out with injury rather than getting beaten 6-0, 6-0 like a real man would have.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,601
    edited April 2018
    BREAKING: UK (=London) temperatures top 28C in hottest April day since 1949

    London hotter than Islamabad, Rio, Havana, Miami, Nairobi, Brisbane, Rome and Madrid (those last two raising the Q where the warm air is coming from...)
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: UK (=London) temperatures top 28C in hottest April day since 1949

    London hotter than Islamabad, Rio, Havana, Miami, Rome and Madrid (those last two raising the Q where the warm air is coming from...)


    Hooray. Brexit is already a success.

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,046
    Mr. B2, between May and Corbyn there's an awful lot of hot air being produced in London.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,283

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    I already dislike the heat.

    Also, the Cilic bet is likely null and void as Raonic selfishly pulled out with injury rather than getting beaten 6-0, 6-0 like a real man would have.

    Feel sorry for me: I'm planning to do a 15-20 mile walk tomorrow.

    A day for my Tilley hat, a 3-litre water bottle and oodles of suntan lotion, methinks.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,046
    Mr. Jessop, I'm sure you'll be fine. Be a bit cooler than today.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    The US Open will only be broadcast on the internet in the United Kingdom and Ireland because Amazon has secured the rights to the Grand Slam event.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/tennis/43825337
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,465

    Sean_F said:

    There is no such offer they could make. He ran against them last time, without the benefit of incumbency, and won. Why would someone with his ego think that he couldn't do it again, no matter what they say.

    He'd be more likely to pocket the offer and then run anyway, citing the deal as evidence of his ability.

    In the event of impeachment it would only need about 17 GOP Senators to convict. They could perhaps make a deal with him, though how they make that sufficiently private and stickable I don't know. Improbable, I concede.
    17 is a huge number to break ranks.
    It would have to be behind the scenes. And the impeachment articles would need to have serious merit in the first place. And it probably wouldn't do the GOP much good anyway...
    Which begs the question as to whether they could offer the deal in the first place.

    It took Nixon to be staring down the barrel for him to resign. Trump - not a natural politician but someone prone to doubling down when under fire - would be more likely to force a vote than pre-emptively resign, in my opinion.

    If there were articles of impeachment that would likely carry the Senate, the GOP wouldn't need to make an offer - indeed, it'd be counterproductive to do so: they never wanted him in the first place and could remove themselves of his taint if there was sufficient evidence to wash their hands of him. On the other hand, if there's not the evidence needed, Trump wouldn't take the offer, which'd essentially be based on bluff.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    The ECB today announced shock proposals for a new format of the game when it was revealed their new eight-team tournament in 2020 will be played over 100 balls per innings and not Twenty20.

    The competition will see teams bowl 15 traditional six-ball overs but with another ten balls to be used tactically in the innings. Further details are still to be decided.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/04/19/ecbs-new-competition-will-100-balls-per-innings-not-t20/
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Sean_F said:

    There is no such offer they could make. He ran against them last time, without the benefit of incumbency, and won. Why would someone with his ego think that he couldn't do it again, no matter what they say.

    He'd be more likely to pocket the offer and then run anyway, citing the deal as evidence of his ability.

    In the event of impeachment it would only need about 17 GOP Senators to convict. They could perhaps make a deal with him, though how they make that sufficiently private and stickable I don't know. Improbable, I concede.
    17 is a huge number to break ranks.
    It would have to be behind the scenes. And the impeachment articles would need to have serious merit in the first place. And it probably wouldn't do the GOP much good anyway...
    Which begs the question as to whether they could offer the deal in the first place.

    It took Nixon to be staring down the barrel for him to resign. Trump - not a natural politician but someone prone to doubling down when under fire - would be more likely to force a vote than pre-emptively resign, in my opinion.

    If there were articles of impeachment that would likely carry the Senate, the GOP wouldn't need to make an offer - indeed, it'd be counterproductive to do so: they never wanted him in the first place and could remove themselves of his taint if there was sufficient evidence to wash their hands of him. On the other hand, if there's not the evidence needed, Trump wouldn't take the offer, which'd essentially be based on bluff.
    My guess is that in this scenario they would prefer him to step down rather than convict. That might prove not to be the case. (Some may also be thinking about their own chances in 2020!)
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,046
    edited April 2018
    28.8C at Northolt - the April temperature record (29.4C) is close to going!
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    murali_s said:

    28.8C at Northolt - the April temperature record (29.4C) is close to going!

    84 Fahrenheit - I am comfortable in C up to 25 C = 75 F, above that F works better for me.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,108
    Sunset in Dubai, only 31°C but we’re hoping for 27° as the overnight low...
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294

    The ECB today announced shock proposals for a new format of the game when it was revealed their new eight-team tournament in 2020 will be played over 100 balls per innings and not Twenty20.

    The competition will see teams bowl 15 traditional six-ball overs but with another ten balls to be used tactically in the innings. Further details are still to be decided.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/04/19/ecbs-new-competition-will-100-balls-per-innings-not-t20/

    Thank goodness. I'm sure I'm not the only PBer who has been praying that T20 would lose twenty balls an innings.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,954

    I am ashamed to say that I voted in the referendum on the same side as Alex Salmond, Eddie Izzard, Owen Jones, Polly Toynbee and Caroline Lucas.

    (well probably, anyway).

    You don't think Alex might have done a Malc and voted LEAVE in the hope it'd break-up the UK? :D
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,193

    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: UK (=London) temperatures top 28C in hottest April day since 1949

    London hotter than Islamabad, Rio, Havana, Miami, Rome and Madrid (those last two raising the Q where the warm air is coming from...)


    Hooray. Brexit is already a success.

    Hooray, UK to be spring sunshine break destination of choice.

    (Hang on, does that mean we have to be inundated by Johnny Foreigner?)
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    (Hang on, does that mean we have to be inundated by Johnny Foreigner?)

    Clearly you haven't visited London recently!
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255
    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,046
    Mr. P, does the 48% who voted Remain indicate they support Gerry Adams?

    The vote was on the matter at hand, to stay or to leave. Remain scarcely campaigned at all, it just veered from overblown fear-mongering, through complacency, to pointing at Farage and saying "Urgh! You're not voting like *him*, are you?".

    And they're still doing the last of these with nonsense like "Not all those who voted Leave are racists, but all racists voted Leave." Yet they seem unwilling to pronounce themselves as in favour of Sinn Fein, or stand as proud Blairites.

    Lastly, pointing at people and declaiming them as racist to try and shut down a debate is precisely the kind of bullshit that leads to 'culturally sensitive' attitudes from the authorities, as we saw in Rotherham. People should know better.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    Thank you for the info on Robert Fisk.I had heard his name from the Independent and middle East reporting .However was not aware about concerns.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    You should see if you can entice a hedgehog to take up residence. They love snails and slugs. They aren't very keen on cats, though.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255

    surby said:

    Nigelb said:

    Comey is probably doing Trump more good than harm.

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of his treatment, it is not a good look for a former FBI director - and potential witness in the Mueller investigation - to be doing a trash talking book tour.
    He was politically naive to the point of idiocy in his treatment of the Clinton emails days before the election, and doesn't appear to have acquired much wisdom since then.

    The Cohen raid is a far greater threat to Trump.

    The Dems seem to have one eye on the possibility of Pence being their opponent come the next presidential election...
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/19/pence-lgbt-human-rights-536927

    Yes. Pence and the highly ambitious Nikki Haley.
    Shadsy just quoted Haley at 20/1 for the GOP nominee. I think that's way too short. For her to get it, she'd need:

    1. To resign her post, challenge Trump, and win. Or
    2. For Pence to go as VP, and then for her to do a Gerald Ford. Or
    3. For Trump to opt to not stand, and for her to win the open vacancy. Or
    4. For Trump to go midterm and for Pence either to not stand or for her to challenge him for the nomination and win.

    None of those seem at all likely - but then I rate Trump's survival chances much higher than the market does.

    I did think she'd have been a good VP pick and still think he missed a trick there - but I don't think he likes powerful women around him.
    re: item 1. Given Trump's record, she'll be sacked within 12 months, so will be free to start a PAC etc etc.
    That's a fair point and (1) should really be subdivided into 'gets sacked' and 'resigns'. However, 12 months is close to the limit. The campaigns will need to be in place in something like 16 months' time, at the latest.

    Actually, I don't think her chances of being sacked are all that high: Trump sacks those closest to him. Haley - in New York - is both out of sight and, given Trump's interest in the UN, out of mind.
    And if she says something he doesn't like, he blames the person who he thinks wrote it for her.

    https://twitter.com/HelenKennedy/status/986462619749011457
    Reading the article, we need a new word that goes beyond 'omnishambles'.
    We have one: FUBAR.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    The ECB today announced shock proposals for a new format of the game when it was revealed their new eight-team tournament in 2020 will be played over 100 balls per innings and not Twenty20.

    The competition will see teams bowl 15 traditional six-ball overs but with another ten balls to be used tactically in the innings. Further details are still to be decided.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/04/19/ecbs-new-competition-will-100-balls-per-innings-not-t20/

    When did the European Central Bank take over running the cricket?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,339
    Jesus Christ, it is like something the teams in Scrapheap challenge would come up with.

    World's biggest plane with 2 cockpits, 6 jet engines and a wingspan longer than a football field will take off within MONTHS

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5633239/Stratolaunch-biggest-plane-built-MONTHS.html
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255
    edited April 2018

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    You should see if you can entice a hedgehog to take up residence. They love snails and slugs. They aren't very keen on cats, though.
    I would love a hedgehog. I have dark undisturbed corners for them. Occasionally I get toads. But hedgehogs need to move from garden to garden and my neighbours on one side have a tidy “outdoor room” with an artificial lawn (I know, it’s ghastly, vulgar and not at all “green”) and won’t countenance any sort of wildlife friendly arrangement. Sigh.

    When I am Dictatrix, artificial lawns will be on my “Taxed at 5000%” list, even ahead of chocolate sprinkles on cappuccinos.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    If you don't have a pond, maybe consider creating one. Frogs and toads love to gobble up slugs.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255
    Yorkcity said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    Thank you for the info on Robert Fisk.I had heard his name from the Independent and middle East reporting .However was not aware about concerns.
    He is not neutral and can write with passion but is unreliable as a single source, unless independently verified by others.

    He has given his name to the phrase “To fisk” defined as:-

    To criticize and refute (a published article or argument), especially in point-by-point or line-by-line fashion on a blog. v.intr. To fisk an article or argument. [After Robert Fisk (born 1946), British journalist, some of whose controversial reports on the Middle East were criticized on blogs.]

    Osama Bin Laden is also reported to have praised his “neutral” reporting. Fisk is one of the few journalists who managed to see and interview him in Afghanistan, I believe.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,465

    Jesus Christ, it is like something the teams in Scrapheap challenge would come up with.

    World's biggest plane with 2 cockpits, 6 jet engines and a wingspan longer than a football field will take off within MONTHS

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5633239/Stratolaunch-biggest-plane-built-MONTHS.html

    There's going to be an awful lot of stress on that central connecting section.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    You should see if you can entice a hedgehog to take up residence. They love snails and slugs. They aren't very keen on cats, though.
    I would love a hedgehog. I have dark undisturbed corners for them. Occasionally I get toads. But hedgehogs need to move from garden to garden and my neighbours on one side have a tidy “outdoor room” with an artificial lawn (I know, it’s ghastly, vulgar and not at all “green”) and won’t countenance any sort of wildlife friendly arrangement. Sigh.

    When I am Dictatrix, artificial lawns will be on my “Taxed at 5000%” list, even ahead of chocolate sprinkles on cappuccinos.
    ... and outdoor patio heaters?
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    If you don't have a pond, maybe consider creating one. Frogs and toads love to gobble up slugs.
    Not enough space. Alas.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    If you don't have a pond, maybe consider creating one. Frogs and toads love to gobble up slugs.
    Not enough space. Alas.
    We also get dragonflies, which are beautiful. The mosquitos are less so.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255
    edited April 2018

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    You should see if you can entice a hedgehog to take up residence. They love snails and slugs. They aren't very keen on cats, though.
    I would love a hedgehog. I have dark undisturbed corners for them. Occasionally I get toads. But hedgehogs need to move from garden to garden and my neighbours on one side have a tidy “outdoor room” with an artificial lawn (I know, it’s ghastly, vulgar and not at all “green”) and won’t countenance any sort of wildlife friendly arrangement. Sigh.

    When I am Dictatrix, artificial lawns will be on my “Taxed at 5000%” list, even ahead of chocolate sprinkles on cappuccinos.
    ... and outdoor patio heaters?
    Yes. What’s wrong with cardigans?

    Everyone would also be required to have a water butt and to keep proper front gardens, with plants in them. Not the frightful eyesores most people have.

    I only have a small front garden and still manage to fit in a betula tree, 4 magnolias, hostas and agapanthus, an alpine garden, window boxes and a front hedge of Christmas box interspersed with spring bulbs. Oh and a coal bunker, 4 bins and room for bicycles. Plus a slate birds nest and bird feeders.

    The built environment would be so much nicer if people took a bit of care over their front gardens, which are in public space. There was an RHS campaign last year about “Greening” Britain
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294

    The ECB today announced shock proposals for a new format of the game when it was revealed their new eight-team tournament in 2020 will be played over 100 balls per innings and not Twenty20.

    The competition will see teams bowl 15 traditional six-ball overs but with another ten balls to be used tactically in the innings. Further details are still to be decided.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/04/19/ecbs-new-competition-will-100-balls-per-innings-not-t20/

    When did the European Central Bank take over running the cricket?
    Brilliant idea: if we can get the ECB involved in the minutia of future cricket tournaments, we can get them away from messing up the Eurozone economy.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    I don’t know whether I should say this on here, but here goes.

    When I was on the tube today there was this guy who was basically being antisemitic saying (about May) that a Jewish (insert expletive beginning with a b here) was running the UK. I don’t whether anyone else has seen this kind of open antisemitism but it seriously alarmed me.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255
    Some more information about Fisk and The Independent - http://honestreporting.com/independent-admits-robert-fisk-story-was-false/
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,294
    Cyclefree said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Well, I have been - and indeed still am - enjoying my garden and the glorious weather today. Everything is sprouting and flowering and growing and the cats are monopolisingthe shady corners.

    Snails, alas, are starting to make an appearance so I will need to embark on a ferocious genocide of the little horrors before they eat my canna and hostas.

    If only cats could be trained to eat snails and slugs. Bit of an oversight, that, by Mother Nature.

    Re Robert Fisk: I woukd be wary of relying on his articles. He makes a lot of factual errors (in his books, for instance) and there have long been concerns amongst other journalists who have lived and worked in the Middle East about the accuracy of his stories.

    Thank you for the info on Robert Fisk.I had heard his name from the Independent and middle East reporting .However was not aware about concerns.
    He is not neutral and can write with passion but is unreliable as a single source, unless independently verified by others.

    He has given his name to the phrase “To fisk” defined as:-

    To criticize and refute (a published article or argument), especially in point-by-point or line-by-line fashion on a blog. v.intr. To fisk an article or argument. [After Robert Fisk (born 1946), British journalist, some of whose controversial reports on the Middle East were criticized on blogs.]

    Osama Bin Laden is also reported to have praised his “neutral” reporting. Fisk is one of the few journalists who managed to see and interview him in Afghanistan, I believe.
    A friend of my gave me his Pity the Nation (about the Palestinians), but I must confess I haven't actually read it.
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    I don’t know whether I should say this on here, but here goes.

    When I was on the tube today there was this guy who was basically being antisemitic saying (about May) that a Jewish (insert expletive beginning with a b here) was running the UK. I don’t whether anyone else has seen this kind of open antisemitism but it seriously alarmed me.

    Why shouldn't you say it?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,329
    rcs1000 said:

    The ECB today announced shock proposals for a new format of the game when it was revealed their new eight-team tournament in 2020 will be played over 100 balls per innings and not Twenty20.

    The competition will see teams bowl 15 traditional six-ball overs but with another ten balls to be used tactically in the innings. Further details are still to be decided.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2018/04/19/ecbs-new-competition-will-100-balls-per-innings-not-t20/

    When did the European Central Bank take over running the cricket?
    Brilliant idea: if we can get the ECB involved in the minutia of future cricket tournaments, we can get them away from messing up the Eurozone economy.
    They could arrange some quantitative sleazing for the Ashes tour.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,255

    I don’t know whether I should say this on here, but here goes.

    When I was on the tube today there was this guy who was basically being antisemitic saying (about May) that a Jewish (insert expletive beginning with a b here) was running the UK. I don’t whether anyone else has seen this kind of open antisemitism but it seriously alarmed me.

    It’s probably not anti-semitic in the classic sense but alarming nonetheless that someone should feel free to view “Jewish” as a pejorative, use “bitch” about a woman in power and feel it ok to say it in public.

    There have also been cases of people racially abusing black people on public transport.

    As a matter of interest, how did others react and what type of guy was he? Smelly loon or apparently respectable? Old? Young?
This discussion has been closed.