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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As Labour prepares for its conference today’s YouGov report

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    RedRag1 said:

    tim said:

    RedRag1 said:

    Anyon know what the retails sales figure for the UK that were released to day. Usually they are splashed across here the minute they are announced.

    "Retail sales volumes fell 0.9% in August according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) - a surprise for analysts who had expected a rise of around 0.4%."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24156664

    Lots of weather and Olympics related stuff in there, but no splash of them over here from the usual suspects as you say.
    Now I see why they were given the bums rush.
    Perhaps more people can afford to go on a foreign holiday this year, so they're spending less at home?
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351

    I had assumed that Ed would, despite himself, manage a small majority, but with the economy creaking into life, it's Cameron's to lose. Against an amenable doormat and a rabbit caught in the headlights, only an incompetent fop could contrive to lose.

    Unless the economy goes into decline.

    As a NOTA, I may have to hold my nose and vote LD (or as Shaun's a shoe-in, vote Ukip just to annoy the media).

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    This seems to be the consensus view from Twitter hacks http://order-order.com/2013/09/19/labour-interim-union-report-is-clueless/

    "Labour’s Lord Collins of Smeargate, who is charged with the unenviable task of drawing up exactly how the party will smash the union link, has published his interim report on the subject.

    It has no firm conclusions, no recommendations and appears to be just a list of questions.

    Collins asks members for so much feedback and so many contributions that it reads like he has bitten off more than he can chew."
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    "King Willem-Alexander delivered a message to the Dutch people from the government in a nationally televised address: the welfare state of the 20th century is gone.

    In its place a "participation society" is emerging, in which people must take responsibility for their own future and create their own social and financial safety nets, with less help from the national government. "

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-king-willemalexander-declares-the-end-of-the-welfare-state-8822421.html
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    But 5.36% of 2010 Lab voters are planning to vote Tory

    This is the "swingback" the Tories need - not swingback from the election, but from 2008/9 ["before Cameron and Osborne blew it" © Tim 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013].

    There's a reasonable case for this swingback based around fear of the unknown (a dual effect here, it was working against Cameron in 2010 and will work against Ed in 2015).

    Against that the swings involving the minor parties are probably not going to be favourable for the Tories.
  • Options
    Indeed, Mr. Jessop.

    I do not think Raikkonen will crash his Ferrari to help Alonso.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Plato said:

    RT @DJack_Journo: Fancy that! Ed Miliband has richest Labour top table ever with 20 millionaires, writes @tnewtondunn ow.ly/i/3bIh9

    "The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”

    Orwell predicts the future of the Labour party and, sadly, all our politics in 1945.

    It's more about house price inflation.

    Clearly that is a factor SO but the bigger picture is that politics has become a middle class, aspirational career for PPEs on the make. Our politics is drawn from a small and increasingly unrepresentative portion of our population who make themselves look ridiculous when they try to pretend they are one of us.

    The tories always had tendencies that way although you think back to Maggie and John Major who weren't. For Labour it is unquestionably a major part of the Blair legacy. If our politics is to engage more people it needs a broader range of voice.
    The Guardian had an article about this. Less than 350,000 houses are estimated to be worth £1 million. That's about 1.4% of the 25 million houses in the UK.

    If middle class now means the top 1% of society then words have begun to lost their meaning - something Orwell also wrote about.

    That 350,000 is very concentrated in London:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/counties/html/county39.stm#table

    If you look at the average cost of a detached house in London, there are 12 boroughs where it is £1 million plus.

    And there are a couple where £1m only buys a 2 bedroom flat!
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited September 2013
    Brookes cartoon is brilliant Laugh now, but Ed Miliband and Ed Balls could soon be running the country | @jgforsyth via @spectator http://specc.ie/1drzvsY

    "A Tory MP bobbed up at Prime Minister’s Questions recently to ask David Cameron whether he was ‘aware that 4 per cent of people believe that Elvis is still alive? That is double the number, we hear today, who think that Edward Miliband is a natural leader?’ The Tory benches tittered, Labour MPs slumped into their seats as if this was a depressingly fair point, and the Labour leader himself tried not to look too hurt.

    The exchange reflected a Westminster consensus that the idea of Miliband as prime minister is risible. His aestas horribilis has reinforced the view among many in the political class that he simply doesn’t have what it takes to be leader. Those supporters of his brother David who greeted his victory by bitterly declaring that Labour had just lost the next election have been out in force in recent weeks.

    Perhaps the person in SW1 least affected by all this is Miliband himself. He is used to being written off by the pundits. His friends love to point out that these self same soothsayers were convinced that his brother would beat him to the leadership. He says he has learned to take opinion polls ‘with a pinch of sugar’
  • Options

    But 5.36% of 2010 Lab voters are planning to vote Tory

    This is the "swingback" the Tories need - not swingback from the election, but from 2008/9 ["before Cameron and Osborne blew it" © Tim 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013].

    There's a reasonable case for this swingback based around fear of the unknown (a dual effect here, it was working against Cameron in 2010 and will work against Ed in 2015).

    Against that the swings involving the minor parties are probably not going to be favourable for the Tories.
    Indeed, what I'm trying to do is to get to the bottom of this conundrum I posted last night

    The Tories are back up their GE score

    UKIP are 9% up on their GE score

    Labour are up 7% on their GE Score

    But the Lib Dems are down 13% on their GE score

    If the Tories are back to their GE score, then you'd expect UKIP to be back down close to their 3% GE score, as we're told UKIP only hurts the Tories.
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    OT Janet Yellen looks like a shoo-in for Fed Chairman. The White House has leaked her name and if they back off now they're going to look sexist, not to mention upsetting Elizabeth Warren which is a generally unwise thing to do.

    Maybe some value here:
    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/us-federal-reserve
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    tim said:

    I wouldn't take an analysis based on 8 voters in a sample too seriously

    I'm not. But the notion that there might be a net direct movement from Lab to Con clearly needs a proper airing. If we accept that LDs have defected to Labour and Tories have defected to UKIP, then squaring the, um, triangle, requires Labour defections to the Tories.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351

    "Like rabbits popping out of the hole, wondering why the last rabbit never came back, after that strange banging noise. "

    I see Sean's on form today.
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    SeanT said:

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?

    You'll get a billion hits if you write about it anyway.
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    But 5.36% of 2010 Lab voters are planning to vote Tory

    This is the "swingback" the Tories need - not swingback from the election, but from 2008/9 ["before Cameron and Osborne blew it" © Tim 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013].

    There's a reasonable case for this swingback based around fear of the unknown (a dual effect here, it was working against Cameron in 2010 and will work against Ed in 2015).

    Against that the swings involving the minor parties are probably not going to be favourable for the Tories.
    Indeed, what I'm trying to do is to get to the bottom of this conundrum I posted last night

    The Tories are back up their GE score

    UKIP are 9% up on their GE score

    Labour are up 7% on their GE Score

    But the Lib Dems are down 13% on their GE score

    If the Tories are back to their GE score, then you'd expect UKIP to be back down close to their 3% GE score, as we're told UKIP only hurts the Tories.
    As I posted last night, there is probably some Labour-UKIP movement offset by LD-Lab movement. The Ashcroft marginals poll suggested some Lab-UKIP movement amongst pensioners.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,487
    edited September 2013

    But 5.36% of 2010 Lab voters are planning to vote Tory

    This is the "swingback" the Tories need - not swingback from the election, but from 2008/9 ["before Cameron and Osborne blew it" © Tim 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013].

    There's a reasonable case for this swingback based around fear of the unknown (a dual effect here, it was working against Cameron in 2010 and will work against Ed in 2015).

    Against that the swings involving the minor parties are probably not going to be favourable for the Tories.
    Indeed, what I'm trying to do is to get to the bottom of this conundrum I posted last night

    The Tories are back up their GE score

    UKIP are 9% up on their GE score

    Labour are up 7% on their GE Score

    But the Lib Dems are down 13% on their GE score

    If the Tories are back to their GE score, then you'd expect UKIP to be back down close to their 3% GE score, as we're told UKIP only hurts the Tories.
    As I posted last night, there is probably some Labour-UKIP movement offset by LD-Lab movement. The Ashcroft marginals poll suggested some Lab-UKIP movement amongst pensioners.
    Yes I read that, I wonder if we're seeing people who didn't vote in 2010 distorting the polling, the return of the None of the Above party?

    Somebody do a large poll of 2010 Labour voters please.

    I wonder if the bigoted woman is representative?

    In an interview, to be broadcast on Tuesday on Radio 4’s One to One programme, Gillian Duffy says she remains loyal to the party but is less than impressed with its current leader.

    Asked whether Mr Miliband could make it to Downing Street, she says: “He’s going to have to pull his finger out, isn’t he, and get moving, get some policies out. They’ll be very lucky if they get in, Labour.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andy-mcsmiths-lib-dems-conference-diary-no-bullying-but-lib-dems-talk-around-the-subject-8817993.html
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    OT - but whilst re-watching all of Supernatural, I noticed this on the Wiki page

    While original scores are used throughout episodes, another important aspect of the series' music is classic rock, over which creator Eric Kripke threatened to quit when the network would not allow its inclusion. Most of the songs are from Kripke's private collection, although one of his favorite bands—Led Zeppelin—is too expensive to use.

    Led Zep are too expensive? Sheesh. ACDC get many plays - how bizarre.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAwMDIo9wKI
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    FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited September 2013
    Financier said:

    OT

    @Plato

    Fracking on ITV tonight at 7.30pm-8pm.
    May be a bit superficial though.

    Also Mail 4 U

    Are you two up to something?! A secret affair?

    If anyone wants an affair with me please let me know in advance, I need eight weeks to get into shape.

    Incidentally, I actually found today's Dan Hodges article interesting. Please make me a PB Hdoges for the day. If current Blairites and Brownites did get together and fight off the loony left then the Tories would be in trouble. Sadly for ideologues, the middle ground is where electoral success sits. I sincerely hope Labour choose a McCluskey 2015 manifesto over a clever, devious, Campbell-Mandelson-Brown-Blair one.

  • Options
    tim said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just had a very curious, articulate email from a "Sikh historian", following my Teleblog about the burka.

    He says it is common knowledge that Muslim girls, at his son's school, put earphones on under the burqa/niqab, for exams, allowing them to cheat - as they listen to cribbed notes. Presumably no teacher would ever challenge them or frisk them.

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?


    How many schoolgirls wear

    a.The Burka.
    B.The Niqab.

    I assume you have a rough idea.
    What does that have to do with it? If Sean's correspondent is correct then it means that those individuals concerned are using their religious rights to cheat. Whether it is a few or many doesn't matter.

    But of course as always you weren't actually interested in addressing the point raised, only in raising a spurious question to sidetrack the conversation.
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    I do not like the concept of average polls for a month, except on a firm by firm basis.

    YouGov have around 21/22 polls a month, whilst Populus would have around 9, thus on a simple average basis Populus Polls are worth less than half of YouGov Polls (as what you are averaging includes each particular firms methodological approach which may give rise to permament differences). Other polling firms would be worth significantly less.
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    tim said:
    So of Labour's 2010 vote 2% of them plan to vote Conservative, and 6% of them plan to vote UKIP.
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    I do not like the concept of average polls for a month, except on a firm by firm basis.

    YouGov have around 21/22 polls a month, whilst Populus would have around 9, thus on a simple average basis Populus Polls are worth less than half of YouGov Polls (as what you are averaging includes each particular firms methodological approach which may give rise to permament differences). Other polling firms would be worth significantly less.

    If I didn't have a meeting with Mr Balloch and co at 1pm, I'd be doing the standard deviation, month by month of the yougov polls this year.
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    tim said:

    tim said:
    So of Labour's 2010 vote 2% of them plan to vote Conservative, and 6% of them plan to vote UKIP.
    In marginal seats it seems so.

    And the figures for the Tories are 6% Labour 17% UKIP
    For Lib Dems 34% Labour, 10% Tory, 9% UKIP



    Both those parties are in government, must be alarming for Labour that a chunk of their core vote, which is the 2010 voters, are going elsewhere.
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    SeanT said:

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?

    Why the "or"? Generally lots of people have heard urban myths - and believe them too - without that affecting the veracity or otherwise of the tale.
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    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:
    So of Labour's 2010 vote 2% of them plan to vote Conservative, and 6% of them plan to vote UKIP.
    In marginal seats it seems so.

    And the figures for the Tories are 6% Labour 17% UKIP
    For Lib Dems 34% Labour, 10% Tory, 9% UKIP



    Both those parties are in government, must be alarming for Labour that a chunk of their core vote, which is the 2010 voters, are going elsewhere.
    If the Tories lose 17% to UKIP and Labour gain 34% of Lib Dems then the Tories are f**ked, tragic isn't it.
    Well depends if Dave can win them back and Ed can't.

    Remember Ed is toxic.

    More disliked than the Tory party.

    How did he manage that ?

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    antifrank said:

    Stuart Dickson unaccountably left out this bit of Scottish referendum news:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/18/scottish-independence-spending-cut-warning-thinktank

    "Alex Salmond's hopes of inspiring Scotland's voters to embrace independence a year before the 2014 referendum suffered a blow when a thinktank warned he would need to cut billions from public spending immediately after leaving the UK in order to balance the books.

    The report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies said Scotland's high levels of public spending – 17% above the UK average at £7,932 – would neutralise the benefits of North Sea oil and gas revenues flowing into an independent Scotland's treasury, leaving it facing a 15% cut in spending.

    If Scotland were to meet the current targets to cut its debts, it would need spending cuts of £2.4bn over the first two years after elections to an independent parliament in 2016.

    If Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR) projections about falling oil revenues were correct, it would face further cuts of £3.5bn."

    If the No side thinks that it is going to win this campaign by labelling us as too wee, too poor and too stupid then it has a bit of a shock awaiting it on 19 September next year.
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    tim said:

    tim said:
    So of Labour's 2010 vote 2% of them plan to vote Conservative, and 6% of them plan to vote UKIP.
    In marginal seats it seems so.

    And the figures for the Tories are 6% Labour 17% UKIP
    For Lib Dems 34% Labour, 10% Tory, 9% UKIP



    No those percentages are incorrect , the correct figures are those in Table 2 not Table 3 . Probably the most significant figures are those currently saying Don't Know 14% of 2010 Conservatives , 11% of 2010 Labour voters and 22% of 2010 LD voters
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    Football: seems a winter World Cup is now planned:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24160879

    Doesn't that fundamentally alter things? Not in terms of domestic football leagues (although it does), but regarding the bidding process. They've awarded it to Qatar based on summer games, but then changed it to winter. Is that fair?

    "Earlier this week, Australia's soccer chief Frank Lowy said his country's Football Federation (FFA) may seek compensation if the 2022 World Cup is switched to the winter after his country lost out to Qatar. "
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    tim said:

    In marginal seats it seems so.

    And the figures for the Tories are 6% Labour 17% UKIP
    For Lib Dems 34% Labour, 10% Tory, 9% UKIP

    :Eeich:

    God, how painful to listen to castratos. I feel sorry for higher audial creatures (say, cats)....

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    tim said:

    tim said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just had a very curious, articulate email from a "Sikh historian", following my Teleblog about the burka.

    He says it is common knowledge that Muslim girls, at his son's school, put earphones on under the burqa/niqab, for exams, allowing them to cheat - as they listen to cribbed notes. Presumably no teacher would ever challenge them or frisk them.

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?


    How many schoolgirls wear

    a.The Burka.
    B.The Niqab.

    I assume you have a rough idea.
    What does that have to do with it? If Sean's correspondent is correct then it means that those individuals concerned are using their religious rights to cheat. Whether it is a few or many doesn't matter.

    But of course as always you weren't actually interested in addressing the point raised, only in raising a spurious question to sidetrack the conversation.
    Well a good start point with these stories is usually to find out whether there are any girls/how many girls are wearing a Burka or Niqab in the school in question.



    Only if your only interest is in rubbishing the story because it doesn't match your own agenda. Which of course is what drives every post you make here.
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    FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited September 2013


    If the No side thinks that it is going to win this campaign by labelling us as too wee, too poor and too stupid then it has a bit of a shock awaiting it on 19 September next year.

    It is labeling and no-one here is questioning Sweden's economic stability (thanks to Herr Hitler). What is your point son...?
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    antifrank said:

    Stuart Dickson unaccountably left out this bit of Scottish referendum news:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/18/scottish-independence-spending-cut-warning-thinktank

    "Alex Salmond's hopes of inspiring Scotland's voters to embrace independence a year before the 2014 referendum suffered a blow when a thinktank warned he would need to cut billions from public spending immediately after leaving the UK in order to balance the books.

    The report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies said Scotland's high levels of public spending – 17% above the UK average at £7,932 – would neutralise the benefits of North Sea oil and gas revenues flowing into an independent Scotland's treasury, leaving it facing a 15% cut in spending.

    If Scotland were to meet the current targets to cut its debts, it would need spending cuts of £2.4bn over the first two years after elections to an independent parliament in 2016.

    If Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR) projections about falling oil revenues were correct, it would face further cuts of £3.5bn."

    If the No side thinks that it is going to win this campaign by labelling us as too wee, too poor and too stupid then it has a bit of a shock awaiting it on 19 September next year.
    http://www.ifs.org.uk/aboutIFS

    "Our goal at the Institute for Fiscal Studies is to promote effective economic and social policies by understanding better their impact on individuals, families, businesses and the government's finances. Our findings are based on rigorous analysis, detailed empirical evidence and in-depth institutional knowledge. We seek to communicate them effectively, to a wide range of audiences, thereby maximising their impact on policy both directly and by informing public debate."
  • Options


    If the No side thinks that it is going to win this campaign by labelling us as too wee, too poor and too stupid then it has a bit of a shock awaiting it on 19 September next year.

    It is labeling and no-one here is questioning Sweden's economic stabaility (thanks to Herr Hitler). What is your point son...?
    It is labelling (two Ls) in the UK, Fluffy - innit!
    Labeling with one L is an Americanism!
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    tim said:
    So of Labour's 2010 vote 2% of them plan to vote Conservative, and 6% of them plan to vote UKIP.
    To be fair, anyone who was still voting Labour in 2010 after all that Brown had done was probably never going to vote Tory in a million years.

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    tim said:
    So of Labour's 2010 vote 2% of them plan to vote Conservative, and 6% of them plan to vote UKIP.
    To be fair, anyone who was still voting Labour in 2010 after all that Brown had done was probably never going to vote Tory in a million years.

    Yet apparently 1:20 are if another poster's stats are accurate!
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    JackW said:

    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?

    Don't be silly Jack.. the second that the vote is lost it'll be 'we never really wanted independence yet, will go for Devo-Max first'..
  • Options
    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just had a very curious, articulate email from a "Sikh historian", following my Teleblog about the burka.

    He says it is common knowledge that Muslim girls, at his son's school, put earphones on under the burqa/niqab, for exams, allowing them to cheat - as they listen to cribbed notes. Presumably no teacher would ever challenge them or frisk them.

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?


    How many schoolgirls wear

    a.The Burka.
    B.The Niqab.

    I assume you have a rough idea.
    What does that have to do with it? If Sean's correspondent is correct then it means that those individuals concerned are using their religious rights to cheat. Whether it is a few or many doesn't matter.

    But of course as always you weren't actually interested in addressing the point raised, only in raising a spurious question to sidetrack the conversation.
    Well a good start point with these stories is usually to find out whether there are any girls/how many girls are wearing a Burka or Niqab in the school in question.



    Only if your only interest is in rubbishing the story because it doesn't match your own agenda. Which of course is what drives every post you make here.
    And your interest is to have a pop at me with no interest in the story,obviously.
    Usually these "they banned Christmas" stories fall apart on inspection, but I'm sure you'll locate the school for us and tell us how many girls wear the Niqab or Burka won't you, seeker of truth.

    No because I have no need to. My only interest is in pointing out your usual troll activities so you don't continue to get away with your smears and lies at every opportunity. Consider me less a seeker of truth and more a seeker of your hypocrisy. To be fair the latter is far easier to locate than the former so it is not a difficult task I have set myself.
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    Finally conclusive proof that climate change is heating up the planet very quickly.

    The world cup in Qatar has had to be changed to a winter tournament , presumably because at the time of awarding the tournament FIFA muct have been satisfied that the temperature would be ok and now less than 2 year later believe it would be impossible to host a summer world cup. Its either climate change or corruption !!!
  • Options

    It is labeling and no-one here is questioning Sweden's economic stabaility (thanks to Herr Hitler). What is your point son...?

    It is labelling (two Ls) in the UK, Fluffy - innit!
    Labeling with one L is an Americanism!

    Dr P. You are correct. Shows how much I have become a part of global-logistic. Apologies....*

    * Most of your bar-codes are probably XSLTed by me, but that is another issue....
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?

    Don't be silly Jack.. the second that the vote is lost it'll be 'we never really wanted independence yet, will go for Devo-Max first'..
    Possibly but Devomax is supported by Labour LibDems and some Conservatives. Independence is an entirely different variety of malt whisky.

  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just had a very curious, articulate email from a "Sikh historian", following my Teleblog about the burka.

    He says it is common knowledge that Muslim girls, at his son's school, put earphones on under the burqa/niqab, for exams, allowing them to cheat - as they listen to cribbed notes. Presumably no teacher would ever challenge them or frisk them.

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?


    How many schoolgirls wear

    a.The Burka.
    B.The Niqab.

    I assume you have a rough idea.
    What does that have to do with it? If Sean's correspondent is correct then it means that those individuals concerned are using their religious rights to cheat. Whether it is a few or many doesn't matter.

    But of course as always you weren't actually interested in addressing the point raised, only in raising a spurious question to sidetrack the conversation.
    Well a good start point with these stories is usually to find out whether there are any girls/how many girls are wearing a Burka or Niqab in the school in question.



    Only if your only interest is in rubbishing the story because it doesn't match your own agenda. Which of course is what drives every post you make here.
    And your interest is to have a pop at me with no interest in the story,obviously.
    Usually these "they banned Christmas" stories fall apart on inspection, but I'm sure you'll locate the school for us and tell us how many girls wear the Niqab or Burka won't you, seeker of truth.

    Not this country thou.

    http://www.dnaindia.com/academy/1658507/report-should-burkha-clad-student-be-checked-before-exams

  • Options

    Football: seems a winter World Cup is now planned:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24160879

    Doesn't that fundamentally alter things? Not in terms of domestic football leagues (although it does), but regarding the bidding process. They've awarded it to Qatar based on summer games, but then changed it to winter. Is that fair?

    "Earlier this week, Australia's soccer chief Frank Lowy said his country's Football Federation (FFA) may seek compensation if the 2022 World Cup is switched to the winter after his country lost out to Qatar. "

    A total disgrace. I must not think about this too much because it will make me utterly furious.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,325
    edited September 2013



    It is labelling (two Ls) in the UK, Fluffy - innit!
    Labeling with one L is an Americanism!

    Dr P. You are correct. Shows how much I have become a part of global-logistic. Apologies....*

    * Most of your bar-codes are probably XSLTed by me, but that is another issue....
    Bar codes? What bar-codes? Expand, bitte!
  • Options

    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just had a very curious, articulate email from a "Sikh historian", following my Teleblog about the burka.

    He says it is common knowledge that Muslim girls, at his son's school, put earphones on under the burqa/niqab, for exams, allowing them to cheat - as they listen to cribbed notes. Presumably no teacher would ever challenge them or frisk them.

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?


    How many schoolgirls wear

    a.The Burka.
    B.The Niqab.

    I assume you have a rough idea.
    What does that have to do with it? If Sean's correspondent is correct then it means that those individuals concerned are using their religious rights to cheat. Whether it is a few or many doesn't matter.

    But of course as always you weren't actually interested in addressing the point raised, only in raising a spurious question to sidetrack the conversation.
    Well a good start point with these stories is usually to find out whether there are any girls/how many girls are wearing a Burka or Niqab in the school in question.



    Only if your only interest is in rubbishing the story because it doesn't match your own agenda. Which of course is what drives every post you make here.
    And your interest is to have a pop at me with no interest in the story,obviously.
    Usually these "they banned Christmas" stories fall apart on inspection, but I'm sure you'll locate the school for us and tell us how many girls wear the Niqab or Burka won't you, seeker of truth.

    No because I have no need to. My only interest is in pointing out your usual troll activities so you don't continue to get away with your smears and lies at every opportunity. Consider me less a seeker of truth and more a seeker of your hypocrisy. To be fair the latter is far easier to locate than the former so it is not a difficult task I have set myself.

    Not sure where the smear or lie is here. Can you point it out?

  • Options
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?

    Don't be silly Jack.. the second that the vote is lost it'll be 'we never really wanted independence yet, will go for Devo-Max first'..
    Possibly but Devomax is supported by Labour LibDems and some Conservatives. Independence is an entirely different variety of malt whisky.

    Scotland has a right to independence (if that is what it wants) . It does not have a right to devomax as this alters the conditions within the whole of the UK. Devomax is only for negotiation and maybe a vote for all the UK I would say
  • Options
    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Football: seems a winter World Cup is now planned:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24160879

    Doesn't that fundamentally alter things? Not in terms of domestic football leagues (although it does), but regarding the bidding process. They've awarded it to Qatar based on summer games, but then changed it to winter. Is that fair?

    "Earlier this week, Australia's soccer chief Frank Lowy said his country's Football Federation (FFA) may seek compensation if the 2022 World Cup is switched to the winter after his country lost out to Qatar. "

    A total disgrace. I must not think about this too much because it will make me utterly furious.
    A fiasco. The whole thing should be re tendered.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    What a strange poll,Labour with an 8 point unweighted lead, Tories leading amongst women and the young?! Also what good timing,just before the Brighton conference.I wonder if the reverse will apply before the Tory conference?

    Neck and neck for no reason, my disbelief needs a lot of suspension in order to take this one seriously. Good old Sun, always coming good for the Tories. Flexible weighting is a marvellous Crosbian tool. Where is Kellner in all this? However even this poll leaves Labour as the largest party.

    If even one 'PBTory' questions an opinion poll the left-wing posters go ape bl***y s**t - yet one lousy You Gov and there's 5 or 6 of them crying foul today. Get a grip lads - you're gonna need much more decorum if the go behind.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited September 2013
    Bobajob said:

    Football: seems a winter World Cup is now planned:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24160879

    Doesn't that fundamentally alter things? Not in terms of domestic football leagues (although it does), but regarding the bidding process. They've awarded it to Qatar based on summer games, but then changed it to winter. Is that fair?

    "Earlier this week, Australia's soccer chief Frank Lowy said his country's Football Federation (FFA) may seek compensation if the 2022 World Cup is switched to the winter after his country lost out to Qatar. "

    A total disgrace. I must not think about this too much because it will make me utterly furious.
    A fiasco. The whole thing should be re tendered.
    Does time allow for the whole process to start from scratch ?

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?

    Don't be silly Jack.. the second that the vote is lost it'll be 'we never really wanted independence yet, will go for Devo-Max first'..
    Possibly but Devomax is supported by Labour LibDems and some Conservatives. Independence is an entirely different variety of malt whisky.

    Scotland has a right to independence (if that is what it wants) . It does not have a right to devomax as this alters the conditions within the whole of the UK. Devomax is only for negotiation and maybe a vote for all the UK I would say
    Utter horse doings my old fruit.

    Independence alters the conditions of the UK too but only Scottish voters take part.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,720
    edited September 2013

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?

    Don't be silly Jack.. the second that the vote is lost it'll be 'we never really wanted independence yet, will go for Devo-Max first'..
    Possibly but Devomax is supported by Labour LibDems and some Conservatives. Independence is an entirely different variety of malt whisky.

    Scotland has a right to independence (if that is what it wants) . It does not have a right to devomax as this alters the conditions within the whole of the UK. Devomax is only for negotiation and maybe a vote for all the UK I would say
    Nonsense!

    Everything is within the gift of the SNP:

    * EU Membership
    * Nato Membership
    * A Sterling Zone
    * British Passports

    ......to name but a few......

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    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?

    Don't be silly Jack.. the second that the vote is lost it'll be 'we never really wanted independence yet, will go for Devo-Max first'..
    Possibly but Devomax is supported by Labour LibDems and some Conservatives. Independence is an entirely different variety of malt whisky.

    Scotland has a right to independence (if that is what it wants) . It does not have a right to devomax as this alters the conditions within the whole of the UK. Devomax is only for negotiation and maybe a vote for all the UK I would say
    Utter horse doings my old fruit.

    Independence alters the conditions of the UK too but only Scottish voters take part.

    If they wish to leave the party, that's up to them - on what basis could or would we stop them?

    Of course, if they wish to stay, but change the terms, then that's a matter for all of us....

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    May i respond in kind Jack and say you are talking a load of twaddle-- Independence may alter the conditions of the UK but after independence the rump of the UK will be free to do as it wishes (as will Scotland) . Devomax means a continuing compromise after it and hence any such undertaking involves all the UK and not just Scotland.
    The UIK parliament can say well sorry but those things you want under Devomax are not going to happen and the only option to Scotland woudl be to go for independence .
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    JackW said:

    Utter horse doings my old fruit.

    Independence alters the conditions of the UK too but only Scottish voters take part.

    Donkey-droppings JokeW:

    The Scots have a say over independence: They do no have a right to dictate DevoMax. However it is labelled - Dr P. - it is down to the greater demos and certainly not some Praetorian northern folk....
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    tim said:

    Football: seems a winter World Cup is now planned:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24160879

    Doesn't that fundamentally alter things? Not in terms of domestic football leagues (although it does), but regarding the bidding process. They've awarded it to Qatar based on summer games, but then changed it to winter. Is that fair?

    "Earlier this week, Australia's soccer chief Frank Lowy said his country's Football Federation (FFA) may seek compensation if the 2022 World Cup is switched to the winter after his country lost out to Qatar. "

    A total disgrace. I must not think about this too much because it will make me utterly furious.
    Whatever the other issues Australia got one vote and came last among the five bidders, their claim for compensation is spurious.

    A winter competition with a joint Qatar-Iran location could be an icebreaker.
    More of a heatbuster Tim!
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    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    SeanT said:

    I've just had a very curious, articulate email from a "Sikh historian", following my Teleblog about the burka.

    He says it is common knowledge that Muslim girls, at his son's school, put earphones on under the burqa/niqab, for exams, allowing them to cheat - as they listen to cribbed notes. Presumably no teacher would ever challenge them or frisk them.

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?

    Surely you'd need to navigate the notes to stand any chance of using them successfully? Anyway, a quick search throws up nothing. Some bits about hiding physical notes to get them into the exam room, but using them would risk being caught.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?

    Don't be silly Jack.. the second that the vote is lost it'll be 'we never really wanted independence yet, will go for Devo-Max first'..
    Possibly but Devomax is supported by Labour LibDems and some Conservatives. Independence is an entirely different variety of malt whisky.

    Scotland has a right to independence (if that is what it wants) . It does not have a right to devomax as this alters the conditions within the whole of the UK. Devomax is only for negotiation and maybe a vote for all the UK I would say
    Utter horse doings my old fruit.

    Independence alters the conditions of the UK too but only Scottish voters take part.

    If they wish to leave the party, that's up to them - on what basis could or would we stop them?

    Of course, if they wish to stay, but change the terms, then that's a matter for all of us....

    The terms were changed with initial devolution for Scotland and Wales without reference to English or Ulster voters. Neither did anywhere else have a say on the proposed devolved Northern assembly or the mayoralty votes.

    What would happen if Scotland says no to Devomax but England says yes .... titters ....

    Worms in a can I'd say !!

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    The poll is obviously an outlier. There's no way that the Conservatives and UKIP have 48% between them. But, the trend has been clear over the past few months for the Labour lead to gradually decline.
  • Options



    Not sure where the smear or lie is here. Can you point it out?

    You should know better than that SO. Tim's whole modus operandi is to throw up questions and accusations that are filled with inuendo and which he thinks will undermine what is being said but which bear no relation to the story at hand. If he is then challenged on this he slinks away and says no more whilst having successfully diverted attention away from the original post.

    He has a long and dishonourable record of this going right back to when I first appeared on here when he was happily labelling me racist based on nothing more than the town I came from. When I challenged him on this he fell silent and pretended it had never happened and it took weeks of not letting it drop before he finally admitted he was wrong.

    He is, in the end, a thoroughly nasty little piece of work and it is a shame that so many people let him get away with his games.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    tim said:

    RedRag1 said:

    Anyon know what the retails sales figure for the UK that were released to day. Usually they are splashed across here the minute they are announced.

    "Retail sales volumes fell 0.9% in August according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) - a surprise for analysts who had expected a rise of around 0.4%."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24156664

    Lots of weather and Olympics related stuff in there, but no splash of them over here from the usual suspects as you say.
    But, still up by 1.7% on the quarter. All the indicators are for strong growth overall in Q3.

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    I don't think thats any kind of precedent JAck . Maybe England shoudl have had a vote on devolution as well though?
    You are in effect saying Scotland can choose its relationship to any degree with the UK and the rest of the UK has to say ok we accept . As I said earlier you are talking twaddle
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    Plato said:

    Brookes cartoon is brilliant Laugh now, but Ed Miliband and Ed Balls could soon be running the country | @jgforsyth via @spectator http://specc.ie/1drzvsY

    "A Tory MP bobbed up at Prime Minister’s Questions recently to ask David Cameron whether he was ‘aware that 4 per cent of people believe that Elvis is still alive? That is double the number, we hear today, who think that Edward Miliband is a natural leader?’ The Tory benches tittered, Labour MPs slumped into their seats as if this was a depressingly fair point, and the Labour leader himself tried not to look too hurt.

    The exchange reflected a Westminster consensus that the idea of Miliband as prime minister is risible. His aestas horribilis has reinforced the view among many in the political class that he simply doesn’t have what it takes to be leader. Those supporters of his brother David who greeted his victory by bitterly declaring that Labour had just lost the next election have been out in force in recent weeks.

    Perhaps the person in SW1 least affected by all this is Miliband himself. He is used to being written off by the pundits. His friends love to point out that these self same soothsayers were convinced that his brother would beat him to the leadership. He says he has learned to take opinion polls ‘with a pinch of sugar’

    According to Anthony Wells, 5% of the population believe in the existence of vampires.

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    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?

    Don't be silly Jack.. the second that the vote is lost it'll be 'we never really wanted independence yet, will go for Devo-Max first'..
    Possibly but Devomax is supported by Labour LibDems and some Conservatives. Independence is an entirely different variety of malt whisky.

    Scotland has a right to independence (if that is what it wants) . It does not have a right to devomax as this alters the conditions within the whole of the UK. Devomax is only for negotiation and maybe a vote for all the UK I would say
    Utter horse doings my old fruit.

    Independence alters the conditions of the UK too but only Scottish voters take part.

    If they wish to leave the party, that's up to them - on what basis could or would we stop them?

    Of course, if they wish to stay, but change the terms, then that's a matter for all of us....

    The terms were changed with initial devolution for Scotland and Wales without reference to English or Ulster voters.

    They were forewarned - devolution was in the Labour 1997 manifesto:

    "A sovereign Westminster Parliament will devolve power to Scotland and Wales. The Union will be strengthened and the threat of separatism removed.

    As soon as possible after the election, we will enact legislation to allow the people of Scotland and Wales to vote in separate referendums on our proposals, which will be set out in white papers. These referendums will take place not later than the autumn of 1997. A simple majority of those voting in each referendum will be the majority required. Popular endorsement will strengthen the legitimacy of our proposals and speed their passage through Parliament."

    http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml

    Touching that bit about 'threat of separatism removed'.....instead 'which will lead to an independence referendum in 15 years....'would have been more accurate.....
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    tim said:

    Football: seems a winter World Cup is now planned:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24160879

    Doesn't that fundamentally alter things? Not in terms of domestic football leagues (although it does), but regarding the bidding process. They've awarded it to Qatar based on summer games, but then changed it to winter. Is that fair?

    "Earlier this week, Australia's soccer chief Frank Lowy said his country's Football Federation (FFA) may seek compensation if the 2022 World Cup is switched to the winter after his country lost out to Qatar. "

    A total disgrace. I must not think about this too much because it will make me utterly furious.
    Whatever the other issues Australia got one vote and came last among the five bidders, their claim for compensation is spurious.

    A winter competition with a joint Qatar-Iran location could be an icebreaker.

    Not too bothered about Australia, much more bothered about the idea of having a WC bang in the middle of the proper football season only because FIFA made a ridiculous choice of host country in the first place for highly dubious reasons. It will not only bugger up 21/22 or 22/23, but seasons either side, as well as plenty of other sports and events. In the end, however, it won't happen - the TV rights will see to that. The yanks will not pay big bucks for a tournament held bang in the middle of the American Football, ice hockey and basketball seasons.

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    SeanT said:

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?

    Why the "or"? Generally lots of people have heard urban myths - and believe them too - without that affecting the veracity or otherwise of the tale.
    Anecdote alert about urban myths:
    On Tuesday I was chatting to a lady who, to be polite, was from the left-hand side of the Bell Curve. She was certain beyond reason that this government had banned Tom and Jerry cartoons because of violence, and this was why you could no longer see them on TV.

    I wasn't certain enough of my facts to really counter her, and I knew there had been problems with scenes involving the maid and smoking.

    However I pointed out the 'Itchy and Scratchy' shorts in the Simpsons were still shown, and were probably more violent than Tom and Jerry. To which she countered: "but that's a cartoon!"

    flabber=(ghasted*2)
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    SeanT said:

    Look at the full figures in the Yougov poll
    Before weighting Con 455 voters Labour 549
    After weighting Con 507 voters Labour 507

    very neatly done to change a Labour lead of 8% into a dead heat

    And bingo!

    I make you the third lefty in a row to claim that in some way three different pollsters are LYING when they've produced these recent results which are unhappy for Labour. We've had claims that IPSOS-MORI "don't know how to poll", another leftwing 20watt said something similar about ICM a few weeks back.

    Don't know about you, but I see a meta-trend here. You can dismiss one leftie freaking out about an unfriendly poll as a rogue, but when you get THREE...

    The Left is now officially Worried.
    Any pollster who polls honestly is bound to come up with odd samples, and odd results from time to time. They come out in the wash. It's the trend that matters.

  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047

    OT Janet Yellen looks like a shoo-in for Fed Chairman. The White House has leaked her name and if they back off now they're going to look sexist, not to mention upsetting Elizabeth Warren which is a generally unwise thing to do.

    Maybe some value here:
    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/us-federal-reserve

    This whole shambles has been rather under-reported in Britain. Obama wanted Larry Summers but his Democratic colleagues have pulled the rug from under his feet. This is because Summers of course was a key figure in allowing the financial sector to explode. The more interesting point in why Obama was so keen on him? Still if the Democrats are moving in this direction it can only be a good thing. Now the interesting thing for the UK is that Summers was Ed Balls' tutor at Harvard and Balls invited him to the Labour Party conference. So whilst the Democrats may now have seen the light (no thanks to their 'change' President) what of Labour and Balls?
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    Grandiose said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just had a very curious, articulate email from a "Sikh historian", following my Teleblog about the burka.

    He says it is common knowledge that Muslim girls, at his son's school, put earphones on under the burqa/niqab, for exams, allowing them to cheat - as they listen to cribbed notes. Presumably no teacher would ever challenge them or frisk them.

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?

    Surely you'd need to navigate the notes to stand any chance of using them successfully? Anyway, a quick search throws up nothing. Some bits about hiding physical notes to get them into the exam room, but using them would risk being caught.
    I see Egypt banned niqabs in their university exams in 2010 because students were using bluetooth for cheating. So it appears it is possible and done in some quarters.

    http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/no-niqabs-no-cheating-through-blue-tooth

    http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/3577/Egypt/Politics-/Niqab-wearing-university-students-not-allowed-to-t.aspx

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,318
    tim said:

    Football: seems a winter World Cup is now planned:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24160879

    Doesn't that fundamentally alter things? Not in terms of domestic football leagues (although it does), but regarding the bidding process. They've awarded it to Qatar based on summer games, but then changed it to winter. Is that fair?

    "Earlier this week, Australia's soccer chief Frank Lowy said his country's Football Federation (FFA) may seek compensation if the 2022 World Cup is switched to the winter after his country lost out to Qatar. "

    A total disgrace. I must not think about this too much because it will make me utterly furious.
    Whatever the other issues Australia got one vote and came last among the five bidders, their claim for compensation is spurious.

    A winter competition with a joint Qatar-Iran location could be an icebreaker.
    Indeed it would. And Qatar-Iran could kick off by holding the Women's World Cup also.
  • Options



    Not sure where the smear or lie is here. Can you point it out?

    You should know better than that SO. Tim's whole modus operandi is to throw up questions and accusations that are filled with inuendo and which he thinks will undermine what is being said but which bear no relation to the story at hand. If he is then challenged on this he slinks away and says no more whilst having successfully diverted attention away from the original post.

    He has a long and dishonourable record of this going right back to when I first appeared on here when he was happily labelling me racist based on nothing more than the town I came from. When I challenged him on this he fell silent and pretended it had never happened and it took weeks of not letting it drop before he finally admitted he was wrong.

    He is, in the end, a thoroughly nasty little piece of work and it is a shame that so many people let him get away with his games.

    I disagree generally with that, but if Tim labelled you a racist that was bang out of order and I can understand you being furious with him.

    On this issue specifically, I would argue that there is an onus on someone making claims about Moslem girls exploiting their outfits to cheat to provide some evidence. This is an emotive subject generally and tensions between Sikhs and Moslems in India and here are well-known. So I don't see the problem with what Tim did.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,318



    Not sure where the smear or lie is here. Can you point it out?

    You should know better than that SO. Tim's whole modus operandi is to throw up questions and accusations that are filled with inuendo and which he thinks will undermine what is being said but which bear no relation to the story at hand. If he is then challenged on this he slinks away and says no more whilst having successfully diverted attention away from the original post.

    He has a long and dishonourable record of this going right back to when I first appeared on here when he was happily labelling me racist based on nothing more than the town I came from. When I challenged him on this he fell silent and pretended it had never happened and it took weeks of not letting it drop before he finally admitted he was wrong.

    He is, in the end, a thoroughly nasty little piece of work and it is a shame that so many people let him get away with his games.

    I disagree generally with that, but if Tim labelled you a racist that was bang out of order and I can understand you being furious with him.


    tim usually criticises people for using racist memes without first having thought it through.

    Which is fair enough.
  • Options

    OT Janet Yellen looks like a shoo-in for Fed Chairman. The White House has leaked her name and if they back off now they're going to look sexist, not to mention upsetting Elizabeth Warren which is a generally unwise thing to do.

    Maybe some value here:
    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/us-federal-reserve

    This whole shambles has been rather under-reported in Britain. Obama wanted Larry Summers but his Democratic colleagues have pulled the rug from under his feet. This is because Summers of course was a key figure in allowing the financial sector to explode. The more interesting point in why Obama was so keen on him? Still if the Democrats are moving in this direction it can only be a good thing. Now the interesting thing for the UK is that Summers was Ed Balls' tutor at Harvard and Balls invited him to the Labour Party conference. So whilst the Democrats may now have seen the light (no thanks to their 'change' President) what of Labour and Balls?
    Right, so if they switch on her now they've got a bunch of furious senators and they look even stupider. Game over, shorely?
  • Options
    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    Look at the full figures in the Yougov poll
    Before weighting Con 455 voters Labour 549
    After weighting Con 507 voters Labour 507

    very neatly done to change a Labour lead of 8% into a dead heat

    And bingo!

    I make you the third lefty in a row to claim that in some way three different pollsters are LYING when they've produced these recent results which are unhappy for Labour. We've had claims that IPSOS-MORI "don't know how to poll", another leftwing 20watt said something similar about ICM a few weeks back.

    Don't know about you, but I see a meta-trend here. You can dismiss one leftie freaking out about an unfriendly poll as a rogue, but when you get THREE...

    The Left is now officially Worried.
    Any pollster who polls honestly is bound to come up with odd samples, and odd results from time to time. They come out in the wash. It's the trend that matters.

    Sorry to disagree , Sean . Yes pollsters will come up with odd samples from time to time ( some seem to come up with strange samples all the time ) . These should be corrected or at least ameliorated by their weighting adjustments . What we have in this Yougov case is a pretty normal sample comparable to previous polls but an unexplained weighting adjustment that produces an out of the ordinary result .
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047



    Not sure where the smear or lie is here. Can you point it out?

    You should know better than that SO. Tim's whole modus operandi is to throw up questions and accusations that are filled with inuendo and which he thinks will undermine what is being said but which bear no relation to the story at hand. If he is then challenged on this he slinks away and says no more whilst having successfully diverted attention away from the original post.

    He has a long and dishonourable record of this going right back to when I first appeared on here when he was happily labelling me racist based on nothing more than the town I came from. When I challenged him on this he fell silent and pretended it had never happened and it took weeks of not letting it drop before he finally admitted he was wrong.

    He is, in the end, a thoroughly nasty little piece of work and it is a shame that so many people let him get away with his games.

    I disagree generally with that, but if Tim labelled you a racist that was bang out of order and I can understand you being furious with him.

    On this issue specifically, I would argue that there is an onus on someone making claims about Moslem girls exploiting their outfits to cheat to provide some evidence. This is an emotive subject generally and tensions between Sikhs and Moslems in India and here are well-known. So I don't see the problem with what Tim did.

    All seems rather anecdotal. However I don't have a problem with invigilators doing checks to make sure people are who they say they are and not cheating. If someone turned up for an exam in full Jedi costume I'd expect invigilators to be a little bit suspicious. It's their job to be.

    I remember being told about a case of exam cheating that had happened at my school many years previously. It involved identical twins. You can probably work it out.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007

    antifrank said:

    Stuart Dickson unaccountably left out this bit of Scottish referendum news:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/18/scottish-independence-spending-cut-warning-thinktank

    "Alex Salmond's hopes of inspiring Scotland's voters to embrace independence a year before the 2014 referendum suffered a blow when a thinktank warned he would need to cut billions from public spending immediately after leaving the UK in order to balance the books.

    The report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies said Scotland's high levels of public spending – 17% above the UK average at £7,932 – would neutralise the benefits of North Sea oil and gas revenues flowing into an independent Scotland's treasury, leaving it facing a 15% cut in spending.

    If Scotland were to meet the current targets to cut its debts, it would need spending cuts of £2.4bn over the first two years after elections to an independent parliament in 2016.

    If Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR) projections about falling oil revenues were correct, it would face further cuts of £3.5bn."

    If the No side thinks that it is going to win this campaign by labelling us as too wee, too poor and too stupid then it has a bit of a shock awaiting it on 19 September next year.
    I don't think anyone is calling Salmond (or the Scottish people) stupid. However, I think the SNP is being rather disingenuous if they don't address the matter of how might - theoretically at least - balance the budget.

    Or am I just guilty of ridiculous scaremongering?

    BTW - I'm assuming that Scottish bred tax evaders will be returning to the country to make their contribution, right?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I don't think thats any kind of precedent JAck . Maybe England shoudl have had a vote on devolution as well though?
    You are in effect saying Scotland can choose its relationship to any degree with the UK and the rest of the UK has to say ok we accept . As I said earlier you are talking twaddle

    You seem to be blaming Scotland for wanting to determine it's own future but England has the same option should it wish. The distinction is Scotland wants devolution but English voters have opted against where they voted.

    Certainly it's a quirk of the constitution but then again our unwritten constitution is hardly short of them !!

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    tim said:

    @RichardTyndall.

    Where did race come into it, I thought your beef was with Poles in Newark, and some new houses that Patrick Mercer supported, a combination of which led you to leave the town, or something like that.

    No, once again you show your ignorance and selective memory. My beef was with Patrick Mercer specifically over the building of new houses. It never involved Poles or any other nationality. It never involved immigrants, religions or anything other than the fact that we were building huge numbers of houses in an area that could not support them.

    You were the one who, entirely on your own, jumped straight away to the fact that there were a lot of Poles in Newark and so assumed I was making a race/immigrant comment. In response to your smears I pointed out at the time that Newark had had a large, integrated and settled Eastern European population since WW2, so to suddenly leave because of the Poles after 40 years would be an utterly illogical act.

    When I made this clear and proved that I had given no cause at all for you to make your claims remained utterly silent.

    As always you are quite ready to smear people without cause when it suits you and then ignore any response.
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    the Cheshire Farmers diversions are not working out too well... desperate stuff
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    antifrank said:

    Stuart Dickson unaccountably left out this bit of Scottish referendum news:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/18/scottish-independence-spending-cut-warning-thinktank

    "Alex Salmond's hopes of inspiring Scotland's voters to embrace independence a year before the 2014 referendum suffered a blow when a thinktank warned he would need to cut billions from public spending immediately after leaving the UK in order to balance the books.

    The report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies said Scotland's high levels of public spending – 17% above the UK average at £7,932 – would neutralise the benefits of North Sea oil and gas revenues flowing into an independent Scotland's treasury, leaving it facing a 15% cut in spending.

    If Scotland were to meet the current targets to cut its debts, it would need spending cuts of £2.4bn over the first two years after elections to an independent parliament in 2016.

    If Office of Budget Responsibility (OBR) projections about falling oil revenues were correct, it would face further cuts of £3.5bn."

    Probably because it is bollocks and assumes oil is almost worthless. Usual statistics and damn lies whenever it suits.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    JackW said:

    @Stuart_Dickson

    Might I ask you, if "No" wins the referendum should the question be then parked for a generation ?

    No , it should be raised any time the people are interested and vote in a party with it included in their manifesto.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997

    May i respond in kind Jack and say you are talking a load of twaddle-- Independence may alter the conditions of the UK but after independence the rump of the UK will be free to do as it wishes (as will Scotland) . Devomax means a continuing compromise after it and hence any such undertaking involves all the UK and not just Scotland.
    The UIK parliament can say well sorry but those things you want under Devomax are not going to happen and the only option to Scotland woudl be to go for independence .

    Which is exactly what will happen in the event of a NO vote this time round. Onc ethe unionists welch on their Devo Max promises it will be round two and independence. Only a question of when it will happen.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,997
    rcs1000 said:

    antifrank said:

    Stuart Dickson unaccountably left out this bit of Scottish referendum news:

    September next year.

    I don't think anyone is calling Salmond (or the Scottish people) stupid. However, I think the SNP is being rather disingenuous if they don't address the matter of how might - theoretically at least - balance the budget.

    Or am I just guilty of ridiculous scaremongering?

    BTW - I'm assuming that Scottish bred tax evaders will be returning to the country to make their contribution, right?
    Robert , do you think the UK should inform us of how they are going to balance the budget
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    SeanT said:

    I've just had a very curious, articulate email from a "Sikh historian", following my Teleblog about the burka.

    He says it is common knowledge that Muslim girls, at his son's school, put earphones on under the burqa/niqab, for exams, allowing them to cheat - as they listen to cribbed notes. Presumably no teacher would ever challenge them or frisk them.

    Is this some urban myth or has anyone else heard this?


    How many schoolgirls wear

    a.The Burka.
    B.The Niqab.

    I assume you have a rough idea.
    What does that have to do with it? If Sean's correspondent is correct then it means that those individuals concerned are using their religious rights to cheat. Whether it is a few or many doesn't matter.

    But of course as always you weren't actually interested in addressing the point raised, only in raising a spurious question to sidetrack the conversation.
    Well a good start point with these stories is usually to find out whether there are any girls/how many girls are wearing a Burka or Niqab in the school in question.



    Only if your only interest is in rubbishing the story because it doesn't match your own agenda. Which of course is what drives every post you make here.
    And your interest is to have a pop at me with no interest in the story,obviously.
    Usually these "they banned Christmas" stories fall apart on inspection, but I'm sure you'll locate the school for us and tell us how many girls wear the Niqab or Burka won't you, seeker of truth.

    Just seen your post count.

    Dear god........

    what a waste of a life.

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    tim said:

    tim said:

    @RichardTyndall.

    Where did race come into it, I thought your beef was with Poles in Newark, and some new houses that Patrick Mercer supported, a combination of which led you to leave the town, or something like that.

    No, once again you show your ignorance and selective memory. My beef was with Patrick Mercer specifically over the building of new houses. It never involved Poles or any other nationality. It never involved immigrants, religions or anything other than the fact that we were building huge numbers of houses in an area that could not support them.

    You were the one who, entirely on your own, jumped straight away to the fact that there were a lot of Poles in Newark and so assumed I was making a race/immigrant comment. In response to your smears I pointed out at the time that Newark had had a large, integrated and settled Eastern European population since WW2, so to suddenly leave because of the Poles after 40 years would be an utterly illogical act.

    When I made this clear and proved that I had given no cause at all for you to make your claims remained utterly silent.

    As always you are quite ready to smear people without cause when it suits you and then ignore any response.
    So race was never mentioned, didn't think it was.
    Not by me - it was by you. That was the whole point of my comments and again you squirm to try and get out of it.
This discussion has been closed.