Interesting we could have a Remain majority by the time we Leave.
But I've heard the same demographic arguments about why the Tories will never win a general election for the last 20 years.
25-30% of the country will hate it (and I don’t deny that is a problem) but most of the rest will come to a view on the merits of the final settlement, once it’s agreed.
I’m not sure the polling will be informative, other than a public opinion temperature check on the state of play of the negotiations, until 2021.
Demographic changes will not overturn Brexit alone.
If Brexit is a success we'll remain out of the EU, but if it turns into a disaster then we'll end up with a very close relationship with the EU which might include rejoining.
Interesting we could have a Remain majority by the time we Leave.
But I've heard the same demographic arguments about why the Tories will never win a general election for the last 20 years.
Among 25-34 year olds in 1997, Labour led by 22%. 20 years on, the Tories led by 3% among the same voters, aged 45-54.
Relying on demographic change to bring you victory is a sure way to defeat.
Do you expect the current generation of 25-34 year olds to have the same progression to home ownership, and safe employment as the generation of '97?
If not, then why will their political views shift the same way?
It is not universal or inevitable for youngsters to become more conservative as they age, indeed in the French elections the trend can be the other way.
Nothing is inevitable, but some things are likely. 365,000 people became home owners for the first time in 2017. Over 20 years, that's a lot of voters.
There should be arrests - not surprised the City players were upset - just unacceptable behaviour
It was before the game too which would have clearly affected the psychological state of the City players during the game. Mental preparation is so important at that level. Liverpool should be kicked out.
Maybe but not sure City would want to go through on that basis. But what a way for supporters to shoot their team and themselves in the foot - need strong action and arrests
There should be arrests - not surprised the City players were upset - just unacceptable behaviour
It was before the game too which would have clearly affected the psychological state of the City players during the game. Mental preparation is so important at that level. Liverpool should be kicked out.
Maybe but not sure City would want to go through on that basis. But what a way for supporters to shoot their team and themselves in the foot - need strong action and arrests
The Scousers won’t be kicked out and many will be pretty happy with their night’s work. The aim was to intimidate the City players so they underperformed. Job done, will be their thinking.
Interesting we could have a Remain majority by the time we Leave.
But I've heard the same demographic arguments about why the Tories will never win a general election for the last 20 years.
25-30% of the country will hate it (and I don’t deny that is a problem) but most of the rest will come to a view on the merits of the final settlement, once it’s agreed.
I’m not sure the polling will be informative, other than a public opinion temperature check on the state of play of the negotiations, until 2021.
Demographic changes will not overturn Brexit alone.
If Brexit is a success we'll remain out of the EU, but if it turns into a disaster then we'll end up with a very close relationship with the EU which might include rejoining.
Interesting we could have a Remain majority by the time we Leave.
But I've heard the same demographic arguments about why the Tories will never win a general election for the last 20 years.
Among 25-34 year olds in 1997, Labour led by 22%. 20 years on, the Tories led by 3% among the same voters, aged 45-54.
Relying on demographic change to bring you victory is a sure way to defeat.
Do you expect the current generation of 25-34 year olds to have the same progression to home ownership, and safe employment as the generation of '97?
If not, then why will their political views shift the same way?
It is not universal or inevitable for youngsters to become more conservative as they age, indeed in the French elections the trend can be the other way.
Nothing is inevitable, but some things are likely. 365,000 people became home owners for the first time in 2017. Over 20 years, that's a lot of voters.
At the start of the 1970s it was assumed that Labour were the new natural party of government, the Tories were "yesterday's men", and the UK wouldn't be joining the EEC because the Labour Party was against it.
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
Why did the British government ignore legal protocol after the incident and rush to blame Russia immediately? Have they learnt nothing after Iraq and WMD?
On the 6th March, 48 hours after the Skripal's were hospitalised, the MOD put out a press statement that on Salisbury Plain there had been 3 weeks of co-ordinated CBRN training between Porton Down and 40 Commando (one of the most capable units in the British Army).
If the Skripal's were contaminated with the nerve agent at home, then military grade Novichok would have killed themselves in seconds relatively speaking, rather than going to the pub and then being found lying around on a park bench in Salisbury.
If the policeman was cross contaminated, then how was it that no other emergency staff were contaminated....when a brush past clothing is enough?
The government made a big play of teams running around Salisbury searching areas of contamination. Indeed no boundary to the initial zone of contamination was ever established. And if it had of been then people would have been carefully evacuated and a properly planned decontamination programme put in place.
Further, Skripal's car was towed away with an ill fitting plastic sheet over it - a massive cross contamination risk as it too had been identified as a site of the nerve agent. The towing truck would have been a cross contamination risk as well as the driver of the truck who would have hitched up the car. So where was the assessed cross contaminated truck taken to? It was taken to a public car pound, which it was reported that the authorities had to relocate it in order to ship it to Porton Down for evaluation.
So there you have it, many many holes in the government's official version of events.......and it is no surprise whatsoever that day by day that goes by makes the government look more and more stupid, and less and less credible.
There should be arrests - not surprised the City players were upset - just unacceptable behaviour
It was before the game too which would have clearly affected the psychological state of the City players during the game. Mental preparation is so important at that level. Liverpool should be kicked out.
Maybe but not sure City would want to go through on that basis. But what a way for supporters to shoot their team and themselves in the foot - need strong action and arrests
The Scousers won’t be kicked out and many will be pretty happy with their night’s work. The aim was to intimidate the City players so they underperformed. Job done, will be their thinking.
Maybe not UEFA view - we will see
But may I wish you and all posters a pleasant nights rest
If 52% of the public opposed Brexit by 2021, would Leavers still support its imposition?
I think if that had been the case at the referendum I have little doubt we would have remained and the subject would be pretty well off the agenda today.
However by 2021 the agenda will have moved on and a re-join movement will be needed to campaign to re-join
Good to know but you haven’t answered the question I asked.
I tried my best
Yes and thank you for that. I merely wondered whether Leavers would still support leaving if 53% opposed such a solution on 31 Dec 2020. As you were the only one who even so much as tried to answer, I take my hat off to you.
My own opinion, and I did vote remain but believe we now must leave, is that by 29th March 2019 when we leave 53% wanting to reverse all the legislation and agreements with the EU, would not be sufficient to change Brexit. Indeed at present the many who want to remain need to consider changing to a re-join movement but of course that is unlikely to be quick.
In many ways we are still in a very uncertain period and I am content to see how the final deal pans out
However, I utterly reject the dreadful Farage and the hard right as much as I reject the hard left
I think ultimately it has to be a form of "Brexit in Name Only" and that Leavers will accept it, although they are not there yet. Otherwise it's back to membership and they won't want that. Hard Brexit, which is conceivable, is neither sustainable nor a solution. It would be very damaging and they need Brexit to be a success at some level. Leavers are not engaging to make any alternative work.
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
Why did the British government ignore legal protocol after the incident and rush to blame Russia immediately? Have they learnt nothing after Iraq and WMD?
On the 6th March, 48 hours after the Skripal's were hospitalised, the MOD put out a press statement that on Salisbury Plain there had been 3 weeks of co-ordinated CBRN training between Porton Down and 40 Commando (one of the most capable units in the British Army).
If the Skripal's were contaminated with the nerve agent at home, then military grade Novichok would have killed themselves in seconds relatively speaking, rather than going to the pub and then being found lying around on a park bench in Salisbury.
If the policeman was cross contaminated, then how was it that no other emergency staff were contaminated....when a brush past clothing is enough?
The government made a big play of teams running around Salisbury searching areas of contamination. Indeed no boundary to the initial zone of contamination was ever established. And if it had of been then people would have been carefully evacuated and a properly planned decontamination programme put in place.
Further, Skripal's car was towed away with an ill fitting plastic sheet over it - a massive cross contamination risk as it too had been identified as a site of the nerve agent. The towing truck would have been a cross contamination risk as well as the driver of the truck who would have hitched up the car. So where was the assessed cross contaminated truck taken to? It was taken to a public car pound, which it was reported that the authorities had to relocate it in order to ship it to Porton Down for evaluation.
So there you have it, many many holes in the government's official version of events.......and it is no surprise whatsoever that day by day that goes by makes the government look more and more stupid, and less and less credible.
Absolutely right. Is it more likely the Kremlin killed a traitor, or that said traitor was accidentally poisoned by a Russian nerve agent that Porton Down might have?
Applying Occam's Razer gives us the answer: he was accidentally poisoned.
I think ultimately it has to be a form of "Brexit in Name Only" and that Leavers will accept it, although they are not there yet. Otherwise it's back to membership and they won't want that. Hard Brexit, which is conceivable, is neither sustainable nor a solution. It would be very damaging and they need Brexit to be a success at some level. Leavers are not engaging to make any alternative work.
Their best bet to save face is to blame the mainstream semi-detached consensus for the problem. That way they can frame their support for Brexit not as a rejection of the EU, but of the dissembling politics of the likes of Cameron and Clegg. In my experience a surprising number of extreme Brexiteers would be quite happy with the full EU, but what they object to is being taking for fools.
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think ultimately it has to be a form of "Brexit in Name Only" and that Leavers will accept it, although they are not there yet. Otherwise it's back to membership and they won't want that. Hard Brexit, which is conceivable, is neither sustainable nor a solution. It would be very damaging and they need Brexit to be a success at some level. Leavers are not engaging to make any alternative work.
Their best bet to save face is to blame the mainstream semi-detached consensus for the problem. That way they can frame their support for Brexit not as a rejection of the EU, but of the dissembling politics of the likes of Cameron and Clegg. In my experience a surprising number of extreme Brexiteers would be quite happy with the full EU, but what they object to is being taking for fools.
That really is wishful thinking.
The 2016 vote was not a vote in favour of More Europe.
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think the Russians are still angry about the 1995 incident, where a British agent stole a Russian tank and shot up an army base in St Petersburg.
I think ultimately it has to be a form of "Brexit in Name Only" and that Leavers will accept it, although they are not there yet. Otherwise it's back to membership and they won't want that. Hard Brexit, which is conceivable, is neither sustainable nor a solution. It would be very damaging and they need Brexit to be a success at some level. Leavers are not engaging to make any alternative work.
Their best bet to save face is to blame the mainstream semi-detached consensus for the problem. That way they can frame their support for Brexit not as a rejection of the EU, but of the dissembling politics of the likes of Cameron and Clegg. In my experience a surprising number of extreme Brexiteers would be quite happy with the full EU, but what they object to is being taking for fools.
That really is wishful thinking.
The 2016 vote was not a vote in favour of More Europe.
"If we're not going to be in the Euro, we shouldn't be in the EU" was the reason cited by exactly no Leave voters.
I think ultimately it has to be a form of "Brexit in Name Only" and that Leavers will accept it, although they are not there yet. Otherwise it's back to membership and they won't want that. Hard Brexit, which is conceivable, is neither sustainable nor a solution. It would be very damaging and they need Brexit to be a success at some level. Leavers are not engaging to make any alternative work.
Their best bet to save face is to blame the mainstream semi-detached consensus for the problem. That way they can frame their support for Brexit not as a rejection of the EU, but of the dissembling politics of the likes of Cameron and Clegg. In my experience a surprising number of extreme Brexiteers would be quite happy with the full EU, but what they object to is being taking for fools.
That really is wishful thinking.
The 2016 vote was not a vote in favour of More Europe.
Horseshoe theory applies to Euroscepticism too. The most ardent Brexiteers have it within them to become passionate federalists.
I think ultimately it has to be a form of "Brexit in Name Only" and that Leavers will accept it, although they are not there yet. Otherwise it's back to membership and they won't want that. Hard Brexit, which is conceivable, is neither sustainable nor a solution. It would be very damaging and they need Brexit to be a success at some level. Leavers are not engaging to make any alternative work.
Their best bet to save face is to blame the mainstream semi-detached consensus for the problem. That way they can frame their support for Brexit not as a rejection of the EU, but of the dissembling politics of the likes of Cameron and Clegg. In my experience a surprising number of extreme Brexiteers would be quite happy with the full EU, but what they object to is being taking for fools.
That really is wishful thinking.
The 2016 vote was not a vote in favour of More Europe.
"If we're not going to be in the Euro, we shouldn't be in the EU" was the reason cited by exactly no Leave voters.
You're more likely to see the converse position articulated. Even SeanT has said that if Brexit is reversed we should go all in.
(And my original post should have said "being taken for fools" but it's too late to edit... )
I think ultimately it has to be a form of "Brexit in Name Only" and that Leavers will accept it, although they are not there yet. Otherwise it's back to membership and they won't want that. Hard Brexit, which is conceivable, is neither sustainable nor a solution. It would be very damaging and they need Brexit to be a success at some level. Leavers are not engaging to make any alternative work.
Their best bet to save face is to blame the mainstream semi-detached consensus for the problem. That way they can frame their support for Brexit not as a rejection of the EU, but of the dissembling politics of the likes of Cameron and Clegg. In my experience a surprising number of extreme Brexiteers would be quite happy with the full EU, but what they object to is being taking for fools.
Yeah. We're both speculating on what we believe Leavers think or will think under certain circumstances, even though we both probably reckon it's nonsense. Leavers will decide this at the end of the day - go for scorched earth or accommodate with reality. I think the second is more likely because I have seen quite a lot of accommodation from Leavers so far. Perhaps counterintuitively, I don't think most Leavers care too much about sovereignty, which makes a BINO easier. If you were bothered about sovereignty you would want to get involved, make the trade offs whereas the main reaction is, yawn, why are we talking about this? I think symbols are important. The blue passports do seem to be a thing. Control of your waters. Control of your borders. Have your own trade deals. As long as you get those right at the symbolic level, the rest can look after itself. I may be wrong, in which case we are in trouble...
"Derbyshire’s Chief Constable has defended his controversial decision to sever ties with a male voice choir that has represented the force for more than 60 years.
He said that he did not want a group of middle-aged white men to be a public face of Derbyshire Constabulary and added that the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers."
1. The Russian election was irrelevant, Putin was going to win by hook or by crook. The knocking off of someone seen by the Russian state as a traitor is a totally separate incident with no link to the elections. . They are not a state that does everything abroad with domestic optics in mind, because they don't have to.
2. The Russian state has known form for knocking its opponents off over the last 8-10 years.
3. This chemical weapon was undeclared. It took a whistleblower to reveal it. Just like it took a another whistleblower to reveal the extent of the former Soviet CW & BW program. The Russian state has serious form on being a completely unreliable and untrustworthy source regarding anything to do with CW.
4. The Russian state has come up with multiple theories about why the UK government was behind it. Rudimentary knowledge of Soviet and modern Russian state disinformation practice knows this is a standard tool. If they had a single plausible alternative, they'd take it and run with it.
5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.
6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia.
7. No one denies that a chemical agent was used. The choice was a weapon that was designed to be difficult to detect and specify. If you wanted to do a provocation that you wanted to pin elsewhere, you use something with an obvious resonance. Polonium for example since its already got an association, not some obscure chemical weapon designed and since developed to be tough to define due to its component elements and its degradation process.
8. The deployment method was novel, suggesting years of research (because it takes that long) into using it to effect. This would suggest an offensive CW testing and deployment capability that no nation has seriously levelled at the UK in the modern era. even during the Cold War.
9. Most Western nations, rather than wanting to make a big noise about Russia, would rather play quiet when it comes to Moscow. Its too much of a hassle. The seriousness of this incident has left them with no choice.
10. You think UK government and intelligence has the sheer ability to pull all this and its reaction off in 2018? They really probably don't. Either that or this nation is way more powerful than people give credit for and clearly way more clever than the Russian state to have pulled off and gained such wide support for a patent ruse (apparently).
"Derbyshire’s Chief Constable has defended his controversial decision to sever ties with a male voice choir that has represented the force for more than 60 years.
He said that he did not want a group of middle-aged white men to be a public face of Derbyshire Constabulary and added that the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers."
Presumably Derbyshire Constabulary is so massively overburdened with friends it can afford to throw away a few for such spurious reasons. Or the Chief Constable is dumber than a bag of frogs. One of the two.
Do you think this is the first time Russia has used a Novichok variant for this purpose in the West or is it just the first time it's been either detected or publicly declared?
Do you think this is the first time Russia has used a Novichok variant for this purpose in the West or is it just the first time it's been either detected or publicly declared?
Do not know, plus toxicology testing is not a lot of use if you don't know what you are looking for. Methodology of killing appears to vary based on public information.
"Derbyshire’s Chief Constable has defended his controversial decision to sever ties with a male voice choir that has represented the force for more than 60 years.
He said that he did not want a group of middle-aged white men to be a public face of Derbyshire Constabulary and added that the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers."
"Derbyshire’s Chief Constable has defended his controversial decision to sever ties with a male voice choir that has represented the force for more than 60 years.
He said that he did not want a group of middle-aged white men to be a public face of Derbyshire Constabulary and added that the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers."
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
The lack of interest among Leave supporters in Leave’s failure to date to convince doubters and its so far clear outgunning among previous non-voters is startling. Of course demography isn’t inevitable. But people have to be given a clear reason to change their minds and Leave isn’t even trying to offer one at present. It’s just being assumed that it will somehow happen.
I'm flabbergasted. This Derbyshire Constabulary thing seems weird.
The CC could have done it quietly without any of the race-based, age-based stuff, or introduced a policy which encouraged diverse groups. But he zeroed in on the one option that negates his own claimed values, and which is 100% downside and 0% upside.
"Derbyshire Constabulary does not want to be represented by a group made of exclusively men, almost exclusively older men like myself, and exclusively white males". That seems to fall neatly within the constabulary's own "hate crime" policy.
If it was a "storm in a teacup", then it was a decision he did not need to make.
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
Jewdas was doing some great trolling on Twitter as they caught up and eventually overtook the Board of Deputies for twitter followers.
John Woodcock and Angela Smith got a bit of a telling off as well, not only passing on Guido propaganda but condemning left wing Jews as somehow part of the problem. I hope they both get deselected, attacking Corbyn is one thing, they are not valid targets for Labour MPs.
I'm flabbergasted. This Derbyshire Constabulary thing seems weird.
The CC could have done it quietly without any of the race-based, age-based stuff, or introduced a policy which encouraged diverse groups. But he zeroed in on the one option that negates his own claimed values, and which is 100% downside and 0% upside.
"Derbyshire Constabulary does not want to be represented by a group made of exclusively men, almost exclusively older men like myself, and exclusively white males". That seems to fall neatly within the constabulary's own "hate crime" policy.
If it was a "storm in a teacup", then it was a decision he did not need to make.
Faceplants R Derbyshire.
Perhaps the Derbyshire Constabulary should consider setting an optimum example of diversity by replacing the middle aged white Chief Constable with a disabled, black, transgender lesbian.
Frankly she couldn't do a worse job that the clown presently in post.
The linked piece states that there has been no significant change in the opinion numbers in the 2 years since the Referendum, yet claims that Abracadabra there will be a significant change in 3 years because of 'demographics'.
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
Jewdas was doing some great trolling on Twitter as they caught up and eventually overtook the Board of Deputies for twitter followers.
John Woodcock and Angela Smith got a bit of a telling off as well, not only passing on Guido propaganda but condemning left wing Jews as somehow part of the problem. I hope they both get deselected, attacking Corbyn is one thing, they are not valid targets for Labour MPs.
They're a seriously funny bunch. Apparently one of the questions they ask if you want to join is 'What's your favourite herring'!. I'd like to join just to help outnumber the loathsome board of deputies
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
I’m not sure I completely understand the table. Why is there not an element of double counting in combining the projected effect of change in the three groupings?
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
Jewdas was doing some great trolling on Twitter as they caught up and eventually overtook the Board of Deputies for twitter followers.
John Woodcock and Angela Smith got a bit of a telling off as well, not only passing on Guido propaganda but condemning left wing Jews as somehow part of the problem. I hope they both get deselected, attacking Corbyn is one thing, they are not valid targets for Labour MPs.
I think Corbyn knows exactly what he is doing, which is exactly what he has always done - being a figurehead for those promoting his kind of far-left 'values', which do not include the kind of democracy we have here.
Attacking the Labour leadership has been a valid target for Corbyn for the last 30 years; he should be consistent.
An interesting article, but ultimately a counterfactual the nation won't be seeing any time soon. The never never out but eternally transitioning arrangement will be the status quo ante well past 2021 no matter how much Farage or Gina Miller dislikes it.
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think the Russians are still angry about the 1995 incident, where a British agent stole a Russian tank and shot up an army base in St Petersburg.
Is that the incident where the same British agent was framed for the murder of Defense Minister Dmitri Mishkin?
"Derbyshire’s Chief Constable has defended his controversial decision to sever ties with a male voice choir that has represented the force for more than 60 years.
He said that he did not want a group of middle-aged white men to be a public face of Derbyshire Constabulary and added that the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers."
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think the Russians are still angry about the 1995 incident, where a British agent stole a Russian tank and shot up an army base in St Petersburg.
Is that the incident where the same British agent was framed for the murder of Defense Minister Dmitri Mishkin?
It’s a lot older than that. It all goes back to an incident on a ski slope.
An interesting article, but ultimately a counterfactual the nation won't be seeing any time soon. The never never out but eternally transitioning arrangement will be the status quo ante well past 2021 no matter how much Farage or Gina Miller dislikes it.
I’m totally done with Farage, and have been for some time.
The one thing I can’t stand is lack of patriotism and standing up for your own country, whether that comes from the hard-right or the hard-left.
He’s more interested in being Trump and Putin’s sockpuppet to indulge his ego and everything else comes second to that, including this country.
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
Jewdas was doing some great trolling on Twitter as they caught up and eventually overtook the Board of Deputies for twitter followers.
John Woodcock and Angela Smith got a bit of a telling off as well, not only passing on Guido propaganda but condemning left wing Jews as somehow part of the problem. I hope they both get deselected, attacking Corbyn is one thing, they are not valid targets for Labour MPs.
I think Corbyn knows exactly what he is doing, which is exactly what he has always done - being a figurehead for those promoting his kind of far-left 'values', which do not include the kind of democracy we have here.
Attacking the Labour leadership has been a valid target for Corbyn for the last 30 years; he should be consistent.
When Guido leads the charge however valid the cause most sensible people instinctively want to jump ship
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
Jewdas was doing some great trolling on Twitter as they caught up and eventually overtook the Board of Deputies for twitter followers.
John Woodcock and Angela Smith got a bit of a telling off as well, not only passing on Guido propaganda but condemning left wing Jews as somehow part of the problem. I hope they both get deselected, attacking Corbyn is one thing, they are not valid targets for Labour MPs.
I think Corbyn knows exactly what he is doing, which is exactly what he has always done - being a figurehead for those promoting his kind of far-left 'values', which do not include the kind of democracy we have here.
Attacking the Labour leadership has been a valid target for Corbyn for the last 30 years; he should be consistent.
Jewdas have been consistent in calling out anti semitism left and right, in their words, before it was cool.
They also never claimed it didn't exist within Labour. They pointed out that there were many who didn't care about anti semitism pushing the idea for their own ends. A perfectly valid point many would argue.
There is nothing wrong with these people's 'values' I would much prefer people with 'values' like theirs than yours as an example. Also if it is the anti democracy crowd your after then you can probably join Alan Sugar and a few of the Labour MPs grumbling to themselves that he should be gone (the latter more privately) regardless of what the members and voters actually want. As a left winger democracy has never been doing better for me, why abandon it now?
Think I've already read the Harry hit piece on them. Harry in not a big fan of left wingers shock!
I'm flabbergasted. This Derbyshire Constabulary thing seems weird.
The CC could have done it quietly without any of the race-based, age-based stuff, or introduced a policy which encouraged diverse groups. But he zeroed in on the one option that negates his own claimed values, and which is 100% downside and 0% upside.
"Derbyshire Constabulary does not want to be represented by a group made of exclusively men, almost exclusively older men like myself, and exclusively white males". That seems to fall neatly within the constabulary's own "hate crime" policy.
If it was a "storm in a teacup", then it was a decision he did not need to make.
Faceplants R Derbyshire.
The obvious explanation is that the choir news was intended to counter the force's gender pay gap, the highest of any police force. Ironically, although unsuccessful on its own terms since critics have rounded on the choir move, it has worked in the sense that no-one is paying any attention to the story that actually matters. The choir has buried the pay gap bad news. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-43632393
An interesting article, but ultimately a counterfactual the nation won't be seeing any time soon. The never never out but eternally transitioning arrangement will be the status quo ante well past 2021 no matter how much Farage or Gina Miller dislikes it.
I’m totally done with Farage, and have been for some time.
The one thing I can’t stand is lack of patriotism and standing up for your own country, whether that comes from the hard-right or the hard-left.
He’s more interested in being Trump and Putin’s sockpuppet to indulge his ego and everything else comes second to that, including this country.
Maybe there are real political views sometimes but I do wonder if he has just come to love the attention more than anything else. The referendum should be his greatest achievement but he almost seems disappointed since.
I think he really wants the 'Brexit betrayal', he wants to continue fighting.
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think the Russians are still angry about the 1995 incident, where a British agent stole a Russian tank and shot up an army base in St Petersburg.
Is that the incident where the same British agent was framed for the murder of Defense Minister Dmitri Mishkin?
It’s a lot older than that. It all goes back to an incident on a ski slope.
An interesting article, but ultimately a counterfactual the nation won't be seeing any time soon. The never never out but eternally transitioning arrangement will be the status quo ante well past 2021 no matter how much Farage or Gina Miller dislikes it.
I’m totally done with Farage, and have been for some time.
The one thing I can’t stand is lack of patriotism and standing up for your own country, whether that comes from the hard-right or the hard-left.
He’s more interested in being Trump and Putin’s sockpuppet to indulge his ego and everything else comes second to that, including this country.
Maybe there are real political views sometimes but I do wonder if he has just come to love the attention more than anything else. The referendum should be his greatest achievement but he almost seems disappointed since.
I think he really wants the 'Brexit betrayal', he wants to continue fighting.
He’s belatedly realising he’s going to be unemployed next year, and can’t resist the money in the US. And he loves the sound of his own voice.
An interesting article, but ultimately a counterfactual the nation won't be seeing any time soon. The never never out but eternally transitioning arrangement will be the status quo ante well past 2021 no matter how much Farage or Gina Miller dislikes it.
I’m totally done with Farage, and have been for some time.
The one thing I can’t stand is lack of patriotism and standing up for your own country, whether that comes from the hard-right or the hard-left.
He’s more interested in being Trump and Putin’s sockpuppet to indulge his ego and everything else comes second to that, including this country.
Maybe there are real political views sometimes but I do wonder if he has just come to love the attention more than anything else. The referendum should be his greatest achievement but he almost seems disappointed since.
I think he really wants the 'Brexit betrayal', he wants to continue fighting.
I'm flabbergasted. This Derbyshire Constabulary thing seems weird.
The CC could have done it quietly without any of the race-based, age-based stuff, or introduced a policy which encouraged diverse groups. But he zeroed in on the one option that negates his own claimed values, and which is 100% downside and 0% upside.
"Derbyshire Constabulary does not want to be represented by a group made of exclusively men, almost exclusively older men like myself, and exclusively white males". That seems to fall neatly within the constabulary's own "hate crime" policy.
If it was a "storm in a teacup", then it was a decision he did not need to make.
Faceplants R Derbyshire.
The obvious explanation is that the choir news was intended to counter the force's gender pay gap, the highest of any police force. Ironically, although unsuccessful on its own terms since critics have rounded on the choir move, it has worked in the sense that no-one is paying any attention to the story that actually matters. The choir has buried the pay gap bad news. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-43632393
How do you have a male voice choir which isn’t exclusively male? It’s a different sound from a mixed gender choir; neither better nor worse, just different. As for the other two points, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that if a non-white male wanted to join he’d be refused (unless he couldn’t carry a note), or that if a younger man wanted to join he’d be refused. Same conditional applies, of course.
I'm flabbergasted. This Derbyshire Constabulary thing seems weird.
The CC could have done it quietly without any of the race-based, age-based stuff, or introduced a policy which encouraged diverse groups. But he zeroed in on the one option that negates his own claimed values, and which is 100% downside and 0% upside.
"Derbyshire Constabulary does not want to be represented by a group made of exclusively men, almost exclusively older men like myself, and exclusively white males". That seems to fall neatly within the constabulary's own "hate crime" policy.
If it was a "storm in a teacup", then it was a decision he did not need to make.
Faceplants R Derbyshire.
The obvious explanation is that the choir news was intended to counter the force's gender pay gap, the highest of any police force. Ironically, although unsuccessful on its own terms since critics have rounded on the choir move, it has worked in the sense that no-one is paying any attention to the story that actually matters. The choir has buried the pay gap bad news. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-43632393
How do you have a male voice choir which isn’t exclusively male? It’s a different sound from a mixed gender choir; neither better nor worse, just different. As for the other two points, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that if a non-white male wanted to join he’d be refused (unless he couldn’t carry a note), or that if a younger man wanted to join he’d be refused. Same conditional applies, of course.
Who cares? Derbyshire police has the worst gender pay gap in the country so makes a token move on this choir -- and the media focuses on the latter.
The lack of interest among Leave supporters in Leave’s failure to date to convince doubters and its so far clear outgunning among previous non-voters is startling. Of course demography isn’t inevitable. But people have to be given a clear reason to change their minds and Leave isn’t even trying to offer one at present. It’s just being assumed that it will somehow happen.
Status Quo bias is strong. Once the deed has been done by this time next year many of the less committed Remain supporters will support the status quo of Left.
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think the Russians are still angry about the 1995 incident, where a British agent stole a Russian tank and shot up an army base in St Petersburg.
Is that the incident where the same British agent was framed for the murder of Defense Minister Dmitri Mishkin?
It’s a lot older than that. It all goes back to an incident on a ski slope.
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think the Russians are still angry about the 1995 incident, where a British agent stole a Russian tank and shot up an army base in St Petersburg.
Is that the incident where the same British agent was framed for the murder of Defense Minister Dmitri Mishkin?
It’s a lot older than that. It all goes back to an incident on a ski slope.
"Derbyshire’s Chief Constable has defended his controversial decision to sever ties with a male voice choir that has represented the force for more than 60 years.
He said that he did not want a group of middle-aged white men to be a public face of Derbyshire Constabulary and added that the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers."
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think the Russians are still angry about the 1995 incident, where a British agent stole a Russian tank and shot up an army base in St Petersburg.
Is that the incident where the same British agent was framed for the murder of Defense Minister Dmitri Mishkin?
It’s a lot older than that. It all goes back to an incident on a ski slope.
"Derbyshire’s Chief Constable has defended his controversial decision to sever ties with a male voice choir that has represented the force for more than 60 years.
He said that he did not want a group of middle-aged white men to be a public face of Derbyshire Constabulary and added that the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers."
the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers
That's quite astonishing.
That seems enough of a reason to sever the connection, and to rename the Choir.
Quite. Plus DecrepitJohn’s comment. If there are no senior officers who are female, why is that, and how long has the current Chief Constable been in post?
The lack of interest among Leave supporters in Leave’s failure to date to convince doubters and its so far clear outgunning among previous non-voters is startling. Of course demography isn’t inevitable. But people have to be given a clear reason to change their minds and Leave isn’t even trying to offer one at present. It’s just being assumed that it will somehow happen.
Status Quo bias is strong. Once the deed has been done by this time next year many of the less committed Remain supporters will support the status quo of Left.
That may be a little optimistic, after all Eurosceptic didn't melt to the joys of the EU over time.
We do know that the process if Leaving will be very prolonged, as nothing really changes during transition, and we do know that any FTA will take years longer. It seems unlikely that we will have the same government throughout.
An interesting article, but ultimately a counterfactual the nation won't be seeing any time soon. The never never out but eternally transitioning arrangement will be the status quo ante well past 2021 no matter how much Farage or Gina Miller dislikes it.
I’m totally done with Farage, and have been for some time.
The one thing I can’t stand is lack of patriotism and standing up for your own country, whether that comes from the hard-right or the hard-left.
He’s more interested in being Trump and Putin’s sockpuppet to indulge his ego and everything else comes second to that, including this country.
Maybe there are real political views sometimes but I do wonder if he has just come to love the attention more than anything else. The referendum should be his greatest achievement but he almost seems disappointed since.
I think he really wants the 'Brexit betrayal', he wants to continue fighting.
I think he absolutely wants the attention.
He’s like a needy child.
I think he is chasing the money to be had in certain circles now his gravy train has dried up.
The lack of interest among Leave supporters in Leave’s failure to date to convince doubters and its so far clear outgunning among previous non-voters is startling. Of course demography isn’t inevitable. But people have to be given a clear reason to change their minds and Leave isn’t even trying to offer one at present. It’s just being assumed that it will somehow happen.
Status Quo bias is strong. Once the deed has been done by this time next year many of the less committed Remain supporters will support the status quo of Left.
That may be a little optimistic, after all Eurosceptic didn't melt to the joys of the EU over time.
We do know that the process if Leaving will be very prolonged, as nothing really changes during transition, and we do know that any FTA will take years longer. It seems unlikely that we will have the same government throughout.
Ceratinly, I sincerely hope, not the same Foreign Secretary.
I'm flabbergasted. This Derbyshire Constabulary thing seems weird.
The CC could have done it quietly without any of the race-based, age-based stuff, or introduced a policy which encouraged diverse groups. But he zeroed in on the one option that negates his own claimed values, and which is 100% downside and 0% upside.
"Derbyshire Constabulary does not want to be represented by a group made of exclusively men, almost exclusively older men like myself, and exclusively white males". That seems to fall neatly within the constabulary's own "hate crime" policy.
If it was a "storm in a teacup", then it was a decision he did not need to make.
Faceplants R Derbyshire.
The obvious explanation is that the choir news was intended to counter the force's gender pay gap, the highest of any police force. Ironically, although unsuccessful on its own terms since critics have rounded on the choir move, it has worked in the sense that no-one is paying any attention to the story that actually matters. The choir has buried the pay gap bad news. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-43632393
How do you have a male voice choir which isn’t exclusively male?
Same way you have a police choir with no police, I guess.
Nothing wrong with male voice choirs - just no real reason why the Derbyshire constabulary should be involved, unless their tuning is truly criminal.
I'm curious. At what age do the researchers, and I use the term loosely, believe that opinions become set in stone? If this is the line of thinking that's to be taken, presumably the vote will be removed from those old enough to have a realistic prospect of dying before the election after next. After all, they're demographically less significant than the young, because they won't be around as long.
On a more serious note, F1 changes should be unveiled around 8am today. Not sure if it'll be done via a lengthy speech/press conference or in a splurge of released documents.
Edited extra bit: the edit button's invisible now, too.
On the Derbyshire story, I heard about it the other day. It's dumb as hell. And it's disturbing the way some people are using 'diversity' to mean 'no white people'. Black Panther gets praised for its diversity, and ITV had a nodding approval piece about a black theatre director who has raised the prospect of having roles, maybe even whole plays, set aside for non-whites.
An interesting article, but ultimately a counterfactual the nation won't be seeing any time soon. The never never out but eternally transitioning arrangement will be the status quo ante well past 2021 no matter how much Farage or Gina Miller dislikes it.
I’m totally done with Farage, and have been for some time.
The one thing I can’t stand is lack of patriotism and standing up for your own country, whether that comes from the hard-right or the hard-left.
He’s more interested in being Trump and Putin’s sockpuppet to indulge his ego and everything else comes second to that, including this country.
Maybe there are real political views sometimes but I do wonder if he has just come to love the attention more than anything else. The referendum should be his greatest achievement but he almost seems disappointed since.
I think he really wants the 'Brexit betrayal', he wants to continue fighting.
I think he absolutely wants the attention.
He’s like a needy child.
I think he is chasing the money to be had in certain circles now his gravy train has dried up.
Should anyone stage a pantomime Wind in the Willows, he'd make an excellent Mr Toad. Otherwise, I'm struggling to see the point of him.
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think the Russians are still angry about the 1995 incident, where a British agent stole a Russian tank and shot up an army base in St Petersburg.
Is that the incident where the same British agent was framed for the murder of Defense Minister Dmitri Mishkin?
It’s a lot older than that. It all goes back to an incident on a ski slope.
I wondered if that might be what you were referring to. My favourite Bond scene btw, I remember everyone in the cinema cheering when the chute opened.
Amused at the potential implication that large numbers of people were on tenterhooks at the possibility that the producers might have killed off 007 in the opening sequence
I'm curious. At what age do the researchers, and I use the term loosely, believe that opinions become set in stone? If this is the line of thinking that's to be taken, presumably the vote will be removed from those old enough to have a realistic prospect of dying before the election after next...
Morning, Mr.D. I'll let you know - when I stop changing my mind.
I agree with the Chief Constable. Calling yourself the Derbyshire Constabulary Choir implies you represent the Derbyshire Constabulary and therefore you should be representative of the organisation. If that's not possible, the problem is solved by changing your name. I don't think any of this is unreasonable.
More playing the man and not the ball. @Steve_Garner and you have not answered any of the three points above. Lets see your arguments and substance, rather than resorting to cheap smears.
Well as the Russian Ambassador admitted today he was pleased by the nieces recovery and as Russian TV have played a telephone call between the niece and her cousin in Russia on their TV stations today there is nothing to add
Why would it be in Russia's interests to do something so public just before an election?
.
To boost support for Putin. Killing traitors is usually popular.
I think the Russians are still angry about the 1995 incident, where a British agent stole a Russian tank and shot up an army base in St Petersburg.
Is that the incident where the same British agent was framed for the murder of Defense Minister Dmitri Mishkin?
It’s a lot older than that. It all goes back to an incident on a ski slope.
It doesn't need opinion to swing back to remain/rejoin for us to get back in. If a party wins a general election on a rejoin manifesto it can legitimately take us back in. If its manifesto commitment is to 'seek terms for re-entry and join if satisfactory ones can be obtained' it can easily argue that a referendum would make negotiations impossible. After all, that is one of the fundamental reasons we are having a rough time now. You can't really negotiate with no room for manouvre.
It's very easy to see the Labour Party adopting such a position. It is not remotely inconceivable that the Conservatives might.
The chances of being out of the EU for very long are not at all strong.
I agree with the Chief Constable. Calling yourself the Derbyshire Constabulary Choir implies you represent the Derbyshire Constabulary and therefore you should be representative of the organisation. If that's not possible, the problem is solved by changing your name. I don't think any of this is unreasonable.
Perhaps the problem was as a bunch of white middle-aged men they were somewhat too representative of the organisation?
I'm flabbergasted. This Derbyshire Constabulary thing seems weird.
The CC could have done it quietly without any of the race-based, age-based stuff, or introduced a policy which encouraged diverse groups. But he zeroed in on the one option that negates his own claimed values, and which is 100% downside and 0% upside.
"Derbyshire Constabulary does not want to be represented by a group made of exclusively men, almost exclusively older men like myself, and exclusively white males". That seems to fall neatly within the constabulary's own "hate crime" policy.
If it was a "storm in a teacup", then it was a decision he did not need to make.
Faceplants R Derbyshire.
The obvious explanation is that the choir news was intended to counter the force's gender pay gap, the highest of any police force. Ironically, although unsuccessful on its own terms since critics have rounded on the choir move, it has worked in the sense that no-one is paying any attention to the story that actually matters. The choir has buried the pay gap bad news. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-43632393
How do you have a male voice choir which isn’t exclusively male?
Same way you have a police choir with no police, I guess.
Nothing wrong with male voice choirs - just no real reason why the Derbyshire constabulary should be involved, unless their tuning is truly criminal.
I think the next Treasury auction is going to see surprisingly weak demand. Just a hunch.
Wouldn't there be a flight to bonds if a recession is coming?
By far the largest single buyer of US bonds in recent years has been China. The suggestion is that they will refuse to buy the bonds next time around, in retaliation for what the US are doing with tarrifs, making US debt more expensive as the demand falls.
"Derbyshire’s Chief Constable has defended his controversial decision to sever ties with a male voice choir that has represented the force for more than 60 years.
He said that he did not want a group of middle-aged white men to be a public face of Derbyshire Constabulary and added that the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers."
It doesn't need opinion to swing back to remain/rejoin for us to get back in. If a party wins a general election on a rejoin manifesto it can legitimately take us back in. If its manifesto commitment is to 'seek terms for re-entry and join if satisfactory ones can be obtained' it can easily argue that a referendum would make negotiations impossible. After all, that is one of the fundamental reasons we are having a rough time now. You can't really negotiate with no room for manouvre.
Not sure that really makes sense. The main problems with the current negotiation is that the decision to leave has been taken, and that there is an immovable deadline to leave. Aggravated by a body of opinion (in the UK and EU) that the original decision might be reversed if the terms aren't favourable to the UK (ie the country will opt for remaining in preference to a cliff edge).
It would be perfectly feasible for a future government to open negotiations to rejoin (if the EU looked favourable on the idea) subject to a referendum on the final agreement. I don't see how we could go back in without a referendum (and I think that the EU might even insist on one, with a super majority to ensure that the UK really is committed).
Once we're out it would be in nobody's interests to rejoin unless it really was the settled will to do so.
...(snip for length) 11. For brevity. Occam's razor
Yes, I think so too. But I think our response has been fumbled by overstatement (Boris being the obvious one) and we've used up a lot of diplomatic capital to achieve some who-cares sanctions over numbers of diplomats. If we were serious we'd take steps against Russian hot money in the City and boycott the World Cup, but we're not - instead we've encouraged a sort of phoney cold war where everyone shouts a lot. It's entirely typical that we're saying that we're very tempted not to send some *officials* to the World Cup - gosh.
Given that most of us think that Russia for some odd reason probably decided to engineer a high-profile assassination in Britain, a strong response is appropriate, but strong is not the same as noisy and fumbled.
I'm curious. At what age do the researchers, and I use the term loosely, believe that opinions become set in stone? If this is the line of thinking that's to be taken, presumably the vote will be removed from those old enough to have a realistic prospect of dying before the election after next. After all, they're demographically less significant than the young, because they won't be around as long.
On a more serious note, F1 changes should be unveiled around 8am today. Not sure if it'll be done via a lengthy speech/press conference or in a splurge of released documents.
Edited extra bit: the edit button's invisible now, too.
On the Derbyshire story, I heard about it the other day. It's dumb as hell. And it's disturbing the way some people are using 'diversity' to mean 'no white people'. Black Panther gets praised for its diversity, and ITV had a nodding approval piece about a black theatre director who has raised the prospect of having roles, maybe even whole plays, set aside for non-whites.
Shouldn’t you just look to the play?
Othello, for instance: you could easily reverse the colours. As it’s really about an outsider in a closed circle you could do something totally different as well: a Blairite in the Labour Party perhaps?
I agree with the Chief Constable. Calling yourself the Derbyshire Constabulary Choir implies you represent the Derbyshire Constabulary and therefore you should be representative of the organisation. If that's not possible, the problem is solved by changing your name. I don't think any of this is unreasonable.
Perhaps the problem was as a bunch of white middle-aged men they were somewhat too representative of the organisation?
There are plenty of mixed police choirs, probably the norm, like the fine Edinburgh Police Choir, which does include female and male serving officers.
Comments
Surprised the police didn't clear the streets before bringing the bus through.
And while on the subject, here is the full list of people who've made money following ZeroHedge:
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/810826149400051713
Follow the money, and Ekaterina Paderina
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8186328/Russian-spy-case-Liberal-Democrat-MP-helped-second-Russian-girl.html
Why did the British government ignore legal protocol after the incident and rush to blame Russia immediately? Have they learnt nothing after Iraq and WMD?
On the 6th March, 48 hours after the Skripal's were hospitalised, the MOD put out a press statement that on Salisbury Plain there had been 3 weeks of co-ordinated CBRN training between Porton Down and 40 Commando (one of the most capable units in the British Army).
If the Skripal's were contaminated with the nerve agent at home, then military grade Novichok would have killed themselves in seconds relatively speaking, rather than going to the pub and then being found lying around on a park bench in Salisbury.
If the policeman was cross contaminated, then how was it that no other emergency staff were contaminated....when a brush past clothing is enough?
The government made a big play of teams running around Salisbury searching areas of contamination. Indeed no boundary to the initial zone of contamination was ever established. And if it had of been then people would have been carefully evacuated and a properly planned decontamination programme put in place.
Further, Skripal's car was towed away with an ill fitting plastic sheet over it - a massive cross contamination risk as it too had been identified as a site of the nerve agent. The towing truck would have been a cross contamination risk as well as the driver of the truck who would have hitched up the car. So where was the assessed cross contaminated truck taken to? It was taken to a public car pound, which it was reported that the authorities had to relocate it in order to ship it to Porton Down for evaluation.
So there you have it, many many holes in the government's official version of events.......and it is no surprise whatsoever that day by day that goes by makes the government look more and more stupid, and less and less credible.
But may I wish you and all posters a pleasant nights rest
Good night
Applying Occam's Razer gives us the answer: he was accidentally poisoned.
The 2016 vote was not a vote in favour of More Europe.
https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/982011136643096576?s=21
(And my original post should have said "being taken for fools" but it's too late to edit...
https://twitter.com/michellenichols/status/982027486174334976
He said that he did not want a group of middle-aged white men to be a public face of Derbyshire Constabulary and added that the choir included no current or former Derbyshire police officers, staff or volunteers."
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/chief-constable-hits-back-choir-1424226
1. The Russian election was irrelevant, Putin was going to win by hook or by crook. The knocking off of someone seen by the Russian state as a traitor is a totally separate incident with no link to the elections. . They are not a state that does everything abroad with domestic optics in mind, because they don't have to.
2. The Russian state has known form for knocking its opponents off over the last 8-10 years.
3. This chemical weapon was undeclared. It took a whistleblower to reveal it. Just like it took a another whistleblower to reveal the extent of the former Soviet CW & BW program. The Russian state has serious form on being a completely unreliable and untrustworthy source regarding anything to do with CW.
4. The Russian state has come up with multiple theories about why the UK government was behind it. Rudimentary knowledge of Soviet and modern Russian state disinformation practice knows this is a standard tool. If they had a single plausible alternative, they'd take it and run with it.
5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.
6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia.
7. No one denies that a chemical agent was used. The choice was a weapon that was designed to be difficult to detect and specify. If you wanted to do a provocation that you wanted to pin elsewhere, you use something with an obvious resonance. Polonium for example since its already got an association, not some obscure chemical weapon designed and since developed to be tough to define due to its component elements and its degradation process.
8. The deployment method was novel, suggesting years of research (because it takes that long) into using it to effect. This would suggest an offensive CW testing and deployment capability that no nation has seriously levelled at the UK in the modern era. even during the Cold War.
9. Most Western nations, rather than wanting to make a big noise about Russia, would rather play quiet when it comes to Moscow. Its too much of a hassle. The seriousness of this incident has left them with no choice.
10. You think UK government and intelligence has the sheer ability to pull all this and its reaction off in 2018? They really probably don't. Either that or this nation is way more powerful than people give credit for and clearly way more clever than the Russian state to have pulled off and gained such wide support for a patent ruse (apparently).
11. For brevity. Occam's razor
That's quite astonishing.
By all accounts 'Jewdas' a previously little known fringe group of Left wing Jewish anti Zionists is now being inundated. Perhaps a lesson for the board of deputies and other right wing groups the dangers of hubris (and taking on the obviously divinely blessed Jezza!).
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium-no-one-gets-to-say-who-are-good-jews-not-even-jews-1.5976112
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-43664515
The CC could have done it quietly without any of the race-based, age-based stuff, or introduced a policy which encouraged diverse groups. But he zeroed in on the one option that negates his own claimed values, and which is 100% downside and 0% upside.
"Derbyshire Constabulary does not want to be represented by a group made of exclusively men, almost exclusively older men like myself, and exclusively white males". That seems to fall neatly within the constabulary's own "hate crime" policy.
If it was a "storm in a teacup", then it was a decision he did not need to make.
Faceplants R Derbyshire.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/19/establishment-stopped-me-exposing-greville-janner-25-years-ago
John Woodcock and Angela Smith got a bit of a telling off as well, not only passing on Guido propaganda but condemning left wing Jews as somehow part of the problem. I hope they both get deselected, attacking Corbyn is one thing, they are not valid targets for Labour MPs.
Frankly she couldn't do a worse job that the clown presently in post.
Not a very credible argument to me.
The linked piece states that there has been no significant change in the opinion numbers in the 2 years since the Referendum, yet claims that Abracadabra there will be a significant change in 3 years because of 'demographics'.
Not on those timescales.
I was thinking of the current CEO: Gillian Merron. You know, the former Labour Minister.
http://hurryupharry.org/2018/04/03/corbyn-and-jewdas/
I think Corbyn knows exactly what he is doing, which is exactly what he has always done - being a figurehead for those promoting his kind of far-left 'values', which do not include the kind of democracy we have here.
Attacking the Labour leadership has been a valid target for Corbyn for the last 30 years; he should be consistent.
For people like Emma Thompson, the fact that Devon and Cornwall are overwhelmingly white is a problem in itself.
The one thing I can’t stand is lack of patriotism and standing up for your own country, whether that comes from the hard-right or the hard-left.
He’s more interested in being Trump and Putin’s sockpuppet to indulge his ego and everything else comes second to that, including this country.
https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mehdi-hasan/2011/05/israel-lobby-guido-jews-535
They also never claimed it didn't exist within Labour. They pointed out that there were many who didn't care about anti semitism pushing the idea for their own ends. A perfectly valid point many would argue.
There is nothing wrong with these people's 'values' I would much prefer people with 'values' like theirs than yours as an example. Also if it is the anti democracy crowd your after then you can probably join Alan Sugar and a few of the Labour MPs grumbling to themselves that he should be gone (the latter more privately) regardless of what the members and voters actually want. As a left winger democracy has never been doing better for me, why abandon it now?
Think I've already read the Harry hit piece on them. Harry in not a big fan of left wingers shock!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-43632393
I think he really wants the 'Brexit betrayal', he wants to continue fighting.
Have you a link?
He’s like a needy child.
It’s a different sound from a mixed gender choir; neither better nor worse, just different. As for the other two points, I’ve seen nothing to suggest that if a non-white male wanted to join he’d be refused (unless he couldn’t carry a note), or that if a younger man wanted to join he’d be refused. Same conditional applies, of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kyQauA2udc
My favourite Bond scene btw, I remember everyone in the cinema cheering when the chute opened.
We do know that the process if Leaving will be very prolonged, as nothing really changes during transition, and we do know that any FTA will take years longer. It seems unlikely that we will have the same government throughout.
Nothing wrong with male voice choirs - just no real reason why the Derbyshire constabulary should be involved, unless their tuning is truly criminal.
I'm curious. At what age do the researchers, and I use the term loosely, believe that opinions become set in stone? If this is the line of thinking that's to be taken, presumably the vote will be removed from those old enough to have a realistic prospect of dying before the election after next. After all, they're demographically less significant than the young, because they won't be around as long.
On a more serious note, F1 changes should be unveiled around 8am today. Not sure if it'll be done via a lengthy speech/press conference or in a splurge of released documents.
Edited extra bit: the edit button's invisible now, too.
On the Derbyshire story, I heard about it the other day. It's dumb as hell. And it's disturbing the way some people are using 'diversity' to mean 'no white people'. Black Panther gets praised for its diversity, and ITV had a nodding approval piece about a black theatre director who has raised the prospect of having roles, maybe even whole plays, set aside for non-whites.
I'll let you know - when I stop changing my mind.
It's very easy to see the Labour Party adopting such a position. It is not remotely inconceivable that the Conservatives might.
The chances of being out of the EU for very long are not at all strong.
It would be perfectly feasible for a future government to open negotiations to rejoin (if the EU looked favourable on the idea) subject to a referendum on the final agreement. I don't see how we could go back in without a referendum (and I think that the EU might even insist on one, with a super majority to ensure that the UK really is committed).
Once we're out it would be in nobody's interests to rejoin unless it really was the settled will to do so.
Given that most of us think that Russia for some odd reason probably decided to engineer a high-profile assassination in Britain, a strong response is appropriate, but strong is not the same as noisy and fumbled.
Othello, for instance: you could easily reverse the colours. As it’s really about an outsider in a closed circle you could do something totally different as well: a Blairite in the Labour Party perhaps?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9YhojHLuJyI