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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s local By-Election Preview : April 10th 2013 (t-22

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  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    carl said:

    Plato said:

    RT @britishbullybee: I like William Hague’s slapdown – we can afford to pay for the funeral out of the £21 billion Maggie’s rebate from the EU has gained us

    There's me thinking THERE IS NO MONEY.

    Suddenly there is.

    Don't worry, Carl.

    The Blessed Margaret is going to the great spare bedroom in the sky. Once she is there we will no longer have to pay her rent.

    We only need to pay the relocation costs.
  • @carl

    Well it was Zippy Byrne who said that and being from the Labour benches one cannot be sure exactly what the truth of it was but given Clegg wasted what £80 millon on the AV+ referendum and then wasted £75 million having the PCC elections in November on their own when they could easily have been held either last May or this and when all parties in Parliament are stroking their consciences giving away several additional billions in international aid every year I hardly think spending a few million honouring this nations finest contemporary peacetime Prime Minister is anything to complain about........



  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Andrea

    She seems safe and local enough not to mess this up. Unless there were shenanigans surrounding the withdrawal of the favourite the interest here will surely be on 2 place and whether the Tories beat 10% and whether the Lib Dems save their deposit etc.
  • With a double barreled surname, is she an aristo?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    @Welshowl

    I have yet to meet a single one personally ( I'm sure they must exist somewhere) that wanted to give up the D Mark.

    Yet they have been content to elect government after government that has been pro-Euro and pro-EU. Ironic that......

    True I concede. There again all three main parties entered the 1992 election saying the ERM was a good thing effectively disenfranchising anyone thinking otherwise but agreeing with the rest of their manifestos.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    South Shields Labour Candidate:

    "I was always interested in politics in particular the socialist aspect Labour from an early age, I have a long legacy of shipyard workers in my family who where always discussing the issues of the day. Since then I went on to graduate with a BA (Hons) in Politics and Media Studies from Northumbria University. It was after I graduated that I became more involved in local politics, I was subsequently elected in 2004 and was again honoured to be re-elected in 2006. In this time I have also graduated with a Masters in Social work from Durham University and am employed as a Social worker."

    http://www.southtyneside.info/applications/2/councillorsandcommittees/councillorhomepage.aspx?id=44

    Hmm. Is she really MP material?

    "I find most satisfaction from attending residents meetings and dealing with constituents individual concerns, I have always believed strongly in collective action and in asking people what changes they want to see in the area they live in as opposed to telling people what others have decided for them. At present some of the biggest projects I am working on include working with a group of residents in installing a new car park and aiding all of the residents of one of our new housing estates in gaining a fairer deal from their home providers. I enjoy being a part of the community and am incredibly proud of where I am from and I hope I am able to continue in this role for a long time."
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Neil said:

    welshowl said:

    Nurses do better relatively in Merthyr than Hampstead hence the ( stifled) debate on regional pay. Of course the unions objected viewing it as an excuse to (relatively) cut pay in Merthyr compared to Hampstead.

    Of course it was only ever going to be an excuse to cut pay in some regions given the current fiscal conditions. Which is why backbench Tory MPs from those regions were also against it.

    I benefit from the current national payscale (though Leicester is pretty close to median national income, so not as much as my colleagues in some parts of the country). The implementation would be complex though, and would not always mean lower pay in the regions. Medical posts in London are oversubscribed by applicants, while recruitment to the Welsh NHS is under-subscribed. I suppose the reason is that the non-financial rewards of these regions are also different. Arguably local negotiation may mean higher pay rates in the more deprived regions.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    She's Lead Member Adult Social Care and Support Services.

    So they don't have to worry about fostering parents. Unless she takes old people away from UKIP members.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Pong said:



    Hmm. Is she really MP material?

    For the people of South Shields to decide. But I wasnt aware that "MP material" was a particularly high threshold!

  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    @carl

    Well it was Zippy Byrne who said that and being from the Labour benches one cannot be sure exactly what the truth of it was but given Clegg wasted what £80 millon on the AV+ referendum and then wasted £75 million having the PCC elections in November on their own when they could easily have been held either last May or this and when all parties in Parliament are stroking their consciences giving away several additional billions in international aid every year I hardly think spending a few million honouring this nations finest contemporary peacetime Prime Minister is anything to complain about........



    Total agreement!
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    Pong said:

    South Shields Labour Candidate:

    "I was always interested in politics in particular the socialist aspect Labour from an early age, I have a long legacy of shipyard workers in my family who where always discussing the issues of the day. Since then I went on to graduate with a BA (Hons) in Politics and Media Studies from Northumbria University. It was after I graduated that I became more involved in local politics, I was subsequently elected in 2004 and was again honoured to be re-elected in 2006. In this time I have also graduated with a Masters in Social work from Durham University and am employed as a Social worker."

    http://www.southtyneside.info/applications/2/councillorsandcommittees/councillorhomepage.aspx?id=44

    Hmm. Is she really MP material?

    "I find most satisfaction from attending residents meetings and dealing with constituents individual concerns, I have always believed strongly in collective action and in asking people what changes they want to see in the area they live in as opposed to telling people what others have decided for them. At present some of the biggest projects I am working on include working with a group of residents in installing a new car park and aiding all of the residents of one of our new housing estates in gain ing a fairer deal from their home providers. I enjoy being a part of the community and am incredibly proud of where I am from and I hope I am able to continue in this role for a long time."
    It depends on if you think an MP's main aim should be to legislate, scrutinize legislation and improve laws...or if they should be a super councillor filling constituents' modules....
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Arguably local negotiation may mean higher pay rates in the more deprived regions.

    You can argue anything but that one would be hard to reconcile with the sources of opposition to regional pay!

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,325
    @SeanT: "Pinochet was a son of a bitch, but a brave son of a bitch"

    We're going to have to disagree on this. There's nothing brave about murdering and torturing your opponents, including citizens of foreign countries (a UK citizen, for instance) and denying people the right to vote.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2013

    Paywall

    Several wealthy Conservative donors who once paid £50,000-a-year to dine with David Cameron and Cabinet ministers have defected to UKIP.

    The Eurosceptic party, which secured its best by-election result in February when it came second in Eastleigh, wants to secure its first elected MP in the 2015 general election. It has has begun targeting wealthy businessmen, inviting them to private dinners with Nigel Farage, the party leader, at a London flat.

    The party, which has reached 17 per cent in recent national polls, says it will spend more than £100,000 on the local elections next month and hopes to field 1,700 candidates.

    They spent £80,000 on the Eastleigh by-election. (mentioned in Mr Wheeler's speech at the UKIP spring conference).

    EDIT
    Donations to the Conservatives seem to have fallen dramatically after the 2010 election.

    2005 £24m
    2006 £30m
    2007 £33m
    2008 £32m
    2009 £41m
    2010 £43m
    2011 £23m

    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/party-finance/party-finance-analysis/party-finance-analysis-accounts#Cons
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,109

    With a double barreled surname, is she an aristo?

    She should have stood in Crewe!

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    With a double barreled surname, is she an aristo?

    Her Facebok page says she is married to Simon Buck - so I guess Lewell is her maiden name:


    https://www.facebook.com/cllremma.lewellbuck
  • Labour candidate looks like a rather dull but worthy councillor. Fair enough - that's what they need. The test now is whether the local party are squarely behind her. If so, I can't really see an upset. It's Labour's to lose, so why gamble with someone interesting?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    With a double barreled surname, is she an aristo?


    Double Barreled names are no longer an indicator of aristo origins, they are quite common in all classes now. Often they are used because the parents are not married, sometimes by feminists who do not want children to assume their husbands name etc.


  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Pong said:

    South Shields Labour Candidate:

    "I was always interested in politics in particular the socialist aspect Labour from an early age, I have a long legacy of shipyard workers in my family who where always discussing the issues of the day. Since then I went on to graduate with a BA (Hons) in Politics and Media Studies from Northumbria University. It was after I graduated that I became more involved in local politics, I was subsequently elected in 2004 and was again honoured to be re-elected in 2006. In this time I have also graduated with a Masters in Social work from Durham University and am employed as a Social worker."

    http://www.southtyneside.info/applications/2/councillorsandcommittees/councillorhomepage.aspx?id=44

    Hmm. Is she really MP material?

    "I find most satisfaction from attending residents meetings and dealing with constituents individual concerns, I have always believed strongly in collective action and in asking people what changes they want to see in the area they live in as opposed to telling people what others have decided for them. At present some of the biggest projects I am working on include working with a group of residents in installing a new car park and aiding all of the residents of one of our new housing estates in gain ing a fairer deal from their home providers. I enjoy being a part of the community and am incredibly proud of where I am from and I hope I am able to continue in this role for a long time."
    It depends on if you think an MP's main aim should be to legislate, scrutinize legislation and improve laws...or if they be a super councillor filling constituents' modules....
    There appears to be a new timidity in Labour candidate selections as if the main purpose is to limit electoral damage.

    Ms. Bluebell Woods, the Rotherham candidate was a local public services manager with little political experience. A pretty face and a warm cuddly, local back-story is what is being sought.

    This shows an immense paucity of ambition. Where is the next Attlee or Thatcher coming from?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited April 2013
    AveryLP said:

    Where is the next Attlee or Thatcher coming from?

    From a general election rather than a by-election.

    ETA: though there is a strong argument to say that the next Labour leader may have been elected in a by-election
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    With a double barreled surname, is she an aristo?


    Double Barreled names are no longer an indicator of aristo origins, they are quite common in all classes now. Often they are used because the parents are not married, sometimes by feminists who do not want children to assume their husbands name etc.


    What happened to the time-honoured tradition of prepending "Fitz" to the paternal name to denote a child born out of wedlock.

    Fitzwilliam, Fitzherbert, Fitzedward ... with Fitzroy being the grandest ...

    ... all famous names in our history.

    This practice is far better than creating double barreled surnames.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The Daily Mail has not run out of outrage:

    http://twitpic.com/cifjna

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,109
    AveryLP said:

    With a double barreled surname, is she an aristo?


    Double Barreled names are no longer an indicator of aristo origins, they are quite common in all classes now. Often they are used because the parents are not married, sometimes by feminists who do not want children to assume their husbands name etc.


    What happened to the time-honoured tradition of prepending "Fitz" to the paternal name to denote a child born out of wedlock.

    Fitzwilliam, Fitzherbert, Fitzedward ... with Fitzroy being the grandest ...

    ... all famous names in our history.

    This practice is far better than creating double barreled surnames.
    Well, if the slipper Fitz...

    :)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Carlotta

    Well done to them on linking it to Miliband though. Dan Hodges would be proud.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    AveryLP said:

    Where is the next Attlee or Thatcher coming from?

    From a general election rather than a by-election.

    ETA: though there is a strong argument to say that the next Labour leader may have been elected in a by-election
    Ms. Bluebell Woods?

    Speak quickly, Neil, before the markets react.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Avery

    Not that extreme - Dan Jarvis.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    The Daily Mail has not run out of outrage:

    http://twitpic.com/cifjna

    And her first name is Romany.
  • Neil said:

    @Avery

    Not that extreme - Dan Jarvis.

    Huzzah, a future Prime Minister from Yorkshire, well a Yorkshire seat.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Neil said:

    @CarlottaWell done to them on linking it to Miliband though. Dan Hodges would be proud.

    Yes - I thought that particularly mendacious! Of course the teacher in question was 4 when Thatcher resigned!

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    AveryLP said:

    With a double barreled surname, is she an aristo?


    Double Barreled names are no longer an indicator of aristo origins, they are quite common in all classes now. Often they are used because the parents are not married, sometimes by feminists who do not want children to assume their husbands name etc.


    What happened to the time-honoured tradition of prepending "Fitz" to the paternal name to denote a child born out of wedlock.

    Fitzwilliam, Fitzherbert, Fitzedward ... with Fitzroy being the grandest ...

    ... all famous names in our history.

    This practice is far better than creating double barreled surnames.
    I was not meaning to impugne the honour of the illustrious Lymp-Poles! I am sure that the Lymp and the Poles are very respectable people.

    I have a feminist friend who kept her maiden name on marriage, but it increasingly bothered her that it was her fathers surname, while her mothers had disappeared. The problem was that her mothers surname was of course from her maternal grand-father.

    So in fact by keeping her own birth surname she was continuing to bow to male precedence. She eventually resolved this by choosing her own surname, and for twenty years has been known by this name. Quite an elegant solution, I thought!

    What happens to 2 double barrelled peoples children? Quadruple barrelled surnames are a bit ridiculous, but their children with octuple barrelled surnames even more so!

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Neil said:

    @Avery

    Not that extreme - Dan Jarvis.

    Don't like him. Messed up his victory speech.

    And we should never trust a professed left-wing army officer. It is an oxymoron of military intelligence proportions.

    But he had a very good neighbouring MP who caught my eye. Forgotten his name now but tehn these things tend to come and go in random mindwaves.

  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    Neil said:

    <
    ETA: though there is a strong argument to say that the next Labour leader may have been elected in a by-election

    Who do you have in mind?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,863
    AveryLP - Attlee started off as an East End social worker, in any case you can't have it both ways, decrying the PPE, SPAD class one minute, and then politically experienced locals with experience of the real world!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,863
    Sorry, that should have been politically inexperienced locals
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Avery

    Michael Dugher?

    I also like Lisa Nandy.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Labour candidate looks like a rather dull but worthy councillor. Fair enough - that's what they need. The test now is whether the local party are squarely behind her. If so, I can't really see an upset. It's Labour's to lose, so why gamble with someone interesting?

    That was the LD strategy in Eastleigh - and it worked

    The Ukip guy looks smart and they'll do well. None of the other parties are in it.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited April 2013
    AveryLP said:

    Neil said:

    @Avery

    Not that extreme - Dan Jarvis.

    Don't like him. Messed up his victory speech.

    And we should never trust a professed left-wing army officer. It is an oxymoron of military intelligence proportions.

    But he had a very good neighbouring MP who caught my eye. Forgotten his name now but nowadays these things tend to come and go in mindwaves.

    Major Attlee was quite a good officer by all accounts, serving with the South Lancs regiment at Galipolli. Not a bad fellow at all according to my Grandfather, who was an infantry private in the same battalion.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013

    AveryLP said:

    With a double barreled surname, is she an aristo?


    Double Barreled names are no longer an indicator of aristo origins, they are quite common in all classes now. Often they are used because the parents are not married, sometimes by feminists who do not want children to assume their husbands name etc.


    What happened to the time-honoured tradition of prepending "Fitz" to the paternal name to denote a child born out of wedlock.

    Fitzwilliam, Fitzherbert, Fitzedward ... with Fitzroy being the grandest ...

    ... all famous names in our history.

    This practice is far better than creating double barreled surnames.
    I was not meaning to impugne the honour of the illustrious Lymp-Poles! I am sure that the Lymp and the Poles are very respectable people.

    I have a feminist friend who kept her maiden name on marriage, but it increasingly bothered her that it was her fathers surname, while her mothers had disappeared. The problem was that her mothers surname was of course from her maternal grand-father.

    So in fact by keeping her own birth surname she was continuing to bow to male precedence. She eventually resolved this by choosing her own surname, and for twenty years has been known by this name. Quite an elegant solution, I thought!

    What happens to 2 double barrelled peoples children? Quadruple barrelled surnames are a bit ridiculous, but their children with octuple barrelled surnames even more so!

    Well we do have the MP for South Dorset who fits, the so-called "Richard Drax" who is really Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax.

    And isn't Prince Harry meant to be walking out with an Anstruther-Gough-Calthorpe?

    Perhaps tim can confirm. He is pb's expert on the country's baronetage.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The Daily Mirror has not run out of outrage either:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/suttonnick/status/322098708894318593/photo/1
  • @Welshowl

    There again all three main parties entered the 1992 election saying the ERM was a good thing effectively disenfranchising anyone thinking otherwise but agreeing with the rest of their manifestos.

    It will be interesting to see how the new German Eurosceptic party fares in the upcoming elections.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9910159/Eurosceptic-party-aims-to-take-on-Angela-Merkel-in-Germany.html

    That said from recent reports (one in the FT tonight) it sounds as if they are going to return Merkel (apparently they actually like foreign comparisons to the Germany of old).

    So it would seems they are shedding crocodile tears for the DM......
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9985280/Big-banks-more-dangerous-than-ever-IMFs-Christine-Lagarde-says.html#

    "Almost five years since Lehman Brothers collapsed, she claimed: “The 'oversize banking’ model of too-big-to-fail is more dangerous than ever."
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    edited April 2013
    Anyone know what Mark Thatcher got his knighthood for and whether his sister also got an equivalent and who awarded them?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Neil said:

    @Avery

    Michael Dugher?

    I also like Lisa Nandy.

    Dugher's the one. He accidentally upstaged Jarvis in the pre-count and post declaration interviews.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013

    AveryLP said:

    Neil said:

    @Avery

    Not that extreme - Dan Jarvis.

    Don't like him. Messed up his victory speech.

    And we should never trust a professed left-wing army officer. It is an oxymoron of military intelligence proportions.

    But he had a very good neighbouring MP who caught my eye. Forgotten his name now but nowadays these things tend to come and go in mindwaves.

    Major Attlee was quite a good officer by all accounts, serving with the South Lancs regiment at Galipolli. Not a bad fellow at all according to my Grandfather, who was an infantry private in the same battalion.
    Dr. Sox

    Attlee fought at Galipolli?

    Well that explains the NHS then.
  • Roger said:

    Anyone know what Mark Thatcher got his knighthood for and whether His sister also got an equivalent and who awarded it or them?

    He got his Knighthood from his father's Baronetcy.

    Which was awarded to Sir Denis by Lady Thatcher when she resigned.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,325
    @foxinsoxuk: I have a double-barrelled (and rather striking) surname which will die out after I'm gone unless one of my children take it. Despite coming from a large Irish family the name will disappear (at least in Europe) once I and my cousins have gone because none of the males have produced heirs.

    My mother's name is also double-barrelled (a proper aristo Italian name) but it would be tiresome to use it here because I would spend my life spelling it out and as it is I spend quite a lot of time doing that. Combining the two would be ridiculous.

    I have not changed my name on marriage (partly convenience, partly because I like it and partly because I like distinguishing between my professional life - where I'm known - and my private life where I can be part of Mr and Mrs).

    In the end I think you have to accept that names disappear/change etc. If my children want to take my name fine but if not also fine. They are their own people after all.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,325
    The hereditary peerage to Denis Thatcher was silly. Why give him an honour for just being her husband? Let alone a hereditary honour.

    I don't mean to impugn Denis T who seems to have been the model husband and devoted to her. It's just that if honours are to be given for public service then there should be some evidence of that and they should be given to the person concerned and not to them and their children.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    HYUFD said:

    ... in any case you can't have it both ways ...

    I never had you down as a totalitarian socialist, HYUFD.

  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    @Welshowl

    There again all three main parties entered the 1992 election saying the ERM was a good thing effectively disenfranchising anyone thinking otherwise but agreeing with the rest of their manifestos.

    It will be interesting to see how the new German Eurosceptic party fares in the upcoming elections.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9910159/Eurosceptic-party-aims-to-take-on-Angela-Merkel-in-Germany.html

    That said from recent reports (one in the FT tonight) it sounds as if they are going to return Merkel (apparently they actually like foreign comparisons to the Germany of old).

    So it would seems they are shedding crocodile tears for the DM......

    No IMHO they will return Merkel, but the tears for the DMark are genuine not crocodile. Thing is the D mark was to Germans more than mere cash, it was a symbol if all that went right post 1948 ( its introduction). It was the antithesis to the hyperinflation of the 20s, Hitler, and all that flowed from him, and a reminder if what they ( the West Germsns) had that there eastern brethren didn't.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Avery/Neil

    Interestingly. Ed Miliband beated Mike Dugher in Doncaster North selection in 2005
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I'd like to ask SeanT who he voted for in the 1983 and 1987 elections. Just out of interest.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    edited April 2013
    TSE. "He got his Knighthood from his father's Baronetcy.

    Which was awarded to Sir Denis by Lady Thatcher when she resigned."

    Well there's a surprise! No meritocracy in the Thatcher household! Couldn't she fix Carol up with something?

    I can just imagine Blair or Brown spreading knighthoods around their families.

  • Roger said:

    "He got his Knighthood from his father's Baronetcy.

    Which was awarded to Sir Denis by Lady Thatcher when she resigned."

    Well there's a surprise! No meritocracy in the Thatcher household! Couldn't she fix Carol up with something?

    I can just imagine Blair or Brown spreading knighthoods around their families.

    Well Tony probably wanted to, but he got into trouble about giving out honours in the past.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    As evidence of the general progressiveness of Margaret Thatcher, I give the short hair cut she allowed her daughter Carol to sport at a time when such a course of action might very well have led to furrowed eyebrows in middle-class circles, in Finchley, or wherever they lived at that time. (Maybe it was Dulwich or some such).
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Roger said:

    Anyone know what Mark Thatcher got his knighthood for and whether his sister also got an equivalent and who awarded them?

    Mark Thatcher is the 2nd Baronet (of Scotney in the county of Kent). The title was inherited from Sir Denis Thatcher, who was created a baronet in December 1990 in Margaret Thatcher's resignation honours.

    Both Mark and Carol are also permitted to use the courtesy prenominal title of The Hon(ourable) as they are the children of a Baroness.

    You should also note that Margaret was created Dame Grand Cross of the Croatian Grand Order of King Dmitar Zvonimir. As a result both Mark and Carol are entitled to a 20% discount on coastal holidays in Croatia during off-peak months,

    These titles are much cheaper than a ten million pound funeral Roger.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Who will likely be Labour campaign manager in South Shields?

    In Middlesbrough they used Julie Elliott from Sunderland Central. But in Middlesbrough, they didn't have much to do. With Rotherham overshadowing all and Croydon North getting some attention because it's in London (and so easy to report by London centric media), we barely noticed Middlesbrough was having a by-election.
    Infact, I barely know the UKIP candidate even if he stood there and we could have an idea on his ability from that experience.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    "He got his Knighthood from his father's Baronetcy."

    Can Mark then pass it down through his family without even having to sleep with anyone?
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    welshowl said:

    and lament hugely the accidental unpopularity they are unjustifiably garnering in Southern Europe when they ( rightly) think a) nobody asked them if they wanted the Euro b) they've done nothing wrong other than be thrifty and efficient.

    The banks lent other euro countries more than they could ever possibly repay on the assumption that Germany would backstop it - even though that was never official. Like securitization it doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone what would happen if *all* these countries needed back-stopping at once.

    (Or maybe it did. If it did then this is just banking mafia loan-sharking aimed at looting (aka privatization) of those countries assets.)

    So what the Germans did wrong was not spelling out exactly to what extent they would stand as a financial guarantor.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Roger

    She only did it so you could explode in righteous outrage over 20 years later. Truly she was the PM who couldnt stop giving!
  • Roger said:

    "He got his Knighthood from his father's Baronetcy."

    Can Mark then pass it down through his family without even having to sleep with anyone?

    Well he can pass it onto his son, the Grandchild of Lady Thatcher, whom she memorably announced that "We are a grandmother"
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    Roger said:

    "He got his Knighthood from his father's Baronetcy."

    Can Mark then pass it down through his family without even having to sleep with anyone?

    Well he can pass it onto his son, the Grandchild of Lady Thatcher, whom she memorably announced that "We are a grandmother"
    Isn't grandson American?
  • Neil said:

    @Roger

    She only did it so you could explode in righteous outrage over 20 years later. Truly she was the PM who couldnt stop giving!

    Which is why John Major missed a trick, and should have made Lady Thatcher a hereditary peer.
  • welshowl said:

    Roger said:

    "He got his Knighthood from his father's Baronetcy."

    Can Mark then pass it down through his family without even having to sleep with anyone?

    Well he can pass it onto his son, the Grandchild of Lady Thatcher, whom she memorably announced that "We are a grandmother"
    Isn't grandson American?
    He is, a bit like Sir Winston Churchill was.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    (after taking a short break)

    I see Thatcher's still dead, then...

    Wading through all the craven, misguided hagiographies I notice no-one mentions what will be her really lasting claim to fame.

    The only British PM to be defenestrated by her own party... after they realised she was clinically insane...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think that the creation of hereditary peereges was re-started by Mrs T, when she made William Whitelaw a Viscount (he had no sons so the title died with him). This set a precedent so that further ones could be created including Denis Thatcher.

    It was all part of the hubris that was to destroy Mrs Thatcher.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    RodCrosby said:



    The only British PM to be defenestrated by her own party...

    Tony Blair?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    edited April 2013
    "Well he can pass it onto his son, the Grandchild of Lady Thatcher, whom she memorably announced that "We are a grandmother""

    Well that's great news. what a blessed family. I would have expected nothing less,

    .........and thanks to you and Avery for filling that gap in my education. Now i know what an insane banana republic this country is I'm going to slit my wrists.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    MrJones said:

    welshowl said:

    and lament hugely the accidental unpopularity they are unjustifiably garnering in Southern Europe when they ( rightly) think a) nobody asked them if they wanted the Euro b) they've done nothing wrong other than be thrifty and efficient.

    The banks lent other euro countries more than they could ever possibly repay on the assumption that Germany would backstop it - even though that was never official. Like securitization it doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone what would happen if *all* these countries needed back-stopping at once.

    (Or maybe it did. If it did then this is just banking mafia loan-sharking aimed at looting (aka privatization) of those countries assets.)

    So what the Germans did wrong was not spelling out exactly to what extent they would stand as a financial guarantor.
    Exactly. Implicitly the Pigs went out on uncle Germany's credit card with the world assuming Germany would write a cheque if the worst happened. Nobody explained that scenario to Herr and Frau Schmidt of Frankfurt let alone bother to ask them if that was ok. Hence Merkel has no democratic mandate to send train loads of cash south of the Alps and hence Europe's ills. It's all about democratic defecit.
  • Roger said:

    "Well he can pass it onto his son, the Grandchild of Lady Thatcher, whom she memorably announced that "We are a grandmother""

    Well that's great news. what a blessed family. I would have expected nothing less,

    .........and thanks to you and Avery for filling that gap in my education. Now i know what an insane banana republic this country is I'm going to slit my wrists.

    No problems Roger, us PB Tories view it as part of the big society to educate lefties.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Blair was smart enough to go gracefully...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    It's pretty obvious with hindsight that Mrs Thatcher should have stood down on the 10th anniversary of her premiership in May 1989, around about the time of the famous "We Are A Grandmother" quote.

    The only downside is that the nonentity known as John Moore might have become prime minster, since he was apparently the favoured son at that point in time.

    On the other hand it would have made life interesting for JohnLoony since Moore was the MP for Croydon Central.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Roger said:

    Now i know what an insane banana republic this country is I'm going to slit my wrists.

    The banana republic you live in is France.

    The UK is a banana monarchy.

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    edited April 2013
    Does anyone really think those bankers who are having their titles taken away from them are any less deserving than Mark? does anyone wonder why-apart from on here-she was despised?
  • Roger said:

    Does anyone really think those bankers who are having their titles taken away from them are any less deserving than Mark? does anyone wonder why-apart from on here-she was despised?

    Do you really need educating on the Lavender list, or Cash for Honours?
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @Neil - I don't know how to put this delicately... but, between friends, and I hope you won't take offence at me bringing up the subject, shouldn't you get a new avatar?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Roger said:

    does anyone wonder why-apart from on here-she was despised?

    You did notice the recent polls on Mrs Thatcher? Greatest PM etc.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Some few will be content with the success they have had in the assassination of their leader and will not care very much who the successor is.... They are a band that in the end does not amount to more than 15 or 20 at the most.
    Harold Macmillan.
  • @RodCrosby

    Blair was smart enough to go gracefully...

    What after that bloody national/international goodbye tour he did? Blair went out like a third rate rock star on an failed comeback tour......
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Richard

    I was going to say that that is what I really look like until I remembered that we've met and you know I look far worse. Changing avatars is far beyond my IT capabilities!

  • Which is why John Major missed a trick, and should have made Lady Thatcher a hereditary peer.

    The rumour at the time had it that there was talk of an hereditary peerage but Thatcher herself asked that it not be offered. She loved Mark, and it probably blinded her to many of his flaws... but not completely.

  • Neil said:

    @Richard

    I was going to say that that is what I really look like until I remembered that we've met and you know I look far worse. Changing avatars is far beyond my IT capabilities!

    Right click over your avatar, it'll bring up a new tab, on the top right hand side, there's an icon that looks like some gears, click that, and it'll bring up edit profile, click that.

    Then on the right hand side, click on "Change my picture"

    Rest is simple.
  • RodCrosby said:

    Blair was smart enough to go gracefully...

    Define "gracefully".
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Neil said:

    Roger said:

    Now i know what an insane banana republic this country is I'm going to slit my wrists.

    The banana republic you live in is France.

    The UK is a banana monarchy.

    France's precarious constitutional status is giving Citoyen Hollande sleepless nights.

    If he attends the funeral of the Blessed Margaret will he return home to a Sixth Republic?

    Roger should be consulting an international property lawyer rather than wasting his time pretending pb is a geneological site.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Roger said:

    Does anyone wonder why-apart from on here-she was despised?

    So what happened to the wrist slitting?

  • AveryLP said:

    Roger said:

    Does anyone wonder why-apart from on here-she was despised?

    So what happened to the wrist slitting?

    He needs an outreach worker to help him
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013
    why dear me? I can't see anything much controversial in that article
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    It seems the final round was 130 to 85 votes in favour of Emma Double Surname.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548


    Which is why John Major missed a trick, and should have made Lady Thatcher a hereditary peer.

    The rumour at the time had it that there was talk of an hereditary peerage but Thatcher herself asked that it not be offered. She loved Mark, and it probably blinded her to many of his flaws... but not completely.

    A Baronetage is the lowest hereditary honour, and is in effect a hereditary knighthood, with no entitlement to a seat in the Lords, which any higher honour would have allowed.

    If Tony Blair would have had the same, then it would be Sir Euan Blair who was fishing for a safe seat in Coventry.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Hi again.
    Council officer just announced that the election had a 24.22% turn out. #wigmorebyelection
  • roserees64roserees64 Posts: 251
    Tory MP on Newsnight thought Ed Miliband made a good speech, he made a very measured and statesmanlike speech which could risk alienating some of his MPs.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,109
    RodCrosby said:

    (after taking a short break)

    I see Thatcher's still dead, then...

    Wading through all the craven, misguided hagiographies I notice no-one mentions what will be her really lasting claim to fame.

    The only British PM to be defenestrated by her own party... after they realised she was clinically insane...

    Rod Crosby = Derek Hatton?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Looks like lobby fodder to me if she is elected.
    Pong said:
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    My tip for the masters:
    I have backed Ernie Els £25 EW @ 125/1 for the Masters. (to 5 places with Coral)
    Most pundits think he cannot win and no longer has the game for winning. I disagree.
  • samsam Posts: 727

    Looks like lobby fodder to me if she is elected.

    Pong said:
    A socialist-feminist with a double barrelled name... Lay labour at big odds on?
  • @old_labour

    I do love a sincere politican (from her linked bio):

    and am incredibly proud of where I am from and I hope I am able to continue in this role for a long time.

    But has been applying for jobs that are mainly based in London for several years.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited April 2013
    Define "gracefully."

    Anything not involving tears and recriminations that go on for a decade, at any rate...
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013
    This is a curious juxtaposition of pages which popped up on a search when I wanted to find out more about the next person who will become an MP:

    "Councillor Emma Lewell-Buck, who is the Labour leader for adult social care and support services for South Shields, has defended the council’s day care shake-up which has and will continue to lead to centre closures in the area."

    http://www.carehomesuk.co.uk/resources/news/senior-councillor-defends-centre-closures-as-step-to-improve-day-care-services-in-the-city/

    EMMA LEWELL LIMITED

    Company sics:

    88990 - Other social work activities without accommodation not elsewhere classified


    http://www.companies-uk.co.uk/emma-lewell-limited-07408814



  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Zanu
This discussion has been closed.