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  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,434
    surbiton said:


    At least, there will be £10 milion public spending. At least, something good has happened !

    Indeed.
    Now we know there's definitely something called society; it's paying for all this.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    He does have a penchant for nuclear weapon states, doesn't he?

    Er, none so far really (indeed he's rather anti-Israel).

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Mrs Thatcher transformed the Labour Party.

    Personally, I think it is Neil Kinnock who is the father of the modern labour party.

    He didn;t have the calibre to beat a very strong opponent, but Blair inherited a vastly changed party to the one Kinnock did.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    John Gummer in the Lords: "She had beautiful hands and lovely ankles".

    this is getting weird...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    hucks67 said:

    Plato said:

    RT @RyanCPS: Glenda Jackson really misjudging the mood here.

    Actually I think Mrs T would be looking down enjoying Glenda Jacksons speech, as I don't think she was the type of person who liked being told what she wanted to hear. Mrs T was quite outspoken herself on many occasions and did not run with the grain.
    My grandpa was in a couple of Thatcher's Cabinets - believe me she really didn't like people disagreeing with her! (He was one of the only people who had the courage to repeatedly disagree with her, partly because he was a cantankerous old sold and partly because he didn't care if she sacked him because he was past the point of ambition)
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    At least, there will be £10 milion public spending. At least, something good has happened !

    A tad cheaper than Tony's wars, no?

    :)

    But Tony was another Tory !

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,458
    surbiton said:

    At least, there will be £10 milion public spending. At least, something good has happened !

    A tad cheaper than Tony's wars, no?

    :)
    But Tony was another Tory !



    He stood as Labour last time I checked :P
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Neil

    'Frank Field showing the left how it should be done'

    Ed was excellent,Gerald Kaufman also showing the left how it should be done.
  • Peter_2Peter_2 Posts: 146

    Sorry, forgot about this:
    "Der 'Bundeszentralanmt fur Steuern"

    I think that's the Federal Centre (not sure if 'anmt' adds anything) for, er, probably driving. I had to check Steuern on wiktionary (I haven't used German for ages, sadly) and it means steering.

    Taxes it looks like
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    At least, there will be £10 milion public spending. At least, something good has happened !

    A tad cheaper than Tony's wars, no?

    :)
    But Tony was another Tory !

    He stood as Labour last time I checked :P

    Let's see when the vote for war was put to the House what percentage of Labour MPs voted against compared to the Tories ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,458
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    At least, there will be £10 milion public spending. At least, something good has happened !

    A tad cheaper than Tony's wars, no?

    :)
    But Tony was another Tory !

    He stood as Labour last time I checked :P
    Let's see when the vote for war was put to the House what percentage of Labour MPs voted against compared to the Tories ?

    "We were elected as New Labour. We will govern as New Labour".

    He didn't make any mention of the Tories!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,995
    Did Glenda Jackson really say that Margaret Thatcher was not a woman 'on her terms'? Is this how far leftist identity politics have sunk?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,458
    edited April 2013

    Did Glenda Jackson really say that Margaret Thatcher was not a woman 'on her terms'? Is this how far leftist identity politics have sunk?

    Not too many lady leaders among her Cold War socialist opponents, no?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,260
    Simon Hughes shows Clegg how it should be done.....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I've just caught up with Ed Miliband's speech. It was quite exceptional.
  • Peter_2 said:

    Sorry, forgot about this:
    "Der 'Bundeszentralanmt fur Steuern"

    I think that's the Federal Centre (not sure if 'anmt' adds anything) for, er, probably driving. I had to check Steuern on wiktionary (I haven't used German for ages, sadly) and it means steering.

    Taxes it looks like
    Google Translate returns
    "the Federal Central Tax Office for control"
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    edited April 2013
    Interesting points scoring within the Labour party over Thatcher - Sheerman, Stuart and Miliband tacking to show that Labour has learnt lessons from failures from 1979-97 able to win support from floating voters, whilst Winnick and Jackson remind same voters of the causes of Labour's failures over 18 years.
  • The most interesting comments I've heard were from Sheerman when he called for a new radicalism. I think he's got a point especially in the way he has couched it. However, one thing is for sure it ain't Cameron, it ain't Clegg and it certainly won't be Miliband........
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,732
    Pulpstar said:

    Anyone here au fait with German translations, have a letter from Der 'Bundeszentralanmt fur Steuern'' ! PM me if you can help ;) Is NickP a German speaker ?

    Pulpstar ( I'm a german speaker ) it's the German Central Federal Tax Office which has contacted you.

    Normally this isn't good news :-( as they like asking for money
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,041
    I'm not sure Glenda Jackson's a woman.

    Does anyone have any documentary evidence? ;-)
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714

    I'm not sure Glenda Jackson's a woman.

    Does anyone have any documentary evidence? ;-)

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AEIHvG0JIA0/TOw1EYPSYvI/AAAAAAAADHg/QyLXNyLXYGs/s1600/jackson.jpg

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Who would the coalminers burn first Churchill or Thatcher?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,041

    I'm not sure Glenda Jackson's a woman.

    Does anyone have any documentary evidence? ;-)

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AEIHvG0JIA0/TOw1EYPSYvI/AAAAAAAADHg/QyLXNyLXYGs/s1600/jackson.jpg

    I'm rather worried that you had that quite so readily at your fingertips, as it were...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,260
    Typical! A Tory asked for Thatcher's Ceremonial funeral:

    The request to the Queen to approve such a funeral came from the government and Thatcher's family several years ago, believed to be around the time the Operation True Blue committee was set up under Tony Blair's premiership in 2006.

    http://aggbot.com/UK-News/article/19351878
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    The MP for Washington and Sunderland West.is in tears after the speech of the MP for Blaydon.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Glenda Jackson's "not really a woman" comment represents everything that's wrong with the odious creed of identity politics.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2013

    I'm not sure Glenda Jackson's a woman.

    Does anyone have any documentary evidence? ;-)

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AEIHvG0JIA0/TOw1EYPSYvI/AAAAAAAADHg/QyLXNyLXYGs/s1600/jackson.jpg

    I'm rather worried that you had that quite so readily at your fingertips, as it were...
    I keep the link ready for the bad boys :-)
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Ding dong.... could be #1 by the weekend. Judy Garland, exceptional song !
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Some point scoring over Thatcher's defenestration from the MP for Shipley.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,260
    surbiton said:

    Ding dong.... could be #1 by the weekend. Judy Garland, exceptional song !

    Thatcher's death driving business would have delighted her no end!


  • eekeek Posts: 28,804
    AndyJS said:

    Apparently because Parliament has been recalled an opportunity has arisen for Labour to call the South Shields by-election for 2nd May after all. Whether they'll take it is another matter of course.

    There is no real need as South Tyneside don't have any elections this year.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    Ding dong.... could be #1 by the weekend. Judy Garland, exceptional song !

    Thatcher's death driving business would have delighted her no end!


    Yep, the economy needs a boost ! Also, £10 million of public spending on the ___, that will also help !

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,823
    Dr Spyn - On the miners read this from a resident of N Carolina

    In the US - where my parents have lived for the past 20years - my father was talking to some Geordie lads who were in North Carolina for the summer on a building contract. They whined and whined about Thatcher closing down the mines, decimating jobs (they were all young). My father pointed out that without Thatcher, they wouldn't be enjoying a nice beer in the Carolina sunshine, but instead doomed to working in grimy conditions, probably ending up with cancer or some other long term illness. They agreed and said cheers to Thatcher!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,736

    Mr. G, judging Basil II by the early part of his reign would be folly.
    He can only be assessed properly when his time is done, not unlike a roast parsnip.

    Morris do you really expect him to transform from a turnip to a parsnip.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    Ding dong.... could be #1 by the weekend. Judy Garland, exceptional song !

    Give it up, won't you. It's not making you look big or clever
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,260
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Ding dong.... could be #1 by the weekend. Judy Garland, exceptional song !

    Thatcher's death driving business would have delighted her no end!
    Yep, the economy needs a boost ! Also, £10 million of public spending on the ___, that will also help !
    And Labour take the credit for that spending too!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,823
    Tory MP Conor Burns recalls a campaign visit Lady Thatcher made with him in 2001. Talking to the boss of a gym chain, he recalls the former PM saying that this kind of exercise was worthless since going "up and down stairs was quite good enough".
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    why no-one from Liverpool have spoken?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    @hyufd

    +1.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    Ding dong.... could be #1 by the weekend. Judy Garland, exceptional song !

    Give it up, won't you. It's not making you look big or clever
    Why, do you not like Judy Garland ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,458
    AndyJS said:
    I'm worried to click the link, she looks really scary in that screenshot!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,823
    Taffys - They famously spent a long time nattering in the Tea Room after Thatcher fell
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,736
    TGOHF said:

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind - a terrific speech. Best scotch politician ever.

    Oh dear another clown that knows square root of nothing about Scotland and the Scottish. You certainly know how to make a prat of yourself.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,511
    RE Glenda: Hampstead really suffered under the Thatcher Terror! Honestly, what a nit that woman is.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind - a terrific speech. Best scotch politician ever.

    Oh dear another clown that knows square root of nothing about Scotland and the Scottish. You certainly know how to make a prat of yourself.
    Yeah, he had to get back into Parliament from that Scottish bastion, Kensington & Chelsea. The seat for losers.

  • HYUFD said:

    Dr Spyn - On the miners read this from a resident of N Carolina

    In the US - where my parents have lived for the past 20years - my father was talking to some Geordie lads who were in North Carolina for the summer on a building contract. They whined and whined about Thatcher closing down the mines, decimating jobs (they were all young). My father pointed out that without Thatcher, they wouldn't be enjoying a nice beer in the Carolina sunshine, but instead doomed to working in grimy conditions, probably ending up with cancer or some other long term illness. They agreed and said cheers to Thatcher!

    I miss the Like button.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    why no-one from Liverpool have spoken?

    Did she refer to them as the "moaning minnies" ? I think it was directed at the peopel from the North East.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Cyclefree said:

    RE Glenda: Hampstead really suffered under the Thatcher Terror! Honestly, what a nit that woman is.

    Must be due to the opening of MacDonalds on the High Street. Glenda doing her level best to remind floating voters that Labour did little to win them over in the 1970s and 80s.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,287
    antifrank said:

    I've just caught up with Ed Miliband's speech. It was quite exceptional.

    Agreed. He has gone up in my estimation today. That might be the first time I have thought he sounded and looked like a Prime Minister.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,736
    GIN1138 said:

    Am I the only person on PB that had no idea Dan Hodges was Glenda Jacksons son? :O

    NO
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Interesting story re Rangers FC.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22099662
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,771
    surbiton said:

    why no-one from Liverpool have spoken?

    Did she refer to them as the "moaning minnies" ? I think it was directed at the peopel from the North East.

    Another smear by Labour and the unions at the time. Thatcher was actually berating a doom-mongering media for running the region down and stymieing investment.

    http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/106127
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,736
    AndyJS said:

    Glenda Jackson's "not really a woman" comment represents everything that's wrong with the odious creed of identity politics.

    Typical Tory riposte though , guttersnipes as ever.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,823
    Hertsmere Pubgoer - Indeed, great anecdote
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,736
    dr_spyn said:

    Interesting story re Rangers FC.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22099662

    It is unbelievable and Green also up for racism due to his comments that he always calls his fellow director a p*** and it is a term of endearment , but it is only fun and could be construed badly outside or if players were saying it. Whyte also lost the Ticketus case and has to pay them £18M. Good end to the season for Rangers, NOT.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,287
    Really bizarre story. ECB stats show that Germany has amongst the lowest household wealth in the EZ and Cyprus is second top, with on average over 5 times the domestic wealth: http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-04-10/total-fiasco-germans-are-poorest-cypriots-second-richest-eurozone

    Presumably these results are seriously distorted by the relatively small proportion of home ownership in Germany but it still puts the bail outs into a different light. Why on earth should German taxpayers be forking out to save the rich Cypriots? I mean its not like the Cypriots are bankers or anything...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    @malcolmG

    To rephrase F E Smith:

    It would be possible to say without exaggeration that the footballers were the stupidest men in Britain if we had not frequent occasion to meet the owners.
  • SeanT said:

    Channel 4 News is actually, and calmly, discussing the possibility that Global Warming is not happening, that climate change is possibly a load of bollocks, and that all the carbon-trading-windmill-building-wankofest is simply a waste of money.

    That's Channel 4 News. i.e. the Guardian-on-TV with better looking reporters.

    Truly, the worm hath turned.

    On the subject of climate change, Sean, here's one that might interest you.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22090284

    Cyclist killed in accident was global warming expert. The scary thing about all this is that the cyclist (Dr Katherine Giles) took on the job following the accidental death of her predecessor.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,458
    I wonder if Glenda Jackson can name a single woman leader from among Thatcher 's Cold War socialist opponents.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,458
    SeanT said:

    Channel 4 News is actually, and calmly, discussing the possibility that Global Warming is not happening, that climate change is possibly a load of bollocks, and that all the carbon-trading-windmill-building-wankofest is simply a waste of money.

    That's Channel 4 News. i.e. the Guardian-on-TV with better looking reporters.

    Truly, the worm hath turned.

    Ha! Where's yer global warming now?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,458
    edited April 2013
    dr_spyn said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RE Glenda: Hampstead really suffered under the Thatcher Terror! Honestly, what a nit that woman is.

    Must be due to the opening of MacDonalds on the High Street. Glenda doing her level best to remind floating voters that Labour did little to win them over in the 1970s and 80s.

    Actually Hampstead did have a deep level shaft! Honest!
    '
    '
    '
    '
    '
    '
    '
    Its tube station is the deepest beneath street level, 221ft.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited April 2013
    Well now that gut wrenching sycophancy is over I'd just like to say that though I get no pleasure from her death because the time she she could cause damage has long passed there has never been a British politician who I detested more.

    She's the single reason I would never vote Tory however much the party tries to humanize itself and I suspect this holds true for well over half of the country. Her values were not only not mine but I'd like to think they weren't those of most civilized people.

    Now that the eulogizing is over I look forward to some serious reflection on the ongoing damage that she did. The most divisive leader of any of our lifetimes as Scottish Independence may well be about to prove.

    As for today it was PB at it's worse. It was like North Korea. Who has not shown sufficient respect to our esteemed ex leader...........

    Pass the sickbag.......
  • Peter_2Peter_2 Posts: 146
    Global warming expert. Might as well be a Marxist academic. Or a Klingon intellectual.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,287
    Peter_2 said:

    Global warming expert. Might as well be a Marxist academic. Or a Klingon intellectual.

    Really, a young woman is dead. Is there any need for this?

  • Peter_2Peter_2 Posts: 146
    Roger said:

    Well now that gut wrenching sycophancy is over I'd just like to say that though I get no pleasure from her death because the time she she could cause damage has long passed there has never been a British politician who I detested more.

    ...

    As for today it was PB at it's worse. It was like North Korea. Who has not shown sufficient respect to our esteemed ex leader...........

    Pass the sickbag.......

    Just wait for the left's living saint to snuff it and for a new star to appear in the firmament. I may as well start collecting sick bags from every plane I fly from now on.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited April 2013
    Roger said:

    Well now that gut wrenching sycophancy is over I'd just like to say that though I get no pleasure from her death because the time she she could cause damage has long passed there has never been a British politician who I detested more.

    She's the single reason I would never Tory-and I suspect this holds true for well over half of the country-however much the party tries to humanize itself. Her values were not only not mine but I'd like to think they weren't those of most civilized people either.

    Now that the eulogizing is over I look forward to some serious reflection on the ongoing damage that she did. The most divisive leader of any of our lifetimes as Scottish Independence may well be about to prove.

    As for today it was PB at it's worse. It was like North Korea. Who has not shown sufficient respect to our esteemed ex leader...........

    Pass the sickbag.......

    That is all very well, and I have no problem with your view.

    However, can you explain how your values are incompatible? Which values, a bit of detail to make your position more graphic and understandable rather than a woolly generalisation?
  • WitanWitan Posts: 26
    Well I go away for five minutes and all the techy bits are changed again.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    @Roger

    I can't pretend that I agree with you on this, but some of the actions of Labour's union allies in the late '70s were damaging and dehumanising. MPs like Glenda Jackson are a reminder of the weaknesses or failings highlighted by Barry Sheerman which contributed to Labour's years in the wilderness.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,287
    edited April 2013
    This is quite a good one. This is apparently a montage of the senior political figures in Spain who have been involved in corruption scandals recently. Apparently none of them have yet resigned.

    I don't speak Spanish but I understand that the tagline states that recently a British ex-Minister resigned for lying about a traffic offence: http://ragingbullshitdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/image.jpg

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,194
    DavidL said:

    Peter_2 said:

    Global warming expert. Might as well be a Marxist academic. Or a Klingon intellectual.

    Really, a young woman is dead. Is there any need for this?

    Said on the same day there were parties celebrating Thatchers death.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,823
    From tips for actors

    Sent your anti-Thatcher tweet yet? Remember, if you don't get it in by 11pm tonight it won't count and you'll be ejected from the industry
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2013
    Roger said:

    Her values were not only not mine but I'd like to think they weren't those of most civilized people.

    Yes, Roger, I'm sure you'd be absolutely delighted if we still had exchange controls stopping you your taking money to France, union thugs ran the country preventing the use of modern digital equipment, industry was completely paralysed by strikes (often unrelated to the business), Britain had the second lowest standard of living of the then EC countries, taxpayers were subsidising the laziest companies in the world to make appalling products no-one wanted to buy, mortgages were rationed by the state, it was illegal to connect an extension lead to a phone, taxes were 98% on some income, you had to join a politically-active trades union to work in many industries, prices were set by bureaucrats, incomes were limited by bureaucrats, inflation was in double figures, and two-bit dictators were occupying parts of British territory.

    I'm not quite sure which of your so-called 'values' were offended by her dealing with all of these problems, most of which previous governments had flunked - but I can recognise irrational prejudice when I see it.
  • Peter_2Peter_2 Posts: 146
    DavidL said:

    This is quite a good one. This is apparently a montage of the senior political figures in Spain who have been involved in corruption scandals recently. Apparently none of them have yet resigned.

    I don't speak Spanish but I understand that the tagline states that recently a British ex-Minister resigned for lying about a traffic offence: http://ragingbullshitdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/image.jpg

    It does indeed. In fact there was general incredulity that in the UK someone could resign for a traffic offence while in Spain....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,287
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    Peter_2 said:

    Global warming expert. Might as well be a Marxist academic. Or a Klingon intellectual.

    Really, a young woman is dead. Is there any need for this?

    Said on the same day there were parties celebrating Thatchers death.
    Well quite. Two lefts do not make a right (or something like that).
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    RobD said:


    Said on the same day there were parties celebrating Thatchers death.

    Well that makes it all right then.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,260
    @Roger - so you subscribe to the George Galloway view?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,823
    David Young: at Savoy dinner a waiter spilt something over my wife's dress. MT: "Dont say a word; if you say anything he'll lose his job."
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Roger

    ' Her values were not only not mine but I'd like to think they weren't those of most civilized people.'

    According to recent polling lots of uncivilized people.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "In fact there was general incredulity that in the UK someone could resign for a traffic offence ..."

    I am sure there was, as there should have been because no minister did resign over a traffic offence. A minister of the Crown resigned his office, but not his seat, whilst awaiting trial for trying to corrupt the justice system of his country and then resigned his seat when he admitted he had been lying all along and had actually tried to pervert the course of justice.

    Perhaps if someone explained the facts to the Spaniards they would not be incredulous.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    This has been PB's worst day ever. All the idol worshipping by the Tories for a person who was stabbed in the back - by the same Tories. Says a lot about them and her.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,194
    surbiton said:

    This has been PB's worst day ever. All the idol worshipping by the Tories for a person who was stabbed in the back - by the same Tories. Says a lot about them and her.

    Didn't realise there were so many Tory ex-cabinet minsters browsing PB.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,287

    "In fact there was general incredulity that in the UK someone could resign for a traffic offence ..."

    Perhaps if someone explained the facts to the Spaniards they would not be incredulous.

    Oh I don't know. If half of what I read about Spain is true they would still be pretty amazed...

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,823
    Lord Tom King: Walter Cronkite asked her "Mrs Thatcher, will you accept nomination for President of the United States?"
  • SeanT said:

    OK. Let's widen the debate.

    We all accept (even Roger when he's not being an arse) that Thatcher was a great politician.

    How many other great postwar politicians have their been?

    In western Europe very very few. Perhaps none. De Gaulle was wartime. Adenauer maybe? Hmmm. Across all Europe I'd say Gorbachev, Walesa and Pope John Paul.

    Across the world I'd say

    De Klerk and Mandela
    Lula of Brazil
    Castro (much as I loathe him)
    Pinochet (saved Chile from Marxism)
    Deng Xiao Ping
    Gandhi
    Alex Salmond
    OK that last one was a joke
    Reagan
    JFK if only because of his theatrically-brilliant martyrdom, like Jesus

    Any others?




    Helmut Kohl.

    Architect of German Re-unification and the Euro.
  • @Roger

    Don't worry, all this Thatcher eulogising, like Northern Rock, will be forgotten by next weekend.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Glenda amazed me into delurking: (I paraphrase) heinous economic damage done to my constituency. Hampstead and Highgate. Been there lately? Swathes of post industrial deprivation if you can see past the focaccia and Rioja. Of course all would've been great if Callaghan and Foot had been PMs in the 80s eh? Grim up north Lobdon innit Glenda?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    SeanT. "Pinochet (saved Chile from Marxism)"

    As I suspected. No sensible conversation is possible
  • New Thread.
  • Peter_2Peter_2 Posts: 146
    I am sure Lefties will come up with a pocketful of "statesmen" or great politicians. Some you may even have heard of. Some may not even have bombed ice cream parlours.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    Channel 4 News is actually, and calmly, discussing the possibility that Global Warming is not happening, that climate change is possibly a load of bollocks, and that all the carbon-trading-windmill-building-wankofest is simply a waste of money.

    That's Channel 4 News. i.e. the Guardian-on-TV with better looking reporters.

    Truly, the worm hath turned.

    It was an unusually well constructed analysis for a mainstream news production, with both sides well presented. Bjorn Lomborg was the voice of reason, not denying global warming, just pointing out that the proposed methods of tackling it are similtaneously expensive and ineffective. I have some of his books, and his argument, that money is better invested in newer cheaper non-fossil fuel energy sources and adaptions to living, is a very compelling one.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cool-Skeptical-Environmentalists-Global-Warming/dp/0462099121/ref=la_B001H6WWF2_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1365622410&sr=1-3
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    SeanT said:

    OK. Let's widen the debate.

    We all accept (even Roger when he's not being an arse) that Thatcher was a great politician.

    How many other great postwar politicians have their been?

    In western Europe very very few. Perhaps none. De Gaulle was wartime. Adenauer maybe? Hmmm. Across all Europe I'd say Gorbachev, Walesa and Pope John Paul.

    Across the world I'd say

    De Klerk and Mandela
    Lula of Brazil
    Castro (much as I loathe him)
    Pinochet (saved Chile from Marxism)
    Deng Xiao Ping
    Gandhi
    Alex Salmond
    OK that last one was a joke
    Reagan
    JFK if only because of his theatrically-brilliant martyrdom, like Jesus

    Any others?




    SeanT said:

    OK. Let's widen the debate.

    We all accept (even Roger when he's not being an arse) that Thatcher was a great politician.

    How many other great postwar politicians have their been?

    In western Europe very very few. Perhaps none. De Gaulle was wartime. Adenauer maybe? Hmmm. Across all Europe I'd say Gorbachev, Walesa and Pope John Paul.

    Across the world I'd say

    De Klerk and Mandela
    Lula of Brazil
    Castro (much as I loathe him)
    Pinochet (saved Chile from Marxism)
    Deng Xiao Ping
    Gandhi
    Alex Salmond
    OK that last one was a joke
    Reagan
    JFK if only because of his theatrically-brilliant martyrdom, like Jesus

    Any others?




    SeanT said:

    OK. Let's widen the debate.

    We all accept (even Roger when he's not being an arse) that Thatcher was a great politician.

    How many other great postwar politicians have their been?

    In western Europe very very few. Perhaps none. De Gaulle was wartime. Adenauer maybe? Hmmm. Across all Europe I'd say Gorbachev, Walesa and Pope John Paul.

    Across the world I'd say

    De Klerk and Mandela
    Lula of Brazil
    Castro (much as I loathe him)
    Pinochet (saved Chile from Marxism)
    Deng Xiao Ping
    Gandhi
    Alex Salmond
    OK that last one was a joke
    Reagan
    JFK if only because of his theatrically-brilliant martyrdom, like Jesus

    Any others?




    SeanT said:

    OK. Let's widen the debate.

    We all accept (even Roger when he's not being an arse) that Thatcher was a great politician.

    How many other great postwar politicians have their been?

    In western Europe very very few. Perhaps none. De Gaulle was wartime. Adenauer maybe? Hmmm. Across all Europe I'd say Gorbachev, Walesa and Pope John Paul.

    Across the world I'd say

    De Klerk and Mandela
    Lula of Brazil
    Castro (much as I loathe him)
    Pinochet (saved Chile from Marxism)
    Deng Xiao Ping
    Gandhi
    Alex Salmond
    OK that last one was a joke
    Reagan
    JFK if only because of his theatrically-brilliant martyrdom, like Jesus

    Any others?




  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    LOL. I'm going to have to steal that quote one day.
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Plato said:

    Denis Skinner is not in the House.


    He had a prior appointment with his tailor.

    A Labour MP had to go to the denstist today.
    Ah .... that was Denis Skinner too, he had his wisdom teeth put in !!

This discussion has been closed.