Overall Milliband is having a good Thatcher. A bad one may have hurt him, a good one won't make much difference, but he may gain a notch or two on 'can be seen as PM'
And on the negatives of Mrs Thatcher's tenure of office, UKIP voters' responses in some respects are very similar to those of Labour voters' responses. Both groups are far more concerned about the decline in mining and manufacturing and privatisations than either Lib Dem or Conservative voters.
Socially, Labour and UKIP voters come from similar backgrounds (although their values are quite different).
Great example of a mediocre replacement of better designs.
As was that ludicrous flying wedge of boxiness, the Austin Princess.
It was the complete lack of pride that really got me. Even the features these cars had were only grudgingly put there because the competition had them.
Left to their own devices, they would have been producing trabants.
It is amazing how cars could go from looking so great in the 50s and 60s to looking so utterly crap in the 70s and early 80s.....
Interesting to see that 5% of UKIP voters hate Mrs Thatcher so much that they regard her as having no achievements that they are prepared to pick as greatest. The only other party with a non-negligible number of nil responses is Labour.
That's not surprising, when you consider that one in six UKIP supporters put themselves on the left of the political spectrum.
The first bench in front of LibDems where Skinner, Ronnie Campbell, John Cryer and the old school leftish Labourites usually sit is almost totally empty (there just 1 man at the very end of it).
And on the negatives of Mrs Thatcher's tenure of office, UKIP voters' responses in some respects are very similar to those of Labour voters' responses. Both groups are far more concerned about the decline in mining and manufacturing and privatisations than either Lib Dem or Conservative voters.
Socially, Labour and UKIP voters come from similar backgrounds (although their values are quite different).
I would suggest an alteration to: 'Although we are told their values are quiet different.'
I don't believe the values of the majority of Conservative voters and the majority of Labour voters are that different either.
Most want a fair society in which the vulnerable are protected, the cheats and spivs don't get away with it and the levels of crime are low. They may think there are different ways of arriving there.
RT @DanHannanMEP: 'A man's right to work as he will, spend what he earns, have the State as servant not master: these are the British inheritance.' M Thatcher
RT @jameschappers: Muttering on all sides. House not happy with Clegg's 'not simply heroine or villian' theme #thatcher
Not able to listen in to the speech. Is it more LibDem fence-sitting? Lets not offend anyone and thus appear rather bland and beige?
TBH no, he came across as petulant. Taking the society comment out of context did it for me. He knows better than this. Silly man. Now is not the time for point-scoring.
RT @hopisen: Was going to say naturally Party leaders made good speeches, simple to praise person, critique policies gracefully. But then Clegg spoke..
Lovely to see so much mirth and wit over Mrs T - that's the sign of a well respected leader - when you can poke fun but do it with a genuine smile and laughter with affection.
By the mid 80s it was a pleasure going on international business as a Brit. We were so well respected that doors opened to us in ways that were shut to us in the 1970s. The change was down to Mrs T. Much respect and thanks.
Ken Livingstone seems to have left the DP programme on BBC2 in a huff... "off to do gardening" says Andrew Neil. Clearly did not like Neil pinning to him his admiration for the social market setup in Germany.
Seven hours is overkill, surely. The party leaders, plus a few of the Tories in the house who knew her well would have been sufficient. I really enjoyed Redwood's speech: it was a genuine eye-opener. If he could come across like that more often he may have gone a lot further.
Agreed. This could have been very tricky for him but he's surmounted the hurdles.
Labour chose the right Miliband.
Indeed we did. And as someone who was present at the Fabian Society meeting at which he declared his candidacy on the Saturday after the general election and decided to vote for him on the basis on what I thought the best political speech I had ever heard I am more than delighted that his skills are now becoming widely appreciated.
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Andrew Wakefield, initiator of the bogus MMR scare, is no longer even named in an article about the topic. He's referred to as 'a surgeon'. Given the size of his ego, that's gotta hurt
Sir Malcolm Rifkind (perfect tone uniting house) Ed Miliband (exceeded expectations) David Cameron (met expectations) ..... Nick Clegg (misjudged tone) Angus Robertson (oh dear)
Ken Livingstone seems to have left the DP programme on BBC2 in a huff... "off to do gardening" says Andrew Neil. Clearly did not like Neil pinning to him his admiration for the social market setup in Germany.
Perhaps appearing on Jeremy Kyle would be appropriate? I've only seen the very occasional edition - but stumbled across it today - cripes, what a shocker it was and Mr Kyle did an excellent job of it.
Whatever one may think of his guests - he knows how to handle it and pin down the flakey with a mallet. Watching it on replay is worth it on many levels.
Sir Malcolm Rifkind (perfect tone uniting house) Ed Miliband (exceeded expectations) David Cameron (met expectations) ..... Nick Clegg (misjudged tone) Angus Robertson (oh dear)
Clegg was too analytical, more than it was the right setting for.
We have just had Kinnock speak from his former SPAD Baroness Royall in the HoL on DP show whining about how little Thatcher did for female politicians.....
Sir Malcolm Rifkind (perfect tone uniting house) Ed Miliband (exceeded expectations) David Cameron (met expectations) ..... Nick Clegg (misjudged tone) Angus Robertson (oh dear)
Clegg was too analytical, more than it was the right setting for.
Piffle - Clegg got it wrong. I've seen no one say he called it right bar a tiny handful of LD loyalists.
Ken Livingstone seems to have left the DP programme on BBC2 in a huff... "off to do gardening" says Andrew Neil. Clearly did not like Neil pinning to him his admiration for the social market setup in Germany.
Not surprised, for the first time since Thatcher died an interviewer has been throwing Livingstones real former positions back in his face - pointing out that he would have opposed the German Social Democratic model.
Alasdair MacDonnell of the SDLP showing how you do an 'I didn't like what she stood for' respectfully....
Sir Malcolm Rifkind (perfect tone uniting house) Ed Miliband (exceeded expectations) David Cameron (met expectations) ..... Nick Clegg (misjudged tone) Angus Robertson (oh dear)
Clegg was too analytical, more than it was the right setting for.
Piffle - Clegg got it wrong. I've seen no one say he called it right bar a tiny handful of LD loyalists.
He was off on tone sure.
In terms of content he was more interesting and accurate than the other two, but not really the right setting for that.
Sir Malcolm Rifkind (perfect tone uniting house) Ed Miliband (exceeded expectations) David Cameron (met expectations) ..... Nick Clegg (misjudged tone) Angus Robertson (oh dear)
What about John Redwood? Or did I imagine that he spoke? I thought he was really good and gave an outstanding explanation of what Thatcherism was meant to be all about from one of its arch-proponents. I did not agree, but I could see exactly where he was coming from.
I enjoyed Miliband's speech too - it showed real intelligence, as did Cameron's. Clegg was pretty dire it has to be said.
There's no need for any more now though. They should pack up and go.
Not surprised, for the first time since Thatcher died an interviewer has been throwing Livingstones real former positions back in his face - pointing out that he would have opposed the German Social Democratic model.
Neil is very good, has anyone seen Sky/BBC/ITV point out the rreal facts on mining job loss comparisons under Wilson, Thatcher etc?
The people who voted for Eden must've had their tongue in their cheek, surely. I'd even rate Ted above him.
Rubbish! Eden was a visionary. The Middle East would have none of the problems it has today if his attempt to quell Arab nationalism at the root had been allowed to succeed. Alas the Yanks thwarted it and then regretted it - one of the great blunders of US foreign policy.
Sir Malcolm Rifkind (perfect tone uniting house) Ed Miliband (exceeded expectations) David Cameron (met expectations) ..... Nick Clegg (misjudged tone) Angus Robertson (oh dear)
What about John Redwood? Or did I imagine that he spoke? I thought he was really good and gave an outstanding explanation of what Thatcherism was meant to be all about from one of its arch-proponents. I did not agree, but I could see exactly where he was coming from.
I enjoyed Miliband's speech too - it showed real intelligence, as did Cameron's. Clegg was pretty dire it has to be said.
There's no need for any more now though. They should pack up and go.
You can always turn off now, Southam.
I somehow feel you won't though.
Redwood gave a good speech, so did Nigel Dodds (?). As did Pantsdown in the other place: much better than Clegg. Howard a bit dry.
Sir Malcolm Rifkind (perfect tone uniting house) Ed Miliband (exceeded expectations) David Cameron (met expectations) ..... Nick Clegg (misjudged tone) Angus Robertson (oh dear)
What about John Redwood? Or did I imagine that he spoke? I thought he was really good and gave an outstanding explanation of what Thatcherism was meant to be all about from one of its arch-proponents. I did not agree, but I could see exactly where he was coming from.
I enjoyed Miliband's speech too - it showed real intelligence, as did Cameron's. Clegg was pretty dire it has to be said.
There's no need for any more now though. They should pack up and go.
You can always turn off now, Southam.
I somehow feel you won't though.
Redwood gave a good speech, so did Nigel Dodds (?). As did Pantsdown in the other place: much better than Clegg. Howard a bit dry.
Clegg never seems to pull off these big occasions, I'm not sure why?
It's either because he's not very good at writing/making speeches or its because he follows Cameron and Miliband and by the time you get to him everything that needs to be said has already been said.
Ultimately there is no party political advantage in this for anybody though.
For me it was 1982 and Britain was still officially crap. I was watching the world snooker championship and the program was interrupted to bring you, utterly bizarrely, coverage of balaclava wearing MIBs hurtling through windows at the Iranian embassy.
Counter terrorism hadn't even been really heard of before. The 70s was one long line of surrender monkeys from all over the world giving in to militants.
Suddenly we weren;t the sick man of Europe. We were top dog at the world's coolest, most difficult and most dangerous activity.
I believe so. It can't last that long though, surely.
If I have counted correctly, relying on the Guardian live blog, there have been eight speeches in the first hour of the debate, which would equate to 56 speeches in the full seven hours.
Even with many Labour absentees, I would have thought there would be plenty enough MPs who will want to put their words on the record to keep the show going on that long.
<blockquote class="Quote" rel="carl">A classy operator, Ed Miliband, isn't he?
No-one is underestimating him now, let alone thinking he's crap.</blockquote>
Sorry, but I still don't think Ed Miliband looks or acts in any way Prime Ministerial and assuming he somehow manages to luck his way into Downing Street because Cameron and Osborne are so useless, I would expect Ed Milibands time as Prime Minister to be nothing other than a complete and total disaster.
For me it was 1982 and Britain was still officially crap. I was watching the world snooker championship and the program was interrupted to bring you, utterly bizarrely, coverage of balaclava wearing MIBs hurtling through windows at the Iranian embassy.
Counter terrorism hadn't even been really heard of before. The 70s was one long line of surrender monkeys from all over the world giving in to militants.
Suddenly we weren;t the sick man of Europe. We were top dog at the world's coolest, most difficult and most dangerous activity.
I don't think that the Israeli raid on Entebbe was the action of surrender monkeys. Blowing in a few windows in Belgravia was a cinch in comparison.
There's a huge graffiti work near my office about the death of Thatcher. Some enterprising freelance photographer should snap it as I'm sure some 'papers would use it.
Comments
Labour chose the right Miliband.
The first bench in front of LibDems where Skinner, Ronnie Campbell, John Cryer and the old school leftish Labourites usually sit is almost totally empty (there just 1 man at the very end of it).
Cameron was excellent as he always is on such occasions.
I don't believe the values of the majority of Conservative voters and the majority of Labour voters are that different either.
Most want a fair society in which the vulnerable are protected, the cheats and spivs don't get away with it and the levels of crime are low. They may think there are different ways of arriving there.
He's just used the 'no such thing as society' out of context quote.
Good days for Cameron & Miliband....not so good for Clegg.
http://audioboo.fm/boos/1321057
Cameron's:
http://www.conservatives.com/News/Speeches/2013/04/David_Cameron_Tribute_to_Lady_Thatcher.aspx
RT @hopisen: Was going to say naturally Party leaders made good speeches, simple to praise person, critique policies gracefully. But then Clegg spoke..
He's in Cannes at MIPTV
His son Hugo is a superb columnist.
"No10 says 'True Blue' has been used as Whitehall codename for Thatcher funeral since at least 2006 under Blair. Oh dear, Andy Burnham"
Sounds like Nick Clegg has fallen to the occasion again
How hard can it be to just be nice when someone dies? Clearly a handful can't manage it despite many years in public life.
what? are they going on for 7 hours?!!
Oh how the mighty have fallen. Andrew Wakefield, initiator of the bogus MMR scare, is no longer even named in an article about the topic. He's referred to as 'a surgeon'. Given the size of his ego, that's gotta hurt
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22089485
Sir Malcolm Rifkind (perfect tone uniting house)
Ed Miliband (exceeded expectations)
David Cameron (met expectations)
.....
Nick Clegg (misjudged tone)
Angus Robertson (oh dear)
Whatever one may think of his guests - he knows how to handle it and pin down the flakey with a mallet. Watching it on replay is worth it on many levels.
Alasdair MacDonnell of the SDLP showing how you do an 'I didn't like what she stood for' respectfully....
Damned by faint praise....
In terms of content he was more interesting and accurate than the other two, but not really the right setting for that.
RT @chrisg0000: @hilarybennmp Will you recognise that 500,000 Miners had been sacked before she even got in power? Somehow I bet you won't
I enjoyed Miliband's speech too - it showed real intelligence, as did Cameron's. Clegg was pretty dire it has to be said.
There's no need for any more now though. They should pack up and go.
Ed Miliband's tribute to Margaret Thatcher was perfectly judged: moving, eloquent, generous without fawning
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100211566/ed-milibands-tribute-to-margaret-thatcher-was-perfectly-judged-moving-eloquent-generous-without-fawning/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
I somehow feel you won't though.
Redwood gave a good speech, so did Nigel Dodds (?). As did Pantsdown in the other place: much better than Clegg. Howard a bit dry.
"Can one imagine the concept of an Italian Maggie Thatcher?"
Andrea?
No-one is underestimating him now, let alone thinking he's crap.
Clegg never seems to pull off these big occasions, I'm not sure why?
It's either because he's not very good at writing/making speeches or its because he follows Cameron and Miliband and by the time you get to him everything that needs to be said has already been said.
Ultimately there is no party political advantage in this for anybody though.
For me it was 1982 and Britain was still officially crap. I was watching the world snooker championship and the program was interrupted to bring you, utterly bizarrely, coverage of balaclava wearing MIBs hurtling through windows at the Iranian embassy.
Counter terrorism hadn't even been really heard of before. The 70s was one long line of surrender monkeys from all over the world giving in to militants.
Suddenly we weren;t the sick man of Europe. We were top dog at the world's coolest, most difficult and most dangerous activity.
I'm trying to work out whether that's good or bad for him! Dan Hodges will tell us.
Even with many Labour absentees, I would have thought there would be plenty enough MPs who will want to put their words on the record to keep the show going on that long.
No-one is underestimating him now, let alone thinking he's crap.</blockquote>
Sorry, but I still don't think Ed Miliband looks or acts in any way Prime Ministerial and assuming he somehow manages to luck his way into Downing Street because Cameron and Osborne are so useless, I would expect Ed Milibands time as Prime Minister to be nothing other than a complete and total disaster.
Sorry, Sir Malcolm.
If 'great performance on state occasions' was all that was required of a PM, Cameron would have few worries....
Greatest PM , really ? O
At least, something good thing is happening. £10 million of public spending will take place because of the elaborate funeral.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/9984646/Woman-behind-street-parties-to-celebrate-death-of-Margaret-Thatcher-named.html