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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Moggy moves to his highest betting level yet for next CON lead

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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Ms Toffolo apparently thinks Mogg is " a sex god".Can't quite it see it myself.Surely he has way to go in any shagging competition for the Tory leadership.How big an issue is shaggability with Tory MPs and the largely elderly members of the Tory party?Could this observation be behing the Mogg surge in the betting?
    Who cares if he's a dangerous climate change denying fossil when Jacob's a sex god?
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    This thread may never end: list of things Corbyn has said wrt foreign policy:

    https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/964068495616040961
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,090

    Jacob Rees Mogg seems to make Tories feel good about themselves, just as Corbyn makes many Labour members feel good about themselves. For that reason, he - like Corbyn - is also going to be a very polarising figure.

    Rees Mogg is a Tory who would force me into voting Labour in my marginal Labour constituency, just as I am sure there are many centrists who lean a little further to the right than me who will always vote Tory to keep Corbyn away from power.

    My guess is that JRM v Corbyn would be a score draw, as would Johnson v Corbyn. If the Tories skip a generation and find a leader not too closely associated with their right flank and Brexit, the next election is theirs for the taking.

    Skip the current generation and go for Ken Clarke?

    I'd say give Johnny Mercer a couple of years in a government job and see if he can put some solid achievement next to his extraordinary back story. If he can, then you are looking at a very big majority. However, there are two obstacles:
    1. May's sole focus is on ensuring her own position.
    2. The Tory membership seems to be getting as fundamental as the Labour one.

    I don't know if making it to OF-2 in the Planks is an "extraordinary" back story. They are not exactly a regiment renowned for recruiting the cream of Sandhurst. Plus, everyone will have to SPEAK UP at PMQ.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited February 2018
    @Nick Palmer



    We all want the "goodies". We all want "safety", lower classroom sizes, a "better", NHS (or more precisely better healthcare), a less polluted environment, better roads, cheaper rail, bigger pensions, more meals on wheels etc etc . No real dispute there. I'm very sympathetic to all of that.

    It's the means that's my main issue. Labour policy has quite a history of falling foul of the law of unintended consequences, that can make the outcomes worse (they are far from alone of course but I just think they seem more prone to it). The 2004 Pension Act is one example in my view. Impeccably intentioned, a big improvement in protecting those already with final salary provision, but has ended up contributing to destroying the whole system as a consequence I'm afraid, to the general detriment, which will become apparent in future decades.

    And paying for it. There is just no way on God's earth that the last manifesto was going to be paid for by only taxing those more on £85K plus. No way. It was all the unspoken things that were doubtless going to be hit - council tax, NI, IHT, capital gains, stamp duty, "sin taxes", etc etc. At least allow the possibility that if you soak the rich/business too much some will clear off and you will be taxing a high percentage of nothing at all. Which is counter productive.

    Now there maybe a case to say "you want the goodies we are all going to have to pay to some extent, the "rich" more, but even you too Mr and Mrs lower down the income scale", but this constant "only those richer than you will pay", undermines credibility. (At least in my view).

    And yes we do as a country need a credible alternative, because the present lot are not exactly 5 out of 5 stars are they?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,040
    welshowl said:

    @Nick Palmer



    We all want the "goodies". We all want "safety", lower classroom sizes, a "better", NHS (or more precisely better healthcare), a less polluted environment, better roads, cheaper rail, bigger pensions, more meals on wheels etc etc . No real dispute there. I'm very sympathetic to all of that.

    It's the means that's my main issue. Labour policy has quite a history of falling foul of the law of unintended consequences, that can make the outcomes worse (they are far from alone of course but I just think they seem more prone to it). The 2004 Pension Act is one example in my view. Impeccably intentioned, a big improvement in protecting those already with final salary provision, but has ended up contributing to destroying the whole system as a consequence I'm afraid, to the general detriment, which will become apparent in future decades.

    And paying for it. There is just no way on God's earth that the last manifesto was going to be paid for by only taxing those more on £85K plus. No way. It was all the unspoken things that were doubtless going to be hit - council tax, NI, IHT, capital gains, stamp duty, "sin taxes", etc etc. At least allow the possibility that if you soak the rich/business too much some will clear off and you will be taxing a high percentage of nothing at all. Which is counter productive.

    Now there maybe a case to say "you want the goodies we are all going to have to pay to some extent, the "rich" more, but even you too Mr and Mrs lower down the income scale", but this constant "only those richer than you will pay", undermines credibility. (At least in my view).

    And yes we do as a country need a credible alternative, because the present lot are not exactly 5 out of 5 stars are they?

    We're all going to be rinsed. But Corbyn would rinse us more !
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    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    Nick are the Tories more to blame for austerity, or for not cutting the deficit?
    And is the increase in violent crime in London and Manchester anything to do with the moped mugging gangs that the police have decided it’s too dangerous to chase in case the poor young muggers might get injured? Questions for Mr Khan and Mr Burnham.
    You live in Dubai. So what has any of this got to do with you? If I, living in England, spent vast amounts of time on a Dubai website moaning about politics in Dubai would you not find that slightly odd?

    On topic, the police also do not want to risk injury of innocent pedestrians and bystanders
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    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Cyclefree said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/


    You can't have lots of good things on the cheap, Nick. I agree.

    But your Shadow Chancellor is promising all sorts of improvements and claiming that all of these can be paid for by taxing a few rich people. And this is simply not credible. If we want these good things all of us are going to have to pay more. Labour would gain more respect if it was honest on this point rather than pretending otherwise.
    100% agree. It was patently dishonest of Corbyn to claim during the election that his long shopping list of spending could be funded by spending a small rise in corporation tax over and over again and not raising income tax for everyone.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited February 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    With all due respect, Nick, this may be a problem with the PPB. It moves you and probably a lot of other Labour people. But in doing that, I wonder if it is speaking to the voters that Labour needs to reach out to in order to win. There are many victims of government policy and they need to be helped, but in order for that to happen Labour has to be in power. That means reaching beyond its comfort zone and talking to those with aspirations, too. How will Labour help them and their families?

    Presumably the thinking is (if thinking is the sort of thing they do at Lab HQ) that whereas previously, people accepted that Tories were nasty, but at least they knew how to run the economy, what with all this Brexit shenanigans, they don't appear to be able to run the economy any more so the focus can be solely on their nastiness.
    I think Labour Hq believe the conservative record on policing is worth pursuing.http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/15994388.North_Yorkshire_Police_failing_to_record_one_in_five_crimes/ If North Yorkshire Police are failing to record one in five crimes properly .A mainly rural force , it does not look good.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    Cyclefree said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    With all due respect, Nick, this may be a problem with the PPB. It moves you and probably a lot of other Labour people. But in doing that, I wonder if it is speaking to the voters that Labour needs to reach out to in order to win. There are many victims of government policy and they need to be helped, but in order for that to happen Labour has to be in power. That means reaching beyond its comfort zone and talking to those with aspirations, too. How will Labour help them and their families?

    Yes, there's a lot in that. I suppose my problem with the latter years of Tony and Gordon was that we focused so exclusively on winning that we rather forgot why we were trying to win, and one reason I like the current approach is that it redresses that balance.

    Also, I think we too easily categorise people as sturdy strivers or suffering underclass or other broad groups and assume they lack interest in other groups. I know quite a few people who are very successful but still worry that society around them is crumbling and who would be moved by some of the conversations in the video. As IIRC Sean Fear has observed, even at a selfish level people who are well off don't want society to be so divided as to drive revolutionary change - and most people aren't only selfish either. The belief that a period of focus on the losers from the current system would be healthy is IMO quite widely shared, and some Conservatives who wouldn't want 15 years of Labour government wouldn't mind 5 years of it while the Tories sort themselves out.

    Focusing on the losers is perfectly honourable. But see my previous comment.

    Also one criticism of Labour that it needs to deal with is that its policies may not help the losers. Indeed, may make things worse for them. It would do Labour good if it actually tried to address these criticisms rather than waving them away.
    Reducing low skilled immigration as well as redistributing wealth from the rich to the poor would be policies focused solely on the 'losers'
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,978

    This thread may never end: list of things Corbyn has said wrt foreign policy:

    https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/964068495616040961

    Quite scary really. And Corbyn does need to be scrutinised on every one of these points
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    HHemmelig said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    Nick are the Tories more to blame for austerity, or for not cutting the deficit?
    And is the increase in violent crime in London and Manchester anything to do with the moped mugging gangs that the police have decided it’s too dangerous to chase in case the poor young muggers might get injured? Questions for Mr Khan and Mr Burnham.
    You live in Dubai. So what has any of this got to do with you? If I, living in England, spent vast amounts of time on a Dubai website moaning about politics in Dubai would you not find that slightly odd?

    On topic, the police also do not want to risk injury of innocent pedestrians and bystanders
    To be honest , I think Sandpit was more concerned about the politicians mentioned.
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    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044

    This thread may never end: list of things Corbyn has said wrt foreign policy:

    https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/964068495616040961

    Quite scary really. And Corbyn does need to be scrutinised on every one of these points
    The Sun aside, which is a nasty right wing rag which sets out to destroy all Labour leaders, nevertheless all his life Corbyn has played student union politics preferring ridiculous postures to well thought out policies.
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    William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346
    edited February 2018
    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    Nick are the Tories more to blame for austerity, or for not cutting the deficit?
    Austerity made it harder to cut the deficit.

    To be fair, Osborne wasn't half as austere as everyone pretends, though. He knew he had to have some growth for the election, and eased off considerably.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,552
    .
    William_H said:

    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    Nick are the Tories more to blame for austerity, or for not cutting the deficit?
    Austerity made it harder to cut the deficit.

    To be fair, Osborne wasn't half as austere as everyone pretends, though. He knew he had to have some growth for the election, and eased off considerably.
    So you think there has been austerity?
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    woody662woody662 Posts: 255
    TOPPING said:

    .

    William_H said:

    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    Nick are the Tories more to blame for austerity, or for not cutting the deficit?
    Austerity made it harder to cut the deficit.

    To be fair, Osborne wasn't half as austere as everyone pretends, though. He knew he had to have some growth for the election, and eased off considerably.
    So you think there has been austerity?
    I tried to argue with my bank once that spending more money would reduce my overdraft but they wouldn't have it.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    edited February 2018
    TOPPING said:

    .

    William_H said:

    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    Nick are the Tories more to blame for austerity, or for not cutting the deficit?
    Austerity made it harder to cut the deficit.

    To be fair, Osborne wasn't half as austere as everyone pretends, though. He knew he had to have some growth for the election, and eased off considerably.
    So you think there has been austerity?
    Spending as a percentage of GDP has fallen from about 48% in 2010 to about 42% now, Osborne had he stayed Chancellor wanted to reduce it to 35%, about the same as the tax take
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,552
    No offence to anyone but curling is pretty ridiculous. Watching it and listening to the commentary makes it seem more absurd still.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,728
    edited February 2018
    TOPPING said:

    No offence to anyone but curling is pretty ridiculous. Watching it and listening to the commentary makes it seem more absurd still.

    It's basically glorified street sweeping isn't it.

    Might as well make shove ha'penny an Olympic sport too.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TOPPING said:

    No offence to anyone but curling is pretty ridiculous. Watching it and listening to the commentary makes it seem more absurd still.

    @HansFiene: The Winter Olympics are fun because 85% of the events would kill you if you tried them:
    Giant slalom - dead
    Half pipe - dead
    Ski jumping - dead
    Curling - fine
    Luge - dead
    Skeleton - backwards dead
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    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    Disappointing to see Latin and the classics at the bottom.

    History should also be higher.

    The skills/knowledge I learned in history, classics, latin alongside maths and the sciences helped me so much in my professional career.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252

    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    Disappointing to see Latin and the classics at the bottom.

    History should also be higher.

    The skills/knowledge I learned in history, classics, latin alongside maths and the sciences helped me so much in my professional career.
    Agree on History, though it is still about mid table
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    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    O tempora, o mores!
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    stevef said:

    .... student union politics preferring ridiculous postures to well thought out policies.

    Tories ... Europe.....

    :D
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,852
    TOPPING said:

    No offence to anyone but curling is pretty ridiculous. Watching it and listening to the commentary makes it seem more absurd still.

    Curling is a great sport to play however. Experts and beginners can play together and both will get a lot of enjoyment out of it at their different skill levels.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,044
    edited February 2018
    HHemmelig said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    Nick are the Tories more to blame for austerity, or for not cutting the deficit?
    And is the increase in violent crime in London and Manchester anything to do with the moped mugging gangs that the police have decided it’s too dangerous to chase in case the poor young muggers might get injured? Questions for Mr Khan and Mr Burnham.
    You live in Dubai. So what has any of this got to do with you? If I, living in England, spent vast amounts of time on a Dubai website moaning about politics in Dubai would you not find that slightly odd?

    On topic, the police also do not want to risk injury of innocent pedestrians and bystanders
    Yes I spend time abroad, that doesn’t mean that I want my home country’s capital city to get a reputation as a place where tourists avoid because there’s a good chance of getting mugged - and the police not giving a shit in case it infringes the human rights of the criminals, or they hurt themselves when on mopeds with no helmets.

    New York and Barcelona, among other places, have had that reputation in years past, and the cities’ mayors worked bloody hard to turn them around. What does Mr Khan have to say about the police refusing to chase violent criminals? He is the elected representative in charge of policing in London.

    I’ll leave you to guess how the police in Dubai might react to such crime.
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    The other thing about curling that annoys me.

    They make more noise than women tennis players.

    I'm in a hotel room, anyone walking by will be thinking I'm watching porn.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    Disappointing to see Latin and the classics at the bottom.
    No it is not. I would put them both in Room 101.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,044

    The other thing about curling that annoys me.

    They make more noise than women tennis players.

    I'm in a hotel room, anyone walking by will be thinking I'm watching porn.

    Did you say you were in Porto?
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    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    Disappointing to see Latin and the classics at the bottom.
    No it is not. I would put them both in Room 101.
    I love my history, classics, and Latin, people who don't like them I hold them in even more contempt than people who like pineapple on pizza.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,852
    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    I don't think Latin is a must have, but I recommend it. There's something thrilling about communicating with a writer from two thousand years ago who thought he had something important to say and you're the one he is talking to.
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    Sandpit said:

    The other thing about curling that annoys me.

    They make more noise than women tennis players.

    I'm in a hotel room, anyone walking by will be thinking I'm watching porn.

    Did you say you were in Porto?
    Nope, I had tickets to go, but unfortunately events got in the way.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    woody662 said:

    TOPPING said:

    .

    William_H said:

    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    Nick are the Tories more to blame for austerity, or for not cutting the deficit?
    Austerity made it harder to cut the deficit.

    To be fair, Osborne wasn't half as austere as everyone pretends, though. He knew he had to have some growth for the election, and eased off considerably.
    So you think there has been austerity?
    I tried to argue with my bank once that spending more money would reduce my overdraft but they wouldn't have it.
    Yes but unlike you the B of E can just print some more to bail the bank out.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,241
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    I don't think Latin is a must have, but I recommend it. There's something thrilling about communicating with a writer from two thousand years ago who thought he had something important to say and you're the one he is talking to.
    That's a lovely way of putting it.

    I think the issue is the teachers. I was fairly mathematically inclined, and at middle school I had a maths teacher who nurtured that inclination and allowed it to grow. Whereas I found history at school to be a boring task of learning names and dates by rote, and in no way exciting. Which is a shame, because as I've grown older I've found history increasingly engaging.

    Much of it is down to teachers. And sadly, what catches the mind and imagination of one child, might leave another cold and unenthused.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    Disappointing to see Latin and the classics at the bottom.
    No it is not. I would put them both in Room 101.
    I love my history, classics, and Latin, people who don't like them I hold them in even more contempt than people who like pineapple on pizza.
    I do not like pizza either. Pineapple is OK though and makes an excellent meat tenderiser.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,313
    This piece makes a very good case for a second referendum:

    https://thepinprick.com/2018/02/15/brexit-is-a-civil-war-and-a-second-referendum-is-the-only-viable-path-to-a-lasting-peace/

    The situation in 2018 is very different indeed to that of 2016. Most British people are now aware of the intricacies of our relationship with the EU, most people are now better informed and on that basis a second referendum would be fairer than the first.

    “But what if we lost?” I’m often asked by people on my side. Well – easy. This time Remainers would be obliged for the sake of the whole country to respect the result and shut up (for a bit). There is no guarantee at all that Remain would win – but a second vote on the deal would at least put this tiresome and protracted engagement to rest.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,552
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    No offence to anyone but curling is pretty ridiculous. Watching it and listening to the commentary makes it seem more absurd still.

    Curling is a great sport to play however. Experts and beginners can play together and both will get a lot of enjoyment out of it at their different skill levels.
    I will need more convincing.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,044

    Sandpit said:

    The other thing about curling that annoys me.

    They make more noise than women tennis players.

    I'm in a hotel room, anyone walking by will be thinking I'm watching porn.

    Did you say you were in Porto?
    Nope, I had tickets to go, but unfortunately events got in the way.
    Ah bugger. I was slightly annoyed at having given up last night for steak and champagne with the Mrs, to find out we ran them out of their home town.
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    Mr Mogg cuts a dashing patrician figure with at a distance politness and a willingness to debate and andwer questions. It works to a degree, except to me it seems a vaneer that;s peeling at the edges and if you try to scratch at the curly bits he either snarls or comes out some disnegenious bullshit.

    What fixed this is my mind was whole gay marriage debate. He was very vocal in his opposition, whether because of his hate the sin not the sinner (traditional christian position), or because Cameron was for (pathetic) or to curry favour with the grass roots. But there he was on TV spouting off that is was not the right time to do this, we were in the middle of an economic crisis, some other time etc. It was such obvious bullshit. The gay marriage conumed more column inches than actual parliamentry time, it cost almost nothing to do and it was a matter of equality. I failed to see how much higher economic growth would have been if the gays had to lump it. Hearing hime burble on I could see that in reality there would never be time in the governments busy schedule if it was up to him.

    I am also deeply dubious on his position abortion saying it was just a private matter etc.

    While many may think such rights are no largely won, the reality they can wither on vine if access to employee arbitration is cut, funding is elimnated for clinics, family planning, or prosecution of those who flout the law.

    As can be seen when the government goes mendacious as in the USA, many states have elminated abortion clinics by constantly increasing standards that strangley require expensive rebuilding of buildings for wider corriders and doors etc, or cutting funding to fmailt planing in general and most state provided pre natal care. Many fly over states either no longer have any clinics or just down to one or two in the main cities.

    I don't trust JRM and if you follow the BTL comments on a conservative website their seems to sizeable element that just wants the right to be nasty to those groups they don't like. I fear JRM might not even feed that side of the COnservative ID that much, but benign neglect on that front, or worse how for example thought Section 28 was not a big deal, just a bit or red meat to feed the backwoodsman.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    FF43 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    I don't think Latin is a must have, but I recommend it. There's something thrilling about communicating with a writer from two thousand years ago who thought he had something important to say and you're the one he is talking to.
    I loved the fact that at school I was told that Pliny's description of the lava flow at Pompeii (which I was translating) involved some considerable artistic licence before pyroclastic flows were properly understood or appreciated. His description was indeed spot on.
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    HYUFD said:

    Voters consider English, Maths, Science and Computing the most important school subjects, Latin the least

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/english-maths-science-and-computing-are-most-impor/

    History should also be higher.
    .
    So Magna Carta did die in vain....
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    This piece makes a very good case for a second referendum:

    https://thepinprick.com/2018/02/15/brexit-is-a-civil-war-and-a-second-referendum-is-the-only-viable-path-to-a-lasting-peace/

    The situation in 2018 is very different indeed to that of 2016. Most British people are now aware of the intricacies of our relationship with the EU, most people are now better informed and on that basis a second referendum would be fairer than the first.

    “But what if we lost?” I’m often asked by people on my side. Well – easy. This time Remainers would be obliged for the sake of the whole country to respect the result and shut up (for a bit). There is no guarantee at all that Remain would win – but a second vote on the deal would at least put this tiresome and protracted engagement to rest.


    LOL. Nice try.

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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    This piece makes a very good case for a second referendum:

    I think he makes a better case for simply not bothering.

    The two sides are entrenched and a sort of equilibrium has emerged and it will persist until something external perturbs it. If another EU country exited or if some company laid off thousands of workers because of Brexit then movement of some sort will happen.

    My money is rather simply on industry wondering what the heck it is going to do in 2019. There is absolutely sod-all guidance from the politicians and so industrial and investment decisions will have to be made in that vacuum.

    It is a shambles, but without a major event pointing the finger clearly at Brexit or the EU, this stasis will continue.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,497
    Sandpit said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Really quite a moving PPB in my opinion, though probably too long for most viewers. Whether and how to link these issues to politics is a difficult question, but when the causes seem to be politicial somho you have to.

    https://labourlist.org/2018/02/watch-you-cant-have-community-safety-on-the-cheap-labours-new-party-political-broadcast/

    Nick are the Tories more to blame for austerity, or for not cutting the deficit?
    And is the increase in violent crime in London and Manchester anything to do with the moped mugging gangs that the police have decided it’s too dangerous to chase in case the poor young muggers might get injured? Questions for Mr Khan and Mr Burnham.
    You live in Dubai. So what has any of this got to do with you? If I, living in England, spent vast amounts of time on a Dubai website moaning about politics in Dubai would you not find that slightly odd?

    On topic, the police also do not want to risk injury of innocent pedestrians and bystanders
    Yes I spend time abroad, that doesn’t mean that I want my home country’s capital city to get a reputation as a place where tourists avoid because there’s a good chance of getting mugged - and the police not giving a shit in case it infringes the human rights of the criminals, or they hurt themselves when on mopeds with no helmets.

    New York and Barcelona, among other places, have had that reputation in years past, and the cities’ mayors worked bloody hard to turn them around. What does Mr Khan have to say about the police refusing to chase violent criminals? He is the elected representative in charge of policing in London.

    I’ll leave you to guess how the police in Dubai might react to such crime.
    Are you sure teenagers being the wrong end of a Glock17 is the answer? The day after a mass shooting in Florida, do we really want to venture down that route?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    if some company laid off thousands of workers because of Brexit then movement of some sort will happen.

    My money is rather simply on industry wondering what the heck it is going to do in 2019. There is absolutely sod-all guidance from the politicians and so industrial and investment decisions will have to be made in that vacuum.

    Jaguar Land Rover is one to keep an eye on.

    They are in the middle of a multi-million pound investment at Gaydon, and with the latest sales figures are struggling to pay for it
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,929
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    No offence to anyone but curling is pretty ridiculous. Watching it and listening to the commentary makes it seem more absurd still.

    Curling is a great sport to play however. Experts and beginners can play together and both will get a lot of enjoyment out of it at their different skill levels.
    Played for the first time over Christmas - was a lot of fun.
    Not convinced the brushing made much difference...
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,852

    The two sides are entrenched and a sort of equilibrium has emerged and it will persist until something external perturbs it. If another EU country exited or if some company laid off thousands of workers because of Brexit then movement of some sort will happen.

    My money is rather simply on industry wondering what the heck it is going to do in 2019. There is absolutely sod-all guidance from the politicians and so industrial and investment decisions will have to be made in that vacuum.

    It is a shambles, but without a major event pointing the finger clearly at Brexit or the EU, this stasis will continue.

    As I said last night, investment is diverting from the UK to the continent on a big scale. Foreign Direct Investment in 2017 was one tenth that of 2016. Idiot Liam Fox was bragging about FDIs, claiming it was a record-breaking year in 2017. Investment in motor manufacturing is down to less than a half over two years and these are supposedly boom times. Andreas Drombet the Bundesbank chief who was all for keeping the City in the European system for continuity has now given up and told banks based in Britain just get it over with and move to the rEU. There's no point hanging on.

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    NEW THREAD

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    rkrkrk said:

    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    No offence to anyone but curling is pretty ridiculous. Watching it and listening to the commentary makes it seem more absurd still.

    Curling is a great sport to play however. Experts and beginners can play together and both will get a lot of enjoyment out of it at their different skill levels.
    Played for the first time over Christmas - was a lot of fun.
    Not convinced the brushing made much difference...
    Then I would suggest that you weren't doing it right. There was a fascinating off topic link the other day about an article about why ice is slippery which was relevant. It is all to do with there being a fine layer of liquid on the surface that reduces friction. The brushing is designed to increase the volume of liquid on the surface of the ice so that the stone moves more smoothly over it and therefore both goes further and turns more. If you want the stone to go less far you simply don't sweep.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,543
    FF43 said:

    The two sides are entrenched and a sort of equilibrium has emerged and it will persist until something external perturbs it. If another EU country exited or if some company laid off thousands of workers because of Brexit then movement of some sort will happen.

    My money is rather simply on industry wondering what the heck it is going to do in 2019. There is absolutely sod-all guidance from the politicians and so industrial and investment decisions will have to be made in that vacuum.

    It is a shambles, but without a major event pointing the finger clearly at Brexit or the EU, this stasis will continue.

    As I said last night, investment is diverting from the UK to the continent on a big scale. Foreign Direct Investment in 2017 was one tenth that of 2016. Idiot Liam Fox was bragging about FDIs, claiming it was a record-breaking year in 2017. Investment in motor manufacturing is down to less than a half over two years and these are supposedly boom times. Andreas Drombet the Bundesbank chief who was all for keeping the City in the European system for continuity has now given up and told banks based in Britain just get it over with and move to the rEU. There's no point hanging on.

    No doubt all of this explains why we are now enjoying the longest increase in manufacturing output for about 20 years. Or not.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    FF43 said:

    The two sides are entrenched and a sort of equilibrium has emerged and it will persist until something external perturbs it. If another EU country exited or if some company laid off thousands of workers because of Brexit then movement of some sort will happen.

    My money is rather simply on industry wondering what the heck it is going to do in 2019. There is absolutely sod-all guidance from the politicians and so industrial and investment decisions will have to be made in that vacuum.

    It is a shambles, but without a major event pointing the finger clearly at Brexit or the EU, this stasis will continue.

    As I said last night, investment is diverting from the UK to the continent on a big scale. Foreign Direct Investment in 2017 was one tenth that of 2016. Idiot Liam Fox was bragging about FDIs, claiming it was a record-breaking year in 2017. Investment in motor manufacturing is down to less than a half over two years and these are supposedly boom times. Andreas Drombet the Bundesbank chief who was all for keeping the City in the European system for continuity has now given up and told banks based in Britain just get it over with and move to the rEU. There's no point hanging on.

    Do you have a link for FDI down 90%?
    I haven’t seen that elsewhere...
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    The two sides are entrenched and a sort of equilibrium has emerged and it will persist until something external perturbs it. If another EU country exited or if some company laid off thousands of workers because of Brexit then movement of some sort will happen.

    My money is rather simply on industry wondering what the heck it is going to do in 2019. There is absolutely sod-all guidance from the politicians and so industrial and investment decisions will have to be made in that vacuum.

    It is a shambles, but without a major event pointing the finger clearly at Brexit or the EU, this stasis will continue.

    As I said last night, investment is diverting from the UK to the continent on a big scale. Foreign Direct Investment in 2017 was one tenth that of 2016. Idiot Liam Fox was bragging about FDIs, claiming it was a record-breaking year in 2017. Investment in motor manufacturing is down to less than a half over two years and these are supposedly boom times. Andreas Drombet the Bundesbank chief who was all for keeping the City in the European system for continuity has now given up and told banks based in Britain just get it over with and move to the rEU. There's no point hanging on.

    No doubt all of this explains why we are now enjoying the longest increase in manufacturing output for about 20 years. Or not.
    No, thats caused by the collapse in the pound, and strong growth in our primary export market: the EU.
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