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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Moggy moves to his highest betting level yet for next CON lead

SystemSystem Posts: 11,693
edited February 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Moggy moves to his highest betting level yet for next CON leader following negative reaction to BoJo’s Brexit speech

I’ve not bet on Moggy for next CON leader because I still don’t think that he’d get to the final membership ballot round of a leadership contest. As the chart show he’s now soared on the Betfair exchange.

Read the full story here


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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited February 2018
    Moggy and Mrs Slocombe's pussy comes to mind ....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unmkX15AeN8

    Never knowingly undersold ....
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321
    JackW said:

    Moggy and Mrs Slocombe's pussy comes to mind ....

    That is possibly the most awful mental image ever conjured by a PB post. It's even worse than Corbyn and Abbott.
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    For my mother, a moggy is a mouse not a cat. Apparently that’s from her local dialect, so she claims.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    ydoethur said:

    JackW said:

    Moggy and Mrs Slocombe's pussy comes to mind ....

    That is possibly the most awful mental image ever conjured by a PB post. It's even worse than Corbyn and Abbott.
    We aim to please ....
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027

    For my mother, a moggy is a mouse not a cat. Apparently that’s from her local dialect, so she claims.

    Wiktionary says 'Alternatively, in Wigan, moggy traditionally applied to mice, not cats, and a cat was hence a moggy catcher, which may have been abbreviated to moggy'

    So if your mother is a Wiganer, she's telling the truth. And you should believe what your mother tells you!
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    For my mother, a moggy is a mouse not a cat. Apparently that’s from her local dialect, so she claims.

    Wiktionary says 'Alternatively, in Wigan, moggy traditionally applied to mice, not cats, and a cat was hence a moggy catcher, which may have been abbreviated to moggy'

    So if your mother is a Wiganer, she's telling the truth. And you should believe what your mother tells you!
    My mum is from Fazeley, near Tamworth. It was a mining village with a lot of Yorkshire mining ancestry, so not a Midlands accent at all when my mum was young.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Foggy moggy personifies the liberal, future looking, down-to-earth Brexit. A man for our times.

    Like someone out of Dickens.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Scrooge and Mogg.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,313
    What a comment on the lack of leadership potential within the Tory top ranks.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    Of the seven names mentioned there, at least four are lays including the top three (and the other isn’t even eligible to stand!). JRM’s odds are bonkers.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027

    For my mother, a moggy is a mouse not a cat. Apparently that’s from her local dialect, so she claims.

    Wiktionary says 'Alternatively, in Wigan, moggy traditionally applied to mice, not cats, and a cat was hence a moggy catcher, which may have been abbreviated to moggy'

    So if your mother is a Wiganer, she's telling the truth. And you should believe what your mother tells you!
    My mum is from Fazeley, near Tamworth. It was a mining village with a lot of Yorkshire mining ancestry, so not a Midlands accent at all when my mum was young.
    Wigan's Lancashire, though. Mining district too, so maybe people came down to Tamworth area from there when the pits opened.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    The odds might be better on Rees Mogg becoming next PM, but that excludes May losing the next GE then Mogg running for Tory leader thereafter. The Tory book still needs to sum to 100% if that happens.
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    Sadly looks like another major school shooting in Florida. Believed 17 dead, gunman a 19 year old former pupil is is custody.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    I am surprised at just how badly BJs speech has gone down. I think his chance is gone.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    Sandpit said:

    Sadly looks like another major school shooting in Florida. Believed 17 dead, gunman a 19 year old former pupil is is custody.

    Been following it from Thailand earlier. Sadly true. Trump says 'My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting. No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school.'
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,055

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    Pulpstar said:

    The odds might be better on Rees Mogg becoming next PM, but that excludes May losing the next GE then Mogg running for Tory leader thereafter. The Tory book still needs to sum to 100% if that happens.

    Yes, the most obvious way that JRM becomes next leader is if Mrs May stays on until a 2022 election and loses. He would work as LotO, if he’s not already Speaker by then.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    Sandpit said:

    Sadly looks like another major school shooting in Florida. Believed 17 dead, gunman a 19 year old former pupil is is custody.

    Been following it from Thailand earlier. Sadly true. Trump says 'My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting. No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school.'
    None of which is of course wrong - but what does he intend to *do* about it?

    Obama at least tried to control guns after Sandy Hook, even though he failed. Is Trump not even going to try?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    Six children suggests his vessel is not wholly empty :smiley:
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    I am surprised at just how badly BJs speech has gone down. I think his chance is gone.

    If there's a law in politics. It's that you only get ten years at the top. After that, you've overstayed your welcome and what remains will be painful and difficult .

    Boris has crossed into that twilight zone. There is nothing he can do. The party would be mad to pick him.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343
    The sad truth is that we have no idea if the Moggster can run a bath. He did help to run a hedge fund extremely successfully but I am not sure that is adequate training for a proposed PM. His popularity is a vote of no confidence in the current leadership of the party but I really can't believe for one moment that the next leader does not already have a senior post in the cabinet.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951
    JML CEO on R4 talking sense about exporting, Balls talking, well, it is clear why he isn't chancellor...

    Why suddenly people agitating to the SM/CU again? This was decided last January....
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    If only George Osborne & David Cameron hadn’t stood down as MPs this chart would look or so different
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    ydoethur said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    Six children suggests his vessel is not wholly empty :smiley:
    Half term is doing bad things to you!
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956

    I am surprised at just how badly BJs speech has gone down. I think his chance is gone.

    The usual suspects who were determined to attack Boris whatever he said are sounding off, as is their right. We don't yet know how it's gone down among its target audience of ordinary voters, particularly soft Remainers.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The odds might be better on Rees Mogg becoming next PM, but that excludes May losing the next GE then Mogg running for Tory leader thereafter. The Tory book still needs to sum to 100% if that happens.

    Yes, the most obvious way that JRM becomes next leader is if Mrs May stays on until a 2022 election and loses. He would work as LotO, if he’s not already Speaker by then.
    Agreed. LOTO would be the sort of training he would need to be a potential PM and it would be much less of a risk for the party if they were going to be in opposition for some years. If it didn't work out the party could always do an IDS. Straight to PM is just not a conceivable risk.
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    VinnyVinny Posts: 48
    I really don't know where you got the 'poor response' idea from, Mr Smithson. It is true that the BBC trundled out Ken Clarke and Chukka Umunna to slap him down, but these three (the BBC, Clarke and Umunna) were his enemies anyway. Elsewhere, comment has been pretty good. Amongst common folk Johnson's star is riding as high as ever. People take notice when he speaks, and they don't really do that with many prominent politicians in either of the two main parties.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,321

    ydoethur said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    Six children suggests his vessel is not wholly empty :smiley:
    Half term is doing bad things to you!
    It's not half term yet! I blame JackW for unleashing my inner Talbot Rothwell...
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343

    If only George Osborne & David Cameron hadn’t stood down as MPs this chart would look or so different

    Cameron's time has sadly come and gone but Osborne is a dreadful miss from the House. Not sure I see a way back for him now even if he was so inclined.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The odds might be better on Rees Mogg becoming next PM, but that excludes May losing the next GE then Mogg running for Tory leader thereafter. The Tory book still needs to sum to 100% if that happens.

    Yes, the most obvious way that JRM becomes next leader is if Mrs May stays on until a 2022 election and loses. He would work as LotO, if he’s not already Speaker by then.
    Agreed. LOTO would be the sort of training he would need to be a potential PM and it would be much less of a risk for the party if they were going to be in opposition for some years. If it didn't work out the party could always do an IDS. Straight to PM is just not a conceivable risk.
    Purely from a technical pov laying Mogg (6.0) next PM looked better than laying him next Tory leade (5.4)r. Of course that might change as the relative odds alter.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,862
    Essexit said:

    I am surprised at just how badly BJs speech has gone down. I think his chance is gone.

    The usual suspects who were determined to attack Boris whatever he said are sounding off, as is their right. We don't yet know how it's gone down among its target audience of ordinary voters, particularly soft Remainers.
    Given the lack of converage in the papers this morning - including those you’d assumed to be pro-Boris - I doubt any noticed.

    Soft Brexiters, on the other hand, seem pretty pissed off at the lack of substance, and business is now giving up hope.

    It was a flop.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    That’s unfair. He’s a very talented emerging market investor
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    If Mogg becomes the candidate of the ERG/hard Brexiteers he gets 90 MPs or so in the ballot without breaking a sweat. That leaves 228 MPs left who must split for another two candidates at over 90 votes a piece each to stop him getting on the ballot. Another Theresa May style final round, and he's on.

    He could easily do very well in a member's ballot, possibly even with some new entryists, so although his odds are way too short, I certainty wouldn't rule him out.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,856
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sadly looks like another major school shooting in Florida. Believed 17 dead, gunman a 19 year old former pupil is is custody.

    Been following it from Thailand earlier. Sadly true. Trump says 'My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting. No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school.'
    None of which is of course wrong - but what does he intend to *do* about it?

    Obama at least tried to control guns after Sandy Hook, even though he failed. Is Trump not even going to try?
    The stock reply will be that more guns are needed, so that the victims can fire back.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    JRM's only "electoral appeal" is due to supposedly being able to offer "clarity" on Brexit. A line he can offer by virtue of being outside of Government and therefore not constrained by reality of the Brexit negotiations and need to maintain Cabinet unity.

    Once Brexit is done (as one currently assumes it will be by the next election) I imagine the British public will just want the whole thing over and done with and forgotten about. The idea that they will be attracted by somebody offering to repudiate/renegotiatie whatever 'deal' has been cooked up and agreed in unlikely IMO.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,055
    ydoethur said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    Six children suggests his vessel is not wholly empty :smiley:
    :)

    Can you imagine him running the country? "Drat it! We have to decide our policy on smoking in cars! Olga! Put down Decem et Octo and sort this out, Oh, and afterwards, can you ask the Pope what our policy should be on whether nappies are a devillish new invention, and we should all go back to using terry towels? And this Internet thing. Is it allowable?"

    He once called state educated children potted plants. He is in no way PM material.
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    archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    Vinny said:

    I really don't know where you got the 'poor response' idea from, Mr Smithson. It is true that the BBC trundled out Ken Clarke and Chukka Umunna to slap him down, but these three (the BBC, Clarke and Umunna) were his enemies anyway. Elsewhere, comment has been pretty good. Amongst common folk Johnson's star is riding as high as ever. People take notice when he speaks, and they don't really do that with many prominent politicians in either of the two main parties.

    Times today... "Can any of us believe a word Boris says ?" .... (questions expecting the answer you've got to be joking).
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    Charles said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    That’s unfair. He’s a very talented emerging market investor
    I believe Smithson Jnr. called him competent but not brilliant ?
    In any event, that hardly supports the elevation of a backbencher to PM.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,055

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    And a lot of people are inventing points on JRM because they like his views on Brexit ...

    He was a comedian non-entity before Brexit. The only reason he has been elevated to his current prominence is because of Brexit (see also Loathsome Leadsom). And you claim he 'tells the truth about choices that need to be made'?

    Can you point me to a transcript of any speech he has given on a topic outside Brexit that tackles the real issues facing the country today?
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    Good morning, my fellow Moggadoons.

    F1: here's Haas' 2018 car: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43061441

    They've been an odd team in their first two seasons. Fast at some circuits, atrocious at others. They also need to learn how to make their brakes work.

    In the gossip, Billy Monger, who lost both his legs in a crash, reportedly still wants to get into F1. If he could, and be competitive, that'd be a fantastic story.
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    For my mother, a moggy is a mouse not a cat. Apparently that’s from her local dialect, so she claims.

    I'm fairly sure Moggy started as an affection for a petted milk cow. Certainly my mother always referred to out cows as Moggins
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    (FPT)
    Warren is still clearly pursuing a 2020 run...
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/elizabeth-warren-addresses-pocahontas-controversy-in-surprise-speech.html?
    ... and she handles the Native American ancestry controversy quite deftly.

    The older generation of Democrats don't seem to be ready to step back just yet (Biden is also particularly active at the moment).
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,313
    alex. said:

    JRM's only "electoral appeal" is due to supposedly being able to offer "clarity" on Brexit. A line he can offer by virtue of being outside of Government and therefore not constrained by reality of the Brexit negotiations and need to maintain Cabinet unity.

    Once Brexit is done (as one currently assumes it will be by the next election) I imagine the British public will just want the whole thing over and done with and forgotten about. The idea that they will be attracted by somebody offering to repudiate/renegotiatie whatever 'deal' has been cooked up and agreed in unlikely IMO.

    +1

    Even Corbyn has more political ability to compromise, and campaign. Mogg has neither.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,012
    alex. said:



    Once Brexit is done (as one currently assumes it will be by the next election) I imagine the British public will just want the whole thing over and done with and forgotten about. The idea that they will be attracted by somebody offering to repudiate/renegotiatie whatever 'deal' has been cooked up and agreed in unlikely IMO.

    That assumes Brexit has gone, at least, not terribly. If it's a shit show, as now seems at least possible, then people will want the 'deal' reopened. Probably to get a harder, purer Brexit.

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731

    For my mother, a moggy is a mouse not a cat. Apparently that’s from her local dialect, so she claims.

    Which would make a cat a Moggster ?
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    My resident soft Remainer (appalled at the outcome but carries his passport in a soft imitation old passport case, doesn’t think about Brexit on a daily basis) mentioned Boris Johnson’s speech spontaneously last night. “What a load of old bollocks” was the unsolicited opinion. “He just wants to be Prime Minister”.

    He then mentioned “that Jacob whatever his name is”. “He needs a good kicking” was the most notable observation, with the perhaps unsurprising “I definitely wouldn’t vote for the Conservatives if he was leader”. When I told him that he was favourite to be next Prime Minister, he said “you’re joking me”.

    No doubt both of them do better in other households.
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    TonyETonyE Posts: 938

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    Having came across him once (supporting the campaign against Alexander Adamescu's EAW), he seems to be a conviction politician which is a welcome change. However, I'm a bit concerned that he doesn't do detail, at least not in the political arena. He's very good on principles and is a good debater, but as PM you have to deal with a great many shades of grey.

    Much of what he has said in regard to Brexit I think is just plain wrong, and if you have a knowledge of trade agreements (even at a basic level such as I) or how customs systems work, EU law, technology - then some of what he says seems just like 'Polite misinformation'. He says it well, and probably believes it, but much of it is a bit wide of the mark.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731

    My resident soft Remainer (appalled at the outcome but carries his passport in a soft imitation old passport case, doesn’t think about Brexit on a daily basis) mentioned Boris Johnson’s speech spontaneously last night. “What a load of old bollocks” was the unsolicited opinion. “He just wants to be Prime Minister”.

    He then mentioned “that Jacob whatever his name is”. “He needs a good kicking” was the most notable observation, with the perhaps unsurprising “I definitely wouldn’t vote for the Conservatives if he was leader”. When I told him that he was favourite to be next Prime Minister, he said “you’re joking me”.

    No doubt both of them do better in other households.

    Perhaps in the ones which employ nannies ?
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Dura_Ace said:

    alex. said:



    Once Brexit is done (as one currently assumes it will be by the next election) I imagine the British public will just want the whole thing over and done with and forgotten about. The idea that they will be attracted by somebody offering to repudiate/renegotiatie whatever 'deal' has been cooked up and agreed in unlikely IMO.

    That assumes Brexit has gone, at least, not terribly. If it's a shit show, as now seems at least possible, then people will want the 'deal' reopened. Probably to get a harder, purer Brexit.

    Replace a shit show with a shitter show? It's a possibility I suppose.
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    JRM's Catholic Faith could be a problem, if he was serious about any of his Church's teaching other than about men changing nappies. The Church is very clear on nuclear weapons which actually puts him in exactly the same place as Corbyn - would he imperil his immortal soul by threatening to use them? BTW - the RC Church has well established social teaching that is about as far from JRM's politics as it is possible to get.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    Dura_Ace said:

    alex. said:



    Once Brexit is done (as one currently assumes it will be by the next election) I imagine the British public will just want the whole thing over and done with and forgotten about. The idea that they will be attracted by somebody offering to repudiate/renegotiatie whatever 'deal' has been cooked up and agreed in unlikely IMO.

    That assumes Brexit has gone, at least, not terribly. If it's a shit show, as now seems at least possible, then people will want the 'deal' reopened. Probably to get a harder, purer Brexit.

    A shit show would be no deal, and WTO.
    Reopening doesn't really come into it - and would consume the entirety of the next administration were it to happen, anyway.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,856

    For my mother, a moggy is a mouse not a cat. Apparently that’s from her local dialect, so she claims.

    I'm fairly sure Moggy started as an affection for a petted milk cow. Certainly my mother always referred to out cows as Moggins
    Moggy is also a brand name for sex toys in Scandinavia.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,055
    Charles said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    That’s unfair. He’s a very talented emerging market investor
    No, it's not unfair. I'd expect an Etonian to have made much more money. ;)

    Note he had to apologise to Trevor Kavanagh for plagarisation. So much for his much-vaunted communication skills.
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    Mr. B, or Malleus Moggorum.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    edited February 2018
    Sean_F said:

    For my mother, a moggy is a mouse not a cat. Apparently that’s from her local dialect, so she claims.

    I'm fairly sure Moggy started as an affection for a petted milk cow. Certainly my mother always referred to out cows as Moggins
    Moggy is also a brand name for sex toys in Scandinavia.
    We really are trying to put ydoethur off his breakfast.
    Can you imagine a JRM product endorsement ?
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    My own view on Jacob Rees-Mogg is that he is just the latest in a long line of fluent Europhobic nutjobs, from the same school as John Redwood but not obviously possessing as many grey cells. If the Conservatives wish to inspect 30% from the underside, he’s probably the right choice.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    Rees Mogg is a talented snake oil salesman. It's not as easy as it looks. His authenticity is fake but that's the most convincing kind.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    Six children suggests his vessel is not wholly empty :smiley:
    Half term is doing bad things to you!
    It's not half term yet! I blame JackW for unleashing my inner Talbot Rothwell...
    Demob happy? My granddaughter-in-law (elect) has been (a) relaxing and (b) getting on with wedding planning this week, since the VIth Form College where she is emplyed was closed.
  • Options

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    That's a very good summary.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    Six children suggests his vessel is not wholly empty :smiley:
    Half term is doing bad things to you!
    It's not half term yet! I blame JackW for unleashing my inner Talbot Rothwell...
    Demob happy? My granddaughter-in-law (elect) has been (a) relaxing and (b) getting on with wedding planning this week, since the VIth Form College where she is emplyed was closed.
    My son is back at school today having had his half term. Talking of which.....laters.
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    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    That's a very good summary.
    Jacob Rees-Mogg would be the Conservative party pissing itself. It would get a nice warm feeling initially, while everyone else looked on in pity and contempt.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758
    edited February 2018
    alex. said:

    JRM's only "electoral appeal" is due to supposedly being able to offer "clarity" on Brexit. A line he can offer by virtue of being outside of Government and therefore not constrained by reality of the Brexit negotiations and need to maintain Cabinet unity.

    Once Brexit is done (as one currently assumes it will be by the next election) I imagine the British public will just want the whole thing over and done with and forgotten about. The idea that they will be attracted by somebody offering to repudiate/renegotiatie whatever 'deal' has been cooked up and agreed in unlikely IMO.

    That assumption will probably not hold. The Government will almost certainly be in the midst of a "what do we do about Brexit?" crisis at the point when Theresa May goes. That's Rees Mogg's opportunity.

    Which is a concern, to put it mildly.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    That's a very good summary.
    I think you are also part of the 30% Alastair refers to...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    edited February 2018
    I still think JRM is more likely to be the next Tory leader of the opposition than the next PM, who will more likely to be a senior Cabinet Minister like Boris or Rudd.

    However as long as the Tories are still competitive in the polls there will be no rush to replace May
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908



    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.

    I think you’re absolutely right that he would be ‘surprisingly’ popular with the public (to the despair of those at the guardian no doubt).

    But will non-normal people (MPs) actually back him to put him in the final 2?
    I don’t think so.

    I honestly think he would split the Conservative party.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    That's a very good summary.
    Jacob Rees-Mogg would be the Conservative party pissing itself. It would get a nice warm feeling initially, while everyone else looked on in pity and contempt.
    People said the same about Corbyn Labour
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343
    Politics and politicking is just so much more interesting in Brazil: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-43067679

    The imagination, artistry and effort put into these presentations by the Samba schools seem to have no equivalent here at all. When we think the Moggster is "colourful" we are being more than a tad parochial.

    (son still faffing).
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,012
    Nigelb said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    That's a very good summary.
    I think you are also part of the 30% Alastair refers to...
    JRM's wacky social conservatism that make him wank fodder for the broflakes also makes it hard for him to appeal to the 70%.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    JRM positives:

    Communication
    Conviction
    Clarity

    JRM negatives:

    Catholic


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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)
    Warren is still clearly pursuing a 2020 run...
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/elizabeth-warren-addresses-pocahontas-controversy-in-surprise-speech.html?
    ... and she handles the Native American ancestry controversy quite deftly.

    The older generation of Democrats don't seem to be ready to step back just yet (Biden is also particularly active at the moment).

    If Sanders does not run I think his support will go to Warren and she will be the 2020 Democratic nominee
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758
    edited February 2018

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    I agree with your summary with the small qualification of Rees Mogg "not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made". His point is there are no choices except his "truth" and therefore consequences don't matter.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ydoethur said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    Six children suggests his vessel is not wholly empty :smiley:
    :)

    Can you imagine him running the country? "Drat it! We have to decide our policy on smoking in cars! Olga! Put down Decem et Octo and sort this out, Oh, and afterwards, can you ask the Pope what our policy should be on whether nappies are a devillish new invention, and we should all go back to using terry towels? And this Internet thing. Is it allowable?"

    He once called state educated children potted plants. He is in no way PM material.
    “Potted plants” was a poor choice of words...

    What he was arguing was that the National Curriculum, with its focus on passing exams, limited children’s education (ie the difference between a garden planted flower and a pot bound one). That’s an argument that has some merit - give freedom to teachers to teach - but people have ignore what he was saying to focus on one phrase

    (Ps autocorrect changed “freedom” into Rees-Mogg...)
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    That's a very good summary.
    Ken Clarke has considerably more talent than JRM as he's demonstrated for 50 years in public life. Anne Widdecombe MP had more charisma even if her views were and are disturbingly similar to JRM's. A list of 'genuine' politicians who are good communicators and say what they think could go on: Chris Mullin, Tony Benn, etc, etc. It doesn't mean that anyone sane would have wanted Widdecombe or Benn to become PM.
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    HYUFD said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    That's a very good summary.
    Jacob Rees-Mogg would be the Conservative party pissing itself. It would get a nice warm feeling initially, while everyone else looked on in pity and contempt.
    People said the same about Corbyn Labour
    And what would most voters do? They will face the choice of Corbyn or Mogg. It's possible the LibDems would then come through the middle as the only sane choice, but history says not.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,055

    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.

    That's a very good summary.
    JRM should be consigned to the same dustbin of history as Loathsome Leadsom... ;)

    The idea that JRM appeals to anyone outside right-wing Europhobic circles is frankly based on hope rather than experience. He's been a joke in the past, someone to be laughed at rather than listened to.

    Boris had the same problem, and to his credit he has used that jokey image in the past to deflect criticism. I see little to assume that JRM would have that skill. Worse, Boris has honed his image over many years in the public's eye, including eight as London Mayor. JRM has f'all time to do it.

    A week or so ago I posted that I could never vote for a Conservative Party led by JRM. What should worry the JRM rampers is that several Conservative-inclined voters agreed. And not all were remainers...
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    That’s unfair. He’s a very talented emerging market investor
    I believe Smithson Jnr. called him competent but not brilliant ?
    In any event, that hardly supports the elevation of a backbencher to PM.
    Somerset has done well over the years, but @rcs1000 will have better visibility on individual contributions than I will

    (And I never said it was a qualification for PM - just that he wasn’t an empty vessel)
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,012



    And what would most voters do? They will face the choice of Corbyn or Mogg.

    They are both fucked in the head but Corbyn will have a superior campaigning organisation around him.

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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,220
    TGOHF said:

    JRM positives:

    Communication
    Conviction
    Clarity

    JRM negatives:

    Catholic


    No. Him being Catholic is not a negative.

    His biggest negative is that he talks nonsense, however fluently he does so and however much he may believe it. Just as with Johnson, he is fluent - but there is no substance there.

    We are barely a year away from March 2019 and the government is still unable to talk in any level of detail or practicality about what will happen post our departure. It is an appalling dereliction of duty which will cause real harm to real businesses and people. This is what the government has to deal with - properly - and urgently. And people like Johnson and JRM are doing everything they can to make that task as difficult as possible.

    Contempt is the very minimum they deserve.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,055
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    That’s unfair. He’s a very talented emerging market investor
    I believe Smithson Jnr. called him competent but not brilliant ?
    In any event, that hardly supports the elevation of a backbencher to PM.
    Somerset has done well over the years, but @rcs1000 will have better visibility on individual contributions than I will

    (And I never said it was a qualification for PM - just that he wasn’t an empty vessel)
    Again, you assume that an Etonian being able to make money in any way fills the vessel. It doesn't. ;)
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    HYUFD said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? be leader.
    That's a very good summary.
    Jacob Rees-Mogg would be the Conservative party pissing itself. It would get a nice warm feeling initially, while everyone else looked on in pity and contempt.
    People said the same about Corbyn Labour
    And what would most voters do? They will face the choice of Corbyn or Mogg. It's possible the LibDems would then come through the middle as the only sane choice, but history says not.
    I would imagine another hung parliament becomes a strong possibility so even if the LDs do not get many more MPs they could decide which of the 2 becomes PM, which probably means Corbyn but I don't think JRM would be too unhappy about being Leader of the Opposition to a Corbyn Labour government propped up by the LDs
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.
    That's a very good summary.
    I think you are also part of the 30% Alastair refers to...
    JRM's wacky social conservatism that make him wank fodder for the broflakes also makes it hard for him to appeal to the 70%.
    Rees Mogg doesn't need to appeal to the 70%. He needs to appeal to the diminishing band of geriatric reactionaries that is the Conservative party membership, who are firmly in the 30%. Then he is everyone's PM. Getting past sceptical MPs is his biggest challenge.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Vinny said:

    I really don't know where you got the 'poor response' idea from, Mr Smithson. It is true that the BBC trundled out Ken Clarke and Chukka Umunna to slap him down, but these three (the BBC, Clarke and Umunna) were his enemies anyway. Elsewhere, comment has been pretty good. Amongst common folk Johnson's star is riding as high as ever. People take notice when he speaks, and they don't really do that with many prominent politicians in either of the two main parties.

    I take no notice when the empty vessel speaks , so not all people.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080
    Dura_Ace said:



    And what would most voters do? They will face the choice of Corbyn or Mogg.

    They are both fucked in the head but Corbyn will have a superior campaigning organisation around him.

    Though I imagine there would be an increase in Tory membership under JRM from hard Brexiteers
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,080

    I think a lot of people are missing the point on JRM, mainly because his views on Brexit are anathema to half this Board so they just want to dismiss his chances to make themselves sleep at night!

    However, I think that we will find that the more exposure JRM gets, the better he does, at least in the short term. The thing is - he can actually (a) explain his point of view (b) clearly believes what he is saying and (c) is not unafraid to tell people the truth about choices that need to be made and explains the consequences to the public like they are grown ups, not children.

    Now, what other senior Tory MP actually looks like they have any other political philosophy other than gaining themselves more power? Hammond - he was a Eurosceptic. Boris was a remainer. Rudd, Hunt - what do they honestly believe? Gove is the only one, and he killed his own chances by undermining his reputation for honesty by knifing Boris.

    JRM is a very talented politician - probably the best on offer at the moment in terms of his ability to communicate his worldview. And I think normal people who do not engage with politics much are attracted to that sort of person REGARDLESS of whether they agree with their views - that is the lesson from Corbyn, not that the nation suddenly became socialist revolutionaries. The real question is whether JRM really wants to be leader.

    That's a very good summary.
    JRM should be consigned to the same dustbin of history as Loathsome Leadsom... ;)

    The idea that JRM appeals to anyone outside right-wing Europhobic circles is frankly based on hope rather than experience. He's been a joke in the past, someone to be laughed at rather than listened to.

    Boris had the same problem, and to his credit he has used that jokey image in the past to deflect criticism. I see little to assume that JRM would have that skill. Worse, Boris has honed his image over many years in the public's eye, including eight as London Mayor. JRM has f'all time to do it.

    A week or so ago I posted that I could never vote for a Conservative Party led by JRM. What should worry the JRM rampers is that several Conservative-inclined voters agreed. And not all were remainers...
    Yes but JRM would face Corbyn not Blair so you cannot rule out him winning
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,055
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    Six children suggests his vessel is not wholly empty :smiley:
    :)

    Can you imagine him running the country? "Drat it! We have to decide our policy on smoking in cars! Olga! Put down Decem et Octo and sort this out, Oh, and afterwards, can you ask the Pope what our policy should be on whether nappies are a devillish new invention, and we should all go back to using terry towels? And this Internet thing. Is it allowable?"

    He once called state educated children potted plants. He is in no way PM material.
    “Potted plants” was a poor choice of words...

    What he was arguing was that the National Curriculum, with its focus on passing exams, limited children’s education (ie the difference between a garden planted flower and a pot bound one). That’s an argument that has some merit - give freedom to teachers to teach - but people have ignore what he was saying to focus on one phrase

    (Ps autocorrect changed “freedom” into Rees-Mogg...)
    Nah, for someone whose only skills is meant to be eloquence, it was terrible. And he's also a plagiarist. ;)

    It's clear the he sees himself as superior, above the plebs - the odd things is that accusation was thrown at Cameron (wrongly, IMO), but much better fits JRM. After all, only pleb dads change nappies. Don't we all have nannies?

    I find JRM contemptible on many levels. He's the anti-Cameron in so many ways, which is why hes appealing to certain Conservative members. I fear they'll find that he is also the anti-Cameron when it comes to winning GE's.

    I despair about politics. Brexit has consumed everything, and we're faced with May versus Corbyn or JRM versus Corbyn. The country deserves better.
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    Clearly, the time has come for the Patrick Party.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Sean_F said:

    For my mother, a moggy is a mouse not a cat. Apparently that’s from her local dialect, so she claims.

    I'm fairly sure Moggy started as an affection for a petted milk cow. Certainly my mother always referred to out cows as Moggins
    Moggy is also a brand name for sex toys in Scandinavia.
    Those who thought Bedfordshire solicitors led a prim and proper existence may have to revise their opinions .... :smile:
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758

    JRM's Catholic Faith could be a problem, if he was serious about any of his Church's teaching other than about men changing nappies. The Church is very clear on nuclear weapons which actually puts him in exactly the same place as Corbyn - would he imperil his immortal soul by threatening to use them? BTW - the RC Church has well established social teaching that is about as far from JRM's politics as it is possible to get.

    True. Rees Mogg's ostentatious Catholic faith is as fake as the rest of his persona.
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    Mr. 43, the Pope, in responding to the Charlie Hebdo murders, said that if someone insulted his mother he'd punch them in the face.

    If the head of the Catholic Church can come out with bullshit like that, then Mogg not being a zealot is a pro, not a con.

    [I don't think he'll become leader (Mogg, not Pope Francis). It's too big a leap from the backbenches to PM].
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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    How would the new eco-warrior Gove take to a climate change denier as boss I wonder?

    https://www.desmog.uk/2018/02/09/these-are-climate-science-denier-mps-lobbying-hard-brexit
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,856
    We may have reached a stage in our politics (like the US) where any Conservative leader gets their party to 40%, and any Labour leader gets their party to 40%. If so, JRM might well win an election.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,942
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    That’s unfair. He’s a very talented emerging market investor
    I believe Smithson Jnr. called him competent but not brilliant ?
    In any event, that hardly supports the elevation of a backbencher to PM.
    Somerset has done well over the years, but @rcs1000 will have better visibility on individual contributions than I will

    (And I never said it was a qualification for PM - just that he wasn’t an empty vessel)
    Underperformed the benchmark. The main qualities needed to start one of these funds seem to be
    a) To be loaded
    B) To know lots of loaded people.
    So it doesn't tell us much
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    As our VE day approaches, the swindling band of Euro 'til I die fanatics become more and more frantic. Eyes swivelling, blood pressure rising, I fear for their sanity.

    Chill out, once we've left you'll be able to sleep at night. There really isn't such a thing as a wardrobe monster, children.
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    Mr. Pete, I do love that headline. Disagreeing with a scientific theory isn't inherently being anti-science. Indeed, competing theories are commonplace. Mindless groupthink is the antithesis of scepticism, the founding point of scientific thought, and led to ossification of light theories for two centuries after Newton died because nobody was allowed to contradict the great man.

    Also, even the most Warmist of warmers and Sceptical of sceptics [using terms like 'denier', which naturally bring to mind Holocaust deniers, is using pejorative language to try and stifle scientific debate] would agree on a large number of things. The good of geothermal energy, the benefits of technology being more energy efficient, the need for an increase application of trebuchets in the justice system, etc.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)
    Warren is still clearly pursuing a 2020 run...
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/02/elizabeth-warren-addresses-pocahontas-controversy-in-surprise-speech.html?
    ... and she handles the Native American ancestry controversy quite deftly.

    The older generation of Democrats don't seem to be ready to step back just yet (Biden is also particularly active at the moment).

    If Sanders does not run I think his support will go to Warren and she will be the 2020 Democratic nominee
    I think Biden also has a genuine shot if he goes for it (which seems likely barring health problems). It does leave less room for a next generation candidate to emerge.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,856
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    My not all that interested in politics friend mentioned Rees-Mogg unprompted to me today, likes his style.

    I get a feeling a lot of younger people feel/felt that politicians are/were simply full of empty slogans and unable to answer simple questions, more interested in projecting image than anything else.

    Probably annoys many older people as well. Maybe a reason for Mogg's popularity as well as other things we've seen over the last few years...

    lol. JRM is known for only one thing: to be able to waffle eloquently. Aside from that, he is an empty vessel.
    That’s unfair. He’s a very talented emerging market investor
    I believe Smithson Jnr. called him competent but not brilliant ?
    In any event, that hardly supports the elevation of a backbencher to PM.
    Somerset has done well over the years, but @rcs1000 will have better visibility on individual contributions than I will

    (And I never said it was a qualification for PM - just that he wasn’t an empty vessel)
    Underperformed the benchmark. The main qualities needed to start one of these funds seem to be
    a) To be loaded
    B) To know lots of loaded people.
    So it doesn't tell us much
    Those are the two secrets to success in this life.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Austria’s freedom party has scrapped the smoking ban planned for April.

    Quite amazing that these strict EU dictacts don’t cover something so fundamental to health.

    11/12 years in from our ban it seems extremely arcane to still permit smoking in bars and restaurants.
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    TGOHF said:

    Austria’s freedom party has scrapped the smoking ban planned for April.

    Quite amazing that these strict EU dictacts don’t cover something so fundamental to health.

    11/12 years in from our ban it seems extremely arcane to still permit smoking in bars and restaurants.

    I thought it was an EU directive and as such it was mandatory to incorporate into national law.
This discussion has been closed.