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  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited December 2017
    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
  • What a world we live in.

    Trump is now odds AGAINST for a vote of impeachment to be passed in the House.

    Certainly, that is not the same as actually impeaching the guy which is largely the responsibility of the Senate.

    But still...
  • Mr. D, no, mammalia is a class within the animal kingdom, not a species.

    Mr. F, psychology itself varies from being biology to sociology, with a fair smattering of politics and bullshit in the centre and fringes respectively.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,135

    Mr. D, no, mammalia is a class within the animal kingdom, not a species.

    Mr. F, psychology itself varies from being biology to sociology, with a fair smattering of politics and bullshit in the centre and fringes respectively.

    Assuming my class? Much worse! :p
  • Thanks for the responses! I’ve just now discovered that my phone is waterproof (I have an Iphone 7). Although I will say that not having a phone jack anymore is a pain in the neck. I’m hoping to get an adapter this Christmas so I can charge my phone while listening to music/podcasts on it.

    One thing I’ve realised with my books - after four years or so they start to decay....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,877
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
    Isn’t that the rationale behind the DUP’s position? It’s all a Romish plot to sell them out to the Catholics in the South!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
    That view is fairly common among Evangelical and Charismatic Christians.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,135

    Thanks for the responses! I’ve just now discovered that my phone is waterproof (I have an Iphone 7). Although I will say that not having a phone jack anymore is a pain in the neck. I’m hoping to get an adapter this Christmas so I can charge my phone while listening to music/podcasts on it.

    One thing I’ve realised with my books - after four years or so they start to decay....

    Where are you storing your books? :o
  • Barnesian said:

    IanB2 said:

    All this talk of who got what degree. Surely only those with a First in PPE should be allowed to post on PB?

    Not a real degree according to the Cameron haters.

    Only legal, history, science, or engineering degrees count as proper degrees
    Not Greats?

    And why should vocational courses like law be taught in proper universities?
    I consider Literae Humaniores a history degree.
    Fair enough.
    It was a degree I seriously considered reading, but declined.
    If I had the time and resources to go back and do another degree, I'd do History. Preferably somewhere that didn't require me to write essays.
    You should go to Oxford or Cambridge then. Apparently they only 'read' their subjects there, so I assume that no essay writing is involved.
    Wasn't my experience of friends reading history tbh.
    Actually, what I want at this stage in my life is to learn about a subject, not to end up with a bit of paper saying I have.
    The Open University is brilliant for learning; the quality of their materials is outstanding and compensates for the relative lack of face to face. Whether you work towards a qualification or just do the courses you fancy is up to you. As with any course there is of course written assignments, but how seriously you take them is up to you. And sadly of course tuition fees have pushed up the cost.
    I'm doing a free course on autism on FutureLearn at the moment. It is very revealing and gives advice on how to interact with people on the spectrum who lack self awareness and have narrow obsessions.
    You mean you have been using as as a free resource for your experiments :)
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    ...

    One thing I’ve realised with my books - after four years or so they start to decay....


    Stop reading them in the bath!

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
    Isn’t that the rationale behind the DUP’s position? It’s all a Romish plot to sell them out to the Catholics in the South!
    The first generation of DUP leaders, like Ian Paisley Senior, Ivan Foster, and William Mcrea, saw the EU in those terms, as no doubt, do many DUP voters. The current generation of leaders are more aligned with Conservative eurosceptics.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    Isn't that the orthodox Tory view of pre-Thatcher Britain?
  • Mr. D, silence, bourgeois capitalist pigdog!
  • RobD said:

    Thanks for the responses! I’ve just now discovered that my phone is waterproof (I have an Iphone 7). Although I will say that not having a phone jack anymore is a pain in the neck. I’m hoping to get an adapter this Christmas so I can charge my phone while listening to music/podcasts on it.

    One thing I’ve realised with my books - after four years or so they start to decay....

    Where are you storing your books? :o
    In a cupboard in my room!

    @MarkHopkins :grin:
  • Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    There is a section of the pro-EU fanatics who have self-respect as Europeans and self-loathing as British.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    PClipp said:

    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
    Despite not being a PB Tory, I agree with that. The Museum of Curiosity on R4 names John Lloyd as Professor of Ignorance at Southampton Solent University. I initially took it to be a piss-take. Then I was told, oh no ... there is such a place and it used to be a College of Art.

    What is the point in B'ham City Univ? The city already has Birmingham (a standard red brick univ) and Aston (a technological univ.) It seems it also began as a College of Art. I went to a conference there in 2016 on technology. Doesn't seem very arty, I later thought, when I found this out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
    That view is fairly common among Evangelical and Charismatic Christians.
    I've just done a search on religion in the EU, to check the balance, and I was very surprised to see how different the Baltic states are. I had assumed they would be fairly homogeneous from a religion perspective, but Estonia is primarily Orthodox, with Protestant second and Catholics almost unknown. Latvia, just one to the South, is pretty evenly split between Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant, while Lithuania has virtually no protestants and is 88% Catholic.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
    That view is fairly common among Evangelical and Charismatic Christians.
    I've just done a search on religion in the EU, to check the balance, and I was very surprised to see how different the Baltic states are. I had assumed they would be fairly homogeneous from a religion perspective, but Estonia is primarily Orthodox, with Protestant second and Catholics almost unknown. Latvia, just one to the South, is pretty evenly split between Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant, while Lithuania has virtually no protestants and is 88% Catholic.
    Lithuania was part of Poland historically while Latvia and Estonia had varying degrees of control from the Teutonic Knights, Sweden and Russia.
  • Mr. Richard, on St. Andrew's Day, Richard Dawkins wrote some tosh about the English not being able to be proud of themselves (due to the EU vote).
  • PClipp said:

    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
    I think you'll find that was done under John Major.
  • DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    Isn't that the orthodox Tory view of pre-Thatcher Britain?
    I think its more that they thought Britain was fundamentally sound but had problems from following the wrong policies at that time.
  • Sort-of on thread, I think Penny Mordaunt as next leader is a good bet. “Rising Star” - check, member of cabinet - check, relatively safe seat - check, Brexiteer- check, armed forces background - check.

    I think her biggest problem is being in the rather un-newsworthy role at DFID, but it’s easy to see how a reshuffle or two in the next year could see her bumped into something more high-profile.
  • Are there any other Catalan markets save PP/Betfair Sportsbook?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,911

    Thanks for the responses! I’ve just now discovered that my phone is waterproof (I have an Iphone 7).

    (Snip)

    Be very careful about terminology: AIUI the iPhone 8 is sold as water-resistant not waterproof, and it'll be hard to get Apple to replace it if it does get damaged by water. A quick check shows they've gone to the IP67 standard, which means it is sealed from dust and can be in water to a depth of one metre for a certain period - but it'd be up to you to prove you didn't exceed that if it does get damaged.

    So basically, you can use it in the rain. But I wouldn't intentionally put it in the bath, or use it in one. And all bets are off with saltwater, so don't go swimming in the sea.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
    That view is fairly common among Evangelical and Charismatic Christians.
    I've just done a search on religion in the EU, to check the balance, and I was very surprised to see how different the Baltic states are. I had assumed they would be fairly homogeneous from a religion perspective, but Estonia is primarily Orthodox, with Protestant second and Catholics almost unknown. Latvia, just one to the South, is pretty evenly split between Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant, while Lithuania has virtually no protestants and is 88% Catholic.
    Dominium maris baltici, innit
  • PClipp said:

    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
    Despite not being a PB Tory, I agree with that. The Museum of Curiosity on R4 names John Lloyd as Professor of Ignorance at Southampton Solent University. I initially took it to be a piss-take. Then I was told, oh no ... there is such a place and it used to be a College of Art.

    What is the point in B'ham City Univ? The city already has Birmingham (a standard red brick univ) and Aston (a technological univ.) It seems it also began as a College of Art. I went to a conference there in 2016 on technology. Doesn't seem very arty, I later thought, when I found this out.
    There is a BCU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_City_University) and a UCB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_College_Birmingham)

  • Mr. Twelve, hope you're right, have a little on Mordaunt at about 81.
  • PClipp said:

    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
    You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Not thatcher and there were quite specific conditions for being able to convert*.

    * Some would argue they actually made some polys that were quite good at a particular specialism worse as they were forced to offer a much wider range of courses.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    PClipp said:

    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
    I think you'll find that was done under John Major.
    Although the decision to merge UCCA and PCAS was made under Thatcher.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited December 2017
    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    Sort-of on thread, I think Penny Mordaunt as next leader is a good bet. “Rising Star” - check, member of cabinet - check, relatively safe seat - check, Brexiteer- check, armed forces background - check.

    I think her biggest problem is being in the rather un-newsworthy role at DFID, but it’s easy to see how a reshuffle or two in the next year could see her bumped into something more high-profile.

    She seems well rated by those who've worked with her, which is a good start.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    OK. The EU country with the lowest proportion of Catholics (0.1%!) in Finland.

    The one with the smallest proportion of Protestants (0.0%) is Greek Cyprus.

    And the lowest proportion non-believers/atheists/agnostics (0.3%) is Romania.

    The lowest level of Christianity (31.5%) is in the Czech Republic.


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
    That view is fairly common among Evangelical and Charismatic Christians.
    I've just done a search on religion in the EU, to check the balance, and I was very surprised to see how different the Baltic states are. I had assumed they would be fairly homogeneous from a religion perspective, but Estonia is primarily Orthodox, with Protestant second and Catholics almost unknown. Latvia, just one to the South, is pretty evenly split between Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant, while Lithuania has virtually no protestants and is 88% Catholic.
    Lithuania was part of Poland historically while Latvia and Estonia had varying degrees of control from the Teutonic Knights, Sweden and Russia.
    Thanks for that. Stuff I vaguely (rather than properly) knew.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    There is a section of the pro-EU fanatics who have self-respect as Europeans and self-loathing as British.
    Is there? Can't say as I have noticed.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    PClipp said:

    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
    Despite not being a PB Tory, I agree with that. The Museum of Curiosity on R4 names John Lloyd as Professor of Ignorance at Southampton Solent University. I initially took it to be a piss-take. Then I was told, oh no ... there is such a place and it used to be a College of Art.

    What is the point in B'ham City Univ? The city already has Birmingham (a standard red brick univ) and Aston (a technological univ.) It seems it also began as a College of Art. I went to a conference there in 2016 on technology. Doesn't seem very arty, I later thought, when I found this out.
    There is a BCU (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_City_University) and a UCB (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_College_Birmingham)

    I didn't know that and I only live 50 miles away! Proves the point, I suppose.
  • Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    There is a section of the pro-EU fanatics who have self-respect as Europeans and self-loathing as British.
    Is there? Can't say as I have noticed.
    Something for you to look out for then.
  • Re Birmingham City University...It was part of university of central england, but that institution had a terrible reputation and this was a rebrand which was rather controversial as easy to confuse with the "proper" birmingham university.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited December 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    Physical-books have a chance of survival if they fall in the bath: E-Books rely on being 'dry' and the MTBF life-expectancy.
    True.

    But so long as Amazon (the company) lives, then you just need to refresh your Kindle once every four or five years and you keep your entire library. Physical books decay over time. (Even if they're not dropped in the bath.)
    My problem is I majorly buy technical books and the standard e reader, be it a Kindle or Nook or whatever is pretty much garbage for technical books. Anything where layout is important.

    For prose I'm prety much exclusively e-books these days but until an affordable large format e-reader comes out for technical books I'm a computer pdf or (much preferably) physical person.
  • Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    Physical-books have a chance of survival if they fall in the bath: E-Books rely on being 'dry' and the MTBF life-expectancy.
    True.

    But so long as Amazon (the company) lives, then you just need to refresh your Kindle once every four or five years and you keep your entire library. Physical books decay over time. (Even if they're not dropped in the bath.)
    My problem is I majorly buy technical books and the standard e reader, be it a Kindle or Book or whatever is pretty much garbage for technical books. Anything where layout is important.

    For prose I'm prety much exclusively e-books these days but until an affordable large format e-reader comes out for technical books I'm a computer pdf or (much preferably) physical person.
    Totally agree. I recently saw this which looks interesting,

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/remarkable-paper-tablet
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    Physical-books have a chance of survival if they fall in the bath: E-Books rely on being 'dry' and the MTBF life-expectancy.
    True.

    But so long as Amazon (the company) lives, then you just need to refresh your Kindle once every four or five years and you keep your entire library. Physical books decay over time. (Even if they're not dropped in the bath.)
    My problem is I majorly buy technical books and the standard e reader, be it a Kindle or Book or whatever is pretty much garbage for technical books. Anything where layout is important.

    For prose I'm prety much exclusively e-books these days but until an affordable large format e-reader comes out for technical books I'm a computer pdf or (much preferably) physical person.
    Totally agree. I recently saw this which looks interesting,

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/remarkable-paper-tablet
    Reviews are less than promising. Only a 2 day battery life is fairly unacceptable for an e-reader.

    It's also bloody pricey compared to a 100 quid standard e-reader.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited December 2017
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    Physical-books have a chance of survival if they fall in the bath: E-Books rely on being 'dry' and the MTBF life-expectancy.
    True.

    But so long as Amazon (the company) lives, then you just need to refresh your Kindle once every four or five years and you keep your entire library. Physical books decay over time. (Even if they're not dropped in the bath.)
    My problem is I majorly buy technical books and the standard e reader, be it a Kindle or Book or whatever is pretty much garbage for technical books. Anything where layout is important.

    For prose I'm prety much exclusively e-books these days but until an affordable large format e-reader comes out for technical books I'm a computer pdf or (much preferably) physical person.
    Totally agree. I recently saw this which looks interesting,

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/remarkable-paper-tablet
    Reviews are less than promising. Only a 2 day battery life is fairly unacceptable for an e-reader.

    It's also bloody pricey compared to a 100 quid standard e-reader.
    Where are you getting 2 days from? It says one week.

    It is expensive, but it isn't as e-reader. The surface is like paper. The videos I have seen of it in action makes it appear much more akin to reading and writing on paper than anything else that is out there.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,317

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    Ebooks. I can read them on my Kindle or iPad. It's really handy to not have to carry a book around and be able to carry multiple books which is useful when I have to go away on business (usually 10-12 hour flights to Asia).
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    How much is bitcoin a bubble?

    https://twitter.com/ClarityToast/status/941691930047631360?s=17

    The domain of the bitcoin 'company' that was acquired was registered by the Longfin CEO.

    A cigar company said it was pivoting I to crypto and saw its shares increase 700%
  • On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited December 2017

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis. Surrey and bath were polys and Exeter / warwick "new" unis.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    Physical-books have a chance of survival if they fall in the bath: E-Books rely on being 'dry' and the MTBF life-expectancy.
    True.

    But so long as Amazon (the company) lives, then you just need to refresh your Kindle once every four or five years and you keep your entire library. Physical books decay over time. (Even if they're not dropped in the bath.)
    My problem is I majorly buy technical books and the standard e reader, be it a Kindle or Book or whatever is pretty much garbage for technical books. Anything where layout is important.

    For prose I'm prety much exclusively e-books these days but until an affordable large format e-reader comes out for technical books I'm a computer pdf or (much preferably) physical person.
    Totally agree. I recently saw this which looks interesting,

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/remarkable-paper-tablet
    Reviews are less than promising. Only a 2 day battery life is fairly unacceptable for an e-reader.

    It's also bloody pricey compared to a 100 quid standard e-reader.
    Where are you getting 2 days from? It says one week.

    It is expensive, but it isn't as e-reader. The surface is like paper. The videos I have seen of it in action makes it appear much more akin to reading and writing on paper than anything else that is out there.
    The review I read on Wired.

    https://www.wired.com/2017/09/review-remarkable-paper-tablet/
  • On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
  • On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    I think all 4 examples I gave are only ~50 years old.
  • Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    Physical-books have a chance of survival if they fall in the bath: E-Books rely on being 'dry' and the MTBF life-expectancy.
    True.

    But so long as Amazon (the company) lives, then you just need to refresh your Kindle once every four or five years and you keep your entire library. Physical books decay over time. (Even if they're not dropped in the bath.)
    My problem is I majorly buy technical books and the standard e reader, be it a Kindle or Book or whatever is pretty much garbage for technical books. Anything where layout is important.

    For prose I'm prety much exclusively e-books these days but until an affordable large format e-reader comes out for technical books I'm a computer pdf or (much preferably) physical person.
    Totally agree. I recently saw this which looks interesting,

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/remarkable-paper-tablet
    Reviews are less than promising. Only a 2 day battery life is fairly unacceptable for an e-reader.

    It's also bloody pricey compared to a 100 quid standard e-reader.
    Where are you getting 2 days from? It says one week.

    It is expensive, but it isn't as e-reader. The surface is like paper. The videos I have seen of it in action makes it appear much more akin to reading and writing on paper than anything else that is out there.
    The review I read on Wired.

    https://www.wired.com/2017/09/review-remarkable-paper-tablet/
    Fair enough. Both reviews are pretty positive on the paper link experience, but it seems the negatives are on things like the ease of syncing, battery...Perhaps if they ever make a gen 2 they will have those fixed.

    The bigger issue for me with all these e-ink based devices...No colour. If I am reading an academic paper and there are a load of diagrams or charts, with no colour it is often impossible to work out what is being illustrated.
  • rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    In which case it would not be surprising that there are several new universities in the top ten: at least six would have to be.
  • rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    There are a lot that are in the 100-150 years old.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    In which case it would not be surprising that there are several new universities in the top ten: at least six would have to be.
    We can solve that problem by having individual Oxbridge colleges.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    There are a lot that are in the 100-150 years old.
    Indecently recent.
  • On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    I think all 4 examples I gave are only ~50 years old.
    62 for Exeter, which I wouldn’t quibble with being about 50.

    I picked up on Exeter because I was born there and remember the University as a fixture of the city as I was growing up and so never really thought of it as particularly new.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    Glasgow was founded before Aberdeen.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    In which case it would not be surprising that there are several new universities in the top ten: at least six would have to be.
    We can solve that problem by having individual Oxbridge colleges.
    The University Challenge approach. Or are we eliminating places like St Cats?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811

    On PB.com, why does the quality of a poster's contributions always have an inverse relationship to the level of education the poster claims to have attained?

    No idea.

    MA History. Leicester.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811

    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    Rudd isn't in a safe enough seat. She's very vulnerable to being out of the commons, no way can she be the next leader.

    Party leaders frequently get a boost in their own seat.
    Theresa May didn't.
    It was at the time the second largest tory majority in the country. A boost was still expected I dare say, but was clearly near its ceiling already.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
    That view is fairly common among Evangelical and Charismatic Christians.
    I've just done a search on religion in the EU, to check the balance, and I was very surprised to see how different the Baltic states are. I had assumed they would be fairly homogeneous from a religion perspective, but Estonia is primarily Orthodox, with Protestant second and Catholics almost unknown. Latvia, just one to the South, is pretty evenly split between Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant, while Lithuania has virtually no protestants and is 88% Catholic.
    Lithuania was part of Poland historically while Latvia and Estonia had varying degrees of control from the Teutonic Knights, Sweden and Russia.
    Thanks for that. Stuff I vaguely (rather than properly) knew.
    Medieval Lithuania was a huge State, covering Belarus and much of Ukraine, as well as modern Lithuania.

    Unusually, it remained mostly Pagan, until 1386, when its king converted to Catholicism, in order to become king of Poland, uniting both crowns. But, paganism survived up till the counter-reformation.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    Scott_P said:

    Slow hand clap...

    @AlbertoNardelli: Main impact of Davis remarks is that EU27 want *everything* that is agreed at every stage of the talks translated into a legal text before there can be proper progress in any next stage.

    How does that fit their own insistence on nothing agreed until everything is agreed . So are they a bunch of fibbers?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    Glasgow was founded before Aberdeen.
    Fair enough. Add it to the list.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    In which case it would not be surprising that there are several new universities in the top ten: at least six would have to be.
    We can solve that problem by having individual Oxbridge colleges.
    The University Challenge approach. Or are we eliminating places like St Cats?
    1473. Too new.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Slow hand clap...

    @AlbertoNardelli: Main impact of Davis remarks is that EU27 want *everything* that is agreed at every stage of the talks translated into a legal text before there can be proper progress in any next stage.

    How does that fit their own insistence on nothing agreed until everything is agreed . So are they a bunch of fibbers?
    Being "translated into legal text" is meaningless junk. The withdrawal agreement will not be signed until the 11th hour.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    Glasgow was founded before Aberdeen.
    In the 1960s, the term 'new university' I think referred specificially to the new institutions established on a site where there wasn't a college beforehand. When I went to a redbrick in 1971, I think the new ones were Sussex, Keele, Essex, UEA and Warwick. They were all regarded as inferior to the redbricks which in turn ranked below Oxbridge, UCL, etc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    I've just gotten a kindle. It's fine, and essential for travel, but though I've needed to divest myself of old books to make space, I do like the look and feel of physical books . I like the display.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Slow hand clap...

    @AlbertoNardelli: Main impact of Davis remarks is that EU27 want *everything* that is agreed at every stage of the talks translated into a legal text before there can be proper progress in any next stage.

    How does that fit their own insistence on nothing agreed until everything is agreed . So are they a bunch of fibbers?
    Being "translated into legal text" is meaningless junk. The withdrawal agreement will not be signed until the 11th hour.
    So the tweet is garbage as a negative point, and it's just about writing things up for when they are signed? Figures.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    OT I see Guido reported on Corbyn's apparent stating he would be pm by Xmas. I've never really gotten why, if he said it, this is supposed to embarrass him. I assume it was a light hearted comment even if genuine, and correct or not hes still in a strong position.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    kle4 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    I've just gotten a kindle. It's fine, and essential for travel, but though I've needed to divest myself of old books to make space, I do like the look and feel of physical books . I like the display.
    The joy of books is that when you're done with them, you can pass them on to a friend who you know will appreciate them.

    Or, if you keep them, the ability to easily and quickly thumb your way to the page you'd like to re-read (this goes doubly so for nonfiction and technical books). Kindle's UI doesn't come close to replicating this - indeed I have bought books as a "one time" digitally only to re-buy them as real books when I found myself referring to them often.

    Personally, I find it very hard to 'concentrate' on an ebook (even on e-ink as opposed to ipad) vs printed text. Although I admit this seems to be just me.

    For me, the only area digital wins on is portability and overall space taken up. Given the choice, I would always prefer a physical copy.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    kle4 said:

    OT I see Guido reported on Corbyn's apparent stating he would be pm by Xmas. I've never really gotten why, if he said it, this is supposed to embarrass him. I assume it was a light hearted comment even if genuine, and correct or not hes still in a strong position.

    Guido's just a troll who occasionally gets a tipoff. As a source of scoops, he can be interesting; as a pundit, anyone here is better.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    kle4 said:

    OT I see Guido reported on Corbyn's apparent stating he would be pm by Xmas. I've never really gotten why, if he said it, this is supposed to embarrass him. I assume it was a light hearted comment even if genuine, and correct or not hes still in a strong position.

    Guido's just a troll who occasionally gets a tipoff. As a source of scoops, he can be interesting; as a pundit, anyone here is better.
    "anyone"?

    Can I suggest a few names who fail the pundit test?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Just seen the sad news about Lyndsay Hoyle's daughter.

    RIP
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    kle4 said:

    OT I see Guido reported on Corbyn's apparent stating he would be pm by Xmas. I've never really gotten why, if he said it, this is supposed to embarrass him. I assume it was a light hearted comment even if genuine, and correct or not hes still in a strong position.

    Guido's just a troll who occasionally gets a tipoff. As a source of scoops, he can be interesting; as a pundit, anyone here is better.
    Translation - he keeps pointing out some of the awful truths about the people who make up the Labour party today.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,515
    With all this talk of books, after a year’s wait my copy of All Out War finally arrived yesterday. I think a week off PB Brexit talk to read the definitive account of the campaign might well be in order. :D
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,746
    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    I've just gotten a kindle. It's fine, and essential for travel, but though I've needed to divest myself of old books to make space, I do like the look and feel of physical books . I like the display.
    The joy of books is that when you're done with them, you can pass them on to a friend who you know will appreciate them.

    Or, if you keep them, the ability to easily and quickly thumb your way to the page you'd like to re-read (this goes doubly so for nonfiction and technical books). Kindle's UI doesn't come close to replicating this - indeed I have bought books as a "one time" digitally only to re-buy them as real books when I found myself referring to them often.

    Personally, I find it very hard to 'concentrate' on an ebook (even on e-ink as opposed to ipad) vs printed text. Although I admit this seems to be just me.

    For me, the only area digital wins on is portability and overall space taken up. Given the choice, I would always prefer a physical copy.
    I can only use physical books. Many of my books are full of underlining, highlighting, and margin notes that make the book uniquely mine. Basically, I devour them. Sometimes I then burn them. Difficult with a Kindle.

    I remember in 1962, I left my copy of Brothers Karazomov at home with heavy underlying on the arguments between the brothers on the existence and benevolence of God. My mother, who was a fervent Catholic, found it and was rather disturbed at my margin notes.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    PClipp said:

    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
    I thought it was Major who changed the polys?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,820
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Slow hand clap...

    @AlbertoNardelli: Main impact of Davis remarks is that EU27 want *everything* that is agreed at every stage of the talks translated into a legal text before there can be proper progress in any next stage.

    How does that fit their own insistence on nothing agreed until everything is agreed . So are they a bunch of fibbers?
    Being "translated into legal text" is meaningless junk. The withdrawal agreement will not be signed until the 11th hour.
    The withdrawal agreement needs ratification, so the 11th hour is around 5 o'clock.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    An interesting theory:

    Ladybird Libertarians: Dan Hannan, Paddington and the pernicious impact of 1970s children’s literature on Brexit thinking

    https://thepinprick.com/2017/12/15/ladybird-libertarians-dan-hannan-paddington-and-the-pernicious-impact-of-1960s-british-propaganda-on-the-brexit-thinkers/

    Self-respect is preferable to self-loathing.
    Quite. Anyone who thinks that it amusing that his own country is “ a bit shit” really has better things to do with their time than childish cod psychology of Mr Hannan.
    There was another bit of cod psychology which blamed Brexit on Enid Blyton.

    At each extreme, there will be people who voted for Brexit due to a highly romanticised view of their own country, and people who voted Remain because they see no good in their own country, but the former is still better than the latter.
    People vote for all kinds of reasons. I know of one who voted for Brexit as he regarded the EU as a Popish plot (it's no accident it's the Treaty of Rome, apparently). I know one who voted Remain because he wanted to be able to take his dog on European holidays with him.
    That view is fairly common among Evangelical and Charismatic Christians.
    I've just done a search on religion in the EU, to check the balance, and I was very surprised to see how different the Baltic states are. I had assumed they would be fairly homogeneous from a religion perspective, but Estonia is primarily Orthodox, with Protestant second and Catholics almost unknown. Latvia, just one to the South, is pretty evenly split between Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant, while Lithuania has virtually no protestants and is 88% Catholic.
    Lithuania was part of Poland historically while Latvia and Estonia had varying degrees of control from the Teutonic Knights, Sweden and Russia.
    Technically Poland was part of Lithuania

    /pedant
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    OT I see Guido reported on Corbyn's apparent stating he would be pm by Xmas. I've never really gotten why, if he said it, this is supposed to embarrass him. I assume it was a light hearted comment even if genuine, and correct or not hes still in a strong position.

    Guido's just a troll who occasionally gets a tipoff. As a source of scoops, he can be interesting; as a pundit, anyone here is better.
    "anyone"?

    Can I suggest a few names who fail the pundit test?
    The test of being a pundit is bring wrong 90% of the time but not letting it slow down making new predictions. Most of us can manage that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,254
    All those fervent Oxford University Remainers seem to conveniently forget that their great institution only arose because Henry II banned English students from attending the University of Paris. Where would they be without their own academic Brexit?

    And Cambridge University only came about because some big girls' blouses couldn't take a bit of Oxford "town v gown" rough and tumble.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    Charles said:

    justin124 said:

    I am happy to be corrected on this, but I do get the impression that prior to World War 2 the obtaining of a 'place' at Oxbridge - as distinct from a Scholarship or Exhibition - did not require an applicant to excel academically to anything like the extent that has been required in recent decades.In that era Oxbridge appears to have been very largely a finishing school for public schoolboys - with the exception of the Scholars and Exhibitioners who often came from the grammar schools.

    Yes, you just had to want to go, and have a rich daddy. The same is true more recently of public schools. Even some Etonians lament that the rich clots' places are now given to geeks and nerds.
    Eton isn't just about an academic education or league tables. It's an organic community, and continuity is part of that
    (I'll preface that this is a joke, thus ruining it)

    'Organic' community eh? Like most organic things that'll explain why it's overly expensive, its benefits overhyped, and mainly used by the rich and smug.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Barnesian said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    I've just gotten a kindle. It's fine, and essential for travel, but though I've needed to divest myself of old books to make space, I do like the look and feel of physical books . I like the display.
    The joy of books is that when you're done with them, you can pass them on to a friend who you know will appreciate them.

    Or, if you keep them, the ability to easily and quickly thumb your way to the page you'd like to re-read (this goes doubly so for nonfiction and technical books). Kindle's UI doesn't come close to replicating this - indeed I have bought books as a "one time" digitally only to re-buy them as real books when I found myself referring to them often.

    Personally, I find it very hard to 'concentrate' on an ebook (even on e-ink as opposed to ipad) vs printed text. Although I admit this seems to be just me.

    For me, the only area digital wins on is portability and overall space taken up. Given the choice, I would always prefer a physical copy.
    I can only use physical books. Many of my books are full of underlining, highlighting, and margin notes that make the book uniquely mine. Basically, I devour them. Sometimes I then burn them. Difficult with a Kindle.

    I remember in 1962, I left my copy of Brothers Karazomov at home with heavy underlying on the arguments between the brothers on the existence and benevolence of God. My mother, who was a fervent Catholic, found it and was rather disturbed at my margin notes.
    Agreed, I completely second this. I will highlight and make notes on all my nonfiction, but often find myself highlighting and questioning parts of literary fiction I enjoy too - the 'highlight' feature on an ebook doesn't come close to replicating the experience.

    Ebooks are useful when travelling, otherwise give me the real thing every time.

    One thing I really wish was possible is if I buy a physical copy, I would get a code so I have the digital copy too - thus being able to keep the real thing in my bookshelf but be able to refer to the book when travelling.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478

    All those fervent Oxford University Remainers seem to conveniently forget that their great institution only arose because Henry II banned English students from attending the University of Paris. Where would they be without their own academic Brexit?

    And Cambridge University only came about because some big girls' blouses couldn't take a bit of Oxford "town v gown" rough and tumble.....

    Humour aside, should you be serious that's looking through wrong end of the telescope.
    Actually I can visualise cartoons built around that general idea.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    In which case it would not be surprising that there are several new universities in the top ten: at least six would have to be.
    We can solve that problem by having individual Oxbridge colleges.
    My old college came to pitch be to me the other day

    They argued that because they were top of the Norrington Table and Oxford was top of the university league tables they were the best academic institution in the world...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603

    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On poly to unis and new unis, yes most are very poorly ranked. However, there are a number which are now consistently ranked in the top 10-15 in the country eg bath, Exeter, Warwick, Surrey.

    In my experience they also seem to be some of the most pro-business / pro entrepreneur friendly institutions ie more akin to good us institutions, compared to some of the traditional institutions.

    I’m fairly sure Exeter and Warwick were never polytechnics.
    I said polys and new unis...
    What qualifies as a new university? Does that mean anything 20C or later?
    Anything that is not Aberdeen, St Andrews, Oxford or Cambridge
    Glasgow was founded before Aberdeen.
    In the 1960s, the term 'new university' I think referred specificially to the new institutions established on a site where there wasn't a college beforehand. When I went to a redbrick in 1971, I think the new ones were Sussex, Keele, Essex, UEA and Warwick. They were all regarded as inferior to the redbricks which in turn ranked below Oxbridge, UCL, etc.
    As an alumni of Warwick it is of course now ahead of almost every red brick university in the league tables with the possible exception of Bristol albeit still behind Oxbridge, UCL, LSE and Imperial
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,811
    kyf_100 said:

    Barnesian said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    PB readers: do you prefer physical copies of books or e-books? The latter solves the problem of shelf space.

    I've just gotten a kindle. It's fine, and essential for travel, but though I've needed to divest myself of old books to make space, I do like the look and feel of physical books . I like the display.
    The joy of books is that when you're done with them, you can pass them on to a friend who you know will appreciate them.

    Or, if you keep them, the ability to easily and quickly thumb your way to the page you'd like to re-read (this goes doubly so for nonfiction and technical books). Kindle's UI doesn't come close to replicating this - indeed I have bought books as a "one time" digitally only to re-buy them as real books when I found myself referring to them often.

    Personally, I find it very hard to 'concentrate' on an ebook (even on e-ink as opposed to ipad) vs printed text. Although I admit this seems to be just me.

    For me, the only area digital wins on is portability and overall space taken up. Given the choice, I would always prefer a physical copy.
    I can only use physical books. Many of my books are full of underlining, highlighting, and margin notes that make the book uniquely mine. Basically, I devour them. Sometimes I then burn them. Difficult with a Kindle.

    I remember in 1962, I left my copy of Brothers Karazomov at home with heavy underlying on the arguments between the brothers on the existence and benevolence of God. My mother, who was a fervent Catholic, found it and was rather disturbed at my margin notes.
    Agreed, I completely second this. I will highlight and make notes on all my nonfiction, but often find myself highlighting and questioning parts of literary fiction I enjoy too - the 'highlight' feature on an ebook doesn't come close to replicating the experience.

    Ebooks are useful when travelling, otherwise give me the real thing every time.

    One thing I really wish was possible is if I buy a physical copy, I would get a code so I have the digital copy too - thus being able to keep the real thing in my bookshelf but be able to refer to the book when travelling.
    I'm sure most dvds offer something like this, should be doable for books.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,158
    New thread, folks...
  • Charles said:

    PClipp said:

    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
    I thought it was Major who changed the polys?
    Yep. Another thing Major managed to screw up.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,603

    Charles said:

    PClipp said:

    RobD said:


    I'm commenting on what her typical reaction would have been to the Robbins report, given her policies during her term of office 1979-90 and especially once her majority reached 100+which meant under our system the only official opposition became the House of Lords. The article already cited on the OU contains the quote

    '... The cuts in 1981 were a disaster for British higher education – some of worst things that have ever happened to higher education ...’

    What was this disaster in 1981? Can't have been all that bad. :smiley:
    She realised - a bit late, but no matter - that the prospect of university education for their children was very popular with Conservative-voting parents. So she went into reverse on that one.... So much for "the lady`s not for turning".

    So much so that she promoted all the polytechnics to universities, without changing anything more than their names. These have been the butt of derision for all right-thinking PB Tories ever since.
    I thought it was Major who changed the polys?
    Yep. Another thing Major managed to screw up.
    Though Major did leave a growing economy and won the highest number of Tory seats in 1992 than any Tory leader since Thatcher
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,714
    felix said:

    Alistair said:

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    On topic I agree with David except about laying Ruth Davidson.

    I’m backing her.

    If she formally announces her intention to stand at Westminster her price is going to collapse.

    That's still quite a tall order -

    - She would need to find a winnable and probably therefore English seat.
    - Win the local constituency party's nomination.
    - Garner sufficient support of the Parliamentary Party to go into the final ballot.
    - Short of there being a "coronation", win the Tory membership vote.

    Taking account of the above, it might require a two stage process for her to become say the leader after next, which could take 9 years or more and by which time there are likely to be other, as yet unidentified contenders.
    I think there are several Scottish seats she could easily win on current polling - if they became vacant.
    Cuckoo
    Ahem - border seats, Aberdeenshire seats - you really think the Tories will lose them all on current polling. You obviously haven't had your daily turnip yet.
    John Lamont has spent his career trying g to become MP of BRS, he gave up his Holyrood seat to do so - he isn't moving.

    Dumfries and Galloway has a large Labour 3rd place to squeeze for an anti-terrorism vote.

    Only DCT of the borders seat is a viable seat for Mundell to step down and Davidson to take over.
    Oh indeed - my point was simply that Ruth could easily win a Scottish seat if one came up.
    LOL, in other words you were talking out of your rectum.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449

    Heartrending.

    twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/942002511690510336

    Jesus is he only 53. Perhaps the NHS could use him as a poster child for the effects of too much drinking and smoking.
    Does his treatment cost £350m a week?
This discussion has been closed.