One of the lasting images of election night this year was George Osborne in the ITV studios. As the exit poll was announced, his face first turned to shock and then to undisguised pleasure as he pronounced Theresa May a “dead woman walking”. The longer the night went on, the more jubilant he became. By the time the last few results came in, the former chancellor and now editor of the Evening Standard – among half a dozen other well-paid jobs – was all but standing on the table in the studio shouting “loser, loser” at the prime minister’s tear-stained face on the TV monitor.
The smile has barely left his face since. George is a man hell-bent on squeezing every bit of enjoyment out of his revenge. Scarcely a day goes by in the pages of his newspaper without him putting the boot into the woman who sacked him.
A deal has clearly been reached (pause to say I Told You So). I wonder what it will do for May's standing? The tortuous process and peculiar Government non-preparaions must have filtered through even to people not very interested in politics, but progress is progress. Does May get credit for battling through, or blame for making it so painful? The obvious question is whether the more difficult phase 2 will also reach a deal, but that's for the future.
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
As their 'Brexit will never happen' dream fades (Patron Saint Gina Miller) they need to keep up the 'Brexit will be a disaster' narrative (which failed so spectacularly in the referendum) in the hope that somehow Brexit may be averted......despite the polling showing that the Great British voter has supreme confidence in his own wisdom, but is much less convinced of that of politicians on either side of the Channel.....who will be blamed for any failure, the decision itself being sound...
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
As their 'Brexit will never happen' dream fades (Patron Saint Gina Miller) they need to keep up the 'Brexit will be a disaster' narrative (which failed so spectacularly in the referendum) in the hope that somehow Brexit may be averted......despite the polling showing that the Great British voter has supreme confidence in his own wisdom, but is much less convinced of that of politicians on either side of the Channel.....who will be blamed for any failure, the decision itself being sound...
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
May hasn't got everything she wanted, but the EU has compromised as well.
Bit like every negotiation really.
The EU have got the money guarantees they wanted, the citizens’ rights guarantees they wanted and the guarantees on the Irish border they wanted. That’s why we are heading to Phase 2. It’s very good news. No Deal is just about dead. Mrs May has done well to accept that and if she and the Brexiteers wish to spin it as a victory, why not? The most important thing is that we are going to avoid the cliff edge.
PB is a great resource. I'm not a gambler but find it my first port of call for news and opinions. Unfortunately, the past few days have not been amongst PB's finest. You've all been gripped, leavers and remainers alike, with some sort of mass hysteria. Everyone has turned into an armchair Prime Minister and seems to have a direct line to the EU or Number 10. Roger was actively hoping for a recession to starve all leavers into submission, for feck's sake! Please calm down!
Will be fascinating to see where the compromise has been made considering the impossibility of both no hard border in Ireland and no red line in the Irish SEA if we leave the Single Market and Customs Union.
Starmer has always talked about A customs union not THE Customs Union. I wonder if the same stunt has been pulled? May can claim success in leaving the original SM and CU by creating a new one that's identical to the old ones
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
May hasn't got everything she wanted, but the EU has compromised as well.
Bit like every negotiation really.
The EU have got the money guarantees they wanted, the citizens’ rights guarantees they wanted and the guarantees on the Irish border they wanted. That’s why we are heading to Phase 2. It’s very good news. No Deal is just about dead. Mrs May has done well to accept that and if she and the Brexiteers wish to spin it as a victory, why not? The most important thing is that we are going to avoid the cliff edge.
we;re heading for soft brexit
the last year of ramping and shouting has just been a waste of time
now we head in to the next year of ramping and shouting which will also be a waste of time
Will be fascinating to see where the compromise has been made considering the impossibility of both no hard border in Ireland and no red line in the Irish SEA if we leave the Single Market and Customs Union.
Starmer has always talked about A customs union not THE Customs Union. I wonder if the same stunt has been pulled? May can claim success in leaving the original SM and CU by creating a new one that's identical to the old ones
That looks to be precisely what we are going to get. And that is very good news.
So we're "leaving". Thank God for that. Being outside the Single Market and Customs Union but replicating all details of both so that we are effectively still in. Trade continues, the economy survives. Fox and his loons will go absolutely apeshit.
And they called David Cameron the essay crisis Prime Minister. On first reading, that looks like an elegant solution. I wonder whether the hard Brexiters realise how much has been conceded.
One bit that's curiously being left out of all these 'Irish border' tweets:
The United Kingdom also recalls its commitment to preserving the integrity of its internal market and Northern Ireland's place within it, as the United Kingdom leaves the European Union's Internal Market and Customs Union.
And they called David Cameron the essay crisis Prime Minister. On first reading, that looks like an elegant solution. I wonder whether the hard Brexiters realise how much has been conceded.
for me the most noticeable thing in the announcements was the toning down of rhetoric
@mattholehouse: STORY: ECJ to have role in monitoring citizens' rights for eight years.
Cases brought within eight years. So that means the ECJ could be hearing cases into the 2030s. The key point is that citizens’ rights in the UK will be enshrined in the UK legislation implementing the overall Treaty that is finally agreed, so the only way they can be changed is for the entire Treaty legislation to be repealed. Bottom line: EU citizens in the UK will continue to have more rights in certain areas than UK citizens!
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
May hasn't got everything she wanted, but the EU has compromised as well.
Bit like every negotiation really.
The EU have got the money guarantees they wanted, the citizens’ rights guarantees they wanted and the guarantees on the Irish border they wanted. That’s why we are heading to Phase 2. It’s very good news. No Deal is just about dead. Mrs May has done well to accept that and if she and the Brexiteers wish to spin it as a victory, why not? The most important thing is that we are going to avoid the cliff edge.
we;re heading for soft brexit
the last year of ramping and shouting has just been a waste of time
now we head in to the next year of ramping and shouting which will also be a waste of time
Yep - it’s out, but in. May really was a Remainer all this time! This is an exceptionally good day. Hats off to the PM. Not sure how the loons on the Tory right will react. But so what!!
PB is a great resource. I'm not a gambler but find it my first port of call for news and opinions. Unfortunately, the past few days have not been amongst PB's finest. You've all been gripped, leavers and remainers alike, with some sort of mass hysteria. Everyone has turned into an armchair Prime Minister and seems to have a direct line to the EU or Number 10. Roger was actively hoping for a recession to starve all leavers into submission, for feck's sake! Please calm down!
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
May hasn't got everything she wanted, but the EU has compromised as well.
Bit like every negotiation really.
The EU have got the money guarantees they wanted, the citizens’ rights guarantees they wanted and the guarantees on the Irish border they wanted. That’s why we are heading to Phase 2. It’s very good news. No Deal is just about dead. Mrs May has done well to accept that and if she and the Brexiteers wish to spin it as a victory, why not? The most important thing is that we are going to avoid the cliff edge.
+1. I’m pretty happy about this news and I’m apparently one of the evil Remainers whose supposed saint is Gina Miller.
@mattholehouse: STORY: ECJ to have role in monitoring citizens' rights for eight years.
Cases brought within eight years. So that means the ECJ could be hearing cases into the 2030s. The key point is that citizens’ rights in the UK will be enshrined in the UK legislation implementing the overall Treaty that is finally agreed, so the only way they can be changed is for the entire Treaty legislation to be repealed. Bottom line: EU citizens in the UK will continue to have more rights in certain areas than UK citizens!
@mattholehouse: STORY: ECJ to have role in monitoring citizens' rights for eight years.
Cases brought within eight years. So that means the ECJ could be hearing cases into the 2030s. The key point is that citizens’ rights in the UK will be enshrined in the UK legislation implementing the overall Treaty that is finally agreed, so the only way they can be changed is for the entire Treaty legislation to be repealed. Bottom line: EU citizens in the UK will continue to have more rights in certain areas than UK citizens!
Complete text:
This Part of the Agreement establishes rights for citizens following on from those established in Union law during the UK’s membership of the European Union; the CJEU is the ultimate arbiter of the interpretation of Union law. In the context of the application or interpretation of those rights, UK courts shall therefore have due regard to relevant decisions of the CJEU after the specified date4. The Agreement should also establish a mechanism enabling UK courts or tribunals to decide, having had due regard to whether relevant case-law exists, to ask the CJEU questions of interpretation of those rights where they consider that a CJEU ruling on the question is necessary for the UK court or tribunal to be able to give judgment in a case before it. This mechanism should be available for UK courts or tribunals for litigation brought within 8 years from the date of application of the citizens' rights Part.
Looks like the UK and EU will be very convergent through to 2020, with potential full divergence after 2026. So initially a soft Brexit, but the endgame looks like a complete split to me in the long term.
Also, if the Tory right don’t like this deal they can go and do one. It won’t be the JRMs of the world that will have to deal with the consequences of no deal.
@mattholehouse: STORY: ECJ to have role in monitoring citizens' rights for eight years.
Cases brought within eight years. So that means the ECJ could be hearing cases into the 2030s. The key point is that citizens’ rights in the UK will be enshrined in the UK legislation implementing the overall Treaty that is finally agreed, so the only way they can be changed is for the entire Treaty legislation to be repealed. Bottom line: EU citizens in the UK will continue to have more rights in certain areas than UK citizens!
@mattholehouse: STORY: ECJ to have role in monitoring citizens' rights for eight years.
Cases brought within eight years. So that means the ECJ could be hearing cases into the 2030s. The key point is that citizens’ rights in the UK will be enshrined in the UK legislation implementing the overall Treaty that is finally agreed, so the only way they can be changed is for the entire Treaty legislation to be repealed. Bottom line: EU citizens in the UK will continue to have more rights in certain areas than UK citizens!
Complete text:
This Part of the Agreement establishes rights for citizens following on from those established in Union law during the UK’s membership of the European Union; the CJEU is the ultimate arbiter of the interpretation of Union law. In the context of the application or interpretation of those rights, UK courts shall therefore have due regard to relevant decisions of the CJEU after the specified date4. The Agreement should also establish a mechanism enabling UK courts or tribunals to decide, having had due regard to whether relevant case-law exists, to ask the CJEU questions of interpretation of those rights where they consider that a CJEU ruling on the question is necessary for the UK court or tribunal to be able to give judgment in a case before it. This mechanism should be available for UK courts or tribunals for litigation brought within 8 years from the date of application of the citizens' rights Part.
Yep, so a case brought in Year 8 in the UK will go through first instance, appeal and Supreme Court, and can then go to the ECJ. That’s a long process.
So. We have a solution to how we leave the EU, Single Market and Customs Union without the economy ending event of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union.
So we are "leaving". Not formally a member. But maintaining "full alignment with the rules" of the Single Market and Customs Union. Rules like no external trade deals. Rules like free movement.
Once the EUphoria (see what I did there...) dies away, expect a choice of two options. 1. The nutters point to the fact that we aren't leaving anything in practice, have bent over on every red line and have achieved nothing and say "this is bollocks". May can't carry the deal in her own party and is replaced by Moggmentum 2. Everyone rallies round to insist that black really is white and that by not ending free movement we have ended free movement. Until in 2022 the voters turn around and say "this is bollocks" and once again vote for a 3rd time lucky Farage led UKIP in their millions
Also, if the Tory right don’t like this deal they can go and do one. It won’t be the JRMs of the world that will have to deal with the consequences of no deal.
The JRMs and the Leadsom's will say that they played their role, helping keep the EU's heavy roller in the shed, whilst a somewhat uncertain OK-but-less-than-perfect deal could be negotiated - under their threat of WTO walkaway if the negotiators screwed up.
Ask yourself this - is Boris-of-the-two-Essays disappointed about this deal? I'd say far from it....
"Fix later" - that no-one will quite find the urgency to fix.
As predicted.
Hmmm - the next sentences look more important.
Any deal on Ireland's border was always going to require a lorry-load of fudge.
Schrodinger's Fudge at that.
If the EU rejects the UK’s solutions, regulatory alignment will apply across the UK. So, either we come up with something the EU approves or we align our regulatory regime in a number of key areas with the EU.
So. We have a solution to how we leave the EU, Single Market and Customs Union without the economy ending event of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union.
So we are "leaving". Not formally a member. But maintaining "full alignment with the rules" of the Single Market and Customs Union. Rules like no external trade deals. Rules like free movement.
Once the EUphoria (see what I did there...) dies away, expect a choice of two options. 1. The nutters point to the fact that we aren't leaving anything in practice, have bent over on every red line and have achieved nothing and say "this is bollocks". May can't carry the deal in her own party and is replaced by Moggmentum 2. Everyone rallies round to insist that black really is white and that by not ending free movement we have ended free movement. Until in 2022 the voters turn around and say "this is bollocks" and once again vote for a 3rd time lucky Farage led UKIP in their millions
I thought that was pretty much the arrangement you wanted.
Yep, so a case brought in Year 8 in the UK will go through first instance, appeal and Supreme Court, and can then go to the ECJ. That’s a long process.
About two cases a year:
The UK courts have not asked the ECJ for help very often, compared with other member states
Negotiators are still locked in a stalemate over the role of the ECJ in enforcing citizens’ rights after Brexit. One point of clash is what the withdrawal agreement, the future partnership agreement and UK law should say about how the UK courts are to regard post-Brexit ECJ case law. Another is whether the UK Supreme Court should be obliged to refer questions of EU law on citizens’ rights to the ECJ after Brexit, as it is now.
Negotiators on both sides should be aware that the UK courts have not made references to the ECJ particularly often in recent years. The number of references from UK courts is average compared with other member states’. Around two references a year concern citizens’ rights.
Yep, she’s played a blinder. It’s taken her a fair few months, but she’s managed to convince Leavers they’ve won a great victory by agreeing to all the EU’s red lines. We’re leaving in name only. Rejoice!!!
"Flashpoint is a wibbly wobbly, timey wimey adventure centred around Barry Allen accidentally messing up the DC Universe timeline, to the point where Wonder Woman and Aquaman become arch enemies, and Batman is actually Bruce Wayne's father Thomas."
Jeez...just stop. Enough. Radical idea: go get some new ideas, Hollywood.
If automobile production was left to these guys, we'd have the 18-wheel family hatchback. Because someone thought it was a cool idea....
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
May hasn't got everything she wanted, but the EU has compromised as well.
Bit like every negotiation really.
The EU have got the money guarantees they wanted, the citizens’ rights guarantees they wanted and the guarantees on the Irish border they wanted. That’s why we are heading to Phase 2. It’s very good news. No Deal is just about dead. Mrs May has done well to accept that and if she and the Brexiteers wish to spin it as a victory, why not? The most important thing is that we are going to avoid the cliff edge.
we;re heading for soft brexit
the last year of ramping and shouting has just been a waste of time
now we head in to the next year of ramping and shouting which will also be a waste of time
Yep - it’s out, but in. May really was a Remainer all this time! This is an exceptionally good day. Hats off to the PM. Not sure how the loons on the Tory right will react. But so what!!
I have to say she has dealt this well. Softest Brexit at the moment. Now let's do a trade deal that takes years to implement.
If head-banging Brexiteers accept 8 years or more of ECJ jurisdiction, they will accept "gradual" Brexit taken over 15 years.
Everyone wins except JRM and co. Who the **** cares about them ?
So. We have a solution to how we leave the EU, Single Market and Customs Union without the economy ending event of leaving the Single Market and Customs Union.
So we are "leaving". Not formally a member. But maintaining "full alignment with the rules" of the Single Market and Customs Union. Rules like no external trade deals. Rules like free movement.
Once the EUphoria (see what I did there...) dies away, expect a choice of two options. 1. The nutters point to the fact that we aren't leaving anything in practice, have bent over on every red line and have achieved nothing and say "this is bollocks". May can't carry the deal in her own party and is replaced by Moggmentum 2. Everyone rallies round to insist that black really is white and that by not ending free movement we have ended free movement. Until in 2022 the voters turn around and say "this is bollocks" and once again vote for a 3rd time lucky Farage led UKIP in their millions
I thought that was pretty much the arrangement you wanted.
It is. I'm very happy for the country. As someone who negotiates for a living I remain greatly amused by our absolute capitulation on every one of our red lines. But you have to admit it will be fascinating to see the response from the Tories who allegedly were backed up by millions of foaming dog fever Brexiteers. Apparently if we don't end free movement it's betrayal.
"Flashpoint is a wibbly wobbly, timey wimey adventure centred around Barry Allen accidentally messing up the DC Universe timeline, to the point where Wonder Woman and Aquaman become arch enemies, and Batman is actually Bruce Wayne's father Thomas."
Jeez...just stop. Enough. Radical idea: go get some new ideas, Hollywood.
If automobile production was left to these guys, we'd have the 18-wheel family hatchback. Because someone thought it was a cool idea....
Flashpoint is one of my favourite stories, they covered it well on the tv show.
So, was Monday's breakdown real, or all part of an elaborate dance?
I suspect it was real. Quite possibly the UK government didn't (wasn't allowed to?) consult with the DUP enough - but what put the tin lid on it was the leaks to the Irish media - which convinced the DUP they were being steamrollered. Inexperienced Irish PM tried to go over the heads of NI.....
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
May hasn't got everything she wanted, but the EU has compromised as well.
Bit like every negotiation really.
The EU have got the money guarantees they wanted, the citizens’ rights guarantees they wanted and the guarantees on the Irish border they wanted. That’s why we are heading to Phase 2. It’s very good news. No Deal is just about dead. Mrs May has done well to accept that and if she and the Brexiteers wish to spin it as a victory, why not? The most important thing is that we are going to avoid the cliff edge.
we;re heading for soft brexit
the last year of ramping and shouting has just been a waste of time
now we head in to the next year of ramping and shouting which will also be a waste of time
Yep - it’s out, but in. May really was a Remainer all this time! This is an exceptionally good day. Hats off to the PM. Not sure how the loons on the Tory right will react. But so what!!
I have to say she has dealt this well. Softest Brexit at the moment. Now let's do a trade deal that takes years to implement.
If head-banging Brexiteers accept 8 years or more of ECJ jurisdiction, they will accept "gradual" Brexit taken over 15 years.
Everyone wins except JRM and co. Who the **** cares about them ?
you clearly do
youve been posting about them for most of the last year
Yep, she’s played a blinder. It’s taken her a fair few months, but she’s managed to convince Leavers they’ve won a great victory by agreeing to all the EU’s red lines. We’re leaving in name only. Rejoice!!!
Yep, so a case brought in Year 8 in the UK will go through first instance, appeal and Supreme Court, and can then go to the ECJ. That’s a long process.
About two cases a year:
The UK courts have not asked the ECJ for help very often, compared with other member states
Negotiators are still locked in a stalemate over the role of the ECJ in enforcing citizens’ rights after Brexit. One point of clash is what the withdrawal agreement, the future partnership agreement and UK law should say about how the UK courts are to regard post-Brexit ECJ case law. Another is whether the UK Supreme Court should be obliged to refer questions of EU law on citizens’ rights to the ECJ after Brexit, as it is now.
Negotiators on both sides should be aware that the UK courts have not made references to the ECJ particularly often in recent years. The number of references from UK courts is average compared with other member states’. Around two references a year concern citizens’ rights.
So, was Monday's breakdown real, or all part of an elaborate dance?
I suspect it was real. Quite possibly the UK government didn't (wasn't allowed to?) consult with the DUP enough - but what put the tin lid on it was the leaks to the Irish media - which convinced the DUP they were being steamrollered. Inexperienced Irish PM tried to go over the heads of NI.....
that's just about the key paranoia button for the DUP
Looks like the UK and EU will be very convergent through to 2020, with potential full divergence after 2026. So initially a soft Brexit, but the endgame looks like a complete split to me in the long term.
Which is what the free-market Brexit supporters (Dan Hannan et al) have always suggested, that Brexit is a process rather than an event.
"Fix later" - that no-one will quite find the urgency to fix.
As predicted.
Hmmm - the next sentences look more important.
Any deal on Ireland's border was always going to require a lorry-load of fudge.
Schrodinger's Fudge at that.
If the EU rejects the UK’s solutions, regulatory alignment will apply across the UK. So, either we come up with something the EU approves or we align our regulatory regime in a number of key areas with the EU.
Bye, bye chlorinated chicken!
Maybe, the DUP nutters have helped us all, after all by insisting that regulatory alignment will apply across the UK.
Looks like Single Market and Customs Union without being in the Single Market and Customs Union .
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
May hasn't got everything she wanted, but the EU has compromised as well.
Bit like every negotiation really.
The EU have got the money guarantees they wanted, the citizens’ rights guarantees they wanted and the guarantees on the Irish border they wanted. That’s why we are heading to Phase 2. It’s very good news. No Deal is just about dead. Mrs May has done well to accept that and if she and the Brexiteers wish to spin it as a victory, why not? The most important thing is that we are going to avoid the cliff edge.
You don't know that.
The EU have got less than was publicly asked for (which may not be what they wanted).
They are willing to accept what they have got (which may not be what they wanted).
"Flashpoint is a wibbly wobbly, timey wimey adventure centred around Barry Allen accidentally messing up the DC Universe timeline, to the point where Wonder Woman and Aquaman become arch enemies, and Batman is actually Bruce Wayne's father Thomas."
Jeez...just stop. Enough. Radical idea: go get some new ideas, Hollywood.
If automobile production was left to these guys, we'd have the 18-wheel family hatchback. Because someone thought it was a cool idea....
Flashpoint is one of my favourite stories, they covered it well on the tv show.
Exactly. It's all been done before.
It's as appealling as having Brexit on repeat play, every few years....
What is it about Remainers who are determined to present this as a whitewash for the EU?
May hasn't got everything she wanted, but the EU has compromised as well.
Bit like every negotiation really.
The EU have got the money guarantees they wanted, the citizens’ rights guarantees they wanted and the guarantees on the Irish border they wanted. That’s why we are heading to Phase 2. It’s very good news. No Deal is just about dead. Mrs May has done well to accept that and if she and the Brexiteers wish to spin it as a victory, why not? The most important thing is that we are going to avoid the cliff edge.
You don't know that.
The EU have got less than was publicly asked for (which may not be what they wanted).
They are willing to accept what they have got (which may not be what they wanted).
"Fix later" - that no-one will quite find the urgency to fix.
As predicted.
Hmmm - the next sentences look more important.
Any deal on Ireland's border was always going to require a lorry-load of fudge.
Schrodinger's Fudge at that.
If the EU rejects the UK’s solutions, regulatory alignment will apply across the UK. So, either we come up with something the EU approves or we align our regulatory regime in a number of key areas with the EU.
Bye, bye chlorinated chicken!
Maybe, the DUP nutters have helped us all, after all by insisting that regulatory alignment will apply across the UK.
Looks like Single Market and Customs Union without being in the Single Market and Customs Union .
What else was Farage ever going to say? " Yay! We have cast off Brussel's yoke! Thank you all those UKIP voters who made this happen...." Nah. He's all piss and wind. Always has been.
The red-line that would have REALLY got him fired up is if May had insisted we weren't going to honour EU pensions...
Yep, so a case brought in Year 8 in the UK will go through first instance, appeal and Supreme Court, and can then go to the ECJ. That’s a long process.
About two cases a year:
The UK courts have not asked the ECJ for help very often, compared with other member states
Negotiators are still locked in a stalemate over the role of the ECJ in enforcing citizens’ rights after Brexit. One point of clash is what the withdrawal agreement, the future partnership agreement and UK law should say about how the UK courts are to regard post-Brexit ECJ case law. Another is whether the UK Supreme Court should be obliged to refer questions of EU law on citizens’ rights to the ECJ after Brexit, as it is now.
Negotiators on both sides should be aware that the UK courts have not made references to the ECJ particularly often in recent years. The number of references from UK courts is average compared with other member states’. Around two references a year concern citizens’ rights.
Well done Theresa May. This progress should massively reassure business, and ensure that the economy doesn't tank in 2018 which might endanger the whole Brexit project.
Well done Theresa May. This progress should massively reassure business, and ensure that the economy doesn't tank in 2018 which might endanger the whole Brexit project.
I hope she is rewarded in the polls.
I'm pleased to see that tripe (from the toys out of the pram Remainers) about her not surviving till Christmas has stopped.
Also, specially for WilliamGlenn, how does staying in the EU work from here? Grin.
A deal has clearly been reached (pause to say I Told You So). I wonder what it will do for May's standing? The tortuous process and peculiar Government non-preparaions must have filtered through even to people not very interested in politics, but progress is progress. Does May get credit for battling through, or blame for making it so painful? The obvious question is whether the more difficult phase 2 will also reach a deal, but that's for the future.
I'm also going to claim an I told you so on this...
If May gets blamed it will be because she didn't fight hard enough/made too many compromises - not because it was too painful.
Her worry has to be, as it always has been, the Brexiteer flank.
Yep, she’s played a blinder. It’s taken her a fair few months, but she’s managed to convince Leavers they’ve won a great victory by agreeing to all the EU’s red lines. We’re leaving in name only. Rejoice!!!
Well done Theresa May. This progress should massively reassure business, and ensure that the economy doesn't tank in 2018 which might endanger the whole Brexit project.
I hope she is rewarded in the polls.
Are you mad? She's told everyone that we HAVE to leave the customs union and single market or it's a BETRAYAL of the VOTERS. And is delivering that in practice we DON'T leave either. A name only holodeck solution where we leave but obey all the rules. Including free movement.
You think "I want an end to free movement" voters are going to reward her for utter capitulation and not ending free movement?
Yep, so a case brought in Year 8 in the UK will go through first instance, appeal and Supreme Court, and can then go to the ECJ. That’s a long process.
About two cases a year:
The UK courts have not asked the ECJ for help very often, compared with other member states
Negotiators are still locked in a stalemate over the role of the ECJ in enforcing citizens’ rights after Brexit. One point of clash is what the withdrawal agreement, the future partnership agreement and UK law should say about how the UK courts are to regard post-Brexit ECJ case law. Another is whether the UK Supreme Court should be obliged to refer questions of EU law on citizens’ rights to the ECJ after Brexit, as it is now.
Negotiators on both sides should be aware that the UK courts have not made references to the ECJ particularly often in recent years. The number of references from UK courts is average compared with other member states’. Around two references a year concern citizens’ rights.
It's hilarious on here this morning watching the Remainers flail around grasping for a new line of attack on the Government.
I've actually read the agreement and I'm surprised at how reasonable and practical it is. The EU has also compromised in a number of areas.
So much bollocks is talked on here.
Post of the year, the last few days on here have been so embarrassing, so many armchair generals who think they know it all and have a hotline to the corridors of power.
Comments
Edit - and Second like REMAIN, Labour & Yes......
One of the lasting images of election night this year was George Osborne in the ITV studios. As the exit poll was announced, his face first turned to shock and then to undisguised pleasure as he pronounced Theresa May a “dead woman walking”. The longer the night went on, the more jubilant he became. By the time the last few results came in, the former chancellor and now editor of the Evening Standard – among half a dozen other well-paid jobs – was all but standing on the table in the studio shouting “loser, loser” at the prime minister’s tear-stained face on the TV monitor.
The smile has barely left his face since. George is a man hell-bent on squeezing every bit of enjoyment out of his revenge. Scarcely a day goes by in the pages of his newspaper without him putting the boot into the woman who sacked him.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/07/gentle-george-struggles-to-keep-his-killer-instincts-in-check?CMP=twt_gu
May hasn't got everything she wanted, but the EU has compromised as well.
Bit like every negotiation really.
CJEU - 8 years.....
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf
Starmer has always talked about A customs union not THE Customs Union. I wonder if the same stunt has been pulled? May can claim success in leaving the original SM and CU by creating a new one that's identical to the old ones
the last year of ramping and shouting has just been a waste of time
now we head in to the next year of ramping and shouting which will also be a waste of time
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/939026297765769222
The United Kingdom also recalls its commitment to preserving the integrity of its internal market and Northern Ireland's place within it, as the United Kingdom leaves the European Union's Internal Market and Customs Union.
PB could learn from it
My only concern, how does she get approval of the 8 year CJEU role from the likes of JRM and the other Leadbangers?
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/939027327614312454
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf
As predicted.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/939028092282052608
It was the quote button for heaven's sake
it;s either a clever wheeze to force the lazy buggers back to work ot theyve recognised they can string this out for years
This Part of the Agreement establishes rights for citizens following on from those established in Union law during the UK’s membership of the European Union; the CJEU is the ultimate arbiter of the interpretation of Union law. In the context of the application or interpretation of those rights, UK courts shall therefore have due regard to relevant decisions of the CJEU after the specified date4. The Agreement should also establish a mechanism enabling UK courts or tribunals to decide, having had due regard to whether relevant case-law exists, to ask the CJEU questions of interpretation of those rights where they consider that a CJEU ruling on the question is necessary for the UK court or tribunal to be able to give judgment in a case before it. This mechanism should be available for UK courts or tribunals for litigation brought within 8 years from the date of application of the citizens' rights Part.
Schrodinger's Fudge at that.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/939028945827008513
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/939027757954097152
So initially a soft Brexit, but the endgame looks like a complete split to me in the long term.
I can wait 8 years for that.
So we are "leaving". Not formally a member. But maintaining "full alignment with the rules" of the Single Market and Customs Union. Rules like no external trade deals. Rules like free movement.
Once the EUphoria (see what I did there...) dies away, expect a choice of two options.
1. The nutters point to the fact that we aren't leaving anything in practice, have bent over on every red line and have achieved nothing and say "this is bollocks". May can't carry the deal in her own party and is replaced by Moggmentum
2. Everyone rallies round to insist that black really is white and that by not ending free movement we have ended free movement. Until in 2022 the voters turn around and say "this is bollocks" and once again vote for a 3rd time lucky Farage led UKIP in their millions
Ask yourself this - is Boris-of-the-two-Essays disappointed about this deal? I'd say far from it....
Bye, bye chlorinated chicken!
The Batman director likely to recast Ben Affleck, but it may not be the end for Batfleck
http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/batman/news/a844921/the-batman-director-recasting-ben-affleck-staying-for-flashpoint/
We're all leavers now.
Etc etc.
Well done Mrs May.
The UK courts have not asked the ECJ for help very often, compared with other member states
Negotiators are still locked in a stalemate over the role of the ECJ in enforcing citizens’ rights after Brexit. One point of clash is what the withdrawal agreement, the future partnership agreement and UK law should say about how the UK courts are to regard post-Brexit ECJ case law. Another is whether the UK Supreme Court should be obliged to refer questions of EU law on citizens’ rights to the ECJ after Brexit, as it is now.
Negotiators on both sides should be aware that the UK courts have not made references to the ECJ particularly often in recent years. The number of references from UK courts is average compared with other member states’. Around two references a year concern citizens’ rights.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/IfG_Brexit_ECJ_v10FINAL web.pdf
Jeez...just stop. Enough. Radical idea: go get some new ideas, Hollywood.
If automobile production was left to these guys, we'd have the 18-wheel family hatchback. Because someone thought it was a cool idea....
If head-banging Brexiteers accept 8 years or more of ECJ jurisdiction, they will accept "gradual" Brexit taken over 15 years.
Everyone wins except JRM and co. Who the **** cares about them ?
We haven't ended free movement.
youve been posting about them for most of the last year
Oh good - quote button working again!
Looks like Single Market and Customs Union without being in the Single Market and Customs Union .
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/939033370834583553
The EU have got less than was publicly asked for (which may not be what they wanted).
They are willing to accept what they have got (which may not be what they wanted).
The same goes for the EU.
It's as appealling as having Brexit on repeat play, every few years....
The red-line that would have REALLY got him fired up is if May had insisted we weren't going to honour EU pensions...
I hope she is rewarded in the polls.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/prime-ministers-commitments-to-northern-ireland/prime-ministers-commitments-to-northern-ireland
Also, specially for WilliamGlenn, how does staying in the EU work from here? Grin.
If May gets blamed it will be because she didn't fight hard enough/made too many compromises - not because it was too painful.
Her worry has to be, as it always has been, the Brexiteer flank.
You think "I want an end to free movement" voters are going to reward her for utter capitulation and not ending free movement?
I've actually read the agreement and I'm surprised at how reasonable and practical it is. The EU has also compromised in a number of areas.
So much bollocks is talked on here.