What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
1) George Soros is Jewish.
2) Jews as the puppet masters controlling the world/top politicians is a well known/used anti-Semitic trope in posters/images.
that wouldnt have occurred to me until your pointed it out
it looks more like rich gits own politicians
Exactly. Seems there is only one person around here who thinks people's religious and ethnic backgrounds should be a matter for political debate. Stand up Mr Screaming Eagles.
You're kinda missing the point, the person in the Sturgeon/Miliband poster, the puppet master isn't Jewish.
This is what happens when Leave.EU ran with a Nazi era poster last year, people think the worst of you.
Once is unfortunate, twice looks like a pattern, especially if the front man of Leave.EU had been railing about the influence of Jews recently.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
1) George Soros is Jewish.
2) Jews as the puppet masters controlling the world/top politicians is a well known/used anti-Semitic trope in posters/images.
that wouldnt have occurred to me until your pointed it out
it looks more like rich gits own politicians
Exactly. Seems there is only one person around here who thinks people's religious and ethnic backgrounds should be a matter for political debate. Stand up Mr Screaming Eagles.
You're kinda missing the point, the person in the Sturgeon/Miliband poster, the puppet master isn't Jewish.
This is what happens when Leave.EU ran with a Nazi era poster last year, people think the worst of you.
Once is unfortunate, twice looks like a pattern, especially if the front man of Leave.EU had been railing about the influence of Jews recently.
Which people ?
most people wont have seen it and few of them will give a shit let alone connect it with the 1930s
"In 5000BC, Britain had a population of maybe 6,000. In 1500AD, England had a population of 2 million or so. In 1801, England had a population of just under 8 million. In 1901, England had a population of just over 30 million. In 2001, England had a population of a touch under 50 million.
I don't see any reason why England is full at its present 55 million or so, any more than it was full at any of those previous dates."
All true. But a country is a home with a history and a culture and a way of doing things, a way of living, an approach to space and countryside. A country is not a boarding-house or a storage facility which needs to be filled to the very brim.
The fact that we may be able to cram more people in does not mean that we should without, at the very least, some sensible debate about whether we want to and what the implications of such a course of action are, and not just for a country's GDP.
See for instance @kyf_100's comment: "I think that AlastairMeeks quite sensibly suggested a few weeks ago that one thing we can do is switch away from building small sized semis with their tiny tufts of garden out front and back to medium density housing, four or five storeys high."
That is one sensible possibility to make more use of the space we have. But houses with gardens are a very British thing and very desirable for families. I have lived in one and in the sort of 5-storey apartment with no outside space, both as an adult and child, and the latter are not great for families. But in any case if we're going to make such a change to our urban environment then it should be our positive choice because we want to not because we're forced to because we have lost or given up control of who comes into the country.
Worth noting that newspapers are very rarely a source of news. Even when they break a story you hear it first the night before on the telly, radio or social media.
Amazing that the Express escapes the relegation zone. In terms of services to opinion polling it's performance is right up there with the best of Cambrian Tyres Division 2, and the rest of what is in there increasingly resembles the contents of the National Enquirer. Probably it would be Trump's UK newspaper of choice.
I would put the i above the Guardian, Telegraph and Times because only the former does not have a very clear and obvious agenda in left-right political terms (notwithstanding a clear position against Brexit). The Telegraph in particular is vastly overranked.
In fact I would put all of the broadcast media outlets (including Sky News) above all of the newspapers, with ITV News top of the lot.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
1) George Soros is Jewish.
2) Jews as the puppet masters controlling the world/top politicians is a well known/used anti-Semitic trope in posters/images.
that wouldnt have occurred to me until your pointed it out
it looks more like rich gits own politicians
Exactly. Seems there is only one person around here who thinks people's religious and ethnic backgrounds should be a matter for political debate. Stand up Mr Screaming Eagles.
You're kinda missing the point, the person in the Sturgeon/Miliband poster, the puppet master isn't Jewish.
This is what happens when Leave.EU ran with a Nazi era poster last year, people think the worst of you.
Once is unfortunate, twice looks like a pattern, especially if the front man of Leave.EU had been railing about the influence of Jews recently.
Which people ?
most people wont have seen it and few of them will give a shit let alone connect it with the 1930s
that bus didnt even have to try did it ?
Anyone with a decent understanding of history and a half working racism detector.
I've said the bus didn't win it, Leave's focus on immigration and borders did.
BBC trust is high, but the dominance over local & national radio, internet & TV news is extraordinarily, I'm never comfortable with that.
Google, Facebook, Twitter are bigger worries if you're into media dominance . The BBC is the only one with any skin at all in that game.
The BBC are implicitly barred from competing with those services. The fact you compare them shows they're trying to extend their brief more than their charter says.
It should not be barred. It should be encouraged and funded to do so outside UK.
If it is not barred from those markets, then those markets should be made a level playing field. That involves removing its funding advantage.
BBC Worldwide does rather well outside the UK.
I notice today they want to borrow £500m to buy out the remainder of UKTV. Absolutely stupid idea. The reason current 50% want to sell is advertising revenue is down, massive increased competition, and running traditional tv channels (even is mostly repeats) is expensive.
When it was setup, it was a good idea to exploit repeats that couldn't be fit into the schedule of BBC, ITV, CH4, now with always on-demand there is absolutely no need for a set of repeats channel like Dave.
"I think the point was that we had a workable relationship with our neighbour and largest trading partner and as a part of that relationship there was freedom of movement. This was part of a broader set of agreements which proved to be mutually beneficial. Over the years both parties have benefited.
What I think happened with the referendum is that this one element of the overall relationship was focused on by people who have never liked immigration and probably never will.
In years gone by EU immigration has ebbed and flowed and before that there was other kinds of immigration (Huguenots, Jews, Asian, Afro-Caribbean) and my guess is those were not liked either. The difference at the EU Ref was that those people who didn't like immigration could finally do something about it. So they did."
True but misses the point I think. The levels of immigration in the two decades leading up to the referendum were very high, much much higher, both in absolute and relative terms than in any previous period of our history. Between 1964 - 1974, net migration was negative; until about 1996 it was running at ca. 40-50,000 p.a. From 1997 it tripled in one year - going to 140,000 in 1998 and was then at ca. 200,000 p.a. A total of 3.6 million people came to Britain during the 1997-2010 period. That is an enormous number for a small country.
To contrast, in 1907 the US received 1.3 million people. At the rate of immigration into the UK, every 4 years the UK was receiving the same number of people as the US did in one of the years when its annual immigration was at its highest. The UK is not a quarter of the size of the US.
I am not one of those who dislikes immigration. Indeed, I have gone on record here (and am one of the few to say so) who thinks that opening up our country to the Poles was a good, generous and moral thing to have done. Germany's attitude to immigration from Poland was, IMO, a disgrace. But when the numbers reach the sort of levels they did then concern about immigration and about how best to control it was not the concern of just those who disliked foreigners.
We are not a small country.
We are, relatively speaking. And we are crowded, relatively speaking. Of course we can probably make better use of the space in our urban centres but that should be our choice not something forced on us because we cannot - or cannot be bothered to - have a sensible debate about and sensible controls on who is or is not let into the country.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
I thought you were related to the late John Tyndall? Surely you've taken the trouble to investigate the subtleties of political racism?
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
I thought you were related to the late John Tyndall? Surely you've taken the trouble to investigate the subtleties of political racism?
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
1) George Soros is Jewish.
2) Jews as the puppet masters controlling the world/top politicians is a well known/used anti-Semitic trope in posters/images.
that wouldnt have occurred to me until your pointed it out
it looks more like rich gits own politicians
Exactly. Seems there is only one person around here who thinks people's religious and ethnic backgrounds should be a matter for political debate. Stand up Mr Screaming Eagles.
You're kinda missing the point, the person in the Sturgeon/Miliband of Leave.EU had been railing about the influence of Jews recently.
Which people ?
most people wont have seen it and few of them will give a shit let alone connect it with the 1930s
that bus didnt even have to try did it ?
Anyone with a decent understanding of history and a half working racism detector.
I've said the bus didn't win it, Leave's focus on immigration and borders did.
Or it could just be that in the world of self perpetuating bubbles you dont get to see things from others perspectives. So if youre only talking to people who agree with you youre shocked when your view is laughed t.
I could (maybe?) (just about?) vote for a Javid-led tory party (perhaps?) if he could offer a sane, liberal, centrist agenda - and drag his party along with him;
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
I thought you were related to the late John Tyndall? Surely you've taken the trouble to investigate the subtleties of political racism?
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
A Jewish journalist flagged it up, and here's the Nazis using it.
"I think the point was that we had a workable relationship with our neighbour and largest trading partner and as a part of that relationship there was freedom of movement. This was part of a broader set of agreements which proved to be mutually beneficial. Over the years both parties have benefited.
What I think happened with the referendum is that this one element of the overall relationship was focused on by people who have never liked immigration and probably never will.
In years gone by EU immigration has ebbed and flowed and before that there was other kinds of immigration (Huguenots, Jews, Asian, Afro-Caribbean) and my guess is those were not liked either. The difference at the EU Ref was that those people who didn't like immigration could finally do something about it. So they did."
True but misses the point I think. The levels of immigration in the two decades leading up to the referendum were very high, much much higher, both in absolute and relative terms than in any previous period of our history. Between 1964 - 1974, net migration was negative; until about 1996 it was running at ca. 40-50,000 p.a. From 1997 it tripled in one year - going to 140,000 in 1998 and was then at ca. 200,000 p.a. A total of 3.6 million people came to Britain during the 1997-2010 period. That is an enormous number for a small country.
To contrast, in 1907 the US received 1.3 million people. At the rate of immigration into the UK, every 4 years the UK was receiving the same number of people as the US did in one of the years when its annual immigration was at its highest. The UK is not a quarter of the size of the US.
I am not one of those who dislikes immigration. Indeed, I have gone on record here (and am one of the few to say so) who thinks that opening up our country to the Poles was a good, generous and moral thing to have done. Germany's attitude to immigration from Poland was, IMO, a disgrace. But when the numbers reach the sort of levels they did then concern about immigration and about how best to control it was not the concern of just those who disliked foreigners.
We are not a small country.
We are, relatively speaking. And we are crowded, relatively speaking. Of course we can probably make better use of the space in our urban centres but that should be our choice not something forced on us because we cannot - or cannot be bothered to - have a sensible debate about and sensible controls on who is or is not let into the country.
We had the ability to have sensible controls in the EU.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
A Jewish journalist flagged it up, and here's the Nazis using it.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
I thought you were related to the late John Tyndall? Surely you've taken the trouble to investigate the subtleties of political racism?
HUH....What have I got to do with anything.
Must have pressed the wrong knob. Seems to be a lot of it about....Sorry.
"I think the point was that we had a workable relationship with our neighbour and largest trading partner and as a part of that relationship there was freedom of movement. This was part of a broader set of agreements which proved to be mutually beneficial. Over the years both parties have benefited.
What I think happened with the referendum is that this one element of the overall relationship was focused on by people who have never liked immigration and probably never will.
In years gone by EU immigration has ebbed and flowed and before that there was other kinds of immigration (Huguenots, Jews, Asian, Afro-Caribbean) and my guess is those were not liked either. The difference at the EU Ref was that those people who didn't like immigration could finally do something about it. So they did."
True but misses the point I think. The levels of immigration in the two decades leading up to the referendum were very high, much much higher, both in absolute and relative terms than in any previous period of our history. Between 1964 - 1974, net migration was negative; until about 1996 it was running at ca. 40-50,000 p.a. From 1997 it tripled in one year - going to 140,000 in 1998 and was then at ca. 200,000 p.a. A total of 3.6 million people came to Britain during the 1997-2010 period. That is an enormous number for a small country.
To contrast, in 1907 the US received 1.3 million people. At the rate of immigration into the UK, every 4 years the UK was receiving the same number of people as the US did in one of the years when its annual immigration was at its highest. The UK is not a quarter of the size of the US.
I am not one of those who dislikes immigration. Indeed, I have gone on record here (and am one of the few to say so) who thinks that opening up our country to the Poles was a good, generous and moral thing to have done. Germany's attitude to immigration from Poland was, IMO, a disgrace. But when the numbers reach the sort of levels they did then concern about immigration and about how best to control it was not the concern of just those who disliked foreigners.
We are not a small country.
We are, relatively speaking. And we are crowded, relatively speaking. Of course we can probably make better use of the space in our urban centres but that should be our choice not something forced on us because we cannot - or cannot be bothered to - have a sensible debate about and sensible controls on who is or is not let into the country.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
I thought you were related to the late John Tyndall? Surely you've taken the trouble to investigate the subtleties of political racism?
Why officials in Labour government pushed 'dash for diesel'
The records confirm that ministers and civil servants in the Labour government were well aware that diesel pollution damages air quality (even if perhaps they did not appreciate the full extent). But officials preparing the 2000 Budget argued against higher tax for diesel cars "so we are not seen as being overly harsh on diesel users".
Advice from the Treasury's tax policy section presented to ministers stated: "Relative to petrol, diesel has lower emissions of CO2 but higher emissions of the particulates and pollutants which damage local air quality. A diesel supplement is necessary so that we do not create incentives for people to choose diesel vehicles over similar petrol models in order to attract a lower VED rate."
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
I thought you were related to the late John Tyndall? Surely you've taken the trouble to investigate the subtleties of political racism?
I posted Ken Clarke's budget statement from 1996 a couple of weeks ago to make a point about 'boom and bust', but the really interesting thing was his comments about penalising diesels to improve air quality in towns and cities.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
A Jewish journalist flagged it up, and here's the Nazis using it.
is this a real jewish journalist or a twitter account called Emmanuel Goldberg sat in Sverdlovsk ?
Surely you mean Yekaterinburg? Not sure they ever had the internet in Sverdlovsk.
score draw
yekaterinburg is the town, sverdlovsk the oblast
Ah! Sverdlovsk also used to be the town until renamed in 1991 post fall of the Soviet Union. Hence my comment about it never having had the internet.
It was a military town, with extremely limited communications with the outside world and very restricted access. Site of the infamous Sverdlovsk incident, where anthrax was accidentally released from an undeclared, illegal biological weapons facility, killing some 100 people down wind.
It was also Yeltsin's home town, and was his back up capital if Moscow got too dangerous.
' When the abolition of the paper tax disc was announced by then-Chancellor, George Osborne, the Treasury said it showed government was moving "into the modern age". '
I suspect some 'consultants' were involved as well.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
A Jewish journalist flagged it up, and here's the Nazis using it.
is this a real jewish journalist or a twitter account called Emmanuel Goldberg sat in Sverdlovsk ?
Surely you mean Yekaterinburg? Not sure they ever had the internet in Sverdlovsk.
score draw
yekaterinburg is the town, sverdlovsk the oblast
Ah! Sverdlovsk also used to be the town until renamed in 1991 post fall of the Soviet Union. Hence my comment about it never having had the internet.
It was a military town, with extremely limited communications with the outside world and very restricted access. Site of the infamous Sverdlovsk incident, where anthrax was accidentally released from an undeclared, illegal biological weapons facility, killing some 100 people down wind.
It was also Yeltsin's home town, and was his back up capital if Moscow got too dangerous.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
I thought you were related to the late John Tyndall? Surely you've taken the trouble to investigate the subtleties of political racism?
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
I thought you were related to the late John Tyndall? Surely you've taken the trouble to investigate the subtleties of political racism?
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
A Jewish journalist flagged it up, and here's the Nazis using it.
is this a real jewish journalist or a twitter account called Emmanuel Goldberg sat in Sverdlovsk ?
Surely you mean Yekaterinburg? Not sure they ever had the internet in Sverdlovsk.
score draw
yekaterinburg is the town, sverdlovsk the oblast
Ah! Sverdlovsk also used to be the town until renamed in 1991 post fall of the Soviet Union. Hence my comment about it never having had the internet.
It was a military town, with extremely limited communications with the outside world and very restricted access. Site of the infamous Sverdlovsk incident, where anthrax was accidentally released from an undeclared, illegal biological weapons facility, killing some 100 people down wind.
It was also Yeltsin's home town, and was his back up capital if Moscow got too dangerous.
Also of course where the Russian Royal Family were executed in 1918.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
Jew-as-puppet-master is the oldest caricature in the book
Are either of the people mentioned Jewish? I am well informed politically and was not aware of that. It seems the only person keeping track of Jews around and trying to make a political point out of their heritage here is that well known bigot TSE. Par for the course from him I'm afraid.
I would bet 99.9% of people seeing that poster would not have the first idea about it being anti-Semitic and nor would those who came up with it. Only sad losers like TSE are trying to make it an issue.
I thought you were related to the late John Tyndall? Surely you've taken the trouble to investigate the subtleties of political racism?
I was indeed related to John Tyndall NF Founder (and also to the older John Tyndall who was my great great... (a few more greats I think) Uncle).
But I was more interested in fighting racists than learning their creed. And I had no idea that Soros was Jewish. I am afraid it was the bigot TSE who seemed to think that was a matter of interest.
Mind you given his admiration for Cameron and Osborne and their use of this apparent anti-Semitic meme in 2015 I am not surprised he is steeped in anti-Semitism himself.
' When the abolition of the paper tax disc was announced by then-Chancellor, George Osborne, the Treasury said it showed government was moving "into the modern age". '
I suspect some 'consultants' were involved as well.
' When the abolition of the paper tax disc was announced by then-Chancellor, George Osborne, the Treasury said it showed government was moving "into the modern age". '
I suspect some 'consultants' were involved as well.
Absolute shambles
I've even dobbed in untaxed cars and nothings happened.
Its not been a good week for the reliability of anecdotes.
Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.
Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.
But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.
' When the abolition of the paper tax disc was announced by then-Chancellor, George Osborne, the Treasury said it showed government was moving "into the modern age". '
I suspect some 'consultants' were involved as well.
Absolute shambles
Osborne's tenure as Chancellor beginning to seem an Omnishambles.
Its not been a good week for the reliability of anecdotes.
Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.
Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.
But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.
Bloody foreign raspberries coming over here and taking our punnets.
' When the abolition of the paper tax disc was announced by then-Chancellor, George Osborne, the Treasury said it showed government was moving "into the modern age". '
I suspect some 'consultants' were involved as well.
Absolute shambles
the CEO thinks the Civil Service can benefit from his expertise
I know you are but after reading about your Uncle from County Carlow I thought we should swap historical obituaries.
Funnily enough we did a trip to County Carlow a few years ago and thought we would go to Leighlinbridge to see where my ancestor of sorts was born.
We were pleasantly surprised to find that his early life there is well marked and the town makes something of the fact he was born there. We were rather more surprised to find his grave in the local graveyard. Mostly because he is in fact buried in Haslemere in Surrey.
' When the abolition of the paper tax disc was announced by then-Chancellor, George Osborne, the Treasury said it showed government was moving "into the modern age". '
I suspect some 'consultants' were involved as well.
Absolute shambles
I would have thought the better idea would have been to make the display of an insurance and an MOT disc obligatory as well.
I suspect many of the non-taxed cars are also lacking insurance and MOT certificates.
Its not been a good week for the reliability of anecdotes.
Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.
Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.
But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.
It says on the label. Spain, probably. We get big flavourless Egyptian strawberries over winter but not rasps afaik.
Its not been a good week for the reliability of anecdotes.
Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.
Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.
But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.
I've still got raspberries on my unprotected canes here in Edinburgh. I'm sure the Perth polytunnels are still producing.
Its not been a good week for the reliability of anecdotes.
Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.
Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.
But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.
Bloody foreign raspberries coming over here and taking our punnets.
Even more incredibly some of the raspberries were claiming to be British.
Either the farmer has found some of those supposedly non-existent farmworkers or he's charging some hipsters for a raspberry picking experience.
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
1) George Soros is Jewish.
2) Jews as the puppet masters controlling the world/top politicians is a well known/used anti-Semitic trope in posters/images.
that wouldnt have occurred to me until your pointed it out
it looks more like rich gits own politicians
Exactly. Seems there is only one person around here who thinks people's religious and ethnic backgrounds should be a matter for political debate. Stand up Mr Screaming Eagles.
I know he's yesterday's man and his one time acolytes wouldn't touch him with someone else's shitty stick, but Farage seems very keen to discuss people's religious and ethnic backgrounds.
"Nigel Farage: 'Jewish lobby' has disproportionate power in the US 'Farage’s clumsy use of the terms Israel and Jewish lobby interchangeably and his reference to their ‘power’ has crossed the line into well-known antisemitic tropes,' says Board of Deputies"
Its not been a good week for the reliability of anecdotes.
Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.
Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.
But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.
It says on the label. Spain, probably. We get big flavourless Egyptian strawberries over winter but not rasps afaik.
These were local market rather than supermarket raspberries.
So the price varies markedly and rapidly depending on whether the fruit is in season.
And which means you get a free plastic bag with your purchase but that you have to eat them quicker than the supermarket produce.
' When the abolition of the paper tax disc was announced by then-Chancellor, George Osborne, the Treasury said it showed government was moving "into the modern age". '
I suspect some 'consultants' were involved as well.
Absolute shambles
I've even dobbed in untaxed cars and nothings happened.
Even before this, however, I drove a car with an out-of-date tax disc for a whole year and nobody spotted it. In fact, I only spotted it when I came to replace the disc!
The irony is even greater as for much of that year I was working for the government...
What has anti-Semitism got to do with that advert?
1) George Soros is Jewish.
2) Jews as the puppet masters controlling the world/top politicians is a well known/used anti-Semitic trope in posters/images.
that wouldnt have occurred to me until your pointed it out
it looks more like rich gits own politicians
Exactly. Seems there is only one person around here who thinks people's religious and ethnic backgrounds should be a matter for political debate. Stand up Mr Screaming Eagles.
I know he's yesterday's man and his one time acolytes wouldn't touch him with someone else's shitty stick, but Farage seems very keen to discuss people's religious and ethnic backgrounds.
"Nigel Farage: 'Jewish lobby' has disproportionate power in the US 'Farage’s clumsy use of the terms Israel and Jewish lobby interchangeably and his reference to their ‘power’ has crossed the line into well-known antisemitic tropes,' says Board of Deputies"
I am pleased to say that I opposed Farage's leadership of UKIP long before he had registered on most people's radars so you are saying nothing I disagree with here.
Are there really MPs who still don't get that triggering Article 50 was the end game for actually leaving? And that they're not the most important people in this negotiation?
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
Are there really MPs who still don't get that triggering Article 50 was the end game for actually leaving? And that they're not the most important people in this negotiation?
There are three possible outcomes:
- No Deal - An Article 50 deal and subsequent FTA negotiations - No Brexit
Are there really MPs who still don't get that triggering Article 50 was the end game for actually leaving? And that they're not the most important people in this negotiation?
There are three possible outcomes:
- No Deal - An Article 50 deal and subsequent FTA negotiations - No Brexit
MPs can control two of those outcomes.
The third is not an option that MPs can trigger. Article 50 has been served.
Are there really MPs who still don't get that triggering Article 50 was the end game for actually leaving? And that they're not the most important people in this negotiation?
There are three possible outcomes:
- No Deal - An Article 50 deal and subsequent FTA negotiations - No Brexit
MPs can control two of those outcomes.
The third is not an option that MPs can trigger. Article 50 has been served.
They won't have an overturning vote.
They can depose the Prime Minister at any moment and put someone in who will cancel Brexit. Parliament is sovereign, even if it doesn't feel like it.
Are there really MPs who still don't get that triggering Article 50 was the end game for actually leaving? And that they're not the most important people in this negotiation?
There are three possible outcomes:
- No Deal - An Article 50 deal and subsequent FTA negotiations - No Brexit
MPs can control two of those outcomes.
The extent of their control is that they can turn the second into the first.
Some people on here talk as if remaining in the EU is still an option. It isnt and we will leave the EU. The question is will we leave on the same terms as we were in the EU with the EU still controlling the UK like the mafiosi organisation that it is, (soft Brexit better known as phoney Brexit) or will what people actually voted for -a complete break with the Eu be implemented?
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
Are there really MPs who still don't get that triggering Article 50 was the end game for actually leaving? And that they're not the most important people in this negotiation?
There are three possible outcomes:
- No Deal - An Article 50 deal and subsequent FTA negotiations - No Brexit
MPs can control two of those outcomes.
The third is not an option that MPs can trigger. Article 50 has been served.
They won't have an overturning vote.
They can depose the Prime Minister at any moment and put someone in who will cancel Brexit. Parliament is sovereign, even if it doesn't feel like it.
You no doubt think there should be a military coup to further your extreme obsession with the EU if all else fails
Are there really MPs who still don't get that triggering Article 50 was the end game for actually leaving? And that they're not the most important people in this negotiation?
There are three possible outcomes:
- No Deal - An Article 50 deal and subsequent FTA negotiations - No Brexit
MPs can control two of those outcomes.
The extent of their control is that they can turn the second into the first.
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
So another climbdown by May is a triumph for May?
Colour me a little sceptical.
Negotiating a complex deal needs give and take and if we move on the Country will be relieved even it the ardent remainer's begin to panic even more than they are doing now
Its not been a good week for the reliability of anecdotes.
Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.
Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.
But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.
Bloody foreign raspberries coming over here and taking our punnets.
Even more incredibly some of the raspberries were claiming to be British.
Either the farmer has found some of those supposedly non-existent farmworkers or he's charging some hipsters for a raspberry picking experience.
Autumn Bliss are a great variety. Only stop cropping with the first frost. Good flavour too. 4 punnets for a quid means nobody is earning much from them though!
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
So another climbdown by May is a triumph for May?
Colour me a little sceptical.
Negotiating a complex deal needs give and take and if we move on the Country will be relieved even it the ardent remainer's begin to panic even more than they are doing now
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
So another climbdown by May is a triumph for May?
Colour me a little sceptical.
Negotiating a complex deal needs give and take and if we move on the Country will be relieved even it the ardent remainer's begin to panic even more than they are doing now
Seems to be mostly give and no take to me.
EU demands circa 100 billion - deal nearer 50 billion but then you do not want TM to achieve a deal as it would deliver a huge blow to comrades Corbyn and McDonnell
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
I agree this is the way things seem to be heading. But whether it closes the issues down and allows the government to regain control of events, or fuels the rebels and represents the first slide down the slippery slope, does remain to be seen.
Are there really MPs who still don't get that triggering Article 50 was the end game for actually leaving? And that they're not the most important people in this negotiation?
There are three possible outcomes:
- No Deal - An Article 50 deal and subsequent FTA negotiations - No Brexit
MPs can control two of those outcomes.
The third is not an option that MPs can trigger. Article 50 has been served.
They won't have an overturning vote.
They can depose the Prime Minister at any moment and put someone in who will cancel Brexit. Parliament is sovereign, even if it doesn't feel like it.
In theory, they can. In practice, there are not enough people who wish to cancel Brexit.
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
So another climbdown by May is a triumph for May?
Colour me a little sceptical.
Negotiating a complex deal needs give and take and if we move on the Country will be relieved even it the ardent remainer's begin to panic even more than they are doing now
Seems to be mostly give and no take to me.
Not even that. It's mainly vacous posturing punctured by occasional u turns.
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
I agree this is the way things seem to be heading. But whether it closes the issues down and allows the government to regain control of events, or fuels the rebels and represents the first slide down the slippery slope, does remain to be seen.
In EU terms nothing is agreed until everything is agreed
However, this could be a breakthrough that is needed by both sides.
Lots more negotiations to follow but I am content to pay 50 billion to keep a good working relationship with the EU
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
So another climbdown by May is a triumph for May?
Colour me a little sceptical.
Negotiating a complex deal needs give and take and if we move on the Country will be relieved even it the ardent remainer's begin to panic even more than they are doing now
Seems to be mostly give and no take to me.
EU demands circa 100 billion - deal nearer 50 billion but then you do not want TM to achieve a deal as it would deliver a huge blow to comrades Corbyn and McDonnell
The endpoint will be take it or leave it as far as the EU goes. TM will have a choice of No Dealvor of humble pie. This bit of backtracking looks like preparation for the second, a bit of preparation for the first may be wise.
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
I agree this is the way things seem to be heading. But whether it closes the issues down and allows the government to regain control of events, or fuels the rebels and represents the first slide down the slippery slope, does remain to be seen.
In EU terms nothing is agreed until everything is agreed
However, this could be a breakthrough that is needed by both sides.
Lots more negotiations to follow but I am content to pay 50 billion to keep a good working relationship with the EU
Very decent of you. Will you be paying by cheque or cash?
Its not been a good week for the reliability of anecdotes.
Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.
Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.
But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.
I've still got raspberries on my unprotected canes here in Edinburgh. I'm sure the Perth polytunnels are still producing.
My Autumn raspberries are still going strong, although ripening slower. Now picking every few days instead of twice a day.
Moves a foot to agree the divorce bill and drop the time limit on the Withdrawal Bill.
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
So another climbdown by May is a triumph for May?
Colour me a little sceptical.
Negotiating a complex deal needs give and take and if we move on the Country will be relieved even it the ardent remainer's begin to panic even more than they are doing now
Seems to be mostly give and no take to me.
Not even that. It's mainly vacous posturing punctured by occasional u turns.
The Netherlands must prepare for a chaotic, no-deal Brexit, the Dutch parliament’s European affairs committee has said, in a strongly worded report blaming the stalled exit talks on Britain’s “unrealistic expectations” and “inconsistency”.
Comments
This is what happens when Leave.EU ran with a Nazi era poster last year, people think the worst of you.
Once is unfortunate, twice looks like a pattern, especially if the front man of Leave.EU had been railing about the influence of Jews recently.
Jemima Lewis"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/16/sausage-rolls-sexist-surgeons-perpetual-state-offendedness/
most people wont have seen it and few of them will give a shit let alone connect it with the 1930s
that bus didnt even have to try did it ?
"In 5000BC, Britain had a population of maybe 6,000.
In 1500AD, England had a population of 2 million or so.
In 1801, England had a population of just under 8 million.
In 1901, England had a population of just over 30 million.
In 2001, England had a population of a touch under 50 million.
I don't see any reason why England is full at its present 55 million or so, any more than it was full at any of those previous dates."
All true. But a country is a home with a history and a culture and a way of doing things, a way of living, an approach to space and countryside. A country is not a boarding-house or a storage facility which needs to be filled to the very brim.
The fact that we may be able to cram more people in does not mean that we should without, at the very least, some sensible debate about whether we want to and what the implications of such a course of action are, and not just for a country's GDP.
See for instance @kyf_100's comment: "I think that AlastairMeeks quite sensibly suggested a few weeks ago that one thing we can do is switch away from building small sized semis with their tiny tufts of garden out front and back to medium density housing, four or five storeys high."
That is one sensible possibility to make more use of the space we have. But houses with gardens are a very British thing and very desirable for families. I have lived in one and in the sort of 5-storey apartment with no outside space, both as an adult and child, and the latter are not great for families. But in any case if we're going to make such a change to our urban environment then it should be our positive choice because we want to not because we're forced to because we have lost or given up control of who comes into the country.
They are either comics or sources of comment.
I would put the i above the Guardian, Telegraph and Times because only the former does not have a very clear and obvious agenda in left-right political terms (notwithstanding a clear position against Brexit). The Telegraph in particular is vastly overranked.
In fact I would put all of the broadcast media outlets (including Sky News) above all of the newspapers, with ITV News top of the lot.
I've said the bus didn't win it, Leave's focus on immigration and borders did.
When it was setup, it was a good idea to exploit repeats that couldn't be fit into the schedule of BBC, ITV, CH4, now with always on-demand there is absolutely no need for a set of repeats channel like Dave.
https://twitter.com/CorbynSuperFan/status/931241252657553408
https://twitter.com/tkbeynon/status/931242348222275584
Not going to happen, though. So I won't have to face that uncomfortable dilemma.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/931249762115956737
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tyndall
yekaterinburg is the town, sverdlovsk the oblast
Must have pressed the wrong knob. Seems to be a lot of it about....Sorry.
I suppose we all just roll over that DVLA has cut £107m in its income in an attempt to save £10 million ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42009111
big pay off for the CEO no doubt
The records confirm that ministers and civil servants in the Labour government were well aware that diesel pollution damages air quality (even if perhaps they did not appreciate the full extent). But officials preparing the 2000 Budget argued against higher tax for diesel cars "so we are not seen as being overly harsh on diesel users".
Advice from the Treasury's tax policy section presented to ministers stated: "Relative to petrol, diesel has lower emissions of CO2 but higher emissions of the particulates and pollutants which damage local air quality. A diesel supplement is necessary so that we do not create incentives for people to choose diesel vehicles over similar petrol models in order to attract a lower VED rate."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41985715
It was a military town, with extremely limited communications with the outside world and very restricted access. Site of the infamous Sverdlovsk incident, where anthrax was accidentally released from an undeclared, illegal biological weapons facility, killing some 100 people down wind.
It was also Yeltsin's home town, and was his back up capital if Moscow got too dangerous.
I suspect some 'consultants' were involved as well.
On another note, I see the BBC are bigging up my old college:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-41829685
But I was more interested in fighting racists than learning their creed. And I had no idea that Soros was Jewish. I am afraid it was the bigot TSE who seemed to think that was a matter of interest.
Mind you given his admiration for Cameron and Osborne and their use of this apparent anti-Semitic meme in 2015 I am not surprised he is steeped in anti-Semitism himself.
Firstly we had 'all the European NHS and agricultural workers are leaving' demolished by imigrant employment at an all time high.
Then we had the 'the shops are empty, its a High Street disater' dismantled by an increase in retail sales.
But in the spirit of anecdotal bollox I'll add my own, namely that I was able to buy four punnets of raspberries today for only a pound. Where are all these cheap raspberries coming from in the middle of November ? I don't remember them being available this cheap or this late ever before.
http://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/interview/oliver-morley-how-unlock-car-future-and-impact-pay-restraint-dvla
We were pleasantly surprised to find that his early life there is well marked and the town makes something of the fact he was born there. We were rather more surprised to find his grave in the local graveyard. Mostly because he is in fact buried in Haslemere in Surrey.
I suspect many of the non-taxed cars are also lacking insurance and MOT certificates.
Either the farmer has found some of those supposedly non-existent farmworkers or he's charging some hipsters for a raspberry picking experience.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/931249762115956737
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/931260385411379200
"Nigel Farage: 'Jewish lobby' has disproportionate power in the US
'Farage’s clumsy use of the terms Israel and Jewish lobby interchangeably and his reference to their ‘power’ has crossed the line into well-known antisemitic tropes,' says Board of Deputies"
http://tinyurl.com/ydy3xjzh
So the price varies markedly and rapidly depending on whether the fruit is in season.
And which means you get a free plastic bag with your purchase but that you have to eat them quicker than the supermarket produce.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/651932/Oct_Transparency_over__10k_FINAL.csv/preview
The irony is even greater as for much of that year I was working for the government...
If, and it is if, TM agrees the money in principal and we go on to trade talks by December the narrative must change and it will make it harder for remain to cut through.
TM may have a problem with some hard Brexiteer's but they are outnumbered in the party and the HOC. Furthermore, the Country is likely to sigh a sigh of relief
- No Deal
- An Article 50 deal and subsequent FTA negotiations
- No Brexit
MPs can control two of those outcomes.
They won't have an overturning vote.
At this rate 92-97 will look like the last golden age of Conservative government.
Colour me a little sceptical.
However, this could be a breakthrough that is needed by both sides.
Lots more negotiations to follow but I am content to pay 50 billion to keep a good working relationship with the EU
Three years membership better value than money down toilet.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/16/brexit-netherlands-told-to-prepare-for-a-no-deal-chaos-scenario?CMP=share_btn_tw