That should please those who voted to Leave because they felt left behind and abandoned by the global elite.
It is not German bankers workers in Dagenham and Burnley and Hartlepool and Wolverhampton were competing with but Eastern Europeans willing to work for low wages and do long hours.
Most Leave voters will therefore be fine with that as they are still getting the controls on low-skilled workers they voted for.
It truly is spooky how you know why people voted leave, what they are now thinking, and what kind of deal we will get.
And yet still you refuse to tell me who will win the Triumph Hurdle next year.
People voted Leave
1 'To ensure that decisions taken about the UK should be taken in the UK.' 2 'Voting to Leave offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.' 3 'Remaining meant little or no choice about how the EU expanded its membership or powers.' http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
The first two are - of course - completely correct. But the UK government always had an absolute veto over the entry of any new member. Indeed, the way the EU is constituted, it's the one thing that cannot be "power grabbed" by Brussels.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
That should please those who voted to Leave because they felt left behind and abandoned by the global elite.
It is not German bankers workers in Dagenham and Burnley and Hartlepool and Wolverhampton were competing with but Eastern Europeans willing to work for low wages and do long hours.
Most Leave voters will therefore be fine with that as they are still getting the controls on low-skilled workers they voted for.
It truly is spooky how you know why people voted leave, what they are now thinking, and what kind of deal we will get.
And yet still you refuse to tell me who will win the Triumph Hurdle next year.
People voted Leave
1 'To ensure that decisions taken about the UK should be taken in the UK.' 2 'Voting to Leave offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.' 3 'Remaining meant little or no choice about how the EU expanded its membership or powers.' http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
The first two are - of course - completely correct. But the UK government always had an absolute veto over the entry of any new member. Indeed, the way the EU is constituted, it's the one thing that cannot be "power grabbed" by Brussels.
Perhaps but it is 1 and 2 which have obviously been key for the government in determining how Brexit will look.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
Unless you are seriously ripped, you should never wear shirt sleeved shirts.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
I still wear them at 56. And its not like my kids cut me any slack about my rather excellent cricket hat...
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
My recollection is that public polling generally suggests the public are in favour of quite harsh rules when it comes to benefits, harsher than the government proposes? If that is the case I don't see how it particularly adds to the Tories image as the nasty party except from those who already have that view. Poor implementation of course will lead to criticism, but problems with implementation do not make a policy nasty in itself, particularly when almost all big policies will have problems, or some people will fail to be helped by it, and even some hurt by it.
O'Mara and Coad are clear examples of where local MPs are probably arseholes, in their own way, but as long as they keep their heads down nobody is going to care 5 minutes from now. A new arsehole, Labour or Tory, will emerge soon enough and we all get our fun with that and then move on, the parties don't really get effected (No matter how many times the usual crowd go 'See, O'mara is proof labour is full of sexist pigs', 'allegations about tory minister x's misconduct is proof the tories are all sleazy')
I'm generally sceptical though of the view specific policies or views 'reinforce' public attitudes. I think there's too many factors that go into which parties we back, and a lot of it is about background and who we think we are 'supposed' to vote for, and we justify liking or disliking a policy based on who proposes it. I'm even more confident in stating people will claim to back/reject a policy and then change their tune depending on who proposes it. We've seen it happen both ways. Even if UC were a policy without fault some people would still say the Tories are nasty and hate the poor, and Labour could increase military funding four times over and some people would say they were the unpatriotic ones.
It's mostly just tribalism, with specific policy figleafs, at least for the people who set the narratives on both sides.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Tom Tugendhat is an ex soldier, that's something that gets Tory members gushing and helps overlook any other flaws.
He's made a big mistake today. Another one in the huff about lack of promotion?
He may have just been voting for what he believed was best for the country of course.
That'd definitely a bad sign for anyone wanting to advance - as even Corbyn is learning, being leader is all about compromising on some views you hold because it is best overall for the country for you to take over and do some of what you believe best at least, even at the price of doing some things you think less than best.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
It's mid November. Primrose Hill heatwave, or are you looking at holiday snaps?
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
I think it's probably true - but slightly sad - that anti-tory voters generally don't care about these things.
As I said at the time the Jared o'mara comments / behaviour was exposed, the thing I would have really appreciated from him would have been for him to demonstrate some understanding of why he made the comments - and did the things he did.
Conscious, public recognition of the bullied/bully dynamic. To me, that indicates someone who has grown up and put their past mistakes behind them - and is unlikely to be a prick in public - or private - again. I think this is particularly important for a politician on the liberal left.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
One doesn't have to to think that, by and large, voters won't care if she is punished or not. Heck, I've already forgotten the name of the Tory MP who said the n-word and I missed it happening in the first place. Fewer will agree with her than Coad, thank goodness, but once its out and 'apologies' are made, not many will care, and fewer still alter their stance on an entire party due to it.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
"There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore." The same is even more applicable for men - is there anything worse than a middle-aged male pony-tail?
PS Short-sleeve shirts are fine at any age - but not in November!
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
My recollection is that public polling generally suggests the public are in favour of quite harsh rules when it comes to benefits, harsher than the government proposes? If that is the case I don't see how it particularly adds to the Tories image as the nasty party except from those who already have that view. Poor implementation of course will lead to criticism, but problems with implementation do not make a policy nasty in itself, particularly when almost all big policies will have problems, or some people will fail to be helped by it, and even some hurt by it.
O'Mara and Coad are clear examples of where local MPs are probably arseholes, in their own way, but as long as they keep their heads down nobody is going to care 5 minutes from now. A new arsehole, Labour or Tory, will emerge soon enough and we all get our fun with that and then move on, the parties don't really get effected (No matter how many times the usual crowd go 'See, O'mara is proof labour is full of sexist pigs', 'allegations about tory minister x's misconduct is proof the tories are all sleazy')
I'm generally sceptical though of the view specific policies or views 'reinforce' public attitudes. I think there's too many factors that go into which parties we back, and a lot of it is about background and who we think we are 'supposed' to vote for, and we justify liking or disliking a policy based on who proposes it. I'm even more confident in stating people will claim to back/reject a policy and then change their tune depending on who proposes it. We've seen it happen both ways. Even if UC were a policy without fault some people would still say the Tories are nasty and hate the poor, and Labour could increase military funding four times over and some people would say they were the unpatriotic ones.
It's mostly just tribalism, with specific policy figleafs, at least for the people who set the narratives on both sides.
I was referring to it reinforcing their image as the nasty party less in relation to the public as a whole and more to Corbyn’s coalition of voters. Thus my reference to it keeping his coalition of voters together. On the public in general, the recent Social Attitudes Survey did show a significant shift away from the ‘be harsh on benefit claimants’ view. It’s not just the UC implementation which is the issue - the policy of making people wait 6 weeks as noted earlier in the thread, and which prompted my comment is a big reason why many have an issue with the UC.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
Red shoes, radiohead t-shirts and medallions are the biggest no noes currently, I'm told.
Possible coup underway in Zimbabwe, according to BBC Newsnight.
Quiet evening then.
On the first, I find the extent to which american politicians can so openly oppose people purportedly in the same party quite striking. I know railing against the Establishment is a big thing, but sometimes they really do seem barely keeping it together.
On the second, it was incredible to read the army chief earlier in the week.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
Fuck off. The reason we are having such pain leaving the EU is because the legal articles that prescribe departure are enshrined, for the first time, in the Lisbon Treaty, in A50. Indeed the infamous Article 50, which defines departure, was written by a British civil servant, who self-confessedly wrote the article in such a way that "departure would be so painful, no country would ever quit".
In other words, when we signed up to Lisbon, we agreed to be voluntarily shackled by leg chains so enormous the breaking of them might shatter our limbs, even as we were apparently free and "emancipated".
Did we get a vote on this enormous handover of sovereignty? Nope.
No. No. No. No we didn't. Even worse, EVEN WORSE, the reason we never got a vote on it was because the Lisbon Treaty was originally the EU Constitution (hence Article 50 on how to leave it). But this was rejected by TWO founder member countries of the EU, France and Holland, so the EU then decided to subvert and ignore and reject vile democracy by simply renaming the Constitution a Treaty, and then ramming it through the parliaments of member states, and avoiding the EXPRESSED will of the people, in France and Holland, and the implicit will of the people, in the UK.
It was grotesque to a point beyond satire. The EU Constitution made Zimbabwean elections look sound and proper.
Let us NEVER EVER forget this. The EU might be a nice affluent economic trading bloc, but it is a total democratic fraud, a gigantic piece of mendacious shit, enacted directly against the voters it purports to represent. It is a turd of a project. It is repulsive and at its heart there is a fat beating lie. It is a maggot of a thing, however large. And no one votes for its fucking so called parliament.
THAT is why we left. We are Englishmen. We are the inheritors of Alfred, Cromwell, the Levellers, Shakespeare and Churchill. We can do better than this shit. We are better than this shit. We are better than this odious fake democracy, we ARE a democracy.
And THAT is why we left. And why we were RIGHT to leave, whatever the pain.
Always sovereign. Just didn't seem like it. Moreso (less so) I imagine if you were off your face most of the time.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
My recollection is that public polling generally suggests the public are in favour of quite harsh rules when it comes to benefits, harsher than the government proposes? If that is the case I don't see how it particularly adds to the Tories image as the nasty party except from those who already have that view. Poor implementation of course will lead to criticism, but problems with implementation do not make a policy nasty in itself, particularly when almost all big policies will have problems, or some people will fail to be helped by it, and even some hurt by it.
O'Mara and Coad are clear examples of where local MPs are probably arseholes, in their own way, but as long as they keep their heads down nobody is going to care 5 minutes from now. A new arsehole, Labour or Tory, will emerge soon enough and we all get our fun with that and then move on, the parties don't really get effected (No matter how many times the usual crowd go 'See, O'mara is proof labour is full of sexist pigs', 'allegations about tory minister x's misconduct is proof the tories are all sleazy')
I'm generally sceptical though of the view specific policies or views 'reinforce' public attitudes. I think there's too many factors that go into which parties we back, and a lot of it is about background and who we think weir tune depending on who proposes it. We've seen it happen both ways. Even if UC were a policy without fault some people would still say the Tories are nasty and hate the poor, and Labour could increase military funding four times over and some people would say they were the unpatriotic ones.
It's mostly just tribalism, with specific policy figleafs, at least for the people who set the narratives on both sides.
I was referring to it reinforcing their image as the nasty party less in relation to the public as a whole and more to Corbyn’s coalition of voters. Thus my reference to it keeping his coalition of voters together. On the public in general, the recent Social Attitudes Survey did show a significant shift away from the ‘be harsh on benefit claimants’ view. It’s not just the UC implementation which is the issue - the policy of making people wait 6 weeks as noted earlier in the thread, and which prompted my comment is a big reason why many have an issue with the UC.
On that specific point, it does seem to have had some cut through. Interesting to hear about the social attitudes survey shift.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
Red shoes, radiohead t-shirts and medallions are the biggest no noes currently, I'm told.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
Problematic is not a condemnation. You may not like Guido but he has unearthed things that are just completely out of order. If you do not believe me check his site
Tom Tugendhat is an ex soldier, that's something that gets Tory members gushing and helps overlook any other flaws.
He's made a big mistake today. Another one in the huff about lack of promotion?
He may have just been voting for what he believed was best for the country of course.
He just can't be that naïve. Not if he wants to get anywhere in politics anyway.
I am sure he knew he'd be unpopular in some quarters... but maybe we have passed the 'inauthenticity' nadir - the future could be politicians who actually believe in something!
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
Red shoes, radiohead t-shirts and medallions are the biggest no noes currently, I'm told.
Agreed: Radiohead T-Shirts are worn by people who don't really like Radiohead, but want people to believe they like Radiohead.
Poor bastards.
They need to spend more time listening to fantastic tracks like... ooohhh... this one:
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
Do Crockett & Jones do a line in grey slip-ons with velcro fastening?
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
Problematic is not a condemnation. You may not like Guido but he has unearthed things that are just completely out of order. If you do not believe me check his site
Among my age group online problematic is basically a condemnation. But it’s PB and the audience is older so next time I won’t use that word again in order to avoid confusion.
Fuck off. The reason we are having such pain leaving the EU is because the legal articles that prescribe departure are enshrined, for the first time, in the Lisbon Treaty, in A50. Indeed the infamous Article 50, which defines departure, was written by a British civil servant, who self-confessedly wrote the article in such a way that "departure would be so painful, no country would ever quit".
In other words, when we signed up to Lisbon, we agreed to be voluntarily shackled by leg chains so enormous the breaking of them might shatter our limbs, even as we were apparently free and "emancipated".
Did we get a vote on this enormous handover of sovereignty? Nope.
No. No. No. No we didn't. Even worse, EVEN WORSE, the reason we never got a vote on it was because the Lisbon Treaty was originally the EU Constitution (hence Article 50 on how to leave it). But this was rejected by TWO founder member countries of the EU, France and Holland, so the EU then decided to subvert and ignore and reject vile democracy by simply renaming the Constitution a Treaty, and then ramming it through the parliaments of member states, and avoiding the EXPRESSED will of the people, in France and Holland, and the implicit will of the people, in the UK.
It was grotesque to a point beyond satire. The EU Constitution made Zimbabwean elections look sound and proper.
Let us NEVER EVER forget this. The EU might be a nice affluent economic trading bloc, but it is a total democratic fraud, a gigantic piece of mendacious shit, enacted directly against the voters it purports to represent. It is a turd of a project. It is repulsive and at its heart there is a fat beating lie. It is a maggot of a thing, however large. And no one votes for its fucking so called parliament.
THAT is why we left. We are Englishmen. We are the inheritors of Alfred, Cromwell, the Levellers, Shakespeare and Churchill. We can do better than this shit. We are better than this shit. We are better than this odious fake democracy, we ARE a democracy.
And THAT is why we left. And why we were RIGHT to leave, whatever the pain.
Always sovereign. Just didn't seem like it. Moreso (less so) I imagine if you were off your face most of the time.
Brexiters coming out with choice phrases like 'whatever the pain' pretty much sums up where they, and we, are right now.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
Problematic is not a condemnation. You may not like Guido but he has unearthed things that are just completely out of order. If you do not believe me check his site
I'm not one to jump to the defence of others if they can defend themselves, and I've had more than a few disputes with Theapocalypse based on mutual misunderstanding, but she did say that significant numbers might agree or be indifferent to Coad is an alarming thought, which is pretty clearly condemnatory I would have thought, else people not caring or agreeing would not be alarming.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
Problematic is not a condemnation. You may not like Guido but he has unearthed things that are just completely out of order. If you do not believe me check his site
You do realise his site is totally right-wing biased? You're never going to see the full picture, only dirt that supports his (rather extreme) right-wing political views.
1. Women should not wear patent shoes during day-time. And never ever with thick opaque tights.
2. Those ballet flat shoes look ridiculous, especially in winter under heavy coats, as if people have gone out in their slippers.
3. Why oh why do people wear black coats in winter? Dull, unflattering and gloomy. Colour is glorious and people should not be afraid to use it.
Good question. If you look at photos of people in the late 80s/early 90s, a lot of them are wearing colourful coats in winter. Now it's mostly black or grey.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
A well cut suit is essential, especially as one gets older.
Fuck off. The reason we are having such pain leaving the EU is because the legal articles that prescribe departure are enshrined, for the first time, in the Lisbon Treaty, in A50. Indeed the infamous Article 50, which defines departure, was written by a British civil servant, who self-confessedly wrote the article in such a way that "departure would be so painful, no country would ever quit".
In other words, when we signed up to Lisbon, we agreed to be voluntarily shackled by leg chains so enormous the breaking of them might shatter our limbs, even as we were apparently free and "emancipated".
Did we get a vote on this enormous handover of sovereignty? Nope.
No. No. No. No we didn't. Even worse, EVEN WORSE, the reason we never got a vote on it was because the Lismaggot of a thing, however large. And no one votes for its fucking so called parliament.
THAT is why we left. We are Englishmen. We are the inheritors of Alfred, Cromwell, the Levellers, Shakespeare and Churchill. We can do better than this shit. We are better than this shit. We are better than this odious fake democracy, we ARE a democracy.
And THAT is why we left. And why we were RIGHT to leave, whatever the pain.
Always sovereign. Just didn't seem like it. Moreso (less so) I imagine if you were off your face most of the time.
Brexiters coming out with choice phrases like 'whatever the pain' pretty much sums up where they, and we, are right now.
Worth noting SeanT is someone who is unhappy about the level of pain as stated earlier this evening, and was open to a far less hard Brexit right from the start - this rather illustrates my point about it not even being Hard brexiters being most effective at persuading people not to give in to too much Bregret.
Fuck off. The reason we are having such pain leaving the EU is because the legal articleervant, onfessedly wrote the article in such a way that "departure would be so painful, no country would ever quit".
In other words, when we signed up to Lisbon, we agreed to be voluntarily shackled by leg chains so enormous the breaking of them might shatter our limbs, even as we were apparently free and "emancipated".
Did we get a vote on this enormous handover of sovereignty? Nope.
No. No. No. No we didn't. Even worse, EVEN WORSE, the reason we never got a vote on it was because the Lisbon Treaty was originally the EU Constitution (hence Article 50 on how to leave it). But this was rejected by TWO founder member countries of the EU, France and Holland, so the EU then decided to subvert and ignore and reject vile democracy by simply renaming the Constitution a Treaty, and then ramming it through the parliaments of member states, and avoiding the EXPRESSED will of the people, in France and Holland, and the implicit will of the people, in the UK.
It was grotesque to a point beyond satire. The EU Constitution made Zimbabwean elections look sound and proper.
Let us NEVER EVER forget this. The EU might be a nice affluent economic trading bloc, but it is a total democratic fraud, a gigantic piece of mendacious shit, enacted directly against the voters it purports to represent. It is a turd of a project. It is repulsive and at its heart there is a fat beating lie. It is a maggot of a thing, however large. And no one votes for its fucking so called parliament.
THAT is why we left. We are Englishmen. We are the inheritors of Alfred, Cromwell, the Levellers, Shakespeare and Churchill. We can do better than this shit. We are better than this shit. We are better than this odious fake democracy, we ARE a democracy.
And THAT is why we left. And why we were RIGHT to leave, whatever the pain.
Always sovereign. Just didn't seem like it. Moreso (less so) I imagine if you were off your face most of the time.
Brexiters coming out with choice phrases like 'whatever the pain' pretty much sums up where they, and we, are right now.
They have voted harm on their country but, displaying their economic mastery, will tell you that it's fine because in the long run all will be well.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
Problematic is not a condemnation. You may not like Guido but he has unearthed things that are just completely out of order. If you do not believe me check his site
Among my age group online problematic is basically a condemnation. But it’s PB and the audience is older so next time I won’t use that word again in order to avoid confusion.
Fair play - it is just the catalogue on Guido about her attitudes are not acceptable today, and I am no snowflake
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
Do Crockett & Jones do a line in grey slip-ons with velcro fastening?
My Dad has been wearing exactly those shoes since his early 50s. He's now on his fourth wife, aged 43, and he's 82. So you CAN get away with it, kinda.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
Problematic is not a condemnation. You may not like Guido but he has unearthed things that are just completely out of order. If you do not believe me check his site
I'm not one to jump to the defence of others if they can defend themselves, and I've had more than a few disputes with Theapocalypse based on mutual misunderstanding, but she did say that significant numbers might agree or be indifferent to Coad is an alarming thought, which is pretty clearly condemnatory I would have thought, else people not caring or agreeing would not be alarming.
You’ve defended me a number of times recently, so thanks for that!
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
A well cut suit is essential, especially as one gets older.
I do spend some money on my suits. It makes some of my clients think they are getting value for money.
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
Problematic is not a condemnation. You may not like Guido but he has unearthed things that are just completely out of order. If you do not believe me check his site
I'm not one to jump to the defence of others if they can defend themselves, and I've had more than a few disputes with Theapocalypse based on mutual misunderstanding, but she did say that significant numbers might agree or be indifferent to Coad is an alarming thought, which is pretty clearly condemnatory I would have thought, else people not caring or agreeing would not be alarming.
You’ve defended me a number of times recently, so thanks for that!
Well I've also insulted you a few times, so there's a karmic balance to be struck!
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
Problematic is not a condemnation. You may not like Guido but he has unearthed things that are just completely out of order. If you do not believe me check his site
You do realise his site is totally right-wing biased? You're never going to see the full picture, only dirt that supports his (rather extreme) right-wing political views.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
Do Crockett & Jones do a line in grey slip-ons with velcro fastening?
My Dad has been wearing exactly those shoes since his early 50s. He's now on his fourth wife, aged 43, and he's 82. So you CAN get away with it, kinda.
So, your dad's wife is a decade younger than you...
Yes, good it was a clear turnout. Close to the Irish result in the end where 62% voted Yes, despite some late jitters from Yes supporters. Only Italy therefore of western nations will not have gay marriage if Australia's Parliament follows through on this referendum.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
A well cut suit is essential, especially as one gets older.
I do spend some money on my suits. It makes some of my clients think they are getting value for money.
Not one for spending much on clothes generally, but I did pick up a few pretty decent (for my spending level) suits a year ago, and I must say people really do seem to pick up on a certain level of smartness. Worth going beyond the most basic, I reckon.
It's weird, as many have noted, what we are happy to pay a lot for and what we are not can be highly variable, with little consistency. For some reason I cannot abide spending a lot for a car for instance.
I've just realised (belatedly, at 54) that I am too old to wear short sleeved summer shirts. At least in any dignified way
Eeeek. Painful.
Have any other PB-ers encountered similar?
I think women must go through the same ugly epiphany, perhaps more fiercely, with regards to short skirts and long hair. There's an age when a woman just can't wear hair long, anymore.
No adult man should ever wear short-sleeved shirts. Not unless he wants to look like an airline steward.
Any other sartorial no no's before I clean out my wardrobe?
No thin ties.
I am wearing a shortsleeve shirt and thin knitted tie. I always wear short sleeves because of my job. The thin tie is my choice.
On the other hand I never wear black (apart from black tie). Charcoal and Navy blue wear a lot better.
However hard they try, I am not yet convinced that the Brexiteer line "Remainers are to blame for Brexit being rubbish" is actually going to work.
Gold star for effort though
"Remainers are to blame for Brexit" works for me. Do you blame Iceland or England for England losing to Iceland last year?
And we are, as some politician once observed, all in this together. If you think Remainers will get time off Brexit for good behaviour you are in for a rude surprise.
There's a thread in there comparing Theresa May to Roy Hodgson.
Why? What's he done to upset you so much?
I'm a Liverpool fan, Roy Hodgson was the worst Liverpool manager in my lifetime.
A bit like Theresa May being the wost Tory leader of my lifetime.
Yes, good it was a clear turnout. Close to the Irish result in the end where 62% voted Yes, despite some late jitters from Yes supporters. Only Italy therefore of western nations will not have gay marriage if Australia's Parliament follows through on this referendum.
Yes, good it was a clear turnout. Close to the Irish result in the end where 62% voted Yes, despite some late jitters from Yes supporters. Only Italy therefore of western nations will not have gay marriage if Australia's Parliament follows through on this referendum.
Fuck off. ud, a gigantic piece of mendacious shit, enacted directly against the voters it purports to represent. It is a turd of a project. It is repulsive and at its heart there is a fat beating lie. It is a maggot of a thing, however large. And no one votes for its fucking so called parliament.
THAT is why we left. We are Englishmen. We are the inheritors of Alfred, Cromwell, the Levellers, Shakespeare and Churchill. We can do better than this shit. We are better than this shit. We are better than this odious fake democracy, we ARE a democracy.
And THAT is why we left. And why we were RIGHT to leave, whatever the pain.
Always sovereign. Just didn't seem like it. Moreso (less so) I imagine if you were off your face most of the time.
Always sovereign. Yup. Thats why the writer of Article 50 made it so painful and biassed it was designed never to be used, like an exit door that actually doesn't open without chopping your head off.
"Lord Kerr says he never envisaged the UK would make use of Article 50: "I thought the circumstances in which it would be used, if ever, would be when there was a coup in a member state and the EU suspended that country's membership.""
The Conservative’s UC policy reinforces the image of them as the ‘nasty party’ which certainly helps Corbyn keep together his coalition, in spite of Emma Dent Coad’s comments and other scandals. Then there’s also the fact that many voters may not simply care about Coad’s and O’Mara’s comments to begin with. If not many cared about the ‘woodpile’ comments then it would figure.
It is incumbent on us all to call out the odious Coad and she needs to be thrown out of labour.
I think the public needs to care about bad behaviour from MPs more generally, and that includes Coad. But I think many of these problematic comments don’t register with large numbers of voters. Most likely because a significant number of voters are either indifferent or in fact agree with said problematic statements. Which is an alarming thought.
Coad's were no problematic comments nor actions - you should not attempt to excuse her
Huh? Don’t see how calling her comments problematic is excusing her. It’s a criticism of her comments.
Problematic is not a condemnation. You may not like Guido but he has unearthed things that are just completely out of order. If you do not believe me check his site
I'm not one to jump to the defence of others if they can defend themselves, and I've had more than a few disputes with Theapocalypse based on mutual misunderstanding, but she did say that significant numbers might agree or be indifferent to Coad is an alarming thought, which is pretty clearly condemnatory I would have thought, else people not caring or agreeing would not be alarming.
You’ve defended me a number of times recently, so thanks for that!
Fuck off. ud, a gigantic piece of mendacious shit, enacted directly against the voters it purports to represent. It is a turd of a project. It is repulsive and at its heart there is a fat beating lie. It is a maggot of a thing, however large. And no one votes for its fucking so called parliament.
THAT is why we left. We are Englishmen. We are the inheritors of Alfred, Cromwell, the Levellers, Shakespeare and Churchill. We can do better than this shit. We are better than this shit. We are better than this odious fake democracy, we ARE a democracy.
And THAT is why we left. And why we were RIGHT to leave, whatever the pain.
Always sovereign. Just didn't seem like it. Moreso (less so) I imagine if you were off your face most of the time.
Always sovereign. Yup. Thats why the writer of Article 50 made it so painful and biassed it was designed never to be used, like an exit door that actually doesn't open without chopping your head off.
"Lord Kerr says he never envisaged the UK would make use of Article 50: "I thought the circumstances in which it would be used, if ever, would be when there was a coup in a member state and the EU suspended that country's membership.""
Yes, good it was a clear turnout. Close to the Irish result in the end where 62% voted Yes, despite some late jitters from Yes supporters. Only Italy therefore of western nations will not have gay marriage if Australia's Parliament follows through on this referendum.
Yes, good it was a clear turnout. Close to the Irish result in the end where 62% voted Yes, despite some late jitters from Yes supporters. Only Italy therefore of western nations will not have gay marriage if Australia's Parliament follows through on this referendum.
Comments
Think of it like Churchill railing against appeasement.
O'Mara and Coad are clear examples of where local MPs are probably arseholes, in their own way, but as long as they keep their heads down nobody is going to care 5 minutes from now. A new arsehole, Labour or Tory, will emerge soon enough and we all get our fun with that and then move on, the parties don't really get effected (No matter how many times the usual crowd go 'See, O'mara is proof labour is full of sexist pigs', 'allegations about tory minister x's misconduct is proof the tories are all sleazy')
I'm generally sceptical though of the view specific policies or views 'reinforce' public attitudes. I think there's too many factors that go into which parties we back, and a lot of it is about background and who we think we are 'supposed' to vote for, and we justify liking or disliking a policy based on who proposes it. I'm even more confident in stating people will claim to back/reject a policy and then change their tune depending on who proposes it. We've seen it happen both ways. Even if UC were a policy without fault some people would still say the Tories are nasty and hate the poor, and Labour could increase military funding four times over and some people would say they were the unpatriotic ones.
It's mostly just tribalism, with specific policy figleafs, at least for the people who set the narratives on both sides.
As I said at the time the Jared o'mara comments / behaviour was exposed, the thing I would have really appreciated from him would have been for him to demonstrate some understanding of why he made the comments - and did the things he did.
Conscious, public recognition of the bullied/bully dynamic. To me, that indicates someone who has grown up and put their past mistakes behind them - and is unlikely to be a prick in public - or private - again. I think this is particularly important for a politician on the liberal left.
In O'mara's case, I'm not convinced.
PS Short-sleeve shirts are fine at any age - but not in November!
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2017/nov/15/australias-same-sex-marriage-postal-survey-results-live
On the first, I find the extent to which american politicians can so openly oppose people purportedly in the same party quite striking. I know railing against the Establishment is a big thing, but sometimes they really do seem barely keeping it together.
On the second, it was incredible to read the army chief earlier in the week.
https://twitter.com/NickyMorgan01/status/930567418786799616
Or those ridiculous extreme cutaway collars.
2. Those ballet flat shoes look ridiculous, especially in winter under heavy coats, as if people have gone out in their slippers.
3. Why oh why do people wear black coats in winter? Dull, unflattering and gloomy. Colour is glorious and people should not be afraid to use it.
I am not happy with her over this and am becoming concerned
Poor bastards.
They need to spend more time listening to fantastic tracks like... ooohhh... this one:
https://vimeo.com/170415909
Granted, with the black hat, when I wear gloves it does kind of make me look like I am cosplaying as that sidekick Nazi from Raiders of the Lost Ark.
79% turnout
Yes 7 817 247 61.6%
No 4 873 987 38.4%
Australia therefore votes for gay marriage
I wouldn’t be surprised if that article made a reference to cultural Marxism.
Almost identical result to Ireland.
Turnout even higher.
Yes, good it was a clear turnout. Close to the Irish result in the end where 62% voted Yes, despite some late jitters from Yes supporters. Only Italy therefore of western nations will not have gay marriage if Australia's Parliament follows through on this referendum.
It's weird, as many have noted, what we are happy to pay a lot for and what we are not can be highly variable, with little consistency. For some reason I cannot abide spending a lot for a car for instance.
On the other hand I never wear black (apart from black tie). Charcoal and Navy blue wear a lot better.
RESULT!
Edit Damn you, Rob.
On the main vote on Clause 1, only 9 abstained.
Haven't been right down the list but, eg, Heidi Allen voted with the Govt.
People who haven't heard them
and
People who don't really like music
Which are you?
The outback is just there for films.
Pretentious asshats
and
Centrist dads
Which are you?