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    The more I think about it the more I realise than June 23rd wasn’t just a defeat for Remain it was also an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory party.

    That wing of the Tory Party has been hollowed out regretfully.
  • Options
    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    Leadsom's march on parliament. Theresa Villiers literally clutching her pearls ...

    And they are all barking....

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/750979473277943808

    Who's the man on camera left leading the chant?
    Tim Loughton.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The more I think about it the more I realise than June 23rd wasn’t just a defeat for Remain it was also an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory party.

    That wing of the Tory Party has been hollowed out regretfully.

    The electable wing as it is also known
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,992
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_P said:

    Potential foreign diplomatic crisis brewing. Lucky we have such a top team...

    The potential for a very serious situation involving Saudi, Israel, Iran and the rest of the middle east is there for all to see
    Pray God we stay out! And I mean truly neutral.
    Personally I would favour Israel but an Israel/Saudi tag team would be very hard to support. I think we would though.
    Hope not. I, too, would back Israel....but, Israel and Saudi v Iran does not bear thinking about.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,028
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_P said:

    Potential foreign diplomatic crisis brewing. Lucky we have such a top team...

    The potential for a very serious situation involving Saudi, Israel, Iran and the rest of the middle east is there for all to see
    Pray God we stay out! And I mean truly neutral.
    Agree, but which God?
    Sadly, Israel Saudi and Iran as well as us all claim to follow the same one.
    Is Allah the same as Jehovah?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892

    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    Leadsom's march on parliament. Theresa Villiers literally clutching her pearls ...

    And they are all barking....

    https://twitter.com/jimwaterson/status/750979473277943808

    Who's the man on camera left leading the chant?
    Tim Loughton.
    Thanks. I thought it might be Alan Duncan committing political hara-kiri
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    The more I think about it the more I realise than June 23rd wasn’t just a defeat for Remain it was also an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory party.

    That wing of the Tory Party has been hollowed out regretfully.

    Along with the chances of a Tory majority
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578

    The more I think about it the more I realise than June 23rd wasn’t just a defeat for Remain it was also an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory party.

    That wing of the Tory Party has been hollowed out regretfully.

    As has the moderate wing of the Labour Party, a process greatly assisted by the result of the general election. One of the many unintended consequences of Cameron and May's calamitous errors of electoral judgment has been the move of both parties away from the political centre and towards the extremes.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,992
    edited November 2017

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_P said:

    Potential foreign diplomatic crisis brewing. Lucky we have such a top team...

    The potential for a very serious situation involving Saudi, Israel, Iran and the rest of the middle east is there for all to see
    Pray God we stay out! And I mean truly neutral.
    Agree, but which God?
    Sadly, Israel Saudi and Iran as well as us all claim to follow the same one.
    Is Allah the same as Jehovah?
    Deleted.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,383

    The more I think about it the more I realise than June 23rd wasn’t just a defeat for Remain it was also an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory party.

    That wing of the Tory Party has been hollowed out regretfully.

    As has the moderate wing of the Labour Party, a process greatly assisted by the result of the general election. One of the many unintended consequences of Cameron and May's calamitous errors of electoral judgment has been the move of both parties away from the political centre and towards the extremes.
    With the added cruel irony that a new centrist party would, given our FPTP system, have absolutely sod all chance of doing anything.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    You object to both their behaviour and their impact on local resources?
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    The more I think about it the more I realise than June 23rd wasn’t just a defeat for Remain it was also an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory party.

    That wing of the Tory Party has been hollowed out regretfully.

    As has the moderate wing of the Labour Party, a process greatly assisted by the result of the general election. One of the many unintended consequences of Cameron and May's calamitous errors of electoral judgment has been the move of both parties away from the political centre and towards the extremes.
    Acting on an manifesto promise isn't an error of judgement.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    welshowl said:

    If, as and when Boris is forced out (which I feel is probably inevitable now), who is the most likely replacement?

    Needs to be solid, reliable, good at detail, decent instincts and able to get to grips with things the minute they walk through the door.

    Not many of them round the table at the moment.

    William Hague your time has come.....
    I thought about that the other day - would it work having a Foreign Secretary in the Lords? Didn't work out that well for Lord Carrington back in the day. Hague would knock some heads together - that is for sure.
    Only because of events. In terms of doing the job, it worked well enough - though a ForSec in the Lords really needs a cabinet-level No 2 in the Commons to be able to answer there.
    Hague has been very clear that he is finished with front line politics. I really can’t see him coming back.
    You're probably right. Not to be a bag-carrier anyway.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,760
    edited November 2017

    The more I think about it the more I realise than June 23rd wasn’t just a defeat for Remain it was also an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory party.

    That wing of the Tory Party has been hollowed out regretfully.

    Brexit was a defeat for liberalism, as was Trump's election. I think people answered the question in front of them and decided by a small majority that Britain was better out of the EU than in it. They weren't voting to give Cameron a boot up the backside. In previous times they would have given heed to voices that Britain's place is in Europe that it is part of a global network of nations. They didn't do that because liberalism and globalisation are discredited. Mainly because of the banking crisis of 2008 that was blamed on those international elites and because too many ordinary people haven't benefited that much, or maybe at all, from the globalisation of the last two decades.

    So the country bought the snake oil from Farage et al, turned inwards and tries to cut itself off. In doing so it undoubtedly makes those problems much worse.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:
    I noticed in today's 'Times' the headline;

    "Brussels Braced For Fall of May Government"

    Do they know something we don't is it just wishful thinking?
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Roger said:

    Scott_P said:
    I noticed in today's 'Times' the headline;

    "Brussels Braced For Fall of May Government"

    Do they know something we don't is it just wishful thinking?
    It would be wise to do some contingency planning. But at this stage, I don't see it happening.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    You object to both their behaviour and their impact on local resources?
    Not personally. I voted Remain. My children are at schools with a high percentage of Eastern European kids most of whom seem very nice as do their parents.

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,728
    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
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    Where's Lord Falconer on the list?
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    What a crap appointment. Once again Rory is over-looked. Bonkers.
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    Bring back Dave and his stable cabinets.

    https://twitter.com/ian_a_jones/status/928638843502383104

    Jeremy Hunt, the Arsene Wenger of the government...
    Only three cabinet ministers have been in post longer than 1 year, 120 days. More than half (48/92) of the football managers in the top four English divisions have.
  • Options
    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    So Hawthorn Tree Primary in Boston, Lincolnshire, home of the highest leave vote, is wasting its time holding open evenings for the reception places it has available in 2018...
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
  • Options
    Roger said:

    Scott_P said:
    I noticed in today's 'Times' the headline;

    "Brussels Braced For Fall of May Government"

    Do they know something we don't is it just wishful thinking?
    I suppose it makes a change from "Brussels Braced for Formation of Belgian Government".
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    So Hawthorn Tree Primary in Boston, Lincolnshire, home of the highest leave vote, is wasting its time holding open evenings for the reception places it has available in 2018...
    Refugee doctors for Lincolnshire!

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-41160653
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited November 2017

    Bring back Dave and his stable cabinets.

    https://twitter.com/ian_a_jones/status/928638843502383104

    Jeremy Hunt, the Arsene Wenger of the government...
    Only three cabinet ministers have been in post longer than 1 year, 120 days. More than half (48/92) of the football managers in the top four English divisions have.
    Like Arsene, somehow Hunt manages to weather constant set backs and under performing expected results and still there no matter how much the crowd shouts for his head.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    So Hawthorn Tree Primary in Boston, Lincolnshire, home of the highest leave vote, is wasting its time holding open evenings for the reception places it has available in 2018...
    For the umpteenth time I voted Remain. However it is indisputable that local services have been impacted in areas of large EU migration. Pointing out that one Primary school is holding an open evening doesn't change that, nor does pointing out that Eastern Europeans are net tax contributors. I accept that. However it doesn't help if the increased tax take remains with the metropolitan elite rather than being spent in places where it's needed.
  • Options
    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    Yes, classes where half .the kids only speak English as a second language does have an effect on resources... an increase of about £20,000... you really should try to understand this stuff...
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    Yes, classes where half .the kids only speak English as a second language does have an effect on resources... an increase of about £20,000... you really should try to understand this stuff...
    Sorry I don't follow? You're metropolitan wit has baffled me.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    Actually the evidence shows that immigrant kids raise standards and actually help non-immigrant kids.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-39285039
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/02/ofsted-head-michael-wilshaw-praises-england-schools-for-immigrant-integration
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892

    Bring back Dave and his stable cabinets.

    https://twitter.com/ian_a_jones/status/928638843502383104

    Jeremy Hunt, the Arsene Wenger of the government...
    Only three cabinet ministers have been in post longer than 1 year, 120 days. More than half (48/92) of the football managers in the top four English divisions have.
    That's an extraordinary statistic. So Boris went straight from HIGNFY to Foreign Secretary. No wonder he's so crap
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,131

    Where's Lord Falconer on the list?

    Resigned before he was even appointed.

  • Options
    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    midwinter said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    So Hawthorn Tree Primary in Boston, Lincolnshire, home of the highest leave vote, is wasting its time holding open evenings for the reception places it has available in 2018...
    However it doesn't help if the increased tax take remains with the metropolitan elite rather than being spent in places where it's needed.
    Unspoofable...

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Roger said:

    Bring back Dave and his stable cabinets.

    https://twitter.com/ian_a_jones/status/928638843502383104

    Jeremy Hunt, the Arsene Wenger of the government...
    Only three cabinet ministers have been in post longer than 1 year, 120 days. More than half (48/92) of the football managers in the top four English divisions have.
    That's an extraordinary statistic. So Boris went straight from HIGNFY to Foreign Secretary. No wonder he's so crap
    I think you're missing something....
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,131
    Roger said:

    Scott_P said:
    I noticed in today's 'Times' the headline;

    "Brussels Braced For Fall of May Government"

    Do they know something we don't is it just wishful thinking?
    Brussels would also use the excuse of a rock solid, hard-line, intransigent May Govt. as a reason not to negotiate.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    edited November 2017
    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    So Hawthorn Tree Primary in Boston, Lincolnshire, home of the highest leave vote, is wasting its time holding open evenings for the reception places it has available in 2018...
    However it doesn't help if the increased tax take remains with the metropolitan elite rather than being spent in places where it's needed.
    Unspoofable...

    .
    Patronising twat. If you look at the derisory amount spent on education in West Sussex compared to areas of London you might understand why people are unhappy.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    rkrkrk said:

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.



    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    Actually the evidence shows that immigrant kids raise standards and actually help non-immigrant kids.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-39285039
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/02/ofsted-head-michael-wilshaw-praises-england-schools-for-immigrant-integration
    I'm sure that is true. Most of them probably have better educated parents than the locals
  • Options
    Just on education spending specifically, there was a segment on Look North (local news) that pupils in York get about £3,000 less per head than children in London.
  • Options
    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    midwinter said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    Yes, classes where half .the kids only speak English as a second language does have

    Sorry I don't follow? You're metropolitan wit has baffled me.
    Schools get around £1,300 per pupil additional funding for those with English as a second language... this enables the school to spend the additional resources teaching the correct use of “your” and “you’re” to the immigrants
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,728
    edited November 2017
    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    I

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    No, I am not saying that. But those children will have parents who are generally working and paying taxes in this country. The Tories have pursued (ineffectively as it happens) an ideologically driven low-tax, small-state policy which has hampered growth. In pursuing that policy, they have starved public services of sufficient funds.

    Sadly, large sections of the electorate have seen the effects of that underfunding and have incorrectly blamed immigrants for creating too much demand, rather than the government for not raising sufficient taxes and providing properly funded public services. The right-wing press have shamelessly stoked those fears and beliefs.

    The question is, once we have left the EU, and immigration has fallen (because people don't want to live here, not bcause of any controls, which successive governments have shown they are totally incapable of implementing, event where they had the power)... the question is: who will the right-wingers blame then? Because the problems of under-funded public services will not have gone away.

    Rant over!
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Rexel56 said:



    Schools get around £1,300 per pupil additional funding for those with English as a second language... this enables the school to spend the additional resources teaching the correct use of “your” and “you’re” to the immigrants

    It's clear that more money needs to be invested in blockquote training ;)
  • Options

    Just on education spending specifically, there was a segment on Look North (local news) that pupils in York get about £3,000 less per head than children in London.

    Children don't get anything. But I imagine running a school in York costs a lot less than running one in London, even though the teachers in York will be paid more handsomely (in relation to the local jobs market) than those in London.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Carwyn Jones still hasn't made his statement...

    Apparently it is not a resignation one sadly
  • Options
    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807

    Just on education spending specifically, there was a segment on Look North (local news) that pupils in York get about £3,000 less per head than children in London.

    This is certainly the case and the new National Funding Formula has been a lot of huffing and puffing to change very little... to describe the state schools in London getting the highest levels of funding as the “metropolitan elite” is, however, quite misleading...

  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    So Hawthorn Tree Primary in Boston, Lincolnshire, home of the highest leave vote, is wasting its time holding open evenings for the reception places it has available in 2018...
    However it doesn't help if the increased tax take remains with the metropolitan elite rather than being spent in places where it's needed.
    Unspoofable...

    Why unspoofable?
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,962
    FF43 said:

    The more I think about it the more I realise than June 23rd wasn’t just a defeat for Remain it was also an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory party.

    That wing of the Tory Party has been hollowed out regretfully.

    Brexit was a defeat for liberalism, as was Trump's election. I think people answered the question in front of them and decided by a small majority that Britain was better out of the EU than in it. They weren't voting to give Cameron a boot up the backside. In previous times they would have given heed to voices that Britain's place is in Europe that it is part of a global network of nations. They didn't do that because liberalism and globalisation are discredited. Mainly because of the banking crisis of 2008 that was blamed on those international elites and because too many ordinary people haven't benefited that much, or maybe at all, from the globalisation of the last two decades.

    So the country bought the snake oil from Farage et al, turned inwards and tries to cut itself off. In doing so it undoubtedly makes those problems much worse.
    Most importantly, it was an enormous blow for the idea of an open-door immigration policy in a world where not all cultures are equal, or equally desirable. A toxic combination of cultural relatavism and political correctness got us to where we are today.

    There is an enormous difference betwen those who are willing to come to the country, work hard, and integrate - and those who come here, stick to their own, and take advantage of the system. Many if not most are the former. But to deny the existence of the latter is sheer lunacy. Nonetheless, that is what successive governments have done.

    Unfortunately, because successive governments stuck their fingers in their ears and their heads in the sand, shouted la, la, la, we're not listening to you, we are now in the situation where we are. A situation where a certain segment of the population thinks *all* immigration is bad, and who desire a return to nationalist - even nativist - policies. That is ultimately at the heart of the Brexit vote. Us metropolitan elite types simply haven't been negatively affected by it, so we make jokes about "little Englanders" and stir the pot up even more. Brexit was a big, loud "are you listening yet?" - to which the answer so far seems to be a resounding "no".

    It is a terrible situation to be in. But don't blame the people who have "turned inwards", blame successive governments for ignoring the problem. Had we had a more sensible policy on immigration, had there been a greater focus on integration, and on protecting our own working class from being ruthlessly undercut, we would not be where we are now.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Rexel56 said:

    Just on education spending specifically, there was a segment on Look North (local news) that pupils in York get about £3,000 less per head than children in London.

    This is certainly the case and the new National Funding Formula has been a lot of huffing and puffing to change very little... to describe the state schools in London getting the highest levels of funding as the “metropolitan elite” is, however, quite misleading...

    Come and explain it all to us in Labour’s fiefdom in Wales.

    We’ve got the worst education service in the UK.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    edited November 2017

    Just on education spending specifically, there was a segment on Look North (local news) that pupils in York get about £3,000 less per head than children in London.

    Children don't get anything. But I imagine running a school in York costs a lot less than running one in London, even though the teachers in York will be paid more handsomely (in relation to the local jobs market) than those in London.
    3000 quid is a rather big difference - given the average is 4306/pupil.
    Clearly the formula needs to be revised to be more equitable (have to admit I was stunned at how big the disparity between regions is).

    Of course the Conservative cuts to the schools budget aren't going to help low levels of funding.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/school-funding-england-nicky-morgan-teachers-strike-schools-north-south-a7120141.html
  • Options
    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    RobD said:

    Rexel56 said:



    Schools get around £1,300 per pupil additional funding for those with English as a second language... this enables the school to spend the additional resources teaching the correct use of “your” and “you’re” to the immigrants

    It's clear that more money needs to be invested in blockquote training ;)
    Guilty as charged.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    rkrkrk said:

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    Actually the evidence shows that immigrant kids raise standards and actually help non-immigrant kids.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-39285039
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/02/ofsted-head-michael-wilshaw-praises-england-schools-for-immigrant-integration
    It really depends on the immigrants. The broad truth is that class and parental attitudes are the prime exterior determinant of pupil performance. Resources, including the general quality of teaching, I think come next.
  • Options
    Toxicology tests suggest a German former nurse murdered at least 100 people at two hospitals where he worked, prosecutors say.

    Detectives believe Niels Hoegl, who is already serving a life sentence for two murders, systematically administered fatal doses of heart medication to people in his care.

    He wanted to impress colleagues by resuscitating them but many died.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41930177
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    felix said:

    rkrkrk said:

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    Actually the evidence shows that immigrant kids raise standards and actually help non-immigrant kids.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-39285039
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/02/ofsted-head-michael-wilshaw-praises-england-schools-for-immigrant-integration
    It really depends on the immigrants. The broad truth is that class and parental attitudes are the prime exterior determinant of pupil performance. Resources, including the general quality of teaching, I think come next.
    I think the effect holds across all immigrant groups.
  • Options
    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    So Hawthorn Tree Primary in Boston, Lincolnshire, home of the highest leave vote, is wasting its time holding open evenings for the reception places it has available in 2018...
    However it doesn't help if the increased tax take remains with the metropolitan elite rather than being spent in places where it's needed.
    Unspoofable...

    Why unspoofable?
    Well, can you explain the mechanism by which taxation of East Europeans is directed to a class of people who might reasonably be described as metropolitan and elite?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    rkrkrk said:

    felix said:

    rkrkrk said:

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs


    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point" not because of eastern europeans (who overall pay more in uk taxes than they take in resources) but because this effing useless government has pursued an ideological neo-liberal doctrine since 2010 which has hampered growth and thereby starved public services of resources.

    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    Actually the evidence shows that immigrant kids raise standards and actually help non-immigrant kids.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/education-39285039
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/nov/02/ofsted-head-michael-wilshaw-praises-england-schools-for-immigrant-integration
    It really depends on the immigrants. The broad truth is that class and parental attitudes are the prime exterior determinant of pupil performance. Resources, including the general quality of teaching, I think come next.
    I think the effect holds across all immigrant groups.
    Nope - Bangladeshi and afro-caribbean students have lagged for many years largely for the reasons I outlined. I know you'd love to believe that all evil emanates from our indigenous proles and all immigrants are truly manna from heaven bit it isn't so.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,095
    Penny Mourdaunt an excellent choice for the new DFID Secretary and a fresh, relatively young face too.
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.
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    Mr. Nabavi, hmm, interesting points. Sometimes, pay/funding difference based on geography can be as tricky as trying to work out relative prices of things in the distant past.

    That said, York's quite a swanky place and whilst costs may not be as high as parts of London, the disparity is stark.
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    rkrkrk said:

    3000 quid is a rather big difference - given the average is 4306/pupil.
    Clearly the formula needs to be revised to be more equitable (have to admit I was stunned at how big the disparity between regions is).

    Of course the Conservative cuts to the schools budget aren't going to help low levels of funding.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/school-funding-england-nicky-morgan-teachers-strike-schools-north-south-a7120141.html

    That article predates the changes which the Conservative government is making to address the disparities, which are as you say surprisingly wide (even if you treat the extra costs of operating in London as a special case).
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,131
    Roger said:

    Bring back Dave and his stable cabinets.

    https://twitter.com/ian_a_jones/status/928638843502383104

    Jeremy Hunt, the Arsene Wenger of the government...
    Only three cabinet ministers have been in post longer than 1 year, 120 days. More than half (48/92) of the football managers in the top four English divisions have.
    That's an extraordinary statistic. So Boris went straight from HIGNFY to Foreign Secretary. No wonder he's so crap
    To think, on that basis we could have had Brian Blessed as Foreign Secretary.

    Well, if you need somebody to shout loudly at Johnny Foreigner.....
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,095

    The more I think about it the more I realise than June 23rd wasn’t just a defeat for Remain it was also an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory party.

    That wing of the Tory Party has been hollowed out regretfully.

    June 23rd 2016 was an epochal defeat for the Cameroon wing of the Tory Party and June 8th 2017 an epochal defeat for the Blairite wing of the Labour Party.

    Apart from the LDs , Brexiteers and Corbynistas are all conquering.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    What an utter waste of money.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,864

    midwinter said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    I

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    "resources
    It's as simple and clear as that!
    So you're really trying to tell me that classes where half the kids only speak English as a second language doesn't have any effect on the amount of resources required in a classroom? Really?
    And that doesn't even take into account the larger class sizes or schools required to cope with the demand.
    No, I am not saying that. But those children will have parents who are generally working and paying taxes in this country. The Tories have pursued (ineffectively as it happens) an ideologically driven low-tax, small-state policy which has hampered growth. In pursuing that policy, they have starved public services of sufficient funds.

    Sadly, large sections of the electorate have seen the effects of that underfunding and have incorrectly blamed immigrants for creating too much demand, rather than the government for not raising sufficient taxes and providing properly funded public services. The right-wing press have shamelessly stoked those fears and beliefs.

    The question is, once we have left the EU, and immigration has fallen (because people don't want to live here, not bcause of any controls, which successive governments have shown they are totally incapable of implementing, event where they had the power)... the question is: who will the right-wingers blame then? Because the problems of under-funded public services will not have gone away.

    Rant over!
    Why would the government have to raise taxes, if, as you claim, immigrants contribute more in taxes than they receive in terms of public spending?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,131

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    I've heard the Directors of the V&A are fighting like rats in a sack for the honour of living in this new acquisition....
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,864

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    Robin Hood Gardens is a hellhole to live in.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Rexel56 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    So Hawthorn Tree Primary in Boston, Lincolnshire, home of the highest leave vote, is wasting its time holding open evenings for the reception places it has available in 2018...
    However it doesn't help if the increased tax take remains with the metropolitan elite rather than being spent in places where it's needed.
    Unspoofable...

    Why unspoofable?
    Well, can you explain the mechanism by which taxation of East Europeans is directed to a class of people who might reasonably be described as metropolitan and elite?
    But that doesn't undermine the argument, does it? Because the extra tax doesn't affect the problem in, e.g., Lincolnshire unless it is fed directly and immediately back into housing, schools and hospitals. Things don't work that way.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,349

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    The mind boggles. In complete contrast the truly spectacular building the V&A have built in Dundee looks well worth a visit: https://www.vandadundee.org/building-vanda-dundee

    It really does look as good as that. One of the best new built buildings I have seen in a long time.
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    Mr. Urquhart, that building is ugly as ****.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,131
    Sean_F said:

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    Robin Hood Gardens is a hellhole to live in.
    Brutalist and houing should never, ever have been in the same sentence.

    #WhatWereTheyThinking
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    Sean_F said:

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    Robin Hood Gardens is a hellhole to live in.
    Yes, modern architecture is one of the few professions where designers can be hugely praised by their colleagues for designs which fail the most basic test of actually being fit for the purpose.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,131

    Mr. Urquhart, that building is ugly as ****.

    Personally. I'd rate it as 5-star ugly, Mr Dancer.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    I've heard the Directors of the V&A are fighting like rats in a sack for the honour of living in this new acquisition....
    Tristram will love it there. So real.
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    Sean_F said:

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    Robin Hood Gardens is a hellhole to live in.
    Brutalist and houing should never, ever have been in the same sentence.

    #WhatWereTheyThinking
    The Barbican is fantastically popular housing and as Brutalist as it gets.
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    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    rkrkrk said:

    Just on education spending specifically, there was a segment on Look North (local news) that pupils in York get about £3,000 less per head than children in London.

    Children don't get anything. But I imagine running a school in York costs a lot less than running one in London, even though the teachers in York will be paid more handsomely (in relation to the local jobs market) than those in London.
    3000 quid is a rather big difference - given the average is 4306/pupil.
    Clearly the formula needs to be revised to be more equitable (have to admit I was stunned at how big the disparity between regions is).

    Of course the Conservative cuts to the schools budget aren't going to help low levels of funding.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/school-funding-england-nicky-morgan-teachers-strike-schools-north-south-a7120141.html
    The National Funding Formula has just been finalised after a somewhat tortuous journey.
    It was intended to reduce differences between high funding to metropolitan education authorities and that received by the leafy suburbs and small rural schools.

    The Formula was announced and immediately collapsed as among the biggest losers were, you’ve guessed it, small rural schools.

    A rethink and a shuffle of the DfE budgets now means that every school will see an increase in per pupil funding of at least 0.5% next year and 1% the year after compared to the previous, local fund8ng formula. Frustratingly for some, such as the small, non-selective secondary school where I’m a Governor, the biggest winners are the grammar schools in towns such as Harrogate.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Mr. Urquhart, that building is ugly as ****.

    Surely the architects should be put on trial and compelled by curfew to live on the top floor of that for thirty or 40 years, rather than feted by the V and A?
  • Options

    Carwyn Jones still hasn't made his statement...

    Apparently it is not a resignation one sadly

    If he doesn't resign believe a no confidence vote with be submitted to the Assembly
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,349

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    I've heard the Directors of the V&A are fighting like rats in a sack for the honour of living in this new acquisition....
    Tristram will love it there. So real.
    Particularly when his unsolicited smack is delivered through the door which is then kicked in the next night looking for payment....
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,221
    Hello,

    Have been busy doing interesting stuff. I see that May is still crap and still unable to pick a team. Plus ca change....

    Anyway O/T a question for the PB Brains Trust: testimonials on a website? Yes / no? Named or not? How many? Obviously, it's not a school report and lots of "this person was brilliant" is tiresome and egomaniacal. But I want to get across that I don't just have a brilliant concept but that I've actually been doing it and it's been successful so that people can feel confident about using me.

    Any bright / helpful ideas most welcome. By VM if you want. One doesn't want to go clogging up the thread, esp when there are so many wonderful ways of saying FFS! when describing our government........

    Many thanks.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    edited November 2017

    Carwyn Jones still hasn't made his statement...

    Apparently it is not a resignation one sadly

    If he doesn't resign believe a no confidence vote with be submitted to the Assembly
    Due to start v shortly - only 50 minutes late...

    https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YqKDLreNZaKV
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,056

    Just on education spending specifically, there was a segment on Look North (local news) that pupils in York get about £3,000 less per head than children in London.

    Pah. Cambridgeshire gets less than anybody, but you don't hear us whinging about it (*), unlike you namby-pamby Yorkshirefolk.

    (*) Well, we do a little
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Hello,

    Have been busy doing interesting stuff. I see that May is still crap and still unable to pick a team. Plus ca change....

    Anyway O/T a question for the PB Brains Trust: testimonials on a website? Yes / no? Named or not? How many? Obviously, it's not a school report and lots of "this person was brilliant" is tiresome and egomaniacal. But I want to get across that I don't just have a brilliant concept but that I've actually been doing it and it's been successful so that people can feel confident about using me.

    Any bright / helpful ideas most welcome. By VM if you want. One doesn't want to go clogging up the thread, esp when there are so many wonderful ways of saying FFS! when describing our government........

    Many thanks.

    If you can get named testimonials from good sources, yes. You don't need very many, just enough to demonstrate that serious people rate you.
  • Options

    Carwyn Jones still hasn't made his statement...

    Apparently it is not a resignation one sadly

    If he doesn't resign believe a no confidence vote with be submitted to the Assembly
    Due to start v shortly - only 50 minutes late...

    https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YqKDLreNZaKV
    Just said he will make a statement but not take any questions
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,926

    I get the feeling the Guardian just ran a script with names from Whos Who and any that were found in the documents they have written a piece on them.

    Unless they are known Labour supporters, of course.
    LOL. Although something tells me think Gary Lineker doesn't vote Tory.

    I am all for exposing the tax dodgers and the second Panorama programme did spend a fair bit of time highlighting a guy responsible for a very dodgy looking scheme. But all this stuff of Justin Timberlake set up in a company in the Bahamas, to errrhh buy a golf course in the Bahamas, Gary Lineker the same for a holiday home, JRM had shares in a company he worked for is just bollocks.
    But huge teams of journos have been poring through this stuff for the best part of a year. The Guardian are a couple of hundred grand in on this story, they’re going to keep running with it no matter how tenuous or otherwise shite is the material they’ve got.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,743

    Mr. Urquhart, that building is ugly as ****.

    For once, Mr.D, we are entirely in accord.
    I appreciate many different styles of architecture, but the appeal of something like this is entirely lost on me.

    (In my relatively limited experience, most architects I've come across have little or no interest in the thoughts of those who might either pay for or use the buildings they design...)
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    Cyclefree said:

    Hello,

    Have been busy doing interesting stuff. I see that May is still crap and still unable to pick a team. Plus ca change....

    Anyway O/T a question for the PB Brains Trust: testimonials on a website? Yes / no? Named or not? How many? Obviously, it's not a school report and lots of "this person was brilliant" is tiresome and egomaniacal. But I want to get across that I don't just have a brilliant concept but that I've actually been doing it and it's been successful so that people can feel confident about using me.

    Any bright / helpful ideas most welcome. By VM if you want. One doesn't want to go clogging up the thread, esp when there are so many wonderful ways of saying FFS! when describing our government........

    Many thanks.

    Unless someone's already got a reasonable reputation then I tend to assume most website testimonials are fake. And if they have a good rep then I don't really need to read a canned testimonial.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Cyclefree said:

    Hello,

    Have been busy doing interesting stuff. I see that May is still crap and still unable to pick a team. Plus ca change....

    Anyway O/T a question for the PB Brains Trust: testimonials on a website? Yes / no? Named or not? How many? Obviously, it's not a school report and lots of "this person was brilliant" is tiresome and egomaniacal. But I want to get across that I don't just have a brilliant concept but that I've actually been doing it and it's been successful so that people can feel confident about using me.

    Any bright / helpful ideas most welcome. By VM if you want. One doesn't want to go clogging up the thread, esp when there are so many wonderful ways of saying FFS! when describing our government........

    Many thanks.

    Yes. English modesty is all very becoming, and you mustn't blow your own trumpet, but you should certainly create the opportunity for satisfied customers to blow it for you.

    Are you on facebook? I dunno what you do, but most small businesses I deal with have facebook pages and concentrate their efforts on keeping them up to date, while the official website is quite often neglected and unloved. The advantage of facebook is it has an automatic option for posting reviews, so it doesn't look as if you are specifically soliciting them.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,349
    Cyclefree said:

    Hello,

    Have been busy doing interesting stuff. I see that May is still crap and still unable to pick a team. Plus ca change....

    Anyway O/T a question for the PB Brains Trust: testimonials on a website? Yes / no? Named or not? How many? Obviously, it's not a school report and lots of "this person was brilliant" is tiresome and egomaniacal. But I want to get across that I don't just have a brilliant concept but that I've actually been doing it and it's been successful so that people can feel confident about using me.

    Any bright / helpful ideas most welcome. By VM if you want. One doesn't want to go clogging up the thread, esp when there are so many wonderful ways of saying FFS! when describing our government........

    Many thanks.

    I would say not personally but that might be because I am very shy. A news item section which you keep updated is definitely a good idea and you can link to any bits and pieces of media work that you do such as articles mentioning you in the FT... You can also catch key words in respect of any new regulations etc that you happen to comment on.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,028
    edited November 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. Urquhart, that building is ugly as ****.

    Surely the architects should be put on trial and compelled by curfew to live on the top floor of that for thirty or 40 years, rather than feted by the V and A?
    I live in a small town largely, in the middle anyway Georgian at the latest, often though Georgian fronts were grafted on to 14/15th century houses. There are a lot of the original houses, too. The oldest, as far as is known, is made from timbers felled in 1321 or thereabouts.

    About 50 years ago one of the houses a) caught fire and b) subsequently collapsed. It was replaced by a block of half a dozen shops with flats over which must have been designed by the same architects. Right bang in the middle of the town.

    Appoafrently architecture students are now brought here to show them what not to do
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2017

    Carwyn Jones still hasn't made his statement...

    Apparently it is not a resignation one sadly

    If he doesn't resign believe a no confidence vote with be submitted to the Assembly
    Due to start v shortly - only 50 minutes late...

    https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YqKDLreNZaKV
    Just said he will make a statement but not take any questions
    I think he is doomed, just a matter of time.

    Look at the statements on the BBC website from Labour’s Leighton Andrews, effectively saying Carwyn presided over a bullying regime.

    Or the incredibly bitter statement from the Labour Deputy Leader of Flintshire Council.

    As I said yesterday, it is not even clear who the bully is, and who the victim is in this tangled saga.

    And this is own side talking.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,743

    rkrkrk said:

    3000 quid is a rather big difference - given the average is 4306/pupil.
    Clearly the formula needs to be revised to be more equitable (have to admit I was stunned at how big the disparity between regions is).

    Of course the Conservative cuts to the schools budget aren't going to help low levels of funding.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/school-funding-england-nicky-morgan-teachers-strike-schools-north-south-a7120141.html

    That article predates the changes which the Conservative government is making to address the disparities, which are as you say surprisingly wide (even if you treat the extra costs of operating in London as a special case).
    The changes will address disparities very slowly indeed - and the squeeze on budgets will see a significant proportion of even those who are relative gainers struggling.
    But it's a gesture in the right direction.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,383

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    People queued round the block, literally, for Rachel Whiteread's house, back in the day.
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    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    I really can't see how Boris Johnson can stay in the cabinet for much longer. His every move is being studied by the media and he himself is quite unfit for any cabinet office let alone foreign secretary. There must come a point too when his own leadership ambitions reach a point where he has to make his move.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,383

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    I've heard the Directors of the V&A are fighting like rats in a sack for the honour of living in this new acquisition....
    Tristram will love it there. So real.
    Living in the Trellick tower is seen as a very post-modern experience.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. Urquhart, that building is ugly as ****.

    Surely the architects should be put on trial and compelled by curfew to live on the top floor of that for thirty or 40 years, rather than feted by the V and A?
    I live in a small town largely, in the middle anyway Georgian at the latest, often though Georgian fronts grafted on to 14/15th centurey house. There are a lot of the original houses, too. The oldest house, as far as is known, has timbers felled in 1321 or thereabouts.

    About 50 years ago one of the houses a) caught fire and b) subsequently collapsed. It was replaced by a block of half a dozen shops with flats over which must have been designed by the same architects. Right bang in the middle of the town.
    Appoafrently architecture students are now brought here to show them what not to do
    You only have to look at some of the 50s/60s/70s stuff added to some of the Oxford college to see how inappropriate much of the development was at that time. Most of the colleges seem to have some concrete monostrosity that they would rather like to pretend doesn't exist any longer.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Rexel56 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Rexel56 said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    midwinter said:

    Roger said:

    Why do Brexiteers always remind me of Millwall supporters....

    WE DONT LIKE TO BE PUSHED AROUND. WE"RE ENGLISH AND WE DO WHAT WE WANT!

    Thank God for the Metropolitan elite or we really would be pariahs

    That sort of attitude and the sneering condescension towards working class people in areas of high EU immigration that led to the Leave vote.
    I voted Remain because I wanted Cameron and Osborne to stay and consider the economic benefits of the EU trump the disadvantages. However next time you're in Sussex take a stroll through the grimy streets of Bognor Regis, and you might understand the reason why people were happy to vote Leave.
    It is well known among our soon to be ex EU partners that the country divided roughly in half. As a shorthand they were told that the educated city dwellers voted REMAIN whereas the less well educated country bumpkins voted LEAVE.

    So when the English urinate on the beaches of Benidorm or vomit on the side of Tavernas in Crete it's assumed they're the country bumpkins they didn't previously know existed.

    So the only thing keeping our international credibility even vaguely intact are the Metropolitan elite.
    Perhaps the country bumpkins are the ones who are watching the Eastern Europeans urinate on the beaches of Bognor and vomit on the side of Wetherspoons in Boston. That's probably why they couldn't care less about the hurt feelings of the metropolitan elite.

    You can't possibly have any comprehension of what it's like to live in places where resources like education and health are stretched to breaking point. So you really shouldn't judge other people.
    he reception places it has available in 2018...
    However it doesn't help if the increased tax take remains with the metropolitan elite rather than being spent in places where it's needed.
    Unspoofable...

    Why unspoofable?
    Well, can you explain the mechanism by which taxation of East Europeans is directed to a class of people who might reasonably be described as metropolitan and elite?
    I wasn't really suggesting that all Eastern Europeans in the West Sussex had their taxation directed to the metropolitan elite as I suspect you well knew. It is fair to say that the funding in West Sussex schools is much lower than that in London and other cities.

    The tax revenues raised from the migrants isn't being spent on schools, hospitals and transport in the areas where they live.
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    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Bring back Dave and his stable cabinets.

    https://twitter.com/ian_a_jones/status/928638843502383104


    That has to be the dumbest chart ever. TM has only been PM since last year, so of course her cabinet will be of equivalent age.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,056
    edited November 2017
    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/V_and_A/status/928567373199749122

    You are alright, I will give it a miss thanks.

    People queued round the block, literally, for Rachel Whiteread's house, back in the day.
    Was that the one at Mile End that the KLF gave an award for being the worst work of modern art?

    Edit:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/turner-prize-won-by-worst-artist-1506249.html
This discussion has been closed.