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  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    OchEye said:

    The latest twist doesn't make much sense. Why would a meeting with Yuval Rotem be any more embarrassing to the FCO than the other 12 meetings? Would anyone have noticed if the list had been 14 rather than 12 meetings?

    She admitted the 12 meetings, but conveniently forgot the other 2 when she got back from her "hols". If I were her boss, and found one of my staff had lied consistently to my face, then after being told there were no further problems, suddenly discovered that there were, and that I was being made to look an idiot, then I would not just be spitting tacks, it would be bullets....
    Except the JC is claiming they were told about the 2 extra meetings as well. Twin sourced claim.
    What is the JC apart from Jesus Christ?
    Jewish Chronicle
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Surely this is worse for May? Looks like she's thrown Patel under a bus
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tompeck: Meanwhile, Priti Patel is sitting on a plane with no wifi, and doesn't know we know that she knows that Number 10 knows. twitter.com/JewishChron/st…
  • OchEye said:

    The latest twist doesn't make much sense. Why would a meeting with Yuval Rotem be any more embarrassing to the FCO than the other 12 meetings? Would anyone have noticed if the list had been 14 rather than 12 meetings?

    She admitted the 12 meetings, but conveniently forgot the other 2 when she got back from her "hols". If I were her boss, and found one of my staff had lied consistently to my face, then after being told there were no further problems, suddenly discovered that there were, and that I was being made to look an idiot, then I would not just be spitting tacks, it would be bullets....
    Except the JC is claiming they were told about the 2 extra meetings as well. Twin sourced claim.
    What is the JC apart from Jesus Christ?
    Jewish Chronicle newspaper
  • A group of LibDem women have signed an open letter to Vince Cable accusing the party of covering up sexual assaults and harassment. The letter, signed by dozens of female activists over the last two days, says the party did not “adequately look into” an allegation of assault against a male LibDem, warns this is not an “isolated case” and says “the party is failing” at dealing with harassment:

    https://order-order.com/2017/11/08/libdem-women-write-cable-accusing-party-covering-sexual-assaults/
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    May may not be in a position to make any Cabinet changes by Sunday evening.

    I thought that the problem was that she is unable to make any Cabinet changes at any time? No one is sackable (apparently)
  • Surely this is worse for May? Looks like she's thrown Patel under a bus
    I agree. Patel is going and taking May with her. I'd say it is now 50:50 whether May is gone by Sunday evening.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @christopherhope: BREAKING Priti Patel's team has now also been recalled to UK, reports @Annaisaac on the ground in Africa.
  • Surely this is worse for May? Looks like she's thrown Patel under a bus
    At the moment, I feel like I've indulged in so much head-shaking that I've got RSI, and I've typed FFS so often I'm worried about wearing out the F on my keyboard.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I agree. Patel is going and taking May with her. I'd say it is now 50:50 whether May is gone by Sunday evening.

    Shadsy has 100/1 on a 2017 election...
  • A group of LibDem women have signed an open letter to Vince Cable accusing the party of covering up sexual assaults and harassment. The letter, signed by dozens of female activists over the last two days, says the party did not “adequately look into” an allegation of assault against a male LibDem, warns this is not an “isolated case” and says “the party is failing” at dealing with harassment:

    https://order-order.com/2017/11/08/libdem-women-write-cable-accusing-party-covering-sexual-assaults/

    They have sent this letter on the wrong day. No one will notice.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited November 2017
    Perhaps the Golam Heights are a tax haven and Priti Patel was just checking her investments.

    Edit: Or there on behalf of the PM's investments.
  • Scott_P said:

    I agree. Patel is going and taking May with her. I'd say it is now 50:50 whether May is gone by Sunday evening.

    Shadsy has 100/1 on a 2017 election...
    Just go on May being out in 2017 at 9 on BF.
  • Surely this is worse for May? Looks like she's thrown Patel under a bus
    At the moment, I feel like I've indulged in so much head-shaking that I've got RSI, and I've typed FFS so often I'm worried about wearing out the F on my keyboard.
    Can you imagine if May had a Tucker character trying to keep discipline behind the scenes?

    "see you, you are a fucking omnishambles, that's what you are. You're like that coffee machine, you know, "From bean to cup, you fuck up.". Followed by the Nicola Murray politically hanging herself on the train stunt thats been posted several times.

    The one problem with Iannouchi's scripts. His ideas of satire have all come true. He needed to be more extreme.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    edited November 2017
    Guardian saying that visit to Golan was co-ordinated by Israel Foreign ministry.

    edit: so not very "private" visit
  • If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Scott_P said:

    Armando Iannucci is behind all this, I'm telling you.

    Again

    https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/928198869258776576
    I'd be very happy if quiet bat people was the biggest embarrassment emanating from our government right now.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Can you imagine if May had a Tucker character trying to keep discipline behind the scenes?

    "see you, you are a fucking omnishambles, that's what you are. You're like that coffee machine, you know, "From bean to cup, you fuck up.". Followed by the Nicola Murray politically hanging herself on the train stunt thats been posted several times.

    The one problem with Iannouchi's scripts. His ideas of satire have all come true. He needed to be more extreme.

    This seems appropriate

    image
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Someone says "imagine if there'd been a PMQs today". If there had been, Corbyn would have gone on welfare cuts...
  • Can we now stop calling May a 'poundshop' Gordon Brown?

    This is clearly an insult to both poundshop and to Gordon.
  • Why is there no PMQs today?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/928207985523986432

    Get yer Shadsy Christmas bonus here...

    If Rory The Tory doesn't get the gig, I think we can safely say hell will freeze over before he gets a proper job.
    It all depends on whether he, like a lot of other Tory young hopefuls were on the spreadsheet. Its too high risk to promote people on there right now (which was probably the intention of its author).
  • Why is there no PMQs today?

    Recess
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,678
    edited November 2017

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
  • Why is there no PMQs today?

    Recess
    What? for half term? We had that two weeks ago up North.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    IF TMay is drawn into this, either because she actually allowed Patel to have the meetings, or tried to hide the extra meetings, then I cannot see her continuing. A stronger leader would have taken the hit and moved on.

    I used to think that TMay should wait and take the Brexit hit and let another leader take over. However, she has been so fatally wounded by GE2017 it is causing ongoing harm, and then allowing stunts like this to be pulled? Crazy. The only way she would survive is by acting as strong and stable as possible, and she as done the reverse of that.

    However, if this is all Patel's doing, and TMay is not involved and just sacks her, then she will continue. For now. Whether that's a good thing is another matter.

  • Chameleon said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/928207985523986432

    Get yer Shadsy Christmas bonus here...

    If Rory The Tory doesn't get the gig, I think we can safely say hell will freeze over before he gets a proper job.
    It all depends on whether he, like a lot of other Tory young hopefuls were on the spreadsheet. Its too high risk to promote people on there right now (which was probably the intention of its author).
    iirc he was on the spreadsheet, and has strongly denied any knowledge of what ever it was. He may even have been one of those who have lawyered up.
  • Scott_P said:

    I agree. Patel is going and taking May with her. I'd say it is now 50:50 whether May is gone by Sunday evening.

    Shadsy has 100/1 on a 2017 election...
    I presume you mean *another* one?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    Scott_P said:

    I agree. Patel is going and taking May with her. I'd say it is now 50:50 whether May is gone by Sunday evening.

    Shadsy has 100/1 on a 2017 election...
    Is there enough time for an election to be held in 2017? The FTPA timetable seems to be longer than it used to be when HM could just dissolve parliament when requested by the PM.
  • If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Tell Hague to put down his history books and get the train to London. He may be needed by Sunday.
  • Mr. P, favourite*.

    Also, 'sister' would be more accurate.

    Mr. Herdson, Hague?
  • Scott_P said:

    I agree. Patel is going and taking May with her. I'd say it is now 50:50 whether May is gone by Sunday evening.

    Shadsy has 100/1 on a 2017 election...
    Not enough time for an election before Xmas

    Plenty of time to start a leadership race though.

    Where's Dorrell, Lilley and Ancram?
  • OchEye said:

    The latest twist doesn't make much sense. Why would a meeting with Yuval Rotem be any more embarrassing to the FCO than the other 12 meetings? Would anyone have noticed if the list had been 14 rather than 12 meetings?

    She admitted the 12 meetings, but conveniently forgot the other 2 when she got back from her "hols". If I were her boss, and found one of my staff had lied consistently to my face, then after being told there were no further problems, suddenly discovered that there were, and that I was being made to look an idiot, then I would not just be spitting tacks, it would be bullets....
    Except the JC is claiming they were told about the 2 extra meetings as well. Twin sourced claim.
    What is the JC apart from Jesus Christ?
    Jewish Chronicle
    Not our Jeremy?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @DPJHodges: Someone says "imagine if there'd been a PMQs today". If there had been, Corbyn would have gone on welfare cuts...

    Nah, he’d have followed up on expat sportsman’s plane’s VAT bill.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Chameleon said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/928207985523986432

    Get yer Shadsy Christmas bonus here...

    If Rory The Tory doesn't get the gig, I think we can safely say hell will freeze over before he gets a proper job.
    It all depends on whether he, like a lot of other Tory young hopefuls were on the spreadsheet. Its too high risk to promote people on there right now (which was probably the intention of its author).
    iirc he was on the spreadsheet, and has strongly denied any knowledge of what ever it was. He may even have been one of those who have lawyered up.
    Yeah, it was quite striking just *how* many young Tories tipped for advancement were on there. However it has done its job, if a party leader promotes someone on that spreadsheet, and allegations come out then that will be the end of both of their careers.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/928207985523986432

    Get yer Shadsy Christmas bonus here...

    Let me guess, no way to lay?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Lord Hague or Lord Howard would fit. Probably the former.
  • Scott_P said:

    @gabyhinsliff: *if* (big if) PM was using Patel behind Boris's back, or even condoning her making foreign policy behind his back, in any other circs he'd have grounds to resign on outraged pt of principle & pose serious threat to PM

    @gabyhinsliff: but as in the meantime he's done something for which he himself should probably resign, that's out the window. Leaving what's technically known as 'an uholy mess'

    Where's tap when you need him? Are Israel and the spreadsheet both half-cocked Number 10 plots against Boris?
  • Scott_P said:

    I agree. Patel is going and taking May with her. I'd say it is now 50:50 whether May is gone by Sunday evening.

    Shadsy has 100/1 on a 2017 election...
    Is there enough time for an election to be held in 2017? The FTPA timetable seems to be longer than it used to be when HM could just dissolve parliament when requested by the PM.
    Yes, we would be looking at something like the 28th December. No chance.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited November 2017
    Chameleon said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/928207985523986432

    Get yer Shadsy Christmas bonus here...

    If Rory The Tory doesn't get the gig, I think we can safely say hell will freeze over before he gets a proper job.
    It all depends on whether he, like a lot of other Tory young hopefuls were on the spreadsheet. Its too high risk to promote people on there right now (which was probably the intention of its author).
    We have done this about 20 times.

    He was, but it was supposed to be that he asked a former assistant to do weird stuff, but his former assistant immediately came out and say he was a wonderful boss and it was all total bullshit.

    Given she no longer works for him, and the (untrue) allegation was that she complained, it would seem she has no reason to defend him in this manner.

    The "list" has already been found to contain provable false claims.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    Chameleon said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/928207985523986432

    Get yer Shadsy Christmas bonus here...

    Let me guess, no way to lay?
    Liz Truss LOL
  • Mr. Owls, that sounds like total bullshit, and I hope it can be resolved without costing you a fortune or endless hoop-jumping.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Surely this is worse for May? Looks like she's thrown Patel under a bus
    At the moment, I feel like I've indulged in so much head-shaking that I've got RSI, and I've typed FFS so often I'm worried about wearing out the F on my keyboard.
    I just LOL'd on the tube around Westminster catching up on here and a very smart (PPS-ish type) bloke sitting next to me was evidently looking at my phone. I would have bet money he was somehow involved from his reaction.
  • FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    Sorry to hear of your troubles. There does seem a postcode lottery with this kind of thing. I had similar issues with the need for hand rails for stairs and a loop thing for a bed: OT and council had it sorted in 48 hours. They are desperate to stop falls and keep people out of NHS A&E (or are supposed to be).
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    I am so sorry to hear this.

    Could you get your doctor to say that you are not fit enough to assist your wife during the day? Might that help?
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
    So do the Tories ultimately prefer PM Corbyn leading a minority government, or the risk of bringing his government down and causing a GE in which there are almost certainly Tory losses and possibly PM Corbyn returned with a majority? Because that's the next choice to be made.

    Of course it's also an open question whether the Conservative party now exists as a sufficiently disciplined entity to make a single coherent choice about any matter, including how to act in Parliamentary votes when in opposition.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    OchEye said:

    The latest twist doesn't make much sense. Why would a meeting with Yuval Rotem be any more embarrassing to the FCO than the other 12 meetings? Would anyone have noticed if the list had been 14 rather than 12 meetings?

    She admitted the 12 meetings, but conveniently forgot the other 2 when she got back from her "hols". If I were her boss, and found one of my staff had lied consistently to my face, then after being told there were no further problems, suddenly discovered that there were, and that I was being made to look an idiot, then I would not just be spitting tacks, it would be bullets....
    Except the JC is claiming they were told about the 2 extra meetings as well. Twin sourced claim.
    What is the JC apart from Jesus Christ?
    Jewish Chronicle
    Not our Jeremy?
    JC is now more adored than JC and definitely more than JC

    Hope that's not Anti Semitic
  • Ladbroke odds have changed - now Penny Mordaunt as fav.
  • Forget the fantasy about Hague or Howard (or Clarke who'd be my choice for caretaker). The next leader will be an MP. And given the absolute Omnishambles in the cabinet I still think the Moggmeister has a decent chance by means of looking and sounding like a Tory, being a leaver and being a clean pair of hands.

    He's no experience of course. Which right now is an advantage
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Siderov's party (Attack) isn't in the Bulgarian government although other members of their electoral alliance (UP) are.
  • FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    Just so upsetting and unacceptable - hope it gets resolved
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    That really doesn’t sound good. As suggested the other day, it’s probably time to get your MP involved now.
  • Forget the fantasy about Hague or Howard (or Clarke who'd be my choice for caretaker). The next leader will be an MP. And given the absolute Omnishambles in the cabinet I still think the Moggmeister has a decent chance by means of looking and sounding like a Tory, being a leaver and being a clean pair of hands.

    He's no experience of course. Which right now is an advantage

    Trouble is he looks and sounds like (and is) a Tory.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    edited November 2017
    Speaking of caretakers, I'm reading The Alexiad, and was amused to learn that when Alexios went to fight Robert Guiscard he essentially left the Roman Empire to his mum.

    Edited extra bit: if Labour weren't led by Corbyn, they'd have a thirty point lead now.
  • As Israel is involved some enterprising young journo should ring Livinston up and get a quote.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    As Israel is involved some enterprising young journo should ring Livinston up and get a quote.

    Like
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    Cyclefree said:

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    I am so sorry to hear this.

    Could you get your doctor to say that you are not fit enough to assist your wife during the day? Might that help?
    She already has said we need an o/h hoist. It's not so much to do with my fitness. It's just Lesleys condition makes repositioning difficult and no matter how fit the carer is there has to be two.

    The council's solution involves extra care visits but as the wife's spasms ate completely unpredictable what time are they required.

    I think my likely solution is hiring a hoist privately (£400 a month) but its just f*****ng frustrating.

    As some would say H&S gone mad when the safest solution is deemed unsafe and the alternatives far less safe.

    How could I put the liability for their solution back in their court???
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    Might May sack Patel whilst she is airborne and invite the press to the airport arrivals to greet her?
  • As Israel is involved some enterprising young journo should ring Livinston up and get a quote.
    What could possibly go wrong...
  • Speaking of caretakers, I'm reading The Alexiad, and was amused to learn that when Alexios went to fight Robert Guiscard he essentially left the Roman Empire to his mum.

    Edited extra bit: if Labour weren't led by Corbyn, they'd have a thirty point lead now.

    Easily
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    edited November 2017
    This rumour that Priti was working under Theresa's instructions is amazing. If she's made to do the 'apologize and move on' thing, rather than be sacked, then I'll definitely smell a rat.
  • If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
    Not really. To be a caretaker leader / PM you need to have sufficient experience and authority to be seen as credible in the job, while having no interest yourself in doing it for the long term. That inevitably means an elder statesman. On the Tory benches, there are very few former senior ministers, partly because of Labour's 13 years in office but also because of the speed with which Cameron, Osborne and Hague left the Commons. There's only really Clarke and he's unsuitable because of the European question.

    But it would be much better if May were to be the caretaker PM if she were forced out or resigned as Con leader.

    FWIW, Cameron is 300/1 and Osborne is 200/1 (neither of whom are in the Lords but that could be changed easily enough); Oddschecker doesn't quote odds for Hague.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    Hope they can sort it out quicker than they currently propose.We have a disabled G daughter.The council have been great upto now sorting out my daughter's house.I guess they had time as it become increasing difficult to lift her as she grew older.Also my son in law is a strong bloke and could move her about safely.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JasonGroves1: Govt sources flatly deny @JewishChron claim that Priti Patel was asked to withhold details of secret Israeli meetings. The sack beckons
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Cyclefree said:

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    I am so sorry to hear this.

    Could you get your doctor to say that you are not fit enough to assist your wife during the day? Might that help?
    She already has said we need an o/h hoist. It's not so much to do with my fitness. It's just Lesleys condition makes repositioning difficult and no matter how fit the carer is there has to be two.

    The council's solution involves extra care visits but as the wife's spasms ate completely unpredictable what time are they required.

    I think my likely solution is hiring a hoist privately (£400 a month) but its just f*****ng frustrating.

    As some would say H&S gone mad when the safest solution is deemed unsafe and the alternatives far less safe.

    How could I put the liability for their solution back in their court???

    Can you phone for an ambulance if she falls out and you cannot help?

  • Cyclefree said:

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    I am so sorry to hear this.

    Could you get your doctor to say that you are not fit enough to assist your wife during the day? Might that help?
    She already has said we need an o/h hoist. It's not so much to do with my fitness. It's just Lesleys condition makes repositioning difficult and no matter how fit the carer is there has to be two.

    The council's solution involves extra care visits but as the wife's spasms ate completely unpredictable what time are they required.

    I think my likely solution is hiring a hoist privately (£400 a month) but its just f*****ng frustrating.

    As some would say H&S gone mad when the safest solution is deemed unsafe and the alternatives far less safe.

    How could I put the liability for their solution back in their court???
    They must have a duty of care
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    This is turning into such an extraordinary news week, perhaps as much so as the more obvious weeks following the referendum and recent GEs. So many stories that could dominate the news cycle for 3-4 days that are whizzing by barely noticed like clouds on the jet stream.

    The political sexual harassment storm resulting in a suspected suicide

    The revelation that the security triage after the Arena bombing meant a total of 3 paramedics attended the bomb site itself in the first hour - there are the makings of a long running justice campaign in this if the coroner does not get things spot on.

    The barely digested contents of the Paradise papers.

    I didn't quite get why a lower ranking cabinet minister was getting the attention she was until reading the last half hour before the line. The journalists had an inkling, do you think?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    Sandpit said:

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    That really doesn’t sound good. As suggested the other day, it’s probably time to get your MP involved now.
    Done that this morning he is in Kenya but his office are taking it up.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Forget the fantasy about Hague or Howard (or Clarke who'd be my choice for caretaker). The next leader will be an MP. And given the absolute Omnishambles in the cabinet I still think the Moggmeister has a decent chance by means of looking and sounding like a Tory, being a leaver and being a clean pair of hands.

    He's no experience of course. Which right now is an advantage

    Trouble is he looks and sounds like (and is) a Tory.
    That will not be a disadvantage when it comes to the vote amongst the Tory membership - a small band of ageing male dinosaurs who think the EU is the root of all evil and nothing good has happened since the 1950s.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Govt sources flatly deny @JewishChron claim that Priti Patel was asked to withhold details of secret Israeli meetings. The sack beckons

    If true end of Priti
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Cyclefree said:

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    I am so sorry to hear this.

    Could you get your doctor to say that you are not fit enough to assist your wife during the day? Might that help?
    She already has said we need an o/h hoist. It's not so much to do with my fitness. It's just Lesleys condition makes repositioning difficult and no matter how fit the carer is there has to be two.

    The council's solution involves extra care visits but as the wife's spasms ate completely unpredictable what time are they required.

    I think my likely solution is hiring a hoist privately (£400 a month) but its just f*****ng frustrating.

    As some would say H&S gone mad when the safest solution is deemed unsafe and the alternatives far less safe.

    How could I put the liability for their solution back in their court???
    Very sorry to hear of your plight. I have no experience of this but is there any way you can get a person on the phone and try a "more in sorrow than anger" approach to their humanity?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
    Not really. To be a caretaker leader / PM you need to have sufficient experience and authority to be seen as credible in the job, while having no interest yourself in doing it for the long term. That inevitably means an elder statesman. On the Tory benches, there are very few former senior ministers, partly because of Labour's 13 years in office but also because of the speed with which Cameron, Osborne and Hague left the Commons. There's only really Clarke and he's unsuitable because of the European question.

    But it would be much better if May were to be the caretaker PM if she were forced out or resigned as Con leader.

    FWIW, Cameron is 300/1 and Osborne is 200/1 (neither of whom are in the Lords but that could be changed easily enough); Oddschecker doesn't quote odds for Hague.
    Looking at years served, Jeremy Hunt really should be an obvious contender for the position.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Govt sources flatly deny @JewishChron claim that Priti Patel was asked to withhold details of secret Israeli meetings. The sack beckons

    I reckon they would say that either way, the stakes are too high
  • Jonathan said:

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
    Not really. To be a caretaker leader / PM you need to have sufficient experience and authority to be seen as credible in the job, while having no interest yourself in doing it for the long term. That inevitably means an elder statesman. On the Tory benches, there are very few former senior ministers, partly because of Labour's 13 years in office but also because of the speed with which Cameron, Osborne and Hague left the Commons. There's only really Clarke and he's unsuitable because of the European question.

    But it would be much better if May were to be the caretaker PM if she were forced out or resigned as Con leader.

    FWIW, Cameron is 300/1 and Osborne is 200/1 (neither of whom are in the Lords but that could be changed easily enough); Oddschecker doesn't quote odds for Hague.
    Looking at years served, Jeremy Hunt really should be an obvious contender for the position.
    *looks at Betfair account*

    *nods fervently*
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    This rumour that Priti was working under Theresa's instructions is amazing. If she's made to do the 'apologize and move on' thing, rather than be sacked, then I'll definitely smell a rat.

    I smell some SPADS not wanting to bother Tezza with this - as we know, she can't handle off the cuff, unexpected events which require an imaginative response.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851

    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Govt sources flatly deny @JewishChron claim that Priti Patel was asked to withhold details of secret Israeli meetings. The sack beckons

    If true end of Priti
    It's the end of Priti whatever.

    British aid for the IDF.....is she completely loopy?
  • Jonathan said:

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
    Not really. To be a caretaker leader / PM you need to have sufficient experience and authority to be seen as credible in the job, while having no interest yourself in doing it for the long term. That inevitably means an elder statesman. On the Tory benches, there are very few former senior ministers, partly because of Labour's 13 years in office but also because of the speed with which Cameron, Osborne and Hague left the Commons. There's only really Clarke and he's unsuitable because of the European question.

    But it would be much better if May were to be the caretaker PM if she were forced out or resigned as Con leader.

    FWIW, Cameron is 300/1 and Osborne is 200/1 (neither of whom are in the Lords but that could be changed easily enough); Oddschecker doesn't quote odds for Hague.
    Looking at years served, Jeremy Hunt really should be an obvious contender for the position.
    *looks at Betfair account*

    *nods fervently*
    Me too

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/07/04/jeremy-hunt-is-clearly-on-manoeuvres-and-hes-also-1001-to-be-next-tory-leader/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    @bigjohnowls Do you understand what is going on from their point of view?

    My instinct would be first to push for a firm date for the proper installation and then ask for a mitigation to get you to that point.
  • *looks at Betfair account*

    *nods fervently*

    Same here, although I can't help thinking that my big green on Michael Fallon might have to be written off.
  • Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Govt sources flatly deny @JewishChron claim that Priti Patel was asked to withhold details of secret Israeli meetings. The sack beckons

    You do wonder who the Jewish Chronicle's sources are, and what their motivations might be.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    Yorkcity said:

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    Hope they can sort it out quicker than they currently propose.We have a disabled G daughter.The council have been great upto now sorting out my daughter's house.I guess they had time as it become increasing difficult to lift her as she grew older.Also my son in law is a strong bloke and could move her about safely.
    Sorry to hear about your daughter but good the Council are doing their bit.

    I contacted the Council on 20th September. Wrote a letter to our OTs boss on same day. Escalated to overall boss in early October then to Director level 2 weeks ago.To my MP and Chair of Adult Care Committee today.
  • *looks at Betfair account*

    *nods fervently*

    Same here, although I can't help thinking that my big green on Michael Fallon might have to be written off.
    And my big green on Damian Green.
  • Jonathan said:

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
    Not really. To be a caretaker leader / PM you need to have sufficient experience and authority to be seen as credible in the job, while having no interest yourself in doing it for the long term. That inevitably means an elder statesman. On the Tory benches, there are very few former senior ministers, partly because of Labour's 13 years in office but also because of the speed with which Cameron, Osborne and Hague left the Commons. There's only really Clarke and he's unsuitable because of the European question.

    But it would be much better if May were to be the caretaker PM if she were forced out or resigned as Con leader.

    FWIW, Cameron is 300/1 and Osborne is 200/1 (neither of whom are in the Lords but that could be changed easily enough); Oddschecker doesn't quote odds for Hague.
    Looking at years served, Jeremy Hunt really should be an obvious contender for the position.
    Hunt is a dark horse contender for the permanent position. Tory contests are usually won by candidates chosen for who they are not rather than who they are. There are few, if any, 'Anyone But Hunt' MPs, whereas there'd be plenty who'd say that of Boris, or Leadsom, or JRM. Davis too has shown enough questionable judgement to have sizable question marks against his name.
  • Roger said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Govt sources flatly deny @JewishChron claim that Priti Patel was asked to withhold details of secret Israeli meetings. The sack beckons

    If true end of Priti
    It's the end of Priti whatever.

    British aid for the IDF.....is she completely loopy?
    Let's ask our next caller, Ken from London.
  • Jonathan said:

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
    Not really. To be a caretaker leader / PM you need to have sufficient experience and authority to be seen as credible in the job, while having no interest yourself in doing it for the long term. That inevitably means an elder statesman. On the Tory benches, there are very few former senior ministers, partly because of Labour's 13 years in office but also because of the speed with which Cameron, Osborne and Hague left the Commons. There's only really Clarke and he's unsuitable because of the European question.

    But it would be much better if May were to be the caretaker PM if she were forced out or resigned as Con leader.

    FWIW, Cameron is 300/1 and Osborne is 200/1 (neither of whom are in the Lords but that could be changed easily enough); Oddschecker doesn't quote odds for Hague.
    Looking at years served, Jeremy Hunt really should be an obvious contender for the position.
    Hunt is a dark horse contender for the permanent position. Tory contests are usually won by candidates chosen for who they are not rather than who they are. There are few, if any, 'Anyone But Hunt' MPs, whereas there'd be plenty who'd say that of Boris, or Leadsom, or JRM. Davis too has shown enough questionable judgement to have sizable question marks against his name.
    I am so green on Hunt it is scary!
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Very good, right now I suspect you could say the same about holidaying in No.10.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    FFS how do you convince the council that someone whose medical notes say she NEEDS an overhead hoist actually has to have one.

    They accept the fact and are putting up ceiling tracking at some point in next 12 weeks in the meantime the gantry overhead one is deemed a risk and they have taken it away..

    Why can't they see that not having it is a much bigger risk given her sole carer (me) cant operate a manual one single handedly.

    They seem to think that 2 properly trained council carers are required for the manual one at 10am and 8pm but during the day when she spasms and falls off her powerchair one untrained operative (me) is safe

    As I say FFS

    That really doesn’t sound good. As suggested the other day, it’s probably time to get your MP involved now.
    Done that this morning he is in Kenya but his office are taking it up.
    Best of luck, hopefully a call from the MP’s office to the relevant council manager will be a sufficient nudge, if only for the jobsworth who removed a vital piece of equipment without replacing it to return it to you until the permanent solution is installed.
  • Jonathan said:

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
    Not really. To be a caretaker leader / PM you need to have sufficient experience and authority to be seen as credible in the job, while having no interest yourself in doing it for the long term. That inevitably means an elder statesman. On the Tory benches, there are very few former senior ministers, partly because of Labour's 13 years in office but also because of the speed with which Cameron, Osborne and Hague left the Commons. There's only really Clarke and he's unsuitable because of the European question.

    But it would be much better if May were to be the caretaker PM if she were forced out or resigned as Con leader.

    FWIW, Cameron is 300/1 and Osborne is 200/1 (neither of whom are in the Lords but that could be changed easily enough); Oddschecker doesn't quote odds for Hague.
    Looking at years served, Jeremy Hunt really should be an obvious contender for the position.
    Hunt is a dark horse contender for the permanent position. Tory contests are usually won by candidates chosen for who they are not rather than who they are. There are few, if any, 'Anyone But Hunt' MPs, whereas there'd be plenty who'd say that of Boris, or Leadsom, or JRM. Davis too has shown enough questionable judgement to have sizable question marks against his name.
    Hunt could really do with 3-6 months in another department first.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555

    Jonathan said:

    If May does go over this, imminently, would that mean she actually departs very swiftly, or hang on for the leadership election?

    Normally it'd be the latter, but she clearly would be happier out of it. Yet, the seeming caretaker would be Green.

    The caretaker is whoever's fit for it. In many ways, it's an advantage to have someone mind the shop who cannot be PM in the long term: it means they don't become an alternative power base.

    That said, I still wouldn't pick Green. Someone in the Lords would be better.
    Which would reveal that the Tory Party is incapable of agreeing on an MP to fill the role even as a caretaker. They cannot form a coherent government and a new leader will not change that.
    Not really. To be a caretaker leader / PM you need to have sufficient experience and authority to be seen as credible in the job, while having no interest yourself in doing it for the long term. That inevitably means an elder statesman. On the Tory benches, there are very few former senior ministers, partly because of Labour's 13 years in office but also because of the speed with which Cameron, Osborne and Hague left the Commons. There's only really Clarke and he's unsuitable because of the European question.

    But it would be much better if May were to be the caretaker PM if she were forced out or resigned as Con leader.

    FWIW, Cameron is 300/1 and Osborne is 200/1 (neither of whom are in the Lords but that could be changed easily enough); Oddschecker doesn't quote odds for Hague.
    Looking at years served, Jeremy Hunt really should be an obvious contender for the position.
    Hunt is a dark horse contender for the permanent position. Tory contests are usually won by candidates chosen for who they are not rather than who they are. There are few, if any, 'Anyone But Hunt' MPs, whereas there'd be plenty who'd say that of Boris, or Leadsom, or JRM. Davis too has shown enough questionable judgement to have sizable question marks against his name.
    Hunt is vanilla to John Major's grey. Exactly the kind of boring, sensible, pragmatic, centrist that doesn't cut in today's world. Hunt's best bet is to get it as caretaker and stick around.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Scott_P said:

    @JasonGroves1: Govt sources flatly deny @JewishChron claim that Priti Patel was asked to withhold details of secret Israeli meetings. The sack beckons

    If true end of Priti
    They have to deny it. The alternative is a PM resignation event: "hands up, I told the SoS to lie about controversial meetings, but you got me..." isn't really a statement you can carry on from. I wonder how deniable the JC's sources are, and whether we will get an on the record denial or just "government sources" briefing unofficially plus official obfuscation.
This discussion has been closed.