A continent is one of several very large landmasses of the world.
"Land mass" refers to the total surface area of the land of a geographical region or country (which may include discontinuous pieces of land such as islands). It is written as two words to distinguish it from the usage "landmass", the contiguous area of land surrounded by ocean.
A continent is a large solid area of land.
FOAK, FOAK, FOAK, Britannica.
The British Isles are islands off the coast of the continent of Europe. They are not part of Europe. Imperfect recollections of the theory of plate tectonics have no bearing on this fact, in the same way that we have not discarded the concept of solid objects because we now know they are collections of little things like atoms and so on.
None of this is really relevant or helpful to our political choices.
Really? If we infilled and tarmaced over the English Channel all the way from Dover to the Western approaches, that would not register as a political event?
@DPJHodges: So to protect a British national our foreign secretary now has to convince Iran he didn't know what he was talking about. Great job Boris.
Boris is an idiot - but he is also the one the remainer's fear most and who are desperately trying to get him sacked and for that reason I do not see it happening.
They have been working on this for a year, and the opener was Queen has £3k indirectly invested in BrightHouse (but voluntarily pays tax she doesn't have to). They are going to flog every ounce out of it.
I know I was absolutely shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that a racing driver who first legged it to Switzerland then Monaco to minimize his tax bill, erhh minimizes his tax bill...
There are serious question raised, but the nonsense about the Queen is not a scandal in anyway.
The IoM duty laws are for business use only of the jet (to reclaim VAT). I do not get why he received a full refund, it should have been 2/3rds only in the first place, and the flight log should record whether the plane has in fact been used for business 2/3rds of the time subsequently.
Corbyn will be spoilt for choice at tomorrow's PMQ's
He went last week with Isle of man private registered jets.I guess must have been told about upcoming events to BB even released.
It is clear that the Guardian and or the BBC tipped him off - those of such virtue who use tax havens themselves as does John McDonnell with his pension
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
Part of Europe but not part of the Continent?
Eh? "The label" does not say that non-continental European countries are to be treated differently to continental European countries.
Is Britain part of the Continent of Europe?
If not then it is not part of Europe.
Geologically, yes. As is Iceland.
How about politically?
Remember - Continent cut off by fog in the Channel.
LOL. Actually, should have been half of Iceland, IIRC.
We’ve spent most of our history ‘engaged’ with Europe. Often, of course, in wars! In which we were involved because we thought, rightly or wrongly, that it was in our interest to be so.
The exception is, and I stand to be corrected, about 1820-1914. And even then Queen Victoria spent much of her time marrying off her daughters, once they were old enough, into European aristocracy.
Nah, Britain was still closely involved in European affairs; it just wasn't part of any formal alliance system for most of that time. Who did Bismarck say the pivotal person was at the Congress of Berlin?
The Congress of Berlin was about the declining Turkish, which Britain at the time viewed with concern as it was suspicious of Russian meddling which could affect British trade routes to India and the Far east. The Congress was about about Europe. It is quite commonly argued that British foreign policy in the 19th century was to avoid becoming entangled in continental European disputes.
I think there's some mixing of cause and effect there. The main reason that Britain wasn't heavily involved in 'continental European disputes' through much of the 19th century was because there weren't any. There were a few local wars (Britain even became involved in one - also related to the Turkish question), but none threatened to degenerate into a general war and, as such, the European alliance system was probably at the weakest, with the possible exception of the 1920s, that it's been in centuries. But Britain was still heavily involved with Europe. One reason given in the early 20th century as to why a new war couldn't break out was the interdependence on trade. That was, of course, wrong but the fact that it was advanced at all is a measure of how trade had grown over the previous 100 years.
we announce at the end of this year that we’re breaking off the talks and start preparing for an exit to WTO terms on 29th March 2019.
The Brexiteers would then need to explain why we walked away from "the easiest trade talks in history"
We can only have talks if both sides turn up and wish to discuss trade. When one side only wants to talk about money then the talks about trade don’t happen, so we spend the remaining time until the day we leave preparing for it.
Jesus fucking Christ you lot are amazing.
Rules of the game: talk money, then talk trade.
If we say "easiest trade talks in history" then I would effing well hope that whoever said that (if they said it) would have known that to get to those easiest trade talks, there would have to be the money thing solved first.
Throwing a ball up in the air and catching it at the summit of Everest is very easy....
Yes, but the rules of the game are constantly being changed by the other side, as they have realised there’s going to be a massive hole in their budget when we leave. So they’ve decided instead to blackmail us into paying a large bill for which there’s no legal basis, in exchange for even starting to discuss trade.
Well do you know what, we Brits don’t like being blackmailed, so rather than watching the clock running down we’re going to be proactive about preparing to leave instead.
Nobody likes being blackmailed, that's not something we can claim as part of our national character...
If some high-profile Leavers made claims about how easy the trade talks were going to be based on an entirely unrealistic projection of how the other side were going to act - that's their mistake.
Indeed, maybe we were naïve to think that the EU would actually want to negotiate a trade deal, but they don’t so life goes on and we prepare to leave without one.
I think you underestimate how much the Remainers on here are enjoying this period of self loathing - it's like some sort of kale intestine cleanse where they can evacuate all those horrid unfashionable lumps of white man's guilt that they are carrying around.
These are golden era for them - they've never had it so virtuously whingy.
Weirdly, I beginning to think Brexit might be a positive overall. We are obviously going to crash out. Equally obviously we'll be back in pretty quickly. We'll lose a lot in the process. But it will finally get leaving the EU off the agenda forever. This would mean the Tories could go back to being a sane right of centre party, which is something the country needs.
Why would the EU take us back?
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
I think that it cannot happen until we ourselves recognise that we ARE part of Europe rather than the plucky British bulldog standing alone on the white cliffs of history against the travails of Johnny Foreigner.
we announce at the end of this year that we’re breaking off the talks and start preparing for an exit to WTO terms on 29th March 2019.
The Brexiteers would then need to explain why we walked away from "the easiest trade talks in history"
We can only have talks if both sides turn up and wish to discuss trade. When one side only wants to talk about money then the talks about trade don’t happen, so we spend the remaining time until the day we leave preparing for it.
Jesus fucking Christ you lot are amazing.
Rules of the game: talk money, then talk trade.
If we say "easiest trade talks in history" then I would effing well hope that whoever said that (if they said it) would have known that to get to those easiest trade talks, there would have to be the money thing solved first.
Throwing a ball up in the air and catching it at the summit of Everest is very easy....
Yes, but the rules of the game are constantly being changed by the other side, as they have realised there’s going to be a massive hole in their budget when we leave. So they’ve decided instead to blackmail us into paying a large bill for which there’s no legal basis, in exchange for even starting to discuss trade.
Well do you know what, we Brits don’t like being blackmailed, so rather than watching the clock running down we’re going to be proactive about preparing to leave instead.
Nobody likes being blackmailed, that's not something we can claim as part of our national character...
If some high-profile Leavers made claims about how easy the trade talks were going to be based on an entirely unrealistic projection of how the other side were going to act - that's their mistake.
Indeed, maybe we were naïve to think that the EU would actually want to negotiate a trade deal, but they don’t so life goes on and we prepare to leave without one.
I think you underestimate how much the Remainers on here are enjoying this period of self loathing - it's like some sort of kale intestine cleanse where they can evacuate all those horrid unfashionable lumps of white man's guilt that they are carrying around.
These are golden era for them - they've never had it so virtuously whingy.
@nickeardleybbc: UK gov't: 58 sector-by-sector Brexit impact assessments do not exist . There is a "wide mix" of analysis
These are the papers that Davis said were done, and that May had not read...
This is a bit like the Scottish Govt's legal advice on an Independent Scotland remaining in the EU
The present political climate is a complete shambles and undoubtedly Pritel and Boris should have resigned and there has to be a point when TM moves to conduct a proper shuffle.
The only thing that is keeping the conservative party in place is the shambles that is labour under Corbyn.
I find it amazing that labour are not 10-15% ahead in the polls.
It is looking increasinly likely none of the favourites for TM successor will be in the frame
The Tory membership are clearly going to vote for a Leaver to succeed May as PM, it will probably end up being David Davis.
He would then be succeeded as Tory leader by Jacob Rees Mogg if and when the Tories go into opposition.
@nickeardleybbc: UK gov't: 58 sector-by-sector Brexit impact assessments do not exist . There is a "wide mix" of analysis
These are the papers that Davis said were done, and that May had not read...
This is a bit like the Scottish Govt's legal advice on an Independent Scotland remaining in the EU
The present political climate is a complete shambles and undoubtedly Pritel and Boris should have resigned and there has to be a point when TM moves to conduct a proper shuffle.
The only thing that is keeping the conservative party in place is the shambles that is labour under Corbyn.
I find it amazing that labour are not 10-15% ahead in the polls.
It is looking increasinly likely none of the favourites for TM successor will be in the frame
The Tory membership are clearly going to vote for a Leaver to succeed May as PM, it will probably end up being David Davis.
He would then be succeeded as Tory leader by Jacob Rees Mogg if and when the Tories go into opposition.
I hope not - new blood is needed - Boris and Pritel have blown it now and apart from Amber Rudd of the old guard I do not see any other credible candidate at present
So Sarah Olney quit working for Cable to dedicate her time to winning back her seat - but no-one told Richmond Lib Dems, who don’t want her back after she was the only LD in the country to lose their seat to a Tory in this year’s election. https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
Gordon Brown can't catch a break can he...his memoirs are out today...I think sales might be rather slow.
I see he said Corbyn refused to share a platform with Blair to promote Remain, though Brown also reveals he would not agree to Cameron's plan for former PMs to support Remain outside Downing Street.
Weirdly, I beginning to think Brexit might be a positive overall. We are obviously going to crash out. Equally obviously we'll be back in pretty quickly. We'll lose a lot in the process. But it will finally get leaving the EU off the agenda forever. This would mean the Tories could go back to being a sane right of centre party, which is something the country needs.
Why would the EU take us back?
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
I think that it cannot happen until we ourselves recognise that we ARE part of Europe rather than the plucky British bulldog standing alone on the white cliffs of history against the travails of Johnny Foreigner.
But are the British Isles part of the Continent?
Yes.
Would you like to articulate all the logical steps which start with that sketch map and finish with "therefore the British Isles are part of the Continent?"
So Sarah Olney quit working for Cable to dedicate her time to winning back her seat - but no-one told Richmond Lib Dems, who don’t want her back after she was the only LD in the country to lose their seat to a Tory in this year’s election. https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
One of Guido's lot claims she's being investigated for expenses. I was under the impression all of that was done and dusted?
So Sarah Olney quit working for Cable to dedicate her time to winning back her seat - but no-one told Richmond Lib Dems, who don’t want her back after she was the only LD in the country to lose their seat to a Tory in this year’s election. https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
I am not aware of many LDs who were upset to see her lose her seat earlier this year.
They have been working on this for a year, and the opener was Queen has £3k indirectly invested in BrightHouse (but voluntarily pays tax she doesn't have to). They are going to flog every ounce out of it.
I know I was absolutely shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that a racing driver who first legged it to Switzerland then Monaco to minimize his tax bill, erhh minimizes his tax bill...
There are serious question raised, but the nonsense about the Queen is not a scandal in anyway.
Worth bearing in mind if betting on SPOTY though. Mo's year this time? The Beeb would be delighted to have a winner from a sport they still broadcast.
we announce at the end of this year that we’re breaking off the talks and start preparing for an exit to WTO terms on 29th March 2019.
The Brexiteers would then need to explain why we walked away from "the easiest trade talks in history"
We can only have talks if both sides turn up and wish to discuss trade. When one side only wants to talk about money then the talks about trade don’t happen, so we spend the remaining time until the day we leave preparing for it.
Jesus fucking Christ you lot are amazing.
Rules of the game: talk money, then talk trade.
If we say "easiest trade talks in history" then I would effing well hope that whoever said that (if they said it) would have known that to get to those easiest trade talks, there would have to be the money thing solved first.
Throwing a ball up in the air and catching it at the summit of Everest is very easy....
Yes, but the rules of the game are constantly being changed by the other side, as they have realised there’s going to be a massive hole in their budget when we leave. So they’ve decided instead to blackmail us into paying a large bill for which there’s no legal basis, in exchange for even starting to discuss trade.
Well do you know what, we Brits don’t like being blackmailed, so rather than watching the clock running down we’re going to be proactive about preparing to leave instead.
Nobody likes being blackmailed, that's not something we can claim as part of our national character...
If act - that's their mistake.
Indeed, maybe we were naïve to think that the EU would actually want to negotiate a trade deal, but they don’t so life goes on and we prepare to leave without one.
I think you underestimate how much the Remainers on here are enjoying this period of self loathing - it's like some sort of kale intestine cleanse where they can evacuate all those horrid unfashionable lumps of white man's guilt that they are carrying around.
These are golden era for them - they've never had it so virtuously whingy.
This is what you voted for. Own it and enjoy it.
I am enjoying it - and we haven't even left yet..
Stop moaning then. For those who enjoy seeing the UK's international standing diminish and standards of living fall the next few years are going to be one hell of a joy-ride. Buckle up!
@estwebber: Brexit Minister Steven Baker says officials will be "distracted" from their normal jobs by putting together the Brexit documents
@RJonesUX: I'm gonna try that: "I can't post a cheque for my mortgage, it would distract me from arguing about why I should pay mortgage" twitter.com/GuardianHeathe…
It's all a little febrile in politics at the moment. The posh men are crying over Brexit and the posh women are continuing to agonise over sexual harassment and the years of hurt.
Common sense will take a while to percolate back.
Labour will take over in a year or two and blame our descent into Venezuela on Brexit. Lady Nugee will become PM, blame it on the Patriarchy, then rinse and repeat.
Roll up the map of logic, it will not be needed these ten years.
So Sarah Olney quit working for Cable to dedicate her time to winning back her seat - but no-one told Richmond Lib Dems, who don’t want her back after she was the only LD in the country to lose their seat to a Tory in this year’s election. https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
I am not aware of many LDs who were upset to see her lose her seat earlier this year.
So Sarah Olney quit working for Cable to dedicate her time to winning back her seat - but no-one told Richmond Lib Dems, who don’t want her back after she was the only LD in the country to lose their seat to a Tory in this year’s election. https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
One of Guido's lot claims she's being investigated for expenses. I was under the impression all of that was done and dusted?
So Sarah Olney quit working for Cable to dedicate her time to winning back her seat - but no-one told Richmond Lib Dems, who don’t want her back after she was the only LD in the country to lose their seat to a Tory in this year’s election. https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
One of Guido's lot claims she's being investigated for expenses. I was under the impression all of that was done and dusted?
As I understand it she was working full time as Chief of Staff. She has now gone part time as a consultant to the party and to Vince as its leader. This gives her more time to work in Richmond.
So Sarah Olney quit working for Cable to dedicate her time to winning back her seat - but no-one told Richmond Lib Dems, who don’t want her back after she was the only LD in the country to lose their seat to a Tory in this year’s election. https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
One of Guido's lot claims she's being investigated for expenses. I was under the impression all of that was done and dusted?
It also means a by-election in Alyn and Deeside, which ought to be fairly safe for Labour although at the last two UK GEs (same boundaries I think, much higher turnout), Labour's majority was 8.1% and 11.7%. With Welsh Labour's record in Cardiff, that's not rock-solid - though the influence of UK matters will probably mean it is this time.
Shame that th EU refused to negotiate before Article 50 then, isn't it?
It is.
If the EU really wanted us to stay, they could take a long hard look at themselves too. But they've chosen not to.
They had better hope to goodness the UK is smashed completely by Brexit. Because if in ten years time we start to come back and it doesn't look like such a mistake (either economically or politically) then I do wonder how many other countries might decide it's worth the risk.
They have been working on this for a year, and the opener was Queen has £3k indirectly invested in BrightHouse (but voluntarily pays tax she doesn't have to). They are going to flog every ounce out of it.
I know I was absolutely shocked, shocked I tell you, to find that a racing driver who first legged it to Switzerland then Monaco to minimize his tax bill, erhh minimizes his tax bill...
There are serious question raised, but the nonsense about the Queen is not a scandal in anyway.
The IoM duty laws are for business use only of the jet (to reclaim VAT). I do not get why he received a full refund, it should have been 2/3rds only in the first place, and the flight log should record whether the plane has in fact been used for business 2/3rds of the time subsequently.
That's exactly the point - the IOM forms (seen on Panorama) actually had the usage on them. It seems as though the IOM administration is complicit in some rather dodgy VAT claims.
With all the news that's available, the Guardian's lead story is that previous Dukes of Westminster set up various trusts, none of which seem to have done anything controversial.
Weirdly, I beginning to think Brexit might be a positive overall. We are obviously going to crash out. Equally obviously we'll be back in pretty quickly. We'll lose a lot in the process. But it will finally get leaving the EU off the agenda forever. This would mean the Tories could go back to being a sane right of centre party, which is something the country needs.
Why would the EU take us back?
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
I think that it cannot happen until we ourselves recognise that we ARE part of Europe rather than the plucky British bulldog standing alone on the white cliffs of history against the travails of Johnny Foreigner.
But are the British Isles part of the Continent?
Yes.
Would you like to articulate all the logical steps which start with that sketch map and finish with "therefore the British Isles are part of the Continent?"
With all the news that's available, the Guardian's lead story is that previous Dukes of Westminster set up various trusts, none of which seem to have done anything controversial.
At this time, feel for the IT support people at Guardian Towers...
With all the news that's available, the Guardian's lead story is that previous Dukes of Westminster set up various trusts, none of which seem to have done anything controversial.
I think we're in the throwing-spaghetti-at-the wall/excrement-at-the-fan and seeing what sticks phase...
With all the news that's available, the Guardian's lead story is that previous Dukes of Westminster set up various trusts, none of which seem to have done anything controversial.
We have also had the scandalous story of a Peer whose parents set up a trust 60 years ago, which he received a one off payment 25 years ago and paid tax.
There are legitimate very dodgy things going on, but it does seem like any name they recognize it is instantly right that is definitely a story...again it is like expenses...look look Cameron claimed for legitimate maintenance, people claiming for fake offices not very interesting...
@matt_dathan: Brexit minister Steve Baker asks Labour: "WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON?" in the latest chapter of the tedious Commons row on the impact assessments
I would have responded:
"I am on the side of Parliament that wishes to hold the government to account"
Alistair Burt from the government front bench, trying to defend Patel (and where is she?) and failing and flailing. For goodness sake, trying to get the UK to give money to the IDF, this just gets worse.
"An ex-Welsh Labour minister who faced a party investigation into allegations about his personal conduct has taken his own life, BBC Wales understands."
Weirdly, I beginning to think Brexit might be a positive overall. We are obviously going to crash out. Equally obviously we'll be back in pretty quickly. We'll lose a lot in the process. But it will finally get leaving the EU off the agenda forever. This would mean the Tories could go back to being a sane right of centre party, which is something the country needs.
Why would the EU take us back?
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
I think that it cannot happen until we ourselves recognise that we ARE part of Europe rather than the plucky British bulldog standing alone on the white cliffs of history against the travails of Johnny Foreigner.
But are the British Isles part of the Continent?
Yes.
Would you like to articulate all the logical steps which start with that sketch map and finish with "therefore the British Isles are part of the Continent?"
Ok.
It is all the same chunk of rock. That is what the map shows.
Weirdly, I beginning to think Brexit might be a positive overall. We are obviously going to crash out. Equally obviously we'll be back in pretty quickly. We'll lose a lot in the process. But it will finally get leaving the EU off the agenda forever. This would mean the Tories could go back to being a sane right of centre party, which is something the country needs.
Why would the EU take us back?
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
I think that it cannot happen until we ourselves recognise that we ARE part of Europe rather than the plucky British bulldog standing alone on the white cliffs of history against the travails of Johnny Foreigner.
But are the British Isles part of the Continent?
Yes.
Would you like to articulate all the logical steps which start with that sketch map and finish with "therefore the British Isles are part of the Continent?"
None so blind....
So: Would you like to articulate all the logical steps which start with that sketch map and finish with "therefore the British Isles are part of the Continent?"
Weirdly, I beginning to think Brexit might be a positive overall. We are obviously going to crash out. Equally obviously we'll be back in pretty quickly. We'll lose a lot in the process. But it will finally get leaving the EU off the agenda forever. This would mean the Tories could go back to being a sane right of centre party, which is something the country needs.
Why would the EU take us back?
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
I think that it cannot happen until we ourselves recognise that we ARE part of Europe rather than the plucky British bulldog standing alone on the white cliffs of history against the travails of Johnny Foreigner.
Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are all part of Europe. They just happen to be in EFTA not the EU.
Indeed most of Russia is in Europe but it is in neither.
most??
2/3 of Russia is in Europe and 1/3 in Asia.
Reference.com says "Russia is the largest country in the world based on area and it is the ninth largest country based on population. About 25 percent of Russia is located in Europe, covering approximately 1,528,560 square miles". Wikipedia says "The other, much larger part of the country, situated to the East, is considered to be part of Asia."
So Sarah Olney quit working for Cable to dedicate her time to winning back her seat - but no-one told Richmond Lib Dems, who don’t want her back after she was the only LD in the country to lose their seat to a Tory in this year’s election. https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
One of Guido's lot claims she's being investigated for expenses. I was under the impression all of that was done and dusted?
So Sarah Olney quit working for Cable to dedicate her time to winning back her seat - but no-one told Richmond Lib Dems, who don’t want her back after she was the only LD in the country to lose their seat to a Tory in this year’s election. https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
One of Guido's lot claims she's being investigated for expenses. I was under the impression all of that was done and dusted?
There are legitimate very dodgy things going on, but it does seem like any name they recognize it is instantly right that is definitely a story...again it is like expenses...look look Cameron claimed for legitimate maintenance, people claiming for fake offices not very interesting...
Given that the BBC is prefacing virtually every statement they make with words along the line of "we must stress they haven't done anything illegal" this is rapidly turning into a very boring story for the UK, if not other countries, much like the way the Panama Papers did.
How far up shit creek ( a creek of mostly his own shit) must Boris be if he needs Liam Fix to come up with an exculpation this morning? I'd hope that might give Johnson pause for thought, but a hope destined to be dashed I fear.
Boris can do as he wishes. May has made clear he is unsackable. The same applies to Priti Patel. This is the worst government in modern British history. The Tories may well win the next general election. If they don't Jeremy Corbyn will be Prime Minister. You are better off out of it. Pray for your English cousins!
I now don't think they will win the next election. They're now in a more perilous state than Major's was in 1996. After the Patel incident and the latest of the Boris clangers without a sacking on the horizon there can only be the cultists among the Tory supporters (see Charles's earlier post) who are still on board.
The bulk of remaining Tory supporters are there I am sure for the same reason that the Tories are still 40%+ in the polls. Its an anti-Corbyn vote, not a pro-May vote. People will follow May despite her being totally out of her depth, because the alternative would be to acknowledge the idea of a Marxist supporter of Hezbollah as PM of the UK.
If the next general election was JRM v Corbyn I expect both parties would still be around 40%, politics now is so polarised.
Indeed if Corbyn gets enough seats to form a government next time JRM may well become Leader of the Opposition.
British politics has not been this divided since Thatcher v Foot in the early 1980s (of course then there was at least the centrist SDP alternative, the LDs are a shadow of what they were).
The SDP was only half - and the weaker half - of the Alliance!
Weirdly, I beginning to think Brexit might be a positive overall. We are obviously going to crash out. Equally obviously we'll be back in pretty quickly. We'll lose a lot in the process. But it will finally get leaving the EU off the agenda forever. This would mean the Tories could go back to being a sane right of centre party, which is something the country needs.
Why would the EU take us back?
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
I think that it cannot happen until we ourselves recognise that we ARE part of Europe rather than the plucky British bulldog standing alone on the white cliffs of history against the travails of Johnny Foreigner.
Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are all part of Europe. They just happen to be in EFTA not the EU.
Indeed most of Russia is in Europe but it is in neither.
most??
2/3 of Russia is in Europe and 1/3 in Asia.
Reference.com says "Russia is the largest country in the world based on area and it is the ninth largest country based on population. About 25 percent of Russia is located in Europe, covering approximately 1,528,560 square miles". Wikipedia says "The other, much larger part of the country, situated to the East, is considered to be part of Asia."
Perhaps 2/3 of Russian people are in Europe though.
With all the news that's available, the Guardian's lead story is that previous Dukes of Westminster set up various trusts, none of which seem to have done anything controversial.
Like Corbyn, the Guardian would prefer to bash the monarchy and aristocracy as it gives them a warm, fuzzy Fabian feeling.
With all the news that's available, the Guardian's lead story is that previous Dukes of Westminster set up various trusts, none of which seem to have done anything controversial.
We have also had the scandalous story of a Peer whose parents set up a trust 60 years ago, which he received a one off payment 25 years ago and paid tax.
There are legitimate very dodgy things going on, but it does seem like any name they recognize it is instantly right that is definitely a story...again it is like expenses...look look Cameron claimed for legitimate maintenance, people claiming for fake offices not very interesting...
How much tax does Amazon pay? How much tax do Google pay? How about Apple?
How about The Guardian, for that matter. I seem to remember an extremely dodgy Cayman Islands shell company they used to avoid paying a penny in corporation tax a few years ago, that then editor Alan Rushbridger justified on the basis that it was "competely legal" to do so...
I wonder how many of The Guardian's journalists have set up service companies to minimise their tax burdens?
Theresa May should turn a huge problem into an opportunity, and do a major reshuffle. Boris, Patel, Green, Leadsom and McLoughlin out, maybe a couple more. That would free up some very useful space for promotions, and now is a time when the potential troublemakers are weak.
It also means a by-election in Alyn and Deeside, which ought to be fairly safe for Labour although at the last two UK GEs (same boundaries I think, much higher turnout), Labour's majority was 8.1% and 11.7%. With Welsh Labour's record in Cardiff, that's not rock-solid - though the influence of UK matters will probably mean it is this time.
I don't think Labour are going to lose any by-elections in the current climate.
With all the news that's available, the Guardian's lead story is that previous Dukes of Westminster set up various trusts, none of which seem to have done anything controversial.
We have also had the scandalous story of a Peer whose parents set up a trust 60 years ago, which he received a one off payment 25 years ago and paid tax.
There are legitimate very dodgy things going on, but it does seem like any name they recognize it is instantly right that is definitely a story...again it is like expenses...look look Cameron claimed for legitimate maintenance, people claiming for fake offices not very interesting...
No doubt you can quibble about the details but the overall impact of the Paradise Papers story will be to reinforce the impression that the rich don't play by the same rules as the rest of us and are not paying their fair share.
And the political beneficiary will be Jeremy Corbyn.
With all the news that's available, the Guardian's lead story is that previous Dukes of Westminster set up various trusts, none of which seem to have done anything controversial.
We have also had the scandalous story of a Peer whose parents set up a trust 60 years ago, which he received a one off payment 25 years ago and paid tax.
There are legitimate very dodgy things going on, but it does seem like any name they recognize it is instantly right that is definitely a story...again it is like expenses...look look Cameron claimed for legitimate maintenance, people claiming for fake offices not very interesting...
No doubt you can quibble about the details but the overall impact of the Paradise Papers story will be to reinforce the impression that the rich don't play by the same rules as the rest of us and are not paying their fair share.
And the political beneficiary will be Jeremy Corbyn.
Well there's a surprise. I can't imagine that the Guardian and the BBC have thought it through like that.
Weirdly, I beginning to think Brexit might be a positive overall. We are obviously going to crash out. Equally obviously we'll be back in pretty quickly. We'll lose a lot in the process. But it will finally get leaving the EU off the agenda forever. This would mean the Tories could go back to being a sane right of centre party, which is something the country needs.
Why would the EU take us back?
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
I think that it cannot happen until we ourselves recognise that we ARE part of Europe rather than the plucky British bulldog standing alone on the white cliffs of history against the travails of Johnny Foreigner.
Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are all part of Europe. They just happen to be in EFTA not the EU.
Indeed most of Russia is in Europe but it is in neither.
most??
2/3 of Russia is in Europe and 1/3 in Asia.
Reference.com says "Russia is the largest country in the world based on area and it is the ninth largest country based on population. About 25 percent of Russia is located in Europe, covering approximately 1,528,560 square miles". Wikipedia says "The other, much larger part of the country, situated to the East, is considered to be part of Asia."
The batty thing about the Wegener fanboys' argument is that Europe must extend east as far as Japan and the sea of Okhotsk at the far end of the Eurasian plate, because there is no Europe/Asia divide except an arbitrary line drawn by those xenophobic hooligans the Greeks to help them classify and despise barbarians, whereas the English Channel is an actual physical thing.
Because there are two strands of conservatism - the political and the economic.
At present they are in conflict while for the last 40 years they haven't been.
I have confidence in the ability of our country folk to reinvent themselves, but it is a change which involves risk.
But they voted to take that risk because they saw the long term future as being brighter outside the EU.
If you are not willing to compromise on the economic risk to achieve the political objectives perhaps you are not a complete match for the conservatives? If that's the case then you need to figure out where you sit on the spectrum of activist - member - supporter - voter - nothing. It doesn't have to be the same place throughout your life (I started as a member, moved to supporter and now oscillate between supporter and voter)
Thanks Charles, my view is that the Tory party should always be championing sound money, pro business, free trade, low tax policies. If it doesn't, then it really shouldn't exist.
Hard/WTO Brexit is the antithesis of all that, instead of a cabinet of Churchills arguing against the prevailing mood we've got a cabinet of Lord Halifaxes appeasing the Leadbangers.
I'm going to keep on articulating those views, hoping sanity prevails, but I find it depressing so many in the Tory party are cheering the dismantling of one of Mrs Thatcher's finest policies, something in all likelihood makes someone like Jeremy Corbyn PM.
A disorderly Brexit will be damaging for the Tory party at the next general election and maybe for longer.
The Tories were the party of monarchy, the Anglican Church and sovereignty and Empire and the landed classes long before they were the party of free trade and merchants and business, that was the Whigs (and their successors the Liberals).
The Tories only became the party of the industrial and merchant classes when the Labour Party replaced the Liberals as their main opponents, indeed some Tories like Disraeli and Joseph Chamberlain were outright protectionist at times.
But Joseph Chamberlain was a Liberal Unionist and had been a Radical.
It's the European Union. We are part of Europe. Read the label.
Part of Europe but not part of the Continent?
Eh? "The label" does not say that non-continental European countries are to be treated differently to continental European countries.
Is Britain part of the Continent of Europe?
If not then it is not part of Europe.
Geologically, yes. As is Iceland.
How about politically?
Remember - Continent cut off by fog in the Channel.
LOL. Actually, should have been half of Iceland, IIRC.
We’ve spent most of our history ‘engaged’ with Europe. Often, of course, in wars! In which we were involved because we thought, rightly or wrongly, that it was in our interest to be so.
The exception is, and I stand to be corrected, about 1820-1914. And even then Queen Victoria spent much of her time marrying off her daughters, once they were old enough, into European aristocracy.
Nah
The .
I think there's some mixing of cause and effect there. The main reason that Britain wasn't heavily involved in 'continental European disputes' through much of the 19th century was because there weren't any. There were a few local wars (Britain even became involved in one - also related to the Turkish question), but none threatened to degenerate into a general war and, as such, the European alliance system was probably at the weakest, with the possible exception of the 1920s, that it's been in centuries. But Britain was still heavily involved with Europe. One reason given in the early 20th century as to why a new war couldn't break out was the interdependence on trade. That was, of course, wrong but the fact that it was advanced at all is a measure of how trade had grown over the previous 100 years.
Largely because the Congress of Vienna in 1815 settled matters for at least 50 years. Europe only started to get more complex in the 1870s post German and Italian unification, and once the Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires started to seriously fray.
The UK's national interest (since at least the 17th Century, and probably before in my view) has been to preserve the balance of power on continental Europe so it can pursue a global trading agenda, as well as a European one.
How far up shit creek ( a creek of mostly his own shit) must Boris be if he needs Liam Fix to come up with an exculpation this morning? I'd hope that might give Johnson pause for thought, but a hope destined to be dashed I fear.
Boris can do as he wishes. May has made clear he is unsackable. The same applies to Priti Patel. This is the worst government in modern British history. The Tories may well win the next general election. If they don't Jeremy Corbyn will be Prime Minister. You are better off out of it. Pray for your English cousins!
I now don't think they will win the next election. They're now in a more perilous state than Major's was in 1996. After the Patel incident and the latest of the Boris clangers without a sacking on the horizon there can only be the cultists among the Tory supporters (see Charles's earlier post) who are still on board.
I want neither the Tories nor Corbyn’s Labour.
I think there are a lot of us who feel like that. But like it or not we're going to be landed with one or the other. Up till a month or so ago I'd have abstained (voted Lib Dem or Green) marginally hoping May would get in because I don't trust Corbyn's or his team.
Now I'm of the opinion that however crap they turn out to be they couldn't be worse.
Oh, they could. They have ideas and enthusiasm for one thing.
For all the ineptitude within the current cabinet, it can and is getting on with the day job effectively (indeed, one side effect of the Brexit focus is that the government isn't reorganising the NHS or education again).
And they'd spend like never before. Never forget - every Labour government always runs out of money; the only question is how long it takes.
No Tory government has handed over a Budget Surplus to Labour. Labour ,in contrast - has done so - eg 1970.
Theresa May should turn a huge problem into an opportunity, and do a major reshuffle. Boris, Patel, Green, Leadsom and McLoughlin out, maybe a couple more. That would free up some very useful space for promotions, and now is a time when the potential troublemakers are weak.
That's kind of the point. The job is all she has. It can't be fun. Her legacy will be poisonous whatever happens. She could go hillwalking with her husband and be much happier. And serve the Nation in doing so.
How far up shit creek ( a creek of mostly his own shit) must Boris be if he needs Liam Fix to come up with an exculpation this morning? I'd hope that might give Johnson pause for thought, but a hope destined to be dashed I fear.
Boris can do as he wishes. May has made clear he is unsackable. The same applies to Priti Patel. This is the worst government in modern British history. The Tories may well win the next general election. If they don't Jeremy Corbyn will be Prime Minister. You are better off out of it. Pray for your English cousins!
I now don't think they will win the next election. They're now in a more perilous state than Major's was in 1996. After the Patel incident and the latest of the Boris clangers without a sacking on the horizon there can only be the cultists among the Tory supporters (see Charles's earlier post) who are still on board.
I want neither the Tories nor Corbyn’s Labour.
I think there are a lot of us who feel like that. But like it or not we're going to be landed with one or the other. Up till a month or so ago I'd have abstained (voted Lib Dem or Green) marginally hoping May would get in because I don't trust Corbyn's or his team.
Now I'm of the opinion that however crap they turn out to be they couldn't be worse.
Oh, they could. They have ideas and enthusiasm for one thing.
For all the ineptitude within the current cabinet, it can and is getting on with the day job effectively (indeed, one side effect of the Brexit focus is that the government isn't reorganising the NHS or education again).
And they'd spend like never before. Never forget - every Labour government always runs out of money; the only question is how long it takes.
No Tory government has handed over a Budget Surplus to Labour. Labour ,in contrast - has done so - eg 1970.
The Tories handed over an economy in 1997, together with a policy plan that produced a surplus within a couple of years, so that amounts to the same thing.
But if you're right, I stand corrected. Do you think McDonnell and Corbyn would exercise similar Jenkinsian fiscal restraint?
Comments
His chances of future PM must now be near nil
@ChrisMasonBBC: PA: Former Welsh government minister Carl Sargeant, who was sacked last week after allegations about his personal conduct, has died.
How? When?
https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/927883764314923008
He would then be succeeded as Tory leader by Jacob Rees Mogg if and when the Tories go into opposition.
https://order-order.com/2017/11/07/local-libdems-dont-want-olney-back/
@RJonesUX: I'm gonna try that: "I can't post a cheque for my mortgage, it would distract me from arguing about why I should pay mortgage" twitter.com/GuardianHeathe…
Common sense will take a while to percolate back.
Labour will take over in a year or two and blame our descent into Venezuela on Brexit. Lady Nugee will become PM, blame it on the Patriarchy, then rinse and repeat.
Roll up the map of logic, it will not be needed these ten years.
Pre-arranged yesterday, perhaps?
I SAVED THE WORLD, EVERYBODY ELSE WAS WRONG
repeated on every one of the 200+ pages.
As much about being sad to see Zac back though.
https://order-order.com/2017/06/06/sarah-olney-reported-police-election-expenses/
Haha yet another silly 'centrist' sect.
If the EU really wanted us to stay, they could take a long hard look at themselves too. But they've chosen not to.
They had better hope to goodness the UK is smashed completely by Brexit. Because if in ten years time we start to come back and it doesn't look like such a mistake (either economically or politically) then I do wonder how many other countries might decide it's worth the risk.
It seems as though the IOM administration is complicit in some rather dodgy VAT claims.
Dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear, dear.
There are legitimate very dodgy things going on, but it does seem like any name they recognize it is instantly right that is definitely a story...again it is like expenses...look look Cameron claimed for legitimate maintenance, people claiming for fake offices not very interesting...
Welsh Labour politician Carl Sargeant takes own life days after being suspended over allegations about his conduct with women
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/07/welsh-labour-politician-carl-sargeant-found-dead-sacked-last/
"I am on the side of Parliament that wishes to hold the government to account"
"An ex-Welsh Labour minister who faced a party investigation into allegations about his personal conduct has taken his own life, BBC Wales understands."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41904161
It is all the same chunk of rock. That is what the map shows.
Anything else you need?
What a shower of shite this government is.
What type od expenses?
Business expenses?
Personal expnses?
If it election expenses then bl**dy well say so.
They really are non-journalists.
The opposition is not exactly fantastic either ...
Again Guido's rabble can't do homework.
Southport also went Lib Dem to Tory.
Can I add my voice to those applauding David Herdson's excellent definition of Conservatism this morning.
The dog ate their homework it seems.
How about The Guardian, for that matter. I seem to remember an extremely dodgy Cayman Islands shell company they used to avoid paying a penny in corporation tax a few years ago, that then editor Alan Rushbridger justified on the basis that it was "competely legal" to do so...
I wonder how many of The Guardian's journalists have set up service companies to minimise their tax burdens?
Let he who is without sin...
What has she got to lose?
She’s a sound conservative.
The Tories probably would.
And the political beneficiary will be Jeremy Corbyn.
https://twitter.com/BBCWalesNews/status/927888905726316544
The UK's national interest (since at least the 17th Century, and probably before in my view) has been to preserve the balance of power on continental Europe so it can pursue a global trading agenda, as well as a European one.
But if you're right, I stand corrected. Do you think McDonnell and Corbyn would exercise similar Jenkinsian fiscal restraint?