Another over reactional remainer.. Never heard of him anyway. Who is he?
Work for British Influence..who state, British Influence champions a strong UK closely and constructively engaging with EU and wider world. Hard Brexit threatens our health, wealth and reputation.
Sources say the “disturbing material” allegedly found on Mr Green’s computer was referred by cops to then Director of Public Prosecutions Sir Keir Starmer.
He ruled it was not criminal and no further action was taken.
Mr. Eagles, if there's no start to discussions in December and the EU maintains the line that Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked, do you think MPs would go down that route?
Sources say the “disturbing material” allegedly found on Mr Green’s computer was referred by cops to then Director of Public Prosecutions Sir Keir Starmer.
He ruled it was not criminal and no further action was taken.
If this is all the case, there must be a whole paper trail...If Green's denial turns out not to be 100% truthful, could that not be a tad problematic.
Other people had access to the computer - both to put material on it and to access such material. Hard to show who was working the keyboard.
That may be the case, but his defence was all of this is totally untrue. He didn't say, well yes the police found adult material on a pc in my office, it wasn't my pc, I didn't put the material there. It was a long time ago and only being brought up now because of Quick axe grinding. He said..
"This story is completely untrue and comes from a tainted and untrustworthy source...The police have never suggested to me that inappropriate material was found on my Parliamentary computer....Nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed. The allegations about the material and the computer, now nine years old, are false."
I am just saying that it seems Starmer will be able to confirm if Quick's story is true.
I am just hypothesizing that although Green might not be guilty, could be in a spot of trouble if his denial is found to be a bit dodgy.
That looks like a very plausible account of EU thinking, and of how things might pan out.
I remain mystified that the financial markets are so nonchalant about the risk.
I completely agree. I think there is almost as much denial in the markets about the true position as there is in the government. I was at a presentation by a city fund manager a couple of weeks ago at which the audience was blithely assured that a "no change" transition deal would be along in the next few months and everything would carry on pretty much as normal.
I'm expecting a sudden crisis in the next few months, probably involving a precipitate drop in the value of sterling. However the FTSE 100 may be less affected as the bulk of the turnover of its component companies arises outside the UK.
Mr. P, I agree on both points on the reshuffle that should be.
Boris has got to be thrown overboard. Leave aside that he's a shamelessly self-absorbed buffoon, his blagging appears to have got a British woman held in Iran an extra five years in prison because he couldn't be arsed doing five minutes homework.
Mr. Nick, remember also the reaction of the financial sector on the night of the referendum vote. For an hour they were utterly complacent because their ill-conceived exit polls mostly showed everything as rosy for Remain, only for them to shit the bed when they realised they'd got things utterly wrong (entirely predictable as there was no proper exit poll due to it being too difficult to do for a referendum).
Markets aren't some sort of rational collection of objective thinkers, the movements behind them are driven by people, who are just as prone to blind spots, complacency and panic as anyone else.
Mr. Urquhart, it's HMRC's own fault. They should have shoved a microphone in Bilton's face and followed him around for two minutes, as is standard operating procedure.
That looks like a very plausible account of EU thinking, and of how things might pan out.
I remain mystified that the financial markets are so nonchalant about the risk.
Isn't it explained by the rational market theory.
They think no PM will be that stupid and trash the economy with Hard/WTO Brexit.
But the thing is, it's not the PM who is being stupid. It's the situation which makes it very hard not to trash the economy: EU inflexibility and legalism, their barmy demand for megabucks, the unrealistic nature of the Article 50 timetable, the need to get 27 countries plus assorted grandstanding parliaments to agree, the fact that PM threw away Dave's majority so the UK can't trade concessions and be able to deliver on them, the chaos within government, and the unrealistic expectations on both sides.
If it was just a matter of the PM doing something, she'd do it. But she's hemmed in on all sides.
Sources say the “disturbing material” allegedly found on Mr Green’s computer was referred by cops to then Director of Public Prosecutions Sir Keir Starmer.
He ruled it was not criminal and no further action was taken.
If this is all the case, there must be a whole paper trail...If Green's denial turns out not to be 100% truthful, could that not be a tad problematic.
Other people had access to the computer - both to put material on it and to access such material. Hard to show who was working the keyboard.
That may be the case, but his defence was all of this is totally untrue. He didn't say, well yes the police found adult material on a pc in my office, it wasn't my pc, I didn't put the material there. It was a long time ago and only being brought up now because of Quick axe grinding. He said..
"This story is completely untrue and comes from a tainted and untrustworthy source...The police have never suggested to me that inappropriate material was found on my Parliamentary computer....Nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed. The allegations about the material and the computer, now nine years old, are false."
I am just saying that it seems Starmer will be able to confirm if Quick's story is true.
I am just hypothesizing that although Green might not be guilty, could be in a spot of trouble if his denial is found to be a bit dodgy.
Yes. Whilst there is clear evidence that Quick is unreliable and may have a grudge against Green the claim that the whole porn story was a complete fabrication seems improbable.
Sources say the “disturbing material” allegedly found on Mr Green’s computer was referred by cops to then Director of Public Prosecutions Sir Keir Starmer.
He ruled it was not criminal and no further action was taken.
If this is all the case, there must be a whole paper trail...If Green's denial turns out not to be 100% truthful, could that not be a tad problematic.
Other people had access to the computer - both to put material on it and to access such material. Hard to show who was working the keyboard.
That may be the case, but his defence was all of this is totally untrue. He didn't say, well yes the police found adult material on a pc in my office, it wasn't my pc, I didn't put the material there. It was a long time ago and only being brought up now because of Quick axe grinding. He said..
"This story is completely untrue and comes from a tainted and untrustworthy source...The police have never suggested to me that inappropriate material was found on my Parliamentary computer....Nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed. The allegations about the material and the computer, now nine years old, are false."
I am just saying that it seems Starmer will be able to confirm if Quick's story is true.
I am just hypothesizing that although Green might not be guilty, could be in a spot of trouble if his denial is found to be a bit dodgy.
Green denied that anything was found on his "Parliamentary computer". That leaves the possibility that stuff was found on another computer in his office. It is possible that such a computer was not a "private" computer.
It could also be the case that the police did not tell him that inappropriate material had been found until the DPP had ruled. Since the DPP ruled that the material was not criminal there would have been no point telling Green about it.
So it is possible that both Green's statement and the police's statement are technically correct, if one looks carefully at the wording.
Of course, if the police found legal porn on a computer which they did not tell him about and about which no action was taken all those years ago and are only now revealing it (cui bono?) that is quite another issue.......
Sources say the “disturbing material” allegedly found on Mr Green’s computer was referred by cops to then Director of Public Prosecutions Sir Keir Starmer.
He ruled it was not criminal and no further action was taken.
If this is all the case, there must be a whole paper trail...If Green's denial turns out not to be 100% truthful, could that not be a tad problematic.
Other people had access to the computer - both to put material on it and to access such material. Hard to show who was working the keyboard.
That may be the case, but his defence was all of this is totally untrue. He didn't say, well yes the police found adult material on a pc in my office, it wasn't my pc, I didn't put the material there. It was a long time ago and only being brought up now because of Quick axe grinding. He said..
"This story is completely untrue and comes from a tainted and untrustworthy source...The police have never suggested to me that inappropriate material was found on my Parliamentary computer....Nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed. The allegations about the material and the computer, now nine years old, are false."
I am just saying that it seems Starmer will be able to confirm if Quick's story is true.
I am just hypothesizing that although Green might not be guilty, could be in a spot of trouble if his denial is found to be a bit dodgy.
Green denied that anything was found on his "Parliamentary computer". That leaves the possibility that stuff was found on another computer in his office. It is possible that such a computer was not a "private" computer.
It could also be the case that the police did not tell him that inappropriate material had been found until the DPP had ruled. Since the DPP ruled that the material was not criminal there would have been no point telling Green about it.
So it is possible that both Green's statement and the police's statement are technically correct, if one looks carefully at the wording.
Of course, if the police found legal porn on a computer which they did not tell him about and about which no action was taken all those years ago and are only now revealing it (cui bono?) that is quite another issue.......
I understand all of the above. I just wonder if Green's rush to bash Quick (who clearly has an axe to grind) might call him a bit of trouble in the court of public opinion.
Mr. P, I agree on both points on the reshuffle that should be.
Boris has got to be thrown overboard. Leave aside that he's a shamelessly self-absorbed buffoon, his blagging appears to have got a British woman held in Iran an extra five years in prison because he couldn't be arsed doing five minutes homework.
I've no wish to defend BoJo since the man is an arse. But are we certain that that comment was not checked beforehand with someone in the FO who knew what the correct position was?
Queen should apologise, suggests Corbyn lead BBC politics headline.
The Queen wouldn't personally have had anything to do with how her funds have been invested I suspect.
The people investing the funds on her behalf didn't know either. They invested in a fund, who were free to make investment decision as they saw fit and I am sure they can analyze the make up of the fund, £3k out of £10 million (which is out of £500 million being handled) that is like being concerned that there is a charge for a plastic bag while you were in Ikea buying everything to kit out Buckingham Palace from scratch.
Miss Cyclefree, hmm. Perhaps you're right on that particular comment. However, surely anyone with an ounce of sense would tread as lightly as possible?
Mr. Nick, remember also the reaction of the financial sector on the night of the referendum vote. For an hour they were utterly complacent because their ill-conceived exit polls mostly showed everything as rosy for Remain, only for them to shit the bed when they realised they'd got things utterly wrong (entirely predictable as there was no proper exit poll due to it being too difficult to do for a referendum).
Markets aren't some sort of rational collection of objective thinkers, the movements behind them are driven by people, who are just as prone to blind spots, complacency and panic as anyone else.
Yes. For many years governments of all parties have generally subordinated their political beliefs to economic factors - new Labour was the epitome of this approach. The markets think that hard Brexit is so stupid that no rational politician would ever support it and therefore it wont happen. But unfortunately the Tory ultras are ideologues to whom hard Brexit is an article of faith - rationality does not come into it.
I've no wish to defend BoJo since the man is an arse. But are we certain that that comment was not checked beforehand with someone in the FO who knew what the correct position was?
The comment was apparently quoted at trial and now appears on a website.
Mr. Eagles, if there's no start to discussions in December and the EU maintains the line that Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked, do you think MPs would go down that route?
Yup, there's a majority in our sovereign Parliament to keep us in the single market/customs unions or EEA/EFTA style option.
Remember the voters supported appeasement until they realised it was leading to a disaster.
Other people had access to the computer - both to put material on it and to access such material. Hard to show who was working the keyboard.
That may be the case, but his defence was all of this is totally untrue. He didn't say, well yes the police found adult material on a pc in my office, it wasn't my pc, I didn't put the material there. It was a long time ago and only being brought up now because of Quick axe grinding. He said..
"This story is completely untrue and comes from a tainted and untrustworthy source...The police have never suggested to me that inappropriate material was found on my Parliamentary computer....Nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed. The allegations about the material and the computer, now nine years old, are false."
I am just saying that it seems Starmer will be able to confirm if Quick's story is true.
I am just hypothesizing that although Green might not be guilty, could be in a spot of trouble if his denial is found to be a bit dodgy.
Green denied that anything was found on his "Parliamentary computer". That leaves the possibility that stuff was found on another computer in his office. It is possible that such a computer was not a "private" computer.
It could also be the case that the police did not tell him that inappropriate material had been found until the DPP had ruled. Since the DPP ruled that the material was not criminal there would have been no point telling Green about it.
So it is possible that both Green's statement and the police's statement are technically correct, if one looks carefully at the wording.
Of course, if the police found legal porn on a computer which they did not tell him about and about which no action was taken all those years ago and are only now revealing it (cui bono?) that is quite another issue.......
I understand all of the above. I just wonder if Green's rush to bash Quick (who clearly has an axe to grind) might call him a bit of trouble in the court of public opinion.
It might. Or it might look as if one policeman is pursuing a vendetta, particularly if it is true that Green was never told about what the police found. Difficult to know how it will go.
Green is a bloody fool if he has said stuff which is untrue.
Mr. Eagles, but would EEA/EFTA be credible in the timescale under those circumstances?
Edited extra bit: I was thinking there'd probably be a fork in the road which would be either remaining in [if that's possible], or leaving with no deal.
I've no wish to defend BoJo since the man is an arse. But are we certain that that comment was not checked beforehand with someone in the FO who knew what the correct position was?
The comment was apparently quoted at trial and now appears on a website.
Is that really the outcome approved by the FO?
I understand that. I just wanted to know whether it was something Boris wrote himself or whether he wrote it on the basis of incorrect information he was given. If the former, I think it does make his position untenable. If the latter, it is probably also untenable given that he is the Minister responsible but the actual responsibility may lie elsewhere.
That looks like a very plausible account of EU thinking, and of how things might pan out.
I remain mystified that the financial markets are so nonchalant about the risk.
Isn't it explained by the rational market theory.
They think no PM will be that stupid and trash the economy with Hard/WTO Brexit.
But the thing is, it's not the PM who is being stupid. It's the situation which makes it very hard not to trash the economy: EU inflexibility and legalism, their barmy demand for megabucks, the unrealistic nature of the Article 50 timetable, the need to get 27 countries plus assorted grandstanding parliaments to agree, the fact that PM threw away Dave's majority so the UK can't trade concessions and be able to deliver on them, the chaos within government, and the unrealistic expectations on both sides.
If it was just a matter of the PM doing something, she'd do it. But she's hemmed in on all sides.
I spent the morning in a Brexit related seminar, I think the belief is that Hard/WTO Brexit has a negative impact on the EU too.
If there's one thing the EU specialise in is kicking cans down the road/fudges.
I think even David Davis realises the predicament he finds himself in.
Miss Cyclefree, hmm. Perhaps you're right on that particular comment. However, surely anyone with an ounce of sense would tread as lightly as possible?
It's Boris we're talking about here. A stranger to common-sense, thinking before speaking and judgment, as best I can tell.
Mr. Eagles, but would EEA/EFTA be credible in the timescale under those circumstances?
Edited extra bit: I was thinking there'd probably be a fork in the road which would be either remaining in [if that's possible], or leaving with no deal.
Well the transition phase gets extended and widened.
I've got a motto for the Government to use to sell it.
Other people had access to the computer - both to put material on it and to access such material. Hard to show who was working the keyboard.
That may be the case, but his defence was all of this is totally untrue. He didn't say, well yes the police found adult material on a pc in my office, it wasn't my pc, I didn't put the material there. It was a long time ago and only being brought up now because of Quick axe grinding. He said..
"This story is completely untrue and comes from a tainted and untrustworthy source...The police have never suggested to me that inappropriate material was found on my Parliamentary computer....Nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed. The allegations about the material and the computer, now nine years old, are false."
I am just saying that it seems Starmer will be able to confirm if Quick's story is true.
I am just hypothesizing that although Green might not be guilty, could be in a spot of trouble if his denial is found to be a bit dodgy.
Green denied that anything was found on his "Parliamentary computer". That leaves the possibility that stuff was found on another computer in his office. It is possible that such a computer was not a "private" computer.
It could also be the case that the police did not tell him that inappropriate material had been found until the DPP had ruled. Since the DPP ruled that the material was not criminal there would have been no point telling Green about it.
So it is possible that both Green's statement and the police's statement are technically correct, if one looks carefully at the wording.
Of course, if the police found legal porn on a computer which they did not tell him about and about which no action was taken all those years ago and are only now revealing it (cui bono?) that is quite another issue.......
I understand all of the above. I just wonder if Green's rush to bash Quick (who clearly has an axe to grind) might call him a bit of trouble in the court of public opinion.
It might. Or it might look as if one policeman is pursuing a vendetta, particularly if it is true that Green was never told about what the police found. Difficult to know how it will go.
Green is a bloody fool if he has said stuff which is untrue.
If the CPS ruled that the porn was not criminal there would have been no need for the police to inform Green. As you say, careful reading of both sets of statements show they are not necessarily incompatible - and Green is married to a barrister....
I understand that. I just wanted to know whether it was something Boris wrote himself or whether he wrote it on the basis of incorrect information he was given. If the former, I think it does make his position untenable. If the latter, it is probably also untenable given that he is the Minister responsible but the actual responsibility may lie elsewhere.
OK, but if it was the act "of a disgruntled civil servant"™ I suspect BoZo might have taken to the airwaves with that excuse rather promptly.
And given his propensity for saying dumb things, the balance of probability lies in favour of BoZo being the author of his own downfall.
Mr. Eagles, if there's no start to discussions in December and the EU maintains the line that Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked, do you think MPs would go down that route?
Yup, there's a majority in our sovereign Parliament to keep us in the single market/customs unions or EEA/EFTA style option.
Remember the voters supported appeasement until they realised it was leading to a disaster.
But that it was leading to disaster was demonstrated by Hitler more than adequately when he tore up the Munich agreement and occupied Prague. There will be no such dramatic breach in the Brexit talks to flag up to the public that it'll all end in disaster.
Mr. Eagles, if there's no start to discussions in December and the EU maintains the line that Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked, do you think MPs would go down that route?
Yup, there's a majority in our sovereign Parliament to keep us in the single market/customs unions or EEA/EFTA style option.
Remember the voters supported appeasement until they realised it was leading to a disaster.
But that it was leading to disaster was demonstrated by Hitler more than adequately when he tore up the Munich agreement and occupied Prague. There will be no such dramatic breach in the Brexit talks to flag up to the public that it'll all end in disaster.
I was thinking of a looming economic disaster.
Just imagine if in the next few months Nissan announced they had to pull out of the UK/Sunderland.
I spent the morning in a Brexit related seminar, I think the belief is that Hard/WTO Brexit has a negative impact on the EU too..
That is undoubtedly true, and there are very strong signals that the EU are belatedly beginning to understand that (point 11 of Jonathan Lis' Twitter sequence). However, that doesn't guarantee that it won't happen, given that the clock is ticking and the mechanisms for getting out of this mess looks at best problematic.
The trouble is that the EU have been as unrealistic, or even more so, than the UK. They should have started meaningful talks on the future relationship immediately after the referendum; instead they haven't even started them even now.
Boris' latest gaffe doesn't surprise me. What does and will continue to surprise me is people still think he is PM material.
He is not FS material, as has been amply demonstrated with this. He ought to go over it.
The political problem is that Fallon has already gone, Patel ought to go over her indiscretion, and Green is under severe pressure. To lose one minister happens from time to time. To lose four within a week is more than carelessness; it's a government falling apart at the seams.
Unless the PM takes control and gets rid of them first. Except with the sexual harassment claims, this may well not be the end of it so a reshuffle won't necessarily draw a line under the problems. Likewise, bringing in new blood is not guaranteed to solve the problem of dysfunctionality and may just reinforce a sense of lightweightness.
And yet the natural solution - change at the top - doesn't work, partly because there's no-one who could obviously do better, and partly because it would be an indulgence to spend another two months on a leadership election that would inevitably divide the Party.
Mr. Eagles, if there's no start to discussions in December and the EU maintains the line that Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked, do you think MPs would go down that route?
Yup, there's a majority in our sovereign Parliament to keep us in the single market/customs unions or EEA/EFTA style option.
Remember the voters supported appeasement until they realised it was leading to a disaster.
But that it was leading to disaster was demonstrated by Hitler more than adequately when he tore up the Munich agreement and occupied Prague. There will be no such dramatic breach in the Brexit talks to flag up to the public that it'll all end in disaster.
I was thinking of a looming economic disaster.
Just imagine if in the next few months Nissan announced they had to pull out of the UK/Sunderland.
She was led to believe that her concerns about the alleged attack would be passed to Ms Leadsom, the then Leader of the Commons, and Gavin Williamson, the then Chief Whip.
However she was left feeling "worthless" after neither Ms Leadsom or Mr Williamson contacted her to discuss her allegations and there was no follow up from Parliamentary authorities.
Without wanting to reopen old discussions, what Boris learned from the referendum campaign is that he could get away with bluster/bullshit/carelessness and win.
That's not a route to be a successful Foreign Secretary.
Mr. Eagles, if there's no start to discussions in December and the EU maintains the line that Article 50 can be unilaterally revoked, do you think MPs would go down that route?
Yup, there's a majority in our sovereign Parliament to keep us in the single market/customs unions or EEA/EFTA style option.
Remember the voters supported appeasement until they realised it was leading to a disaster.
But that it was leading to disaster was demonstrated by Hitler more than adequately when he tore up the Munich agreement and occupied Prague. There will be no such dramatic breach in the Brexit talks to flag up to the public that it'll all end in disaster.
I was thinking of a looming economic disaster.
Just imagine if in the next few months Nissan announced they had to pull out of the UK/Sunderland.
Hmm. It's possible. The optics of parliament overriding the referendum would be awful though. At the minimum, I think there'd need to be another public vote but even that would look awful, would reveal the emptiness of A50 and would negate the chance of real reform within the EU for many years.
Maybe something big like Nissan walking would be the moment the country wakes up from this collective madness?
But that would mean that the EU has basically blackmailed us into submission. Which would imply the end of the UK as an independent country. I cannot even imagine all the consequences of that, but I don't think it will end well for any side.
Maybe something big like Nissan walking would be the moment the country wakes up from this collective madness?
But that would mean that the EU has basically blackmailed us into submission. Which would imply the end of the UK as an independent country. I cannot even imagine all the consequences of that, but I don't think it will end well for any side.
Nah, it would be that Leave couldn't honour the promises they made during the campaign.
BTW - Still waiting for your easy solutions to things like the Irish Border.
Maybe something big like Nissan walking would be the moment the country wakes up from this collective madness?
The difficulty is that for any company to be the first to break ranks in this way would risk a huge backlash. You could imagine the Express running a boycott campaign, the Government facing questions about not having any of their cars, and a ferocious smear campaign of the company and its senior staff ( how much are they paid, have they ever made a mistake or said anything controversial etc.)
So my guess is they are just quietly changing plans without the need for huge fanfare or announcements, simply moving investment out. That's why it's proving so hard to convince people that economic impacts are real and happening, it's incremental price increases which don't have the impact of the big bang headline that a car manufacturer pulling out would have.
Maybe something big like Nissan walking would be the moment the country wakes up from this collective madness?
FWIW I think the moment when reality begins to dawn will be when airlines stop selling advance tickets to EU countries beyond March 2019 because they can't guarantee landing rights. I think air tickets are normally sold up to 12 months in advance so this will hit in March 2018. Of course if a big player like Nissan were to announce an exit earlier then this might bring things forward, but I doubt that will happen.
Boris' latest gaffe doesn't surprise me. What does and will continue to surprise me is people still think he is PM material.
He is not FS material, as has been amply demonstrated with this. He ought to go over it.
The political problem is that Fallon has already gone, Patel ought to go over her indiscretion, and Green is under severe pressure. To lose one minister happens from time to time. To lose four within a week is more than carelessness; it's a government falling apart at the seams.
Unless the PM takes control and gets rid of them first. Except with the sexual harassment claims, this may well not be the end of it so a reshuffle won't necessarily draw a line under the problems. Likewise, bringing in new blood is not guaranteed to solve the problem of dysfunctionality and may just reinforce a sense of lightweightness.
And yet the natural solution - change at the top - doesn't work, partly because there's no-one who could obviously do better, and partly because it would be an indulgence to spend another two months on a leadership election that would inevitably divide the Party.
It's a mess.
Government of National Unity time? Jezza Deputy PM under Theresa's watchful eye?
@jessicaelgot: Downing Street will not elaborate on how tFCO has established that British interests not damaged by Patel, seeing as they weren't in meeting
Should France embrace gender-neutral words? Bien sur!
The French Academy is railing against moves towards a gender-neutral style, but language always blends and changes without any loss of expressive power.
Mr. Urquhart, I'm sure the BBC will spend the first 15 minutes of the news at ten tonight excoriating themselves.
Mr. Eagles, that's a flippant response. Terrorism is about violence with a political or religious cause (the Orlando night club shooting or the white supremacist who attacked a black church were both terrorists, the Vegas shooting was not).
As an aside, an almost identical argument is made by the likes of Owen Jones et al. when there's an Islamic terrorist attack (not all Muslims, Don't Look Back In Anger etc) but when there's a white rightwinger driving a van into people leaving a mosque, suddenly a broad generalisation is absolutely fine.
Should France embrace gender-neutral words? Bien sur!
The French Academy is railing against moves towards a gender-neutral style, but language always blends and changes without any loss of expressive power.
Labour’s Clive Efford asks how an average taxpayer in Eltham, which he represents, can benefit from offshore trusts in the same ways that “the eye-wateringly rich” do.
They can, they are called pension funds....what isn't on, is stuff like this...
Boris' latest gaffe doesn't surprise me. What does and will continue to surprise me is people still think he is PM material.
He is not FS material, as has been amply demonstrated with this. He ought to go over it.
The political problem is that Fallon has already gone, Patel ought to go over her indiscretion, and Green is under severe pressure. To lose one minister happens from time to time. To lose four within a week is more than carelessness; it's a government falling apart at the seams.
Unless the PM takes control and gets rid of them first. Except with the sexual harassment claims, this may well not be the end of it so a reshuffle won't necessarily draw a line under the problems. Likewise, bringing in new blood is not guaranteed to solve the problem of dysfunctionality and may just reinforce a sense of lightweightness.
And yet the natural solution - change at the top - doesn't work, partly because there's no-one who could obviously do better, and partly because it would be an indulgence to spend another two months on a leadership election that would inevitably divide the Party.
It's a mess.
Government of National Unity time? Jezza Deputy PM under Theresa's watchful eye?
I think May's departure would be required before any of the other parties would consider a GNU. She is the Chamberlain of our age, and that's being kind. After all, Chamberlain had some solid ministerial achievements behind him before the disasters of his premiership.
Lis' pt. 32 is the one I would be looking at if I were in govt. Extend A50 for a year or two. Still time before the GE and the pressure is lifted and we can make amends for the false start we have had these past few months.
Exit in 2021, in triumph, and fight tooth and nail at GE2022.
Lab meanwhile would have nowhere to go because "we are taking more time to get it right" can only be countered by "why aren't we leaving more quickly" which I think Lab would have a big problem espousing.
It's risky but the least bad option for the country I can see atm.
Maybe something big like Nissan walking would be the moment the country wakes up from this collective madness?
The difficulty is that for any company to be the first to break ranks in this way would risk a huge backlash. You could imagine the Express running a boycott campaign, the Government facing questions about not having any of their cars, and a ferocious smear campaign of the company and its senior staff ( how much are they paid, have they ever made a mistake or said anything controversial etc.)
So my guess is they are just quietly changing plans without the need for huge fanfare or announcements, simply moving investment out. That's why it's proving so hard to convince people that economic impacts are real and happening, it's incremental price increases which don't have the impact of the big bang headline that a car manufacturer pulling out would have.
Correct . Companies have the incentive to overstate the consequences when they are trying to get governments to do things and understate them when they are actually making the changes. Same with banks. When they said they would move thousands of staff to Europe if they didn't get certain guarantees and now say it's only hundreds, it is simply that they have given up trying to prevent the changes and are now underway.
So much for this being a "sex scandal"; if all the reports are true, this is obviously a "lack of sex" scandal, which might explain why all our parliamentarians are so grumpy and disagreeable
Maybe something big like Nissan walking would be the moment the country wakes up from this collective madness?
But that would mean that the EU has basically blackmailed us into submission. Which would imply the end of the UK as an independent country. I cannot even imagine all the consequences of that, but I don't think it will end well for any side.
Given the state of the present British government and the government in waiting, maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing for the UK to stop being an independent country. It's certainly not showing much sign of being capable of governing itself the way things are going.
What do you have to do to get actually get sacked from this Cabinet?
TM indicated all the revelations had still to come out and I suspect when she is confident that most if not all has been revealed she will take the party by the scruff of the neck and do a proper reshuffle.
So much for this being a "sex scandal"; if all the reports are true, this is obviously a "lack of sex" scandal, which might explain why all our parliamentarians are so grumpy and disagreeable
There are definitely some cases which look very bad...however the media (a bit like expenses) are getting overexcited about stories of kinky movies on a pc from 10 years ago than claims of covering up of rape in the way they did over duck houses rather than actual criminal behaviour of charging for a fake office, £10k's of work that was never undertaken etc etc etc.
If I was TM I would say I am going on a walk with Philip and the rest of you can just get on with it
You do wonder how much more she can take.
But just imagine the forces that would be unleashed in a Tory leadership contest. The candidates would fall over themselves to trash the EU in order to appeal to the dinosaurs in the constituencies. The talks would be over, hard Brexit would become unavoidable, the DUP could well decide that it was time to abandon the sinking ship and it's by no means clear that the eventual victor could command a majority in the Commons.
Labour’s Clive Efford asks how an average taxpayer in Eltham, which he represents, can benefit from offshore trusts in the same ways that “the eye-wateringly rich” do.
They can, they are called pension funds....what isn't on, is stuff like this...
O’Toole warned: “Can I ask there are no personal pronouns used in written correspondence please guys. Technically, the account belongs to a cell company which belongs to a trust. ‘The’ account, ‘the cell account’; anything buy [sic] ‘my’ account please.”
Leaving stuff like this lieing around in email trails should allow HMRC's learned friends to find O'Toole bang to rights...
Maybe something big like Nissan walking would be the moment the country wakes up from this collective madness?
The government will do and pay anything to avoid Nissan leaving Sunderland. Which is reason in itself to believe there will be a deal. They may even do what they say will do and sign a Canada style FTA within two years. It would be the stupidest and most unequal arrangement going, but would might do it just to keep the cars cranking out on the Tyne.
@JasonGroves1: Ministerial code explainer. MP asks aide to buy sex toy years ago - full inquiry. Minister holds secret meeting with foreign PM. No inquiry
If I was TM I would say I am going on a walk with Philip and the rest of you can just get on with it
You do wonder how much more she can take.
But just imagine the forces that would be unleashed in a Tory leadership contest. The candidates would fall over themselves to trash the EU in order to appeal to the dinosaurs in the constituencies. The talks would be over, hard Brexit would become unavoidable, the DUP could well decide that it was time to abandon the sinking ship and it's by no means clear that the eventual victor could command a majority in the Commons.
As a member I would expect several candidates would stand and go through the hustings. The MP's would select the final two and as it stands now David Davis and JRM are possible and JRM could take the membership vote. Boris and Patel are not going to be in the frame, nor Leadsom
But just imagine the forces that would be unleashed in a Tory leadership contest. The candidates would fall over themselves to trash the EU in order to appeal to the dinosaurs in the constituencies. The talks would be over, hard Brexit would become unavoidable, the DUP could well decide that it was time to abandon the sinking ship and it's by no means clear that the eventual victor could command a majority in the Commons.
And that is different from now, how exactly?
Tezza falls over herself to criticise the EU in order to appeal to the dinosaurs in the constituencies.
The talks are nearly over, hard Brexit is probably unavoidable
And it's by no means clear she could command a majority in the Commons for any concrete proposals.
Comments
I remain mystified that the financial markets are so nonchalant about the risk.
They think no PM will be that stupid and trash the economy with Hard/WTO Brexit.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/the-tories-are-getting-behind-all-the-daftest-progressive-causes/
I wouldn’t say this is the worst government in my lifetime, but it’s certainly in the bottom one.
"This story is completely untrue and comes from a tainted and untrustworthy source...The police have never suggested to me that inappropriate material was found on my Parliamentary computer....Nor did I have a 'private' computer, as has been claimed. The allegations about the material and the computer, now nine years old, are false."
I am just saying that it seems Starmer will be able to confirm if Quick's story is true.
I am just hypothesizing that although Green might not be guilty, could be in a spot of trouble if his denial is found to be a bit dodgy.
I'm expecting a sudden crisis in the next few months, probably involving a precipitate drop in the value of sterling. However the FTSE 100 may be less affected as the bulk of the turnover of its component companies arises outside the UK.
Boris has got to be thrown overboard. Leave aside that he's a shamelessly self-absorbed buffoon, his blagging appears to have got a British woman held in Iran an extra five years in prison because he couldn't be arsed doing five minutes homework.
Markets aren't some sort of rational collection of objective thinkers, the movements behind them are driven by people, who are just as prone to blind spots, complacency and panic as anyone else.
If it was just a matter of the PM doing something, she'd do it. But she's hemmed in on all sides.
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/927564362272923648
It could also be the case that the police did not tell him that inappropriate material had been found until the DPP had ruled. Since the DPP ruled that the material was not criminal there would have been no point telling Green about it.
So it is possible that both Green's statement and the police's statement are technically correct, if one looks carefully at the wording.
Of course, if the police found legal porn on a computer which they did not tell him about and about which no action was taken all those years ago and are only now revealing it (cui bono?) that is quite another issue.......
Her insistence that everything is fine, and all will be alright on the night, just to keep a job she probably doesn't want is making it worse.
Queen should apologise, suggests Corbyn lead BBC politics headline.
The Queen wouldn't personally have had anything to do with how her funds have been invested I suspect.
Is that really the outcome approved by the FO?
Remember the voters supported appeasement until they realised it was leading to a disaster.
Green is a bloody fool if he has said stuff which is untrue.
Edited extra bit: I was thinking there'd probably be a fork in the road which would be either remaining in [if that's possible], or leaving with no deal.
If there's one thing the EU specialise in is kicking cans down the road/fudges.
I think even David Davis realises the predicament he finds himself in.
It's Boris we're talking about here. A stranger to common-sense, thinking before speaking and judgment, as best I can tell.
I've got a motto for the Government to use to sell it.
Do you want it quick or do you want it good?
And given his propensity for saying dumb things, the balance of probability lies in favour of BoZo being the author of his own downfall.
Just imagine if in the next few months Nissan announced they had to pull out of the UK/Sunderland.
https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/927469066528477184
The trouble is that the EU have been as unrealistic, or even more so, than the UK. They should have started meaningful talks on the future relationship immediately after the referendum; instead they haven't even started them even now.
The political problem is that Fallon has already gone, Patel ought to go over her indiscretion,
and Green is under severe pressure. To lose one minister happens from time to time. To lose four within a week is more than carelessness; it's a government falling apart at the seams.
Unless the PM takes control and gets rid of them first. Except with the sexual harassment claims, this may well not be the end of it so a reshuffle won't necessarily draw a line under the problems. Likewise, bringing in new blood is not guaranteed to solve the problem of dysfunctionality and may just reinforce a sense of lightweightness.
And yet the natural solution - change at the top - doesn't work, partly because there's no-one who could obviously do better, and partly because it would be an indulgence to spend another two months on a leadership election that would inevitably divide the Party.
It's a mess.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/06/tory-activist-says-raped-senior-party-figure-commons-ignored/
However she was left feeling "worthless" after neither Ms Leadsom or Mr Williamson contacted her to discuss her allegations and there was no follow up from Parliamentary authorities.
That's not a route to be a successful Foreign Secretary.
But that would mean that the EU has basically blackmailed us into submission. Which would imply the end of the UK as an independent country. I cannot even imagine all the consequences of that, but I don't think it will end well for any side.
BTW - Still waiting for your easy solutions to things like the Irish Border.
So my guess is they are just quietly changing plans without the need for huge fanfare or announcements, simply moving investment out. That's why it's proving so hard to convince people that economic impacts are real and happening, it's incremental price increases which don't have the impact of the big bang headline that a car manufacturer pulling out would have.
@paulwaugh: No10 on Boris Johnson. FCO statement soon but PM has confidence in him cos he's "doing a good job".
No reshuffle
https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/927258030563123200
https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/927258438266212352
The French Academy is railing against moves towards a gender-neutral style, but language always blends and changes without any loss of expressive power.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2017/nov/06/france-embrace-gender-neutral-language-academy?CMP=twt_gu
Mr. Eagles, that's a flippant response. Terrorism is about violence with a political or religious cause (the Orlando night club shooting or the white supremacist who attacked a black church were both terrorists, the Vegas shooting was not).
As an aside, an almost identical argument is made by the likes of Owen Jones et al. when there's an Islamic terrorist attack (not all Muslims, Don't Look Back In Anger etc) but when there's a white rightwinger driving a van into people leaving a mosque, suddenly a broad generalisation is absolutely fine.
He said, she said.They said, they said.
They can, they are called pension funds....what isn't on, is stuff like this...
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/06/james-o-toole-tax-alchemist-assets-uk-paradise-papers
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/927576717107048448
Exit in 2021, in triumph, and fight tooth and nail at GE2022.
Lab meanwhile would have nowhere to go because "we are taking more time to get it right" can only be countered by "why aren't we leaving more quickly" which I think Lab would have a big problem espousing.
It's risky but the least bad option for the country I can see atm.
Is this what the "Take Back Control" team had in mind?
Brexit is an existential threat to good governance.
You'se ain't the worst but need to walk-away sometimes. Dr Smukie has probably a case-book on most of us.
If she doesn't then she will be on her way
But just imagine the forces that would be unleashed in a Tory leadership contest. The candidates would fall over themselves to trash the EU in order to appeal to the dinosaurs in the constituencies. The talks would be over, hard Brexit would become unavoidable, the DUP could well decide that it was time to abandon the sinking ship and it's by no means clear that the eventual victor could command a majority in the Commons.
Leaving stuff like this lieing around in email trails should allow HMRC's learned friends to find O'Toole bang to rights...
I still can't quite believe "Sir" Lynton charged the tories £4m for that pathetic joke of a campaign.
May sacked Fallon.
Tezza falls over herself to criticise the EU in order to appeal to the dinosaurs in the constituencies.
The talks are nearly over, hard Brexit is probably unavoidable
And it's by no means clear she could command a majority in the Commons for any concrete proposals.