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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Spain’s government largely created the Catalan crisis and may

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    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    On topic, the rest of Spain need to decide whether they want a colony, a good neighbour, a resentful neighbour or a much looser relationship (if indeed that is still attainable). At the moment, they seem to want a colony. That is not sustainable in the long term.

    That also applies within Catalonia where opinion is split down the middle. In your pejorative terms about half are indeed content to be a "colony".
    I have an entirely different set of thoughts for Catalonians.

    Both sides need to recognise that the current state of affairs is not working. There is a range of stable states of affairs and that range narrows according to the actions of each side. If Catalonians don't feel much affinity with people in other parts of Spain that they're subsidising, they either need to be persuaded that they do have some affinity or their concerns need to be addressed effectively. Or be allowed to go independent.

    Right now, the Spanish government is doing none of these things and seeking to impose control by brute force. Colony seems an apt word for that.
    Your thoughts do not acknowledge the split within Catalonia. What is happening on the ground may concentrate minds within the region, in particular the exodus of companies, or rather their hq's, which is a harbinger of things to come. Since the resentment of "true" Catalonians seems to be largely economic rather than cultural, the realisation that their standard of living is in some jeopardy with this secessionist push may bring some of them to their senses.
    What's Spanish (or Catalonian) for Project Fear?
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382


    But who spoke to the press regarding the porn ?


    Good question. But Quick was quick to confirm it......

    I did not know that , I think he should have said I neither confirm or deny then.Or even better no comment and refer them to the appropriate authorities.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,396
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:

    @Fhamiltontimes: Major unease in senior cop ranks over Damian Green saga - release of confidential, non-criminal material, decade after controversial inquiry

    I have changed my mind over Green.

    Initially I thought that the accusations against him made it compromising on TM as he is effectively the DPM but I am really angry at the action of Quick and fully support Green in his fight against the release of information that is designed to destabilize him following what seems like revenge.

    There is no place in the police for this and I hope Quick is suitable discharged from the inquiry into Green as prejudiced and unreliable thereby negating this unfair intervention
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    eekeek Posts: 25,028
    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Mr. Pointer, surely such would've emerged at the time? It's not like Quick would hold back on the truth in order to protect Green.

    I agree Mr. D, that's why I think any hard evidence is unlikely to emerge.

    (Excuse the rather tacky double-entendre!)
    Even if they are office computers , you would think they would have individual log in requirements.Many offices hot desk .
    If they were Parliamentary computers, one would assume they were joined to a Domain and had individual user profiles. @NickPalmer might be able to confirm this one way or the other.

    That’s not to mean that user credentials didn’t get shared out, as any IT guy who’s ever tried to police this in practice will tell you.
    Yes when I worked for the Police , we were always told never to leave our computers logged in unattended but as you say many were due to numerous reasons.
    In corporate IT, my lecture on this is that if you leave your computer logged in, and someone walks up to it and sends an email to the CEO telling him that he’s a c***, the burden of responsibility is now on you to prove you didn’t send it.

    It also requires processes in the business and IT department that authorise users for the accesses they need quickly and efficiently, which of course isn’t always the case.
    Windows key - L is the world's most important key combination..

    As for passwords pick a 3 word pattern that is date related and stick to it.... month year animal.....
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    Mr. Urquhart, I rather like the line from Twitter that the Queen's also Queen of Bermuda and the Cayman Islands, so it's not offshore for her.

    Well i think it was perms-outraged hodge that said something like she should only be investing in this country and I did think errh isn’t all these other places also queenies country....apparently she voluntarily pays tax on this investment that due to her special status she doesn’t have to.

    I don’t think I have been more underwhelmed at a royal scandal since the black widow papers showed that prince Charles nags the hell out government ministers on issues like the lesser spotted tree frog only found in one tiny part of the amazon basin...
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,493
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Mr. Pointer, surely such would've emerged at the time? It's not like Quick would hold back on the truth in order to protect Green.

    I agree Mr. D, that's why I think any hard evidence is unlikely to emerge.

    (Excuse the rather tacky double-entendre!)
    Even if they are office computers , you would think they would have individual log in requirements.Many offices hot desk .
    If they were Parliamentary computers, one would assume they were joined to a Domain and had individual user profiles. @NickPalmer might be able to confirm this one way or the other.

    That’s not to mean that user credentials didn’t get shared out, as any IT guy who’s ever tried to police this in practice will tell you.
    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    Very much so. Education is a big part of it, I usually look at my watch and exclaim “November6th!” - that usually meets the password requirements, rather then people trying to remember long and complicated passwords.
    Changing the password every day must be a real hassle, though.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405

    Scott_P said:

    @Fhamiltontimes: Major unease in senior cop ranks over Damian Green saga - release of confidential, non-criminal material, decade after controversial inquiry

    I have changed my mind over Green.

    Initially I thought that the accusations against him made it compromising on TM as he is effectively the DPM but I am really angry at the action of Quick and fully support Green in his fight against the release of information that is designed to destabilize him following what seems like revenge.

    There is no place in the police for this and I hope Quick is suitable discharged from the inquiry into Green as prejudiced and unreliable thereby negating this unfair intervention
    Interesting conclusion given that no one knows the details of the case.

    Still, a gut feel is a gut feel, I suppose.
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    Mr. Urquhart, indeed. I'd be surprised if there are many other people who pay £19m more than they're legally obliged to in taxes.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    JPJ2 said:

    A well written article but clearly by someone who opposes Catalonian independence so much so that his solution is that any future referendum should not be about that very issue.

    For better or worse, Spain will not agree to such a referendum in the forseeable future. A solution will involve compromise on both sides. For Spain it will be about cash, for separatists it will be about full independence. That’s the reality.

    I guess now is the time for me to mention once more that there is no Spanish word for compromise!!

    For Spain to agree a referendum the Constitution would need to be changed. I understood the current constitution to have been supported by a significant majority in a referendum when instituted, including Catalonia. Such a significant change would probably require a similar referendum to amend and effectively would become a national referendum on seccession. Unlikely to pass.

    In practice it seems that Madrid can only offer greater (or lesser) devolution as part of dealings.

    Spanish may have no word that translates as compromise, but just as English has no word for schadenfreude it doesn't mean that we do not recognise it!
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    TOPPING said:


    Meanwhile in the East, the sun rises every day.

    My point was that the excellent HoC research briefing didn't bring any clarity to anything. As you say, it notes that the government seems to have ruled out EEA (which entails the things listed), but so what? Doesn't mean we can't opt for EEA. The paper, and perhaps even @Carlotta implies that it is a categorical fact that the UK doesn't want free movement. It is no such thing.

    As you say, the govt has decided that it doesn't want it, but that is not to say it is the defined wish of the people.

    I know we disagree on a lot of things but on this I agree entirely. I don't really think anyone can say for sure what the defined will of the people is beyond the referendum result which was to leave the EU. Anything else including the form that leaving takes seems to me to be up to our elected officials to decide. Unfortunately at the moment the specific section of those elected officials that is in charge of our leaving seems to have decided that a number of viable options should be ignored or discarded.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    edited November 2017
    OchEye said:

    Talking about computer security, thought this might amuse, found on The Register this morning:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/03/on_call/

    Ha ha, good story. Welcome to Africa, I’ve had payroll IT support guys in that part of the world use their big disk full of virus-laden pirate software to ‘fix’ computers before, and they need a *lot* of education to understand that if they’re working for a multinational company they need to do things differently... Very difficult when the university that taught them computing worked the same way.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Finally, the industry has realised that these sort of rules - enforced composition, frequent change - are self-defeating. Length and non-obviousness are key.

    https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/05/03/no-pointless-password-requirements/

    Diceware is your friend

    http://world.std.com/~reinhold/diceware.html
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Fhamiltontimes: Major unease in senior cop ranks over Damian Green saga - release of confidential, non-criminal material, decade after controversial inquiry

    I have changed my mind over Green.

    Initially I thought that the accusations against him made it compromising on TM as he is effectively the DPM but I am really angry at the action of Quick and fully support Green in his fight against the release of information that is designed to destabilize him following what seems like revenge.

    There is no place in the police for this and I hope Quick is suitable discharged from the inquiry into Green as prejudiced and unreliable thereby negating this unfair intervention
    Interesting conclusion given that no one knows the details of the case.

    Still, a gut feel is a gut feel, I suppose.
    Yes that gut feeling got many a police officer to reach the incorrect outcome . Much prefer evidence.
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    TOPPING said:


    Meanwhile in the East, the sun rises every day.

    My point was that the excellent HoC research briefing didn't bring any clarity to anything. As you say, it notes that the government seems to have ruled out EEA (which entails the things listed), but so what? Doesn't mean we can't opt for EEA. The paper, and perhaps even @Carlotta implies that it is a categorical fact that the UK doesn't want free movement. It is no such thing.

    As you say, the govt has decided that it doesn't want it, but that is not to say it is the defined wish of the people.

    I know we disagree on a lot of things but on this I agree entirely. I don't really think anyone can say for sure what the defined will of the people is beyond the referendum result which was to leave the EU. Anything else including the form that leaving takes seems to me to be up to our elected officials to decide. Unfortunately at the moment the specific section of those elected officials that is in charge of our leaving seems to have decided that a number of viable options should be ignored or discarded.
    So, why not ask the people in a new referendum?
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    Another Catalonia poll out today:

    Spanish only + more Spanish than Catalan + equally Spanish and Catalan = 52%

    More Catalan than Spanish + uniquely Catalan = 41%

    http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20171106/432667415886/encuesta-gad3-la-vanguardia-proceso-soberanista-catalan-no-avanzara-elecciones-catalunya.html
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,362
    edited November 2017
    I know that to the outside world it appears that Rajoy's government have been outrageously heavy handed in this crisis and have fanned the flames. But from what I can gather many Spaniards see things rather differently - even voters who ordinarily despise the man and his PP (like my father-in-law) have respect for the hard line being taken against the separatists.

    What remains to be see is what happens with the Catalan elections next month. A majority vote for separatist parties would create chaos...
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,548
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Mr. Pointer, surely such would've emerged at the time? It's not like Quick would hold back on the truth in order to protect Green.

    I agree Mr. D, that's why I think any hard evidence is unlikely to emerge.

    (Excuse the rather tacky double-entendre!)
    Even if they are office computers , you would think they would have individual log in requirements.Many offices hot desk .
    If they were Parliamentary computers, one would assume they were joined to a Domain and had individual user profiles. @NickPalmer might be able to confirm this one way or the other.

    That’s not to mean that user credentials didn’t get shared out, as any IT guy who’s ever tried to police this in practice will tell you.
    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    Very much so. Education is a big part of it, I usually look at my watch and exclaim “November6th!” - that usually meets the password requirements, rather then people trying to remember long and complicated passwords.
    I find the Correct Horse Battery Staple method to be the best, but unfortunately is usually thwarted by most systems needing AnY n0 of !!^£ and so on.

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    Particularly infuriating are the ones that require you to change your password monthly, which I am sure is just a ruse by the post-it note people to sell more stock.
    There’s an XKCD for everything! :D

    No need to change monthly unless it’s a matter of national security or you find your helpdesk team grossly underworked! 90 days is fine for most organisations and people.
    Indeed many of our users end up with a standard word and then a number, and just increment it every time. So I once learnt that a colleague's password was (say) Queensway63
    I reckon that with a few guesses I could have guessed their changed password at any time in the future by figuring out how many times they would have been forced to change it.

    Far better to have a good password that can't be guessed; in this case the act of requiring changes decreased rather than enhanced security.
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    At the CBI, Capitalism 101 from Corbyn: "When too much of household income is going to pay debts or rent then that’s less money for consumers to spend on productive businesses."

    Why is it that the Tories and their backers appear to have forgotten this basic principle - punters can't buy your product / service if too much of their money goes on the basic cost of living.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,171
    edited November 2017

    At the CBI, Capitalism 101 from Corbyn: "When too much of household income is going to pay debts or rent then that’s less money for consumers to spend on productive businesses."

    Why is it that the Tories and their backers appear to have forgotten this basic principle - punters can't buy your product / service if too much of their money goes on the basic cost of living.

    Which is why Javid and Hammond are pushing a big housebuilding programme while rising interest rates will reduce the tide towards cheap credit.The lowest
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    Boris is Boris, actively putting British citizens in direct danger:
    https://twitter.com/juliamacfarlane/status/927502343578546177
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,405

    TOPPING said:


    Meanwhile in the East, the sun rises every day.

    My point was that the excellent HoC research briefing didn't bring any clarity to anything. As you say, it notes that the government seems to have ruled out EEA (which entails the things listed), but so what? Doesn't mean we can't opt for EEA. The paper, and perhaps even @Carlotta implies that it is a categorical fact that the UK doesn't want free movement. It is no such thing.

    As you say, the govt has decided that it doesn't want it, but that is not to say it is the defined wish of the people.

    I know we disagree on a lot of things but on this I agree entirely. I don't really think anyone can say for sure what the defined will of the people is beyond the referendum result which was to leave the EU. Anything else including the form that leaving takes seems to me to be up to our elected officials to decide. Unfortunately at the moment the specific section of those elected officials that is in charge of our leaving seems to have decided that a number of viable options should be ignored or discarded.
    They seem to be frightened of their own shadows at the moment, which is no way to govern a country. Perhaps as we might find out at the next GE.
  • Options

    At the CBI, Capitalism 101 from Corbyn: "When too much of household income is going to pay debts or rent then that’s less money for consumers to spend on productive businesses."

    Why is it that the Tories and their backers appear to have forgotten this basic principle - punters can't buy your product / service if too much of their money goes on the basic cost of living.

    Paying 50 billion a year in debt interest is obscene and needs addressing
  • Options

    I know that to the outside world it appears that Rajoy's government have been outrageously heavy handed in this crisis and have fanned the flames. But from what I can gather many Spaniards see things rather differently - even voters who ordinarily despise the man and his PP (like my father-in-law) have respect for the hard line being taken against the separatists.

    What remains to be see is what happens with the Catalan elections next month. A majority vote for separatist parties would create chaos...

    You should read the piece I did on this very subject for Political Betting ;-)

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    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    tpfkar said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Mr. Pointer, surely such would've emerged at the time? It's not like Quick would hold back on the truth in order to protect Green.

    I agree Mr. D, that's why I think any hard evidence is unlikely to emerge.

    (Excuse the rather tacky double-entendre!)
    Even if they are office computers , you would think they would have individual log in requirements.Many offices hot desk .

    That’s not to mean that user credentials didn’t get shared out, as any IT guy who’s ever tried to police this in practice will tell you.
    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    Very much so. Education is a big part of it, I usually look at my watch and exclaim “November6th!” - that usually meets the password requirements, rather then people trying to remember long and complicated passwords.
    I find the Correct Horse Battery Staple method to be the best, but unfortunately is usually thwarted by most systems needing AnY n0 of !!^£ and so on.

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    Particularly infuriating are the ones that require you to change your password monthly, which I am sure is just a ruse by the post-it note people to sell more stock.
    There’s an XKCD for everything! :D

    No need to change monthly unless it’s a matter of national security or you find your helpdesk team grossly underworked! 90 days is fine for most organisations and people.
    Indeed many of our users end up with a standard word and then a number, and just increment it every time. So I once learnt that a colleague's password was (say) Queensway63
    I reckon that with a few guesses I could have guessed their changed password at any time in the future by figuring out how many times they would have been forced to change it.

    Far better to have a good password that can't be guessed; in this case the act of requiring changes decreased rather than enhanced security.
    And going back into the office after being on holiday and discovering you've either forgotten the password, or there has been a forced change (and because you can't get into your office mail, you can't get the personal link) and then having to wait on the phone all morning while the IT techies try to deal with all the requests to update......
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,748

    At the CBI, Capitalism 101 from Corbyn: "When too much of household income is going to pay debts or rent then that’s less money for consumers to spend on productive businesses."

    Why is it that the Tories and their backers appear to have forgotten this basic principle - punters can't buy your product / service if too much of their money goes on the basic cost of living.

    Corbyn seems to have missed "or taxes" out of that sentence.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited November 2017

    Another Catalonia poll out today:

    Spanish only + more Spanish than Catalan + equally Spanish and Catalan = 52%

    More Catalan than Spanish + uniquely Catalan = 41%

    http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20171106/432667415886/encuesta-gad3-la-vanguardia-proceso-soberanista-catalan-no-avanzara-elecciones-catalunya.html

    Hmm.

    If I am reading that right from La Vanguardia that breaks down as

    4.9% Only Spanish
    5.1% more Spanish than Catalan
    42.6% equally Spanish/Catalan
    21.1% more Catalan than Spanish
    20.2% Only Catalan.

    Rest, (about 7% I guess) don't know?

    A big "up for grabs/don't care" in the middle and more enthusiastic Catalans than Spaniards is how I would read that.
  • Options

    At the CBI, Capitalism 101 from Corbyn: "When too much of household income is going to pay debts or rent then that’s less money for consumers to spend on productive businesses."

    Why is it that the Tories and their backers appear to have forgotten this basic principle - punters can't buy your product / service if too much of their money goes on the basic cost of living.

    Paying 50 billion a year in debt interest is obscene and needs addressing
    Indeed. And as its apparent that we can't cut our way back to prosperity we'll have to grow our way out. Raise more tax by having more people buy shit by paying them a little more and capping the excess cost of living absurdities
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Even if they are office computers , you would think they would have individual log in requirements.Many offices hot desk .
    If they were Parliamentary computers, one would assume they were joined to a Domain and had individual user profiles. @NickPalmer might be able to confirm this one way or the other.

    That’s not to mean that user credentials didn’t get shared out, as any IT guy who’s ever tried to police this in practice will tell you.
    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    Very much so. Education is a big part of it, I usually look at my watch and exclaim “November6th!” - that usually meets the password requirements, rather then people trying to remember long and complicated passwords.
    I find the Correct Horse Battery Staple method to be the best, but unfortunately is usually thwarted by most systems needing AnY n0 of !!^£ and so on.

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    Particularly infuriating are the ones that require you to change your password monthly, which I am sure is just a ruse by the post-it note people to sell more stock.
    Finally, the industry has realised that these sort of rules - enforced composition, frequent change - are self-defeating. Length and non-obviousness are key.

    https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/05/03/no-pointless-password-requirements/
    That’s a good article, but doesn’t really differentiate between passwords required for users of a web service and passwords for login to a corporate network.

    For login to a web service, the most important consideration is that you use a different password for each service. Ask the celebrities who had their Apple and Google accounts hacked after the Yahoo password database got hacked.

    2FA dependent on a mobile phone sucks, for almost every use of it.

    For login to a corporate network, the key requirements are that passwords don’t get written down yet are easily memorable. Another major requirement is that passwords are changed regularly to exclude non-authorised users or those who no longer work for the company.

    Every three months, or whenever an IT staff member left, we would have a “password party”, where all the service account and network admin passwords got changed. Usually accompanied by pizza. :)
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    At the CBI, Capitalism 101 from Corbyn: "When too much of household income is going to pay debts or rent then that’s less money for consumers to spend on productive businesses."

    Why is it that the Tories and their backers appear to have forgotten this basic principle - punters can't buy your product / service if too much of their money goes on the basic cost of living.

    Paying 50 billion a year in debt interest is obscene and needs addressing
    Indeed. And as its apparent that we can't cut our way back to prosperity we'll have to grow our way out. Raise more tax by having more people buy shit by paying them a little more and capping the excess cost of living absurdities
    Don't we do that already seeing as we have an astronomical current account deficit ?

    We need to produce more I'd argue...
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    Pulpstar said:



    We need to produce more I'd argue...

    The Tories think the opposite. That the best thing for a manufacturing base currently plugged into a global just in time supply network is to pull out the plug from our biggest source of components so that everything gets slowed down at huge expense by having to get through a hard EU border.

    There will be an effect on manufacturing, but it won't be "more".
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    At the CBI, Capitalism 101 from Corbyn: "When too much of household income is going to pay debts or rent then that’s less money for consumers to spend on productive businesses."

    Why is it that the Tories and their backers appear to have forgotten this basic principle - punters can't buy your product / service if too much of their money goes on the basic cost of living.

    Paying 50 billion a year in debt interest is obscene and needs addressing
    Conservatives need to be shouting this from the rooftops - we are currently spending half of the NHS budget on paying our debts. Or, if we want to be party-political about it, paying Labour’s debts. We are still £50bn a year away from balancing the books, which needs to happen urgently before we hit the next recession.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Even if they are office computers , you would think they would have individual log in requirements.Many offices hot desk .
    If they were Parliamentary computers, one would assume they were joined to a Domain and had individual user profiles. @NickPalmer might be able to confirm this one way or the other.

    That’s not to mean that user credentials didn’t get shared out, as any IT guy who’s ever tried to police this in practice will tell you.
    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    Very much so. Education is a big part of it, I usually look at my watch and exclaim “November6th!” - that usually meets the password requirements, rather then people trying to remember long and complicated passwords.
    ...................

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    ..................
    Finally, the industry has realised that these sort of rules - enforced composition, frequent change - are self-defeating. Length and non-obviousness are key.

    https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/05/03/no-pointless-password-requirements/
    That’s a good article, but doesn’t really differentiate between passwords required for users of a web service and passwords for login to a corporate network.

    For login to a web service, the most important consideration is that you use a different password for each service. Ask the celebrities who had their Apple and Google accounts hacked after the Yahoo password database got hacked.

    2FA dependent on a mobile phone sucks, for almost every use of it.

    For login to a corporate network, the key requirements are that passwords don’t get written down yet are easily memorable. Another major requirement is that passwords are changed regularly to exclude non-authorised users or those who no longer work for the company.

    Every three months, or whenever an IT staff member left, we would have a “password party”, where all the service account and network admin passwords got changed. Usually accompanied by pizza. :)
    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    AndyJS said:

    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?

    2FA, biometrics, face recognition

    As Dizzythinks noted the other day, his daughter will grow up thinking speaking to computers is the standard mode of interaction
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    welshowl said:

    Another Catalonia poll out today:

    Spanish only + more Spanish than Catalan + equally Spanish and Catalan = 52%

    More Catalan than Spanish + uniquely Catalan = 41%

    http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20171106/432667415886/encuesta-gad3-la-vanguardia-proceso-soberanista-catalan-no-avanzara-elecciones-catalunya.html

    Hmm.

    If I am reading that right from La Vanguardia that breaks down as

    4.9% Only Spanish
    5.1% more Spanish than Catalan
    42.6% equally Spanish/Catalan
    21.1% more Catalan than Spanish
    20.2% Only Catalan.

    Rest, (about 7% I guess) don't know?

    A big "up for grabs/don't care" in the middle and more enthusiastic Catalans than Spaniards is how I would read that.
    Difficult to argue with that reading.
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Passwords


    There is also a need that the geeks in IT realise that those that just use computers as tools, just want them to switch on and "go" and "stop" and not "crash" have limited patience with the endless twatting about they seem to get off on, and that many of us have stopped using various services from various companies because they have just made life so bloody inconvenient and hard for us poor saps.

    Security is important, sure, and if I'm guarding the nuclear codes I can understand the need to go to the nth degree. If it's the weekly shop at Lidl, not so much. Just pick something utterly 100% unique to your life surely, as a password, that others genuinely cannot know (it's not hard), and that should stop most stuff dead in the water? No?
  • Options
    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578
    Sandpit said:

    At the CBI, Capitalism 101 from Corbyn: "When too much of household income is going to pay debts or rent then that’s less money for consumers to spend on productive businesses."

    Why is it that the Tories and their backers appear to have forgotten this basic principle - punters can't buy your product / service if too much of their money goes on the basic cost of living.

    Paying 50 billion a year in debt interest is obscene and needs addressing
    Conservatives need to be shouting this from the rooftops - we are currently spending half of the NHS budget on paying our debts. Or, if we want to be party-political about it, paying Labour’s debts. We are still £50bn a year away from balancing the books, which needs to happen urgently before we hit the next recession.
    The problem for the Tories is that nearly 40% of the total national debt has been borrowed since 2010. Their credentials as the party of sound finance are seriously tarnished.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,171
    Sandpit said:

    At the CBI, Capitalism 101 from Corbyn: "When too much of household income is going to pay debts or rent then that’s less money for consumers to spend on productive businesses."

    Why is it that the Tories and their backers appear to have forgotten this basic principle - punters can't buy your product / service if too much of their money goes on the basic cost of living.

    Paying 50 billion a year in debt interest is obscene and needs addressing
    Conservatives need to be shouting this from the rooftops - we are currently spending half of the NHS budget on paying our debts. Or, if we want to be party-political about it, paying Labour’s debts. We are still £50bn a year away from balancing the books, which needs to happen urgently before we hit the next recession.
    Osborne planned to take spending down to 35% of gdp, the same percentage we raise in tax.

    However after the Tories lost their majority that went by the wayside. With spending having fallen from 49% of gdp to 42% now it may be the remainder of the deficit will have to be elimated by tax rises if that is a priority. That would be Corbyn's argument anyway.
  • Options

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Why? She represents a form of Torism that was once the mainstream, before the Brexit virus wrecked the party. Heath, Thatcher, Major - none of them would be doing Hard Brexit.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited November 2017
    welshowl said:

    Security is important, sure, and if I'm guarding the nuclear codes I can understand the need to go to the nth degree. If it's the weekly shop at Lidl, not so much. Just pick something utterly 100% unique to your life surely, as a password, that others genuinely cannot know (it's not hard), and that should stop most stuff dead in the water? No?

    No

    As noted upthread, use a different password for every service.

    That way, if your email service provider loses your password, the bad guys can't empty your bank account.

    Password managers make it easy to generate and store lots of passwords.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems

    She is complaining that the Tories are no longer the party of business, and your solution is that she crosses the floor?

    Ummmm...
  • Options
    Scott_P said:

    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems

    She is complaining that the Tories are no longer the party of business, and your solution is that she crosses the floor?

    Ummmm...
    She is a hard remainer, shares platforms with Nick Clegg, and is actively trying to derail Brexit.
  • Options
    welshowl said:

    Another Catalonia poll out today:

    Spanish only + more Spanish than Catalan + equally Spanish and Catalan = 52%

    More Catalan than Spanish + uniquely Catalan = 41%

    http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20171106/432667415886/encuesta-gad3-la-vanguardia-proceso-soberanista-catalan-no-avanzara-elecciones-catalunya.html

    Hmm.

    If I am reading that right from La Vanguardia that breaks down as

    4.9% Only Spanish
    5.1% more Spanish than Catalan
    42.6% equally Spanish/Catalan
    21.1% more Catalan than Spanish
    20.2% Only Catalan.

    Rest, (about 7% I guess) don't know?

    A big "up for grabs/don't care" in the middle and more enthusiastic Catalans than Spaniards is how I would read that.

    Yep - the Catalan identity is deeply felt by many Catalans, and it is undoubtedly the case that there is only a very small minority in Catalonia who feel a general Spanish identity more strongly than a Catalan one. But what those figures show is a lot of nuance. I lived there for five years and the dual identity was the one I came across most commonly. The die-hard, Spain is Africa, Catalans were generally regarded as being a bit odd. The point of my article is that the actions of PP in Madrid over the last 10 years have given them an opening and they have exploited it brilliantly, but that even now there is no overwhelming clamour for freedom from the yoke of Madrid. The solution is more autonomy.

  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:

    welshowl said:

    Security is important, sure, and if I'm guarding the nuclear codes I can understand the need to go to the nth degree. If it's the weekly shop at Lidl, not so much. Just pick something utterly 100% unique to your life surely, as a password, that others genuinely cannot know (it's not hard), and that should stop most stuff dead in the water? No?

    No

    As noted upthread, use a different password for every service.

    That way, if your email service provider loses your password, the bad guys can't empty your bank account.

    Password managers make it easy to generate a store lots of passwords.
    I don't use the same password (to clarify that) but I do use things that I know to be 100% unique and can remember.

    I have zero time for 1!%7ghtYY-+ZZgT sort of passwords that some idiot demands you then change to uuThsqm,sd79238975bsdjh in three months time.

    It just means more writing stuff down using a quill instead to avoid it.
  • Options
    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    welshowl said:

    Security is important, sure, and if I'm guarding the nuclear codes I can understand the need to go to the nth degree. If it's the weekly shop at Lidl, not so much. Just pick something utterly 100% unique to your life surely, as a password, that others genuinely cannot know (it's not hard), and that should stop most stuff dead in the water? No?

    An attack can trying several thousand password per second across the internet, and several tens of millions of passwords per second if he has stolen the password file from the server, even on commodity hardware you can get for a couple of grand. There are ways to mitigate this but they all cost money and are way less commonly used than you might hope!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary_attack
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_attack

    If they get into your weekly shop at Lidl they are buying things on your credit card ;)
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    Security is important, sure, and if I'm guarding the nuclear codes I can understand the need to go to the nth degree. If it's the weekly shop at Lidl, not so much. Just pick something utterly 100% unique to your life surely, as a password, that others genuinely cannot know (it's not hard), and that should stop most stuff dead in the water? No?

    An attack can trying several thousand password per second across the internet, and several tens of millions of passwords per second if he has stolen the password file from the server, even on commodity hardware you can get for a couple of grand. There are ways to mitigate this but they all cost money and are way less commonly used than you might hope!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary_attack
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brute-force_attack

    If they get into your weekly shop at Lidl they are buying things on your credit card ;)
    Oh well quill and parchment it is!
  • Options
    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Spain needs to call a legal referendum. The separatists only received a turnout of 48% and have no mandate for the independence they declared.

    Its bad news for Sturgeon and the Scottish separatists. I cant see Spain voting for an independent Scotland being admitted to the EU.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,040
    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Even if they are office computers , you would think they would have individual log in requirements.Many offices hot desk .
    If they were Parliamentary computers, one would assume they were joined to a Domain and had individual user profiles. @NickPalmer might be able to confirm this one way or the other.

    That’s not to mean that user credentials didn’t get shared out, as any IT guy who’s ever tried to police this in practice will tell you.
    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    Very much so. Education is a big part of it, I usually look at my watch and exclaim “November6th!” - that usually meets the password requirements, rather then people trying to remember long and complicated passwords.
    I find the Correct Horse Battery Staple method to be the best, but unfortunately is usually thwarted by most systems needing AnY n0 of !!^£ and so on.

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    Particularly infuriating are the ones that require you to change your password monthly, which I am sure is just a ruse by the post-it note people to sell more stock.
    Finally, the industry has realised that these sort of rules - enforced composition, frequent change - are self-defeating. Length and non-obviousness are key.

    https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/05/03/no-pointless-password-requirements/
    That’s a good article, but doesn’t really differentiate between passwords required for users of a web service and passwords for login to a corporate network.

    For login to a web service, the most important consideration is that you use a different password for each service. Ask the celebrities who had their Apple and Google accounts hacked after the Yahoo password database got hacked.

    2FA dependent on a mobile phone sucks, for almost every use of it.

    For login to a corporate network, the key requirements are that passwords don’t get written down yet are easily memorable. Another major requirement is that passwords are changed regularly to exclude non-authorised users or those who no longer work for the company.

    Every three months, or whenever an IT staff member left, we would have a “password party”, where all the service account and network admin passwords got changed. Usually accompanied by pizza. :)
    This is the most boring discussion in the history of PB.com.
  • Options
    Scott_P said:
    It was only a matter of time, sadly.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,171

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Why? She represents a form of Torism that was once the mainstream, before the Brexit virus wrecked the party. Heath, Thatcher, Major - none of them would be doing Hard Brexit.
    Latter years post Premiership Thatcher would be.

    Before she died she backed Redwood against Major in 1995 in private and she backed Hague and IDS publicly against Clarke in 1997 and 2001 and Fox and Davis privately against Cameron in 2005.

  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Why? She represents a form of Torism that was once the mainstream, before the Brexit virus wrecked the party. Heath, Thatcher, Major - none of them would be doing Hard Brexit.
    It'd be the classic "the party has moved away from me" case. She's hinted in public that she'd be up for a new centrist party. A local problem is that it'd be difficult to retain the seat - the LibDems have declined into insignificance at Parliamentary level (though still have a good Borough Council presence), and Labour will select its candidate this month.
  • Options
    stevef said:

    Spain needs to call a legal referendum. The separatists only received a turnout of 48% and have no mandate for the independence they declared.

    Its bad news for Sturgeon and the Scottish separatists. I cant see Spain voting for an independent Scotland being admitted to the EU.

    But a bigger percentage of the Catalonia electorate voted Si than the UK electorate did for Brexit. Why is one less valid than the other?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Why? She represents a form of Torism that was once the mainstream, before the Brexit virus wrecked the party. Heath, Thatcher, Major - none of them would be doing Hard Brexit.
    Latter years post Premiership Thatcher would be.

    Before she died she backed Redwood against Major in 1995 in private and she backed Hague and IDS publicly against Clarke in 1997 and 2001 and Fox and Davis privately against Cameron in 2005.

    By then, she was a shadow of her former self.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Why? She represents a form of Torism that was once the mainstream, before the Brexit virus wrecked the party. Heath, Thatcher, Major - none of them would be doing Hard Brexit.
    It'd be the classic "the party has moved away from me" case. She's hinted in public that she'd be up for a new centrist party. A local problem is that it'd be difficult to retain the seat - the LibDems have declined into insignificance at Parliamentary level (though still have a good Borough Council presence), and Labour will select its candidate this month.
    Are you saying she should go for it?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Why? She represents a form of Torism that was once the mainstream, before the Brexit virus wrecked the party. Heath, Thatcher, Major - none of them would be doing Hard Brexit.
    It'd be the classic "the party has moved away from me" case. She's hinted in public that she'd be up for a new centrist party. A local problem is that it'd be difficult to retain the seat - the LibDems have declined into insignificance at Parliamentary level (though still have a good Borough Council presence), and Labour will select its candidate this month.
    Are you saying she should go for it?
    I wouldn't presume to advise, and any advice I gave would be regarded as suspect. I was genuinely just indicating a possible reason why she might hesitate. Ultimately i expect that political considerations will trump tactical ones.
  • Options
    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Echoes of the Corbynite refrain of "if you don't like it, fuck off and join the Tories".

    The headbanger wing of the Tories has more in common with Momentum than either would care to admit.
  • Options

    Clearly there’s bad blood between Quick and Green and one would think it dates back to before 2008. Green’s wife is, or at least was, a barrister; is there something between her and Quick.

    Unlikely since Alicia specialises in Family Law:

    http://www.harcourtchambers.co.uk/index.aspx?p=73&barristerId=40

    TBH this all sounds like a copper with a grudge against “the one who got away” in his view. Worth comparing the Wiki article with the sworn testimony to Leveson -Quick was “undermined” by The Met....
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Tories are having a real crisis of confidence. Not so much a big tent, more a circus.
  • Options

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Why? She represents a form of Torism that was once the mainstream, before the Brexit virus wrecked the party. Heath, Thatcher, Major - none of them would be doing Hard Brexit.
    It'd be the classic "the party has moved away from me" case. She's hinted in public that she'd be up for a new centrist party. A local problem is that it'd be difficult to retain the seat - the LibDems have declined into insignificance at Parliamentary level (though still have a good Borough Council presence), and Labour will select its candidate this month.
    Are you saying she should go for it?
    I wouldn't presume to advise, and any advice I gave would be regarded as suspect. I was genuinely just indicating a possible reason why she might hesitate. Ultimately i expect that political considerations will trump tactical ones.
    Or she can stay and fight. It is not if she is only one on the Tory backbenches.
  • Options
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:



    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    Very much so. Education is a big part of it, I usually look at my watch and exclaim “November6th!” - that usually meets the password requirements, rather then people trying to remember long and complicated passwords.
    I find the Correct Horse Battery Staple method to be the best, but unfortunately is usually thwarted by most systems needing AnY n0 of !!^£ and so on.

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    Particularly infuriating are the ones that require you to change your password monthly, which I am sure is just a ruse by the post-it note people to sell more stock.
    Finally, the industry has realised that these sort of rules - enforced composition, frequent change - are self-defeating. Length and non-obviousness are key.

    https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/05/03/no-pointless-password-requirements/
    That’s a good article, but doesn’t really differentiate between passwords required for users of a web service and passwords for login to a corporate network.

    For login to a web service, the most important consideration is that you use a different password for each service. Ask the celebrities who had their Apple and Google accounts hacked after the Yahoo password database got hacked.

    2FA dependent on a mobile phone sucks, for almost every use of it.

    For login to a corporate network, the key requirements are that passwords don’t get written down yet are easily memorable. Another major requirement is that passwords are changed regularly to exclude non-authorised users or those who no longer work for the company.

    Every three months, or whenever an IT staff member left, we would have a “password party”, where all the service account and network admin passwords got changed. Usually accompanied by pizza. :)
    This is the most boring discussion in the history of PB.com.
    Oooooh....not so sure about that. The bar is set pretty high on that one.

    I remember a late nite discussion of a by-election result in Epping. Just the thought has me nodding off.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    @SouthamObserver Thanks for penning your reflections on Spain. Begs questions about the policies of PSOE as well.

    As for Rajoy and Puigdemont, F E Smith's comments about the stupidity of both Mine Owners & Mining Union Leaders springs to mind.
  • Options

    Clearly there’s bad blood between Quick and Green and one would think it dates back to before 2008. Green’s wife is, or at least was, a barrister; is there something between her and Quick.

    Unlikely since Alicia specialises in Family Law:

    http://www.harcourtchambers.co.uk/index.aspx?p=73&barristerId=40

    TBH this all sounds like a copper with a grudge against “the one who got away” in his view. Worth comparing the Wiki article with the sworn testimony to Leveson -Quick was “undermined” by The Met....
    IIRC There is a lot of bad blood between Mrs Green and the police, she was there when they conducted the search, and she found their behaviour appalling/heavy handed.

    Police searches of [Green's] homes left him feeling as if he had been burgled, he said. Officers rifled through his love letters to his wife and reduced his 15-year-old daughter to tears. His wife, Alicia Collinson, said that the officers had told her that they would have taken a sledgehammer to the door if she hadn’t been at home. “The whole place feels tainted,” she said. “They went through the most personal things. They took photographs as they were working their way through the house. Every so often I find myself doing something and thinking ‘They have pictures of this now.’ ”

    She told the Daily Mail that officers leafed through her daughter’s recorder music book. “What on earth they thought they would find . . . It was like being burgled and having to watch.”

  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Why? She represents a form of Torism that was once the mainstream, before the Brexit virus wrecked the party. Heath, Thatcher, Major - none of them would be doing Hard Brexit.
    It'd be the classic "the party has moved away from me" case. She's hinted in public that she'd be up for a new centrist party. A local problem is that it'd be difficult to retain the seat - the LibDems have declined into insignificance at Parliamentary level (though still have a good Borough Council presence), and Labour will select its candidate this month.
    Are you saying she should go for it?
    I wish she would. Neither Liberal nor Democratic. the Lib Dems would be perfect for her.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    edited November 2017
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:



    For login to a corporate network, the key requirements are that passwords don’t get written down yet are easily memorable. Another major requirement is that passwords are changed regularly to exclude non-authorised users or those who no longer work for the company.

    Every three months, or whenever an IT staff member left, we would have a “password party”, where all the service account and network admin passwords got changed. Usually accompanied by pizza. :)

    This is the most boring discussion in the history of PB.com.
    More to the point, it's really bad security advice. Making people change passwords all the time is a terrible idea, and if you've got lots of people sharing the same password then you're doing it wrong. And writing down passwords is often a good idea, depending what you're trying to protect against.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,608
    edited November 2017
    I've been told this is another reason Bob Quick/The Rozzers don't like Damian Green/The Tories.

    From 2009.

    “I thought that he [Bob Quick] shouldn’t be in charge of the anti-terror squad because the day they arrested me was the day of the Mumbai bombings. Al-Qaeda might have been trying to do a worldwide spectacular.

    It did seem to me that to have 25 of the anti-terror squad going through my bank statements and my bed was not what the head of the anti-terror squad should have wanted.”
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Dura_Ace said:



    This is the most boring discussion in the history of PB.com.

    Time to revisit AV, how about a new thread?

  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?

    Probably not. Passwords are hashed with algorithms that are designed to be a little bit slow to try. As computers in general get faster, we increase the little bit.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    AndyJS said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:
    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    Very much so. Education is a big part of it, I usually look at my watch and exclaim “November6th!” - that usually meets the password requirements, rather then people trying to remember long and complicated passwords.
    ...................

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    ..................
    Finally, the industry has realised that these sort of rules - enforced composition, frequent change - are self-defeating. Length and non-obviousness are key.

    https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/05/03/no-pointless-password-requirements/
    That’s a good article, but doesn’t really differentiate between passwords required for users of a web service and passwords for login to a corporate network.

    For login to a web service, the most important consideration is that you use a different password for each service. Ask the celebrities who had their Apple and Google accounts hacked after the Yahoo password database got hacked.

    2FA dependent on a mobile phone sucks, for almost every use of it.

    For login to a corporate network, the key requirements are that passwords don’t get written down yet are easily memorable. Another major requirement is that passwords are changed regularly to exclude non-authorised users or those who no longer work for the company.

    Every three months, or whenever an IT staff member left, we would have a “password party”, where all the service account and network admin passwords got changed. Usually accompanied by pizza. :)
    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?
    Better systems. Systems that if you get the password wrong deny you for a few seconds, or that flag to administrators if someone is repeatedly getting their password wrong. Other-factor authentication such as account information for another trusted service, biometrics.

    You’re right to hint at what could be a huge problem of stolen identities though. If someone effectively steals your fingerprints you’re f***ed.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,790
    edited November 2017

    Clearly there’s bad blood between Quick and Green and one would think it dates back to before 2008. Green’s wife is, or at least was, a barrister; is there something between her and Quick.

    Unlikely since Alicia specialises in Family Law:

    http://www.harcourtchambers.co.uk/index.aspx?p=73&barristerId=40

    TBH this all sounds like a copper with a grudge against “the one who got away” in his view. Worth comparing the Wiki article with the sworn testimony to Leveson -Quick was “undermined” by The Met....
    IIRC There is a lot of bad blood between Mrs Green and the police, she was there when they conducted the search, and she found their behaviour appalling/heavy handed.

    Police searches of [Green's] homes left him feeling as if he had been burgled, he said. Officers rifled through his love letters to his wife and reduced his 15-year-old daughter to tears. His wife, Alicia Collinson, said that the officers had told her that they would have taken a sledgehammer to the door if she hadn’t been at home. “The whole place feels tainted,” she said. “They went through the most personal things. They took photographs as they were working their way through the house. Every so often I find myself doing something and thinking ‘They have pictures of this now.’ ”

    She told the Daily Mail that officers leafed through her daughter’s recorder music book. “What on earth they thought they would find . . . It was like being burgled and having to watch.”

    Yes - but it didn’t predate Quick’s raids and arrests. And given Green telling them immediately and voluntarily where to find the material they were looking for in the HoC (file marked “Animal Activists”) it seems more than a little heavy handed.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    After we can whip her on the Brexit votes though! She can defect in April 2019, along with Heidi Allen.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Jonathan said:

    Tories are having a real crisis of confidence. Not so much a big tent, more a circus.

    Politics is having a crisis of confidence.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,171
    edited November 2017

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Perhaps Kate Hoey and Frank Field could join the Tories at the same time?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,748
    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:
    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    ...................

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    ..................
    Finally, the industry has realised that these sort of rules - enforced composition, frequent change - are self-defeating. Length and non-obviousness are key.

    https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/05/03/no-pointless-password-requirements/
    That’s a good article, but doesn’t really differentiate between passwords required for users of a web service and passwords for login to a corporate network.

    For login to a web service, the most important consideration is that you use a different password for each service. Ask the celebrities who had their Apple and Google accounts hacked after the Yahoo password database got hacked.

    2FA dependent on a mobile phone sucks, for almost every use of it.

    For login to a corporate network, the key requirements are that passwords don’t get written down yet are easily memorable. Another major requirement is that passwords are changed regularly to exclude non-authorised users or those who no longer work for the company.

    Every three months, or whenever an IT staff member left, we would have a “password party”, where all the service account and network admin passwords got changed. Usually accompanied by pizza. :)
    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?
    Better systems. Systems that if you get the password wrong deny you for a few seconds, or that flag to administrators if someone is repeatedly getting their password wrong. Other-factor authentication such as account information for another trusted service, biometrics.

    You’re right to hint at what could be a huge problem of stolen identities though. If someone effectively steals your fingerprints you’re f***ed.
    @AndyJS

    They have been saying that (along with the "Omigod computers/robots are going to mean there aren't any jobs" trope) for about half a century now.
  • Options
    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:
    If the password requires numbers, capital letters, funny symbols, etc, just keep checking desks until you find a post-it note with username and password written down. Takes about 30 seconds in my experience...
    Very much so. Education is a big part of it, I usually look at my watch and exclaim “November6th!” - that usually meets the password requirements, rather then people trying to remember long and complicated passwords.
    ...................

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    ..................
    Finally, the industry has realised that these sort of rules - enforced composition, frequent change - are self-defeating. Length and non-obviousness are key.

    https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/05/03/no-pointless-password-requirements/
    That’s a good article, but doesn’t really differentiate between passwords required for users of a web service and passwords for login to a corporate network.

    For login to a web service, the most important consideration is that you use a different password for each service. Ask the celebrities who had their Apple and Google accounts hacked after the Yahoo password database got hacked.

    2FA dependent on a mobile phone sucks, for almost every use of it.

    For login to a corporate network, the key requirements are that passwords don’t get written down yet are easily memorable. Another major requirement is that passwords are changed regularly to exclude non-authorised users or those who no longer work for the company.

    Every three months, or whenever an IT staff member left, we would have a “password party”, where all the service account and network admin passwords got changed. Usually accompanied by pizza. :)
    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?
    Better systems. Systems that if you get the password wrong deny you for a few seconds, or that flag to administrators if someone is repeatedly getting their password wrong. Other-factor authentication such as account information for another trusted service, biometrics.
    I think password databases being stolen then cracked (or just being in plaintext because for some reason that still isn't illegal) is a much more common form of attack than repeated remote login attempts
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    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    After we can whip her on the Brexit votes though! She can defect in April 2019, along with Heidi Allen.
    She does have a point though?

    Ask yourself, why is the kind of Toryism Anna Soubry espouses is the only kind of Toryism to have won a majority in the last quarter of a century.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Perhaps Kate Hoey and Frank Field could join the Tories at the same time?
    I have this vision that, at some point in the next couple of years, there will be a photo of Kate Hoey and Ken Clarke taken in a Commons bar with gins and tonics in front of them, just as a key Brexit vote was happening.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?

    Better systems. Systems that if you get the password wrong deny you for a few seconds, or that flag to administrators if someone is repeatedly getting their password wrong. Other-factor authentication such as account information for another trusted service, biometrics.

    You’re right to hint at what could be a huge problem of stolen identities though. If someone effectively steals your fingerprints you’re f***ed.
    Such software already exists and we use it on our equipment. Basically you get a set number of tries at a password and if you fail then all further logins from your address are blocked for a period of time.

    It is very configurable. For example, for email boxes we set that failure of 6 tries in any 5 minute period bans you for 30 mins. Combined with suitably long passwords that nullifies almost all brute-force attacks.

    For more sensitive services such as console logins, we allow 3 tries in any 3 minute period and ban you for 6 hours on failure.

    There are other precautions we take too, but this software has seen attacks against our servers reduce dramatically since its introduction and the servers are more lightly loaded as well since they are not invalidating dud logins all day long.
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    Least shocking news....entertainers in tax avoidance...

    Paradise Papers: Mrs Brown's Boys stars 'diverted £2m in offshore tax dodge'

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    Mr. Observer, sorry for the slow reply, but that's an atrocious misjudgement by Boris. I've said for months he isn't fit to be Foreign Secretary, but he really needs to correct this immediately.

    What a ****ing clown.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950

    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Yorkcity said:
    ...................

    https://xkcd.com/936/

    ..................
    Finally, the industry has realised that these sort of rules - enforced composition, frequent change - are self-defeating. Length and non-obviousness are key.

    https://www.welivesecurity.com/2017/05/03/no-pointless-password-requirements/
    That’s a good article, but doesn’t really differentiate between passwords required for users of a web service and passwords for login to a corporate network.

    For login to a web service, the most important consideration is that you use a different password for each service. Ask the celebrities who had their Apple and Google accounts hacked after the Yahoo password database got hacked.

    2FA dependent on a mobile phone sucks, for almost every use of it.

    For login to a corporate network, the key requirements are that passwords don’t get written down yet are easily memorable. Another major requirement is that passwords are changed regularly to exclude non-authorised users or those who no longer work for the company.

    Every three months, or whenever an IT staff member left, we would have a “password party”, where all the service account and network admin passwords got changed. Usually accompanied by pizza. :)
    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?
    Better systems. Systems that if you get the password wrong deny you for a few seconds, or that flag to administrators if someone is repeatedly getting their password wrong. Other-factor authentication such as account information for another trusted service, biometrics.
    I think password databases being stolen then cracked (or just being in plaintext because for some reason that still isn't illegal) is a much more common form of attack than repeated remote login attempts
    Yes, which is why it’s essential that your Tesco Clubcard password won’t get you into your bank account or Apple Cloud account where all your pictures live.

    The reason the Equifax hack is such a problem in the US, is that many companies over there use your SSN (equvalent of NI number) as a password, rather than as a username.
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    Anyone else should say sorry for having investments offshore, Mr Corbyn?

    https://twitter.com/TelegraphNews/status/927526762702970881
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    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?

    Better systems. Systems that if you get the password wrong deny you for a few seconds, or that flag to administrators if someone is repeatedly getting their password wrong. Other-factor authentication such as account information for another trusted service, biometrics.

    You’re right to hint at what could be a huge problem of stolen identities though. If someone effectively steals your fingerprints you’re f***ed.
    Such software already exists and we use it on our equipment. Basically you get a set number of tries at a password and if you fail then all further logins from your address are blocked for a period of time.

    It is very configurable. For example, for email boxes we set that failure of 6 tries in any 5 minute period bans you for 30 mins. Combined with suitably long passwords that nullifies almost all brute-force attacks.

    For more sensitive services such as console logins, we allow 3 tries in any 3 minute period and ban you for 6 hours on failure.

    There are other precautions we take too, but this software has seen attacks against our servers reduce dramatically since its introduction and the servers are more lightly loaded as well since they are not invalidating dud logins all day long.
    Here's a good story about someone forgetting a password to $30k+ worth of Bitcoin. Every time he got it wrong, the time before he could try again doubled:

    https://www.wired.com/story/i-forgot-my-pin-an-epic-tale-of-losing-dollar30000-in-bitcoin/
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,171

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    After we can whip her on the Brexit votes though! She can defect in April 2019, along with Heidi Allen.
    She does have a point though?

    Ask yourself, why is the kind of Toryism Anna Soubry espouses is the only kind of Toryism to have won a majority in the last quarter of a century.
    Cameron only won a majority after proposing a referendum on membership of the EU
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,171
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    Perhaps Kate Hoey and Frank Field could join the Tories at the same time?
    I have this vision that, at some point in the next couple of years, there will be a photo of Kate Hoey and Ken Clarke taken in a Commons bar with gins and tonics in front of them, just as a key Brexit vote was happening.
    They certainly cancel each other out
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited November 2017
    Deary me, I don't know about tax advice, this guy needs PR advice!

    Houlihan said the actors had been seeking to defer their tax bills, not avoid them, but he had had reservations about signing up to the scheme.

    “I was told the money went to a trust and it wasn’t mine until I received it, and I didn’t have to pay any tax until I got the money,” he said. “I was in control of when I would pay the tax.”

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    edited November 2017

    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    Surely it's the case that before long computers will be able to overcome any password or combination of passwords that can be memorised by a human being. What happens then?

    Better systems. Systems that if you get the password wrong deny you for a few seconds, or that flag to administrators if someone is repeatedly getting their password wrong. Other-factor authentication such as account information for another trusted service, biometrics.

    You’re right to hint at what could be a huge problem of stolen identities though. If someone effectively steals your fingerprints you’re f***ed.
    Such software already exists and we use it on our equipment. Basically you get a set number of tries at a password and if you fail then all further logins from your address are blocked for a period of time.

    It is very configurable. For example, for email boxes we set that failure of 6 tries in any 5 minute period bans you for 30 mins. Combined with suitably long passwords that nullifies almost all brute-force attacks.

    For more sensitive services such as console logins, we allow 3 tries in any 3 minute period and ban you for 6 hours on failure.

    There are other precautions we take too, but this software has seen attacks against our servers reduce dramatically since its introduction and the servers are more lightly loaded as well since they are not invalidating dud logins all day long.
    Yes, its now easy to deflect this crap before it hits the actual server. It’s quite scary just how many login attempts an internet-facing server gets from hacking attempts. It’s a couple of orders of magnitude more than the number of legit logins on the servers I admin.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Sandpit said:

    You’re right to hint at what could be a huge problem of stolen identities though. If someone effectively steals your fingerprints you’re f***ed.

    Biometrics are not the answer. For a start they are simply not reliable enough and secondly they seem to have too many get-arounds.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30623611
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    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    After we can whip her on the Brexit votes though! She can defect in April 2019, along with Heidi Allen.
    She does have a point though?

    Ask yourself, why is the kind of Toryism Anna Soubry espouses is the only kind of Toryism to have won a majority in the last quarter of a century.
    Cameron only won a majority after proposing a referendum on membership of the EU
    Rubbish, there's polling that says otherwise, things like leadership, stewardship of the economy were the big drivers behind the Tory vote.

    If people really voted the way you suggested, the UKIP's share of the vote would have collapsed in 2015 from their 2010 share.
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    Mr. Eagles, I mostly agree on UKIP/economy, but that does neglect Cameron might have lost more MPs/ground to UKIP had he not made such a promise.

    Of course, if Labour hadn't reneged upon a Lisbon referendum, we'd be in a very different position.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    edited November 2017

    Clearly there’s bad blood between Quick and Green and one would think it dates back to before 2008. Green’s wife is, or at least was, a barrister; is there something between her and Quick.

    Unlikely since Alicia specialises in Family Law:

    http://www.harcourtchambers.co.uk/index.aspx?p=73&barristerId=40

    TBH this all sounds like a copper with a grudge against “the one who got away” in his view. Worth comparing the Wiki article with the sworn testimony to Leveson -Quick was “undermined” by The Met....
    IIRC There is a lot of bad blood between Mrs Green and the police, she was there when they conducted the search, and she found their behaviour appalling/heavy handed.

    Police searches of [Green's] homes left him feeling as if he had been burgled, he said. Officers rifled through his love letters to his wife and reduced his 15-year-old daughter to tears. His wife, Alicia Collinson, said that the officers had told her that they would have taken a sledgehammer to the door if she hadn’t been at home. “The whole place feels tainted,” she said. “They went through the most personal things. They took photographs as they were working their way through the house. Every so often I find myself doing something and thinking ‘They have pictures of this now.’ ”

    She told the Daily Mail that officers leafed through her daughter’s recorder music book. “What on earth they thought they would find . . . It was like being burgled and having to watch.”

    Shit, I knew about the raids on Green’s Commons Office, but didn’t realise they raided his house too. The office raid was well out of order, going through his home doubly so.
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    Although not totally infallible everybody really should be using 2FA these days and a VPN for public WiFi.
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    Anyway, time to be off.

    Hopefully the Brazil markets will be up when I return.
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    Sandpit said:

    Clearly there’s bad blood between Quick and Green and one would think it dates back to before 2008. Green’s wife is, or at least was, a barrister; is there something between her and Quick.

    Unlikely since Alicia specialises in Family Law:

    http://www.harcourtchambers.co.uk/index.aspx?p=73&barristerId=40

    TBH this all sounds like a copper with a grudge against “the one who got away” in his view. Worth comparing the Wiki article with the sworn testimony to Leveson -Quick was “undermined” by The Met....
    IIRC There is a lot of bad blood between Mrs Green and the police, she was there when they conducted the search, and she found their behaviour appalling/heavy handed.

    Police searches of [Green's] homes left him feeling as if he had been burgled, he said. Officers rifled through his love letters to his wife and reduced his 15-year-old daughter to tears. His wife, Alicia Collinson, said that the officers had told her that they would have taken a sledgehammer to the door if she hadn’t been at home. “The whole place feels tainted,” she said. “They went through the most personal things. They took photographs as they were working their way through the house. Every so often I find myself doing something and thinking ‘They have pictures of this now.’ ”

    She told the Daily Mail that officers leafed through her daughter’s recorder music book. “What on earth they thought they would find . . . It was like being burgled and having to watch.”

    Shit, I knew about the raids on Green’s Commons Office, but didn’t realise they raided his house too. The office raid was well out of order, going through his home doubly so.
    Gets 'better'

    Mr Green highlighted a series of failings in the police investigation, revealing that officers surrounded the wrong house in his constituency until he took them to his home.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,171
    edited November 2017

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    After we can whip her on the Brexit votes though! She can defect in April 2019, along with Heidi Allen.
    She does have a point though?

    Ask yourself, why is the kind of Toryism Anna Soubry espouses is the only kind of Toryism to have won a majority in the last quarter of a century.
    Cameron only won a majority after proposing a referendum on membership of the EU
    Rubbish, there's polling that says otherwise, things like leadership, stewardship of the economy were the big drivers behind the Tory vote.

    If people really voted the way you suggested, the UKIP's share of the vote would have collapsed in 2015 from their 2010 share.
    UKIP would have polled even higher in 2015 had it not been for the EU referendum promise, it was that and fear of the SNP holding the balance of power which produced the Tory majority.

    Without them the Tories would have been the largest party in a second hung parliament, probably with another Coalition with Clegg (as the Tories would not have won so many LD seats in Cornwall and Devon without the EU referendum promise).
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    Sandpit said:

    Clearly there’s bad blood between Quick and Green and one would think it dates back to before 2008. Green’s wife is, or at least was, a barrister; is there something between her and Quick.

    Unlikely since Alicia specialises in Family Law:

    http://www.harcourtchambers.co.uk/index.aspx?p=73&barristerId=40

    TBH this all sounds like a copper with a grudge against “the one who got away” in his view. Worth comparing the Wiki article with the sworn testimony to Leveson -Quick was “undermined” by The Met....
    IIRC There is a lot of bad blood between Mrs Green and the police, she was there when they conducted the search, and she found their behaviour appalling/heavy handed.

    Police searches of [Green's] homes left him feeling as if he had been burgled, he said. Officers rifled through his love letters to his wife and reduced his 15-year-old daughter to tears. His wife, Alicia Collinson, said that the officers had told her that they would have taken a sledgehammer to the door if she hadn’t been at home. “The whole place feels tainted,” she said. “They went through the most personal things. They took photographs as they were working their way through the house. Every so often I find myself doing something and thinking ‘They have pictures of this now.’ ”

    She told the Daily Mail that officers leafed through her daughter’s recorder music book. “What on earth they thought they would find . . . It was like being burgled and having to watch.”

    Shit, I knew about the raids on Green’s Commons Office, but didn’t realise they raided his house too. The office raid was well out of order, going through his home doubly so.
    And it's worth remembering what the original alleged offence was supposed to be about: a leak about the Labour government's immigration policy. The police action absolutely beggared belief.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,950
    edited November 2017

    Sandpit said:

    You’re right to hint at what could be a huge problem of stolen identities though. If someone effectively steals your fingerprints you’re f***ed.

    Biometrics are not the answer. For a start they are simply not reliable enough and secondly they seem to have too many get-arounds.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30623611
    Yup. Mythbusters managed to fool fingerprint door access readers a decade ago, and there’s no evidence they couldn’t repeat the excercise today. Different story on other devices though, my iPhone would much rather give a false negative, especially if the finger is hot or wet. Pain the the proverbial when you’ve got an 11 character password on the phone!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Although not totally infallible everybody really should be using 2FA these days and a VPN for public WiFi.

    https://www.yubico.com

    I got my whole family these for Christmas. They were well chuffed...
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    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Anna should just cross the floor to the Lib Dems
    After we can whip her on the Brexit votes though! She can defect in April 2019, along with Heidi Allen.
    She does have a point though?

    Ask yourself, why is the kind of Toryism Anna Soubry espouses is the only kind of Toryism to have won a majority in the last quarter of a century.
    A good indication of the sort of undemocratic nasty piece of work she really is:

    "I only backed EU referendum vote because Remain was supposed to win"

    She says that if she had thought Leave might win she would not have supported calling the vote. She is a complete scumbag unfit to be in Parliament.
This discussion has been closed.