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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The trend in the YouGov Brexit tracker edges towards those who think it is wrong

Above is my annotated version of the latest YouGov summary chart showing the top line responses since the referendum when the the firm’s tracker question was asked.

Read the full story here

DavidL

First?

RobD

Second!

Penddu

Thud

DavidL

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Benpointer

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

You obviously exclude the Telegraph, Mail, Sun and Express from the media!

Morris_Dancer

Mr. L, indeed.

FrancisUrquhart

Taps mic....sniff sniff...fake News...

Benpointer

FPT:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Elliot, considering a healthy woman in a bikini or a woman's back to be worthy of censorship is another black mark. Puritanism has no place in the UK.

You don't need to go back to 1600s Puritanism for bikinis or a woman's back to be censored. Any time pre-1920 would do - indeed for most of recorded history in this country such things would have been widely censored, or at the very least considered socially unacceptable.

williamglenn

And phase 1 doesn't really involve any existential compromises - its only effect has been to demonstrate that we are in the weaker position. When phase 2 begins, people (and MPs) will not be able to avoid the implications of the choices that need to be made.

RobD

williamglenn said:

And phase 1 doesn't really involve any existential compromises - its only effect has been to demonstrate that we are in the weaker position. When phase 2 begins, people (and MPs) will not be able to avoid the implications of the choices that need to be made.

They’ll be begging to join the euro in the end, won’t they?

anothernick

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Not really. Most people are not interested in the detail - they just think Brexit is happening and that's it. I work in a non-political environment and the topic hardly ever comes up in conversation. At board level people are very worried but they were all remainers anyway. But for ordinary people there has been very little impact - yet.

MikeSmithson

Notice there has been a poll showing "Brexit was right" in the lead since TMay returned from her vacation in August.

GIN1138

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

MikeSmithson

anothernick said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Not really. Most people are not interested in the detail - they just think Brexit is happening and that's it. I work in a non-political environment and the topic hardly ever comes up in conversation. At board level people are very worried but they were all remainers anyway. But for ordinary people there has been very little impact - yet.

Very little impact apart from the sharp decline in value of the pound and accelerating inflation.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Pointer, it's cultural backsliding.

Liberties are hard to win and easy to give up, and on every side freedom of expression is being eroded because of religion, government and the desperate-to-be-offended. And the weasel Khan is going along with the nonsense.

Ban things whenever someone's offended and you'll ban a hell of a lot, and put the power of censorship into the hands of those who are most over-sensitive. It's bloody stupid.

MikeSmithson

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

RobD

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

We’re all loyal to PB

TheScreamingEagles

I think Brexit is still an abstract concept.

Once we start seeing what Brexit actually means, be it sunlit uplands, or airplanes grounded and the port of Dover seized up, or something in between, then this polling becomes really critical.

Unless we start seeing consistent double digit leads for Wrong.

OysterOctopus

Considering the complete lack of opposing view to the Doom and Gloom narrative, in the midst of a very bad few months in the negotiations, the real news here is that the lead for 'wrong' is barely above margin of error.

FrancisUrquhart

Apparently a mass stabbing in Poland at a shopping centre. No indication of motive.

DavidL

Benpointer said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

You obviously exclude the Telegraph, Mail, Sun and Express from the media!

I was thinking more of the BBC, Sky and C4, where most people get their news.

williamglenn

OysterOctopus said:

Considering the complete lack of opposing view to the Doom and Gloom narrative...

Boris's article? A wave of 'WTO terms would be great' stories? A new unilateral free trade lobby blessed by Johnson and Fox? It's easy for the believers to get their fix if they're looking for it.

DavidL

MikeSmithson said:

anothernick said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Not really. Most people are not interested in the detail - they just think Brexit is happening and that's it. I work in a non-political environment and the topic hardly ever comes up in conversation. At board level people are very worried but they were all remainers anyway. But for ordinary people there has been very little impact - yet.

Very little impact apart from the sharp decline in value of the pound and accelerating inflation.

Come on Mike, we are both old enough to remember when inflation was a problem and it wasn't 3%. Modest inflation is about the only way we are ever going to cut our debt mountains down to size.

TheScreamingEagles

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Bollocks.

You've missed Crush The Saboteurs, wanting people tried for treason, and John Redwood's Gordon Brownesque bullshit create fantasy forecasts so you can say you were right stuff?

GIN1138

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap.

Crikey!

anothernick

MikeSmithson said:

anothernick said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Not really. Most people are not interested in the detail - they just think Brexit is happening and that's it. I work in a non-political environment and the topic hardly ever comes up in conversation. At board level people are very worried but they were all remainers anyway. But for ordinary people there has been very little impact - yet.

Very little impact apart from the sharp decline in value of the pound and accelerating inflation.

True but these things have happened before - they are not new phenomena and they are not yet severe enough for most people to question their judgment about Brexit.

TGOHF

williamglenn said:

And phase 1 doesn't really involve any existential compromises - its only effect has been to demonstrate that we are in the weaker position. When phase 2 begins, people (and MPs) will not be able to avoid the implications of the choices that need to be made.

Yes - people won't immediately see the loss from not having their hard working MEPs slaving away in Brussells...

OysterOctopus

williamglenn said:

OysterOctopus said:

Considering the complete lack of opposing view to the Doom and Gloom narrative...

Boris's article? A wave of 'WTO terms would be great' stories? A new unilateral free trade lobby blessed by Johnson and Fox? It's easy for the believers to get their fix if they're looking for it.

Yes indeed, you have to really look hard for it. It's not the very politically switched on like us who swing polling results, it's the casual watchers of the news who do. And only one narrative has dominated the airwaves lately, as you acknowledge.

GIN1138

TheScreamingEagles said:

Bollocks.

"Crap" from Mike. "Bollocks" from TSE.

Have I upset someone?

TheScreamingEagles

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Bollocks.

"Crap" from Mike. "Bollocks" from TSE.

Have I upset someone?

You're unable to rebut the substance of my message.

Noted.

Sean_F

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Elliot, considering a healthy woman in a bikini or a woman's back to be worthy of censorship is another black mark. Puritanism has no place in the UK.

You don't need to go back to 1600s Puritanism for bikinis or a woman's back to be censored. Any time pre-1920 would do - indeed for most of recorded history in this country such things would have been widely censored, or at the very least considered socially unacceptable.

That would depend a lot on the period and the social circles you mixed in. A woman's naked back would be considered nothing unusual at the Court of Charles II, but would have caused outrage in the rest of society at the time.

Gregory King made a very useful distinction between the Great and the merely Rich. The Great could get away with flouting society's moral codes, the Rich could not.

foxinsoxuk

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

steve_garner

Mike Smithson is Faisal Islam and I claim my 50 billion euros, or maybe more.

Ishmael_Z

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Bollocks.

"Crap" from Mike. "Bollocks" from TSE.

Have I upset someone?

You're unable to rebut the substance of my message.

Noted.

Perhaps he doesn't understand it? What has Redwood done, and is it meant to end ”the right stuff”? Or a Yorkshire ”reet stuffed”?

rottenborough

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

TOPPING

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Bruno is missing Strictly this week; the first time in 13 years.

RobD

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

I want a Norwegian one, those ones are proper stylish.

TOPPING

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

It's Friday afternoon; don't get us started on wine, women and song or we'll never stop.

Edit: Oxford comma not required @TSE.

Ishmael_Z

RobD said:

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

I want a Norwegian one, those ones are proper stylish.

They are cool. And seem to have a choice ofcolours.

basicbridge

"Overall this suggests that opinion might just be shifting though, of course, we need more polling."


It suggests nothing other than the changing vicissitudes of the way the press reports the negotiations.

RobD

Ishmael_Z said:

RobD said:

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

I want a Norwegian one, those ones are proper stylish.

They are cool. And seem to have a choice ofcolours.

I thought the colours were for normal/diplomatic/refugee

Recidivist

Benpointer said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

You obviously exclude the Telegraph, Mail, Sun and Express from the media!

And the Radio 4 today programme.

basicbridge

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

Ishmael_Z

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

RobD said:

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

I want a Norwegian one, those ones are proper stylish.

They are cool. And seem to have a choice ofcolours.

I thought the colours were for normal/diplomatic/refugee

Oh. You are right, and that is much less cool: "either white, turquoise or red for immigrant, diplomat and standard passports respectively." Colour coding immigrants makes me think of yellow stars.

TOPPING

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

RobD

Ishmael_Z said:

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

RobD said:

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

I want a Norwegian one, those ones are proper stylish.

They are cool. And seem to have a choice ofcolours.

I thought the colours were for normal/diplomatic/refugee

Oh. You are right, and that is much less cool: "either white, turquoise or red for immigrant, diplomat and standard passports respectively." Colour coding immigrants makes me think of yellow stars.

Isn’t it just a temporary passport, for those that don’t have any passport of their own (stateless). The UK one is blue (lucky buggers!)

http://www.leedsimmigrationservice.org/Travel-Document.jpg

steve_garner

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

Sky News is relentlessly negative too. Faisal Islam has lost the ability to be objective about Brexit, if he ever had it, and Ed Conway's reporting on the OECD report this week was cringeworthy. Talk about cherry picking the parts of the report to fit the narrative!

GIN1138

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Bollocks.

"Crap" from Mike. "Bollocks" from TSE.

Have I upset someone?

You're unable to rebut the substance of my message.

Noted.

I probably could offer you a rebuttal but;

1. Somone will be along soon enough to do it far better than me.

2. My life is too short to spend arguing about Brexit on here day after day.

Ave It is right... Brexit's boring!

JosiasJessop

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

There's a point here that the older dark-blue brigade fail to notice: a generation of people, possibly two generations, have been raised with burgundy passports. They might not like a change as much as the old 'uns want to change.

For instance, my passports have always been burgundy. I quite like my collection of three burgundy passports, and don't want a dark blue one spoiling it - even worse, a dark blue that might be mistaken for Oxford Blue ...

(Shudders)

TheScreamingEagles

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Bollocks.

"Crap" from Mike. "Bollocks" from TSE.

Have I upset someone?

You're unable to rebut the substance of my message.

Noted.

I probably could offer you a rebuttal but;

1. Somone will be along soon enough to do it far better than me.

2. My life is too short to spend arguing about Brexit on here day after day.

Ave It is right... Brexit's boring!

Chicken.

TOPPING

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

GIN1138 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Bollocks.

"Crap" from Mike. "Bollocks" from TSE.

Have I upset someone?

You're unable to rebut the substance of my message.

Noted.

I probably could offer you a rebuttal but;

1. Somone will be along soon enough to do it far better than me.

2. My life is too short to spend arguing about Brexit on here day after day.

Ave It is right... Brexit's boring!

It's boring but the only game in town and the birthplace of a zillion betting opportunities.

TheScreamingEagles

steve_garner said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

Sky News is relentlessly negative too. Faisal Islam has lost the ability to be objective about Brexit, if he ever had it, and Ed Conway's reporting on the OECD report this week was cringeworthy. Talk about cherry picking the parts of the report to fit the narrative!

I assume your criticised John Redwood for that as well.

foxinsoxuk

RobD said:

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

I want a Norwegian one, those ones are proper stylish.

For those shopping for a new passport, as Burgundy is so last season, there is this useful little list.

I see our current passport is 5th (equal) in the world for visa free travel:

https://www.passportindex.org/byRank.php?ccode=ca

TheScreamingEagles

JosiasJessop said:

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

There's a point here that the older dark-blue brigade fail to notice: a generation of people, possibly two generations, have been raised with burgundy passports. They might not like a change as much as the old 'uns want to change.

For instance, my passports have always been burgundy. I quite like my collection of three burgundy passports, and don't want a dark blue one spoiling it - even worse, a dark blue that might be mistaken for Oxford Blue ...

(Shudders)

The best thing about the current passport, as opposed to the old passport, was that the new one fits easily in your pocket.

Jonathan

No-one could spin this government's Brexit implementation so far. It has obviously been rubbish.

rottenborough

JosiasJessop said:

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

There's a point here that the older dark-blue brigade fail to notice: a generation of people, possibly two generations, have been raised with burgundy passports. They might not like a change as much as the old 'uns want to change.

For instance, my passports have always been burgundy. I quite like my collection of three burgundy passports, and don't want a dark blue one spoiling it - even worse, a dark blue that might be mistaken for Oxford Blue ...

(Shudders)

I'd rather keep Burgundy if it means I don't have to queue for hours waiting to get into France, whilst all the other EU nationals swan past me and are waved through.

The dark blue brigade are probably the same people who came up with UKIP's policy of requiring ties to be worn at the theatre.

TheScreamingEagles

Jonathan said:

No-one could spin this government's Brexit implementation so far. It has obviously been rubbish.

The only explanation is that Mrs May is trying to sabotage Brexit.

The warning signs were there when she appointed Boris Johnson, David Davis, and the disgraced Liam Fox to key Brexit roles.

Theresa's not all bad.

#TheresaMustStay.

foxinsoxuk

TheScreamingEagles said:

JosiasJessop said:

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

There's a point here that the older dark-blue brigade fail to notice: a generation of people, possibly two generations, have been raised with burgundy passports. They might not like a change as much as the old 'uns want to change.

For instance, my passports have always been burgundy. I quite like my collection of three burgundy passports, and don't want a dark blue one spoiling it - even worse, a dark blue that might be mistaken for Oxford Blue ...

(Shudders)

The best thing about the current passport, as opposed to the old passport, was that the new one fits easily in your pocket.

I think that size and soft cover are now international standard.

Blue seems to be the favoured colour in Latin America and Sub Saharan Africa.

Jonathan

TheScreamingEagles said:

Jonathan said:

No-one could spin this government's Brexit implementation so far. It has obviously been rubbish.

The only explanation is that Mrs May is trying to sabotage Brexit.

The warning signs were there when she appointed Boris Johnson, David Davis, and the disgraced Liam Fox to key Brexit roles.

Theresa's not all bad.

#TheresaMustStay.

I wish she were that clever.

basicbridge

What - and whisper this quietly - if the negotiations end up going quite well?! Now there's a thought.

It might turn out that Merkel etc, after all the bluster, will be similarly pragmatic and a deal will be done.....

Ishmael_Z

TheScreamingEagles said:

Jonathan said:

No-one could spin this government's Brexit implementation so far. It has obviously been rubbish.

The only explanation is that Mrs May is trying to sabotage Brexit.

The warning signs were there when she appointed Boris Johnson, David Davis, and the disgraced Liam Fox to key Brexit roles.

Theresa's not all bad.

#TheresaMustStay.

Appointed that stellar trio as opposed to who or rather whom, whom and whom?

When Dave and George followed the money and made for the emergency exit they knew very well they were handing over the ship of state to a collection of arsehats, none of whom one would trust to sit the right way round on a lavatory. Thanks, guys.

TheScreamingEagles

Ishmael_Z said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Jonathan said:

No-one could spin this government's Brexit implementation so far. It has obviously been rubbish.

The only explanation is that Mrs May is trying to sabotage Brexit.

The warning signs were there when she appointed Boris Johnson, David Davis, and the disgraced Liam Fox to key Brexit roles.

Theresa's not all bad.

#TheresaMustStay.

Appointed that stellar trio as opposed to who or rather whom, whom and whom?

When Dave and George followed the money and made for the emergency exit they knew very well they were handing over the ship of state to a collection of arsehats, none of whom one would trust to sit the right way round on a lavatory. Thanks, guys.

Michael Gove as Brexit Secretary, Dominic Raab as International Trade Secretary, and say Jeremy Hunt as Foreign Secretary would have been a damn sight more competent than the current shower of shit.

But Mrs May, because she clashed with Gove and Raab in the past, decided to sack them because she's a vindictive idiot and doesn't think about her country only about humiliating those she thinks she is better than.

rottenborough

basicbridge said:

What - and whisper this quietly - if the negotiations end up going quite well?! Now there's a thought.

It might turn out that Merkel etc, after all the bluster, will be similarly pragmatic and a deal will be done.....

HYUFD

Yougov had Remain ahead by 2% in its final EU referendum poll and Leave won by 4%.

So if a net 3% with Yougov now think Brexit was wrong on the same error Leave would still be ahead by 3%.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

Ishmael_Z

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

Yorkcity

basicbridge said:

What - and whisper this quietly - if the negotiations end up going quite well?! Now there's a thought.

It might turn out that Merkel etc, after all the bluster, will be similarly pragmatic and a deal will be done.....

It'll be all right on the night.

RobD

Ishmael_Z said:

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

It's amazing how bad the Telegraph website is. Is the paper itself full of similar guff?

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Bridge, I'll believe that when I see it. Hope you're right, but not betting on it.

Roger

Lets do it!

Kick this crazy Brexit into touch. The People Have Spoken

TheScreamingEagles

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

It's amazing how bad the Telegraph website is. Is the paper itself full of similar guff?

Yup, it is the print equivalent of clickbtait.

I grew up reading The Telegraph, they had excellent foreign coverage, now there is feck all

TheScreamingEagles

I'm filling in a Populus poll, and one of the questions is, do you consider yourself working class?

AndyJS

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

It's amazing how bad the Telegraph website is. Is the paper itself full of similar guff?

Yup, it is the print equivalent of clickbtait.

I grew up reading The Telegraph, they had excellent foreign coverage, now there is feck all

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

williamglenn

AndyJS said:

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/921338941042839552

AndyJS

williamglenn said:

AndyJS said:

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/921338941042839552

I actually check sites like PB before the newspapers these days because I'm more likely to find out what's going on here than there.

NorthofStoke

My own unhelpful view is that we haven't enough reliable information to judge whether the negotiations are going well and how likely they are to succeed or fail. (Supply your own definitions.) Journalists spout claptrap to fill the airwaves based on the same limited data available to anyone plus rumors and dodgy briefings. Added to that almost all commentors are pushing an agenda.

Jonathan

At Victoria the Telegraph does free water if you buy an issue. It might increase circulation numbers , but people hand the newspaper back and keep the water.

Ishmael_Z

williamglenn said:

AndyJS said:

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/921338941042839552

Juncker is indefensible. What with the drinking and the Amazon tax case he epitomises everything most wrong and horrible about the EU, and if I were a Europhile I would go out of my way to avoid referring to him in any context whatever.

Jonathan

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

AndyJS said:

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/921338941042839552

Juncker is indefensible. What with the drinking and the Amazon tax case he epitomises everything most wrong and horrible about the EU, and if I were a Europhile I would go out of my way to avoid referring to him in any context whatever.

The fact that the UK seceded on his watch and he kept his job tells you all you need to know.

TheScreamingEagles

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

It's amazing how bad the Telegraph website is. Is the paper itself full of similar guff?

Yup, it is the print equivalent of clickbtait.

I grew up reading The Telegraph, they had excellent foreign coverage, now there is feck all

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

I think The Times has improved a lot as well. I went from The Telegraph to The Times around 2006.

The Barclay Brothers really has ruined The Telegraph.

Bring back Lord Black.

Richard_Tyndall

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

It's amazing how bad the Telegraph website is. Is the paper itself full of similar guff?

Yup, it is the print equivalent of clickbtait.

I grew up reading The Telegraph, they had excellent foreign coverage, now there is feck all

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

As I said a couple of weeks ago, the only newspapers worthy of their names now are the Times and the Guardian. Even though I do not support the Guardian's political stance on most issues it does its best to be informative and accurate. The Telegraph is now a rag pandering to the same sort of audience in terms of content as the Mail and Express did 20 years ago.

HYUFD

Richard_Tyndall said:

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

It's amazing how bad the Telegraph website is. Is the paper itself full of similar guff?

Yup, it is the print equivalent of clickbtait.

I grew up reading The Telegraph, they had excellent foreign coverage, now there is feck all

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

As I said a couple of weeks ago, the only newspapers worthy of their names now are the Times and the Guardian. Even though I do not support the Guardian's political stance on most issues it does its best to be informative and accurate. The Telegraph is now a rag pandering to the same sort of audience in terms of content as the Mail and Express did 20 years ago.

Maybe but the Telegraph is the biggest selling broadsheet

Roger

OysterOctopus said:

Considering the complete lack of opposing view to the Doom and Gloom narrative, in the midst of a very bad few months in the negotiations, the real news here is that the lead for 'wrong' is barely above margin of error.

Have you considered that those anticipating the doom and gloom known as 'Project Fear' were right all along?

basicbridge

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Bridge, I'll believe that when I see it. Hope you're right, but not betting on it.

Maybe not. But the point is that this purports to be a betting site. And, arguably, there is quite a lot of "Brexit failure" priced into political markets,

felix

TheScreamingEagles said:

I'm filling in a Populus poll, and one of the questions is, do you consider yourself working class?

Working?- yes. Class? - pass.

Essexit

Jonathan said:

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

AndyJS said:

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/921338941042839552

Juncker is indefensible. What with the drinking and the Amazon tax case he epitomises everything most wrong and horrible about the EU, and if I were a Europhile I would go out of my way to avoid referring to him in any context whatever.

The fact that the UK seceded on his watch and he kept his job tells you all you need to know.

We haven't seceded yet, as all good Remainers will be eager to tell you upon hearing any good economic news.

Ishmael_Z

HYUFD said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

It's amazing how bad the Telegraph website is. Is the paper itself full of similar guff?

Yup, it is the print equivalent of clickbtait.

I grew up reading The Telegraph, they had excellent foreign coverage, now there is feck all

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

As I said a couple of weeks ago, the only newspapers worthy of their names now are the Times and the Guardian. Even though I do not support the Guardian's political stance on most issues it does its best to be informative and accurate. The Telegraph is now a rag pandering to the same sort of audience in terms of content as the Mail and Express did 20 years ago.

Maybe but the Telegraph is the biggest selling broadsheet

Always was, and I suspect the free with a bottle of water deal helps it a lot because it is presented as buy newspaper and get free water rather than vice versa, so counts as sale not giveaway.

Roger

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

AndyJS said:

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/921338941042839552

Juncker is indefensible. What with the drinking and the Amazon tax case he epitomises everything most wrong and horrible about the EU, and if I were a Europhile I would go out of my way to avoid referring to him in any context whatever.

Do you ever wonder what impression Boris Johnson gives our European partners of us?

calum

Updated Scotland forecast - SNP(+10) , SCON (-4), SLAB (-4), SLID (-2)

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/scotland.html
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls_scot.html

Ishmael_Z

Roger said:

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

AndyJS said:

Every British newspaper has declined in terms of quality over the last 10 years with the possible exception of the Financial Times.

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/921338941042839552

Juncker is indefensible. What with the drinking and the Amazon tax case he epitomises everything most wrong and horrible about the EU, and if I were a Europhile I would go out of my way to avoid referring to him in any context whatever.

Do you ever wonder what impression Boris Johnson gives our European partners of us?

I don't have to wonder, I know, and I agree it's embarrassing. But he is sober, at least in public, and has nothing on the scale of Project Goldcrest in his past.

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/janinegibson/status/921392280782688256

rpjs

I got my American passport the other week. It has a picture of Voyager I inside the cover, so I think I win.

And it's blue.

Jonathan

rpjs said:

I got my American passport the other week. It has a picture of Voyager I inside the cover, so I think I win.

And it's blue.

Donald Trump.

(you lose)

Roger

rpjs said:

I got my American passport the other week. It has a picture of Voyager I inside the cover, so I think I win.

And it's blue.

Half the cabinet would kill for a blue passport.....

dixiedean

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/janinegibson/status/921392280782688256

Chimes with much of the chatter about newspapers. Balanced and fair, with an attempt to get all sides of the story. No conflation of fact with opinion. Sort of report which wouldn't appear in our newspapers.
Some of the best journalism is done Online by the likes of Buzzfeed and Vice these days.

another_richard

I saw this story and thought of a certain PBer:

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/family-relationships/couple-defend-33-year-age-gap-after-being-called-disgusting/ar-AAtKRsg?li=AA9SkIr&ocid=ientp

Roger

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

JosiasJessop said:

rottenborough said:

foxinsoxuk said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

Reasons to be cheerful, part 1.

1) Blue passports.

2) see 1)

I want a Burgundy coloured one.

There's a point here that the older dark-blue brigade fail to notice: a generation of people, possibly two generations, have been raised with burgundy passports. They might not like a change as much as the old 'uns want to change.

For instance, my passports have always been burgundy. I quite like my collection of three burgundy passports, and don't want a dark blue one spoiling it - even worse, a dark blue that might be mistaken for Oxford Blue ...

(Shudders)

The best thing about the current passport, as opposed to the old passport, was that the new one fits easily in your pocket.

I think that size and soft cover are now international standard.

Blue seems to be the favoured colour in Latin America and Sub Saharan Africa.

Is the reason you're not at the King Power stadium chanting 'Srivaddhanaprabha out!' because you can't pronounce it?

kyf_100

All this thread is telling me is that if we were to re-run the Brexit referendum we *might* get a 52/48 split in favour of remain this time. Which if acted on would be the one of the biggest middle fingers up to democracy of all time, and true proof that the EU will have you voting again and again until you give the right answer, just as they did in Ireland. It would be the death knell of democracy. The Monty Python parrot of democracy. If you think we're a joke now, wait until our democracy becomes a Norwegian Blue.

I say this as somebody who probably agrees with the strand of thought that says Brexit will be an act of economic self harm, but there is more to life than money. The right to determine, and dispatch, one's political masters, is one of them.

What I suspect we are seeing here is a small marginal uptick in the number of people who *lack faith in the government's ability to carry out Brexit* rather than any kind of ideological shift. How many people here have changed their minds in a year of non stop argument about it?

I don't believe Brexit will be a success. I don't believe the Tories will make a good job of it. But for me, even the hardest, cluster***k Brexit beats the terrible consequences of telling half the population their vote didn't count.

another_richard

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

It's amazing how bad the Telegraph website is. Is the paper itself full of similar guff?

Yup, it is the print equivalent of clickbtait.

I grew up reading The Telegraph, they had excellent foreign coverage, now there is feck all

The Telegraph has been highlighting this today:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/dance/ballet/bolshoi-brothel-oligarchs-claims-former-ballerina/

This also has prominence:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/16/farmer-shouts-get-land-uses-quad-bike-confront-hunt-saboteurs2/

TheScreamingEagles

another_richard said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

RobD said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TOPPING said:

basicbridge said:

MikeSmithson said:

GIN1138 said:

DavidL said:

As I have said before the remarkable thing given the completely over the top and down the other side gloom and doom that is on the media every single hour of every day is that the vote for leave has proved so robust.

Indeed.

It's been non-stop, 24/7 doom and gloom since 24th June 2016 with absolutely no rebuttal at all from the Leave side....

What a lot of crap. Clearly the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun don't exit in your eyes.

Im afraid he is right. The BBC has been relentlessly negative and BBC News has an audience many times that of the Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun combined.

The Mail has a readership (online) of what, 3m? Dwarfing other media outlets. And it is essentially a direct link from John Redwood's synapse output to its front page.

(I appreciate most people will skip straight to whichever sidebar of shame article catches their fancy, but still.)

The Telegraph is equally just clickbait, needed only for Matt. It is currently offering a rather good deal which is access for a year for £100 and get a year's free Amazon Prime (available even if you already have Prime, as I do). So that's effectively £21 for a year's access and I still don't think I'll bother. The only papers I read for political content are the Guardian and the Standard.

It's amazing how bad the Telegraph website is. Is the paper itself full of similar guff?

Yup, it is the print equivalent of clickbtait.

I grew up reading The Telegraph, they had excellent foreign coverage, now there is feck all

The Telegraph has been highlighting this today:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/dance/ballet/bolshoi-brothel-oligarchs-claims-former-ballerina/

This also has prominence:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/16/farmer-shouts-get-land-uses-quad-bike-confront-hunt-saboteurs2/

Looking at those, no journalist has put their name to those articles.

That's never a good sign.

another_richard

kyf_100 said:

All this thread is telling me is that if we were to re-run the Brexit referendum we *might* get a 52/48 split in favour of remain this time. Which if acted on would be the one of the biggest middle fingers up to democracy of all time, and true proof that the EU will have you voting again and again until you give the right answer, just as they did in Ireland. It would be the death knell of democracy. The Monty Python parrot of democracy. If you think we're a joke now, wait until our democracy becomes a Norwegian Blue.

I say this as somebody who probably agrees with the strand of thought that says Brexit will be an act of economic self harm, but there is more to life than money. The right to determine, and dispatch, one's political masters, is one of them.

What I suspect we are seeing here is a small marginal uptick in the number of people who *lack faith in the government's ability to carry out Brexit* rather than any kind of ideological shift. How many people here have changed their minds in a year of non stop argument about it?

I don't believe Brexit will be a success. I don't believe the Tories will make a good job of it. But for me, even the hardest, cluster***k Brexit beats the terrible consequences of telling half the population their vote didn't count.

That is indeed the aim of some people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-democracy