Precisely. I don't know much about being a mechanic, or medicine, and I don't expect a mechanic to know about the vagaries of international agreements and trade treaties. Not because they're thick but because it's not their area of expertise. They will not be able to trawl through impact assessments, read up on the minutiae of economic theory and international politics and come to a conclusion. That's why we live in a representative democracy. Politicians and their advisers go through the detail, and in theory put plausible plans to voters who can then choose. There's an incentive not to deliberately defraud voters as if elected to power you'll be booted out pretty sharpish if it's obvious you were fibbing in too big a way. Brexit was different in that for campaigners there was no equivalent incentive - it could be whatever you said you wanted it to be. No more immigration, a boost to the NHS, buccaneering free trade and protectionist policies for British business. The problem of course being that any government that had to implement it would have a poisoned chalice, as the risks that Brexiteers dismissed have now to be actively averted and their wilder promises dropped. We are yet to see anyone come up with a Brexit plan that satisfies even half the claims made during the referendum and that the EU would even have a remote chance of accepting. Hence why you've got an incredibly weak government. There's no way they can meet the demands of voters and their own MPs, it's just impossible. If it's a colossal failure, they'll then, like apologists for Communism, blame it on being wrong in the implementation, not because it was intellectually flawed from the start.
These charlatans offered leave voters a fantasy. I don't blame leave voters for buying it for the same reason I wouldn't blame myself if I hired a mechanic and he turned out to be a fraudulent charlatan. But if and when we end up with a hard left Corbyn government he'll have been put there by Tory Brexiteers who forgot their Burke and kicked off a revolution which they had no idea how to implement.
If you think politicians are experts on anything the you are a bigger fool than I took you for. And that is quite something I can tell you. The only charlatans are people like you who try to pretend the electorate were somehow conned just because you lost.
I agree with you Richard. I campaigned for Remain and had folk telling me that they were voting Leave simply because they didn't like the Conservative government! Absolutely no idea about the EU or what it did. As they say, none so queer as folk.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Why has he suddenly become so unpopular - when compared with Simon Hart in the other seat?
Becoming Work and Pensions Minister, albeit for a few months made him a target of local and national anti austerity, disability rights, WASPI groups. Added to that his personal induscretions and you have a toxic mix which has carried on since the election. Chosing a female opponent was also clever.
Considering Crabb himself grew up poor and the son of a single mother and is a former rugby player he is certainly a fighter, I would not rule him out next time although it will be a tough battle for him to cling on
Quiet night on PB. The calm before the storm? Or peace at last?
There is a strange stasis in politics atm. Brexit.People are dug in to their positions like WW!. Morning salvoes are fired to keep everyone aware that each side is still here. People are dug into their GE positions too. No-one is really moving forward much. However, great stresses are building up. Tectonic forces straining under the surface. Decisions MUST be taken soon. (Brexit+Budget in particular). There will be an earthquake, we will run for cover, and emerge to witness a changed landscape.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
Until the actual general election campaign this is all irrelevant, before the 2015 campaign Ed Miliband was expected to lead a minority Labour government and before the 2017 campaign Theresa May to win a big Tory majority
Dont be such a spoilsport!
Sorry but true, unless Corbyn starts to get leads of 10 points or more Labour cannot count on anything and even then that does not guarantee they will go from opposition to government as Neil Kinnock can tell you as he had leads of at least that much against Thatcher's Tories in 1990 before they replaced her with John Major
Nah, Corbyn is an awesome campaigner, he achieved around a 10% swing during the 2017 campaign, what's to say he won't do the same again in 2022.
If it can happen once, it can happen again.
Such an awesome campaigner he couldn't win more seats or votes than the MayBot?
In 1987 too Kinnock was also said to have had the best campaign and he went into the 1992 general election campaign expecting to beat Major. However the Tories won a 4th term by hammering him on tax which is what they will have to do again to Corbyn and which they could not do last time because of May's disastrous dementia tax.
It was also hammering Labour on tax which won the Nationals last month's New Zealand election after 9 years in power despite New Zealand Labour's Jacinda Adern leading in the early part of the campaign
Whilst I appreciate your point, each election is unique, and therefore sui generis. What will be effective once may be detrimental the next time.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
Until the actual general election campaign this is all irrelevant, before the 2015 campaign Ed Miliband was expected to lead a minority Labour government and before the 2017 campaign Theresa May to win a big Tory majority
Dont be such a spoilsport!
Sorry but true, unless Corbyn starts to get leads of 10 points or more Labour cannot count on anything and even then that does not guarantee they will go from opposition to government as Neil Kinnock can tell you as he had leads of at least that much against Thatcher's Tories in 1990 before they replaced her with John Major
Nah, Corbyn is an awesome campaigner, he achieved around a 10% swing during the 2017 campaign, what's to say he won't do the same again in 2022.
If it can happen once, it can happen again.
Such an awesome campaigner he couldn't win more seats or votes than the MayBot?
In 1987 too Kinnock was also said to have had the best campaign and he went into the 1992 general election campaign expecting to beat Major. However the Tories won a 4th term by hammering him on tax which is what they will have to do again to Corbyn and which they could not do last time because of May's disastrous dementia tax.
It was also hammering Labour on tax which won the Nationals last month's New Zealand election after 9 years in power despite New Zealand Labour's Jacinda Adern leading in the early part of the campaign
Whilst I appreciate your point, each election is unique, and therefore sui generis. What will be effective once may be detrimental the next time.
If the Tories are to have a chance of winning a 4th term tax rises under Labour has to be a key part of the campaign
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
Until the actual general election campaign this is all irrelevant, before the 2015 campaign Ed Miliband was expected to lead a minority Labour government and before the 2017 campaign Theresa May to win a big Tory majority
Dont be such a spoilsport!
Sorry but true, unless Corbyn starts to get leads of 10 points or more Labour cannot count on anything and even then that does not guarantee they will go from opposition to government as Neil Kinnock can tell you as he had leads of at least that much against Thatcher's Tories in 1990 before they replaced her with John Major
Nah, Corbyn is an awesome campaigner, he achieved around a 10% swing during the 2017 campaign, what's to say he won't do the same again in 2022.
If it can happen once, it can happen again.
Such an awesome campaigner he couldn't win more seats or votes than the MayBot?
In 1987 too Kinnock was also said to have had the best campaign and he went into the 1992 general election campaign expecting to beat Major. However the Tories won a 4th term by hammering him on tax which is what they will have to do again to Corbyn and which they could not do last time because of May's disastrous dementia tax.
It was also hammering Labour on tax which won the Nationals last month's New Zealand election after 9 years in power despite New Zealand Labour's Jacinda Adern leading in the early part of the campaign
Whilst I appreciate your point, each election is unique, and therefore sui generis. What will be effective once may be detrimental the next time.
If the Tories are to have a chance of winning a 4th term tax rises under Labour has to be a key part of the campaign
No doubt. However, will taxes be raised at this Budget? Will we have a hard or clean Brexit and see taxes rise thereafter? If so, that may undermine that line of attack. These are questions we don't yet know the answer to. However, it is rapidly coming to put or shut up time. Decisions need to be made. We will know soon enough. Hence my stasis post downthread. Meanwhile all predictions are equally valid. I am not making one.
Quiet night on PB. The calm before the storm? Or peace at last?
The former I suspect. The political forecast is more stormy now than at any time in the past half century. And the storm will break within a few months - perhaps weeks.
Given Ciudadanos largely back a tough line with Catalonia that looks like a clear clash is looming between the Spanish and Catalan Parliaments
When's the next crisis point? The latter made their 'not-a-declaration declaration' last Tuesday, which Madrid batted back, presumably sometime this week one of the sides will have to make another move.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
It's a superb part of the country. I've toyed with the idea of moving there. If they got rid of Crabb, I'd toy a bit more.
No excuses, get yourself down to Pembrokeshire. Superb part of the world. Far nicer than Cornwall, less crowded and none of the metropilitan elite have second homes(well not many). And we might get you to join the very active local momentum group and help get rid of Crabb.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
It's a superb part of the country. I've toyed with the idea of moving there. If they got rid of Crabb, I'd toy a bit more.
No excuses, get yourself down to Pembrokeshire. Superb part of the world. Far nicer than Cornwall, less crowded and none of the metropilitan elite have second homes(well not many). And we might get you to join the very active local momentum group and help get rid of Crabb.
Sounds lovely, apart from its politics.
I hope Crabb holds on.
Given the demographics in Pembrokeshire, my guess is the dementia tax was particularly damaging in that constituency.
Given Ciudadanos largely back a tough line with Catalonia that looks like a clear clash is looming between the Spanish and Catalan Parliaments
When's the next crisis point? The latter made their 'not-a-declaration declaration' last Tuesday, which Madrid batted back, presumably sometime this week one of the sides will have to make another move.
Rajoy has made clear he is making no concessions which Puigdemont was hoping for so it will come to a head soon enough
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
It's a superb part of the country. I've toyed with the idea of moving there. If they got rid of Crabb, I'd toy a bit more.
No excuses, get yourself down to Pembrokeshire. Superb part of the world. Far nicer than Cornwall, less crowded and none of the metropilitan elite have second homes(well not many). And we might get you to join the very active local momentum group and help get rid of Crabb.
Sounds lovely, apart from its politics.
I hope Crabb holds on.
Given the demographics in Pembrokeshire, my guess is the dementia tax was particularly damaging in that constituency.
*facepalm*
Still, a small scattering of chickenfeed compared to what Labour has planned:
Given Ciudadanos largely back a tough line with Catalonia that looks like a clear clash is looming between the Spanish and Catalan Parliaments
When's the next crisis point? The latter made their 'not-a-declaration declaration' last Tuesday, which Madrid batted back, presumably sometime this week one of the sides will have to make another move.
Monday. Madrid asked Barcelona to confirm if government there has declared independence. The deadline is Monday. If there is no response or the response is Yes, central government will begin process of running Catalonia from the centre. That will lead to huge demos and maybe worse.
Given Ciudadanos largely back a tough line with Catalonia that looks like a clear clash is looming between the Spanish and Catalan Parliaments
When's the next crisis point? The latter made their 'not-a-declaration declaration' last Tuesday, which Madrid batted back, presumably sometime this week one of the sides will have to make another move.
Monday. Madrid asked Barcelona to confirm if government there has declared independence. The deadline is Monday. If there is no response or the response is Yes, central government will begin process of running Catalonia from the centre. That will lead to huge demos and maybe worse.
Given that, then despite the divided nature of the independence coalition as you describe it, and despite the warnings and businesses leaving and the practical impossibility of enforcing it, one would think they really may as well declare if there are to be no concessions at all and Madrid will be taking over and probably charging a bunch with abuse of public funds or whatever anyway.
Only other option is to really back down, sounds like.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
It's a superb part of the country. I've toyed with the idea of moving there. If they got rid of Crabb, I'd toy a bit more.
No excuses, get yourself down to Pembrokeshire. Superb part of the world. Far nicer than Cornwall, less crowded and none of the metropilitan elite have second homes(well not many). And we might get you to join the very active local momentum group and help get rid of Crabb.
Sounds lovely, apart from its politics.
I hope Crabb holds on.
Given the demographics in Pembrokeshire, my guess is the dementia tax was particularly damaging in that constituency.
*facepalm*
Still, a small scattering of chickenfeed compared to what Labour has planned:
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
It's a superb part of the country. I've toyed with the idea of moving there. If they got rid of Crabb, I'd toy a bit more.
No excuses, get yourself down to Pembrokeshire. Superb part of the world. Far nicer than Cornwall, less crowded and none of the metropilitan elite have second homes(well not many). And we might get you to join the very active local momentum group and help get rid of Crabb.
Sounds lovely, apart from its politics.
I hope Crabb holds on.
Given the demographics in Pembrokeshire, my guess is the dementia tax was particularly damaging in that constituency.
*facepalm*
Still, a small scattering of chickenfeed compared to what Labour has planned:
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
It ain't going to save the Tories though.
It is not a matter of 'saving' the Tories in a defensive manner it is about attacking Labour's plans to increase income and inheritance tax which the Tories completely failed to do last time because they had to spend most of the time on defence over the disastrous dementia tax which they have now rightly had to drop.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
It's a superb part of the country. I've toyed with the idea of moving there. If they got rid of Crabb, I'd toy a bit more.
No excuses, get yourself down to Pembrokeshire. Superb part of the world. Far nicer than Cornwall, less crowded and none of the metropilitan elite have second homes(well not many). And we might get you to join the very active local momentum group and help get rid of Crabb.
Sounds lovely, apart from its politics.
I hope Crabb holds on.
Given the demographics in Pembrokeshire, my guess is the dementia tax was particularly damaging in that constituency.
*facepalm*
Still, a small scattering of chickenfeed compared to what Labour has planned:
Half Corbyn's advisers are Marxists, it would be social democracy the 1st term, Venezuelan socialism 2nd term, Cuban communism 3rd term
Only if people democratically vote for it.
A term of Social Democracy sounds very pleasant.
Corbyn would be like cooking a crab, except he would be cooking the voters until they are ready for socialism in tooth and claw and even by the first term I expect union militancy to already be flexing its muscles
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
It's a superb part of the country. I've toyed with the idea of moving there. If they got rid of Crabb, I'd toy a bit more.
No excuses, get yourself down to Pembrokeshire. Superb part of the world. Far nicer than Cornwall, less crowded and none of the metropilitan elite have second homes(well not many). And we might get you to join the very active local momentum group and help get rid of Crabb.
Sounds lovely, apart from its politics.
I hope Crabb holds on.
I spent a lovely 10 days in Simon Hart constituency; highly recommended
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
It's a superb part of the country. I've toyed with the idea of moving there. If they got rid of Crabb, I'd toy a bit more.
No excuses, get yourself down to Pembrokeshire. Superb part of the world. Far nicer than Cornwall, less crowded and none of the metropilitan elite have second homes(well not many). And we might get you to join the very active local momentum group and help get rid of Crabb.
Sounds lovely, apart from its politics.
I hope Crabb holds on.
Given the demographics in Pembrokeshire, my guess is the dementia tax was particularly damaging in that constituency.
*facepalm*
Still, a small scattering of chickenfeed compared to what Labour has planned:
Half Corbyn's advisers are Marxists, it would be social democracy the 1st term, Venezuelan socialism 2nd term, Cuban communism 3rd term
Nope. Because we still have sane people like me running CLPs- the "radical" new members aren't organised and are a minority at best. The party continues to be run along sane lines where the membership has control.
"Labour is losing ground to the Tories in Britain’s “left behind” towns and increasingly becoming the party of major cities, according to a new study of the UK’s fracturing political landscape.
Analysis by Professor Will Jennings of the University of Southampton for the New Economics Foundation thinktank shows a persistent and growing difference in political affiliation between cities and towns."
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
It's a superb part of the country. I've toyed with the idea of moving there. If they got rid of Crabb, I'd toy a bit more.
No excuses, get yourself down to Pembrokeshire. Superb part of the world. Far nicer than Cornwall, less crowded and none of the metropilitan elite have second homes(well not many). And we might get you to join the very active local momentum group and help get rid of Crabb.
Sounds lovely, apart from its politics.
I hope Crabb holds on.
Given the demographics in Pembrokeshire, my guess is the dementia tax was particularly damaging in that constituency.
*facepalm*
Still, a small scattering of chickenfeed compared to what Labour has planned:
Half Corbyn's advisers are Marxists, it would be social democracy the 1st term, Venezuelan socialism 2nd term, Cuban communism 3rd term
Nope. Because we still have sane people like me running CLPs- the "radical" new members aren't organised and are a minority at best. The party continues to be run along sane lines where the membership has control.
You have quite happily allowed Momentum to infiltrate your party like a virus, if Corbyn wins power it will then devour its host, your CLP included.
Neil Kinnock spent years driving the Militant Tendency out of CLPs only for Corbyn Labour to reopen the door to them in the guise of Momentum.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
But that is entirely due to the seats lost in Scotland. In England and Wales Corbyn did better than Kinnock in 1992.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
But that is entirely due to the seats lost in Scotland. In England and Wales Corbyn did better than Kinnock in 1992.
So what, we have a UK Parliament not an England and Wales one
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
But that is entirely due to the seats lost in Scotland. In England and Wales Corbyn did better than Kinnock in 1992.
So what, we have a UK Parliament not an England and Wales one
But the SNP are firmly anti-Tory and would support a minority Labour Govt if necessary.
Re- Crabb in Preseli Pembrokeshire. He was a 'flipper' in the Expenses scandal,and having presented himself as a devout Christian his subsequent tweets of a sexual suggestive nature very much convey the sense of someone not to be trusted.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
But that is entirely due to the seats lost in Scotland. In England and Wales Corbyn did better than Kinnock in 1992.
So what, we have a UK Parliament not an England and Wales one
But the SNP are firmly anti-Tory and would support a minority Labour Govt if necessary.
So what, SNP seats are still not Labour seats just as DUP seats are not Tory seats
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
But that is entirely due to the seats lost in Scotland. In England and Wales Corbyn did better than Kinnock in 1992.
Not in Wales, For a start, Kinnock (or more accurately Ainger) took Pembroke.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
But that is entirely due to the seats lost in Scotland. In England and Wales Corbyn did better than Kinnock in 1992.
Not in Wales, For a start, Kinnock (or more accurately Ainger) took Pembroke.
But it was a different seat . Much of the Preseli seat was then part of the Ceredigion & Pembroke North constituency.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
But that is entirely due to the seats lost in Scotland. In England and Wales Corbyn did better than Kinnock in 1992.
Not in Wales, For a start, Kinnock (or more accurately Ainger) took Pembroke.
But it was a different seat . Much of the Preseli seat was then part of the Ceredigion & Pembroke North constituency.
Only the very Northern parts of the Presell Mountains were in C&PN.
Great to see my patch, Preseli Pembs gone red on the map. Owen Jones went down a storm here today. Haverfordwest not seen anything like it since the Civil War.
I grew up in Haverfordwest in the 1960s and early 1970s. How confident are you of ousting Crabb in Preseli next time? For some reason there was a much bigger swing there last June than in the South Pembrokeshire & West Carmarthen seat.
A real 'momentum' has built up against Crabb, with an alliance of groups, particularly concentrated here in the north of the county.Another week and we would have ousted him earlier this year. If it were tomorrow i would put my mortgage on it. I have lived down here 30+ years and have never seen such enthusiasm, even more than in 1997.
Yes, I havent seen such passion and enthusisam since 97, nor such dispirited Tories. They thought tax would win it for them then too.
1997 was going for a 5th term, almost impossible, not a 4th as next time will be. It was also far easier to make the tax argument against Kinnock as it would be against Corbyn than it was against Blair.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
But that is entirely due to the seats lost in Scotland. In England and Wales Corbyn did better than Kinnock in 1992.
Not in Wales, For a start, Kinnock (or more accurately Ainger) took Pembroke.
But it was a different seat . Much of the Preseli seat was then part of the Ceredigion & Pembroke North constituency.
Only the very Northern parts of the Presell Mountains were in C&PN.
The rise and fall of the LibDems showed how many votes were moved by student debt.
And what had changed since 2015 is Labour having a leader who promised to end tuition fees and Osborne's freezing of the repayment threshold telling students they were to be financially shafted for 30 years.
The Conservative campaign was dreadful and filled with arrogance and lack of preparation but there's no denying that they had been creating vulnerabilities for themselves from 2010 onwards.
And there's a timescale for governments - the Conservatives have been in control for seven years. Once you're into your second term it becomes increasingly hard to blame what you inherited, instead voters judge you on your own record and how it compares to what you said you would do.
Which, to be frank, isn't particulalry good. Now we can have a discussion as to the reasons why but the facts remain that wage and home onwership levels have been stagnant and government borrowing has been way more than predicted. Meanwhile the likes of Philip Green have discredited capitalism further.
The economics of Corbyn and his gang might seem mad to you and me but millions of people think they have nothing to lose and millions more think 'time for a change'.
In a way its fortunate that the general election came this year - a continuation of their policies until 2020 would have led to certain defeat.
There's a slight myth around the Lib Dem collapse, even before the students fees vote, the Lib Dem vote had collapsed, they went from polling 20% plus in May 2010, to around the 9% to 14% range by conference time that year, and the student fees vote was a month or so later.
The votes shifted when Labour tactical voters realised the Lib Dems weren't a wholly owned subsidiary of the Labour party.
There was certainly an element of that but it was obvious immediately from when the LibDems agreed to a coalition that they were going to break their tuition fees promises.
And this was when the increase in tuition fees was much less than the reduction that Corbyn was offering.
Effectively by increasing student debt and then freezing the repayment threshold the Conservatives had creatd a £50k per student open goal for a Labour leader who wanted to be radical.
Comments
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7sr3t
People are dug into their GE positions too. No-one is really moving forward much.
However, great stresses are building up. Tectonic forces straining under the surface.
Decisions MUST be taken soon. (Brexit+Budget in particular).
There will be an earthquake, we will run for cover, and emerge to witness a changed landscape.
(only kidding!)
If so, that may undermine that line of attack.
These are questions we don't yet know the answer to. However, it is rapidly coming to put or shut up time. Decisions need to be made.
We will know soon enough. Hence my stasis post downthread.
Meanwhile all predictions are equally valid. I am not making one.
Prepare to take shelter.
I hope Crabb holds on.
All that 'passion and enthusiasm' still saw Corbyn win fewer seats than Kinnock got in 1992, let alone Blair got in 1997, 2001 and 2005
Still, a small scattering of chickenfeed compared to what Labour has planned:
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/919302110239449088
Only other option is to really back down, sounds like.
A term of Social Democracy sounds very pleasant.
Analysis by Professor Will Jennings of the University of Southampton for the New Economics Foundation thinktank shows a persistent and growing difference in political affiliation between cities and towns."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/14/tories-gain-ground-small-towns
Neil Kinnock spent years driving the Militant Tendency out of CLPs only for Corbyn Labour to reopen the door to them in the guise of Momentum.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/919307210689310721
And this was when the increase in tuition fees was much less than the reduction that Corbyn was offering.
Effectively by increasing student debt and then freezing the repayment threshold the Conservatives had creatd a £50k per student open goal for a Labour leader who wanted to be radical.