Mr. rkrkrk, surely 2017 and any other campaign of the last few decades?
The 2017 Conservative campaign was simply atrocious, and stupid. And entirely preventable. Getting caught out by an ambush is understandable, except when you're the one springing it.
Yes - most could do better. But 2015 really very impressive - sitting government, missing economic forecasts, no wage growth, gains seats and wins majority.
TM will need the same in the face of similar or greater adverse conditions I suspect.
What was overlooked in 2015 was that the Conservatives had a net loss of seats to Labour. Their gains came more or less exclusively from the Liberal Democrats, with some dazzling exceptions like Gwyr. That was how despite a very marginal increase in vote share they won many more seats.
Without the Liberal Democrats to squeeze this was much more obvious in 2017 and a few blows at the Nats didn't compensate.
I do not know whether Labour can repeat this trick at the next election and I think they are taking an awful lot for granted. But equally a fairly modest gain of seats might put them over the line - a net gain of twenty from the Conservatives would probably do it. They do have twenty-odd seats in London and the Midlands that look eminently attainable. That said, I think they could easily lose 15-20 in the North even on that basis where their voters are slowly falling away, which sets the bar higher.
Would Osborne make a difference? I'm inclined to doubt it. He might shore up support in the south, but it would be at a cost in the north. Meanwhile he would certainly split the party asunder after the way he's behaved in the last 18 months.
A couple of interesting points I've come across this morning, where are the post-conference opinion polls. Normally the DTM are full of the "bounce" that parties and their respective leaders have achieved levels of popularity never seen since Boudicca took on those nasty people from Italy...
Meanwhile, seems the EU commission are in serious talks with the Labour Party officials as they want assurances that an imminent Labour Government won't tear up any agreements already made:
You don't bring back Osborne for vision - you bring him back because he is a winner.
But I see no reason why Osborne would want to save May when he probably thinks many in the Cabinet would do a better job than her.
. Because he hasn't the humility to accept his failings, he's just run a nasty, personal and less than scrupulously honest campaign against someone who beat him to the prize and then had the nerve to tell him some home truths. In doing so, he may be damaging May but he is destroying himself. He is busily filling that second grave you dig before heading off to take revenge with the corpse of his political career and reputation and he doesn't even appear to realise it.
Such a person would not make a good PM, and he shouldn't be returned to the Cabinet. He had his chance, and he didn't so much blow it as throw it into the path of an oncoming hurricane while firing RPGs at it for good measure.
Mr. rkrkrk, surely 2017 and any other campaign of the last few decades?
The 2017 Conservative campaign was simply atrocious, and stupid. And entirely preventable. Getting caught out by an ambush is understandable, except when you're the one springing it.
Yes - most could do better. But 2015 really very impressive - sitting government, missing economic forecasts, no wage growth, gains seats and wins majority.
TM will need the same in the face of similar or greater adverse conditions I suspect.
What was overlooked in 2015 was that the Conservatives had a net loss of seats to Labour. Their gains came more or less exclusively from the Liberal Democrats
Yep. TCO's 'genius' lies in doing over his former coalition partners...
A couple of interesting points I've come across this morning, where are the post-conference opinion polls. Normally the DTM are full of the "bounce" that parties and their respective leaders have achieved levels of popularity never seen since Boudicca took on those nasty people from Italy...
Meanwhile, seems the EU commission are in serious talks with the Labour Party officials as they want assurances that an imminent Labour Government won't tear up any agreements already made:
That strikes me as absolutely against diplomatic protocol.
The EU, once again, demonstrating that they don't know how to behave appropriately.
The most bewildering implication of this is that despite their effective refusal to negotiate on the key points, i.e. trade and freedom of movement (which will actually be decisive on the key issues they say they are concerned about, citizens' rights, the Irish border and budget payments) they appear to still think they are on course for a deal.
Has Juncker found something even stronger than vodka and shared it with Barnier?
Indy's BMG poll gives Labour a 7 point lead = excuse for crisis headline from sample taken 10-12 days earlier. Nothing quite like pouring a quart into a pint pot.
You don't bring back Osborne for vision - you bring him back because he is a winner.
But I see no reason why Osborne would want to save May when he probably thinks many in the Cabinet would do a better job than her.
. Because he hasn't the humility to accept his failings, he's just run a nasty, personal and less than scrupulously honest campaign against someone who beat him to the prize and then had the nerve to tell him some home truths. In doing so, he may be damaging May but he is destroying himself. He is busily filling that second grave you dig before heading off to take revenge with the corpse of his political career and reputation and he doesn't even appear to realise it.
Such a person would not make a good PM, and he shouldn't be returned to the Cabinet. He had his chance, and he didn't so much blow it as throw it into the path of an oncoming hurricane while firing RPGs at it for good measure.
Interesting. I said exactly the same the other week, also invoked the Mandelson/Brown comparison, and you told me George Osborne was "totally done" with politics.
A couple of interesting points I've come across this morning, where are the post-conference opinion polls. Normally the DTM are full of the "bounce" that parties and their respective leaders have achieved levels of popularity never seen since Boudicca took on those nasty people from Italy...
Meanwhile, seems the EU commission are in serious talks with the Labour Party officials as they want assurances that an imminent Labour Government won't tear up any agreements already made:
That strikes me as absolutely against diplomatic protocol.
The EU, once again, demonstrating that they don't know how to behave appropriately.
The most bewildering implication of this is that despite their effective refusal to negotiate on the key points, i.e. trade and freedom of movement (which will actually be decisive on the key issues they say they are concerned about, citizens' rights, the Irish border and budget payments) they appear to still think they are on course for a deal.
Has Juncker found something even stronger than vodka and shared it with Barnier?
Seems to me there are two explanations:
(i) there is a proper discussion ongoing behind the scenes
(ii) the discussions with Labour were cursory/formal and someone has leaked/bigged up the story. I'd assume Labour would benefit most (undermine May / present them as the next government), but it's not impossible that some prat on the EU side thinks that it would benefit them to stir up chaos among their British negotiation counterpart
edit: just read the article. We are discussing a meeting in July that lasted "significantly more than two hours". Labour troublemaking, I think.
Interesting. I said exactly the same the other week, also invoked the Mandelson/Brown comparison, and you told me George Osborne was "totally done" with politics.
Of course he isn't.
He's doing over politics rather than done with it.
Anyway, I have a two manual organ to inflate. Can't manage a proper eight foot horn this morning as it needs a bit of a tune, but I'm hoping to achieve some kind of climax by using the octave couplers.
"Commit billions of pounds ... to save her Premiership". Long live the magic money tree. Always there to save the careers of Tory PMs, if not to help the poorest and most vulnerable. https://twitter.com/rachshabi/status/916773289007206401
It's really not hard. The billions she won't have to write a cheque for to Brussels.
If that were the case she'd have been preparing already.
The issue is that the infrastructure/IT projects that'd be properly needed to show we were really serious about leaving (and coping) with absolutely no deal would take 5-7 years to complete, quite a bit would require planning approval, and require a lot of industry manpower and project management expertise to execute, plus the new staff hires.
But, she could do some highly visible quick-and-dirty key moves at major ports/airports on extra customs channels/depots for 6 months next year, if needs be.
At first I thought this was tongue in cheek until I realised who the author was. Among the general public I can't think of a more unpopular politician than Osborne, most of them divide opinion, he doesn't.
I think the tide has turned on Osborne's unpopularity. When the public became aquainted with the rest of the freaks circus Osborne began to look significantly more attractive
Outside London I suspect he's more or less sunk without trace.
Didn't he used to be somebody?
Was he the only politician booed at the Olympics?
Maybe but I doubt when the history is written he'll be the one who got the one way ticket to Palookaville....
Interesting. I said exactly the same the other week, also invoked the Mandelson/Brown comparison, and you told me George Osborne was "totally done" with politics.
Of course he isn't.
Anyway, I have a two manual organ to inflate. Can't manage a proper eight foot horn this morning as it needs a bit of a tune, but I'm hoping to achieve some kind of climax by using the octave couplers.
A couple of interesting points I've come across this morning, where are the post-conference opinion polls. Normally the DTM are full of the "bounce" that parties and their respective leaders have achieved levels of popularity never seen since Boudicca took on those nasty people from Italy...
Meanwhile, seems the EU commission are in serious talks with the Labour Party officials as they want assurances that an imminent Labour Government won't tear up any agreements already made:
That strikes me as absolutely against diplomatic protocol.
The EU, once again, demonstrating that they don't know how to behave appropriately.
The most bewildering implication of this is that despite their effective refusal to negotiate on the key points, i.e. trade and freedom of movement (which will actually be decisive on the key issues they say they are concerned about, citizens' rights, the Irish border and budget payments) they appear to still think they are on course for a deal.
Has Juncker found something even stronger than vodka and shared it with Barnier?
Isn't it more a case that they think the Tory government might collapse before the talks do?
You don't bring back Osborne for vision - you bring him back because he is a winner.
But I see no reason why Osborne would want to save May when he probably thinks many in the Cabinet would do a better job than her.
That "winner" lost the Referendum and consequently, got the UK out the EU. Quite a CV....
Nobody, whether May or her successor, should want someone near the levers of power who could read the public mood so badly.
Compare and contrast the 2015 and 2017 Tory campaigns.
In 2015, the Sir Lynton had time to work with the Tories to prepare the groundwork.
In 2017, not so much.
Theresa May is on political life-support because of her failure to judge the public mood correctly. Osborne has had his switched off for the same reason.
"Commit billions of pounds ... to save her Premiership". Long live the magic money tree. Always there to save the careers of Tory PMs, if not to help the poorest and most vulnerable. https://twitter.com/rachshabi/status/916773289007206401
It's really not hard. The billions she won't have to write a cheque for to Brussels.
If that were the case she'd have been preparing already.
The issue is that the infrastructure/IT projects that'd be properly needed to show we were really serious about leaving (and coping) with absolutely no deal would take 5-7 years to complete, quite a bit would require planning approval, and require a lot of industry manpower and project management expertise to execute, plus the new staff hires.
But, she could do some highly visible quick-and-dirty key moves at major ports/airports on extra customs channels/depots for 6 months next year, if needs be.
If she was serious she'd have been doing it already.
At first I thought this was tongue in cheek until I realised who the author was. Among the general public I can't think of a more unpopular politician than Osborne, most of them divide opinion, he doesn't.
Speaking personally, I've rather warmed to him since he left office.
It's always easier to warm to people after they have left office.
At first I thought this was tongue in cheek until I realised who the author was. Among the general public I can't think of a more unpopular politician than Osborne, most of them divide opinion, he doesn't.
I think the tide has turned on Osborne's unpopularity. When the public became aquainted with the rest of the freaks circus Osborne began to look significantly more attractive
Outside London I suspect he's more or less sunk without trace.
Didn't he used to be somebody?
Was he the only politician booed at the Olympics?
Maybe but I doubt when the history is written he'll be the one who got the one way ticket to Palookaville....
he's simply Captain Darling to Camerons General Melchett
A couple of interesting points I've come across this morning, where are the post-conference opinion polls. Normally the DTM are full of the "bounce" that parties and their respective leaders have achieved levels of popularity never seen since Boudicca took on those nasty people from Italy...
Meanwhile, seems the EU commission are in serious talks with the Labour Party officials as they want assurances that an imminent Labour Government won't tear up any agreements already made:
That strikes me as absolutely against diplomatic protocol.
The EU, once again, demonstrating that they don't know how to behave appropriately.
The most bewildering implication of this is that despite their effective refusal to negotiate on the key points, i.e. trade and freedom of movement (which will actually be decisive on the key issues they say they are concerned about, citizens' rights, the Irish border and budget payments) they appear to still think they are on course for a deal.
Has Juncker found something even stronger than vodka and shared it with Barnier?
Isn't it more a case that they think the Tory government might collapse before the talks do?
Ironically, the biggest threat I see to the UK Govt. is the issue of tariffs. The threat of job losses at Bombardier in Northern Ireland could be what peels the DUP away from the Tories....
Just read a sun peice about bringing new blood into the cabinet. It mentions Cleverly, Atkins, Raab but no mention of Mercer? I'd see him as one to watch
George Osborne remains box office, as the splenetic reaction of pb's Leavers on this thread shows. But I doubt he has the slightest interest in helping to release Theresa May from her lobster pot.
Boris Johnson should be replaced, however.
George Osborne spent all but the last six months of his political career depicting the EU as a destructive force intent on doing harm to the UK, as did David Cameron. They were both pivotal in creating the anti-EU narrative that so pervaded public discourse in this country in the decade before the referendum. Where we are now is as much his fault as Theresa May's.
A bit of an exaggeration. I think the right wing foreign owned newspapers were by far the most responsible. There's only so much brainwashing the good folk of Hartlepool can absorb before they get hooked.
Boris is obviously going to have to go. May could head off repercussion from his defenestrations by elevating one of his more prominent porte-étendards to high office.
First catch your hare, Mr Ace. Who is this unknown person of whom you speak?
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
I have no hesitation in saying she should put herself forward. She would change the narrative in a heart beat
A couple of interesting points I've come across this morning, where are the post-conference opinion polls. Normally the DTM are full of the "bounce" that parties and their respective leaders have achieved levels of popularity never seen since Boudicca took on those nasty people from Italy...
Meanwhile, seems the EU commission are in serious talks with the Labour Party officials as they want assurances that an imminent Labour Government won't tear up any agreements already made:
George Osborne remains box office, as the splenetic reaction of pb's Leavers on this thread shows. But I doubt he has the slightest interest in helping to release Theresa May from her lobster pot.
Boris Johnson should be replaced, however.
George Osborne spent all but the last six months of his political career depicting the EU as a destructive force intent on doing harm to the UK, as did David Cameron. They were both pivotal in creating the anti-EU narrative that so pervaded public discourse in this country in the decade before the referendum. Where we are now is as much his fault as Theresa May's.
A bit of an exaggeration. I think the right wing foreign owned newspapers were by far the most responsible. There's only so much brainwashing the good folk of Hartlepool can absorb before they get hooked.
Up until the referendum campaign, Osborne and Cameron happily danced to the right wing press's tune on the EU. If the PM and Chancellor continually talk about the EU in negative terms, you can't blame voters in Hartlepool or anywhere else for believing them.
George Osborne remains box office, as the splenetic reaction of pb's Leavers on this thread shows. But I doubt he has the slightest interest in helping to release Theresa May from her lobster pot.
Boris Johnson should be replaced, however.
George Osborne spent all but the last six months of his political career depicting the EU as a destructive force intent on doing harm to the UK, as did David Cameron. They were both pivotal in creating the anti-EU narrative that so pervaded public discourse in this country in the decade before the referendum. Where we are now is as much his fault as Theresa May's.
A bit of an exaggeration. I think the right wing foreign owned newspapers were by far the most responsible. There's only so much brainwashing the good folk of Hartlepool can absorb before they get hooked.
Up until the referendum campaign, Osborne and Cameron happily danced to the right wing press's tune on the EU. If the PM and Chancellor continually talk about the EU in negative terms, you can't blame voters in Hartlepool or anywhere else for believing them.
So on one hand people say Cameron and co were terrible at convincing people, they only got a majority due to the ld collapse, the other says they were too good at convincing people.
People's views of the eu were formed over many many years tif many different reasons. I find it unlikely the pm and chancellor really had that big an impact, not least because millions of left wing people voted to leave too.
Question is, next time will Catalans vote for the separatists en masse a la SNP 2015, or will they turn against them in strength?
Will the same parties be allowed to stand? If they don't declare then the leaders can be barred from office again, but if they declare then even ignoring their support for the referendum they have surely gone too far as a party in the eyes of Spanish law?
George Osborne remains box office, as the splenetic reaction of pb's Leavers on this thread shows. But I doubt he has the slightest interest in helping to release Theresa May from her lobster pot.
Boris Johnson should be replaced, however.
George Osborne spent all but the last six months of his political career depicting the EU as a destructive force intent on doing harm to the UK, as did David Cameron. They were both pivotal in creating the anti-EU narrative that so pervaded public discourse in this country in the decade before the referendum. Where we are now is as much his fault as Theresa May's.
A bit of an exaggeration. I think the right wing foreign owned newspapers were by far the most responsible. There's only so much brainwashing the good folk of Hartlepool can absorb before they get hooked.
Up until the referendum campaign, Osborne and Cameron happily danced to the right wing press's tune on the EU. If the PM and Chancellor continually talk about the EU in negative terms, you can't blame voters in Hartlepool or anywhere else for believing them.
So on one hand people say Cameron and co were terrible at convincing people, they only got a majority due to the ld collapse, the other says they were too good at convincing people.
People's views of the eu were formed over many many years tif many different reasons. I find it unlikely the pm and chancellor really had that big an impact, not least because millions of left wing people voted to leave too.
remainers are pining for leadership from two blokes who were outwitted by a bus
George Osborne remains box office, as the splenetic reaction of pb's Leavers on this thread shows. But I doubt he has the slightest interest in helping to release Theresa May from her lobster pot.
Boris Johnson should be replaced, however.
George Osborne spent all but the last six months of his political career depicting the EU as a destructive force intent on doing harm to the UK, as did David Cameron. They were both pivotal in creating the anti-EU narrative that so pervaded public discourse in this country in the decade before the referendum. Where we are now is as much his fault as Theresa May's.
A bit of an exaggeration. I think the right wing foreign owned newspapers were by far the most responsible. There's only so much brainwashing the good folk of Hartlepool can absorb before they get hooked.
Up until the referendum campaign, Osborne and Cameron happily danced to the right wing press's tune on the EU. If the PM and Chancellor continually talk about the EU in negative terms, you can't blame voters in Hartlepool or anywhere else for believing them.
So on one hand people say Cameron and co were terrible at convincing people, they only got a majority due to the ld collapse, the other says they were too good at convincing people.
People's views of the eu were formed over many many years tif many different reasons. I find it unlikely the pm and chancellor really had that big an impact, not least because millions of left wing people voted to leave too.
remainers are pining for leadership from two blokes who were outwitted by a bus
George Osborne remains box office, as the splenetic reaction of pb's Leavers on this thread shows. But I doubt he has the slightest interest in helping to release Theresa May from her lobster pot.
Boris Johnson should be replaced, however.
George Osborne spent all but the last six months of his political career depicting the EU as a destructive force intent on doing harm to the UK, as did David Cameron. They were both pivotal in creating the anti-EU narrative that so pervaded public discourse in this country in the decade before the referendum. Where we are now is as much his fault as Theresa May's.
A bit of an exaggeration. I think the right wing foreign owned newspapers were by far the most responsible. There's only so much brainwashing the good folk of Hartlepool can absorb before they get hooked.
Up until the referendum campaign, Osborne and Cameron happily danced to the right wing press's tune on the EU. If the PM and Chancellor continually talk about the EU in negative terms, you can't blame voters in Hartlepool or anywhere else for believing them.
So on one hand people say Cameron and co were terrible at convincing people, they only got a majority due to the ld collapse, the other says they were too good at convincing people.
People's views of the eu were formed over many many years tif many different reasons. I find it unlikely the pm and chancellor really had that big an impact, not least because millions of left wing people voted to leave too.
remainers are pining for leadership from two blokes who were outwitted by a bus
George Osborne remains box office, as the splenetic reaction of pb's Leavers on this thread shows. But I doubt he has the slightest interest in helping to release Theresa May from her lobster pot.
Boris Johnson should be replaced, however.
George Osborne spent all but the last six months of his political career depicting the EU as a destructive force intent on doing harm to the UK, as did David Cameron. They were both pivotal in creating the anti-EU narrative that so pervaded public discourse in this country in the decade before the referendum. Where we are now is as much his fault as Theresa May's.
A bit of an exaggeration. I think the right wing foreign owned newspapers were by far the most responsible. There's only so much brainwashing the good folk of Hartlepool can absorb before they get hooked.
Up until the referendum campaign, Osborne and Cameron happily danced to the right wing press's tune on the EU. If the PM and Chancellor continually talk about the EU in negative terms, you can't blame voters in Hartlepool or anywhere else for believing them.
So on one hand people say Cameron and co were terrible at convincing people, they only got a majority due to the ld collapse, the other says they were too good at convincing people.
People's views of the eu were formed over many many years tif many different reasons. I find it unlikely the pm and chancellor really had that big an impact, not least because millions of left wing people voted to leave too.
remainers are pining for leadership from two blokes who were outwitted by a bus
I'm actually a fan of Cameron's, but if there are to be regrets for me for voting the way I did, it would be my fault not his for providing the opportunity - if someone opens a door for me and lots of people tell me not to go through it as there's no floor on the other side, it's my fault if I still go through and fall over.
Shapps is clearly not contesting his seat and maybe has something else lined up,the House of Lords and a good payin' sinecure?. In general,I will be taking a look at the MPs pension scheme.This maybe a motivational factor in any other rats deserting the Titantic aka the UK Tory party,and helpful in assessing next to leave the cabinet market.
"Commit billions of pounds ... to save her Premiership". Long live the magic money tree. Always there to save the careers of Tory PMs, if not to help the poorest and most vulnerable. https://twitter.com/rachshabi/status/916773289007206401
It's really not hard. The billions she won't have to write a cheque for to Brussels.
Thought that was going to the NHS or was that bus just a Boris Tory joke.
Just read a sun peice about bringing new blood into the cabinet. It mentions Cleverly, Atkins, Raab but no mention of Mercer? I'd see him as one to watch
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
I have no hesitation in saying she should put herself forward. She would change the narrative in a heart beat
You know she would sign up to EFTA and FoM in an instant?
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
Dear God, if that windbag is the answer the UK is truly F******* big time. Scotland's Boris without the brains.
And what is this 'vision thing' which George has ?
There is more to politics than which arse is sat on which green bench.
And I've seen more than enough since 2010 to not want any more of George Osborne's reality of borrow and bribe, stagnant productivity and wages, falling home ownership, intergenerational inequality and a 115bn current account deficit.
George Osborne remains box office, as the splenetic reaction of pb's Leavers on this thread shows. But I doubt he has the slightest interest in helping to release Theresa May from her lobster pot. Boris Johnson should be replaced, however.
George Osborne spent all but the last six months of his political career depicting the EU as a destructive force intent on doing harm to the UK, as did David Cameron. They were both pivotal in creating the anti-EU narrative that so pervaded public discourse in this country in the decade before the referendum. Where we are now is as much his fault as Theresa May's.
Up until the referendum campaign, Osborne and Cameron happily danced to the right wing press's tune on the EU. If the PM and Chancellor continually talk about the EU in negative terms, you can't blame voters in Hartlepool or anywhere else for believing them.
So on one hand people say Cameron and co were terrible at convincing people, they only got a majority due to the ld collapse, the other says they were too good at convincing people. People's views of the eu were formed over many many years tif many different reasons. I find it unlikely the pm and chancellor really had that big an impact, not least because millions of left wing people voted to leave too.
remainers are pining for leadership from two blokes who were outwitted by a bus
I think you mean Tory Remainers, Mr Brooke. The rest of us are certainly not pining for them.
Question is, next time will Catalans vote for the separatists en masse a la SNP 2015, or will they turn against them in strength?
There'll be an independence declaration of some kind next week. The separatists will then be hoping for the kind of reaction from Madrid they got last Sunday. If that happens, things will get worse. If it doesn't the likelihood is that the independence coalition will begin to fragment - the exodus of banks and businesses from Barcelona is clearly spooking its centre right element. Assuming the PP is not immensely stupid - and that really can't be taken for granted - what we are likely to see is stalemate, and that suits the status quo. Hopefully, what we will see in future is more engagement in Catalan elections from those whose first language is Spanish. Currently, they do not vote in large numbers and that gives nationalist parties a big advantage. Now they've seen what not taking part can lead to, perhaps they'll use the power they have. There's a big no-split rally and march planned in Barcelona today. It'll be interesting to see how many turn up.
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
I have no hesitation in saying she should put herself forward. She would change the narrative in a heart beat
May is not going anywhere. At lunch yesterday my father made the following aperçu with all the delicacy one would expect of a career diplomat: May has been shagging an unfunny Arthur Askey lookalike for forty years so she is nothing if not stoic.
Just read a sun peice about bringing new blood into the cabinet. It mentions Cleverly, Atkins, Raab but no mention of Mercer? I'd see him as one to watch
Erm, what about Rory?
It would be high risk for a junior MP to accept a ministerial appointment. They'll be getting walloped from all sides, briefed against and in constant danger of being hug out to dry.
At least on the backbenches, you can be Mr/Mrs constituency and stay fairly anonymous until it suits.
Remember Stephen Crabb accepting the DWP job in March '16? It was a rather poisoned chalice which didn't do him any favours.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
Just read a sun peice about bringing new blood into the cabinet. It mentions Cleverly, Atkins, Raab but no mention of Mercer? I'd see him as one to watch
Erm, what about Rory?
It would be high risk for a junior MP to accept a ministerial appointment. They'll be getting walloped from all sides, briefed against and in constant danger of being hug out to dry.
At least on the backbenches, you can be Mr/Mrs constituency and stay fairly anonymous until it suits.
Remember Stephen Crabb accepting the DWP job in March '16? It was a rather poisoned chalice which didn't do him any favours.
Rory is already a Minister. In fact he is two ministers. He is Minister of State for International Development and Minister of State for Africa. He is also the Chairman of the Commons Defence Select Committee.
So I suspect he can hold his own against the wallopers.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
And what are Ruth's political ideas ? Apart from:
1) No to Scottish independence 2) Keeping WFA in Scotland
She would need a lot more than that to be in government.
And she would also need to be able to make hard and unpopular decisions - judging from (2) above she lacks that ability.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
The cabinet is sorely lacking intellectual firepower (understatement) and GO would go a long way to restore some basic political competence. We could probably have quite a decent Brexit if GO and Mandy were doing the deals for us. As it is, we've got the half pissed ham beast of Davis who clearly knows the game is almost up and Fox who appears to have been locked in a Whitehall cupboard for the good of the country during this time of national crisis.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
You didn't need a planet sized brain to spot that. You just needed to be as dumb as a brick not to.
It is a subject that needs discussion, but by somebody that can convince it is the right way to move. And only once an election victory has been secured.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
As mentioned on the previous thread, the Observer says they have an Opinium poll post-conferences which shows Labour and Corbyn up, May down, but no figures on that, so far as I can see. Odd.
volcanopete: essentially the MP pension scheme gives you a proportion of final salary for every year you serve - used to be 1/40, then 1/50, and is now I think 1/60. There is some sort of cap (66%? Not in issue unless you serve several decades), but you can buy a couple of years in retrospect. I get about £17K before tax for 13 years' service. It's good, but not so magnificent as to affect career decisions much, I'd have thought. Ex-Ministers have a separate scheme which presumably is as good and will reflect their extra salaries.
Gove has form for pursuing grand ideals and neglecting the day job. I can't wait for Cummings' tweets and blog posts on how blobby economists at the Treasury are stalling Michael's plans to revert to the gold standard.
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
Dear God, if that windbag is the answer the UK is truly F******* big time. Scotland's Boris without the brains.
You seem a touch obsessed with the poor lady, malcolm. You do know you've no chance there ?
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
That is the George Osborne whose Budgets had a habit of disintegrating in a flurry of headlines about tax increases and spending cuts.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
That is the George Osborne whose Budgets had a habit of disintegrating in a flurry of headlines about tax increases and spending cuts.
And yet, after five Osborne budgets we moved from a minority to a majority in Parliament.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
You didn't need a planet sized brain to spot that. You just needed to be as dumb as a brick not to.
It is a subject that needs discussion, but by somebody that can convince it is the right way to move. And only once an election victory has been secured.
How much would council tax need to increase to fund it ?
As mentioned on the previous thread, the Observer says they have an Opinium poll post-conferences which shows Labour and Corbyn up, May down, but no figures on that, so far as I can see. Odd.
volcanopete: essentially the MP pension scheme gives you a proportion of final salary for every year you serve - used to be 1/40, then 1/50, and is now I think 1/60. There is some sort of cap (66%? Not in issue unless you serve several decades), but you can buy a couple of years in retrospect. I get about £17K before tax for 13 years' service. It's good, but not so magnificent as to affect career decisions much, I'd have thought. Ex-Ministers have a separate scheme which presumably is as good and will reflect their extra salaries.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
"Pasty Tax" - Courtesy of one George Osborne.
Something hardly important but which was blown way out of proportion? If that were the worst of him, I'd say sign him up.
Just read a sun peice about bringing new blood into the cabinet. It mentions Cleverly, Atkins, Raab but no mention of Mercer? I'd see him as one to watch
Erm, what about Rory?
It would be high risk for a junior MP to accept a ministerial appointment. They'll be getting walloped from all sides, briefed against and in constant danger of being hug out to dry.
At least on the backbenches, you can be Mr/Mrs constituency and stay fairly anonymous until it suits.
Remember Stephen Crabb accepting the DWP job in March '16? It was a rather poisoned chalice which didn't do him any favours.
Rory is already a Minister. In fact he is two ministers. He is Minister of State for International Development and Minister of State for Africa. He is also the Chairman of the Commons Defence Select Committee.
So I suspect he can hold his own against the wallopers.
The invisible man, being in charge of the equivalent of a table and chairs tells all. Can he go any lower.
Just read a sun peice about bringing new blood into the cabinet. It mentions Cleverly, Atkins, Raab but no mention of Mercer? I'd see him as one to watch
Erm, what about Rory?
It would be high risk for a junior MP to accept a ministerial appointment. They'll be getting walloped from all sides, briefed against and in constant danger of being hug out to dry.
At least on the backbenches, you can be Mr/Mrs constituency and stay fairly anonymous until it suits.
Remember Stephen Crabb accepting the DWP job in March '16? It was a rather poisoned chalice which didn't do him any favours.
Rory is already a Minister. In fact he is two ministers. He is Minister of State for International Development and Minister of State for Africa. He is also the Chairman of the Commons Defence Select Committee.
So I suspect he can hold his own against the wallopers.
The invisible man, being in charge of the equivalent of a table and chairs tells all. Can he go any lower.
As mentioned on the previous thread, the Observer says they have an Opinium poll post-conferences which shows Labour and Corbyn up, May down, but no figures on that, so far as I can see. Odd.
volcanopete: essentially the MP pension scheme gives you a proportion of final salary for every year you serve - used to be 1/40, then 1/50, and is now I think 1/60. There is some sort of cap (66%? Not in issue unless you serve several decades), but you can buy a couple of years in retrospect. I get about £17K before tax for 13 years' service. It's good, but not so magnificent as to affect career decisions much, I'd have thought. Ex-Ministers have a separate scheme which presumably is as good and will reflect their extra salaries.
Labour lead 42/40 with Opinium.
Corbyn and May continue to be completely reliant on each other.
Just read a sun peice about bringing new blood into the cabinet. It mentions Cleverly, Atkins, Raab but no mention of Mercer? I'd see him as one to watch
Erm, what about Rory?
It would be high risk for a junior MP to accept a ministerial appointment. They'll be getting walloped from all sides, briefed against and in constant danger of being hug out to dry.
At least on the backbenches, you can be Mr/Mrs constituency and stay fairly anonymous until it suits.
Remember Stephen Crabb accepting the DWP job in March '16? It was a rather poisoned chalice which didn't do him any favours.
Rory is already a Minister. In fact he is two ministers. He is Minister of State for International Development and Minister of State for Africa. He is also the Chairman of the Commons Defence Select Committee.
So I suspect he can hold his own against the wallopers.
The invisible man, being in charge of the equivalent of a table and chairs tells all. Can he go any lower.
Morning Malcolm. Nice to see you making your normal valuable contribution to the debate this morning. And of course he can go lower. If he was really unlucky he could be a minister in the Scottish Government.
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
Dear God, if that windbag is the answer the UK is truly F******* big time. Scotland's Boris without the brains.
You seem a touch obsessed with the poor lady, malcolm. You do know you've no chance there ?
Even the thought of that has spoiled my day. I amazed ( even though it is normal here) that idiots on here think she could be in charge of anything. A self aggrandising policy free windbag is about the best you could say about her , even for a supposed Tory she takes the biscuit. Her Ruth Davidson pseudo Tory party will explode if ever exposed to the truth.
That c*** Osborne is the source of a huge number of the problems, he’s certainly not part of any solution.
I'd rather he be in the tent pissing out than what he's currently doing. Plus he's got a very sharp political mind, were he the chancellor in the run up to the election he would never have allowed the dementia tax to get anywhere near the papers.
That is the George Osborne whose Budgets had a habit of disintegrating in a flurry of headlines about tax increases and spending cuts.
And yet, after five Osborne budgets we moved from a minority to a majority in Parliament.
And after those five Osborne budgets borrowing predictions had increased by hundreds of billions and we had the likes of triple lock pensions and help to raise house prices which are so damaging to the country.
My interest is not about which arse sits on which green bench but what effect they have on the country.
And I see little evidence of the Osborne fans explaining that beyond boasting that Osborne's magic money tree promises were more popular than those of Ed Miliband's.
A couple of interesting points I've come across this morning, where are the post-conference opinion polls. Normally the DTM are full of the "bounce" that parties and their respective leaders have achieved levels of popularity never seen since Boudicca took on those nasty people from Italy...
Meanwhile, seems the EU commission are in serious talks with the Labour Party officials as they want assurances that an imminent Labour Government won't tear up any agreements already made:
That strikes me as absolutely against diplomatic protocol.
The EU, once again, demonstrating that they don't know how to behave appropriately.
Er! No, just being realistic. Even the UK Civil Servants will have been talking to the Labour Party so that in any chance of an election, there will be a smooth handover and a sense of continuance.
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
And what are Ruth's political ideas ? Apart from:
1) No to Scottish independence 2) Keeping WFA in Scotland
She would need a lot more than that to be in government.
And she would also need to be able to make hard and unpopular decisions - judging from (2) above she lacks that ability.
Don't forget building five new towns with the magic money tree then punting the houses off. That's a real winner.
As mentioned on the previous thread, the Observer says they have an Opinium poll post-conferences which shows Labour and Corbyn up, May down, but no figures on that, so far as I can see. Odd.
volcanopete: essentially the MP pension scheme gives you a proportion of final salary for every year you serve - used to be 1/40, then 1/50, and is now I think 1/60. There is some sort of cap (66%? Not in issue unless you serve several decades), but you can buy a couple of years in retrospect. I get about £17K before tax for 13 years' service. It's good, but not so magnificent as to affect career decisions much, I'd have thought. Ex-Ministers have a separate scheme which presumably is as good and will reflect their extra salaries.
If it's this one - Corbyn now leads May on best PM 32-30.
How credible are the Boris is skint stories? His book royalties will still be flowing in, and he recently did eight years as Mayor of London so he's not had a massive pay cut. The only thing Boris will be missing is income from journalism.
He was earning 250k per year for his Telegraph column, which he had to give up when he became Foreign Secretary
So Boris sacrificed income for a government post, Osborne jumped ship from public service to make as much wonga as possible elsewhere. I'm not sure how you square that with "I’m sure George Osborne, a man who loves his country and party, would be willing to serve for the national interest."
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
Dear God, if that windbag is the answer the UK is truly F******* big time. Scotland's Boris without the brains.
You seem a touch obsessed with the poor lady, malcolm. You do know you've no chance there ?
Even the thought of that has spoiled my day. I amazed ( even though it is normal here) that idiots on here think she could be in charge of anything. A self aggrandising policy free windbag is about the best you could say about her , even for a supposed Tory she takes the biscuit. Her Ruth Davidson pseudo Tory party will explode if ever exposed to the truth.
You're welcome.
Self aggrandising is hardly a quality with which one might judge one politician against any other - and as far as policy is concerned, she's not really been around long enough, or been near enough executive power, to make a hard judgment. I appreciate that her politics are diametrically opposed to yours in imporatant respects, but as far as her qualities as a leader are concerned, it's a bit early to judge, IMO. What's undeniable is her facility as a media performer.
Here it is. Nothing very remarkable not in the summary on the link page: Labour marginally ahead (were marginally behind with Opinium before the conferences), Corbyn rating up significantly but still negative, May much worse though still just ahead on Best PM. One can spin it various ways as we usually do, so I won't bother!
Wee Ruth could not be PM from outside the Commons, but is there any reason she could not be in another cabinet role, such as Foreign Secretary or Brexit Secretary?
Listening to Ruth Davidson on Marr she leaves plenty of wiggle room to stand as leader
And she gives a better interview than anyone else in the party. She is positive, amusing, engaging and informative. Some of the cabinet can tick some of those boxes but none of them can tick them all.
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
And what are Ruth's political ideas ? Apart from:
1) No to Scottish independence 2) Keeping WFA in Scotland
She would need a lot more than that to be in government.
And she would also need to be able to make hard and unpopular decisions - judging from (2) above she lacks that ability.
Don't forget building five new towns with the magic money tree then punting the houses off. That's a real winner.
Thanks.
Did Ruth say where these five new towns were to be located ?
Comments
Without the Liberal Democrats to squeeze this was much more obvious in 2017 and a few blows at the Nats didn't compensate.
I do not know whether Labour can repeat this trick at the next election and I think they are taking an awful lot for granted. But equally a fairly modest gain of seats might put them over the line - a net gain of twenty from the Conservatives would probably do it. They do have twenty-odd seats in London and the Midlands that look eminently attainable. That said, I think they could easily lose 15-20 in the North even on that basis where their voters are slowly falling away, which sets the bar higher.
Would Osborne make a difference? I'm inclined to doubt it. He might shore up support in the south, but it would be at a cost in the north. Meanwhile he would certainly split the party asunder after the way he's behaved in the last 18 months.
The EU, once again, demonstrating that they don't know how to behave appropriately.
Has Juncker found something even stronger than vodka and shared it with Barnier?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-tories-poll-latest-lead-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-pm-general-election-five-points-bmg-a7988166.html
If that speech was a disaster, then that poll doesn't show it.
Of course he isn't.
(i) there is a proper discussion ongoing behind the scenes
(ii) the discussions with Labour were cursory/formal and someone has leaked/bigged up the story. I'd assume Labour would benefit most (undermine May / present them as the next government), but it's not impossible that some prat on the EU side thinks that it would benefit them to stir up chaos among their British negotiation counterpart
edit: just read the article. We are discussing a meeting in July that lasted "significantly more than two hours". Labour troublemaking, I think.
Anyway, I have a two manual organ to inflate. Can't manage a proper eight foot horn this morning as it needs a bit of a tune, but I'm hoping to achieve some kind of climax by using the octave couplers.
Have a good morning everyone.
But, she could do some highly visible quick-and-dirty key moves at major ports/airports on extra customs channels/depots for 6 months next year, if needs be.
In 2017, not so much.
Theresa May is on political life-support because of her failure to judge the public mood correctly. Osborne has had his switched off for the same reason.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3443568/ukip-fight-hartlepool-paul-nuttall-campaign/
I agree with her that she has an important job in Scotland but it may be that the needs of the country override that.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3443568/ukip-fight-hartlepool-paul-nuttall-campaign/
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/07/catalonia-independence-spain-protest
Question is, next time will Catalans vote for the separatists en masse a la SNP 2015, or will they turn against them in strength?
People's views of the eu were formed over many many years tif many different reasons. I find it unlikely the pm and chancellor really had that big an impact, not least because millions of left wing people voted to leave too.
lets cut the crap and put it in Number 10
In general,I will be taking a look at the MPs pension scheme.This maybe a motivational factor in any other rats deserting the Titantic aka the UK Tory party,and helpful in assessing next to leave the cabinet market.
There is more to politics than which arse is sat on which green bench.
And I've seen more than enough since 2010 to not want any more of George Osborne's reality of borrow and bribe, stagnant productivity and wages, falling home ownership, intergenerational inequality and a 115bn current account deficit.
https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/10/the-case-for-sending-gove-to-the-treasury.html
At least on the backbenches, you can be Mr/Mrs constituency and stay fairly anonymous until it suits.
Remember Stephen Crabb accepting the DWP job in March '16? It was a rather poisoned chalice which didn't do him any favours.
How do young people manage to do this all day ?
Is this another sign that I'm getting old ?
So I suspect he can hold his own against the wallopers.
1) No to Scottish independence
2) Keeping WFA in Scotland
She would need a lot more than that to be in government.
And she would also need to be able to make hard and unpopular decisions - judging from (2) above she lacks that ability.
It is a subject that needs discussion, but by somebody that can convince it is the right way to move. And only once an election victory has been secured.
volcanopete: essentially the MP pension scheme gives you a proportion of final salary for every year you serve - used to be 1/40, then 1/50, and is now I think 1/60. There is some sort of cap (66%? Not in issue unless you serve several decades), but you can buy a couple of years in retrospect. I get about £17K before tax for 13 years' service. It's good, but not so magnificent as to affect career decisions much, I'd have thought. Ex-Ministers have a separate scheme which presumably is as good and will reflect their extra salaries.
You do know you've no chance there ?
What did you make of Theresa conference speech?
A self aggrandising policy free windbag is about the best you could say about her , even for a supposed Tory she takes the biscuit. Her Ruth Davidson pseudo Tory party will explode if ever exposed to the truth.
My interest is not about which arse sits on which green bench but what effect they have on the country.
And I see little evidence of the Osborne fans explaining that beyond boasting that Osborne's magic money tree promises were more popular than those of Ed Miliband's.
https://twitter.com/monkey_sponge/status/916645791078518785
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-tories-poll-latest-lead-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-pm-general-election-five-points-bmg-a7988166.html?amp
Self aggrandising is hardly a quality with which one might judge one politician against any other - and as far as policy is concerned, she's not really been around long enough, or been near enough executive power, to make a hard judgment.
I appreciate that her politics are diametrically opposed to yours in imporatant respects, but as far as her qualities as a leader are concerned, it's a bit early to judge, IMO. What's undeniable is her facility as a media performer.
http://opinium.co.uk/political-polling-4th-october-2017/
Did Ruth say where these five new towns were to be located ?
Cant say I have followed too closely
Its Sunday
We need a Sunil on Sunday