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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Political Betting Local By-Election Conference Bounce Inde

SystemSystem Posts: 12,259
edited September 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Political Betting Local By-Election Conference Bounce Index : Week One

Over the next few weeks the major parties will be holding their party conferences and just as in every other week there are local by-elections all over the country, therefore for the duration of this Parliament we will be keeping track of how the parties do in the week of their party conferences. This week the Liberal Democrats met in Bournemouth and there were three local by-elections in Chesterfield, Oadby and Wigston and Waveney, so let’s see how they did and get a score to place on the board that Corbyn meeting in Brighton will need to match this time next week.

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Comments

  • First?
  • Yay!
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,518
    Third.
  • Feel the power of the Cablemonster!
  • Move over, Jezza, there's an old kid on the block.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,337
    edited September 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.

    Bah, it's a Babylon 5 reference, when it was confirmed who Sinclair really was and what happened to Bablyon 4.

    I reckon that two parter was the best episode of B5, ergo that makes it classic.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,056
    Afternoon all :)

    Pleased though I am for the LDs picking up two seats, the Chesterfield gain was in a seat the Party held for many years with last night's winning candidate as the Councillor while Oadby & Wigston is one of the few councils held by the party and last night's gain simply reversed a Labour gain and wiped them off the council.

    I don't therefore read huge significance into these results apart from being pleased two seats were gained.
  • RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.

    'War Without End' was a Babylon 5 episode.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    FPT:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I actually struggle to think of any service that has done more to improve the lives of ordinary people than Uber*. Between UberX and UberPool, it slashed the cost of transport for millions. Because of the review system, it encouraged drivers to be polite, to keep clean cars, and to drive well.

    I hope that politicians of all hues stand up against this appalling decision.

    * OK, maybe that's a little strong.

    It has slashed the cost of transport for millions, by losing billions of dollars.

    Uber is an extraordinarily successful attempt to hoodwink silicon valley investors into giving away vast amounts of money to taxi drivers and a great service for far too little to consumers.
    Or, lose money until you have swiped away any competition and then raise prices.
    They won't be able to wipe out the competition.
    Even if they were - it would come back when they raised prices/cut driver payments.
  • Cheers for this, Mr. Hayfield.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,268
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Pleased though I am for the LDs picking up two seats, the Chesterfield gain was in a seat the Party held for many years with last night's winning candidate as the Councillor while Oadby & Wigston is one of the few councils held by the party and last night's gain simply reversed a Labour gain and wiped them off the council.

    I don't therefore read huge significance into these results apart from being pleased two seats were gained.

    Useful context, thank you.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,995

    I was not aware that US kettles are manufactured at half the power rating. That would explain it.

    Yeah you don't get 3 kW kettles (as God intended) in the US, some of the maniacs even use the microwave.

    Yep, if you can wait an hour, you don't need much current (although you'd need good insulation to stop a large chunk of the energy being lost over the time). But to boil a kettle fast, you need that hefty 3KW rating, and batteries to deliver that sort of peak power are tricky.

    Yes the issue of current from the battery is a problem, perhaps what is really needed is a kettle with a supercapicator. Although a supercapicator that will store enough energy to boil 1.5 litres of water might be a bit expensive. But then this is a premium kettle for people who really care about making a good cup of tea rapidly.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.

    Bah, it's a Babylon 5 reference, when it was confirmed who Sinclair really was and what happened to Bablyon 4.

    I reckon that two parter was the best episode of B5, ergo that makes it classic.
    OK, I don't really do telly.
  • I was hoping for a Wheel of Time series reference in the last thread title. Brexit will be continually refought over billions of years until the heat death of the universe as the protagonists are perpetually reincarnated.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.

    Bah, it's a Babylon 5 reference, when it was confirmed who Sinclair really was and what happened to Bablyon 4.

    I reckon that two parter was the best episode of B5, ergo that makes it classic.
    OK, I don't really do telly.
    Précis of Babylon 5, a lot like The Lord Of The Rings, but in space.
  • Hodges has taken Uber decision well:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/911187966407700480
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    A conference bounce? A conference that got hardly any mention or coverage?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,995
    TfL's decision is a relatively small one of Uber's many problems.
  • I was hoping for a Wheel of Time series reference in the last thread title. Brexit will be continually refought over billions of years until the heat death of the universe as the protagonists are perpetually reincarnated.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/22/brexit-purgatory-boris-johnson-jacob-rees-mogg

    Have you seen the news lately? A prominent Brexiteer said something outrageously untrue about our relationship with the EU, earning scorn from prominent remainers. The EU expressed concern with the rate of progress of negotiations, but the British government dismissed them. An economics expert reported that we were heading towards financial disaster with Brexit. An opposition politician demanded that we cancel Brexit, while others said we had to respect the will of the people.

    It was quite a week. Almost as amazing as last week, when the exact same thing happened. And the week before that. And the week before that. And, in fact, almost every week since 24 June 2016.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,849
    edited September 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.

    He can redeem himself with the thread describing May's speech fuck up. "The EU is a Harsh Mistress"
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,041
    Bearing in mind the coverage of the LD conference I can't believe the voters of Oadby and Chesterfield had the slightest inkling anything was going on and that there was no conference bounce whatsoever.
  • glw said:

    TfL's decision is a relatively small one of Uber's many problems.

    In a butterfly effect, could Khan precipitate the Enron-style downfall of Uber leading to a generalised second tech bubble collapse, bringing down Twitter with it and saving the world from Donald Trump precipitating nuclear war with a Tweet? ;)
  • Is Wes Streeting channelling Sir Humphrey?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/911191814912212993
  • marke09 said:

    A conference bounce? A conference that got hardly any mention or coverage?

    That's why it went down so well with voters.
  • glw said:

    TfL's decision is a relatively small one of Uber's many problems.

    In a butterfly effect, could Khan precipitate the Enron-style downfall of Uber leading to a generalised second tech bubble collapse, bringing down Twitter with it and saving the world from Donald Trump precipitating nuclear war with a Tweet? ;)
    I did read somewhere that some Americans are going to take Twitter to court for not banning Donald Trump from Twitter.

    Their argument that Trump, inter alia, was in breach of Twitter's harassment/threatening rules and the resultant damage could be a war that kills the people bringing the case.
  • He's probably mixed up Sadiq with Ed Miliband.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,956

    Is Wes Streeting channelling Sir Humphrey?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/911191814912212993

    Khan is, perhaps, channelling Ned Ludd.
  • glw said:

    TfL's decision is a relatively small one of Uber's many problems.

    In a butterfly effect, could Khan precipitate the Enron-style downfall of Uber leading to a generalised second tech bubble collapse, bringing down Twitter with it and saving the world from Donald Trump precipitating nuclear war with a Tweet? ;)
    I did read somewhere that some Americans are going to take Twitter to court for not banning Donald Trump from Twitter.

    Their argument that Trump, inter alia, was in breach of Twitter's harassment/threatening rules and the resultant damage could be a war that kills the people bringing the case.
    This?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-twitter/u-s-free-speech-group-sues-trump-for-blocking-twitter-users-idUSKBN19W1UZ

  • glw said:

    TfL's decision is a relatively small one of Uber's many problems.

    In a butterfly effect, could Khan precipitate the Enron-style downfall of Uber leading to a generalised second tech bubble collapse, bringing down Twitter with it and saving the world from Donald Trump precipitating nuclear war with a Tweet? ;)
    I did read somewhere that some Americans are going to take Twitter to court for not banning Donald Trump from Twitter.

    Their argument that Trump, inter alia, was in breach of Twitter's harassment/threatening rules and the resultant damage could be a war that kills the people bringing the case.
    This?

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-twitter/u-s-free-speech-group-sues-trump-for-blocking-twitter-users-idUSKBN19W1UZ

    Different one I think.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,268
    Nick Palmer's in luck if he fancies another go in Broxtowe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.

    He can redeem himself with the thread describing May's speech fuck up. "The EU is a Harsh Mistress"
    Love it.

    And all the more appropriate given what Heinlein would likely think of the EU. (Although he would have approved of financial passporting and the free movement of labour.)
  • tlg86 said:

    Nick Palmer's in luck if he fancies another go in Broxtowe.
    No return for Ed Balls in Morley though.

    Not sure Broxtowe is open either, in the sense that they selected a local candidate to replace Nick P earlier this year for the June election.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866

    marke09 said:

    A conference bounce? A conference that got hardly any mention or coverage?

    That's why it went down so well with voters.
    The less voters see of LibDems, the more they like them.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,823
    edited September 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    (Although he would have approved of financial passporting and the free movement of labour.)

    On that note, have you seen this? - https://www.ft.com/content/582ca822-9e06-11e7-8cd4-932067fbf946
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Uber loses its licence to operate in London"

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-41358640
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,518
    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist
    Yes, surely the concept of AWS has outlived its usefulness now, especially given the quality (or lack thereof) of some of those elected under the rule.
  • Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Perhaps, but it does result in male candidates being discriminated against.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Any woman can submit themselves as a candidate if they wish
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722
    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.

    He can redeem himself with the thread describing May's speech fuck up. "The EU is a Harsh Mistress"
    Love it.

    And all the more appropriate given what Heinlein would likely think of the EU. (Although he would have approved of financial passporting and the free movement of labour.)
    He was at the peak of his powers when he wrote that book (he went off the rails later, with his advocacy for incest).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,518
    edited September 2017
    AndyJS said:

    "Uber loses its licence to operate in London"

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-41358640

    Yeah, they’re scumbags and shysters who got what was coming to them.

    Are you still in Seattle and looking for places to go? Try the fish market, they have a bunch of mad stall holders there who spend all day throwing fish to each other and making jokes with the customers.
  • Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Perhaps, but it does result in male candidates being discriminated against.
    But it's the *right* kind of discrimination, Sean.
  • Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Perhaps, but it does result in male candidates being discriminated against.
    I think there are 119 female Labour MPs, so 143 male Labour MPs, so there must be a great deal of implicit or explicit sexism that reduces the number of female Labour MPs below the half you would expect by chance.

    In my view this justifies some explicit discrimination to correct the imbalance, although I can think of some better ways to do it (that wouldn't have been subject to the suspicion of manipulation as occurred during the Blair years, when it was often alleged that AWS were used to block popular local male candidates who were not loyal Blairites).
  • glw said:

    TfL's decision is a relatively small one of Uber's many problems.
    Indeed. It really is quite a despicable company, albeit one that offers a useful service.

    My concern with this ruling is that, whatever excuses they use in public, this is about protectionism, and when a better company comes along offering a similar service - whether it's Lyft or a.n.other - they'll just get the same hassle.
  • Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Perhaps, but it does result in male candidates being discriminated against.
    I think there are 119 female Labour MPs, so 143 male Labour MPs, so there must be a great deal of implicit or explicit sexism that reduces the number of female Labour MPs below the half you would expect by chance.

    In my view this justifies some explicit discrimination to correct the imbalance, although I can think of some better ways to do it (that wouldn't have been subject to the suspicion of manipulation as occurred during the Blair years, when it was often alleged that AWS were used to block popular local male candidates who were not loyal Blairites).
    Would you expect half by chance?

    I would be curious to know how many apply. If fewer than half of applications are by females then you'd expect fewer than half to get the position to be so.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,722

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Perhaps, but it does result in male candidates being discriminated against.
    I think there are 119 female Labour MPs, so 143 male Labour MPs, so there must be a great deal of implicit or explicit sexism that reduces the number of female Labour MPs below the half you would expect by chance.

    In my view this justifies some explicit discrimination to correct the imbalance, although I can think of some better ways to do it (that wouldn't have been subject to the suspicion of manipulation as occurred during the Blair years, when it was often alleged that AWS were used to block popular local male candidates who were not loyal Blairites).
    Trying to achieve equal outcomes between groups means treating individuals unjustly.

    By analogy, we know that racial discrimination exists in society, but it would be unjust if White people were barred from seeking certain jobs in order to equalise outcomes.
  • Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Perhaps, but it does result in male candidates being discriminated against.
    I think there are 119 female Labour MPs, so 143 male Labour MPs, so there must be a great deal of implicit or explicit sexism that reduces the number of female Labour MPs below the half you would expect by chance.

    In my view this justifies some explicit discrimination to correct the imbalance, although I can think of some better ways to do it (that wouldn't have been subject to the suspicion of manipulation as occurred during the Blair years, when it was often alleged that AWS were used to block popular local male candidates who were not loyal Blairites).
    Explicit discrimination is never the answer.

    Just as an eye-for-eye isn't justice.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Uber loses its licence to operate in London"

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-41358640

    Yeah, they’re scumbags and shysters who got what was coming to them.

    Are you still in Seattle and looking for places to go? Try the fish market, they have a bunch of mad stall holders there who spend all day throwing fish to each other and making jokes with the customers.
    I'm back on the east coast, but I did visit the market while I was there.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,715

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Perhaps, but it does result in male candidates being discriminated against.
    I think there are 119 female Labour MPs, so 143 male Labour MPs, so there must be a great deal of implicit or explicit sexism that reduces the number of female Labour MPs below the half you would expect by chance.

    In my view this justifies some explicit discrimination to correct the imbalance, although I can think of some better ways to do it (that wouldn't have been subject to the suspicion of manipulation as occurred during the Blair years, when it was often alleged that AWS were used to block popular local male candidates who were not loyal Blairites).
    Cuckoo
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,518

    glw said:

    TfL's decision is a relatively small one of Uber's many problems.
    Indeed. It really is quite a despicable company, albeit one that offers a useful service.

    My concern with this ruling is that, whatever excuses they use in public, this is about protectionism, and when a better company comes along offering a similar service - whether it's Lyft or a.n.other - they'll just get the same hassle.
    Yes, the issues in TfL’s decision seem to be specifically about the governance and engagement of Uber specifically. A non-evil minivab company (Lyft, Addison Lee etc) setting up in London and following the rules should be welcomed. One does get the impression that Mr Khan cares more about the taxi drivers’ union though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,518
    AndyJS said:

    Sandpit said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Uber loses its licence to operate in London"

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-41358640

    Yeah, they’re scumbags and shysters who got what was coming to them.

    Are you still in Seattle and looking for places to go? Try the fish market, they have a bunch of mad stall holders there who spend all day throwing fish to each other and making jokes with the customers.
    I'm back on the east coast, but I did visit the market while I was there.
    Ah ok cool. I remember seeing a corporate training video about the place a few years ago - I think my company was trying to make us all more enthusiastic!
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    edited September 2017

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.

    Bah, it's a Babylon 5 reference, when it was confirmed who Sinclair really was and what happened to Bablyon 4.

    I reckon that two parter was the best episode of B5, ergo that makes it classic.
    OK, I don't really do telly.
    Précis of Babylon 5, a lot like The Lord Of The Rings, but in space.
    As Tim from Spaced would say... 'Babylon 5 is a big pile of sh**!'
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    FPT:

    rkrkrk said:

    Huh?
    Of course it is an example - a private company failed to meet its obligations on the East Coast line and pulled out. A public company stepped in.

    Whilst all train operating companies are subsidised when the cost of infrastructure is added in - the net subsidy for East Coast was lowest at 1% vs. an average of 32% for other companies:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/18/east-coast-rail-line-taxpayer-subsidy/

    Managing the infrastructure is a different job to TOC - chalk and cheese.

    The massive growth in numbers we have seen since privatisation is because of a whole bunch of factors... urbanisation, cost of property, GDP growth etc.

    It's not because the service is now so wonderful.

    AIUI the situation at EC was very different after the takeover than it was before, esp. in regards to payments to the ROSCOs and the work NR had been doing on the line.

    What do you think of all the privatised TOCs who are returning, in total, returned over £800 million to the taxpayer from operations ? Why are they not positive examples?

    Your example of the EC fails to show how renationalisation will in any way improve the network for users, both passenger and freight. It also ignores the experience of Southern, and particularly the Gibb report. Failures in a network are often much more complex than just bland cries about ownership.

    As for your last sentence: the privatised companies are running far more services than BR ever (I think, and certainly post-Beeching) did. Being able to get a train every fifteen minutes rather than waiting an hour is quite wonderful . This is just one of the changes that BR failed to do.
    They are returning money - but they also receive a huge subsidy which is more than what they return. Looking at the net figure is meaningful.

    Initially very little needs to change except instead of French state owned companies we will have British state owned companies. There is no magic rule that says one can run trains every fifteen minutes and the other can't.

    The transaction costs on franchises alone are enormous. Then add on the fact that govt can borrow at much cheaper rates.

    That money could either be saved for the taxpayer or passed on to users in the form of reduced ticket prices. As you say - ownership is not particularly relevant to quality of service. But public ownership will be much cheaper.

    We also will then have a much clearer picture of what the overall rail system costs.
    We can decide at what level we should subsidise.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Perhaps, but it does result in male candidates being discriminated against.
    I think there are 119 female Labour MPs, so 143 male Labour MPs, so there must be a great deal of implicit or explicit sexism that reduces the number of female Labour MPs below the half you would expect by chance.

    In my view this justifies some explicit discrimination to correct the imbalance, although I can think of some better ways to do it (that wouldn't have been subject to the suspicion of manipulation as occurred during the Blair years, when it was often alleged that AWS were used to block popular local male candidates who were not loyal Blairites).
    Nah - 45% is within the range of random chance, voters having a view, etc.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    I was hoping for a Wheel of Time series reference in the last thread title. Brexit will be continually refought over billions of years until the heat death of the universe as the protagonists are perpetually reincarnated.

    If we cannot have Haldeman's "The Forever War" what about another if his titles "All my sins remembered"? That is bound to have resonance at some point ...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2017
    rkrkrk said:

    Initially very little needs to change except instead of French state owned companies we will have British state owned companies. There is no magic rule that says one can run trains every fifteen minutes and the other can't.

    There's a very obvious reason why a British state owned company is likely to be much worse than a foreign-owned one, especially under a Labour government: a British state-owned entity can much more easily be blackmailed by unions or subjected to political pressure. That's how we got in the 1970s mess in the first place.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    glw said:

    I was not aware that US kettles are manufactured at half the power rating. That would explain it.

    Yeah you don't get 3 kW kettles (as God intended) in the US, some of the maniacs even use the microwave
    This raises a conundrum for me. I know there is no God, but I want to say "Thank God for 3kW kettles"

    :D
  • glwglw Posts: 9,995
    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    Yeah the Uber "magic" is hard for me to discern when there are so many similar services. They mainly seem to be good at persuading investors to part with their cash.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Nigelb said:

    Is Wes Streeting channelling Sir Humphrey?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/911191814912212993

    Khan is, perhaps, channelling Ned Ludd.
    Uber is just a mini-cab firm. This is rejecting a license for a mini-cab firm that doesn't meet the licensing conditions.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    Yeah the Uber "magic" is hard for me to discern when there are so many similar services. They mainly seem to be good at persuading investors to part with their cash.
    I'd go as far as to say they are anti-magic. Their business model is anti-economy of scale. By not owning any car infrastructure (cars/garages/maintenance) and distributing all maintenance/running costs onto drivers they are running a minicab firm in the most expensive way possible.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,518

    Sean_F said:

    Charles said:

    It's the Labour Party Sexism Paradox

    If the Labour Party isn't sexist then 50% of the open contests would be won by women

    But that means that 75% of Labour candidates in target seats are women... which would be sexist

    Er, not really. Labour are aware that there are many unconscious and structural barriers to women becoming candidates and MPs and have decided to do something explicit to redress the balance.
    Perhaps, but it does result in male candidates being discriminated against.
    I think there are 119 female Labour MPs, so 143 male Labour MPs, so there must be a great deal of implicit or explicit sexism that reduces the number of female Labour MPs below the half you would expect by chance.

    In my view this justifies some explicit discrimination to correct the imbalance, although I can think of some better ways to do it (that wouldn't have been subject to the suspicion of manipulation as occurred during the Blair years, when it was often alleged that AWS were used to block popular local male candidates who were not loyal Blairites).
    Explicit discrimination is never the answer.

    Just as an eye-for-eye isn't justice.
    Id like to see both main parties make more use of open primaries in “safe” seats, rather than some internal party stitch-up to select the new MP.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    SeanT said:

    He's completely right, of course. Uber is the future, and if it is actually banned, a copycat will simply take over. The future cannot be stopped.

    This absurd decision is akin to banning cars in about 1904, at the behest of saddlers and grooms.
    If a copycat comes that can do what uber does but respects the rules then great. Win win.

    But I suspect we will look back and wonder how we were dumb enough to fall for the hype.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,110

    glw said:

    TfL's decision is a relatively small one of Uber's many problems.
    Indeed. It really is quite a despicable company, albeit one that offers a useful service.

    My concern with this ruling is that, whatever excuses they use in public, this is about protectionism, and when a better company comes along offering a similar service - whether it's Lyft or a.n.other - they'll just get the same hassle.
    Presumably the plane that just landed at LHR is full of Lyft Business Development Managers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,110
    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    Have you done the calcs?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,995
    Alistair said:

    I'd go as far as to say they are anti-magic. Their business model is anti-economy of scale. By not owning any car infrastructure (cars/garages/maintenance) and distributing all maintenance/running costs onto drivers they are running a minicab firm in the most expensive way possible.

    Yeah they appear to have a bonkers last-man-standing plan where when everyone else has gone bust, and shareholder capital has been destroyed, only Uber will remain. Then all they need to do is get another vast round of investment to pay for an enormous fleet of self-driving cars.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Things I learnt today: TSE is not a classic sci fi buff. The correct title for the last thread is The Forever War.

    He can redeem himself with the thread describing May's speech fuck up. "The EU is a Harsh Mistress"
    Love it.

    And all the more appropriate given what Heinlein would likely think of the EU. (Although he would have approved of financial passporting and the free movement of labour.)
    He was at the peak of his powers when he wrote that book (he went off the rails later, with his advocacy for incest).
    Heinlein always seemed a bit obsessive about sex, so maybe move to Asimov's "The Winds of Change" or The Gods Themselves" (full quote - Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain)?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406

    rkrkrk said:

    Initially very little needs to change except instead of French state owned companies we will have British state owned companies. There is no magic rule that says one can run trains every fifteen minutes and the other can't.

    There's a very obvious reason why a British state owned company is likely to be much worse than a foreign-owned one, especially under a Labour government: a British state-owned entity can much more easily be blackmailed by unions or subjected to political pressure. That's how we got in the 1970s mess in the first place.
    The world has changed and the unions are much much weaker now.
    The NHS for instance has seen some very impressive cost control on staff wages.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    rkrkrk said:

    SeanT said:

    He's completely right, of course. Uber is the future, and if it is actually banned, a copycat will simply take over. The future cannot be stopped.

    This absurd decision is akin to banning cars in about 1904, at the behest of saddlers and grooms.
    If a copycat comes that can do what uber does but respects the rules then great. Win win.

    But I suspect we will look back and wonder how we were dumb enough to fall for the hype.
    Those using or working in the gig economy do need protection. All Uber needs to do is follow the rules set for all other companies. Simples.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    SeanT said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    Even if Uber was the same price as a black cab (which I very much doubt) I would STILL prefer Uber. Because Ubers are infinitely easier to use, more plentiful, less hassle, the app is superb, no cash changes hands, the drivers are polite - they load your luggage, they play the music you want - they just beat black cabs hands down - and that's APART from price.

    I predict that this will be a massively unpopular decision. And, as I say below, even if Uber lose their appeal, someone else will just copy the model and replace them.
    5 years after Facebook as founded it had 25% profit margin.
    5 years after Uber was founded it had -149% Profit margin, for every pound of revenue it takes it loses £1.49.

    It has to more than double it's take from Taxi fares to become profitable.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,110
    @SeanT's return - reminds me of The Handmaid's Tale:

    the Commander shows her the copy of Vogue.

    "Why did you show me?"
    "Who else could I show it to?"

    Welcome back, however briefly.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,406
    TOPPING said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    Have you done the calcs?
    I don't think the data is publicly available to really know - but this article reckoned passengers were paying 41% of the cost of their journey...

    https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2016/12/01/2180647/the-taxi-unicorns-new-clothes/
  • Alistair said:

    SeanT said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    Even if Uber was the same price as a black cab (which I very much doubt) I would STILL prefer Uber. Because Ubers are infinitely easier to use, more plentiful, less hassle, the app is superb, no cash changes hands, the drivers are polite - they load your luggage, they play the music you want - they just beat black cabs hands down - and that's APART from price.

    I predict that this will be a massively unpopular decision. And, as I say below, even if Uber lose their appeal, someone else will just copy the model and replace them.
    5 years after Facebook as founded it had 25% profit margin.
    5 years after Uber was founded it had -149% Profit margin, for every pound of revenue it takes it loses £1.49.

    It has to more than double it's take from Taxi fares to become profitable.
    What's the comparison with Amazon?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2017
    rkrkrk said:

    The world has changed and the unions are much much weaker now.
    The NHS for instance has seen some very impressive cost control on staff wages.

    You are right, the union monsters have largely been slain, Maggie be praised (although I'm not sure I'd choose the NHS as the best example of that..). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the monsters can't rise again, as Corbyn and McDonnell would clearly like.
  • rkrkrk said:


    They are returning money - but they also receive a huge subsidy which is more than what they return. Looking at the net figure is meaningful.

    Initially very little needs to change except instead of French state owned companies we will have British state owned companies. There is no magic rule that says one can run trains every fifteen minutes and the other can't.

    The transaction costs on franchises alone are enormous. Then add on the fact that govt can borrow at much cheaper rates.

    That money could either be saved for the taxpayer or passed on to users in the form of reduced ticket prices. As you say - ownership is not particularly relevant to quality of service. But public ownership will be much cheaper.

    We also will then have a much clearer picture of what the overall rail system costs.
    We can decide at what level we should subsidise.

    Yes, the subsidy goes mainly to NR, and AIUI comprises three major parts: maintenance (keeping the current infrastructure going), renewals (replacing life-expired infrastructure) and enhancements (everything from electrification to Crossrail). Vast amounts are being spent on enhancements atm, and this will have to be spent in a nationalised industry if you want the same future performance.

    "But public ownership will be much cheaper."

    Only if we don't have any enhancements; and that's far from certain anyway.

    Let's take an example. The rail system currently has a clearing body that attributes delays and applies fines to whoever caused the delay - whether it's a TOC or Network Rail. If a train breaks down, the train operator pays for the delays caused to other operators. If a points failure causes it, then NR pays for the delays.

    Some see this process as being utterly wasteful. After all, if the system was nationalised it would not be needed as BR would just be paying itself.

    That might be wrong-headed. After all, BR did a similar process, although less rigorously. However, and this is important, they had little reason to correct causes for delays. If a track defect was causing delays, it might just be left. In the current situation, those delays hurt the company's pocket, so you invest to fix them.

    All AIUI. :)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    SeanT said:

    Alistair said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Wes Streeting channelling Sir Humphrey?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/911191814912212993

    Khan is, perhaps, channelling Ned Ludd.
    Uber is just a mini-cab firm. This is rejecting a license for a mini-cab firm that doesn't meet the licensing conditions.
    You've clearly never taken a minicab and/or an Uber in London. There is no comparison.

    I can open my Uber app, decide where to go, press a button - and a car is usually outside my door within 1-2 minutes, ready to take me.

    Yes, but it only gets the capacity to have a cab outside your door by massively subsidising taxi rides. Without that massive subsidy there wouldn't be the same number of Uber drivers around and you'd have to wait longer and pay more. To the extent where you might pull out one of the other cab apps instead.

    There is no Uber secret tech sauce - just a massive flow of investor money.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,397
    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    Once they get a critical mass of drivers and customers in a location, Uber will drastically hike driver commissions if they haven't done so already. Drivers are a commodity. As long as they get rides quickly and reliably customers don't care. They will go for the most ubiquitous system. It's not even very price sensitive.

    Drivers will HATE Uber. I don't mean that as a figure of speech. Unless drivers loathe Uber with every fibre of their being the Uber business model is not performing at peak.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,518
    SeanT said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    Even if Uber was the same price as a black cab (which I very much doubt) I would STILL prefer Uber. Because Ubers are infinitely easier to use, more plentiful, less hassle, the app is superb, no cash changes hands, the drivers are polite - they load your luggage, they play the music you want - they just beat black cabs hands down - and that's APART from price.

    I predict that this will be a massively unpopular decision. And, as I say below, even if Uber lose their appeal, someone else will just copy the model and replace them.
    The problem isn’t the concept, it’s this particular company and it’s attidude towards TfL with regard to things like CRB checks for drivers and investigation of reported crimes.

    There are very good reasons that minicabs are regulated, but this company thinks that laws designed to stop people getting robbed, raped or even murdered don’t apply to them.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,110
    Alistair said:

    SeanT said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    Even if Uber was the same price as a black cab (which I very much doubt) I would STILL prefer Uber. Because Ubers are infinitely easier to use, more plentiful, less hassle, the app is superb, no cash changes hands, the drivers are polite - they load your luggage, they play the music you want - they just beat black cabs hands down - and that's APART from price.

    I predict that this will be a massively unpopular decision. And, as I say below, even if Uber lose their appeal, someone else will just copy the model and replace them.
    5 years after Facebook as founded it had 25% profit margin.
    5 years after Uber was founded it had -149% Profit margin, for every pound of revenue it takes it loses £1.49.

    It has to more than double it's take from Taxi fares to become profitable.
    The analogy is with Ocado.

    Lost money for ages, no future, how crazy what happens when the Waitrose contract ends, etc...

    And yet, what people were missing was that it was accumulating customers on the one hand and a logistics infrastructure on the other. So it could easily turn its hand to...Morrisons, or whoever.

    Uber has the infrastructure in place. It's just a question of what they want to push down it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    SeanT said:

    Alistair said:

    SeanT said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    Even if Uber was the same price as a black cab (which I very much doubt) I would STILL prefer Uber. Because Ubers are infinitely easier to use, more plentiful, less hassle, the app is superb, no cash changes hands, the drivers are polite - they load your luggage, they play the music you want - they just beat black cabs hands down - and that's APART from price.

    I predict that this will be a massively unpopular decision. And, as I say below, even if Uber lose their appeal, someone else will just copy the model and replace them.
    5 years after Facebook as founded it had 25% profit margin.
    5 years after Uber was founded it had -149% Profit margin, for every pound of revenue it takes it loses £1.49.

    It has to more than double it's take from Taxi fares to become profitable.
    Famously, Amazon didn't make a profit for decades.

    Amazon is now the world's fourth largest company.
    Amazon wasn't losing massive amounts o money compared to their revenue. And the reason they were losing money was always clear - they were investing a huge capital intensive projects, distribution centres, warehousing, logistical networks.

    They always had a route to profitability - at any time they could have stopped losing money and started being revenue positive. Eventually there was going to be an end to their massive capital expenditure (once they finally had enough distribution locations - you can't build warehouses forever) and/or to raise their prices very slightly.

    Uber has to more than double their take. That's a monstrous uplift.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It looks like May can't get no satisfaction:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/911201657270231040
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    No.

    Uber is loss making because it spends many billions of dollars a year on marketing. It spends Billions on marketing to grow its user numbers.

    Its core business has almost no costs, which is why they pay drivers 85% of gross rather than the sub 50% that Addison Lee pays.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    No.

    Uber is loss making because it spends many billions of dollars a year on marketing. It spends Billions on marketing to grow its user numbers.

    Its core business has almost no costs, which is why they pay drivers 85% of gross rather than the sub 50% that Addison Lee pays.
    So if they become ubiquitous they can just cut marketing?

    Doesn't sound like the disaster that Alistair is claiming.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    SeanT said:

    Alistair said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Wes Streeting channelling Sir Humphrey?

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/911191814912212993

    Khan is, perhaps, channelling Ned Ludd.
    Uber is just a mini-cab firm. This is rejecting a license for a mini-cab firm that doesn't meet the licensing conditions.
    You've clearly never taken a minicab and/or an Uber in London. There is no comparison.

    I can open my Uber app, decide where to go, press a button - and a car is usually outside my door within 1-2 minutes, ready to take me.

    And because you rate drivers, and because drivers with poor ratings are kicked from Uber, you get clean cars, with polite drivers.

  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Yorkcity said:
    It is a fair statement of the position.

    "TfL has said it believes Uber’s conduct demonstrates a lack of corporate responsibility around a number of issues that have potential public safety and security implications. ... All private-hire operators in London need to play by the rules. The safety and security of customers must be paramount."
  • FPT

    Yellowsubmarine claimed Cameron got a complete opt out from Ever Closer Union. This is simply not true. Ever Closer Union has been an integral part of every treaty underpinning the EEC/EC/EU since the original Treaty of Rome. The only way it could have been overturned would be through a new treaty - something that there was absolutely no guarantee would happen for many years. Until and unless a new treaty was agreed the UK would still have been subject to the existing treaties with their absolute commitment to Ever Closer Union.

    Even had a new treaty been proposed at some point in the future there was no guarantee the exemptions would have been agreed by all other member states.

    And even had we eventually got a new treaty there is no guarantee it would have been interpreted as we wished by the ECJ - something John Major found out to his cost.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    No.

    Uber is loss making because it spends many billions of dollars a year on marketing. It spends Billions on marketing to grow its user numbers.

    Its core business has almost no costs, which is why they pay drivers 85% of gross rather than the sub 50% that Addison Lee pays.
    So if they become ubiquitous they can just cut marketing?

    Doesn't sound like the disaster that Alistair is claiming.
    If Uber is spending all their money on marketing, then they really need to look at spending their money more wisely, as their PR is atrocious. Or perhaps you can't polish a corporate turd. ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    I suspect, by the way, that Uber has no worse a record regarding drivers with criminal records, or drivers assaulting women, than regular mini cab firms.

    It's just that it is 50x bigger than the largest private hire business, and therefore it is easier to find examples of bad things.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Taxi licensing does have a strange connection to the header. This is why the Oadby Uplands by election happened:

    http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/taxi-driver-accused-sitting-outside-218270

  • rcs1000 said:

    I suspect, by the way, that Uber has no worse a record regarding drivers with criminal records, or drivers assaulting women, than regular mini cab firms.

    It's just that it is 50x bigger than the largest private hire business, and therefore it is easier to find examples of bad things.

    Yes, it's not as though minicab firms are exactly famed for their scrupulous adherence to regulations and best practice.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,518
    SeanT said:

    Here's the petition to save Uber.

    I predict this will hit 100,000

    https://www.change.org/p/save-your-uber-in-london

    And the people who will be most annoyed will be women, especially young women. They LOVE Uber. It's cheap and makes them feel safe - much safer than normal cabs.

    Sadiq Khan could lose squillions of voters here. Good.

    This young lady disagrees:
    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/911174965982097408

    And these are the reasons for the decision:
    https://twitter.com/ThomasWPenny/status/911199823289872385
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited September 2017
    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    Yeah the Uber "magic" is hard for me to discern when there are so many similar services. They mainly seem to be good at persuading investors to part with their cash.
    They have a useful booking app, but are otherwise a minicab firm.

    I particularly like the fact I can use the same app in multiple locations and countries as it means I don't have to faff around
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,866
    FF43 said:

    Alistair said:

    With Uber the reason it is cheaper than black cabs and minicabs is because they massively subsidize the price of a ride. They are 15 billion in the hole because they run a minicab firm where they don't charge enough to make a profit. there is no magic technology secret sauce that is making Uber's cheaper than regular cabs, just a nver ending stream of investor cash.

    If they raised their prices to probability they would be more expensive than a regular min-cab firm due to their massive overheads.

    Once they get a critical mass of drivers and customers in a location, Uber will drastically hike driver commissions if they haven't done so already. Drivers are a commodity. As long as they get rides quickly and reliably customers don't care. They will go for the most ubiquitous system. It's not even very price sensitive.

    Drivers will HATE Uber. I don't mean that as a figure of speech. Unless drivers loathe Uber with every fibre of their being the Uber business model is not performing at peak.
    Is that true?

    Given low barriers to entry, and the fact that drivers can be on two services simultaneously, why would they want to do that.

    Much better to take a 15% commission from every taxi journey in the world. For providing an app and a few servers.
This discussion has been closed.