If Corbyn gets in, it will be because the vast majority of my fellow millennials decided to support him for PM when they thought he had a credible chance of winning. Anyone who does that proves they are the entitled, irresponsible idiots the Mail claims. A once great nation would be truly throwing in the towel.
LOL. First off, if Corbyn gets in it'll be because of those 40+ switching over to vote for him, not Millennials.
Millennials are generally defined as the generation born after 1981 - the oldest of this generation would be 36. Labour has already won under 35s quite handsomely this time round. It's the more older generations of the working age population where they need to make ground.
And no, voting Corbyn doesn't prove they are 'entitled, irresponsible idiots'. Rather it's much more indicative how badly the Conservative party as alienated this generation.
Spot on Apocalypse!
Come on Zeitgeist, admit it, you're Katie Hopkins really.
Because a millennial poster couldn't possibly diverge from the lefty groupthink, could he?
Remember, every time you see a fresh-faced youth in the street, there's a 1-in-4 chance that they're really quite right wing. We're everywhere...
Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.
One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.
Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.
As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.
And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.
The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.
What young people really, really want is less freedom. They hate that.
SNP 41% (+4) Conservatives 27% (-2) Labour 24% (-3) Liberal Democrats 6% (-1) Green 2% (+2)
seat projection from poll now Baxtered
SNP 45 (+10) tory 11 (-2) Lab 1 (-6) Lib 2 (-2)
So let us be clear. After three months of self congratulatory back slapping from this site and most of its posters about the imminent demise of the NATS the first real poll since the election shows them up 10 seats, with Salmond back in Gordon, and almost certainly holding the balance of power at Westminster in an early poll.
The Referendum was lost by Cameron and Osborne and the arrogant Tory toffs. There was no reasoned debate on either side. More Tory toffs on the Leave side also to blame.
So, to be clear, arrogant Tory toffs are responsible both for winning and losing?
To be fair, stripping out your ugly prejudices, you do have a point: only Cameron and Osborne really engaged in campaigning for Remain. Labour were deliberately AWOL, and the LibDems were invisible. You should direct your anger at those who didn't step up to the plate, not those who did.
The SNP spent more on a by-election than they did on EURef.......
SNP 41% (+4) Conservatives 27% (-2) Labour 24% (-3) Liberal Democrats 6% (-1) Green 2% (+2)
seat projection from poll now Baxtered
SNP 45 (+10) tory 11 (-2) Lab 1 (-6) Lib 2 (-2)
So let us be clear. After three months of self congratulatory back slapping from this site and most of its posters about the imminent demise of the NATS the first real poll since the election shows them up 10 seats, with Salmond back in Gordon, and almost certainly holding the balance of power at Westminster in an early poll.
Ho Ho Ho
Pre-election polls in June 2017 overstated SNP support - as did polls for the Local Elections on May 4th - and indeed for the Holyrood Elections in May 2016.
How does the Tory central office explain the Panelbase poll. Perhaps the Sunday Times is distorting it in favour of the SNP?
I'm happy for you that a poll with MOE (Or close to) changes has provided so much encouragement......after the more than MOE Holyrood poll from Survation a few days ago
.....And why DID the SNP spend more in a single constituency fighting a by-election than they did in the whole country fighting EURef?
.....And why DID the SNP spend more in a single constituency fighting a by-election than they did in the whole country fighting EURef?
The Scottish electorate delivered the strongest Remain vote anywhere in the UK. Perhaps they are not attracted to the message of British nationalism that the Leave campaign were pushing at great expense.
Asking prices for homes in London have recorded their biggest annual fall so far this decade and have dropped on average by £18,000 in the space of just a month, the property site Rightmove said on Monday.
The Survation poll had the SNP 16 points ahead of the Carlotta Tories.
The polls in 2011underestimated the SNP as, by in large, did the 2015 polls. In any case pollsters have now rebased on the 2017 election.
Point is that just about every poster on this site and including Mike himself have pedalled the assumption of NAT decline and seat loss.
This poll and Survation for that matter suggests exactly the opposite.
So on the third anniversary of the referendum the latest poll on independence (Survation) shows support above 2014 and the only poll on Westminster ratings indicates the gain of 10 seats to a massive 45 including Salmond in Gordon.
Those are astonishing numbers for independence. Might be worth a few quid.
Edit to add: I would be staggered if Independence got more than 60%.
These are figures based on those who have said they will actually vote. Given that the referendum has been declared illegal, all the anti-independence parties have said they will not take part in the campaign and around 40% of Catalans have said they will not go to the polls, it is absolutely certain that the result will be a huge win for the separatists. The vote should be well over 60% in favour, but that will equate to well under half of the electorate. I am astonished that the figures in the poll are not a lot higher for independence.
.....And why DID the SNP spend more in a single constituency fighting a by-election than they did in the whole country fighting EURef?
The Scottish electorate delivered the strongest Remain vote anywhere in the UK. Perhaps they are not attracted to the message of British nationalism that the Leave campaign were pushing at great expense.
More like they're just not very good at voting for independence from supranational oppressors...
.....And why DID the SNP spend more in a single constituency fighting a by-election than they did in the whole country fighting EURef?
The Scottish electorate delivered the strongest Remain vote anywhere in the UK. Perhaps they are not attracted to the message of British nationalism that the Leave campaign were pushing at great expense.
It was English nationalism. This is a very fine essay on it:
.....And why DID the SNP spend more in a single constituency fighting a by-election than they did in the whole country fighting EURef?
The Scottish electorate delivered the strongest Remain vote anywhere in the UK. Perhaps they are not attracted to the message of British nationalism that the Leave campaign were pushing at great expense.
It was English nationalism. This is a very fine essay on it:
.....And why DID the SNP spend more in a single constituency fighting a by-election than they did in the whole country fighting EURef?
The Scottish electorate delivered the strongest Remain vote anywhere in the UK. Perhaps they are not attracted to the message of British nationalism that the Leave campaign were pushing at great expense.
It was English nationalism. This is a very fine essay on it:
Home prices doubled because Labour let in a million odd from the third world and there wasn't room to house them without concreting over the country. We could see from the footage of London's tower blocks that our social housing is full to the brim of Nigerians, Syrians, Somalis me Romanians. There was barely an English accent there.
The problem with that argument is that house prices went up much more between 1994 and 2007 (when there was relatively little immigration) than between 2007 and 2017.
It's almost like these are complex problems, with multiple contributory factors.
Those are astonishing numbers for independence. Might be worth a few quid.
Edit to add: I would be staggered if Independence got more than 60%.
These are figures based on those who have said they will actually vote. Given that the referendum has been declared illegal, all the anti-independence parties have said they will not take part in the campaign and around 40% of Catalans have said they will not go to the polls, it is absolutely certain that the result will be a huge win for the separatists. The vote should be well over 60% in favour, but that will equate to well under half of the electorate. I am astonished that the figures in the poll are not a lot higher for independence.
There was - of course - a prior "illegal" referendum in 2014, which saw a massive win for the separatists with them chalking up 80% of the vote.
This time feels different, because the Catalan nationalists have said that they will have a Unilateral Declaration of Independence if the vote passes.
It's hard to think of anything that would be more destabilizing to a modern state than a UDI, because Catalonia lacks most of the infrastructure required.
So what happens? 2014 was a damp squib.
When I spent a lot of time in Spain (in my previous life as a fund manager), I was told of the plan to kick the can down the road. The Spanish government would say "This referendum *is* illegal, but work with us, and we can do it properly." So there would be a Constitutional Convention that would sit for a couple of years, and then propose a new constitution that would then be ratified (or not) by a Spanish-wide referendum in (say) 2021. This would contain provisions that would allow Catalonia (if they wanted to), to have a referendum in about 2025.
.....And why DID the SNP spend more in a single constituency fighting a by-election than they did in the whole country fighting EURef?
The Scottish electorate delivered the strongest Remain vote anywhere in the UK. Perhaps they are not attracted to the message of British nationalism that the Leave campaign were pushing at great expense.
It was English nationalism. This is a very fine essay on it:
Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.
One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.
It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.
Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.
In regard to this forum, aside from your good self, I don't know about that (am happy to be corrected though). You're the main Leaver I've seen (rightfully) taking Osborne to task on his policies.
Alanbrooke and DavidL are on a similar line to me I would say.
Mortimer and MaxPB are both advocates of changing the housing situation.
Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.
One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.
It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.
Any evidence for that assertion Richard?
I notice that you deleted the second half of my comment.
I was differentiating between the attitudes of the Conservative Leavers and the Osborne fans.
As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.
And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.
The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.
You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish
If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.
A very select group, I imagine.
I believe we have, or had, someone of this parish who has a home in Hungary. Again formerly a doddle. There are many young people who would have wished the chance to broaden their horizons but no the Little Englanders have denied them that.
Really ?
Lets take a look at our fellow PBers and where they are located.
RobD and the two Tims are in the USA, Edmund is in Tokyo, Sandpit in Dubai, Indigo in the Philippines, Felix has retired to Spain and MaxPB has recently moved to Switzerland.
For a group of people who are likely to educated, affluent and world-connected they show a revealing lack of desire to move to the EU.
Still perhaps you know some young people who are waitressing in Transylvania or picking potatoes in Silesia but I must say I don't.
Comments
Remember, every time you see a fresh-faced youth in the street, there's a 1-in-4 chance that they're really quite right wing. We're everywhere...
Edit to add: I would be staggered if Independence got more than 60%.
http://wapo.st/2x5QqEv
If there is though I'd expect an Independence landslide. The Spanish central government is not exactly trying to win hearts and minds right now.
SNP 41% (+4)
Conservatives 27% (-2)
Labour 24% (-3)
Liberal Democrats 6% (-1)
Green 2% (+2)
seat projection from poll now Baxtered
SNP 45 (+10)
tory 11 (-2)
Lab 1 (-6)
Lib 2 (-2)
So let us be clear. After three months of self congratulatory back slapping from this site and most of its posters about the imminent demise of the NATS the first real poll since the election shows them up 10 seats, with Salmond back in Gordon, and almost certainly holding the balance of power at Westminster in an early poll.
Ho Ho Ho
How does the Tory central office explain the Panelbase poll. Perhaps the Sunday Times is distorting it in favour of the SNP?
.....And why DID the SNP spend more in a single constituency fighting a by-election than they did in the whole country fighting EURef?
http://wapo.st/2y8Jq7i
Asking prices for homes in London have recorded their biggest annual fall so far this decade and have dropped on average by £18,000 in the space of just a month, the property site Rightmove said on Monday.
The Survation poll had the SNP 16 points ahead of the Carlotta Tories.
The polls in 2011underestimated the SNP as, by in large, did the 2015 polls. In any case pollsters have now rebased on the 2017 election.
Point is that just about every poster on this site and including Mike himself have pedalled the assumption of NAT decline and seat loss.
This poll and Survation for that matter suggests exactly the opposite.
So on the third anniversary of the referendum the latest poll on independence (Survation) shows support above 2014 and the only poll on Westminster ratings indicates the gain of 10 seats to a massive 45 including Salmond in Gordon.
"You have not seen the last of my bonnets and me"
Mind you, raising less money from supporters (the Weirs excepted) than the BNP must be constraining.....
http://wapo.st/2xYdwte
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/09/28/brexits-irish-question/
England 53.3% Leave
It's almost like these are complex problems, with multiple contributory factors.
But hey, fuck nuance.
This time feels different, because the Catalan nationalists have said that they will have a Unilateral Declaration of Independence if the vote passes.
It's hard to think of anything that would be more destabilizing to a modern state than a UDI, because Catalonia lacks most of the infrastructure required.
So what happens? 2014 was a damp squib.
When I spent a lot of time in Spain (in my previous life as a fund manager), I was told of the plan to kick the can down the road. The Spanish government would say "This referendum *is* illegal, but work with us, and we can do it properly." So there would be a Constitutional Convention that would sit for a couple of years, and then propose a new constitution that would then be ratified (or not) by a Spanish-wide referendum in (say) 2021. This would contain provisions that would allow Catalonia (if they wanted to), to have a referendum in about 2025.
That route always seemed the most sensible to me.
Mortimer and MaxPB are both advocates of changing the housing situation.
I was differentiating between the attitudes of the Conservative Leavers and the Osborne fans.
Lets take a look at our fellow PBers and where they are located.
RobD and the two Tims are in the USA, Edmund is in Tokyo, Sandpit in Dubai, Indigo in the Philippines, Felix has retired to Spain and MaxPB has recently moved to Switzerland.
For a group of people who are likely to educated, affluent and world-connected they show a revealing lack of desire to move to the EU.
Still perhaps you know some young people who are waitressing in Transylvania or picking potatoes in Silesia but I must say I don't.