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FrancisUrquhart

An 18-year-old, believed to be an Iraqi refugee, was arrested in the Port of Dover after being tracked to its departures hall, but it emerged he had slipped through the police's fingers after being arrested at Parsons Green a fortnight before the blast.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4893172/Is-Parsons-Green-suspect-way-attack.html

Why am I not going to be shocked if we find out that he is actually significantly older than 18, after claiming to be 15 when he arrived?

The_Apocalypse

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Toms

I'll waste everybody's time by saying that I shan't make a guess about May's applause because I would feel I'd have to watch it, stopwatch in hand. And too, I find her speechifying so predictable and bland that I probably wouldn't be able to stay awake.
Nice artwork

YellowSubmarine

Trump said " Lock her up ! " but Osborne said " Chop her up ! "

dixiedean

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

Sean_F

Lee Bum Suk.

Sunil_Prasannan

Kim Pee Bee

Big_G_NorthWales

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

Sean_F

Kim Jong Un is a complete bo-ji.

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

Lee Bum Suk.

He's been in power Wai Tu Luong.

dixiedean

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

Was not a remark aimed at you or anyone else in your Party. Merely agreeing with Ms Apocalypse that articles like that one don't help.
I am sure you perform your paternal duties admirably and work hard for your community.

Mortimer

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

And yet some people are happy to negatively judge the Conservative party based on some articles in the mail.

Irony is indeed alive and kicking.

A large minority of young people, myself included, vote for and campaign for the Tory party because politics is not determined by newspapers.

TwistedFireStopper

Disturbing happenings at my nearest Fire Station.

https://twitter.com/bbcemt/status/909510379335798784

blueblue

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

I'm a millennial (early 30s) and the thing that reaffirms my Toryness each and every day is my rebellion against the batshit crazy ideology to which so much of my generation subscribes... Love love love Bill Maher on the topic

There's a lot of us, but we keep quiet in mixed company!

Big_G_NorthWales

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

Was not a remark aimed at you or anyone else in your Party. Merely agreeing with Ms Apocalypse that articles like that one don't help.
I am sure you perform your paternal duties admirably and work hard for your community.

I am afraid 'tempus fugit' so I am not as active in the community as I was at one time.

However, my time when I was involved with local organisations provided many happy days and some sad ones too

I well remember meeting a group of 40 or so children from Manchester children's homes at Colwyn Bay beach and see them looking in awe, running wildly down to the sea and plunging in fully clothed. They had never seen the sea or a beach and they were completely mesmerised by the experience. Bless them

Big_G_NorthWales

TwistedFireStopper said:

Disturbing happenings at my nearest Fire Station.

https://twitter.com/bbcemt/status/909510379335798784

Hope it is ok

another_richard

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.

williamglenn

"Boris Johnson and Theresa May in Brexit showdown: Foreign Secretary to tell PM £30bn 'divorce' bill is not acceptable"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/17/boris-johnson-theresa-may-brexit-showdown-10bn-payments-eu/

another_richard

Worth reading:

' A few days ago, a 16-year-old boy from Harlow in Essex was sentenced to three-and-a-half years in a young offenders’ institution for the manslaughter of Arek Jozwik, a Polish man who had been living and working in Britain. The sentencing didn’t generate much media interest. There were no thinkpieces. Not much tweeting. Just some perfunctory news reports. Which is strange, because in August last year, when the boy, then 15, landed the fatal blow on Mr Jozwik, the media couldn’t get enough of this terrible incident. The commentary was ceaseless. The killing trended. But they’ve forgotten it now. And the reason they’ve forgotten it, the reason Mr Jozwik’s name has been all but erased from commentary circles, is pretty awful.

It’s because Mr Jozwik’s tragic fate is no longer politically useful to them. '

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/a-killing-in-harlow-the-shame-of-remainers/20327#.Wb7hXmf2bcc

Also in the Sunday Times.

Big_G_NorthWales

williamglenn said:

"Boris Johnson and Theresa May in Brexit showdown: Foreign Secretary to tell PM £30bn 'divorce' bill is not acceptable"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/17/boris-johnson-theresa-may-brexit-showdown-10bn-payments-eu/

Telegraph's agenda working here.

Big_G_NorthWales

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:

"Boris Johnson and Theresa May in Brexit showdown: Foreign Secretary to tell PM £30bn 'divorce' bill is not acceptable"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/17/boris-johnson-theresa-may-brexit-showdown-10bn-payments-eu/

Telegraph's agenda working here.

They are going to the UN together this week

Ishmael_Z

williamglenn said:

"Boris Johnson and Theresa May in Brexit showdown: Foreign Secretary to tell PM £30bn 'divorce' bill is not acceptable"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/17/boris-johnson-theresa-may-brexit-showdown-10bn-payments-eu/

Not prepared to pay to read the Telegraph, but I note you can read for free "Could your child be a psychopath? Six signs to watch out for". What an appalling rag it has become.

Sunil_Prasannan

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

And yet some people are happy to negatively judge the Conservative party based on some articles in the mail.

Irony is indeed alive and kicking.

A large minority of young people, myself included, vote for and campaign for the Tory party because politics is not determined by newspapers.

It's just The Apocalypse in Snowflake mode

Big_G_NorthWales

It seems to be a paradox the more the media, and particular Sky, attempt to critise Boris, the more publicity they are giving him and his message will go down well with many

Chris_A

Big_G_NorthWales said:

It seems to be a paradox the more the media, and particular Sky, attempt to critise Boris, the more publicity they are giving him and his message will go down well with many

I'm quite happy to point out that Johnson has been dismissed from 2 previous jobs for untruths to his superiors.

The_Apocalypse

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

And yet some people are happy to negatively judge the Conservative party based on some articles in the mail.

Irony is indeed alive and kicking.

A large minority of young people, myself included, vote for and campaign for the Tory party because politics is not determined by newspapers.

A large minority of young people, really? The Conservatives are polling as low as 14% among 18 - 24 year olds. Recent research has shown that 18-25 year olds account for only 6% of the Conservative Party membership, and that the age of average Tory member is as old as 72. Given that, I doubt that a 'large minority' of young people are involved with the Conservative Party.

The Mail article was included in the post as an example.

Although there was this bit of research in study on the Conservative Party Membership/voters:

And as for young people not respecting traditional British values, the Conservative Party’s membership seem to take a pretty dim view: eight out of ten Tories think that’s the case (77% vs. 78% of Tory voters). The same high proportion of Conservative grassroots members think schools should be teaching kids to obey authority (84% vs. 81% of Tory voters).

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-monica-poletti/eu-referendum-conservative-voters_b_17924942.html

I actually wouldn't entirely with your point that politics isn't determined by newspapers. As a source of news and worldview, I'd say it's not unreasonable to suggest that newspapers can shape people's politics to some extent.

Chris_A

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

Benpointer

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Any evidence for that assertion Richard?

williamglenn

I've just seen some clips of May's ABC interview. She's becoming seriously stilted and almost developing a stutter.

Big_G_NorthWales

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

Big_G_NorthWales

williamglenn said:

I've just seen some clips of May's ABC interview. She's becoming seriously stilted and almost developing a stutter.

I would agree with that and indeed it is one of the reasons she will not lead in the next GE

Chris_A

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.

Sean_F

The_Apocalypse said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

And yet some people are happy to negatively judge the Conservative party based on some articles in the mail.

Irony is indeed alive and kicking.

A large minority of young people, myself included, vote for and campaign for the Tory party because politics is not determined by newspapers.

A large minority of young people, really? The Conservatives are polling as low as 14% among 18 - 24 year olds. Recent research has shown that 18-25 year olds account for only 6% of the Conservative Party membership, and that the age of average Tory member is as old as 72. Given that, I doubt that a 'large minority' of young people are involved with the Conservative Party.

The Mail article was included in the post as an example.

Although there was this bit of research in study on the Conservative Party Membership/voters:

And as for young people not respecting traditional British values, the Conservative Party’s membership seem to take a pretty dim view: eight out of ten Tories think that’s the case (77% vs. 78% of Tory voters). The same high proportion of Conservative grassroots members think schools should be teaching kids to obey authority (84% vs. 81% of Tory voters).

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-monica-poletti/eu-referendum-conservative-voters_b_17924942.html

I actually wouldn't entirely with your point that politics isn't determined by newspapers. As a source of news and worldview, I'd say it's not unreasonable to suggest that newspapers can shape people's politics to some extent.

Ipsos Mori found 27% of 18-24 year olds voting Conservative in June, way behind Labour, but still a significant minority.

GIN1138

YellowSubmarine said:

Trump said " Lock her up ! " but Osborne said " Chop her up ! "

nielh

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

I've worked with a lot of conservative councillors (not that representative of conservative voters as a whole then) and they are pretty much a mixed bag. I don't think that it is any more true that they dislike young people any more than the labour party councillors, or for that matter the liberal democrat councillors. The real divide is between the older, retired people who are actively involved in politics and everyone else. Its like people involved in politics speak a totally different language to everyone else, they are on a totally different planet or something.

What is interesting to me is that Corbyn has somehow managed to cross this line. It does feel like the usual conservative tactic of scaring people in to voting for them won't work any more, because with Brexit they are now the party of chaos and disorder. I sometimes wonder whether the tories have any future at all.

The_Apocalypse

a

blueblue said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

I'm a millennial (early 30s) and the thing that reaffirms my Toryness each and every day is my rebellion against the batshit crazy ideology to which so much of my generation subscribes... Love love love Bill Maher on the topic

There's a lot of us, but we keep quiet in mixed company!

Judging by the last election there's not a lot you, given how Labour won big with millennials.

'Bat shit crazy ideology' - this may be why the Conservative Party struggles so much when it comes to younger voters if you're anyway representative of young Conservatives. The Conservative Party desperately need young people within its ranks who can reach out and understand the concerns of under 40s more generally. It looks like you don't perhaps get why so many of this demographic don't want vote Conservative. It's not because of a 'bat shit crazy ideology' - it's because of concerns surrounding housing, inter-generational unfairness, costs of living, inequality, social mobility, and a desire for more investment in health, education as well as anxieties about student debt. The Conservative Party as given little reason for most young people to vote for them, having placed much of burden/impact of austerity on those of working age.

Looking on Twitter, with the exception of Kirsten Soltis Anderson, it seems many young/millennial Conservative commentators love to 'hate' their generation, and then wonder why so many young people aren't giving Conservative ideas a hearing.

Benpointer

blueblue said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

I'm a millennial (early 30s) and the thing that reaffirms my Toryness each and every day is my rebellion against the batshit crazy ideology to which so much of my generation subscribes... Love love love Bill Maher on the topic

There's a lot of us, but we keep quiet in mixed company!

There's a sizeable minority of you, but it is a minority of your age group... 29% of voters in their 30s voted Tory versus 55% who voted Labour in GE2017, according to YouGov.

Big_G_NorthWales

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.

So you have have prior knowledge of the divorce settlement or you are putting your own interpretation on events. Sounds like you expect the EU to ban all UK citizens from their countries

How do you think we managed before we were in the EU

Mortimer

Sean_F said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.


Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

And yet some people are happy to negatively judge the Conservative party based on some articles in the mail.

Irony is indeed alive and kicking.

A large minority of young people, myself included, vote for and campaign for the Tory party because politics is not determined by newspapers.

A large minority of young people, really? The Conservatives are polling as low as 14% among 18 - 24 year olds. Recent research has shown that 18-25 year olds account for only 6% of the Conservative Party membership, and that the age of average Tory member is as old as 72. Given that, I doubt that a 'large minority' of young people are involved with the Conservative Party.

The Mail article was included in the post as an example.

Although there was this bit of research in study on the Conservative Party Membership/voters:

And as for young people not respecting traditional British values, the Conservative Party’s membership seem to take a pretty dim view: eight out of ten Tories think that’s the case (77% vs. 78% of Tory voters). The same high proportion of Conservative grassroots members think schools should be teaching kids to obey authority (84% vs. 81% of Tory voters).

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-monica-poletti/eu-referendum-conservative-voters_b_17924942.html

I actually wouldn't entirely with your point that politics isn't determined by newspapers. As a source of news and worldview, I'd say it's not unreasonable to suggest that newspapers can shape people's politics to some extent.

Ipsos Mori found 27% of 18-24 year olds voting Conservative in June, way behind Labour, but still a significant minority.

The issue of course is not the numbers, which we'll never truly know - but the hypocrisy of criticising a group based on individuals for, yes you guessed it, criticising a group based on individuals.

Sean_F

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.

A very select group, I imagine.

Chris_A

Sean_F said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.

A very select group, I imagine.

I believe we have, or had, someone of this parish who has a home in Hungary. Again formerly a doddle. There are many young people who would have wished the chance to broaden their horizons but no the Little Englanders have denied them that.

The_Apocalypse

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.

In regard to this forum, aside from your good self, I don't know about that (am happy to be corrected though). You're the main Leaver I've seen (rightfully) taking Osborne to task on his policies.

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/909527560505225216

Mortimer

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.

In regard to this forum, aside from your good self, I don't know about that (am happy to be corrected though). You're the main Leaver I've seen (rightfully) taking Osborne to task on his policies.

I think we've almost all criticsd the editior of a local free sheet...

Sean_F

Chris_A said:

Sean_F said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.

A very select group, I imagine.

I believe we have, or had, someone of this parish who has a home in Hungary. Again formerly a doddle. There are many young people who would have wished the chance to broaden their horizons but no the Little Englanders have denied them that.

Do we shoot them, if they attempt to leave the UK?

Big_G_NorthWales

I believe we have, or had, someone of this parish who has a home in Hungary. Again formerly a doddle. There are many young people who would have wished the chance to broaden their horizons but no the Little Englanders have denied them that.


I am not a Little Englander and nor are the many thousands of Welsh and Scots who voted to leave. The use of the word 'Little Englander' says more about your prejeudice than anything else

Benpointer

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/909527560505225216

Not like Gove to ditch his pal Boris, is it?

Oh, hang-on...

GIN1138

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/909527560505225216

I'm not sure anybody can trust a word Michael Gove says to be honest...

Yorkcity

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.

In regard to this forum, aside from your good self, I don't know about that (am happy to be corrected though). You're the main Leaver I've seen (rightfully) taking Osborne to task on his policies.

Osborne took the good bits out of Universal Credit.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/17/universal-credit-a-train-wreck-that-must-be-stopped-lib-dems-say

The_Apocalypse

Sean_F said:

Ipsos Mori found 27% of 18-24 year olds voting Conservative in June, way behind Labour, but still a significant minority.

I think YouGov showed it at 19% for the June GE and Lord Ashcroft had nearly the same type of figure (18%) for a similar type of poll as well, but I'd wouldn't even taking MORI's figure, I wouldn't call 27% a 'large minority'.

nielh

Chris_A said:

Sean_F said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.

A very select group, I imagine.

I believe we have, or had, someone of this parish who has a home in Hungary. Again formerly a doddle. There are many young people who would have wished the chance to broaden their horizons but no the Little Englanders have denied them that.

As someone who has benefitted from the four freedoms, I agree with you and share your frustration, but the fact is that for most people , moving to Europe isn't a big issue. They haven't thought about it, and think that if they wanted to do it, it would be easy enough to do anyway even if we have left the EU. That might be slightly delusional and proven wrong by events, but it is what most people think. A clear majority of people prioritise getting control over our own borders over being able to live and work within the EU.

Sunil_Prasannan

Chris_A said:

Sean_F said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As aur PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.

A very select group, I imagine.

I believe we have, or had, someone of this parish who has a home in Hungary. Again formerly a doddle. There are many young people who would have wished the chance to broaden their horizons but no the Little Englanders have denied them that.

Wales voted LEAVE, and NI's largest party are also pro-Brexit.

blueblue

The_Apocalypse said:

a

blueblue said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Judging by the last election there's not a lot you, given how Labour won big with millennials.

'Bat shit crazy ideology' - this may be why the Conservative Party struggles so much when it comes to younger voters if you're anyway representative of young Conservatives. The Conservative Party desperately need young people within its ranks who can reach out and understand the concerns of under 40s more generally. It looks like you don't perhaps get why so many of this demographic don't want vote Conservative. It's not because of a 'bat shit crazy ideology' - it's because of concerns surrounding housing, inter-generational unfairness, costs of living, inequality, social mobility, and a desire for more investment in health, education as well as anxieties about student debt. The Conservative Party as given little reason for most young people to vote for them, having placed much of burden/impact of austerity on those of working age.

Looking on Twitter, with the exception of Kirsten Soltis Anderson, it seems many young/millennial Conservative commentators love to 'hate' their generation, and then wonder why so many young people aren't giving Conservative ideas a hearing.

"concerns surrounding housing, inter-generational unfairness, costs of living, inequality, social mobility, and a desire for more investment in health, education as well as anxieties about student debt"

That part sounds reasonable, and if all a Labour victory meant was somewhat higher taxes, I wouldn't be quite so concerned - as a matter of fact, the Tories should have made big spending commitments in those areas at the GE, even if it meant raising overall taxation a little or postponing deficit reduction.

But what I'm afraid a Labour victory will mean are confiscatory levels of taxation, capital flight followed by economic chaos, and an entrenchment of far left ideology to an extent that will make this country an oppressive and dangerous place in which to live.

Big_G_NorthWales

nielh said:

Chris_A said:

Sean_F said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.

A very select group, I imagine.

I believe we have, or had, someone of this parish who has a home in Hungary. Again formerly a doddle. There are many young people who would have wished the chance to broaden their horizons but no the Little Englanders have denied them that.

As someone who has benefitted from the four freedoms, I agree with you and share your frustration, but the fact is that for most people , moving to Europe isn't a big issue. They haven't thought about it, and think that if they wanted to do it, it would be easy enough to do anyway even if we have left the EU. That might be slightly delusional and proven wrong by events, but it is what most people think. A clear majority of people prioritise getting control over our own borders over being able to live and work within the EU.

Good post

Sunil_Prasannan

The_Apocalypse said:

Sean_F said:

Ipsos Mori found 27% of 18-24 year olds voting Conservative in June, way behind Labour, but still a significant minority.

I think YouGov showed it at 19% for the June GE and Lord Ashcroft had nearly the same type of figure (18%) for a similar type of poll as well, but I'd wouldn't even taking MORI's figure, I wouldn't call 27% a 'large minority'.

You're not going to be an 18-24 year old for ever, you know!

Ishmael_Z

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

The referendum was lost by Remain, not won by Leave. Did you do anything to secure a Remain win, other than cast your own vote? If not, you can redirect all your eyerolling and tooth sucking from the Leavers to yourself.

Zeitgeist

Odd to see the talking heads going on and on about a reasonable newspaper column. Anything to divert attention from them being proven completely wrong about refugees. We are very lucky no one died from the handwringing of Yvette Cooper and her ilk.

The_Apocalypse

nielh said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

I've worked with a lot of conservative councillors (not that representative of conservative voters as a whole then) and they are pretty much a mixed bag. I don't think that it is any more true that they dislike young people any more than the labour party councillors, or for that matter the liberal democrat councillors. The real divide is between the older, retired people who are actively involved in politics and everyone else. Its like people involved in politics speak a totally different language to everyone else, they are on a totally different planet or something.

What is interesting to me is that Corbyn has somehow managed to cross this line. It does feel like the usual conservative tactic of scaring people in to voting for them won't work any more, because with Brexit they are now the party of chaos and disorder. I sometimes wonder whether the tories have any future at all.

Great post, although I think the Tories do have a future. At some point they'll realise (like they did in 2005) that they'll have to adapt and modernise as all political parties do when they're not in their best moments. Social media isn't going anywhere and is likely play just as greater part (if not a bigger part) in the next GE. As such the Conservatives are going need to attract younger people who understand how social media works and how to use it in order to promote their message. Some commentators are already saying that the Conservatives need to make the positive case for Conservatism instead of just relying on the Corbyn-is-a-disaster message.

Sean_F

According to Lucid Talk, an election for the Northern Ireland Assembly would give 36% DUP to 31% Sinn Fein, with everyone else under 10%.

Chris_A

Ishmael_Z said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

The referendum was lost by Remain, not won by Leave. Did you do anything to secure a Remain win, other than cast your own vote? If not, you can redirect all your eyerolling and tooth sucking from the Leavers to yourself.

Yes.

PClipp

Ishmael_Z said:

Chris_A said:

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

The referendum was lost by Remain, not won by Leave. Did you do anything to secure a Remain win, other than cast your own vote? If not, you can redirect all your eyerolling and tooth sucking from the Leavers to yourself.

The Referendum was lost by Cameron and Osborne and the arrogant Tory toffs. There was no reasoned debate on either side. More Tory toffs on the Leave side also to blame.

Good to see that the Lib Dems have resolved to call for a First Referendum once the terms and conditions are known.

The country has had quite enough of the bluff and bluster, smokescreens and mirrors, which is the way the Conservative Party operates nowadays. The country deserves better.

Ishmael_Z

Chris_A said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

The referendum was lost by Remain, not won by Leave. Did you do anything to secure a Remain win, other than cast your own vote? If not, you can redirect all your eyerolling and tooth sucking from the Leavers to yourself.

Yes.

Well, you should have done more, obviously. This is all your fault.

nielh

The_Apocalypse said:

nielh said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

I've worked with a lot of conservative councillors (not that representative of conservative voters as a whole then) and they are pretty much a mixed bag. I don't think that it is any more true that they dislike young people any more than the labour party councillors, or for that matter the liberal democrat councillors. The real divide is between the older, retired people who are actively involved in politics and everyone else. Its like people involved in politics speak a totally different language to everyone else, they are on a totally different planet or something.

What is interesting to me is that Corbyn has somehow managed to cross this line. It does feel like the usual conservative tactic of scaring people in to voting for them won't work any more, because with Brexit they are now the party of chaos and disorder. I sometimes wonder whether the tories have any future at all.

Great post, although I think the Tories do have a future. At some point they'll realise (like they did in 2005) that they'll have to adapt and modernise as all political parties do when they're not in their best moments. Social media isn't going anywhere and is likely play just as greater part (if not a bigger part) in the next GE. As such the Conservatives are going need to attract younger people who understand how social media works and how to use it in order to promote their message. Some commentators are already saying that the Conservatives need to make the positive case for Conservatism instead of just relying on the Corbyn-is-a-disaster message.

We'll have to see, but I think if it was up to the members to decide the next leader I am convinced they would have gone for Andrea Leadsom.

The_Apocalypse

@blueblue I have my own concerns with Corbyn (and ESPECIALLY McDonnell) in regard to the points you make. But it's important to note that that was not what they actually put in the manifesto which people voted on (my view is that the manifesto is some way from their actual views). I think someone like McDonnell would like to go that far, ulimately the PLP is nowhere near that 'out there' and thus it wouldn't happen - Corbyn and McDonnell would need votes to get their budgets through, after all. We've already seen Corbyn - a guy who isn't exactly Pro-EU - concede some ground on the party's Brexit policy. I was pretty shocked by that, and it shows that there may be some room for negotiation within Corbyn's Labour party, at least among those who haven't plotted against him (which as far as I'm aware Keir Starmer hasn't done that).

Richard_Nabavi

nielh said:

We'll have to see, but I think if it was up to the members to decide the next leader I am convinced they would have gone for Andrea Leadsom.

I'm afraid it's worse than that.

We would have gone for Theresa May.

The_Apocalypse

Yorkcity said:

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.

In regard to this forum, aside from your good self, I don't know about that (am happy to be corrected though). You're the main Leaver I've seen (rightfully) taking Osborne to task on his policies.

Osborne took the good bits out of Universal Credit.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/17/universal-credit-a-train-wreck-that-must-be-stopped-lib-dems-say

Osborne has really had some cheek in these weeks after the GE. While May didn't exactly help, a lot of the Conservatives longer-term issues with under 40s are really down to the actions of the 'master strategist' while he was Chancellor, presumably because he thought that turnout among younger voters couldn't possibly increase.

Zeitgeist

The_Apocalypse said:

nielh said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

I've worked with a lot of conservative councillors (not that representative of conservative voters as a whole then) and they are pretty much a mixed bag. I don't think that it is any more true that they dislike young people any more than the labour party councillors, or for that matter the liberal democrat councillors. The real divide is between the older, retired people who are actively involved in politics and everyone else. Its like people involved in politics speak a totally different language to everyone else, they are on a totally different planet or something.

What is interesting to me is that Corbyn has somehow managed to cross this line. It does feel like the usual conservative tactic of scaring people in to voting for them won't work any more, because with Brexit they are now the party of chaos and disorder. I sometimes wonder whether the tories have any future at all.

Great post, although I think the Tories do have a future. At some point they'll realise (like they did in 2005) that they'll have to adapt and modernise as all political parties do when they're not in their best moments. Social media isn't going anywhere and is likely play just as greater part (if not a bigger part) in the next GE. As such the Conservatives are going need to attract younger people who understand how social media works and how to use it in order to promote their message. Some commentators are already saying that the Conservatives need to make the positive case for Conservatism instead of just relying on the Corbyn-is-a-disaster message.

If Twitter is the future of British politics, God help us all.

williamglenn

Richard_Nabavi said:

nielh said:

We'll have to see, but I think if it was up to the members to decide the next leader I am convinced they would have gone for Andrea Leadsom.

I'm afraid it's worse than that.

We would have gone for Theresa May.

I'm convinced Leadsom would have won too. Remember she had Boris in her camp, and a vicious Leave.EU inspired campaign against May was just getting started.

The_Apocalypse

nielh said:

We'll have to see, but I think if it was up to the members to decide the next leader I am convinced they would have gone for Andrea Leadsom.

I think so too. I also think there'a a decent chance they'd go for JRM as well.

It should be said though, that Conservative Members did elect David Cameron, when they saw that the IDS' and the Michael Howards' of the world weren't going to win them a majority.

Richard_Nabavi

williamglenn said:

I'm convinced Leadsom would have won too. Remember she had Boris in her camp, and a vicious Leave.EU inspired campaign against May was just getting started.

She wouldn't. Believe me.

nielh

Richard_Nabavi said:

nielh said:

We'll have to see, but I think if it was up to the members to decide the next leader I am convinced they would have gone for Andrea Leadsom.

I'm afraid it's worse than that.

We would have gone for Theresa May.

Really? I thought the logic was that her poor campaigning skills would have been exposed by the leadership election, which could only lead to one outcome.

blueblue

The_Apocalypse said:

@blueblue I have my own concerns with Corbyn (and ESPECIALLY McDonnell) in regard to the points you make. But it's important to note that that was not what they actually put in the manifesto which people voted on (my view is that the manifesto is some way from their actual views). I think someone like McDonnell would like to go that far, ulimately the PLP is nowhere near that 'out there' and thus it wouldn't happen - Corbyn and McDonnell would need votes to get their budgets through, after all. We've already seen Corbyn - a guy who isn't exactly Pro-EU - concede some ground on the party's Brexit policy. I was pretty shocked by that, and it shows that there may be some room for negotiation within Corbyn's Labour party, at least among those who haven't plotted against him (which as far as I'm aware Keir Starmer hasn't done that).

The fact that Corbyn & McDonnell (agreed the latter is more dangerous) can be somewhat reined in by the PLP is the only thing keeping me from total despair. But the GE gave them so much political capital that there's virtually nothing stopping them from tightening their grip on every aspect of the Labour Party, and if they win a majority next time, which looks like a 50%+ chance at this point, their legion of new MPs will fall in line with whatever they want to do...

The_Apocalypse

Zeitgeist said:

If Twitter is the future of British politics, God help us all.

I'd say it's where British politics is already at. So many politicians, journalists, activists, party members etc and others involved in politics use Twitter to communicate their message.

MP_SE2

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Chris_A said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

Indeed. A good talking to from an aging "etiquette expert" is just what is needed to sort them out? Particularly one who doesn't seem to have met a person under 35 for many years.

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

The young have been well and truly done over by the Leavers and their possible futures probably irreparably damaged by confining them to this island with all the Little Englanders.

You are really going over the top and down the other side. Utter rubbish

If your grandchildren has fancied a year in Romania learning the language and supporting themselves as a waiter while gaining experience in life, or a whole number of similar scenarios it would have been a piece of cake last year. Not so now.

Very few British people would actually want to do that. To back up my point, there are about 60 British migrants working in Romania according to ONS estimates...

brendan16

Richard_Nabavi said:

williamglenn said:

I'm convinced Leadsom would have won too. Remember she had Boris in her camp, and a vicious Leave.EU inspired campaign against May was just getting started.

She wouldn't. Believe me.

We all saw how useless May was at campaigning in this years General election.

Who can say that the same flaws may not have emerged in a long summer campaign against Leadsom. Leadsom would at least have been genuine and authentic and as with Corbyn maybe people would have warmed to that - and she did believe in Brexit like most party members.

You wonder how different UK politics might have been had Leadsom won - and where might we be now?

Benpointer

Zeitgeist said:

The_Apocalypse said:

nielh said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

I've worked with a lot of conservative councillors (not that representative of conservative voters as a whole then) and they are pretty much a mixed bag. I don't think that it is any more true that they dislike young people any more than the labour party councillors, or for that matter the liberal democrat councillors. The real divide is between the older, retired people who are actively involved in politics and everyone else. Its like people involved in politics speak a totally different language to everyone else, they are on a totally different planet or something.

What is interesting to me is that Corbyn has somehow managed to cross this line. It does feel like the usual conservative tactic of scaring people in to voting for them won't work any more, because with Brexit they are now the party of chaos and disorder. I sometimes wonder whether the tories have any future at all.

Great post, although I think the Tories do have a future. At some point they'll realise (like they did in 2005) that they'll have to adapt and modernise as all political parties do when they're not in their best moments. Social media isn't going anywhere and is likely play just as greater part (if not a bigger part) in the next GE. As such the Conservatives are going need to attract younger people who understand how social media works and how to use it in order to promote their message. Some commentators are already saying that the Conservatives need to make the positive case for Conservatism instead of just relying on the Corbyn-is-a-disaster message.

If Twitter is the future of British politics, God help us all.

It's the spirit of our time Zeitgeist

Richard_Nabavi

nielh said:

Really? I thought the logic was that her poor campaigning skills would have been exposed by the leadership election, which could only lead to one outcome.

She didn't need to campaign. She was seen as the only grown-up left standing, and above all as a safe pair of hands - exactly the characteristics which, it was universally agreed, would have given her a huge majority in the general election. And indeed they would have given her a huge majority, if she hadn't suddenly turned herself into a one-woman constitutional and political wrecking-ball.

Now, I suppose it is possible that she would have been exposed by the leadership election, but I doubt it very much - she'd have been preaching to the converted, and her opponent didn't have the CV, or indeed the talent. It would have been an easy ride.

The_Apocalypse

blueblue said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@blueblue I have my own concerns with Corbyn (and ESPECIALLY McDonnell) in regard to the points you make. But it's important to note that that was not what they actually put in the manifesto which people voted on (my view is that the manifesto is some way from their actual views). I think someone like McDonnell would like to go that far, ulimately the PLP is nowhere near that 'out there' and thus it wouldn't happen - Corbyn and McDonnell would need votes to get their budgets through, after all. We've already seen Corbyn - a guy who isn't exactly Pro-EU - concede some ground on the party's Brexit policy. I was pretty shocked by that, and it shows that there may be some room for negotiation within Corbyn's Labour party, at least among those who haven't plotted against him (which as far as I'm aware Keir Starmer hasn't done that).

The fact that Corbyn & McDonnell (agreed the latter is more dangerous) can be somewhat reined in by the PLP is the only thing keeping me from total despair. But the GE gave them so much political capital that there's virtually nothing stopping them from tightening their grip on every aspect of the Labour Party, and if they win a majority next time, which looks like a 50%+ chance at this point, their legion of new MPs will fall in line with whatever they want to do...

Well, they haven't really managed to get their way on Brexit, and that's one of the most, if not the most important issue facing the country right now. I also don't know about a new legion of MPs doing whatever they'll want them to do. Even some of Corbyn's most loyal allies don't agree with him on everything. Diane Abbott (IIRC) is far more of a Europhile than him for example.

Still, although I think Corbyn will get in next time, I think it will be either as the largest party in a hung parliament or a small majority. I certainly don't see any party in the foreseeable future getting significant majorities.

Zeitgeist

The_Apocalypse said:

Zeitgeist said:

If Twitter is the future of British politics, God help us all.

I'd say it's where British politics is already at. So many politicians, journalists, activists, party members etc and others involved in politics use Twitter to communicate their message.

140 characters is the perfect medium for leftist identity drivel. Enough to push some inane banalities about all cultures being equal yet not enough to have to face substantive argument. No wonder the metro elite love it so much.

Sunil_Prasannan

The_Apocalypse said:

Zeitgeist said:

If Twitter is the future of British politics, God help us all.

I'd say it's where British politics is already at. So many politicians, journalists, activists, party members etc and others involved in politics use Twitter to communicate their message.

"Too many tweets make a twat!" - DC

Benpointer

blueblue said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@blueblue I have my own concerns with Corbyn (and ESPECIALLY McDonnell) in regard to the points you make. But it's important to note that that was not what they actually put in the manifesto which people voted on (my view is that the manifesto is some way from their actual views). I think someone like McDonnell would like to go that far, ulimately the PLP is nowhere near that 'out there' and thus it wouldn't happen - Corbyn and McDonnell would need votes to get their budgets through, after all. We've already seen Corbyn - a guy who isn't exactly Pro-EU - concede some ground on the party's Brexit policy. I was pretty shocked by that, and it shows that there may be some room for negotiation within Corbyn's Labour party, at least among those who haven't plotted against him (which as far as I'm aware Keir Starmer hasn't done that).

The fact that Corbyn & McDonnell (agreed the latter is more dangerous) can be somewhat reined in by the PLP is the only thing keeping me from total despair. But the GE gave them so much political capital that there's virtually nothing stopping them from tightening their grip on every aspect of the Labour Party, and if they win a majority next time, which looks like a 50%+ chance at this point, their legion of new MPs will fall in line with whatever they want to do...

It's not just the PLP which acted as a moderating force, the manifesto had to be signed off by the Clause V meeting. I suspect there were some elements (e.g. Trident) that Corbyn and McDonnell really didn't like but they had to accept them.

Contrast that with the Tory manifesto which seems to have been written by a couple of SPADs. (Still, to be fair to the Tories, they did rather spring the election on themselves haha!)

The_Apocalypse

Zeitgeist said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Zeitgeist said:

If Twitter is the future of British politics, God help us all.

I'd say it's where British politics is already at. So many politicians, journalists, activists, party members etc and others involved in politics use Twitter to communicate their message.

140 characters is the perfect medium for leftist identity drivel. Enough to push some inane banalities about all cultures being equal yet not enough to have to face substantive argument. No wonder the metro elite love it so much.

Lots of Conservative journalists and politicians are on Twitter as well.

nielh

The_Apocalypse said:

nielh said:

We'll have to see, but I think if it was up to the members to decide the next leader I am convinced they would have gone for Andrea Leadsom.

I think so too. I also think there'a a decent chance they'd go for JRM as well.

It should be said though, that Conservative Members did elect David Cameron, when they saw that the IDS' and the Michael Howards' of the world weren't going to win them a majority.

May was carried by this idea that she would be a steady hand on the tiller, and to her credit she managed to fool everyone for about 9 months before things started to go wrong. I think she would have been exposed by a leadership campaign.

In my mind, after seeing what has happened to Labour, I wonder if the members of political parties are really best placed to make these kinds of decisions on a one member one vote basis. Anyone can sign up and join a political party, and most of the people who join the parties don't do any actual work for them. Its just another direct debit that they never get around to cancelling.

The_Apocalypse

Sunil_Prasannan said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Zeitgeist said:

If Twitter is the future of British politics, God help us all.

I'd say it's where British politics is already at. So many politicians, journalists, activists, party members etc and others involved in politics use Twitter to communicate their message.

"Too many tweets make a twat!" - DC

Well, that's one of the things Cameron's said that I agree with. Too many people putting their foot in their mouth with some of these tweets.

brendan16

The_Apocalypse said:

Yorkcity said:

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.

In regard to this forum, aside from your good self, I don't know about that (am happy to be corrected though). You're the main Leaver I've seen (rightfully) taking Osborne to task on his policies.

Osborne took the good bits out of Universal Credit.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/17/universal-credit-a-train-wreck-that-must-be-stopped-lib-dems-say

Osborne has really had some cheek in these weeks after the GE. While May didn't exactly help, a lot of the Conservatives longer-term issues with under 40s are really down to the actions of the 'master strategist' while he was Chancellor, presumably because he thought that turnout among younger voters couldn't possibly increase.

Totally agree.

Osborne's policies on help to buy, FLS, QE and more effectively priced out millions of young people from buying a home for ever. House prices doubling from £50k to £100k in the early 2000s is quite another matter to doubling from £250 to £500k as has occurred in London and much of the south east since 2011.

He also saddled a generation with massive tuition fee debts at huge interest rates.

Why would you back a party that has essentially destroyed your hopes and dreams? And yes Osborne with his policies did that! Unless the Tories address housing long term they are finished.

Zeitgeist

The_Apocalypse said:

blueblue said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@blueblue I have my own concerns with Corbyn (and ESPECIALLY McDonnell) in regard to the points you make. But it's important to note that that was not what they actually put in the manifesto which people voted on (my view is that the manifesto is some way from their actual views). I think someone like McDonnell would like to go that far, ulimately the PLP is nowhere near that 'out there' and thus it wouldn't happen - Corbyn and McDonnell would need votes to get their budgets through, after all. We've already seen Corbyn - a guy who isn't exactly Pro-EU - concede some ground on the party's Brexit policy. I was pretty shocked by that, and it shows that there may be some room for negotiation within Corbyn's Labour party, at least among those who haven't plotted against him (which as far as I'm aware Keir Starmer hasn't done that).

The fact that Corbyn & McDonnell (agreed the latter is more dangerous) can be somewhat reined in by the PLP is the only thing keeping me from total despair. But the GE gave them so much political capital that there's virtually nothing stopping them from tightening their grip on every aspect of the Labour Party, and if they win a majority next time, which looks like a 50%+ chance at this point, their legion of new MPs will fall in line with whatever they want to do...

Well, they haven't really managed to get their way on Brexit, and that's one of the most, if not the most important issue facing the country right now. I also don't know about a new legion of MPs doing whatever they'll want them to do. Even some of Corbyn's most loyal allies don't agree with him on everything. Diane Abbott (IIRC) is far more of a Europhile than him for example.

Still, although I think Corbyn will get in next time, I think it will be either as the largest party in a hung parliament or a small majority. I certainly don't see any party in the foreseeable future getting significant majorities.

If Corbyn gets in, it will be because the vast majority of my fellow millennials decided to support him for PM when they thought he had a credible chance of winning. Anyone who does that proves they are the entitled, irresponsible idiots the Mail claims. A once great nation would be truly throwing in the towel.

Richard_Nabavi

PClipp said:

The Referendum was lost by Cameron and Osborne and the arrogant Tory toffs. There was no reasoned debate on either side. More Tory toffs on the Leave side also to blame.

So, to be clear, arrogant Tory toffs are responsible both for winning and losing?

To be fair, stripping out your ugly prejudices, you do have a point: only Cameron and Osborne really engaged in campaigning for Remain. Labour were deliberately AWOL, and the LibDems were invisible. You should direct your anger at those who didn't step up to the plate, not those who did.

Zeitgeist

brendan16 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Yorkcity said:

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative er negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.

In regard to this forum, aside from your good self, I don't know about that (am happy to be corrected though). You're the main Leaver I've seen (rightfully) taking Osborne to task on his policies.

Osborne took the good bits out of Universal Credit.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/17/universal-credit-a-train-wreck-that-must-be-stopped-lib-dems-say

Osborne has really had some cheek in these weeks after the GE. While May didn't exactly help, a lot of the Conservatives longer-term issues with under 40s are really down to the actions of the 'master strategist' while he was Chancellor, presumably because he thought that turnout among younger voters couldn't possibly increase.

Totally agree.

Osborne's policies on help to buy, FLS, QE and more effectively priced out millions of young people from buying a home for ever. House prices doubling from £50k to £100k in the early 2000s is quite another matter to doubling from £250 to £500k as has occurred in London and much of the south east since 2011.

He also saddled a generation with massive tuition fee debts at huge interest rates.

Why would you back a party that has essentially destroyed your hopes and dreams? And yes Osborne with his policies did that! Unless the Tories address housing long term they are finished.

Home prices doubled because Labour let in a million odd from the third world and there wasn't room to house them without concreting over the country. We could see from the footage of London's tower blocks that our social housing is full to the brim of Nigerians, Syrians, Somalis me Romanians. There was barely an English accent there.

NickPalmer

Zeitgeist said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Zeitgeist said:

If Twitter is the future of British politics, God help us all.

I'd say it's where British politics is already at. So many politicians, journalists, activists, party members etc and others involved in politics use Twitter to communicate their message.

140 characters is the perfect medium for leftist identity drivel. Enough to push some inane banalities about all cultures being equal yet not enough to have to face substantive argument. No wonder the metro elite love it so much.

Odd post. You feel that all tweets are written by leftists, and that they expound on cultural identity?

Possibly you need to get out more.

Benpointer

Zeitgeist said:

The_Apocalypse said:

blueblue said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@blueblue I have my own concerns with Corbyn (and ESPECIALLY McDonnell) in regard to the points you make. But it's important to note that that was not what they actually put in the manifesto which people voted on (my view is that the manifesto is some way from their actual views). I think someone like McDonnell would like to go that far, ulimately the PLP is nowhere near that 'out there' and thus it wouldn't happen - Corbyn and McDonnell would need votes to get their budgets through, after all. We've already seen Corbyn - a guy who isn't exactly Pro-EU - concede some ground on the party's Brexit policy. I was pretty shocked by that, and it shows that there may be some room for negotiation within Corbyn's Labour party, at least among those who haven't plotted against him (which as far as I'm aware Keir Starmer hasn't done that).

The fact that Corbyn & McDonnell (agreed the latter is more dangerous) can be somewhat reined in by the PLP is the only thing keeping me from total despair. But the GE gave them so much political capital that there's virtually nothing stopping them from tightening their grip on every aspect of the Labour Party, and if they win a majority next time, which looks like a 50%+ chance at this point, their legion of new MPs will fall in line with whatever they want to do...

Well, they haven't really managed to get their way on Brexit, and that's one of the most, if not the most important issue facing the country right now. I also don't know about a new legion of MPs doing whatever they'll want them to do. Even some of Corbyn's most loyal allies don't agree with him on everything. Diane Abbott (IIRC) is far more of a Europhile than him for example.

Still, although I think Corbyn will get in next time, I think it will be either as the largest party in a hung parliament or a small majority. I certainly don't see any party in the foreseeable future getting significant majorities.

If Corbyn gets in, it will be because the vast majority of my fellow millennials decided to support him for PM when they thought he had a credible chance of winning. Anyone who does that proves they are the entitled, irresponsible idiots the Mail claims. A once great nation would be truly throwing in the towel.

The millennials largely supported him last time; if Labour win next time it will be because more of the over-30s have switched from the Tories.

Yorkcity

The_Apocalypse said:

Yorkcity said:

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.

In regard to this forum, aside from your good self, I don't know about that (am happy to be corrected though). You're the main Leaver I've seen (rightfully) taking Osborne to task on his policies.

Osborne took the good bits out of Universal Credit.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/17/universal-credit-a-train-wreck-that-must-be-stopped-lib-dems-say

Osborne has really had some cheek in these weeks after the GE. While May didn't exactly help, a lot of the Conservatives longer-term issues with under 40s are really down to the actions of the 'master strategist' while he was Chancellor, presumably because he thought that turnout among younger voters couldn't possibly increase.

Totally agree.The rise in student tuition fees and the postponing of cuts in child tax credits and child disability elements , to greater cuts further down the line , in the roll out to Universal credits is a strategy that might cause problems for his successor.

blueblue

Zeitgeist said:

The_Apocalypse said:

blueblue said:

The_Apocalypse said:

@blueblue I have my own concerns with Corbyn (and ESPECIALLY McDonnell) in regard to the points you make. But it's important to note that that was not what they actually put in the manifesto which people voted on (my view is that the manifesto is some way from their actual views). I think someone like McDonnell would like to go that far, ulimately the PLP is nowhere near that 'out there' and thus it wouldn't happen - Corbyn and McDonnell would need votes to get their budgets through, after all. We've already seen Corbyn - a guy who isn't exactly Pro-EU - concede some ground on the party's Brexit policy. I was pretty shocked by that, and it shows that there may be some room for negotiation within Corbyn's Labour party, at least among those who haven't plotted against him (which as far as I'm aware Keir Starmer hasn't done that).

The fact that Corbyn & McDonnell (agreed the latter is more dangerous) can be somewhat reined in by the PLP is the only thing keeping me from total despair. But the GE gave them so much political capital that there's virtually nothing stopping them from tightening their grip on every aspect of the Labour Party, and if they win a majority next time, which looks like a 50%+ chance at this point, their legion of new MPs will fall in line with whatever they want to do...

Well, they haven't really managed to get their way on Brexit, and that's one of the most, if not the most important issue facing the country right now. I also don't know about a new legion of MPs doing whatever they'll want them to do. Even some of Corbyn's most loyal allies don't agree with him on everything. Diane Abbott (IIRC) is far more of a Europhile than him for example.

Still, although I think Corbyn will get in next time, I think it will be either as the largest party in a hung parliament or a small majority. I certainly don't see any party in the foreseeable future getting significant majorities.

If Corbyn gets in, it will be because the vast majority of my fellow millennials decided to support him for PM when they thought he had a credible chance of winning. Anyone who does that proves they are the entitled, irresponsible idiots the Mail claims. A once great nation would be truly throwing in the towel.

Harsh ... but ultimately fair.

The_Apocalypse

nielh said:

The_Apocalypse said:

nielh said:

We'll have to see, but I think if it was up to the members to decide the next leader I am convinced they would have gone for Andrea Leadsom.

I think so too. I also think there'a a decent chance they'd go for JRM as well.

It should be said though, that Conservative Members did elect David Cameron, when they saw that the IDS' and the Michael Howards' of the world weren't going to win them a majority.

May was carried by this idea that she would be a steady hand on the tiller, and to her credit she managed to fool everyone for about 9 months before things started to go wrong. I think she would have been exposed by a leadership campaign.

In my mind, after seeing what has happened to Labour, I wonder if the members of political parties are really best placed to make these kinds of decisions on a one member one vote basis. Anyone can sign up and join a political party, and most of the people who join the parties don't do any actual work for them. Its just another direct debit that they never get around to cancelling.

Agreed on your first point. I initially thought she was a good choice by the Tories - but over time, particularly after the release of that manifesto, I realised that she wasn't such a good choice after all. I think the Tories were stuck between a rock and a hard place - none of the candidates in that leadership election were really that inspiring.

I think that the big issue with many members of political parties is that they have a tendency to cast their vote based on how much said candidate reflects their personal political views. When these political views are very much likely to be well to the left or right of public opinion.

The_Apocalypse

Zeitgeist said:

If Corbyn gets in, it will be because the vast majority of my fellow millennials decided to support him for PM when they thought he had a credible chance of winning. Anyone who does that proves they are the entitled, irresponsible idiots the Mail claims. A once great nation would be truly throwing in the towel.

LOL. First off, if Corbyn gets in it'll be because of those 40+ (Gen X) switching over to vote for him, not Millennials.

Millennials are generally defined as the generation born after 1981 - the oldest of this generation would be 36. Labour has already won under 35s quite handsomely this time round. It's the more older generations of the working age population where they need to make ground.

And no, voting Corbyn doesn't prove they are 'entitled, irresponsible idiots'. Rather it's much more indicative how badly the Conservative party as alienated this generation.

The_Apocalypse

brendan16 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Yorkcity said:

The_Apocalypse said:

another_richard said:

The_Apocalypse said:

FPT:

Since my last post, the discussion on this thread re the Tories and the under 40s has been a very interesting read.

One thing I'd say that also hasn't helped the Tories is the impression older (Baby Boomers especially) Tory, Brexit voters really dislike young people. The whole millennials are terrible message from right-leaning publications like the Mail, is unlikely to endear many young people to conservatism. Articles like this aren't helpful: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4499044/How-millennial-s-INFURIATING-seniors.html
Why would any young person want to join the Conservative party, if its members/voters don't exactly have a positive attitude towards them? At least many of the older lefties (with the exception of some of those on the American Left, like Bill Maher from example) don't see all young people as 'snowflakes', 'whiners', 'entitled', and all the other negative terminology used to describe us. I have always found it bizarre that a few idiots at universities have led some to decide to negatively judge all/most young people.

It should be noted that the people showing sympathy towards the young on issues such as student debt, housing and stagnant wages tended to vote Leave.

Osborne fans seem to take the opposite attitude.

In regard to this forum, aside from your good self, I don't know about that (am happy to be corrected though). You're the main Leaver I've seen (rightfully) taking Osborne to task on his policies.

Osborne took the good bits out of Universal Credit.https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/17/universal-credit-a-train-wreck-that-must-be-stopped-lib-dems-say

Osborne has really had some cheek in these weeks after the GE. While May didn't exactly help, a lot of the Conservatives longer-term issues with under 40s are really down to the actions of the 'master strategist' while he was Chancellor, presumably because he thought that turnout among younger voters couldn't possibly increase.

Totally agree.

Osborne's policies on help to buy, FLS, QE and more effectively priced out millions of young people from buying a home for ever. House prices doubling from £50k to £100k in the early 2000s is quite another matter to doubling from £250 to £500k as has occurred in London and much of the south east since 2011.

He also saddled a generation with massive tuition fee debts at huge interest rates.

Why would you back a party that has essentially destroyed your hopes and dreams? And yes Osborne with his policies did that! Unless the Tories address housing long term they are finished.

Great post, especially your second to last point.

rcs1000

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

"Boris Johnson and Theresa May in Brexit showdown: Foreign Secretary to tell PM £30bn 'divorce' bill is not acceptable"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/17/boris-johnson-theresa-may-brexit-showdown-10bn-payments-eu/

Not prepared to pay to read the Telegraph, but I note you can read for free "Could your child be a psychopath? Six signs to watch out for". What an appalling rag it has become.

Do any of these traits fit your child?

Narcisstic.
Self centred.
Poor impulse control.
Emotionally needy.
Disorganised.

Could they be a psychopath? Or are they a six year old?

dixiedean

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.



Was not a remark aimed at you or anyone else in your Party. Merely agreeing with Ms Apocalypse that articles like that one don't help.
I am sure you perform your paternal duties admirably and work hard for your community.

I am afraid 'tempus fugit' so I am not as active in the community as I was at one time.

However, my time when I was involved with local organisations provided many happy days and some sad ones too

I well remember meeting a group of 40 or so children from Manchester children's homes at Colwyn Bay beach and see them looking in awe, running wildly down to the sea and plunging in fully clothed. They had never seen the sea or a beach and they were completely mesmerised by the experience. Bless them

Indeed. It is a feature of people who are "interested in politics" that they tend to be the ones who are actively doing something to assist. We may criticise each others' policies, ideas and philosophies. We may even question each others' competence, judgement, common sense or sanity, at times, but for the vast, vast majority of individuals the motivation is to lend a helping hand. They are not the ones sitting around moaning.

The admirable activities you describe are replicated up and down the country, by groups small and large. Usually, you will find a member or volunteer for a political Party at the heart of it.
Sometimes this is forgotten in a haste to be partisan.

Still think that Mail article was bollocks mind.

Benpointer

The_Apocalypse said:

Zeitgeist said:

If Corbyn gets in, it will be because the vast majority of my fellow millennials decided to support him for PM when they thought he had a credible chance of winning. Anyone who does that proves they are the entitled, irresponsible idiots the Mail claims. A once great nation would be truly throwing in the towel.

LOL. First off, if Corbyn gets in it'll be because of those 40+ switching over to vote for him, not Millennials.

Millennials are generally defined as the generation born after 1981 - the oldest of this generation would be 36. Labour has already won under 35s quite handsomely this time round. It's the more older generations of the working age population where they need to make ground.

And no, voting Corbyn doesn't prove they are 'entitled, irresponsible idiots'. Rather it's much more indicative how badly the Conservative party as alienated this generation.

Spot on Apocalypse!

Come on Zeitgeist, admit it, you're Katie Hopkins really.

williamglenn

rcs1000 said:

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

"Boris Johnson and Theresa May in Brexit showdown: Foreign Secretary to tell PM £30bn 'divorce' bill is not acceptable"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/17/boris-johnson-theresa-may-brexit-showdown-10bn-payments-eu/

Not prepared to pay to read the Telegraph, but I note you can read for free "Could your child be a psychopath? Six signs to watch out for". What an appalling rag it has become.

Do any of these traits fit your child?

Narcisstic.
Self centred.
Poor impulse control.
Emotionally needy.
Disorganised.

Could they be a psychopath? Or are they a six year old?

"Does your President/Foreign Secretary have the emotional maturity of a six year old?"

Big_G_NorthWales

dixiedean said:

As a Father of 3 and a Grandfather of 4 the only thing that matters to me are my children and grandchildren's future and throughout my life I have always wanted the best for young people. Indeed I was chairman of our PTA, chairman of the group scout council, secretary of the community centre committee and was part of a group who tended to a local children's home needs through charity fund raising.

And all the time a conservative voter and recently member.

Was not a remark aimed at you or anyone else in your Party. Merely agreeing with Ms Apocalypse that articles like that one don't help.
I am sure you perform your paternal duties admirably and work hard for your community.

I am afraid 'tempus fugit' so I am not as active in the community as I was at one time.

However, my time when I was involved with local organisations provided many happy days and some sad ones too

I well remember meeting a group of 40 or so children from Manchester children's homes at Colwyn Bay beach and see them looking in awe, running wildly down to the sea and plunging in fully clothed. They had never seen the sea or a beach and they were completely mesmerised by the experience. Bless them

Indeed. It is a feature of people who are "interested in politics" that they tend to be the ones who are actively doing something to assist. We may criticise each others' policies, ideas and philosophies. We may even question each others' competence, judgement, common sense or sanity, at times, but for the vast, vast majority of individuals the motivation is to lend a helping hand. They are not the ones sitting around moaning.

The admirable activities you describe are replicated up and down the country, by groups small and large. Usually, you will find a member or volunteer for a political Party at the heart of it.
Sometimes this is forgotten in a haste to be partisan.

Still think that Mail article was bollocks mind.

Agree with you on this but I was not that politically engaged in those days. Just well known in the community in a non political way