Of course. If you make it obvious enough that you hate foreigners, they're going to react accordingly. Fewer people are coming and more people are leaving.
I've been predicting that for months.
It looks like net migration is levelling out at 250k.
...We're like a teenager who leaves home without a job or money and then sits in the street outside wailing rather than actually getting on with their independent life, hard as it may be.
How? We haven't left yet - there's a two year wait in the hallway whilst the rest of the world is shouting through the letterbox with new opportunities. We've already got a job and skills that others want. We're currently paying rent for our bedroom so soon we're about to have more disposable income to spend elsewhere. We've 582 days 3 hours and 18 minutes away from getting on with our independent life.
Sheesh, your analogy was terrible. It was painful trying to work with it.
Disdain for A does not mean adulation for B. @Cyclefree is hardly a starry-eyed fan of Eurocrats (nor am I for that matter). It doesn't improve the quality of the UK's offering though.
Only ever criticising the side you disagree with gives that impression
I could point to a fair range of thread headers where my lack of enthusiasm for Eurocrats was pretty obvious.
Thread headers pay quick lip service to the alternative argument as per GCSE teachings, but only in a verse chorus verse traditional structure.
In your comments you make snide jokes about Leavers on a daily basis, and twist every story to be bad for Brexit as do all the other hardcore Remainers. It's like watching a 70s racist blame the black bloke for everything that goes wrong. Telling each other how clever you all are is just a delaying mechanism for coming to terms w defeat. It's probably time to relax about it. Try Headspace
What will you do Mr I, if at the end of the day the Government throws up it’s hands and says it’s just too difficult.
I'd be disappointed but there's not a lot I can personally do about it
Of course. If you make it obvious enough that you hate foreigners, they're going to react accordingly. Fewer people are coming and more people are leaving.
I've been predicting that for months.
I wonder how the figures actually break down. Are expats coming home? How many EU migrants are there? And how does the ‘mix’ compare with the figurtes for 2016?
Of course. If you make it obvious enough that you hate foreigners, they're going to react accordingly. Fewer people are coming and more people are leaving.
I've been predicting that for months.
It looks like net migration is levelling out at 250k.
Why do you say levelling out?
Only 3/4 of this reporting period is post Brexit. The drop is due to a net reduction in EU migration, and a drop in non-EU students. I suspect both will drop further in subsequent quarters. Non EU immigration excluding students seems stable.
...We're like a teenager who leaves home without a job or money and then sits in the street outside wailing rather than actually getting on with their independent life, hard as it may be.
...
Sheesh, your analogy was terrible. It was painful trying to work with it.
Fair enough. It's early.
But the rest of the world is not really shouting at us with new opportunities. They see a country which will be a supplicant. So yes we might get some deals but they will come at a price and we will be the weaker party. We will no longer be the entry point for the rest of the Single Market so our existing skills / job are less attractive. We will have to pay back the money we owe so will have less to spend - at least in the short-term - and we seem currently to be asking our existing family to give us all sorts of things which are incompatible with really being independent.
Disdain for A does not mean adulation for B. @Cyclefree is hardly a starry-eyed fan of Eurocrats (nor am I for that matter). It doesn't improve the quality of the UK's offering though.
Only ever criticising the side you disagree with gives that impression
I could point to a fair range of thread headers where my lack of enthusiasm for Eurocrats was pretty obvious.
Thread headers pay quick lip service to the alternative argument as per GCSE teachings, but only in a verse chorus verse traditional structure.
In your comments you make snide jokes about Leavers on a daily basis, and twist every story to be bad for Brexit as do all the other hardcore Remainers. It's like watching a 70s racist blame the black bloke for everything that goes wrong. Telling each other how clever you all are is just a delaying mechanism for coming to terms w defeat. It's probably time to relax about it. Try Headspace
What will you do Mr I, if at the end of the day the Government throws up it’s hands and says it’s just too difficult.
I know this wasn't directed at me, Mr OKC, but if you're interested, and not that I think it'll be an issue, but I'd do all I could to secure a government that has a back bone and a belief in democracy.
Representatives need to learn that they're servants, not masters, of their people. This gives them immense responsibility, and not a little power. But the responsibility is far more important than the power.
Contrast with the new Tory MP in the same article:
Kemi has friends from across parties, and is saddened but not surprised to hear that some Labour MPs wouldn’t consider it: “They genuinely believe that we are vermin.” She goes on: “I have family members who vote Labour. If you’re in a position where all the people you know think and look like you, you have a problem.”
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
I had a (20W?) lightbulb moment reading the piece in die Welt below. It's worth persevering with Google Translate. The author asks why the government hasn't done a single thing to prepare the country for Brexit and thinks it isn't serious about Brexit. I would say more indecision than a plan but it comes to the same thing. There is plenty of argument in the UK about Brexit but very little discussion about how to achieve it.
I realised for the first time that there is a consensus of sorts in the UK about Brexit. Both Remainers and Leavers want Brexit to change things as little as possible. In the Remainers' case it's about damage limitation. In the Leavers' case it is an expectation that nothing important will change after Brexit - the absence of a Project Fear essentially. Patrick Minford's wildly misinformed report that Britain will be £135 billion better off after Brexit is predicated on us continuing to trade on exactly the same terms after Brexit as now.
I have always thought Leavers were making a mistake in thinking there would be no real change with Brexit but missed the much more important point that they don't actually want there to be change. They may talk, as Professor Minford does, of opportunities but virtually no-one is prepared to take responsibility for effecting change. Certainly none of the politicians are. I expect the job to end up with the civil servants who, in the absence of a steer from politicians, will aim not to rock the boat. The recent flurry of "position papers" are civil servants at their finest, articulating fluently about nothing much at all.
For the first time I am more concerned about the EU negotiators than the UK ones. We are waiting for them to tell us what's what - we are not going to do it ourselves - and therefore rely on the kindness of those we have estranged. I hope they are tolerant of our stupidity, give us our figleaves of control - our indirect jurisdictions, our new and special relationships - and don't screw us over just because they can. The UK is worth keeping in the EU camp.
Yes, it's an interesting piece, FF, but I don't agree with your last sentence.
The EU will be better off without us, and in the greater scheme of things that's more important than saving us from our own folly, a task they were never obliged to undertake.
Even more worrying..... WPP the worlds largest advertiser's shares fell 13% yesterday. Advertising is the best bellweather that there is. When the future looks bleak the first thing to cut is the ad budget.....
Of course. If you make it obvious enough that you hate foreigners, they're going to react accordingly. Fewer people are coming and more people are leaving.
I've been predicting that for months.
It looks like net migration is levelling out at 250k.
Why do you say levelling out?
Only 3/4 of this reporting period is post Brexit. The drop is due to a net reduction in EU migration, and a drop in non-EU students. I suspect both will drop further in subsequent quarters. Non EU immigration excluding students seems stable.
Because quarter on quarter net migration was only down 3,000.
Of course. If you make it obvious enough that you hate foreigners, they're going to react accordingly. Fewer people are coming and more people are leaving.
I've been predicting that for months.
I wonder how the figures actually break down. Are expats coming home? How many EU migrants are there? And how does the ‘mix’ compare with the figurtes for 2016?
The net figures are +115 000 EU citizens, +145 000 Non EU citzens, - 50 000 UK citizens.
So in the net figures Britons move abroad rather than expats return. This is based on the figures in table 7 rounded. It doesnt seem to add up to +246 000 net, I am not sure why.
Even more worrying..... WPP the worlds largest advertiser's shares fell 13% yesterday. Advertising is the best bellweather that there is. When the future looks bleak the first thing to cut is the ad budget.....
Mr. Roger, bellwether*. It refers to a castrated ram (wether).
The uncertainty will not last forever. The Battle of Britain this is not.
Mr. Punter, I agree with the implied suggestion that the EU will integrate more rapidly without us in it. However, I also think that may well hasten its disintegration, which will be a good thing. The longer the EU takes to crumble, the worse the ultimate result will be.
I maintain that the key to Trump’s presidency is his bill on repatriation of overseas corporate cash. It will release several hundred billion dollars of tax revenue which he has earmarked for infrastructure spending across mainly rural America, as well as potentially a couple of trillion (with a T) dollars into the general economy. If that happens he’s probably getting re-elected.
Its not just the bringing onshore of $1trn, it is the conditionality of what they do with that $1trn after paying $100bn or so of taxes. My understanding is that they will require to give undertakings to spend it in the US.
The ideal for Trump is that it helps rebuild new industries in the rust bucket marginal states. That may well happen to some extent but the price of small internet start ups is going to soar even higher as the Tech giants buy up every bit of IP they think might ever have any potential.
Money was ploughed into share buy-backs and dividends, and many of the biggest beneficiaries cut jobs.
"The CRS cited a series of reports into the benefits of repatriation, with a common theme that the 2004 program was "an ineffective means of increasing economic growth."
Maybe Trump will do better, but it seems premature to assume this will get him re-elected.
As an aside- I think the US economy is doing pretty well... yet Trump's ratings continue to decline.
It is a truism that GOP voters are an alliance of the rich voting for tax cuts and the poor voting for God. Share buybacks and increased dividends will do a great deal for the first group. You are probably right that it won't create many jobs for the second.
It is surely in the interest of all groups that capital is redistributed to the most efficient businesses.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Even more worrying..... WPP the worlds largest advertiser's shares fell 13% yesterday. Advertising is the best bellweather that there is. When the future looks bleak the first thing to cut is the ad budget.....
We're on our way to Hell in a handcart.....
Given they're the world's largest advertiser, then it is surely not a UK problem, but a sectoral issue?
Online advertising from the big two is surely hitting them, rather than Brexit?
Mr. Roger, bellwether*. It refers to a castrated ram (wether).
The uncertainty will not last forever. The Battle of Britain this is not.
Mr. Punter, I agree with the implied suggestion that the EU will integrate more rapidly without us in it. However, I also think that may well hasten its disintegration, which will be a good thing. The longer the EU takes to crumble, the worse the ultimate result will be.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Indeed.
Snow on the Today programme today seems to be getting the fact that the media and much of the metro elite live in a bubble.
Even more worrying..... WPP the worlds largest advertiser's shares fell 13% yesterday. Advertising is the best bellweather that there is. When the future looks bleak the first thing to cut is the ad budget.....
Mr. Roger, bellwether*. It refers to a castrated ram (wether).
The uncertainty will not last forever. The Battle of Britain this is not.
Mr. Punter, I agree with the implied suggestion that the EU will integrate more rapidly without us in it. However, I also think that may well hasten its disintegration, which will be a good thing. The longer the EU takes to crumble, the worse the ultimate result will be.
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
The idea that a don, clever as she is, would know more about the impact of immigration on Grimsby than a resident is laughable.
Even more worrying..... WPP the worlds largest advertiser's shares fell 13% yesterday. Advertising is the best bellweather that there is. When the future looks bleak the first thing to cut is the ad budget.....
We're on our way to Hell in a handcart.....
Given they're the world's largest advertiser, then it is surely not a UK problem, but a sectoral issue?
Online advertising from the big two is surely hitting them, rather than Brexit?
Newham is very interesting, it has both the highest international immigration (+31.9%), and the highest internal emmigration (-31.5%) AND the highest "natural" increase.
Like a giant airport arrival lounge and international maternity centre all rolled into one.
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
Anyone who claims that excess immigration is not a problem really needs to do an Orwell and go and live in Grimsby in social housing for a year, and with so little money that if the NHS grinds to a halt and they happen to be ill, they die (not claim on their employer's health policy, not ring their stockbroker and sell some shares to pay to go private, not remortgage the house, just die). Even that wouldn't work, for Pulp "Common People" reasons, but it would be a start.
Even more worrying..... WPP the worlds largest advertiser's shares fell 13% yesterday. Advertising is the best bellweather that there is. When the future looks bleak the first thing to cut is the ad budget.....
We're on our way to Hell in a handcart.....
The picture is especially grim in North America, where like-for-like net sales fell by 3.3% in the second quarter, and by 2.2% in the first half of 2017. North America accounts for 38% of WPP's business.......WPP is facing a 'perfect storm' this year of flattening business in China and Brazil which have been strengths in the past; their CPG clients sharing some of their own struggles with them; and an internet hack to boot
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Is the whole problem in Barking, and Dagenham EU immigrants? Are those the areas you mentioned relating to "white flight"?
Mr. Mortimer, quite. But that's a problem akin to transport policymakers almost all being London residents/workers. They propose things that may be feasible there (the electric car drive) without realising it's probably unworkable or at least far less feasible in rural parts of the countryside.
Likewise concentrating medical services in fewer hospitals. If that means waiting a few stops extra on the Tube, it's not a real problem. If you're in Cumbria and that means an extra two hours' drive on rural roads that are prone to flash flooding (and there's no second route) that's an entirely different situation.
Even more worrying..... WPP the worlds largest advertiser's shares fell 13% yesterday. Advertising is the best bellweather that there is. When the future looks bleak the first thing to cut is the ad budget.....
We're on our way to Hell in a handcart.....
Given they're the world's largest advertiser, then it is surely not a UK problem, but a sectoral issue?
Online advertising from the big two is surely hitting them, rather than Brexit?
Exactly - its the US, China, Brazil & the Internet......
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
Anyone who claims that excess immigration is not a problem really needs to do an Orwell and go and live in Grimsby in social housing for a year, and with so little money that if the NHS grinds to a halt and they happen to be ill, they die (not claim on their employer's health policy, not ring their stockbroker and sell some shares to pay to go private, not remortgage the house, just die). Even that wouldn't work, for Pulp "Common People" reasons, but it would be a start.
'Common People' describes the situation better than anything else I've come across.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Indeed.
Snow on the Today programme today seems to be getting the fact that the media and much of the metro elite live in a bubble.
While goodness knows May has her challenges - I think she gets this too....
Actually, it's worth saying that as the net migration figure stayed roughly the same for the year ending March 2017 compared with the year ending December 2016, we can infer that the net migration figures for January to March of 2017 (after the vote to leave the EU) were roughly the same as for those for January to March of 2016 (before the vote).
Newham is very interesting, it has both the highest international immigration (+31.9%), and the highest internal emmigration (-31.5%) AND the highest "natural" increase.
Like a giant airport arrival lounge and international maternity centre all rolled into one.
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
The idea that a don, clever as she is, would know more about the impact of immigration on Grimsby than a resident is laughable.
She may well do. The population of Grimsby is more than 95% white British, and is one of the parts of the country where the overall population is decreasing.
Indeed despite the hype about immigration and Brexit, many of the strongest areas for Leave were areas of declining population. Probably this is because economic prosperity, Remain voting and inward immigration are all positively correlated.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Indeed.
Snow on the Today programme today seems to be getting the fact that the media and much of the metro elite live in a bubble.
What you mean standing in a field in Somerset off your tits shouting f##k the Tories with a load of middle class wankers is still living in a bubble?
The reality is even with the ridiculous BBC move to Salford, the media is still totally bubblified. And Snow observation is still bullshit, as he is talking about not really realising what it is like in London slums, as he spends his days not reporting to the police women getting their heads smashed into car bonnets.
But in places like Stoke (which were big leave areas) have totally different look, feel and issues.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Is the whole problem in Barking, and Dagenham EU immigrants? Are those the areas you mentioned relating to "white flight"?
No I wouldn't say it was the whole problem, maybe not even the main problem. EU inmigration has affected economically, non EU immigration has affected socially. The referendum was a once in a lifetime opportunity to give the people in charge a wake up call
I try to avoid them, despite their proximity, but when I find myself there, Barking in particular, it is like being in a 3rd world country. I'd suggest any London PBers go to Barking for a day, or even just for an hour or two, better than me explaining. 15 mins from the City by c2c, you can easily escape.
Maybe the next PB drinks should be at The Barking Dog?
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
The idea that a don, clever as she is, would know more about the impact of immigration on Grimsby than a resident is laughable.
I heard a vox pop from a bingo hall in Preston. The general consensus was that they wanted out of the EU because they didn't like foreigners talking foreign and things on English streets. I think there's every chance Mary Beard has a better understanding of the real effects of immigration on Grimsby than one of it's residents.
Even more worrying..... WPP the worlds largest advertiser's shares fell 13% yesterday. Advertising is the best bellweather that there is. When the future looks bleak the first thing to cut is the ad budget.....
WPP Rest of World down, WPP UK up. Conclusion = Brexit boosting UK, whilst R.O.W. has a mini slump.
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
The idea that a don, clever as she is, would know more about the impact of immigration on Grimsby than a resident is laughable.
I heard a vox pop from a bingo hall in Preston. The general consensus was that they wanted out of the EU because they didn't like foreigners talking foreign and things on English streets. I think there's every chance Mary Beard has a better understanding of the real effects of immigration on Grimsby than one of it's residents.
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
The idea that a don, clever as she is, would know more about the impact of immigration on Grimsby than a resident is laughable.
I heard a vox pop from a bingo hall in Preston. The general consensus was that they wanted out of the EU because they didn't like foreigners talking foreign and things on English streets. I think there's every chance Mary Beard has a better understanding of the real effects of immigration on Grimsby than one of it's residents.
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
The idea that a don, clever as she is, would know more about the impact of immigration on Grimsby than a resident is laughable.
She may well do. The population of Grimsby is more than 95% white British, and is one of the parts of the country where the overall population is decreasing.
Indeed despite the hype about immigration and Brexit, many of the strongest areas for Leave were areas of declining population. Probably this is because economic prosperity, Remain voting and inward immigration are all positively correlated.
We can't rule out the possibility that the 95% white British population of Grimsby are selflessly concerned about other towns & cities suffering more grievously from the burden of immigration. Such altruism should be applauded.
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over the responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
The trouble with Land value Tax is that the value of the land depends on what stands on it. So you end up with a property tax after all.
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over the responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
The trouble with Land value Tax is that the value of the land depends on what stands on it. So you end up with a property tax after all.
I think the idea is for the "unimproved" value of the land to be the tax basis.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Is the whole problem in Barking, and Dagenham EU immigrants? Are those the areas you mentioned relating to "white flight"?
No I wouldn't say it was the whole problem, maybe not even the main problem. EU inmigration has affected economically, non EU immigration has affected socially. The referendum was a once in a lifetime opportunity to give the people in charge a wake up call
I try to avoid them, despite their proximity, but when I find myself there, Barking in particular, it is like being in a 3rd world country. I'd suggest any London PBers go to Barking for a day, or even just for an hour or two, better than me explaining. 15 mins from the City by c2c, you can easily escape.
Maybe the next PB drinks should be at The Barking Dog?
The two worst scored reviews I actually rather liked for the feel they gave of the place: Over the occasions that I have drunk here, It is your typical weatherspoons. Good prices and decent meals.The location isn't the best and nor is the clientele. Not a place for taking someone on a date. and Mr noel mcloughney ok..cheap drink. Pub full of white racists prattling on about Muslims and poles. But cheap beer and clean.
Cheap beer and clean? Suits me. Sign me up. I'm in.
Just a point about the silly Grimsby example...I can't speak for Grimsby, but in places like Stoke and Crewe, there is significant "trade" in agency workers bussed in from Manchester and Birmingham to work in the factories and warehouses, and who are exclusively non-British (either Eastern European or Asian).
So although the demographics living in an area might say x, people's experiences on the ground is that they go to work and find a significant proportion of their shift which used to be all locals i.e. more likely to be British and white, is now ZHC agency workers who are all foreign.
Also we known from research in places like Slough, nobody actually knows who lives a non-insiginficant proportion of homes due to subletting and slum landlords. There were complaints from locals that "all the foreigners were jumping the council house lists", and BBC did a special programme and found that wasn't true, it was infact that people were illegally subletting out their council houses and the council admitted they neither knew or had the resources to enforce this. But the locals weren't wrong to say their area had significantly changed.
Yes, it's an interesting piece, FF, but I don't agree with your last sentence.
The EU will be better off without us, and in the greater scheme of things that's more important than saving us from our own folly, a task they were never obliged to undertake.
They have no interest in shielding us from the consequences of our own choices.
I remain convinced that Brexiteers will accept their defeat with good grace at the end of the day. They need one last hurrah before accepting the inevitability of being part of a political Europe. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
The idea that a don, clever as she is, would know more about the impact of immigration on Grimsby than a resident is laughable.
I heard a vox pop from a bingo hall in Preston. The general consensus was that they wanted out of the EU because they didn't like foreigners talking foreign and things on English streets. I think there's every chance Mary Beard has a better understanding of the real effects of immigration on Grimsby than one of it's residents.
Mr. Isam, I have vague memories, from years ago, of Mary Beard on Question Time trying to tell a Grimsby resident excessive migration wasn't having a negative impact on Grimsby. The lady to whom she was speaking was not convinced.
The idea that a don, clever as she is, would know more about the impact of immigration on Grimsby than a resident is laughable.
She may well do. The population of Grimsby is more than 95% white British, and is one of the parts of the country where the overall population is decreasing.
Indeed despite the hype about immigration and Brexit, many of the strongest areas for Leave were areas of declining population. Probably this is because economic prosperity, Remain voting and inward immigration are all positively correlated.
We can't rule out the possibility that the 95% white British population of Grimsby are selflessly concerned about other towns & cities suffering more grievously from the burden of immigration. Such altruism should be applauded.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Is the whole problem in Barking, and Dagenham EU immigrants? Are those the areas you mentioned relating to "white flight"?
No I wouldn't say it was the whole problem, maybe not even the main problem. EU inmigration has affected economically, non EU immigration has affected socially. The referendum was a once in a lifetime opportunity to give the people in charge a wake up call
I try to avoid them, despite their proximity, but when I find myself there, Barking in particular, it is like being in a 3rd world country. I'd suggest any London PBers go to Barking for a day, or even just for an hour or two, better than me explaining. 15 mins from the City by c2c, you can easily escape.
Maybe the next PB drinks should be at The Barking Dog?
If it was a wake up call then they seem to have hit the snooze button. I appreciate that voting Brexit was like kicking the dog, but it sounds like the key issue for you is non-EU immigration. If anything, and let's suppose the government decides that economically we need as many immigrants as before, the unintended consequence of the Brexit vote will be to increase the type of immigration you have identified as being most disliked.
Bitcoin as the way of the future for purchasing day to day items ain't looking so good...
What this means is that during a traffic spike in the bitcoin network, if you want to pay $3 for a coffee with bitcoin, you might have to pay an extra $3 or more just to get your transaction confirmed in a timely manner. The restaurant (or bar, or shop) could let you go before the transaction is confirmed, but then they take on the risk of selling their goods for IOUs.
Disclaimer: I live in a private house, owned by me. Perhaps everyone on the thread discussing immigration could make a similar declaration, including second and third homes where applicable.
Disclaimer: I live in a private house, owned by me. Perhaps everyone on the thread discussing immigration could make a similar declaration, including second and third homes where applicable.
What are we saying? That there are shitholes in the UK? No argument from me there.
Plus I saw that documentary on Grimsby recently and they really do have hearts of gold so I have great confidence.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierce debate recently with a fervent Remainer. He said I was talking balls that immigrant populations rely heavily on public services. After I told him of my friend's school having to cope with large numbers of non-English speaking children (largely eastern european), with figures, he hand waved it away.
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Is the whole problem in Barking, and Dagenham EU immigrants? Are those the areas you mentioned relating to "white flight"?
No I wouldn't say it was the whole problem, maybe not even the main problem. EU inmigration has affected economically, non EU immigration has affected socially. The referendum was a once in a lifetime opportunity to give the people in charge a wake up call
I try to avoid them, despite their proximity, but when I find myself there, Barking in particular, it is like being in a 3rd world country. I'd suggest any London PBers go to Barking for a day, or even just for an hour or two, better than me explaining. 15 mins from the City by c2c, you can easily escape.
Maybe the next PB drinks should be at The Barking Dog?
If it was a wake up call then they seem to have hit the snooze button. I appreciate that voting Brexit was like kicking the dog, but it sounds like the key issue for you is non-EU immigration. If anything, and let's suppose the government decides that economically we need as many immigrants as before, the unintended consequence of the Brexit vote will be to increase the type of immigration you have identified as being most disliked.
I do wish you'd stop putting words into my mouth. You do it every time we debate, very unhelpful, I don't think I reciprocate.
Disclaimer: I live in a private house, owned by me. Perhaps everyone on the thread discussing immigration could make a similar declaration, including second and third homes where applicable.
What are we saying? That there are shitholes in the UK? No argument from me there.
Plus I saw that documentary on Grimsby recently and they really do have hearts of gold so I have great confidence.
That wasn't filmed in Grimsby, it was a production made in Tilbury. Which is definitely a dump.
The latest migration figures show that net migration between the UK and the A8 countries is now statistically insignificant. It shows that EU free movement does not create permanent upward pressure on numbers.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierc him that link,,,,,
One reason for the stunning lack of empathy from people who argue that all Leavers are stupid, racist scum, could be that whereas Leavers often commute into large cities that voted Remain for work, those who voted to remain rarely go to leave areas. They probably genuinely don't really believe it can be that bad to live in Barking or Dagenham, where there are no nice parts where you don't have to mingle with the proles while boasting of living in the same postcode to friends you want to impress with your 'gritty inner city' credentials
Is the whole problem in Barking, and Dagenham EU immigrants? Are those the areas you mentioned relating to "white flight"?
No I wouldn't say it was the whole problem, maybe not even the main problem. EU inmigration has affected economically, non EU immigration has affected socially. The referendum was a once in a lifetime opportunity to give the people in charge a wake up call
I try to avoid them, despite their proximity, but when I find myself there, Barking in particular, it is like being in a 3rd world country. I'd suggest any London PBers go to Barking for a day, or even just for an hour or two, better than me explaining. 15 mins from the City by c2c, you can easily escape.
Maybe the next PB drinks should be at The Barking Dog?
If it was a wake up call then they seem to have hit the snooze button. I appreciate that voting Brexit was like kicking the dog, but it sounds like the key issue for you is non-EU immigration. If anything, and let's suppose the government decides that economically we need as many immigrants as before, the unintended consequence of the Brexit vote will be to increase the type of immigration you have identified as being most disliked.
I do wish you'd stop putting words into my mouth. You do it every time we debate, very unhelpful, I don't think I reciprocate.
OK apologies. You discussed white flight some while ago. Plus I am drawing inferences from your actual words "it's like being in a third world country", etc.
The main point, however, is that a Brexit vote won't solve, and might arguably exacerbate the issue of non-EU immigration, which you have identified as being a big problem, if not for yourself.
The main point, however, is that a Brexit vote won't solve, and might arguably exacerbate the issue of non-EU immigration, which you have identified as being a big problem, if not for yourself.
Still at least these other people (not isam) who have a problem with it will know who not to blame... Not isam because he's never voted for the government. They need to point the finger at the kind of rich foreign students that Pulp sung about.
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
5% of what exactly? Of the value of the property? Of the land per se it sits on? Who values it? What's the appeals process How doe it work for flats? What about the 90 year old widow who's lived in a house for 50 years now worth a million quid because it was in a crap bit of town that's now trendy - any discount?
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
Something tells me the Treasury is not going to be distraught that this tax is raising more revenue than planned.
Although the idea was to change behaviour (i.e. put off BTL). So if that's not happening (too early to tell I'd say) then they may have to increase it further!
It's part of the reason I voted to leave - they haven't the skill of the average Parish council, because they are increasingly engaged in issues that don't require it. And when important issues come up, they fudge them and leave the mess under the carpet for the next ill prepared minister. The only way this improves is if the standing of the job improves - and that will require the Parliament of these Islands to have real power again. They shouldn't be discussing children's lunchboxes, or five a day targets.
You think Brexit will make MPs smarter?
Wow
Yes, because better people will stand once the role creates the opportunity to impact the country for the better.
The current crop, will remain useless, in their new jobs
Yes but remember to save your bus fare home. On all known form, the boxer wins but he has not been in the ring for two years. But as expected, the money is starting to come back for Mayweather, and mine is included in that, and it is now generally 1/4 vs 7/2 (4/1 in a place).
What is interesting is the bookies talking about the number of bets rather than the totals staked. In the referendum, famously the bookies paid insufficient heed to the number of small bets for Brexit, where of course each punter has one vote regardless of stakes. Here, it is not as if all those 10-euro patriotic Irish punters can get in the ring alongside Conor.
An over estimate of 95%+ seems...big. Thank goodness these estimates haven't been an element in national politics over the last few years.
And thank goodness the former Home Secretary responsible for immigration and not counting students leaving is no longer in that job. She's been kicked upstairs. What harm could happen?
It's part of the reason I voted to leave - they haven't the skill of the average Parish council, because they are increasingly engaged in issues that don't require it. And when important issues come up, they fudge them and leave the mess under the carpet for the next ill prepared minister. The only way this improves is if the standing of the job improves - and that will require the Parliament of these Islands to have real power again. They shouldn't be discussing children's lunchboxes, or five a day targets.
You have put your finger on a real problem but have come up with a wrong-headed solution.
The reason that Westminster politicians are ill-equipped for decision making at the national level is that the country is too centralised and the political culture treats parliament as a giant parish council. Perhaps nowhere is the more apparent than in the ongoing use of the health service as a political football. If Westminster politicians were left to deal only with decisions that really need to be taken at UK level, they wouldn't be able to hide behind trivialities.
That is an argument that will be had in earnest once power is repatriated to the UK government, then this analysis should trickle down into 'What is the best form of governance in particular policy areas'. If you have lots of Directives which require uniformity, then a strong centralising government might make more sense. If the UK government could grant more flexibility, then the argument surely exists for doing so, and therefore devolving more powers to local level.
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
Something tells me the Treasury is not going to be distraught that this tax is raising more revenue than planned.
Although the idea was to change behaviour (i.e. put off BTL). So if that's not happening (too early to tell I'd say) then they may have to increase it further!
If the tax is raising more without putting people off BTL, then the net result is most likely to be the unintended consequence of putting rents up, as the landlord will want to retain the margin they make on the property.
The tenant, I suspect, will be the one who pays the cost, not the Landlord or Agent (- it will be remarkable how rents rise to cover the lost income to agents for the fees they charge as they are prevented from continuing the rip off they conduct at present).
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
Something tells me the Treasury is not going to be distraught that this tax is raising more revenue than planned.
Although the idea was to change behaviour (i.e. put off BTL). So if that's not happening (too early to tell I'd say) then they may have to increase it further!
The stated idea was to change behaviour but the Treasury is after revenues too. The cynic in me thinks it generates better PR to say "we're putting tax up on this because we want to discourage this" than "we're putting tax up on this because we think we can get away with it".
Wouldn't surprise me if this goes up though. Like cigarette duties the balancing act is trying to raise revenues, change behaviour, but not change behaviour too much that the revenues disappear.
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
Something tells me the Treasury is not going to be distraught that this tax is raising more revenue than planned.
Although the idea was to change behaviour (i.e. put off BTL). So if that's not happening (too early to tell I'd say) then they may have to increase it further!
The stated idea was to change behaviour but the Treasury is after revenues too. The cynic in me thinks it generates better PR to say "we're putting tax up on this because we want to discourage this" than "we're putting tax up on this because we think we can get away with it".
Wouldn't surprise me if this goes up though. Like cigarette duties the balancing act is trying to raise revenues, change behaviour, but not change behaviour too much that the revenues disappear.
Yes, it's an interesting piece, FF, but I don't agree with your last sentence.
The EU will be better off without us, and in the greater scheme of things that's more important than saving us from our own folly, a task they were never obliged to undertake.
They have no interest in shielding us from the consequences of our own choices.
I remain convinced that Brexiteers will accept their defeat with good grace at the end of the day. They need one last hurrah before accepting the inevitability of being part of a political Europe. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
William, you have just won the PB Award for Supreme Optimist of The Year!
Disclaimer: I live in a private house, owned by me. Perhaps everyone on the thread discussing immigration could make a similar declaration, including second and third homes where applicable.
What are we saying? That there are shitholes in the UK? No argument from me there.
Plus I saw that documentary on Grimsby recently and they really do have hearts of gold so I have great confidence.
That wasn't filmed in Grimsby, it was a production made in Tilbury. Which is definitely a dump.
Next you'll be telling me that his brother wasn't actually a secret agent.
An over estimate of 95%+ seems...big. Thank goodness these estimates haven't been an element in national politics over the last few years.
One can wonder how far off the estimate is for the non-students. are we going to hit the government target on immigration retrospectively?
In that case I'm sure all those immigration motivated Brexiteers (admittedly a negligible number according to Dan Hannan) will accept that Brexit is a waste of time and ask for it to be cancelled.
The latest migration figures show that net migration between the UK and the A8 countries is now statistically insignificant. It shows that EU free movement does not create permanent upward pressure on numbers.
It was not free movement from the A8 countries which was a problem but from Eastern Europe after Blair's failure to.impose transition controls in 2004
Yes, it's an interesting piece, FF, but I don't agree with your last sentence.
The EU will be better off without us, and in the greater scheme of things that's more important than saving us from our own folly, a task they were never obliged to undertake.
They have no interest in shielding us from the consequences of our own choices.
I remain convinced that Brexiteers will accept their defeat with good grace at the end of the day. They need one last hurrah before accepting the inevitability of being part of a political Europe. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
There will be no defeat, we will probably eventually rejoin Norway and Switzerland in EFTA which we should have stayed in in retrospect before leaving to join the EEC in the 1970s but we will not rejoin the EU
The latest migration figures show that net migration between the UK and the A8 countries is now statistically insignificant. It shows that EU free movement does not create permanent upward pressure on numbers.
It was not free movement from the A8 countries which was a problem but from Eastern Europe after Blair's failure to.impose transition controls in 2004
The A8 are the Eastern European countries. A15 are the original EU. The A2 are Romania and Bulgaria.
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
Something tells me the Treasury is not going to be distraught that this tax is raising more revenue than planned.
Although the idea was to change behaviour (i.e. put off BTL). So if that's not happening (too early to tell I'd say) then they may have to increase it further!
If the tax is raising more without putting people off BTL, then the net result is most likely to be the unintended consequence of putting rents up, as the landlord will want to retain the margin they make on the property.
The tenant, I suspect, will be the one who pays the cost, not the Landlord or Agent (- it will be remarkable how rents rise to cover the lost income to agents for the fees they charge as they are prevented from continuing the rip off they conduct at present).
One other factor is the benefit system places a floor under rent levels -- ostensibly helping tenants, it can also be seen as a subsidy to landlords.
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
I had a rather fierc him that link,,,,,
Is the whole problem in Barking, and Dagenham EU immigrants? Are those the areas you mentioned relating to "white flight"?
No I wouldn't say it was the whole problem, maybe not even the main problem. EU inmigration has affected economically, non EU immigration has affected socially. The referendum was a once in a lifetime opportunity to give the people in charge a wake up call
Maybe the next PB drinks should be at The Barking Dog?
I do wish you'd stop putting words into my mouth. You do it every time we debate, very unhelpful, I don't think I reciprocate.
OK apologies. You discussed white flight some while ago. Plus I am drawing inferences from your actual words "it's like being in a third world country", etc.
The main point, however, is that a Brexit vote won't solve, and might arguably exacerbate the issue of non-EU immigration, which you have identified as being a big problem, if not for yourself.
The government can let in as many EU nationals as they like. Just issue them visas.
That's the beauty of being able to make up your own rules on immigration.
It's not non-EU immigration that people have a problem with, most people are ok with American, Japanese, Australian, Chinese, Indian etc. Obviously because they are more likely to integrate, work, pay tax, have low crime rates and in general aren't extremists.
Probably a good rule would be that immigration should be roughly equitable. So lot's people from Britain want to live in the US and vice versa. This shows that the countries are generally compatible. The problem comes when you have 50 times more coming one way than going the other.
The latest migration figures show that net migration between the UK and the A8 countries is now statistically insignificant. It shows that EU free movement does not create permanent upward pressure on numbers.
It was not free movement from the A8 countries which was a problem but from Eastern Europe after Blair's failure to.impose transition controls in 2004
The A8 are the Eastern European countries. A15 are the original EU. The A2 are Romania and Bulgaria.
Yes sorry tried to change it but it is not allowing me to now. However the point remains there is still Eastern European migration which most Leavers want reduced over the next few years and that will be even more the case if the likes of Albania join the EU
In recent years population figures (and motivations) have been based on surveys at airports. Exit and entry numbers are likely to be a lot more accurate.
Yes but remember to save your bus fare home. On all known form, the boxer wins but he has not been in the ring for two years. But as expected, the money is starting to come back for Mayweather, and mine is included in that, and it is now generally 1/4 vs 7/2 (4/1 in a place).
Best to get on Mayweather now, before the big money buyer rush.
Yes but remember to save your bus fare home. On all known form, the boxer wins but he has not been in the ring for two years. But as expected, the money is starting to come back for Mayweather, and mine is included in that, and it is now generally 1/4 vs 7/2 (4/1 in a place).
Best to get on Mayweather now, before the big money buyer rush.
Don't want to sound like G Boycott, but "Lay the honky" is a good rule of thumb in these situations.
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
5% of what exactly? Of the value of the property? Of the land per se it sits on? Who values it? What's the appeals process How doe it work for flats? What about the 90 year old widow who's lived in a house for 50 years now worth a million quid because it was in a crap bit of town that's now trendy - any discount?
She has no right to that house. Millennials have a stronger claim on it. It should simply be confiscated.
A 5% tax would mean your house was taken from you by the state every 20 years.
What I find most interesting in relation to the immigration debate, as seen in the QT below, is that since Brexit even those who support the concept of immigration and free movement are now far more vocal about the pitfalls, the tensions and the consequences.
Are they getting it? Or are they being mealy mouthed? I don't know
Yes but remember to save your bus fare home. On all known form, the boxer wins but he has not been in the ring for two years. But as expected, the money is starting to come back for Mayweather, and mine is included in that, and it is now generally 1/4 vs 7/2 (4/1 in a place).
Best to get on Mayweather now, before the big money buyer rush.
Don't want to sound like G Boycott, but "Lay the honky" is a good rule of thumb in these situations.
IANAE but if the Irish chappy were a half-decent boxer would he not have made his money there in the first place?
Mayweather has won all his fights by punching people and in this one that's all they are allowed to do. It seems likely that even if the other feller succeeds in punching Mayweather once or twice, he'll have been punched a lot harder before, and won't much care. It seems unlikely that the reverse is true, i.e. that the beard has ever been punched as hard as Mayweather will punch him.
I would never bet on boxing because upsets happen - one lucky punch can settle a fight. But for Mayweather to lose, not only does the other guy have to be lucky enough to hit him, he has to be lucky enough to hit him in a way that sends him down.
Yes but remember to save your bus fare home. On all known form, the boxer wins but he has not been in the ring for two years. But as expected, the money is starting to come back for Mayweather, and mine is included in that, and it is now generally 1/4 vs 7/2 (4/1 in a place).
Best to get on Mayweather now, before the big money buyer rush.
Don't want to sound like G Boycott, but "Lay the honky" is a good rule of thumb in these situations.
IANAE but if the Irish chappy were a half-decent boxer would he not have made his money there in the first place?
Mayweather has won all his fights by punching people and in this one that's all they are allowed to do. It seems likely that even if the other feller succeeds in punching him once or twice he'll have been punched a lot harder before and won't much care. It seems unlikely that the reverse is true, i.e. that the beard has ever been punched as hard as Mayweather will punch him.
It feels less like a sports bet and more like a politics bet. Mayweather could trip and injure himself in the ring I guess or McGregor takes a dive after the bell goes in a round to get Mayweather DQed. But these are reasons for having the fight at 1-20/20-1 rather than the 1-1000 if it comes down to pure boxing ability.
Comments
I wonder how the figures actually break down. Are expats coming home? How many EU migrants are there? And how does the ‘mix’ compare with the figurtes for 2016?
Only 3/4 of this reporting period is post Brexit. The drop is due to a net reduction in EU migration, and a drop in non-EU students. I suspect both will drop further in subsequent quarters. Non EU immigration excluding students seems stable.
In some ways this report is more shocking:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/ukpopulationbycountryofbirthandnationality2016
28.2% of mothers born outside the UK. Rather generous of us to act as the world's maternity ward.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-one/11026562/How-Brighton-Pavilion-became-a-temporary-hospital-for-Indian-soldiers-in-WW1.html
I hope the kitchens are still as good at meeting dietary requirements.
Representatives need to learn that they're servants, not masters, of their people. This gives them immense responsibility, and not a little power. But the responsibility is far more important than the power.
Surely that title is held by Lord Whitty of Camberwell?
Might have to email him that link,,,,,
The EU will be better off without us, and in the greater scheme of things that's more important than saving us from our own folly, a task they were never obliged to undertake.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/23/pound-drops-to-lowest-level-since-2009-thanks-to-brexit-uncertainty-6872682/
Even more worrying..... WPP the worlds largest advertiser's shares fell 13% yesterday. Advertising is the best bellweather that there is. When the future looks bleak the first thing to cut is the ad budget.....
We're on our way to Hell in a handcart.....
So in the net figures Britons move abroad rather than expats return. This is based on the figures in table 7 rounded. It doesnt seem to add up to +246 000 net, I am not sure why.
The uncertainty will not last forever. The Battle of Britain this is not.
Mr. Punter, I agree with the implied suggestion that the EU will integrate more rapidly without us in it. However, I also think that may well hasten its disintegration, which will be a good thing. The longer the EU takes to crumble, the worse the ultimate result will be.
It is surely in the interest of all groups that capital is redistributed to the most efficient businesses.
Online advertising from the big two is surely hitting them, rather than Brexit?
Snow on the Today programme today seems to be getting the fact that the media and much of the metro elite live in a bubble.
How bad was 2009?
Newham is very interesting, it has both the highest international immigration (+31.9%), and the highest internal emmigration (-31.5%) AND the highest "natural" increase.
Like a giant airport arrival lounge and international maternity centre all rolled into one.
Overall: +17.4% (4/326)
International +31.9% (1/326)
Internal -31.5% (326/326)
Natural +16.9% (1/326)
One that British people can't wait to leave !
http://adage.com/article/agency-news/packaged-good-giants-culprits-wpp-s-growth-downgrade/310212/
Likewise concentrating medical services in fewer hospitals. If that means waiting a few stops extra on the Tube, it's not a real problem. If you're in Cumbria and that means an extra two hours' drive on rural roads that are prone to flash flooding (and there's no second route) that's an entirely different situation.
Exactly - its the US, China, Brazil & the Internet......
Indeed despite the hype about immigration and Brexit, many of the strongest areas for Leave were areas of declining population. Probably this is because economic prosperity, Remain voting and inward immigration are all positively correlated.
The reality is even with the ridiculous BBC move to Salford, the media is still totally bubblified. And Snow observation is still bullshit, as he is talking about not really realising what it is like in London slums, as he spends his days not reporting to the police women getting their heads smashed into car bonnets.
But in places like Stoke (which were big leave areas) have totally different look, feel and issues.
I try to avoid them, despite their proximity, but when I find myself there, Barking in particular, it is like being in a 3rd world country. I'd suggest any London PBers go to Barking for a day, or even just for an hour or two, better than me explaining. 15 mins from the City by c2c, you can easily escape.
Maybe the next PB drinks should be at The Barking Dog?
http://images.dailystar.co.uk/dynamic/1/photos/305000/620x/grimsby-388614.jpg
Time to replace the hated BTL stamp duty tax with a much fairer Land Value Tax.
It would make sense to roll in council tax while we're at it, too.
Start at 5%, perhaps, and then once asset bubble has popped we can reassess. We could even hand over responsibility for setting the rate to the BoE.
The right should embrace property taxes.
They are the future.
Hope you didn't have to evacuate to one of your other mansions via your private jet?
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g503771-d808807-Reviews-The_Barking_Dog-Barking_Greater_London_England.html
The two worst scored reviews I actually rather liked for the feel they gave of the place:
Over the occasions that I have drunk here, It is your typical weatherspoons. Good prices and decent meals.The location isn't the best and nor is the clientele. Not a place for taking someone on a date.
and
Mr noel mcloughney
ok..cheap drink. Pub full of white racists prattling on about Muslims and poles. But cheap beer and clean.
Cheap beer and clean? Suits me. Sign me up. I'm in.
So although the demographics living in an area might say x, people's experiences on the ground is that they go to work and find a significant proportion of their shift which used to be all locals i.e. more likely to be British and white, is now ZHC agency workers who are all foreign.
Also we known from research in places like Slough, nobody actually knows who lives a non-insiginficant proportion of homes due to subletting and slum landlords. There were complaints from locals that "all the foreigners were jumping the council house lists", and BBC did a special programme and found that wasn't true, it was infact that people were illegally subletting out their council houses and the council admitted they neither knew or had the resources to enforce this. But the locals weren't wrong to say their area had significantly changed.
I remain convinced that Brexiteers will accept their defeat with good grace at the end of the day. They need one last hurrah before accepting the inevitability of being part of a political Europe. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
What this means is that during a traffic spike in the bitcoin network, if you want to pay $3 for a coffee with bitcoin, you might have to pay an extra $3 or more just to get your transaction confirmed in a timely manner. The restaurant (or bar, or shop) could let you go before the transaction is confirmed, but then they take on the risk of selling their goods for IOUs.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kkd4d/heres-why-people-dont-buy-things-with-bitcoin
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2017/08/24/bookmakers-set-250-million-pay-out-conor-mcgregor-beats-floyd/
80% of all bets taken are on the Irishman, and he's 3/1 in from 10/1. Suggests, as we all know, that the real value is on the other side and the British bookies are trying to cover their arses.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3420245/Why-Boston-segregated-town-UK-Old-agricultural-industrial-heartlands-places-residents-live-parallel-lives.html
Disclaimer: I live in a private house, owned by me. Perhaps everyone on the thread discussing immigration could make a similar declaration, including second and third homes where applicable.
Plus I saw that documentary on Grimsby recently and they really do have hearts of gold so I have great confidence.
https://youtu.be/rK3JAL3hKRo
https://youtu.be/yuTMWgOduFM
The main point, however, is that a Brexit vote won't solve, and might arguably exacerbate the issue of non-EU immigration, which you have identified as being a big problem, if not for yourself.
An over estimate of 95%+ seems...big.
Thank goodness these estimates haven't been an element in national politics over the last few years.
The current crop, will remain useless, in their new jobs
What is interesting is the bookies talking about the number of bets rather than the totals staked. In the referendum, famously the bookies paid insufficient heed to the number of small bets for Brexit, where of course each punter has one vote regardless of stakes. Here, it is not as if all those 10-euro patriotic Irish punters can get in the ring alongside Conor.
The tenant, I suspect, will be the one who pays the cost, not the Landlord or Agent (- it will be remarkable how rents rise to cover the lost income to agents for the fees they charge as they are prevented from continuing the rip off they conduct at present).
Wouldn't surprise me if this goes up though. Like cigarette duties the balancing act is trying to raise revenues, change behaviour, but not change behaviour too much that the revenues disappear.
That's the beauty of being able to make up your own rules on immigration.
It's not non-EU immigration that people have a problem with, most people are ok with American, Japanese, Australian, Chinese, Indian etc. Obviously because they are more likely to integrate, work, pay tax, have low crime rates and in general aren't extremists.
Probably a good rule would be that immigration should be roughly equitable. So lot's people from Britain want to live in the US and vice versa. This shows that the countries are generally compatible. The problem comes when you have 50 times more coming one way than going the other.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32205970
In recent years population figures (and motivations) have been based on surveys at airports. Exit and entry numbers are likely to be a lot more accurate.
A 5% tax would mean your house was taken from you by the state every 20 years.
Are they getting it? Or are they being mealy mouthed? I don't know
Mayweather has won all his fights by punching people and in this one that's all they are allowed to do. It seems likely that even if the other feller succeeds in punching Mayweather once or twice, he'll have been punched a lot harder before, and won't much care. It seems unlikely that the reverse is true, i.e. that the beard has ever been punched as hard as Mayweather will punch him.
I would never bet on boxing because upsets happen - one lucky punch can settle a fight. But for Mayweather to lose, not only does the other guy have to be lucky enough to hit him, he has to be lucky enough to hit him in a way that sends him down.