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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This just possibly could be the moment for Yvette: A Labour

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  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    "When you think in ’97 Blair had David Miliband as his Head of Policy... and compare it with the calibre now iat’s frightening."

    Right, if only Labour had more of the genius of the man whose big idea was the personal carbon ration card they'd be doing great.
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    CNN tweet:

    "Deadline! Miranda lawyer says they'll file High Court claim Wednesday morning if Home Office/Met don't concede detention was illegal"

    I trust the Home Office refer Mr Miranda to the reply given in Arkel vs Pressdram.....



    Doesn't he know? It's not the US - we don't have Miranda Rights in this country...
  • In terms of internal Labour politics the key difference between EdM and Brown is that the latter had an extremely strong base in the party; one that he had spent years building and cultivating. Ed has nothing like that. In that sense he is vulnerable in a way that Brown never was. It probably is a long-shot, but I'd say that challenging Ed is far less daunting, less risky and more likely to succeed than any challenge aimed at Brown would have been.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    tim said:

    Ahh..lovely

    The whole Dave and Sam photo album.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10205119/David-and-Samantha-Camerons-holiday-album.html?frame=2648459

    But quick, you can't tell they are relaxing in a cafe, fetch a bottle of water and put it n front of them

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/20/david-cameron-cornwall-fourth-holiday

    That's better.

    But doesn't it piss off the local businesses when emmets bring their own refreshments and sit at your tables?

    tim said:

    Ahh..lovely

    The whole Dave and Sam photo album.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10205119/David-and-Samantha-Camerons-holiday-album.html?frame=2648459

    But quick, you can't tell they are relaxing in a cafe, fetch a bottle of water and put it n front of them

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/20/david-cameron-cornwall-fourth-holiday

    That's better.

    But doesn't it piss off the local businesses when emmets bring their own refreshments and sit at your tables?

    Cameron said he had enjoyed swimming in the sea, fishing for sea trout and horse-riding

    And has a GSOH?
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited August 2013

    CNN tweet:

    "Deadline! Miranda lawyer says they'll file High Court claim Wednesday morning if Home Office/Met don't concede detention was illegal"

    I trust the Home Office refer Mr Miranda to the reply given in Arkel vs Pressdram.....

    The CNN tweet is misleading. The deadline concerns whether an application will be made for interim relief, not whether the government concedes the claim.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    tim said:

    carl said:

    tim said:

    Ahh..lovely

    The whole Dave and Sam photo album.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10205119/David-and-Samantha-Camerons-holiday-album.html?frame=2648459

    But quick, you can't tell they are relaxing in a cafe, fetch a bottle of water and put it n front of them

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/20/david-cameron-cornwall-fourth-holiday

    That's better.

    But doesn't it piss off the local businesses when emmets bring their own refreshments and sit at your tables?

    tim said:

    Ahh..lovely

    The whole Dave and Sam photo album.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10205119/David-and-Samantha-Camerons-holiday-album.html?frame=2648459

    But quick, you can't tell they are relaxing in a cafe, fetch a bottle of water and put it n front of them

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/20/david-cameron-cornwall-fourth-holiday

    That's better.

    But doesn't it piss off the local businesses when emmets bring their own refreshments and sit at your tables?

    Cameron said he had enjoyed swimming in the sea, fishing for sea trout and horse-riding

    And has a GSOH?

    Horse riding with a protruding disc, he's just like Putin.
    Wonder whether the horse was fast, unpredictable, but great fun?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786

    In terms of internal Labour politics the key difference between EdM and Brown is that the latter had an extremely strong base in the party; one that he had spent years building and cultivating. Ed has nothing like that. In that sense he is vulnerable in a way that Brown never was. It probably is a long-shot, but I'd say that challenging Ed is far less daunting, less risky and more likely to succeed than any challenge aimed at Brown would have been.

    Going up against Brown would be like going up against Tywin Lannister... you win or you die.

    Ed is more Joffery...
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,953

    In terms of internal Labour politics the key difference between EdM and Brown is that the latter had an extremely strong base in the party; one that he had spent years building and cultivating. Ed has nothing like that. In that sense he is vulnerable in a way that Brown never was. It probably is a long-shot, but I'd say that challenging Ed is far less daunting, less risky and more likely to succeed than any challenge aimed at Brown would have been.

    That is true, and is the principal reason Brown never was challenged.

    It still begs the questions, 'who' and 'why now'?

    Btw, I'm not 100% confident about that one-third figure I gave earlier, which I was quoting from memory. It might be one-fifth (though that's still about 50 MPs who'd need to openly declare their support for a named candidate). I thought the distinction is between whether a leader is in office as against a casual vacancy; it might be in government / in opposition. I've not read them since before 2010, when it was last relevant. Perhaps someone with a detailed knowledge of these things could advise.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Wise words as usual SO, but couldn't the unions be called ed's 'power base?' (those unions that are affiliated, of course).

    Plus, would there be a backlash from the unions if Ed were to be deposed??
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @taffys

    Ed Miliband was supported by the trade unions because he wasnt David Miliband. I wouldnt describe the trade unions as his power base. (Not that I think they or anyone else will move against him.)
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    taffys said:

    Wise words as usual SO, but couldn't the unions be called ed's 'power base?' (those unions that are affiliated, of course).

    Plus, would there be a backlash from the unions if Ed were to be deposed??

    If Ed gets removed, what happens to his great union funding change plans?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2013
    taffys said:

    Wise words as usual SO, but couldn't the unions be called ed's 'power base?' (those unions that are affiliated, of course).

    Plus, would there be a backlash from the unions if Ed were to be deposed??

    I think the Unions were more averse to David Miliband becoming leader per se, rather than supportive of Ed. – If an alternative to Ed was more amicable to the Unions, that ‘power base’ could shift very quickly imo.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2013
    Ed Balls first tweet in nearly a month:
    Back to see Norwich goals from Sat - v promising start - and looks like Johan Elmander (@Elmander_9) signing from Galatasaray. #ncfc
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Oh the pasty. One can never ever tire of the pasty. I'll say one thing for Cameron, he's provided more amusement than any other recent PM.

    "I think the last one I bought was from the West Cornwall Pasty Company. I seem to remember I was in Leeds station at the time and the choice was whether to have one of their small ones or one of their large ones. I have got a feeling I opted for the large one, and very good it was too."

    Majestic.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    If, on the other hand, we are looking at a IDS scenario, the Howard figure is Harriet Harman. Those thinking that EdM won't see out the parliament could do worse than back her.

    "To date, the only Deputy Leaders who have gone on to become the Leader of the Labour Party are Clement Attlee and Michael Foot."

    Which would Harman be?
    Beckett?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    carl said:

    One can never ever tire of the pasty.

    That's definitely a matter of opinion. For me the pasty got a bit stale after the 1,000th mention.
  • tim said:

    carl said:

    tim said:

    carl said:

    tim said:

    Ahh..lovely

    The whole Dave and Sam photo album.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10205119/David-and-Samantha-Camerons-holiday-album.html?frame=2648459

    But quick, you can't tell they are relaxing in a cafe, fetch a bottle of water and put it n front of them

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/20/david-cameron-cornwall-fourth-holiday

    That's better.

    But doesn't it piss off the local businesses when emmets bring their own refreshments and sit at your tables?

    tim said:

    Ahh..lovely

    The whole Dave and Sam photo album.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10205119/David-and-Samantha-Camerons-holiday-album.html?frame=2648459

    But quick, you can't tell they are relaxing in a cafe, fetch a bottle of water and put it n front of them

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/20/david-cameron-cornwall-fourth-holiday

    That's better.

    But doesn't it piss off the local businesses when emmets bring their own refreshments and sit at your tables?

    Cameron said he had enjoyed swimming in the sea, fishing for sea trout and horse-riding

    And has a GSOH?

    Horse riding with a protruding disc, he's just like Putin.
    Wonder whether the horse was fast, unpredictable, but great fun?

    Or like the pasty, imaginary.
    @tim

    But Dave was correct on that occasion! "It was at Leeds station and it was a big one."

    He was right! Leeds station is very big - it's got 17 platforms!!!
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Ed Balls first tweet in nearly a month:
    Back to see Norwich goals from Sat - v promising start

    Very promising? I dont think Ed Balls can ever have been so wrong in so few characters before.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @tim

    Noone would want to deprive you of the therapy you derive from posting endlessly about other people's holidays.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    It's a bit long winded for the joke of the year award but the chap from the rightwing Centre for Policy Studies makes a good effort with this piece on Osborne's so-called "recovery":

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/10251112/This-might-not-be-a-recovery-but-a-good-old-fashioned-boom.html

    It's a boom! But never mind!

    You can tell the conservative movement is bang out of ideas on the economy. Desperation is the name of the game between now and May 2015.
  • Neil said:

    @tim

    Noone would want to deprive you of the therapy you derive from posting endlessly about other people's holidays.

    But Neil, I do feel that after 7,977 posts tim does deserve a holiday doesn't he?

    :)
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,953

    taffys said:

    Wise words as usual SO, but couldn't the unions be called ed's 'power base?' (those unions that are affiliated, of course).

    Plus, would there be a backlash from the unions if Ed were to be deposed??

    If Ed gets removed, what happens to his great union funding change plans?
    You can be reasonably confident that if there's a contested election where a third of the votes go to the unions, candidates won't be making much noise about union funding.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Next said:

    "The only realistic route is to try to create enough pressure on the leader that he'll feel obliged to stand down. Experience suggests that this ain't easy and can't be managed behind closed doors. "

    Perhaps they could post anonymous articles on political blogs?

    My lips are sealed on the identity of the author of this piece. It was a strict condition of PB having it.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Ed Balls first tweet in nearly a month:
    Back to see Norwich goals from Sat - v promising start - and looks like Johan Elmander (@Elmander_9) signing from Galatasaray. #ncfc

    He's got the metropolitan Green-tinged #OTBC vote sewn up.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    In terms of internal Labour politics the key difference between EdM and Brown is that the latter had an extremely strong base in the party; one that he had spent years building and cultivating. Ed has nothing like that. In that sense he is vulnerable in a way that Brown never was. It probably is a long-shot, but I'd say that challenging Ed is far less daunting, less risky and more likely to succeed than any challenge aimed at Brown would have been.

    I agree with that. It's easy for us Brown-dislikers to say "well, so and so was gutless not to challenge Brown for the leadership" but Brown's grip and reputation and sheer dominance of the party added to his very many supporters within it would've been extremely off-putting to any would-be challenger.

    It would've taken a very brave person to go in to Number 10 and tell him his time was up.

    The prospect of telling Ed Miliband the same is far less daunting.


  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    I will not have Ed Balls maligned for his choice of football team.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574
    tim said:

    Neil said:

    carl said:

    One can never ever tire of the pasty.

    That's definitely a matter of opinion. For me the pasty got a bit stale after the 1,000th mention.
    I hate people who take their own drinks into cafes on photoshoots.
    There's always a pair of them isn't there, putting businesses under taking up seats which people prepared to buy from the cafe are waiting for, drinking drinks their children or cameramen brought with them



    #Watergate
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Charles said:

    If, on the other hand, we are looking at a IDS scenario, the Howard figure is Harriet Harman. Those thinking that EdM won't see out the parliament could do worse than back her.

    "To date, the only Deputy Leaders who have gone on to become the Leader of the Labour Party are Clement Attlee and Michael Foot."

    Which would Harman be?
    Beckett?
    Beckett was only an interim leader while the leadership election was organised.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    taffys said:

    Wise words as usual SO, but couldn't the unions be called ed's 'power base?' (those unions that are affiliated, of course).

    Plus, would there be a backlash from the unions if Ed were to be deposed??

    If Ed gets removed, what happens to his great union funding change plans?
    You can be reasonably confident that if there's a contested election where a third of the votes go to the unions, candidates won't be making much noise about union funding.
    Nobody ever is going to propose changes to the relationship between the Labour party and the trade unions that the trade unions dont already support for the very simple reason that it wont get through without trade union backing.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    taffys said:

    Wise words as usual SO, but couldn't the unions be called ed's 'power base?' (those unions that are affiliated, of course).

    Plus, would there be a backlash from the unions if Ed were to be deposed??

    If Ed gets removed, what happens to his great union funding change plans?
    You can be reasonably confident that if there's a contested election where a third of the votes go to the unions, candidates won't be making much noise about union funding.
    All of which wouldn't look good, would it? If the union link thing was a bit of a nuisance for Ed Miliband, it would be a big liability for the next person.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited August 2013
    BenM said:

    It's a bit long winded for the joke of the year award but the chap from the rightwing Centre for Policy Studies makes a good effort with this piece on Osborne's so-called "recovery":

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/10251112/This-might-not-be-a-recovery-but-a-good-old-fashioned-boom.html

    It's a boom! But never mind!

    You can tell the conservative movement is bang out of ideas on the economy. Desperation is the name of the game between now and May 2015.

    You appear sleep deprived in your thinking, Ben.

    The summary of the article to which you link is set out in the first sentence of the fourth paragraph.

    The good news just keeps on coming.

    No whiff of desperation in the article at all. Perhaps it is the nappy which needs changing?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,343
    edited August 2013

    Beckett was only an interim leader while the leadership election was organised.

    I thought that at the time, the Labour party constitution simply stated that the deputy would become leader, with no mention of it being "interim".

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Pulpstar said:

    tim said:

    Neil said:

    carl said:

    One can never ever tire of the pasty.

    That's definitely a matter of opinion. For me the pasty got a bit stale after the 1,000th mention.
    I hate people who take their own drinks into cafes on photoshoots.
    There's always a pair of them isn't there, putting businesses under taking up seats which people prepared to buy from the cafe are waiting for, drinking drinks their children or cameramen brought with them



    #Watergate
    You win the Perrier award, Sir.

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,343
    tim said:

    Telegraph Politics ‏@TelePolitics 5m
    David Cameron accused of sanctioning arrest of Guardian journalist's partner David Miranda http://tgr.ph/14STb26

    There is a big difference between the PM and Home secretary being informed about an operation because it is likely to cause controversy, and "sanctioning" someone's arrest. Given that politicians will not normally get involved in operational issues, it seems reasonable that they are informed in this way and should let the police get on with it.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    If, on the other hand, we are looking at a IDS scenario, the Howard figure is Harriet Harman. Those thinking that EdM won't see out the parliament could do worse than back her.

    "To date, the only Deputy Leaders who have gone on to become the Leader of the Labour Party are Clement Attlee and Michael Foot."

    Which would Harman be?
    Beckett?
    Beckett was only an interim leader while the leadership election was organised.
    Still leader though /pedant
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    Fenster said:

    In terms of internal Labour politics the key difference between EdM and Brown is that the latter had an extremely strong base in the party; one that he had spent years building and cultivating. Ed has nothing like that. In that sense he is vulnerable in a way that Brown never was. It probably is a long-shot, but I'd say that challenging Ed is far less daunting, less risky and more likely to succeed than any challenge aimed at Brown would have been.

    I agree with that. It's easy for us Brown-dislikers to say "well, so and so was gutless not to challenge Brown for the leadership" but Brown's grip and reputation and sheer dominance of the party added to his very many supporters within it would've been extremely off-putting to any would-be challenger.

    It would've taken a very brave person to go in to Number 10 and tell him his time was up.

    The prospect of telling Ed Miliband the same is far less daunting.


    Well yes, Brown was a sociopathic psychopath with additional issues and a gang of thugs who thought it was a good idea to attack tory wives or anyone else who got in their way. Ed strikes me as a decent, well meaning, reasonably bright chap who is just a little out of his depth. Well more than a little but still a decent human being.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    Next said:

    "The only realistic route is to try to create enough pressure on the leader that he'll feel obliged to stand down. Experience suggests that this ain't easy and can't be managed behind closed doors. "

    Perhaps they could post anonymous articles on political blogs?

    My lips are sealed on the identity of the author of this piece. It was a strict condition of PB having it.

    You seem to have only partly explained the QTWTAIN tradition, as the thread title isn't phrased as a question, but the answer is still no.
  • BenM said:

    It's a bit long winded for the joke of the year award but the chap from the rightwing Centre for Policy Studies makes a good effort with this piece on Osborne's so-called "recovery":

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/10251112/This-might-not-be-a-recovery-but-a-good-old-fashioned-boom.html

    It's a boom! But never mind!

    You can tell the conservative movement is bang out of ideas on the economy. Desperation is the name of the game between now and May 2015.

    It looks like Avery has outed himself.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Next said:

    "The only realistic route is to try to create enough pressure on the leader that he'll feel obliged to stand down. Experience suggests that this ain't easy and can't be managed behind closed doors. "

    Perhaps they could post anonymous articles on political blogs?

    My lips are sealed on the identity of the author of this piece. It was a strict condition of PB having it.

    Just make sure you don't pass through Heathrow with the source identified on an encrypted flash stick.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    edited August 2013
    So far as the identity of the thread author is concerned we get name checks on Yvette, Andy and Chukka and fairly extravagent praise for Tom. Now who is missing that likes Tom? And Yvette. Especially Yvette.

    Hmmmm...
  • Is there a survey of how Yvette Cooper compares with Ed Miliband in the eyes of the public?

    She has a hectoring style which puts off many people although she has tried to suppress it more recently.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    DavidL said:

    So far as the identity of the thread author is concerned we get name checks on Yvette, Andy and Chukka and fairly extravagent praise for Tom. Now who is missing that likes Tom? And Yvette. Especially Yvette.

    Hmmmm...

    Vince Cable....?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    DavidL said:

    So far as the identity of the thread author is concerned we get name checks on Yvette, Andy and Chukka and fairly extravagent praise for Tom. Now who is missing that likes Tom? And Yvette. Especially Yvette.

    Hmmmm...

    Double hmm. And is clearly in the mood for some pot-stirring...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,794
    Labour on holiday - a charabanc ride in an Edsel.
  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    AveryLP said:

    Schards said:

    tim said:
    Am I right in thinking you can only do a debt for debt swap remortgage under Osborne's scheme so anyone "increasing their borrowing" can't use it? So it therefore, follows that Tim's post is nonsense.
    Schards

    The full terms and conditions being applied to Banks participating in the 2014 Help of Buy guarantee scheme have not been released by the government.

    My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the undisclosed guidelines constrain rather than prohibit an equity release element of a remortgage product. In other words, the Banks will have agreed in aggregrate to keep new equity release lending within prudential limits. This gives them the flexibility to allow it in for individual loans where circumstances justify.

    Funding for Lending, together with the various mortgage stimulus schemes and the restructuring of bank balance sheets, have reduced the average mortgage lending rate being offered to new customers. Many current mortgage holders will benefit by remortgaging at the new lower rates.They may even be able to reduce repayments and repayment risk further, and make their mortgages more resilient to future interest rate rises, by extending the terms of their existing loans. Small amounts of equity release may also be justifiable based on individual circumstances.

    In almost all cases of remortaging the economy benefits as money saved on paying interest rates becomes available for investment or consumption, thereby increasing demand and growth. For this reason there is nothing intrinsically 'wrong' with equity release loans provided its share of total lending doesn't lead it to having an inflationary effect on the economy.

    Thanks for that Avery

    The impression I have got from the industry is that remortgages are only part of this scheme to deal with the issue of "mortgage prisoners" who are trapped on a horrible rate and can't move because they have little equity. As such, I would be surprised if the final guidelines allow for equity release save for covering the costs of remortgaging and, perhaps redemption penalties.

    Either way, with rates reflecting a high equity mortgage and the mortgages having to be on a repayment basis, it takes a rather vivid imagination to forsee this option powering consumer spending in the coming years.
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited August 2013
    Did David Cameron authorise the detention of Mr Miranda? Per Lord Denning MR in Regina v Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis, Ex parte Blackburn [1968] 2 QB 118, at p. 136:
    I hold it to be the duty of the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis, as it is of every chief constable, to enforce the law of the land. He must take steps so to post his men that crimes may be detected; and that honest citizens may go about their affairs in peace. He must decide whether or no suspected persons are to be prosecuted; and, if need be, bring the prosecution or see that it is brought. But in all these things he is not the servant of anyone, save of the law itself. No Minister of the Crown can tell him that he must, or must not, keep observation on this place or that; or that he must, or must not, prosecute this man or that one. Nor can any police authority tell him so. The responsibility for law enforcement lies on him. He is answerable to the law and to the law alone. [My emphasis]
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    David Cameron accused of sanctioning arrest of Guardian journalist's partner David Miranda

    I didn't realise politicians were able to either sanction or unsanction the arrest of anybody.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192

    DavidL said:

    So far as the identity of the thread author is concerned we get name checks on Yvette, Andy and Chukka and fairly extravagent praise for Tom. Now who is missing that likes Tom? And Yvette. Especially Yvette.

    Hmmmm...

    Vince Cable....?
    He is not really a Labour insider anymore. More of a fellow traveller.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I think Life in a market town has just answered my question.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574
    taffys said:

    David Cameron accused of sanctioning arrest of Guardian journalist's partner David Miranda

    I didn't realise politicians were able to either sanction or unsanction the arrest of anybody.

    Politically it'd make no sense for him to take a stand any which way but loose on the matter.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    We can rule out IOS as author of today's piece. IOS would have included an algorithm for identifying the most likely next leader of the party.
  • taffys said:

    David Cameron accused of sanctioning arrest of Guardian journalist's partner David Miranda

    I didn't realise politicians were able to either sanction or unsanction the arrest of anybody.

    That never stopped folk accusing Labour of doing it.

  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    If, on the other hand, we are looking at a IDS scenario, the Howard figure is Harriet Harman. Those thinking that EdM won't see out the parliament could do worse than back her.

    "To date, the only Deputy Leaders who have gone on to become the Leader of the Labour Party are Clement Attlee and Michael Foot."

    Which would Harman be?
    Beckett?
    Beckett was only an interim leader while the leadership election was organised.
    Still leader though /pedant
    In the same way that Lady Jane Grey was Queen??

    :)
  • I think Mike wrote it - only kidding :)
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Politically it'd make no sense for him to take a stand any which way but loose on the matter.

    From what Life in a Market Town says, the whole notion of a PM 'sanctioning' an arrest is a false one emanating from one of those 'defense of the realm' type political thrillers.

    David Cameron has no sanction or authority on the matter whatsoever in law.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    So it looks like the police were telling the truth when they said a lawyer was present during the interview, with the caveat that they interviewed him for eight hours first and only let the lawyer in for the last hour before they released him...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I'm not going to speculate directly about the author, but there seems to me to be a fairly clear prime suspect.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    taffys said:

    David Cameron accused of sanctioning arrest of Guardian journalist's partner David Miranda

    I didn't realise politicians were able to either sanction or unsanction the arrest of anybody.

    That never stopped folk accusing Labour of doing it.

    Indeed but one of the people who used to rightly slap others down for suggesting that Labour was responsible in any way for the arrest of Damian Green is now reposting suggestions that Cameron was involved in this. Go figure.

  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    On thread yes please. Mrs Balls as Labour leader would ensure a Tory majority at the GE.

    Having just completed my first YouGov VI survey for weeks the Labour lead will probably jump to 10 this evening :)
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited August 2013
    Dear me, you work for a once-great newspaper, you hire a top lawyer, no doubt at ludicrously exorbitant cost, and you still get a grocer's apostrophe (para 7).
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    taffys said:

    David Cameron accused of sanctioning arrest of Guardian journalist's partner David Miranda

    I didn't realise politicians were able to either sanction or unsanction the arrest of anybody.

    Don't know if it makes any difference, but he was detained, not arrested.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    antifrank said:

    I'm not going to speculate directly about the author, but there seems to me to be a fairly clear prime suspect.

    Dan Hodges?!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Don't know who the author is - but 'I Write Like' says they write like Stephen King

    http://iwl.me
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    edited August 2013

    Don't know who the author is - but 'I Write Like' says they write like Stephen King

    http://iwl.me

    It's actually probably Steve Miliband the (even more) unfamous 3rd brother...
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    The key bits are the statement of facts:

    14. Our client assists Mr Greenwald in his legitimate journalistic work and was doing so when he was detained, pursuant to Schedule 7 powers.

    15. At that time, our client was travelling from Berlin to the couple's home in Rio di Janeiro via Heathrow Airport on 18 August 2013. During his trip to Berline, he visited Laura Poitras, a film-maker who has been working with Mr Greenwald. The Guardian paid for our client's flights because of the work he was doing with Mr Greenwald.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    Next said:

    "The only realistic route is to try to create enough pressure on the leader that he'll feel obliged to stand down. Experience suggests that this ain't easy and can't be managed behind closed doors. "

    Perhaps they could post anonymous articles on political blogs?

    My lips are sealed on the identity of the author of this piece. It was a strict condition of PB having it.

    Can you at least tell us whether "Labour" is a noun or a verb, and whether "insider" is one word or two?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    Quite an impressive letter but the idea that Miranda was not in the UK because he was in transit at Heathrow is a non starter. Similarly the proposition that these items were not seized according to law is clearly incorrect to the extent that they have the right to seize and hold items for a period of 7 days as the letter itself points out.

    Whether Schedule 7 is compatible with the ECHR is a much more complicated question.

    If the memory sticks contain secret documents or even disclose the whereabouts of those documents and files Mr Miranda is in trouble and it seems likely to me that the response to the letter will be a warrant. It is time for the grandchildren of Bletchely Park to do their stuff.
  • Don't know who the author is - but 'I Write Like' says they write like Stephen King

    http://iwl.me

    It's actually probably Steve Miliband the (even more) unfamous 3rd brother...
    He's quite the joker isn't he?

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited August 2013
    Neil said:

    We can rule out IOS as author of today's piece. IOS would have included an algorithm for identifying the most likely next leader of the party.

    Could be IOS's "boss" Chilon.

    He has form.

    Good form.

  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    DavidL said:

    If the memory sticks contain secret documents or even disclose the whereabouts of those documents and files Mr Miranda is in trouble and it seems likely to me that the response to the letter will be a warrant. It is time for the grandchildren of Bletchely Park to do their stuff.

    In respect of the demand for the return of the seized items, I imagine the horse has already not only bolted but is grazing peacably in Virginia.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited August 2013
    DavidL said:

    Quite an impressive letter but the idea that Miranda was not in the UK because he was in transit at Heathrow is a non starter. Similarly the proposition that these items were not seized according to law is clearly incorrect to the extent that they have the right to seize and hold items for a period of 7 days as the letter itself points out.

    Whether Schedule 7 is compatible with the ECHR is a much more complicated question.

    If the memory sticks contain secret documents or even disclose the whereabouts of those documents and files Mr Miranda is in trouble and it seems likely to me that the response to the letter will be a warrant. It is time for the grandchildren of Bletchely Park to do their stuff.
    Miranda might get his two DVDs back.

    They were.

    1. The Oath (2010).

    Tells the story of two men whose fateful encounter in 1996 set them on a course of events that led them to Afghanistan, Osama bin Laden, 9/11, Guantanamo, and the U.S. Supreme Court.

    Director: Laura Poitras
    Stars: Osama bin Laden, Salim Hamdan, Abu Jandal


    2. My Country, My Country (2006).

    The director follows a Sunni Arab doctor as he prepares to run for the early 2005 elections in Iraq.

    Director: Laura Poitras
    Stars: Dr. Riyadh, Aaron Castle, Scott Farren-Price


    No doubt a gift from his host in Berlin.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    DavidL said:

    If the memory sticks contain secret documents or even disclose the whereabouts of those documents and files Mr Miranda is in trouble and it seems likely to me that the response to the letter will be a warrant. It is time for the grandchildren of Bletchely Park to do their stuff.

    In respect of the demand for the return of the seized items, I imagine the horse has already not only bolted but is grazing peacably in Virginia.
    Yeah, you'd think if they were going to be able to crack the encryption they'd have done it by now. But I suppose it's just possible they need a few more days to put a huge cluster to work brute-forcing the keys to reveal the 256-bit AES-encrypted picture of Glenn Greenwald's arse or whatever it is they put on the memory stick they gave to the bloke they knew would be going through airport security.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Dear me, you work for a once-great newspaper, you hire a top lawyer, no doubt at ludicrously exorbitant cost, and you still get a grocer's apostrophe (para 7).
    Twitter has already picked up on that....

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Dear me, you work for a once-great newspaper, you hire a top lawyer, no doubt at ludicrously exorbitant cost, and you still get a grocer's apostrophe (para 7).
    It's on holiday from paragraph 38.
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    antifrank said:

    Dear me, you work for a once-great newspaper, you hire a top lawyer, no doubt at ludicrously exorbitant cost, and you still get a grocer's apostrophe (para 7).
    It's on holiday from paragraph 38.
    Oh, so there are two paragraph's that are wrong then.
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    antifrank said:

    It's on holiday from paragraph 38.

    You're the kind of lawyer I like!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,423
    It all sounds a bit far-feched to me, but with the Prime Minister apparently ordering the arrest of someones boy-friend, we do live in strange times...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709
    @DamienSurvation I'm sure @LadPolitics are glad of the biz but replacing Ed Miliband with most popular alternative (David) added only 1% to LAB VI with us...
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    tim said:

    Neil said:

    taffys said:

    David Cameron accused of sanctioning arrest of Guardian journalist's partner David Miranda

    I didn't realise politicians were able to either sanction or unsanction the arrest of anybody.

    That never stopped folk accusing Labour of doing it.

    Indeed but one of the people who used to rightly slap others down for suggesting that Labour was responsible in any way for the arrest of Damian Green is now reposting suggestions that Cameron was involved in this. Go figure.

    I don't think for one minute Cameron ordered the detention as the PB Tories used to claim "New Labour had Damian Green arrested".
    I never said you did - I said you were "reposting suggestions that Cameron was involved". You often do things that you criticise others for doing. You're very hypocritical that way.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Dear me, you work for a once-great newspaper, you hire a top lawyer, no doubt at ludicrously exorbitant cost, and you still get a grocer's apostrophe (para 7).
    The drafting solicitor must have been educated at Dulwich College.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    antifrank said:

    Dear me, you work for a once-great newspaper, you hire a top lawyer, no doubt at ludicrously exorbitant cost, and you still get a grocer's apostrophe (para 7).
    It's on holiday from paragraph 38.
    I think Mrs May may take offence:

    60 b) Please confirm ho authorised the use of Section 7.....

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    For anyone interested this is the decision of Lord Bannantyne in the legal challenge to fees for Employment Tribunals. He refused the application for any interim order but the Government gave a UK wide undertaking that if the order is found to be incompetent then they will refund all of the fees charged with interest.

    Lord Bannantyne did find that there was a prima facie case that the order was incompetent and has fixed a full hearing.
    http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2013CSOH133.html?utm_source=Newsletters&utm_campaign=9b0ba3b7b5-SLN_20_08_13&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1eedb22a32-9b0ba3b7b5-65388281
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    AveryLP said:

    Dear me, you work for a once-great newspaper, you hire a top lawyer, no doubt at ludicrously exorbitant cost, and you still get a grocer's apostrophe (para 7).
    The drafting solicitor must have been educated at Dulwich College.

    Cheeky git - my old man went there...!
  • Bindmans have an illustrious reputation, they were involved in this case, which had a lot of implications

    The Employment Appeal Tribunal has ruled that £200,000-a-year stripper Nadine Quashie was an employee of Stringfellows club, paving the way for her unfair dismissal claim against the club.

    http://www.thelawyer.com/eat-rules-in-favour-of-stripper-in-stringfellows-dispute/1012355.article
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @TheScreamingEagles - So the case turned on the legal validity of the zero-pants contract?
  • @TheScreamingEagles - So the case turned on the legal validity of the zero-pants contract?

    Heh, yes it did.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192

    Bindmans have an illustrious reputation, they were involved in this case, which had a lot of implications

    The Employment Appeal Tribunal has ruled that £200,000-a-year stripper Nadine Quashie was an employee of Stringfellows club, paving the way for her unfair dismissal claim against the club.

    http://www.thelawyer.com/eat-rules-in-favour-of-stripper-in-stringfellows-dispute/1012355.article

    I love the first comment on that article. I once represented an establishment offering rather more basic services and established that the women there were self-employed and that the establishment did not have to pay VAT on their earnings.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    In fairness to Bindmans, it's not always easy picking up every typo in a lengthy letter produced at high speed. The letter is clear enough.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited August 2013

    AveryLP said:

    Dear me, you work for a once-great newspaper, you hire a top lawyer, no doubt at ludicrously exorbitant cost, and you still get a grocer's apostrophe (para 7).
    The drafting solicitor must have been educated at Dulwich College.

    Cheeky git - my old man went there...!
    I trust you got the reference to Alan Sked's criticism of Nigel Farage:

    Is Farage a sort of British Ron Paul? “No, I think Ron Paul is more educated,” replies Sked. “Farage never went to university. When he was candidate in the very beginning in the 1990s he used to stick things through letter boxes with stuff he kind of wrote himself. And I used to get these letters from party headquarters: ‘I am very glad your candidate in Salisbury believes in education but until he learns how to spell it I am not voting for him.’ Two or three letters insinuated that Farage’s command of English was not very good. I took him to my office and tried to explain to him English grammar and spelling. For about two hours I tried to tell him the difference between ‘it’s’, with an apostrophe, and ‘its’, without an apostrophe.”

    No offence intended to either Dulwich College or your father! Every school has "it's disappointments".
  • Having been exiled to Norfolk and then tortured with a replacement bus service for the past 48 hours, I've not been able to follow this Miranda story, but is this summary correct, the arms of the state detained someone purely on the basis that they were the partner of a journalist that has written damaging stories about the conducts of this government and the US government, and the US government was warned in advance of this detention?

    Because that is worrying.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Strong rumour that Spurs have accepted £93m plus Fabio Coentrao for Bale.

    That is insane. Just mental. Astonishingly good business for Spurs. Ninety three million?! What's going on with football?
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    Having been exiled to Norfolk and then tortured with a replacement bus service for the past 48 hours, I've not been able to follow this Miranda story, but is this summary correct, the arms of the state detained someone purely on the basis that they were the partner of a journalist that has written damaging stories about the conducts of this government and the US government, and the US government was warned in advance of this detention?

    Because that is worrying.

    I think the state's response would be that this person had confidential materials useful to terrorists, and that the Police detained and questioned him under the Law.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Having been exiled to Norfolk and then tortured with a replacement bus service for the past 48 hours, I've not been able to follow this Miranda story, but is this summary correct, the arms of the state detained someone purely on the basis that they were the partner of a journalist that has written damaging stories about the conducts of this government and the US government, and the US government was warned in advance of this detention?

    Because that is worrying.

    Not sure how much is controversial but Guido says:

    "It has since emerged that Miranda was carrying sensitive information from one of Greenwald’s contacts, something which was not mentioned in the initial Guardian report. Miranda says he did not know anything about the contents of the documents but was simply transporting them for Greenwald."
  • Next/Grandiose

    Thanks.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Having been exiled to Norfolk and then tortured with a replacement bus service for the past 48 hours, I've not been able to follow this Miranda story, but is this summary correct, the arms of the state detained someone purely on the basis that they were the partner of a journalist that has written damaging stories about the conducts of this government and the US government, and the US government was warned in advance of this detention?

    Because that is worrying.

    Not "just the partner" but, by his own solicitor's claim as fact, working with the journalist with travel expenses paid by the journalist's employer.

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2013
    @AveryLP - “I trust you got the reference to Alan Sked's criticism of Nigel Farage:”

    Mist it completely – and no offence taken ;-)
  • I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of the Miranda story, but I'm unhappy with the fact that anti-terrorism laws get used in such a vague manner, seemingly as punishment for Snowden.. If this happened under New Labour, PB would rightly be in uproar. What happened to Clegg's bonfire, his great repeal bill? This government is just as bad as Labour, Christ knows why the two main parties evoke so much tribalism on here. You need to have a word with yourselves.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,953
    Fenster said:

    In terms of internal Labour politics the key difference between EdM and Brown is that the latter had an extremely strong base in the party; one that he had spent years building and cultivating. Ed has nothing like that. In that sense he is vulnerable in a way that Brown never was. It probably is a long-shot, but I'd say that challenging Ed is far less daunting, less risky and more likely to succeed than any challenge aimed at Brown would have been.

    I agree with that. It's easy for us Brown-dislikers to say "well, so and so was gutless not to challenge Brown for the leadership" but Brown's grip and reputation and sheer dominance of the party added to his very many supporters within it would've been extremely off-putting to any would-be challenger.

    It would've taken a very brave person to go in to Number 10 and tell him his time was up.

    The prospect of telling Ed Miliband the same is far less daunting.
    Telling them is one thing. For them to then accept that their time was up and fall on their sword is quite another.

    Man in grey suit: "We think it's time for you to go, prime minister"
    Leader: "Do you?"
    Man in grey suit: "Yes. You've lost our confidence."
    Leader: "You and whose army?"
    Man in grey suit: "Lots of us. Really."
    Leader: "Well, thanks for your thoughts but I'm staying. See yourself out."
    Man in grey suit: "Oh." Looks at his shoes. Shuffles off.

    It only becomes different if the MPs are prepared to *publicly* tell the leader that it's time to go. But that only works because it undermines his position so as to make it untenable. It also inflicts a great deal of damage on the party in question so it's really a big game of chicken; one which the leader usually wins.
  • AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    Dear me, you work for a once-great newspaper, you hire a top lawyer, no doubt at ludicrously exorbitant cost, and you still get a grocer's apostrophe (para 7).
    The drafting solicitor must have been educated at Dulwich College.

    Cheeky git - my old man went there...!
    I trust you got the reference to Alan Sked's criticism of Nigel Farage:

    Is Farage a sort of British Ron Paul? “No, I think Ron Paul is more educated,” replies Sked. “Farage never went to university. When he was candidate in the very beginning in the 1990s he used to stick things through letter boxes with stuff he kind of wrote himself. And I used to get these letters from party headquarters: ‘I am very glad your candidate in Salisbury believes in education but until he learns how to spell it I am not voting for him.’ Two or three letters insinuated that Farage’s command of English was not very good. I took him to my office and tried to explain to him English grammar and spelling. For about two hours I tried to tell him the difference between ‘it’s’, with an apostrophe, and ‘its’, without an apostrophe.”

    No offence intended to either Dulwich College or your father! Every school has "it's disappointments".
    P.G.Woodehouse , also of Dulwich College , never went to University . Sked really is a prize ass.

This discussion has been closed.