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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The August 2017 silly season continues – Ladbrokes now taking bets on “the Democrats” for the next General Election

Love the fonts, @jameschappers. Top is clearly Seventies porn movie title. Bottom is Atari c. 1986? pic.twitter.com/uAK7zKxGEt

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tlg86

First - unlike The UnDemocrats...

Alistair

https://twitter.com/Merck/status/897065338566791169

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280

SouthamObserver

Chapman - an old Fleet Street hand who knows how things work - has used August to create a debate and set an agenda. He's succeeded and good on him. He has absolutely no intention of forming a new political party.

Richard_Nabavi

I wonder whether the Electoral Commission would even allow 'The Democrats' as a party name. They might take the view that it 'is likely to result in voters confusing it with another party', and unlike the Liberal Party, there's no historic reason to permit it.

619

Alistair said:

https://twitter.com/Merck/status/897065338566791169

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280

PRESIDENTIAL

Takes time to condemn him, not the neo nazis again

DeClare

Irony seems lost on some people.
'The Democrats' want to remain in the EU despite the people's wish to leave it as democratically expressed in the referendum last year.
So 'The Democrats' start a new party with the intention of overturning the people's wishes.

619

a 'good man'

https://twitter.com/emmaroller/status/897099601542512640

Mortimer

SouthamObserver said:

Chapman - an old Fleet Street hand who knows how things work - has used August to create a debate and set an agenda. He's succeeded and good on him. He has absolutely no intention of forming a new political party.

Has he? Everyone I know is either on or talking about holidays.

Most hilarious thing for me is that people have clearly put money on the Democrats. Would be even more hilarious if the LD price drifted....

Morris_Dancer

Mildly amused they're shorter than UKIP.

TOPPING

DeClare said:

Irony seems lost on some people.
'The Democrats' want to remain in the EU despite the people's wish to leave it as democratically expressed in the referendum last year.
So 'The Democrats' start a new party with the intention of overturning the people's wishes.

It is every political party's aim to overturn the wishes of the electorate if the electorate didn't vote them into power last time round.

not_on_fire

Mortimer said:

SouthamObserver said:

Chapman - an old Fleet Street hand who knows how things work - has used August to create a debate and set an agenda. He's succeeded and good on him. He has absolutely no intention of forming a new political party.

Has he? Everyone I know is either on or talking about holidays.

Most hilarious thing for me is that people have clearly put money on the Democrats. Would be even more hilarious if the LD price drifted....

Perhaps the Lib Dems will merge with the Democrats and become the Liberal Democrats Democrats

GeoffM

619 said:

Alistair said:

twitter.com/Merck/status/897065338566791169

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280

PRESIDENTIAL

Takes time to condemn him, not the neo nazis again

Ken Frazier is one of those directly responsible for the opioid epidemic in the US which kills tens of thousands a year.

He's going all SJW against a bloke who from later, calmer reports, might just have lost control of his car when surrounded by a mob.

No loss to the President's advisory board.

williamglenn

TOPPING said:

DeClare said:

Irony seems lost on some people.
'The Democrats' want to remain in the EU despite the people's wish to leave it as democratically expressed in the referendum last year.
So 'The Democrats' start a new party with the intention of overturning the people's wishes.

It is every political party's aim to overturn the wishes of the electorate if the electorate didn't vote them into power last time round.

The real irony is that the Brexiteers went into the referendum expecting to have to fight a rearguard action to ensure that the result was 'not as binding as people would like', and now instead find themselves arguing the precious opposite.

freetochoose

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

GeoffM

Richard_Nabavi said:

I wonder whether the Electoral Commission would even allow 'The Democrats' as a party name. They might take the view that it 'is likely to result in voters confusing it with another party', and unlike the Liberal Party, there's no historic reason to permit it.

Well the Liberal Democrats aren't using the Democrat part of that name at the moment. Or the Liberal bit either.

Maybe some imaginative franchise deal can be worked out? Hand the names over for a decade.

A bit of welcome income for the Lxxxxxx Dxxxxxxxx to replace the now-spent donation from fraudster Michael Brown?

Charles

GeoffM said:

619 said:

Alistair said:

twitter.com/Merck/status/897065338566791169

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280

PRESIDENTIAL

Takes time to condemn him, not the neo nazis again

Ken Frazier is one of those directly responsible for the opioid epidemic in the US which kills tens of thousands a year.

He's going all SJW against a bloke who from later, calmer reports, might just have lost control of his car when surrounded by a mob.

No loss to the President's advisory board.

Not sure about that? I'd blame Purdue and Endo above everyone else. Don't recall Merck having much in the way of an opioids business?

GeoffM

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

Then it'll be ... Best of 5?

Alistair

GeoffM said:

619 said:

Alistair said:

twitter.com/Merck/status/897065338566791169

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280

PRESIDENTIAL

Takes time to condemn him, not the neo nazis again

Ken Frazier is one of those directly responsible for the opioid epidemic in the US which kills tens of thousands a year.

He's going all SJW against a bloke who from later, calmer reports, might just have lost control of his car when surrounded by a mob.

No loss to the President's advisory board.

Lost control of his car when surrounded by a mob? It's on video tape. You can see what actually happened. He speeds in a straight line down a crowded street at people with his backs to him.

Morris_Dancer

Once the enormo-haddock and octo-lemur command the levers of power, both sides will be happy. Remainers will be glad human voters can't get in the way of politics, Leavers will be glad we'll never be run by Brussels.

GeoffM

Charles said:

GeoffM said:

619 said:

Alistair said:

twitter.com/Merck/status/897065338566791169

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280

PRESIDENTIAL

Takes time to condemn him, not the neo nazis again

Ken Frazier is one of those directly responsible for the opioid epidemic in the US which kills tens of thousands a year.

He's going all SJW against a bloke who from later, calmer reports, might just have lost control of his car when surrounded by a mob.

No loss to the President's advisory board.

Not sure about that? I'd blame Purdue and Endo above everyone else. Don't recall Merck having much in the way of an opioids business?

I entirely defer to your greater knowledge on that, Charles.

It's more of a general anti-Big Pharma point.

williamglenn

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

GeoffM

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

Rock, Paper, Scissors then?

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Glenn, Pyrrhus was a pretty good leader, to be honest. On the other hand, the EU isn't Rome (despite their little fantasies).

David_Evershed

Is the Democrat slogan Divide and Rule?

Divide the Remain supporters and let Brexit rule.

Do they not realise the Lib Dems already are a Stop Brexit party?

freetochoose

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

It wasn't a Pryrrhic victory, I campaigned to Leave the EU and that's exactly what is happening.

You can whine like a little girl all you like but eventually you'll have to come to terms with it.

Re your opening statement: Leave WON, Remain LOST, it couldn't be more straightforward.

williamglenn

freetochoose said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

It wasn't a Pryrrhic victory, I campaigned to Leave the EU and that's exactly what is happening.

You can whine like a little girl all you like but eventually you'll have to come to terms with it.

Re your opening statement: Leave WON, Remain LOST, it couldn't be more straightforward.

And now only 28% of the UK population think the UK is going in the right direction. The long term implications for the future of your 'victory' are bleak.

felix

OT. Apparently he is tweeting about returning some lost marbles to the Greeks. Tongue in cheek?

David_Evershed

not_on_fire said:

Mortimer said:

SouthamObserver said:

Chapman - an old Fleet Street hand who knows how things work - has used August to create a debate and set an agenda. He's succeeded and good on him. He has absolutely no intention of forming a new political party.

Has he? Everyone I know is either on or talking about holidays.

Most hilarious thing for me is that people have clearly put money on the Democrats. Would be even more hilarious if the LD price drifted....

Perhaps the Lib Dems will merge with the Democrats and become the Liberal Democrats Democrats

Liberal Democrats squared (I don't know how to show a raised little 2)

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Felix, the maxim about not feeding trolls springs to mind.

ThreeQuidder

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost.

No, it's a referendum that was won and lost. And you lost.

rural_voter

A more effective way to Remain in the EU would be for a long list of 'celebrities', starting with Jeremy C, but there are lots more, to come out as Euro-philes or -federalists and point to the idiocy and contradictions of Brexit.

It includes a lack of anything on the ballot paper about which year we are to return to.

pre-1960 (when the UK set up EFTA, i.e. economic)
pre-1957 (EEC/Treaty of Rome, i.e. political)
pre-1939 (UK struggles to remain world no. 2)
pre-1914 (Britannia rules the waves, this side of the Atlantic anyway)?

Without further information, the only contract with the voters was to take them back to 1972, i.e. to leave the EU/EEC and stay in/rejoin anything that preceded that. I'm surprised Gina Miller hasn't already consulted her lawyers.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Voter, that'd be counter-productive (the celebrity aspect, at least). Having a load of millionaires line up on one side against a democratic result would not be a good look.

ThreeQuidder

rural_voter said:

A more effective way to Remain in the EU would be for a long list of 'celebrities', starting with Jeremy C, but there are lots more, to come out as Euro-philes or -federalists and point to the idiocy and contradictions of Brexit.

It includes a lack of anything on the ballot paper about which year we are to return to.

pre-1960 (when the UK set up EFTA, i.e. economic)
pre-1957 (EEC/Treaty of Rome, i.e. political)
pre-1939 (UK struggles to remain world no. 2)
pre-1914 (Britannia rules the waves, this side of the Atlantic anyway)?

Pre-1992, when what we voted for in 1975 changed.

GeoffM

rural_voter said:

A more effective way to Remain in the EU would be for a long list of 'celebrities', starting with Jeremy C, but there are lots more, to come out as Euro-philes or -federalists and point to the idiocy and contradictions of Brexit.

It includes a lack of anything on the ballot paper about which year we are to return to.

pre-1960 (when the UK set up EFTA, i.e. economic)
pre-1957 (EEC/Treaty of Rome, i.e. political)
pre-1939 (UK struggles to remain world no. 2)
pre-1914 (Britannia rules the waves, this side of the Atlantic anyway)?

Without further information, the only contract with the voters was to take them back to 1972, i.e. to leave the EU/EEC and stay in/rejoin anything that preceded that. I'm surprised Gina Miller hasn't already consulted her lawyers.

I voted for pre-1832.

That's where the rot started.

GeoffM

.

GeoffM

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Voter, that'd be counter-productive (the celebrity aspect, at least). Having a load of millionaires line up on one side against a democratic result would not be a good look.

The attempts by Hillary to use "stars" to talk down to the little people contributed to her loss.

freetochoose

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

It wasn't a Pryrrhic victory, I campaigned to Leave the EU and that's exactly what is happening.

You can whine like a little girl all you like but eventually you'll have to come to terms with it.

Re your opening statement: Leave WON, Remain LOST, it couldn't be more straightforward.

And now only 28% of the UK population think the UK is going in the right direction. The long term implications for the future of your 'victory' are bleak.

Deary me, you really are a bundle of fun aren't you. The vast majority of people are simply getting on with their lives, you are in a tiny minority who believes that bleating on the internet to a few dozen people actually changes anything.

As others have pointed out - YOU LOST, get over it man, there is nothing you can do.

isam

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Sean_F

rural_voter said:

A more effective way to Remain in the EU would be for a long list of 'celebrities', starting with Jeremy C, but there are lots more, to come out as Euro-philes or -federalists and point to the idiocy and contradictions of Brexit.

It includes a lack of anything on the ballot paper about which year we are to return to.

pre-1960 (when the UK set up EFTA, i.e. economic)
pre-1957 (EEC/Treaty of Rome, i.e. political)
pre-1939 (UK struggles to remain world no. 2)
pre-1914 (Britannia rules the waves, this side of the Atlantic anyway)?

Without further information, the only contract with the voters was to take them back to 1972, i.e. to leave the EU/EEC and stay in/rejoin anything that preceded that. I'm surprised Gina Miller hasn't already consulted her lawyers.

That's a good idea. May I suggest:-

1. Eddie Izzard
2. Bob Geldof
3. Alistair Campbell
4. Alan Sugar
5. Billy Bragg.

GeoffM

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Everyone must have prizes for taking part *group hug*

Said no real winner, ever.

isam

SouthamObserver said:

Chapman - an old Fleet Street hand who knows how things work - has used August to create a debate and set an agenda. He's succeeded and good on him. He has absolutely no intention of forming a new political party.

Relaxing holiday away from social media and petty political squabbling?

williamglenn

It needs some mea culpas from prominent Brexiteers.

- I thought the EU was weak and feeble but it's strong and stable
- I thought that trade deals would be easy but they're hard
- I thought the EU was irrelevant but it's proven it's not
- I thought the EU was insular but it's taking a lead globally
- I thought nobody really supported the EU but they do
- I thought that Ireland would follow us out but it won't

GeoffM

Sean_F said:

rural_voter said:

A more effective way to Remain in the EU would be for a long list of 'celebrities', starting with Jeremy C, but there are lots more, to come out as Euro-philes or -federalists and point to the idiocy and contradictions of Brexit.

It includes a lack of anything on the ballot paper about which year we are to return to.

pre-1960 (when the UK set up EFTA, i.e. economic)
pre-1957 (EEC/Treaty of Rome, i.e. political)
pre-1939 (UK struggles to remain world no. 2)
pre-1914 (Britannia rules the waves, this side of the Atlantic anyway)?

Without further information, the only contract with the voters was to take them back to 1972, i.e. to leave the EU/EEC and stay in/rejoin anything that preceded that. I'm surprised Gina Miller hasn't already consulted her lawyers.

That's a good idea. May I suggest:-

1. Eddie Izzard
2. Bob Geldof
3. Alistair Campbell
4. Alan Sugar
5. Billy Bragg.

Who was the fat sweaty "comedian" who was boffing Katy Perry?
He's an arse. Add him to that list.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. M, yeah. If they'd inverted the approach and said "On polling day, we're all equal" etc and emphasised they were the same as others, rather than going with the "For one day, you can be a little bit like the superheroes we're paid millions of dollars to pretend to be..." line, it might've worked.

williamglenn

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

GeoffM

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Absolutely the opposite.

I'm counting down the seconds until we're out.

591 days 19 hours, 18 minutes 25 seconds.

freetochoose

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

I think this needs clarification, Leavers are absolutely delighted we had a referendum and even more delighted we voted to Leave.

I'm afraid that if you won't or can't understand that you're in denial.

TOPPING

GeoffM said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Absolutely the opposite.

I'm counting down the seconds until we're out.

591 days 19 hours, 18 minutes 25 seconds.

There's only one countdown that matters:

11 days 11 hours 13 mins 20 seconds

(btw I thought you didn't live in this country?)

AlastairMeeks

I've seen more tempting longshot bets.

Ishmael_Z

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Indeed. In so-called "winning" they have merely fallen into the cunning trap set for them by Remain.

isam

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Haha! You really do seem beyond help

isam

AlastairMeeks said:

I've seen more tempting longshot bets.

It's a much shorter price that the whole thing is a wind up

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Meeks, Perez was 200/1 to win in Azerbaijan. Came damned close too, but for Ocon being stupid (I had a few pounds on).

williamglenn

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Indeed. In so-called "winning" they have merely fallen into the cunning trap set for them by Remain.

If only. They fell into a trap set by themselves.

freetochoose

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Indeed. In so-called "winning" they have merely fallen into the cunning trap set for them by Remain.

Smiley face!!!

JosiasJessop

TOPPING said:

GeoffM said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Absolutely the opposite.

I'm counting down the seconds until we're out.

591 days 19 hours, 18 minutes 25 seconds.

There's only one countdown that matters:

11 days 11 hours 13 mins 20 seconds
(Snip)

Nah, there's only one countdown that matters: ~35 minutes until the next SpaceX launch. Watch it live here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLxWsYx8dbo

Nigelb

GeoffM said:

Charles said:

GeoffM said:

619 said:

Alistair said:

twitter.com/Merck/status/897065338566791169

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280

PRESIDENTIAL

Takes time to condemn him, not the neo nazis again

Ken Frazier is one of those directly responsible for the opioid epidemic in the US which kills tens of thousands a year.

He's going all SJW against a bloke who from later, calmer reports, might just have lost control of his car when surrounded by a mob.

No loss to the President's advisory board.

Not sure about that? I'd blame Purdue and Endo above everyone else. Don't recall Merck having much in the way of an opioids business?

I entirely defer to your greater knowledge on that, Charles.

It's more of a general anti-Big Pharma point.

So you're with the president in calling for cheaper opioids then ?
Or would you just prefer a world without pharmaceutical development ?

And btw, the 'bloke' has been charged with murder, according to later, calmer reports.

DavidL

I don't think I would fancy 200/1 for the Democrats having an MP after the next election but "most MPs"? Ladbrokes are having a laugh.

Charles

GeoffM said:

Sean_F said:

rural_voter said:

A more effective way to Remain in the EU would be for a long list of 'celebrities', starting with Jeremy C, but there are lots more, to come out as Euro-philes or -federalists and point to the idiocy and contradictions of Brexit.

It includes a lack of anything on the ballot paper about which year we are to return to.

pre-1960 (when the UK set up EFTA, i.e. economic)
pre-1957 (EEC/Treaty of Rome, i.e. political)
pre-1939 (UK struggles to remain world no. 2)
pre-1914 (Britannia rules the waves, this side of the Atlantic anyway)?

Without further information, the only contract with the voters was to take them back to 1972, i.e. to leave the EU/EEC and stay in/rejoin anything that preceded that. I'm surprised Gina Miller hasn't already consulted her lawyers.

That's a good idea. May I suggest:-

1. Eddie Izzard
2. Bob Geldof
3. Alistair Campbell
4. Alan Sugar
5. Billy Bragg.

Who was the fat sweaty "comedian" who was boffing Katy Perry?
He's an arse. Add him to that list.

Jonathan

A new party is probably more likely to gain most seats than the dead LDs and the deader UKIP.

Sean_F

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Indeed. In so-called "winning" they have merely fallen into the cunning trap set for them by Remain.

It's like one of Baldrick's cunning plans.

Charles

Jonathan said:

A new party is probably more likely to gain most seats than the dead LDs and the deader UKIP.

What would @shadsy quote on the Democrats having more seats than UKIP + LibDems?

I think you can reasonably assume that UKIP is zero (possibly a very long-shot). So effectively it's a bet on the Democrats outperforming the LibDems. Maybe 100/1 ? (NB: speculation, not an offer)

Casino_Royale

I wish The Democrats all the luck in the world.

Anything that strips votes from Labour/LDs aids Tory holds at the next GE.

Delicious.

Casino_Royale

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

GE2017 truly was a disaster. May really did need that 60-80 majority to make it stick.

ThreeQuidder

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which means we Leave with no deal. That being the consequence, are the "vested interests" still going to vote that way?

williamglenn

Casino_Royale said:

I wish The Democrats all the luck in the world.

Anything that strips votes from Labour/LDs aids Tory holds at the next GE.

Delicious.

The Democrats will be taking votes from the kind of people who wanted to vote for the coalition in 2015, while the Tories will be left with the 4 million who voted for UKIP. Be careful what you wish for.

freetochoose

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

I wish The Democrats all the luck in the world.

Anything that strips votes from Labour/LDs aids Tory holds at the next GE.

Delicious.

The Democrats will be taking votes from the kind of people who wanted to vote for the coalition in 2015, while the Tories will be left with the 4 million who voted for UKIP. Be careful what you wish for.

Out of curiosity, how many people wanted to vote for a coalition?

I assume you really mean people who voted Lib Dem ie not very many.

619

GeoffM said:

619 said:

Alistair said:

twitter.com/Merck/status/897065338566791169

twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/897079051277537280

PRESIDENTIAL

Takes time to condemn him, not the neo nazis again

Ken Frazier is one of those directly responsible for the opioid epidemic in the US which kills tens of thousands a year.

He's going all SJW against a bloke who from later, calmer reports, might just have lost control of his car when surrounded by a mob.

No loss to the President's advisory board.

What? You want to defend the crazy Nazis who murder people?

Who are you going to believe, Alex Jones or your own lying eyes?

Essexit

SouthamObserver said:

Chapman - an old Fleet Street hand who knows how things work - has used August to create a debate and set an agenda. He's succeeded and good on him. He has absolutely no intention of forming a new political party.

Correction: he's picked the time of year when nothing else is happening to make a tit of himself.

Casino_Royale

ThreeQuidder said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which means we Leave with no deal. That being the consequence, are the "vested interests" still going to vote that way?

Labour will to bring down the Government, and cause a crisis. Corbynists because they'll pick up a purely independent UK and pin all the blame on the Tories. The ultra-Remainers because it will discredit Brexit and aid reaccession, one day.

On the Tory side, the ultras who don't want to pay a penny to Brussels and don't care (or even see as a problem) no deal might also vote it down.

It doesn't take many to defeat HMG.

DavidL

Essexit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Chapman - an old Fleet Street hand who knows how things work - has used August to create a debate and set an agenda. He's succeeded and good on him. He has absolutely no intention of forming a new political party.

Correction: he's picked the time of year when nothing else is happening to make a tit of himself.

More of an arse going by the pictures.

Casino_Royale

williamglenn said:

Casino_Royale said:

I wish The Democrats all the luck in the world.

Anything that strips votes from Labour/LDs aids Tory holds at the next GE.

Delicious.

The Democrats will be taking votes from the kind of people who wanted to vote for the coalition in 2015, while the Tories will be left with the 4 million who voted for UKIP. Be careful what you wish for.

Lol.

RoyalBlue

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

GE2017 truly was a disaster. May really did need that 60-80 majority to make it stick.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)?

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place. As the only one available will be agreed by Barnier and Davis, that is what we'll get.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

ThreeQuidder

Casino_Royale said:

ThreeQuidder said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which means we Leave with no deal. That being the consequence, are the "vested interests" still going to vote that way?

Labour will to bring down the Government, and cause a crisis.

It might cause a crisis, but it wouldn't bring down the government. FTPA still applies.

williamglenn

RoyalBlue said:

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election.

The reverse is (also) true. If they fail to find a way to exit from Brexit they will be annihilated at the next election.

They are in a terrible place.

Ally_B

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)? If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Very few of them are going to vote for the kind of Brexit that will be on offer at the end of this protracted process. The Brexit the Tories will deliver will be toxic to their poll chances for years to come. I expect the Commons will vote down the eventual agreement but we'll avoid the hard Brexit by having an election and withdrawing Article 50. (Can't be done? Watch this space in a couple of years!)

RoyalBlue

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election.

The reverse is (also) true. If they fail to find a way to exit from Brexit they will be annihilated at the next election.

They are in a terrible place.

Rubbish. 75% of current Tory supporters are Brexiteers; if half walk away, the party will suffer a bigger defeat than 1997. If half the Tory Remainers walk away the party will lose, but it will clearly be strong enough to fight another day.

ThreeQuidder

Ally_B said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)? If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Very few of them are going to vote for the kind of Brexit that will be on offer at the end of this protracted process.

I hate to keep repeating myself, but the Commons gets to choose only between the negotiated deal and Leaving with no deal at all.

Everything else in your comment is pure wishful thinking.

williamglenn

RoyalBlue said:

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election.

The reverse is (also) true. If they fail to find a way to exit from Brexit they will be annihilated at the next election.

They are in a terrible place.

Rubbish. 75% of current Tory supporters are Brexiteers; if half walk away, the party will suffer a bigger defeat than 1997. If half the Tory Remainers walk away the party will lose, but it will clearly be strong enough to fight another day.

Why do you think delivering Brexit will prevent voters who currently support Brexit from walking away from the ensuing mess? They won't be forgiving if it doesn't turn out the way they currently expect it to.

RoyalBlue

Ally_B said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)? If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Very few of them are going to vote for the kind of Brexit that will be on offer at the end of this protracted process. The Brexit the Tories will deliver will be toxic to their poll chances for years to come. I expect the Commons will vote down the eventual agreement but we'll avoid the hard Brexit by having an election and withdrawing Article 50. (Can't be done? Watch this space in a couple of years!)

I don't think you understand. The British people instructed their elected representatives to take us out of the EU. Provided that is done, the instruction has been executed. Most people are not exercised by the hard/soft debate; however, they will certainly notice if after voting to leave, their representatives countermand the instruction.

Labour would not win 40% of the vote if they lost every Labour Leaver. There will be no second referendum because it would destroy the Tory Party.

welshowl

JosiasJessop said:

TOPPING said:

GeoffM said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Absolutely the opposite.

I'm counting down the seconds until we're out.

591 days 19 hours, 18 minutes 25 seconds.

There's only one countdown that matters:

11 days 11 hours 13 mins 20 seconds
(Snip)

Nah, there's only one countdown that matters: ~35 minutes until the next SpaceX launch. Watch it live here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLxWsYx8dbo

Wow. Just saw that launch and then they put the first stage, after separation, back on the launch pad from over 100kms up (right back where it started on a sixpence!!). Amazing.

williamglenn

RoyalBlue said:

Ally_B said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)? If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Very few of them are going to vote for the kind of Brexit that will be on offer at the end of this protracted process. The Brexit the Tories will deliver will be toxic to their poll chances for years to come. I expect the Commons will vote down the eventual agreement but we'll avoid the hard Brexit by having an election and withdrawing Article 50. (Can't be done? Watch this space in a couple of years!)

I don't think you understand. The British people instructed their elected representatives to take us out of the EU. Provided that is done, the instruction has been executed.

And if it is a disastrous national humiliation, the electorate, whatever their prior view, will not deliver a thank you note.

RoyalBlue

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election.

The reverse is (also) true. If they fail to find a way to exit from Brexit they will be annihilated at the next election.

They are in a terrible place.

Rubbish. 75% of current Tory supporters are Brexiteers; if half walk away, the party will suffer a bigger defeat than 1997. If half the Tory Remainers walk away the party will lose, but it will clearly be strong enough to fight another day.

Why do you think delivering Brexit will prevent voters who currently support Brexit from walking away from the ensuing mess? They won't be forgiving if it doesn't turn out the way they currently expect it to.

I don't think you're the sort of person in a position to tell me how Leavers 'really' think.

No Brexit means Labour landslide with Corbyn as PM. It won't happen.

Alanbrooke

Ally_B said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)? If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Very few of them are going to vote for the kind of Brexit that will be on offer at the end of this protracted process. The Brexit the Tories will deliver will be toxic to their poll chances for years to come. I expect the Commons will vote down the eventual agreement but we'll avoid the hard Brexit by having an election and withdrawing Article 50. (Can't be done? Watch this space in a couple of years!)

chortle

because even now in Brussels theyre preparing to slaughter the fatted calf as the prodigal returns

grow up

PeterC

Ally_B said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)? If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Very few of them are going to vote for the kind of Brexit that will be on offer at the end of this protracted process. The Brexit the Tories will deliver will be toxic to their poll chances for years to come. I expect the Commons will vote down the eventual agreement but we'll avoid the hard Brexit by having an election and withdrawing Article 50. (Can't be done? Watch this space in a couple of years!)

But will there be a majority for an election? Will there be a majority for legislation to revoke A50? If there is no majority for anything at all I think we simply cease to be a member of the EU after March 2019.

AnneJGP

JosiasJessop said:

(snip)

Nah, there's only one countdown that matters: ~35 minutes until the next SpaceX launch. Watch it live here:
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLxWsYx8dbo

Thanks so much for posting these links. Always fascinating, and beautiful too.

Good evening everybody. I'm still behind the sofa where politics is concerned.

ThreeQuidder

PeterC said:

Ally_B said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)? If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Very few of them are going to vote for the kind of Brexit that will be on offer at the end of this protracted process. The Brexit the Tories will deliver will be toxic to their poll chances for years to come. I expect the Commons will vote down the eventual agreement but we'll avoid the hard Brexit by having an election and withdrawing Article 50. (Can't be done? Watch this space in a couple of years!)

But will there be a majority for an election? Will there be a majority for legislation to revoke A50? If there is no majority for anything at all I think we simply cease to be a member of the EU after March 2019.

Absolutely. If nothing is agreed, we leave at the end of March 2019 with no deal at all.

dixiedean

Jeff Sessions, no less, has an opinion on Charlottesville murder.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/politics/domestic-terrorism-sessions.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

williamglenn

RoyalBlue said:

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election.

The reverse is (also) true. If they fail to find a way to exit from Brexit they will be annihilated at the next election.

They are in a terrible place.

Rubbish. 75% of current Tory supporters are Brexiteers; if half walk away, the party will suffer a bigger defeat than 1997. If half the Tory Remainers walk away the party will lose, but it will clearly be strong enough to fight another day.

Why do you think delivering Brexit will prevent voters who currently support Brexit from walking away from the ensuing mess? They won't be forgiving if it doesn't turn out the way they currently expect it to.

I don't think you're the sort of person in a position to tell me how Leavers 'really' think.

No Brexit means Labour landslide with Corbyn as PM. It won't happen.

Why do you think Labour got over 40% in the last election? The same would happen in reverse if Corbyn ever looked like winning a landslide. It would become a binary choice between him and the most credible opponent - whether that is the Conservatives or the Democrats.

The Conservatives will get crushed if they do not become the party of Remain in time, but they have been too completely infiltrated by hardcore Eurosceptic fruitcakes to realise it.

Dura_Ace

williamglenn said:

And if it is a disastrous national humiliation, the electorate, whatever their prior view, will not deliver a thank you note.

One thing is for sure; the leave voting Morlocks won't be holding themselves responsible for the inevitable consequences. (Remainers are Eloi in this analogy)

ThreeQuidder

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election.

The reverse is (also) true. If they fail to find a way to exit from Brexit they will be annihilated at the next election.

They are in a terrible place.

Rubbish. 75% of current Tory supporters are Brexiteers; if half walk away, the party will suffer a bigger defeat than 1997. If half the Tory Remainers walk away the party will lose, but it will clearly be strong enough to fight another day.

Why do you think delivering Brexit will prevent voters who currently support Brexit from walking away from the ensuing mess? They won't be forgiving if it doesn't turn out the way they currently expect it to.

I don't think you're the sort of person in a position to tell me how Leavers 'really' think.

No Brexit means Labour landslide with Corbyn as PM. It won't happen.

Why do you think Labour got over 40% in the last election? The same would happen in reverse if Corbyn ever looked like winning a landslide. It would become a binary choice between him and the most credible opponent - whether that is the Conservatives or the Democrats.

The Conservatives will get crushed if they do not become the party of Remain in time, but they have been too completely infiltrated by hardcore Eurosceptic fruitcakes to realise it.

William, dear, there is no Remain any more. It's Stay Out or Rejoin.

RoyalBlue

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

williamglenn said:

RoyalBlue said:

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election.

The reverse is (also) true. If they fail to find a way to exit from Brexit they will be annihilated at the next election.

They are in a terrible place.

Rubbish. 75% of current Tory supporters are Brexiteers; if half walk away, the party will suffer a bigger defeat than 1997. If half the Tory Remainers walk away the party will lose, but it will clearly be strong enough to fight another day.

Why do you think delivering Brexit will prevent voters who currently support Brexit from walking away from the ensuing mess? They won't be forgiving if it doesn't turn out the way they currently expect it to.

I don't think you're the sort of person in a position to tell me how Leavers 'really' think.

No Brexit means Labour landslide with Corbyn as PM. It won't happen.

Why do you think Labour got over 40% in the last election? The same would happen in reverse if Corbyn ever looked like winning a landslide. It would become a binary choice between him and the most credible opponent - whether that is the Conservatives or the Democrats.

The Conservatives will get crushed if they do not become the party of Remain in time, but they have been too completely infiltrated by hardcore Eurosceptic fruitcakes to realise it.

There is literally no point engaging with you. I won't make that mistake again.

Casino_Royale

Ally_B said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)? If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Very few of them are going to vote for the kind of Brexit that will be on offer at the end of this protracted process. The Brexit the Tories will deliver will be toxic to their poll chances for years to come. I expect the Commons will vote down the eventual agreement but we'll avoid the hard Brexit by having an election and withdrawing Article 50. (Can't be done? Watch this space in a couple of years!)

This is also wrong.

RoyalBlue

Dura_Ace said:

williamglenn said:

And if it is a disastrous national humiliation, the electorate, whatever their prior view, will not deliver a thank you note.

One thing is for sure; the leave voting Morlocks won't be holding themselves responsible for the inevitable consequences. (Remainers are Eloi in this analogy)

Perhaps we will be driven into a rage and come out to devour the Eloi even in the daytime!

Casino_Royale

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

GE2017 truly was a disaster. May really did need that 60-80 majority to make it stick.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)?

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place. As the only one available will be agreed by Barnier and Davis, that is what we'll get.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Rees Mogg et al may vote it down due to the bill.

RoyalBlue

Casino_Royale said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

GE2017 truly was a disaster. May really did need that 60-80 majority to make it stick.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)?

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place. As the only one available will be agreed by Barnier and Davis, that is what we'll get.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Rees Mogg et al may vote it down due to the bill.

If you have believed for years that it is in our national interest to leave the EU, why endanger it with a vote that may scupper the whole process? I don't believe he, Cash or any of the others would do it. They would never be forgiven.

Casino_Royale

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

GE2017 truly was a disaster. May really did need that 60-80 majority to make it stick.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)?

If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place. As the only one available will be agreed by Barnier and Davis, that is what we'll get.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Rees Mogg et al may vote it down due to the bill.

If you have believed for years that it is in our national interest to leave the EU, why endanger it with a vote that may scupper the whole process? I don't believe he, Cash or any of the others would do it. They would never be forgiven.

They might see it as guaranteeing a full hard Brexit with no bill.

stevef

Oh the irony! If they were Democrats, they would accept the result of the referendum.

williamglenn

Casino_Royale said:

Ally_B said:

RoyalBlue said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sort of on-topic: I'm increasingly unconfident about any Brexit bill passing the HoC.

There are too many people on both sides who have a vested interest in voting it down.

Which Tory MPs have a 'vested interest' in opposing the bill (Clarke and Soubry aside)? If the Tories fail to deliver some kind of Brexit, they will be annihilated at the next election. They know that, hence some kind of Brexit will take place.

The interests of the Tory Party will take us out of the EU. Let's also remember the handful of Labour leavers who I expect to abstain on the final vote.

Very few of them are going to vote for the kind of Brexit that will be on offer at the end of this protracted process. The Brexit the Tories will deliver will be toxic to their poll chances for years to come. I expect the Commons will vote down the eventual agreement but we'll avoid the hard Brexit by having an election and withdrawing Article 50. (Can't be done? Watch this space in a couple of years!)

This is also wrong.

It's wrong because there will be deep political consequences well before the final deal sees the light of day as news of the various compromises comes out. The UK that votes on the deal will be a different place to the UK we're living in today.

Ishmael_Z

welshowl said:

JosiasJessop said:

TOPPING said:

GeoffM said:

williamglenn said:

isam said:

williamglenn said:

freetochoose said:

I'm considering campaigning for a second referendum, the reaction of the Remainers when they lose for the second time would be priceless.

This is not a football match that was won or lost. Brexit negotiations are currently taking place in the real world, and there are real world choices and consequences. You'd do better to face up to them instead of gloating about a Pyrrhic victory scored against your perceived enemies.

When people lose they often try to say there are no winners or losers

Oh but there are losers. Brexit and the Brexiteers have been found out by contact with reality. How they must wish they never got their referendum.

Absolutely the opposite.

I'm counting down the seconds until we're out.

591 days 19 hours, 18 minutes 25 seconds.

There's only one countdown that matters:

11 days 11 hours 13 mins 20 seconds
(Snip)

Nah, there's only one countdown that matters: ~35 minutes until the next SpaceX launch. Watch it live here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLxWsYx8dbo

Wow. Just saw that launch and then they put the first stage, after separation, back on the launch pad from over 100kms up (right back where it started on a sixpence!!). Amazing.

That is insanely awesome. Take off to first stage landing is just 8 minutes, 23.30 to 31.30. Everyone should watch it, it'll make you feel much better about everything.