Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Two thirds of Britons want other parties included in the Brexi

2

Comments

  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited July 2017
    surbiton said:

    So your opt-out is that you did not use the word "mastermind". We heard nothing but how Corbyn and McDonnell were friends of terrorists. Maybe, their street cred even went up.

    Of course, two month is a long time in politics. The fulsome praise heaped upon Corbyn by May in the 5 Live interview was mind blowing ! This guy was a terrorist lover only a few weeks back !

    He has always been a terrorist sympathiser, albeit less so than the truly vile McDonnell. However, as I clearly said before, one of the big errors of the Conservative campaign was not to attack Labour's manifesto sufficiently vigorously, or indeed really much at all. A lot of voters seem to have got the idea that it was some kind of harmless, possibly even vaguely credible, programme. The attacks on it never came.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    Mr. Pulpstar, fair enough.
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,284

    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
    It was the day when the Eurosceptic cancer metastasised within its Conservative host.

    Not joining the Euro may have seemed like the painless option, but it fostered too many political illusions and set us on the slow path to the catastrophe of Brexit.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,856
    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    marke09 said:

    Elgin City North (Moray) result: CON: 40.0% (+7.0) SNP: 38.8% (+6.1) LAB: 15.8% (+3.8) IND: 5.4% (-16.9) Con GAIN from Independent.

    I know many think only Labour can gain from the SNP in future elections with the tories maxed out. I agree Labour have more potential gains but the Tories could easily get 5/6 more as well. Also of course Labour gains from the SNP don't really alter the overall H/C arithmetic.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    Miss Vance, you know Mr Surbiton would never be into anything rood.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    On the contrary, it was a good election result. Ideally the Tories another dozen down and LDs a dozen up, but a good one that forces the government to listen. May has a tin ear though, so needs to go.

    You are one of the many making the error of thinking that the nature of Brexit is somehow determinable by an internal British debate. This is one of the most bizarre, and bizarrely widespread, errors of current politics.
    I don't think that. I think that hard WTO Brexit is nailed on, and soft Brexit a delusion. If the opposition parties were to be part of the process then they would see it too.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,284

    On the contrary, it was a good election result. Ideally the Tories another dozen down and LDs a dozen up, but a good one that forces the government to listen. May has a tin ear though, so needs to go.

    You are one of the many making the error of thinking that the nature of Brexit is somehow determinable by an internal British debate. This is one of the most bizarre, and bizarrely widespread, errors of current politics.
    I don't think that. I think that hard WTO Brexit is nailed on, and soft Brexit a delusion. If the opposition parties were to be part of the process then they would see it too.
    I think this is wrong. Brussels Brexit will prove to be unpalatable and Westminster will spit it our rather than grin and bear it.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For temperature, 16=61 and 28=82, once you know that you can pretty much interpolate. Driving abroad I no longer translate distances, I just treat all the numbers as miles and find that journeys go pleasingly quickly, though caution is required over speed limits.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
    Black Wednesday only happened because Major's government "talked the pound up" to £1=DM2.95. Clearly, the Tories wanted to lower inflationary pressures. They should have instead gone for £1=DM2.60 or such like and we could have had a permanent or, at least, a long term trade advantage.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited July 2017

    I don't think that. I think that hard WTO Brexit is nailed on, and soft Brexit a delusion. If the opposition parties were to be part of the process then they would see it too.

    Now I'm even more puzzled by your position. If a hard WTO Brexit is going to happen anyway, the effect of the election is that the government might be forced into a corner where we end up making concessions (especially on the exit bill) and then get nothing in return.

    You are also missing the political reality of opposition, which is that several of the opposition parties, including Labour and the SNP, simply want to cause mischief in the hope of toppling the government in chaos. They are perfectly happy for Brexit to be as disastrous as possible if it furthers that aim, and the election result has strengthened their capability to be wreckers.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    I don't think that. I think that hard WTO Brexit is nailed on, and soft Brexit a delusion. If the opposition parties were to be part of the process then they would see it too.

    Now I'm even more puzzled by your position. If a hard WTO Brexit is going to happen anyway, the effect of the election is that the government might be forced into a corner where we end up making concessions (especially on the exit bill) and then get nothing in return.

    You are also missing the political reality of opposition, which is that several of the opposition parties, including Labour and the SNP, simply want to cause mischief in the hope of toppling the government in chaos. They are perfectly happy for Brexit to be as disastrous as possible if it further that aim, and the election result has strengthened their capability to be wreckers.
    No concessions are needed for WTO Brexit, just some preparations. It is the only solution that we can choose.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,284
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
    Black Wednesday only happened because Major's government "talked the pound up" to £1=DM2.95. Clearly, the Tories wanted to lower inflationary pressures. They should have instead gone for £1=DM2.60 or such like and we could have had a permanent or, at least, a long term trade advantage.
    If we hit parity with the Euro it could be the opportune moment to join... :)
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Ishmael_Z said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For temperature, 16=61 and 28=82, once you know that you can pretty much interpolate. Driving abroad I no longer translate distances, I just treat all the numbers as miles and find that journeys go pleasingly quickly, though caution is required over speed limits.
    Many roads in Ireland used to show distances in miles and speed limits in kilometres ! I do not want to write anything more on this.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
    Black Wednesday only happened because Major's government "talked the pound up" to £1=DM2.95. Clearly, the Tories wanted to lower inflationary pressures. They should have instead gone for £1=DM2.60 or such like and we could have had a permanent or, at least, a long term trade advantage.
    If we hit parity with the Euro it could be the opportune moment to join... :)
    When people go on about the Euro imploding, £1 = € would be the same as £1 = DM 1.95.

    It would have been unthinkable in 1992. So far has the pound sunk and some people are worried about the Euro ?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126
    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    Then you should sack your proof reader.
    :smile:
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    No concessions are needed for WTO Brexit, just some preparations. It is the only solution that we can choose.

    Quite so, but what happens if parliament votes for concessions which then produce nothing? We've even more stuffed than we would otherwise have been. Even if the opposition parties were sincere (ha ha!), you can't negotiate effectively by unilaterally passing parliamentary resolutions, you have to sit in a smoke-free room with the other side and trade concessions for something you want in return. That's why Theresa May was quite right to say that a larger majority would have strengthened her hand, and why it is such a disaster that she didn't get it. We've lost time and credibility, weakened ourselves, and left the EU27 unsure who exactly they are negotiating with and whether the PM can make any deal stick. The disaster really is unmitigated.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,845

    Any poll result such as this cannot be trusted., who knows what weightings are being used and indeed if they are correct.

    YouGov have published their weightings, and included in the link above.
    I did this Yougov, there were a number of other Brexit related questions, and on voting reform. We may just be able to squeeze in an AV thread in amongst the Leave/Remain brickbats.
    There's an AV thread written and waiting to be published.

    I think it will go up either Sunday or Monday.
    My voting preferences: (1) Sunday (2) Monday.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    I don't think that. I think that hard WTO Brexit is nailed on, and soft Brexit a delusion. If the opposition parties were to be part of the process then they would see it too.

    Now I'm even more puzzled by your position. If a hard WTO Brexit is going to happen anyway, the effect of the election is that the government might be forced into a corner where we end up making concessions (especially on the exit bill) and then get nothing in return.

    You are also missing the political reality of opposition, which is that several of the opposition parties, including Labour and the SNP, simply want to cause mischief in the hope of toppling the government in chaos. They are perfectly happy for Brexit to be as disastrous as possible if it further that aim, and the election result has strengthened their capability to be wreckers.
    No concessions are needed for WTO Brexit, just some preparations. It is the only solution that we can choose.
    Yes, it could be the "walk away" option. However, I cannot accept that the EU then will just forget about the sums they believe we owe them as if nothing ahs happened.

    Probably, what will happen is that it will remain an "open" condition for us ever to have any sort of trade agreement in the future. So as afar as the EU is concerned , we will indeed be at the back of the queue !
  • Options
    scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    felix

    BUT based on the Elgin result (which was better for the SNP than the general election) the tide is already starting to flow the other way. So prepared for SNP gains from narrow Tory majorities.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Bracketing together two wildly different options is statistical shenanigans.

    A consultation and on equal basis to the government are hugely different.

    F1: just checked the timings and Bottas topped both sessions, with tiny leads over Hamilton. Got to say, if Bottas beats Hamilton this weekend I'd be rather pleased.

    Are Ferrari putting a new engine in tomorrow, Mr.D. ? (I seem to remember they have an upgrade due.)
    Might make qualifying rather close if so.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,845

    On the contrary, it was a good election result. Ideally the Tories another dozen down and LDs a dozen up, but a good one that forces the government to listen. May has a tin ear though, so needs to go.

    You are one of the many making the error of thinking that the nature of Brexit is somehow determinable by an internal British debate. This is one of the most bizarre, and bizarrely widespread, errors of current politics.
    I don't think that. I think that hard WTO Brexit is nailed on, and soft Brexit a delusion. If the opposition parties were to be part of the process then they would see it too.
    That's too absolute. We'll agree SOMETHING with the EU. We could if we are prepared to compromise and also sell the proposition to the EU agree quite a bit.

    Better than nothing but less than what we have already is a big and open negotiating space.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
    Black Wednesday only happened because Major's government "talked the pound up" to £1=DM2.95. Clearly, the Tories wanted to lower inflationary pressures. They should have instead gone for £1=DM2.60 or such like and we could have had a permanent or, at least, a long term trade advantage.
    If we hit parity with the Euro it could be the opportune moment to join... :)
    Two problems. One is that the media and a lot of politicians see the pound's strength as a sort of national virility symbol, so they'd want to lock us in to too high a rate. The second is there are quite a few on the right who see a high exchange rate as a bulwark against inflation, so they'd want to lock us into the wrong rate as well.
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,819
    edited July 2017
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,284

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
    Black Wednesday only happened because Major's government "talked the pound up" to £1=DM2.95. Clearly, the Tories wanted to lower inflationary pressures. They should have instead gone for £1=DM2.60 or such like and we could have had a permanent or, at least, a long term trade advantage.
    If we hit parity with the Euro it could be the opportune moment to join... :)
    Two problems. One is that the media and a lot of politicians see the pound's strength as a sort of national virility symbol, so they'd want to lock us in to too high a rate. The second is there are quite a few on the right who see a high exchange rate as a bulwark against inflation, so they'd want to lock us into the wrong rate as well.
    One factor that might be a consideration these days is wage arbitrage. If we joined at a relatively low level it would reduce incentives for people in low wage jobs to migrate.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    Mr. B, not sure. Read somewhere Sainz is on his 4th MGU-H and someone else, maybe Raikkonen, is on his 4th engine.

    Bit surprised that Raikkonen's odds for pole have drifted to 34, given he was third in second practice.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    scotslass said:

    felix

    BUT based on the Elgin result (which was better for the SNP than the general election) the tide is already starting to flow the other way. So prepared for SNP gains from narrow Tory majorities.

    The bigger swing was to the Tories - which is astonishing given the current news background. The SNP are truly stuffed my friend.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,579
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    A big advantage of metric is the interchangeability of litres and kgs for most routine substances, very useful when cooking.

    Metric temperature measurements beat F hands down; not only is the 0-100 freeze-boil scale easy to understand, but weatherwise below 0 is freezing, single digits is cold, 10s is cool, 20s is warm and 30s is hot. 40 or more, don't go out. What more can you need?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited July 2017

    No concessions are needed for WTO Brexit, just some preparations. It is the only solution that we can choose.

    Quite so, but what happens if parliament votes for concessions which then produce nothing? We've even more stuffed than we would otherwise have been. Even if the opposition parties were sincere (ha ha!), you can't negotiate effectively by unilaterally passing parliamentary resolutions, you have to sit in a smoke-free room with the other side and trade concessions for something you want in return. That's why Theresa May was quite right to say that a larger majority would have strengthened her hand, and why it is such a disaster that she didn't get it. We've lost time and credibility, weakened ourselves, and left the EU27 unsure who exactly they are negotiating with and whether the PM can make any deal stick. The disaster really is unmitigated.
    May is a very poor negotiator, for the very same reason that her election was so piss poor. She doesn't listen to people.

    The stormclouds are gathering, the ship is in full sail. We should be putting up the stormsails and batterning down the hatches, but instead the Captain is arguing with the officers about which harbour to head for, while the crew are in mutiny over the rum ration.

    Until all parties are preparing the ship, what should be a survivable storm risks our ship foundering. If we are unprepared and lucky we may get away with just being demasted.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126

    Mr. B, not sure. Read somewhere Sainz is on his 4th MGU-H and someone else, maybe Raikkonen, is on his 4th engine.

    Bit surprised that Raikkonen's odds for pole have drifted to 34, given he was third in second practice.

    Might have something to do with his trip through the kitty litter when he tried to push the pace.
    Double down ??

    I thought Ferrari had a new ICE planned this race weekend (both Vettel and Raikkonen have thus far used only two; the components they've used more of are the turbo and the MGUH...) which they probably wouldn't use on the first day of practice.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048

    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
    It was the day when the Eurosceptic cancer metastasised within its Conservative host.

    Not joining the Euro may have seemed like the painless option, but it fostered too many political illusions and set us on the slow path to the catastrophe of Brexit.
    As I said a few days ago joining the Euro would have destroyed both the UK economy and the Euro itself. If you like the Euro you should be eternally grateful we never joined.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,787

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126

    No concessions are needed for WTO Brexit, just some preparations. It is the only solution that we can choose.

    Quite so, but what happens if parliament votes for concessions which then produce nothing? We've even more stuffed than we would otherwise have been. Even if the opposition parties were sincere (ha ha!), you can't negotiate effectively by unilaterally passing parliamentary resolutions, you have to sit in a smoke-free room with the other side and trade concessions for something you want in return. That's why Theresa May was quite right to say that a larger majority would have strengthened her hand, and why it is such a disaster that she didn't get it. We've lost time and credibility, weakened ourselves, and left the EU27 unsure who exactly they are negotiating with and whether the PM can make any deal stick. The disaster really is unmitigated.
    May is a very poor negotiator, for the very same reason that her election was so piss poor. She doesn't listen to people...

    You missed out her poor decision making skills, and vulnerability under pressure... amongst other things.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,787
    FF43 said:

    Any poll result such as this cannot be trusted., who knows what weightings are being used and indeed if they are correct.

    YouGov have published their weightings, and included in the link above.
    I did this Yougov, there were a number of other Brexit related questions, and on voting reform. We may just be able to squeeze in an AV thread in amongst the Leave/Remain brickbats.
    There's an AV thread written and waiting to be published.

    I think it will go up either Sunday or Monday.
    My voting preferences: (1) Sunday (2) Monday.
    An AV election with only two candidates? FPTP!
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,284

    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
    It was the day when the Eurosceptic cancer metastasised within its Conservative host.

    Not joining the Euro may have seemed like the painless option, but it fostered too many political illusions and set us on the slow path to the catastrophe of Brexit.
    As I said a few days ago joining the Euro would have destroyed both the UK economy and the Euro itself. If you like the Euro you should be eternally grateful we never joined.
    That is certainly conceivable if Gordon Brown had done his worst, but I'm assuming all would not have been equal had we joined.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    scotslass said:

    felix

    BUT based on the Elgin result (which was better for the SNP than the general election) the tide is already starting to flow the other way. So prepared for SNP gains from narrow Tory majorities.

    Weren't the Tories up more than the SNP in that seat?
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048

    surbiton said:

    stodge said:


    There is only one possible course of action for government and the Conservative Party, which is to follow the advice of Winston Churchill and keep buggering on. We need to get through the Article 50 process, sort out as much of the mess as possible, beef up the party organisation and strategy, and leave time for Corbyn to burn out and Labour's unity to collapse under the weight of its own contradictions. Possibly it would have been better to have done all that under a different leader (Phil Hammond), but the moment for a swift coup has passed.

    OTOH, you could stick with May, go down to a huge defeat in 2022 and spend the next 20 years in Opposition.

    Works for me.

    The country will be fine if the Conservatives aren't in Government.

    Why post something you know not to be true Every Labour Govt has eventually trashed the economy in the last 50 yrs.
    Black Wednesday !
    Black Wednesday is the day it became clear we should should not join the Euro so should be called rainbow Wednesday.
    It was the day when the Eurosceptic cancer metastasised within its Conservative host.

    Not joining the Euro may have seemed like the painless option, but it fostered too many political illusions and set us on the slow path to the catastrophe of Brexit.
    As I said a few days ago joining the Euro would have destroyed both the UK economy and the Euro itself. If you like the Euro you should be eternally grateful we never joined.
    That is certainly conceivable if Gordon Brown had done his worst, but I'm assuming all would not have been equal had we joined.

    Unless you consider membership would have prevented the 2008 world wide financial crisis then I am afraid you are wrong.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    Mr. B, that should help the Prancing Horses gallop a little faster.
  • Options
    prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 441
    TOPPING said:

    First off I have no idea what jurisdiction it has. Has it got the power, for example, to extradite Canadian citizens to the US for trial, like it has over us here?

    Second, we are talking international trade agreements. While I understand that the ECJ could be seen as being "on their side", we nevertheless need a supranational institution opining on banana curvature if we want to "access" the single market (it is their market, after all).

    The Supreme Court of the United States has no jurisdiction in the UK or Canada. It has no power to extradite UK citizens (or anyone else in the UK) to the US for trial. US prosecutors can request extradition but it is the UK that decides whether or not to extradite. The US Supreme Court will not normally have any involvement in the process at all. It cannot force the UK to extradite anyone.

    The EU does not just want the ECJ to rule on trade disputes (which should, in any event, be settled by the WTO's dispute resolution procedure, not by what is, in effect, the national court of one party to the dispute). The EU wants the ECJ to rule on the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK, for example. That should not be acceptable to any sovereign state.

    TSE quotes the example of the Privy Council which continues to hear appeals from Crown Dependencies, British Overseas Territories and some independent Commonwealth states (including Jamaica. TSE is wrong about them opting out two years ago. The change passed the House of Representatives but it needed to pass the Senate as well and a general election was called before there was a final vote. The election was won by the Jamaican Labour Party which opposes the change and has promised a referendum). The Judicial Committee of the Privy Council is not a purely UK affair. It includes judges from the superior courts in some Commonwealth nations who sit when appeals from their own country are being heard. I don't see that as in any way equivalent to the ECJ. Apart from anything else, Commonwealth nations chose to keep the Privy Council as their final court of appeal and can choose to opt out at any time. That is not what the EU is proposing regarding the ECJ. I also don't see any proposal from the EU that UK judges should continue to sit on the ECJ.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,524
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    I was that...before 45. Things have slipped a bit since then.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    TOPPING said:

    First off I have no idea what jurisdiction it has. Has it got the power, for example, to extradite Canadian citizens to the US for trial, like it has over us here?

    Second, we are talking international trade agreements. While I understand that the ECJ could be seen as being "on their side", we nevertheless need a supranational institution opining on banana curvature if we want to "access" the single market (it is their market, after all).

    The Supreme Court of the United States has no jurisdiction in the UK or Canada. It has no power to extradite UK citizens (or anyone else in the UK) to the US for trial. US prosecutors can request extradition but it is the UK that decides whether or not to extradite. The US Supreme Court will not normally have any involvement in the process at all. It cannot force the UK to extradite anyone.

    The EU does not just want the ECJ to rule on trade disputes (which should, in any event, be settled by the WTO's dispute resolution procedure, not by what is, in effect, the national court of one party to the dispute). The EU wants the ECJ to rule on the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK, for example. That should not be acceptable to any sovereign state.

    TSE quotes the example of the Privy Council which continues to hear appeals from Crown Dependencies, British Overseas Territories and some independent Commonwealth states (including Jamaica. TSE is wrong about them opting out two years ago. The change passed the House of Representatives but it needed to pass the Senate as well and a general election was called before there was a final vote. The election was won by the Jamaican Labour Party which opposes the change and has promised a referendum). The Judicial Committee of the Privy Council is not a purely UK affair. It includes judges from the superior courts in some Commonwealth nations who sit when appeals from their own country are being heard. I don't see that as in any way equivalent to the ECJ. Apart from anything else, Commonwealth nations chose to keep the Privy Council as their final court of appeal and can choose to opt out at any time. That is not what the EU is proposing regarding the ECJ. I also don't see any proposal from the EU that UK judges should continue to sit on the ECJ.
    Wouldn't it be easier if we stayed in the ECJ and then it would be out court as well. It will only arbitrate on such matters and do not have to the final court on all matters.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    DavidL said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    I was that...before 45. Things have slipped a bit since then.
    So it is true... you do get shorter as you age. :D
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    DavidL said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    I was that...before 45. Things have slipped a bit since then.
    You can blame it on the metric !
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    I was that...before 45. Things have slipped a bit since then.
    So it is true... you do get shorter as you age. :D
    That is true also. I think David was alluding to another problem.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    IanB2 said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    A big advantage of metric is the interchangeability of litres and kgs for most routine substances, very useful when cooking.

    Metric temperature measurements beat F hands down; not only is the 0-100 freeze-boil scale easy to understand, but weatherwise below 0 is freezing, single digits is cold, 10s is cool, 20s is warm and 30s is hot. 40 or more, don't go out. What more can you need?
    Absolutely. 1 litre of water = 1 kg. The French are cool.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,524
    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    I was that...before 45. Things have slipped a bit since then.
    So it is true... you do get shorter as you age. :D
    That makes it worse!

    I am working on it this holiday but 175 looks a long way off.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    Mr. Surbiton, isn't that dependent on temperature?

    In F1, fuel is measured in weight as density and therefore volumes varies according to temperature, whereas weight is more stable.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited July 2017
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40611619

    I am now beginning to suspect that the Russians believe Trump is damaged goods and they are themselves leaking the stories gradually. Why didn't this meeting surface last year as I am sure the US Intelligence knew about it ? The meeting took place in June 2016 !

    It was shortly after this meeting that Trump started to talk about Hillary's "missing emails".
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    RobD said:

    scotslass said:

    felix

    BUT based on the Elgin result (which was better for the SNP than the general election) the tide is already starting to flow the other way. So prepared for SNP gains from narrow Tory majorities.

    Weren't the Tories up more than the SNP in that seat?
    Yes.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,524

    Mr. Surbiton, isn't that dependent on temperature?

    In F1, fuel is measured in weight as density and therefore volumes varies according to temperature, whereas weight is more stable.

    Would have thought that the volume the fuel was going to have in the fuel tank might have been useful information...
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    surbiton said:

    TOPPING said:

    First off I have no idea what jurisdiction it has. Has it got the power, for example, to extradite Canadian citizens to the US for trial, like it has over us here?

    Second, we are talking international trade agreements. While I understand that the ECJ could be seen as being "on their side", we nevertheless need a supranational institution opining on banana curvature if we want to "access" the single market (it is their market, after all).

    The Supreme Court of the United States has no jurisdiction in the UK or Canada. It has no power to extradite UK citizens (or anyone else in the UK) to the US for trial. US prosecutors can request extradition but it is the UK that decides whether or not to extradite. The US Supreme Court will not normally have any involvement in the process at all. It cannot force the UK to extradite anyone.

    The EU does not just want the ECJ to rule on trade disputes (which should, in any event, be settled by the WTO's dispute resolution procedure, not by what is, in effect, the national court of one party to the dispute). The EU wants the ECJ to rule on the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK, for example. That should not be acceptable to any sovereign state.

    TSE quotes the example of the Privy Council which continues to hear appeals from Crown Dependencies, British Overseas Territories and some independent Commonwealth states (including Jamaica. TSE is wrong about them opting out two years ago. The change passed the House of Representatives but it needed to pass the Senate as well and a general election was called before there was a final vote. The election was won by the Jamaican Labour Party which opposes the change and has promised a referendum). The Judicial Committee of the Privy Council is not a purely UK affair. It includes judges from the superior courts in some Commonwealth nations who sit when appeals from their own country are being heard. I don't see that as in any way equivalent to the ECJ. Apart from anything else, Commonwealth nations chose to keep the Privy Council as their final court of appeal and can choose to opt out at any time. That is not what the EU is proposing regarding the ECJ. I also don't see any proposal from the EU that UK judges should continue to sit on the ECJ.
    Wouldn't it be easier if we stayed in the ECJ and then it would be out court as well. It will only arbitrate on such matters and do not have to the final court on all matters.
    How about a joint court of two judges each from UK/EU and a fifth judge from a third country nominated for five years alternately by the EU and UK. Meaning (say) a Swiss or Norwegian or Canadian casting vote?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Mr. Surbiton, isn't that dependent on temperature?

    In F1, fuel is measured in weight as density and therefore volumes varies according to temperature, whereas weight is more stable.

    OK. We are talking about sea level and it works very well as an approximation unless you are on top of Mt. Everest.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    DavidL said:

    RobD said:

    DavidL said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    I was that...before 45. Things have slipped a bit since then.
    So it is true... you do get shorter as you age. :D
    That makes it worse!

    I am working on it this holiday but 175 looks a long way off.
    David , go for 16:8 !
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    Mr. L, unnecessary. No refuelling and maximum 100kg of fuel per race now.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,524
    felix said:

    RobD said:

    scotslass said:

    felix

    BUT based on the Elgin result (which was better for the SNP than the general election) the tide is already starting to flow the other way. So prepared for SNP gains from narrow Tory majorities.

    Weren't the Tories up more than the SNP in that seat?
    Yes.
    Without more information it is very hard to say. If the "independent" caucused with the SNP on the Council then it might actually be a bad result for the SNP. If he was basically a tartan Tory it is a much better result. Good to see the Tories still picking up seats in Scotland though, especially given the mood music from Westminster.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    welshowl said:

    surbiton said:

    TOPPING said:

    First off I have no idea what jurisdiction it has. Has it got the power, for example, to extradite Canadian citizens to the US for trial, like it has over us here?

    Second, we are talking international trade agreements. While I understand that the ECJ could be seen as being "on their side", we nevertheless need a supranational institution opining on banana curvature if we want to "access" the single market (it is their market, after all).

    The Supreme Court of the United States has no jurisdiction in the UK or Canada. It has no power to extradite UK citizens (or anyone else in the UK) to the US for trial. US prosecutors can request extradition but it is the UK that decides whether or not to extradite. The US Supreme Court will not normally have any involvement in the process at all. It cannot force the UK to extradite anyone.

    The EU does not just want the ECJ to rule on trade disputes (which should, in any event, be settled by the WTO's dispute resolution procedure, not by what is, in effect, the national court of one party to the dispute). The EU wants the ECJ to rule on the rights of EU citizens resident in the UK, for example. That should not be acceptable to any sovereign state.

    TSE quotes the example of the Privy Council which continues to hear appeals from Crown Dependencies, British Overseas Territories and some independent Commonwealth states (including Jamaica. TSE is wrong about them opting out two years ago. The change passed the House of Representatives but it needed to pass the Senate as well and a general election was called before there was a final vote. The election was won by the Jamaican Labour Party which opposes the change and has promised a referendum). The Judicial Committee of the Privy Council is not a purely UK affair. It includes judges from the superior courts in some Commonwealth nations who sit when appeals from their own country are being heard. I don't see that as in any way equivalent to the ECJ. Apart from anything else, Commonwealth nations chose to keep the Privy Council as their final court of appeal and can choose to opt out at any time. That is not what the EU is proposing regarding the ECJ. I also don't see any proposal from the EU that UK judges should continue to sit on the ECJ.
    Wouldn't it be easier if we stayed in the ECJ and then it would be out court as well. It will only arbitrate on such matters and do not have to the final court on all matters.
    How about a joint court of two judges each from UK/EU and a fifth judge from a third country nominated for five years alternately by the EU and UK. Meaning (say) a Swiss or Norwegian or Canadian casting vote?
    What about FIFA or IAAF or WADA ? Actually, you are right. There will be a similar compromise.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    surbiton said:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40611619

    I am now beginning to suspect that the Russians believe Trump is damaged goods and they are themselves leaking the stories gradually. Why didn't this meeting surface last year as I am sure the US Intelligence knew about it ? The meeting took place in June 2016 !

    It was shortly after this meeting that Trump started to talk about Hillary's "missing emails".

    Weren't the missing emails public knowledge before that date though?
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    DavidL said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    I was that...before 45. Things have slipped a bit since then.
    I once went for a check up at the Dr's and found, much to my surprise, I was an inch taller than I had thought for nigh on 25 years (not having actually been measured since 18 and must've had a late inch added when I was about 19 I guess). The extra inch brought my BMI below 25.

    Losing weight is so old hat. Gaining height is a much better option!
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048
    edited July 2017

    Mr. Surbiton, isn't that dependent on temperature?

    In F1, fuel is measured in weight as density and therefore volumes varies according to temperature, whereas weight is more stable.

    No. Water is a non compressible fluid. Changes in pressure and temperature do not cause changes in volume/density in its liquid form, only when it changes state.

    Interestingly it has a unique property in that it's density decreases slightly when it changes from liquid to solid. In almost all other materials density increases with this change of state. It is the reason that ice floats and is also therefore one of the reasons life can exist on earth.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40611619

    I am now beginning to suspect that the Russians believe Trump is damaged goods and they are themselves leaking the stories gradually. Why didn't this meeting surface last year as I am sure the US Intelligence knew about it ? The meeting took place in June 2016 !

    It was shortly after this meeting that Trump started to talk about Hillary's "missing emails".

    Weren't the missing emails public knowledge before that date though?
    I believe so but that would have made the possibility of getting hold of them even more attractive.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/11/what-happened-and-when-the-timeline-leading-up-to-donald-trump-jr-s-fateful-meeting/?utm_term=.82e5d031dcb3
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    scotslass said:

    felix

    BUT based on the Elgin result (which was better for the SNP than the general election) the tide is already starting to flow the other way. So prepared for SNP gains from narrow Tory majorities.

    Definitely, with the puppy surgeon relaunching the SNP in the autumn, with a probable reshuffling of the interior hierarchy to give the impression of activity, while all those sitting behind the favoured ones, watch on in frustration.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    Mr. Tyndall, ah, I did not know that (obviously).
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    And, now for some Brexit news.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40610573

    Barclays in talks to expand Dublin office post-Brexit

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40604375

    EasyJet picks Austrian base for post-Brexit plan

  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,030
    Incidentally, Divinity Original Sin 2 (that is a damned clunky title) has had its release date announced. 14 September, PC only (initially, at least, the first game did get console versions). Looks quite interesting.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,022
    surbiton said:


    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40604375

    EasyJet picks Austrian base for post-Brexit plan

    Not really...

    The parent company - EasyJet PLC - will retain its London Stock Exchange listing and its Luton headquarters.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    surbiton said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For temperature, 16=61 and 28=82, once you know that you can pretty much interpolate. Driving abroad I no longer translate distances, I just treat all the numbers as miles and find that journeys go pleasingly quickly, though caution is required over speed limits.
    Many roads in Ireland used to show distances in miles and speed limits in kilometres ! I do not want to write anything more on this.
    Have you avoirdupois?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,072
    Islamaphobic Essex thickos probably don't even realise Amir is a Muslim

    https://twitter.com/essexcricket/status/885908132626661377
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,524

    Mr. Surbiton, isn't that dependent on temperature?

    In F1, fuel is measured in weight as density and therefore volumes varies according to temperature, whereas weight is more stable.

    No. Water is a non compressible fluid. Changes in pressure and temperature do not cause changes in volume/density in its liquid form, only when it changes state.

    Interestingly it has a unique property in that it's density decreases slightly when it changes from liquid to solid. In almost all other materials density increases with this change of state. It is the reason that ice floats and is also therefore one of the reasons life can exist on earth.
    I don't believe in God but I have always thought that the many weird properties of water are one of the best arguments for some sort of divine intervention. As you say it is somewhat oddly less dense in its solid state allowing ice to float. It being white in the solid state has prevented the world from overheating reflecting a lot of the heat we would otherwise absorb from the sun. It has a remarkably high latent heat which makes it ideal for cooking etc. as well as ensuring that ice and snow melt is a gradual process allowing a steady flow of melt over an extended period. It has a very high specific heat which allows it to be a tremendous store of heat keeping the climate far more moderate than it would otherwise be. It has a remarkably high surface tension which inhibits its tendency to evaporate. It is generally known as the universal solvent which is key to much of our food. So many remarkable properties so useful to facilitate life. It is thought provoking.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,581
    Another brilliant piece from John Harris, on Brexit:

    "In the meantime, this messiest of national dramas grinds on, and not for the first time the story suggests the priceless words of the American writer and satirist HL Mencken: “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.” "

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/14/brexit-eu-referendum

    I think Brexit won't happen thanks to the complexity and the ineptness of those implementing it, but he makes some telling points why it should despite whatever the economic and political consequences.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048
    RobD said:

    surbiton said:


    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40604375

    EasyJet picks Austrian base for post-Brexit plan

    Not really...

    The parent company - EasyJet PLC - will retain its London Stock Exchange listing and its Luton headquarters.
    They also said no jobs will be moved from or lost in the UK.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,150

    Mr. Surbiton, isn't that dependent on temperature?

    In F1, fuel is measured in weight as density and therefore volumes varies according to temperature, whereas weight is more stable.

    No. Water is a non compressible fluid. Changes in pressure and temperature do not cause changes in volume/density in its liquid form, only when it changes state.
    Water is not very compressible, so its density doesn't change much with pressure, but it changes quite a lot with temperature. Famously, its density achieves its maximum at about 4 degrees centigrade, not at freezing point.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited July 2017
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    That is a reasonbly good rule of thumb over the normal height range.

    I have shed 10kg over 10 weeks, but another 6 to go. Current BMI 25.7.

  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    surbiton said:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40611619

    I am now beginning to suspect that the Russians believe Trump is damaged goods and they are themselves leaking the stories gradually. Why didn't this meeting surface last year as I am sure the US Intelligence knew about it ? The meeting took place in June 2016 !

    It was shortly after this meeting that Trump started to talk about Hillary's "missing emails".

    Having got Trump elected the Russians are gradually weakening him by deliberately releasing evidence. It is a masterpiece to watch. Not only are they going to compromise him as an individual, they will discredit the whole office.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,187
    11 stone = 70 kg for those who think in stones but measure in kg.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,845
    surbiton said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For temperature, 16=61 and 28=82, once you know that you can pretty much interpolate. Driving abroad I no longer translate distances, I just treat all the numbers as miles and find that journeys go pleasingly quickly, though caution is required over speed limits.
    Many roads in Ireland used to show distances in miles and speed limits in kilometres ! I do not want to write anything more on this.
    Speed limit signs are standardised to a handful of variants - 50, 80 etc. Each distance sign is bespoke for both the destinations and distances. They are an order of magnitude more expensive to replace.
  • Options
    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    That is a reasonbly good rule of thumb over the normal height range.

    I have shed 10kg over 10 weeks, but another 6 to go. Current BMI 25.7.

    Those with this problem should follow the basic advice on dietdoctor.com or diabeticmediterraneandiet.com. The NHS could save a fortune by advising diabetics and pre-diabetics what they can do for themselves.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    It will all be ok in two years time we can have pounds and ounzes, miles not kilograms and go back to pounds shillings and pence. There will be flat beer watching cricket on the village green an cucumber sandwiches for tea with the vicar. The tories will retain their destinly in life to rule over us and everything will be ok. We can call a q**** a q****r and a *** a *** but it will be wonderful
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited July 2017

    I don't think that. I think that hard WTO Brexit is nailed on, and soft Brexit a delusion. If the opposition parties were to be part of the process then they would see it too.

    Now I'm even more puzzled by your position. If a hard WTO Brexit is going to happen anyway, the effect of the election is that the government might be forced into a corner where we end up making concessions (especially on the exit bill) and then get nothing in return.
    Who is saying that we should 100% commit to "concessions" unless/until we get a deal that we want?

    The argument is that we should show willingness to make concessions, if the EU plays ball with us. As opposed to May's hardline approach in January of essentially saying that total opposition to the ECJ or budget contributions or being bound by Customs Union rules are total red lines, no matter what. Obviously we shouldn't unileratelly commit to those things before we know we're getting something in return.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,671
    TOPPING said:

    TonyE said:

    TOPPING said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Pulpstar said:

    It was oir current state is marginally worse.

    Vote for Corbyn :(

    No.
    There are only two options: Tory or Labour.

    If the Tories become unfit to govern then there is only one option left. There are no others.
    They are ..uppers.
    The ability of ... worrying !
    Tell me .... happen = Corbyn landslide.

    Oh and the worry that the only way the people will oppose Corbyn's economic policies is when they've had five years of it.
    e bar pretty low.


    Cameron's my hero.

    You own Brexit, George runs a free sheet in London, he has no influence any more.
    WE own Brexit. As a party, we own it and must deliver it. I think there's enormous scope for Europhiles to propose improvements to the current plans (e.g. accepting ECJ jurisdiction for Euratom scientists and other minor technical matters) but that is dependent on them not trying to crash the whole process at the same time.

    Cameron follows the constructive approach. Osborne sadly does not.
    If the Europhobes didn't have a conniption fit at the first mention of ECJ then we would have a chance at a sensible settlement.
    It's not Europhobic. But there has to be a recognition that the ECJ isn't a normal court - it exists to protect the 'Project'. In some areas this has little effect, but in many this cannot be acceptable to any free nation state, that a foreign power has jurisdiction above its own courts of law. This is the difference between intergovernmental and supranational.
    Yep. The project that we want to trade with. Apparently.
    Yes, like India does.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,715

    Mr. Surbiton, isn't that dependent on temperature?

    In F1, fuel is measured in weight as density and therefore volumes varies according to temperature, whereas weight is more stable.

    No. Water is a non compressible fluid. Changes in pressure and temperature do not cause changes in volume/density in its liquid form, only when it changes state.

    Interestingly it has a unique property in that it's density decreases slightly when it changes from liquid to solid. In almost all other materials density increases with this change of state. It is the reason that ice floats and is also therefore one of the reasons life can exist on earth.
    That is not correct. Water does change volume with temperature changes.It has an odd property in that it contracts up to 4C (where it has its greatest density) and then expands as temperature increases.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    eek said:

    You didn't negotiate that well if it started off a £400 a sq m and you are now paying £220 a sq ft.. (hint there are 10.7sq ft to a sq m)

    OK. Smart Alec. Sq.m all the way.
    I thought you were a closet LEAVER there, pining for Imperial.......
    Sadly, feet and inches is what I think about instinctively. But using 2.5cm = 1 inch I am converting to metric in my thinking. Since I have been using weighing scales in kgs, sooner or later you get used to it. Temperature is now in C for a long time. We don't need to hear 80's but 25C is enough [ 77F ]. I am pretty good in mental arithmetic.

    Metric is definitely better.
    For Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion and back again, the reverse numbers are easy to remember and use (and equate to "warm-to-hot border" and "cool-to-chilly border"):

    28 (reverses to 82)
    16 (reverses to 61)

    Those are fairly exact swaps as well: 28C is 82 F [technically 82.4], and 16C is 61F [well, 60.8]; they're accurate to 2 sig figs.
    Every day is a school day on PB!

    Over the typical northern temperature range "double it and add 30" is a close approximation.
    The best such approximation I have heard about in metric is the thumbs rule relationship between height and weight.

    So, if your height is 180 cm, your desired weight should be 80 kgs.

    In old money, 5'11" ~ 176 lbs.
    That is a reasonbly good rule of thumb over the normal height range.

    I have shed 10kg over 10 weeks, but another 6 to go. Current BMI 25.7.

    Those with this problem should follow the basic advice on dietdoctor.com or diabeticmediterraneandiet.com. The NHS could save a fortune by advising diabetics and pre-diabetics what they can do for themselves.
    Certainly in Leicester we have very active programmes on this. I was inspired by this little tool devised in our unit:

    http://riskscore.diabetes.org.uk/start

    My target is to get into the lowest risk group.


  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited July 2017
    kjh said:

    Mr. Surbiton, isn't that dependent on temperature?

    In F1, fuel is measured in weight as density and therefore volumes varies according to temperature, whereas weight is more stable.

    No. Water is a non compressible fluid. Changes in pressure and temperature do not cause changes in volume/density in its liquid form, only when it changes state.

    Interestingly it has a unique property in that it's density decreases slightly when it changes from liquid to solid. In almost all other materials density increases with this change of state. It is the reason that ice floats and is also therefore one of the reasons life can exist on earth.
    That is not correct. Water does change volume with temperature changes.It has an odd property in that it contracts up to 4C (where it has its greatest density) and then expands as temperature increases.
    The change to ice gives a relative density of 0.92. Water is marvelous stuff.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,126

    Mr. B, not sure. Read somewhere Sainz is on his 4th MGU-H and someone else, maybe Raikkonen, is on his 4th engine.

    Bit surprised that Raikkonen's odds for pole have drifted to 34, given he was third in second practice.

    Bottas grid penalty (same gearbox problem as Hamilton's at the previous race) should have improved those odds ?
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,715

    kjh said:

    Mr. Surbiton, isn't that dependent on temperature?

    In F1, fuel is measured in weight as density and therefore volumes varies according to temperature, whereas weight is more stable.

    No. Water is a non compressible fluid. Changes in pressure and temperature do not cause changes in volume/density in its liquid form, only when it changes state.

    Interestingly it has a unique property in that it's density decreases slightly when it changes from liquid to solid. In almost all other materials density increases with this change of state. It is the reason that ice floats and is also therefore one of the reasons life can exist on earth.
    That is not correct. Water does change volume with temperature changes.It has an odd property in that it contracts up to 4C (where it has its greatest density) and then expands as temperature increases.
    The change to ice gives a relative density of 0.92. Water is marvelous stuff.
    Yep. If you type in to google 'expansion graph for water' you can see the expansion behaviour / density change. It is probably true that life would be much less likely without this odd behaviour, but it only occurs in a very short temperature range of 4 degrees while in liquid form, but it also changes dramatically on freezing. We should really expect ice to be at the bottom of ponds not on the top of them if not for this oddity.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Labour's 2017 election campaign worst in almost 70 years at turning votes into seats, analysis finds

    Jeremy Corbyn secured a similar vote share to Tony Blair in 2001 – but won 151 fewer seats"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-election-campaign-vote-seats-won-share-worst-70-years-jeremy-corbyn-tony-blair-a7840231.html
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048
    nichomar said:

    It will all be ok in two years time we can have pounds and ounzes, miles not kilograms and go back to pounds shillings and pence. There will be flat beer watching cricket on the village green an cucumber sandwiches for tea with the vicar. The tories will retain their destinly in life to rule over us and everything will be ok. We can call a q**** a q****r and a *** a *** but it will be wonderful

    You really do have a very warped view of the world and your fellow man.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,814
    geoffw said:

    11 stone = 70 kg for those who think in stones but measure in kg.

    I think in stones and measure in stones.
  • Options
    William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346
    AndyJS said:

    "Labour's 2017 election campaign worst in almost 70 years at turning votes into seats, analysis finds

    Jeremy Corbyn secured a similar vote share to Tony Blair in 2001 – but won 151 fewer seats"

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-election-campaign-vote-seats-won-share-worst-70-years-jeremy-corbyn-tony-blair-a7840231.html

    That's a pretty stupid analysis. 40% of votes didn't translate into lots of seats because the conservatives got 42% and its a first past the post system.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,033
    We have a British Wimbledon champion.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,940
    edited July 2017
    nichomar said:

    It will all be ok in two years time we can have pounds and ounzes, miles not kilograms and go back to pounds shillings and pence. There will be flat beer watching cricket on the village green an cucumber sandwiches for tea with the vicar. The tories will retain their destinly in life to rule over us and everything will be ok. We can call a q**** a q****r and a *** a *** but it will be wonderful

    Quite good satire but you have to remember about a third of the posters on here are Faragists and they'll be salivating.

    ....and Easyjet moving it's HQ to Austria. The good news just keeps coming
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048
    Roger said:

    nichomar said:

    It will all be ok in two years time we can have pounds and ounzes, miles not kilograms and go back to pounds shillings and pence. There will be flat beer watching cricket on the village green an cucumber sandwiches for tea with the vicar. The tories will retain their destinly in life to rule over us and everything will be ok. We can call a q**** a q****r and a *** a *** but it will be wonderful

    Quite good satire but you have to remember about a third of the posters on her are Faragists and they'll be salivating.

    ....and Easyjet moving it's HQ to Austria. The good news just keeps coming
    Except it isnt. Not surprising to see you salivating over what you think is something bad for the UK but rather amusing that yet again you are wrong. Your eagerness to see bad things inflicted on the country you have deserted makes you probe to even more mistakes than usual.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,787

    geoffw said:

    11 stone = 70 kg for those who think in stones but measure in kg.

    I think in stones and measure in stones.
    I can't manage when Americans quote someone's weight* in pounds - I can't divide by 14 in my head.

    *Strictly mass, but I am using lay-language.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,940
    edited July 2017

    Roger said:

    nichomar said:

    It will all be ok in two years time we can have pounds and ounzes, miles not kilograms and go back to pounds shillings and pence. There will be flat beer watching cricket on the village green an cucumber sandwiches for tea with the vicar. The tories will retain their destinly in life to rule over us and everything will be ok. We can call a q**** a q****r and a *** a *** but it will be wonderful

    Quite good satire but you have to remember about a third of the posters on her are Faragists and they'll be salivating.

    ....and Easyjet moving it's HQ to Austria. The good news just keeps coming
    Except it isnt. Not surprising to see you salivating over what you think is something bad for the UK but rather amusing that yet again you are wrong. Your eagerness to see bad things inflicted on the country you have deserted makes you probe to even more mistakes than usual.
    What's bad for the UK in my opinion is Little Englanders so obviously we see things differently. Here's your man

    http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8233267.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/16-dec-2016-Ukip-leader-Nigel-Farage.jpg
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    We have a British Wimbledon champion.

    Can you give us tomorrow's lottery numbers too :wink:
This discussion has been closed.