'That people also recall Mrs May not attending the debate probably ensures the next Tory leader won’t be chickening out of the debates at the next general election.'
And yet in the last two GE's neither Cameron or May attended 'the debate' and both were re-elected as PM.... I suspect that the next Tory Leader will like their predecessors consider the risks and their position in the polls before deciding to participate in any political debates dictated by the TV media rather than their advisors...
The fact that those polled have a very 'media orientated' memory of the last GE is no surprise. Its now up to the Theresa May and her Government to prove the media wrong, and how long before Corbyn and his cronies prove the electorate were right in not electing them to Government despite the media behaving as if they had won?!
Cameron attended the seven way debate in 2015, in 2017 Mrs May didn't and sent Amber Rudd instead.
Who did pretty well, despite losing her father days before.
Rudd is about the only one of the senior Tory MP's that properly listens to people, then actually answers the question. If the Tories want to recover a connection with the people, then they should elect her leader. Her small majority is not that big of a problem, in that if she wins seats it would become safer, and if she loses seats she is toast anyway. A small majority concentrates the mind.
Yeah, I wasn't sure why people were saying that a small majority means she has no chance of being a leader. Maybe the risk of a decapitation, winning a majority but losing her seat?
Result of terrible blue campaign and great red campaign? Labour 50-60 seats behind.
It's obvious to see where Conservatives could improve. Not being shit would be the starting point. Attacking opposition policies instead of letting them get free airtime. Proposing policies that aren't designed specifically to frighten off the Conservative core vote.
Where does Labour go? I'm not saying they can't improve just that it's much harder than for the Conservatives. Not only that, whilst the Government will take an EU hit whatever happens, Corbyn can't do the hokey-cokey whilst
Good morning, Mr.D.
I don't think too many are assuming Corbyn is a shoo-in at the next election, but equally, I think it a bit of a mistake to rely only on the election result and extrapolate from there while positing an improved Try campaign next time round.
Judging by the polls since, things were probably still moving Labour's way so that, had the election been a week later, it's possible that the result might have been very different. Corbyn's profile has, if anything, improved further since the election, while May has looked increasingly hapless It's not obvious how and when a new leader will take charge of the Conservatives to remedy the situation, or who that as yet unheralded paragon might be.
And I don't think your Brexit argument makes
To say that I am not thrilled by the prospect of Corbyn in government would be an understatement, but it is a real prospect.
The clock is ticking. Heseltine reckons 2% of the older voters die per year. They vote massively Tory, whereas we have just seen the under 45s are Corbyn now:
People have been saying Conservative support is dying off as long as I've been voting. In 1997, Labour led 48/29 among 25-34 year olds, but 20 years on, the same group were 43/40 Conservative.
Many of today's Corbynites will turn out to be tomorrow's Tories.
Not if levels of owner occupation continue to sink and the numbers of dodgy BTL landlords continues to rise, they won't.
BTL is becoming very unattractive financially, while construction output has risen sharply over the past four years, and house price rises have levelled off. I'd expect to see housing becoming more affordable in coming years.
Let's nail the foxhunting thing once and for all. Hunting people provide a large number of footsoldiers for the Cons throughout the country, delivering leaflets, canvassing, knocking up, etc.
As per previous GE campaigns (since 2005), it is Cons policy to get these people out on the street to help. To do this, something has to be done about repeal of the Hunting Act.
No one was more surprised than me to see a commitment to a free vote on repeal pre-announced. Previously there has been no such explicit announcement. But it was made to get those hunting people out on the street.
It is also a mark of the naivety/idiocy/hubris of the campaign first that they thought they could make the commitment bold and brash with no fallout, and then, critically, that once they had got this part on track, they then proceeded to show fuck all urgency in most of the remainder of the campaign in terms of usual Cons activists, effort and activity.
Nailing it once and for all is what the 2017 GE has just done. It ain't coming back, ever.
I think you are right; which also meets with agreement from a decent corpus of opinion within the hunting community.
People turn Conservative in middle age once they have accumulated a reasonable amount of assets and security for themselves that they feel needs to be defended. On current trajectories far fewer of the current generation of young people will reach this position and "flip" later in life.
"Fox hunting killed them" - 2%......But the Tories are crossest about the Tory campaign....which might make for an uncomfortable Conference
What's striking is how low in general all the specific numbers are - if only one in 20 recall Theresa May not turning up to a debate I doubt that will bind the hands of her successor.
Interestingly 'Abolition of Tuition Fees' is only remembered by 9% of the 18-24 demographic, and only 3% of them think Labour targeted the 'Youth Vote' while 17% of the 65+ recall Labour promises as 'Empty/unaffordable'.......all in all two campaigns relying on 'Star quality' - and only one of them had a (not very bright) 'Star'.....
I am on record as repeatedly pointing out that both fox hunting and grammar schools were utterly and totally toxic issues outside the Conservative 'heartland shires' in the South. Two issues that lost the Conservatives 'youth' votes without Corbyn and Labour even having to mention the economic utopia that could afford free tuition fees and that could also write off current student tuition fee debts!
Let's nail the foxhunting thing once and for all. Hunting people provide a large number of footsoldiers for the Cons throughout the country, delivering leaflets, canvassing, knocking up, etc.
As per previous GE campaigns (since 2005), it is Cons policy to get these people out on the street to help. To do this, something has to be done about repeal of the Hunting Act.
No one was more surprised than me to see a commitment to a free vote on repeal pre-announced. Previously there has been no such explicit announcement. But it was made to get those hunting people out on the street.
It is also a mark of the naivety/idiocy/hubris of the campaign first that they thought they could make the commitment bold and brash with no fallout, and then, critically, that once they had got this part on track, they then proceeded to show fuck all urgency in most of the remainder of the campaign in terms of usual Cons activists, effort and activity.
Nailing it once and for all is what the 2017 GE has just done. It ain't coming back, ever.
Yes, agree with that, it's done. It's gone beyond a technical argument on how you control the fox population. Now any attempt to repeal is just seen as a bizarre and cruel thing, not to mention seeming to prioritise animal killing policies over the day to day of people's lives and financial security.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
I don't think too many are assuming Corbyn is a shoo-in at the next election, but equally, I think it a bit of a mistake to rely only on the election result and extrapolate from there while positing an improved Try campaign next time round.
Judging by the polls since, things were probably still moving Labour's way so that, had the election been a week later, it's possible that the result might have been very different. Corbyn's profile has, if anything, improved further since the election, while May has looked increasingly hapless It's not obvious how and when a new leader will take charge of the Conservatives to remedy the situation, or who that as yet unheralded paragon might be.
And I don't think your Brexit argument makes
To say that I am not thrilled by the prospect of Corbyn in government would be an understatement, but it is a real prospect.
The clock is ticking. Heseltine reckons 2% of the older voters die per year. They vote massively Tory, whereas we have just seen the under 45s are Corbyn now:
People have been saying Conservative support is dying off as long as I've been voting. In 1997, Labour led 48/29 among 25-34 year olds, but 20 years on, the same group were 43/40 Conservative.
Many of today's Corbynites will turn out to be tomorrow's Tories.
Not if levels of owner occupation continue to sink and the numbers of dodgy BTL landlords continues to rise, they won't.
BTL is becoming very unattractive financially, while construction output has risen sharply over the past four years, and house price rises have levelled off. I'd expect to see housing becoming more affordable in coming years.
Me too. The irony is that the Tories have done nothing about it, despite huge political incentive from it being the one change that most undermines their long term support (reason being that so many of their MPs and councillors are landlords on the side), and Labour will do little about it because they have huge political incentive from the current broken market.
BTL is becoming very unattractive financially, while construction output has risen sharply over the past four years, and house price rises have levelled off. I'd expect to see housing becoming more affordable in coming years.
Indeed, the changes in taxation are really going to hit those who use BTL rental income to pay mortgages though for those who use it as pure investment it won't be so much of an issue.
It's still about supply, demand, type and location. The housing requirements for London are not going to be the same as for rural Devon.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
All 3 (+ the working men's club) in my village seem to be doing ok.
I don't think too many are assuming Corbyn is a shoo-in at the next election, but equally, I think it a bit of a mistake to rely only on the election result and extrapolate from there while positing an improved Try campaign next time round.
Judging by the polls since, things were probably still moving Labour's way so that, had the election been a week later, it's possible that the result might have been very different. Corbyn's profile has, if anything, improved further since the election, while May has looked increasingly hapless It's not obvious how and when a new leader will take charge of the Conservatives to remedy the situation, or who that as yet unheralded paragon might be.
And I don't think your Brexit argument makes
To say that I am not thrilled by the prospect of Corbyn in government would be an understatement, but it is a real prospect.
The clock is ticking. Heseltine reckons 2% of the older voters die per year. They vote massively Tory, whereas we have just seen the under 45s are Corbyn now:
People have been saying Conservative support is dying off as long as I've been voting. In 1997, Labour led 48/29 among 25-34 year olds, but 20 years on, the same group were 43/40 Conservative.
Many of today's Corbynites will turn out to be tomorrow's Tories.
Not if levels of owner occupation continue to sink and the numbers of dodgy BTL landlords continues to rise, they won't.
BTL is becoming very unattractive financially, while construction output has risen sharply over the past four years, and house price rises have levelled off. I'd expect to see housing becoming more affordable in coming years.
Me too. The irony is that the Tories have done nothing about it, despite huge political incentive from it being the one change that most undermines their long term support, and Labour will do little about it because they have huge political incentive from the current broken market.
I wouldn't say nothing. The BTL owners were squeezed in Osborne's last budget.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
Not a zero pub situation no, but a vastly diminished selection with choice limited to the likes of Wetherspoons, bars in city centres, pub restaurants. Community pubs will be gone as will traditional back street boozers. Unless the situation changes dramatically or social attitudes shift.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
Not a zero pub situation no, but a vastly diminished selection with choice limited to the likes of Wetherspoons, bars in city centres, pub restaurants. Community pubs will be gone as will traditional back street boozers. Unless the situation changes dramatically or social attitudes shift.
I think part of it is people are drinking less - particularly young people.
The famous Vote Leave bus was clear: "We send the EU £350 million a week ... let's fund our NHS instead."
Now, there is a semantic debate to be had about whether this meant the money would or just could be spent on the NHS and how much might be involved.
But what was clear was that money that used to go to Brussels could be spent on other things "instead".
So it was quite a big moment yesterday when the government committed to sending money across the Channel not just until the moment we leave the EU, nor just during some as-yet-unspecified transition process, but ongoing payments which will "survive the UK's withdrawal".
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
OH GOD!!!!!!!!!
I first read that as: Do you think there is a future Britain with no pb?
So, most people don't remember anything about either campaign?
Interesting lesson there.
They're asked to name one thing, apparently unprompted. It's not surprising there's quite a scatter.
And yet despite a very poor Conservative campaign, the clear and entrenched Corbyn negatives helped to make sure that Labour failed to win the GE despite the Corbyn led protest style campaign which galvinised the far left and captured the imagination of young voters... Corbyn never even came close, not that the media have highlighted that fact in recent weeks...
The pub industry is in fatal decline. It goes back to the changes in the late 80s, coupled now with cheap supermarket booze. The pub companies that replaced the old breweries are further killing the industry with their tied products policies and idiotic rents. The only way to make money in a pub now is to own the freehold or be a chain like Wetherspoons with managers rather than landlords and bulk purchase power. Community pubs are finished in the main.
I shed few tears for the traditional boozer in all honesty. The industry isn't declining but evolving. Pub food has undergone a revolution and the family meal out at the pub/restaurant is the staple for many venues.
Mr Stodge Senior is a member of CAMRA and even at his advanced years enjoys his ale but he also enjoys a decent slab of sea bream or trout with his ale. I can think of a dozen pubs within a few minutes of where he lives where he gets both the ale he likes and an excellent lunch,
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
The football answer is simple in terms of supporting local boozers. Get rid of the stupid 3 o'clock Saturday ban on showing live matches and allow pubs to buy a subscription for all of a particular teams matches for the season. Guaranteed Saturday afternoon trade.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
Making a profit out of a pub is far harder than most people realise, and a lot of people sink their savings into it, and lose the lot.
Although one client struck gold. He took a 20 year sub-sub lease on a pub in central London, and the Head Landlord wished to redevelop the block. He was the last occupant of the block, and the Head Landlord paid him £3.5 m to leave.
Mr. Eagles, actually, I'd assess the Corbyn positive/negative stats in precisely the opposite way.
May had a terrible campaign. She was seen as negative. The campaign was seen poorly.
Labour had a good campaign. Corbyn was pretty neutral overall.
Result of terrible blue campaign and great red campaign? Labour 50-60 seats behind.
It's obvious to see where Conservatives could improve. Not being shit would be the starting point. Attacking opposition policies instead of letting them get free airtime. Proposing policies that aren't designed specifically to frighten off the Conservative core vote.
Where does Labour go? I'm not saying they can't improve just that it's much harder than for the Conservatives. Not only that, whilst the Government will take an EU hit whatever happens, Corbyn can't do the hokey-cokey whilst the bills
The next result could credibly range from a blue to a red majority, but we shouldn't let assessment of the last campaign lead us to assume Corbyn/Labour are a shoo-in.
Good morning, Mr.D.
I don't think too many are assuming Corbyn is a shoo-in at the next election, but equally, I think it a bit of a mistake to rely only on the election result and extrapolate from there while positing an improved Try campaign next time round.
Judging by the polls
To say that I am not thrilled by the prospect of Corbyn in government would be an understatement, but it is a real prospect.
The clock is ticking. Heseltine reckons 2% of the older voters die per year. They vote massively Tory, whereas we have just seen the under 45s are Corbyn now:
People have been saying Conservative support is dying off as long as I've been voting. In 1997, Labour led 48/29 among 25-34 year olds, but 20 years on, the same group were 43/40 Conservative.
That process (and I am in that generation) was led by people becoming established in careers with prospects, owning houses that appreciate and having money left over to invest or spend as they chose. It is rash to believe that the next generation with insecure jobs, poor access to housing, and heavy debts rather than disposeable income will follow the same trajectory.
Or, in 1997 25-34 year olds were people who were at most 16 when last we had a Labour government, whereas in 2017, they had recently seen 13 years of one.
And yet despite a very poor Conservative campaign, the clear and entrenched Corbyn negatives helped to make sure that Labour failed to win the GE despite the Corbyn led protest style campaign which galvinised the far left and captured the imagination of young voters... Corbyn never even came close, not that the media have highlighted that fact in recent weeks...
That's straw clutching of the first order.
In case you've forgotten, May was supposed to win by a landslide and "crush" Labour under Jeremy Corbyn who, according to many on here, would be lucky to win 150 seats. Apparently, and this is a killer, the Conservatives were going to win Doncaster North and Bolsover because Grayling or some other Minister was seen canvassing.
Every Labour interview was a car crash, May was hugely popular serenely gliding her way toward a 100 or even a 150 seat majority. Would she do better than Margaret in 1983 we all gushed breathlessly ?
Yeah, right.
Labour did come close - it wouldn't have taken much for the Conservatives to shed another 10 seats making the deal with the DUP unworkable. OTOH, the Conservatives came close to an overall majority - it was that kind of result.
I don't think too many are assuming Corbyn is a shoo-in at the next election, but equally, I think it a bit of a mistake to rely only on the election result and extrapolate from there while positing an improved Try campaign next time round.
Judging by the polls since, things were probably still moving Labour's way so that, had the election been a week later, it's possible that the result might have been very different. Corbyn's profile has, if anything, improved further since the election, while May has looked increasingly hapless It's not obvious how and when a new leader will take charge of the Conservatives to remedy the situation, or who that as yet unheralded paragon might be.
And I don't think your Brexit argument makes
To say that I am not thrilled by the prospect of Corbyn in government would be an understatement, but it is a real prospect.
The clock is ticking. Heseltine reckons 2% of the older voters die per year. They vote massively Tory, whereas we have just seen the under 45s are Corbyn now:
People have been saying Conservative support is dying off as long as I've been voting. In 1997, Labour led 48/29 among 25-34 year olds, but 20 years on, the same group were 43/40 Conservative.
Many of today's Corbynites will turn out to be tomorrow's Tories.
Not if levels of owner occupation continue to sink and the numbers of dodgy BTL landlords continues to rise, they won't.
BTL is becoming very unattractive financially, while construction output has risen sharply over the past four years, and house price rises have levelled off. I'd expect to see housing becoming more affordable in coming years.
Thanks to the SNP Government at Holyrood, the Scottish housing market is now totally screwed and basically on life support thanks to their economic incompetence! An issue I feel strongly about as I was planning to sell and buy again in Scotland in the next couple of years.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings. Pub chains exploit this with contracts that are so financially onerous they are almost guaranteed to fail. The chains literally go for broke because they know there are plenty more suckers to take their place. It's their business model.
I don't think too many are assuming Corbyn is a shoo-in at the next election, but equally, I think it a bit of a mistake to rely only on the election result and extrapolate from there while positing an improved Try campaign next time round.
Judging by the polls since, things were probably still moving Labour's way so that, had the election been a week later, it's possible that the result might have been very different. Corbyn's profile has, if anything, improved further since the election, while May has looked increasingly hapless It's not obvious how and when a new leader will take charge of the Conservatives to remedy the situation, or who that as yet unheralded paragon might be.
And I don't think your Brexit argument makes
To say that I am not thrilled by the prospect of Corbyn in government would be an understatement, but it is a real prospect.
The clock is ticking. Heseltine reckons 2% of the older voters die per year. They vote massively Tory, whereas we have just seen the under 45s are Corbyn now:
People have been saying Conservative support is dying off as long as I've been voting. In 1997, Labour led 48/29 among 25-34 year olds, but 20 years on, the same group were 43/40 Conservative.
Many of today's Corbynites will turn out to be tomorrow's Tories.
Not if levels of owner occupation continue to sink and the numbers of dodgy BTL landlords continues to rise, they won't.
BTL is becoming very unattractive financially, while construction output has risen sharply over the past four years, and house price rises have levelled off. I'd expect to see housing becoming more affordable in coming years.
Thanks to the SNP Government at Holyrood, the Scottish housing market is now totally screwed and basically on life support thanks to their economic incompetence! An issue I feel strongly about as I was planning to sell and buy again in Scotland in the next couple of years.
How so ?
I'd be paying slightly less stamp on my prospective purchase if I was moving in Scotland...
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
Making a profit out of a pub is far harder than most people realise, and a lot of people sink their savings into it, and lose the lot.
It is indeed. Outside of freehold owned pubs, the rent and pubco product ties are exorbitant. And there's the issue of attracting customers. You can put on entertainment, but rule of thumb is 3 times your expenditure in additional takings to break even. So you spend £300 on a quality local act who can attract customers and you've got to take 900 over your usual Saturday night take to break even. For a community pub that's a busy night and not without significant risk.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline. It goes back to the changes in the late 80s, coupled now with cheap supermarket booze. The pub companies that replaced the old breweries are further killing the industry with their tied products policies and idiotic rents. The only way to make money in a pub now is to own the freehold or be a chain like Wetherspoons with managers rather than landlords and bulk purchase power. Community pubs are finished in the main.
Agree with most of the points, but I think you should also mention the price of the beer. Checking out prices (for a project, not personally sampling) round Edinburgh, the prices seem to average out around £3.50/pint, max £6/pint, min £2/pint. While .5 litre (1 pint more or less) bottle costs from around £1.50 in a supermarket. In other words, the perception is that pubs do not give value for money.
Also home brewing is becoming very popular now, which the cost of the first batch, including all the reusable kit, works out at £1.50/pint, while every subsequent brew works out at less than 50p/pint. In matters of scale, breweries should brew at less than 10p a pint after all expenses. Tax then comes into the equation.
But like the dead tree media, as people stop using the product, you either cut costs and lower the quality leading to lower sales, or if you cannot cut the costs, you have to increase the prices at the customer facing level who won't buy if the same or similar product is available elsewhere leading to lower sales, or higher sales in the new alternative markets.
In every election there is a huge protest vote. In 2010 it was for the Lib Dems, in 2015 it was for UKIP, in 2017 it was for Labour.
In every election there is an anti-Labour vote, an anti-Conservative vote, an anti-Lib Dem vote and an anti-all the above vote. These votes vary greatly in size and eventual destination.
Are you trying to suggest one day there will be a protest vote for the Conservatives ?
If I was a strong Brexiter... I would now counter that boring reference to increased NHS spending by the 'leave' campaign with reminders of the UK's annual net contributions to both the EU and Nato in comparison to their EU allies....
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
The football answer is simple in terms of supporting local boozers. Get rid of the stupid 3 o'clock Saturday ban on showing live matches and allow pubs to buy a subscription for all of a particular teams matches for the season. Guaranteed Saturday afternoon trade.
Plenty of pubs here show live streams from Thailand, for Leicester City away matches. Illegal, but certainly fills the place. I can see why pubs take the risk.
Tinternet has been another nail in the coffin, I now have the sorts of conversations on PB that I once had in the pub.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline. It goes back to the changes in the late 80s, coupled now with cheap supermarket booze. The pub companies that replaced the old breweries are further killing the industry with their tied products policies and idiotic rents. The only way to make money in a pub now is to own the freehold or be a chain like Wetherspoons with managers rather than landlords and bulk purchase power. Community pubs are finished in the main.
Agree with most of the points, but I think you should also mention the price of the beer. Checking out prices (for a project, not personally sampling) round Edinburgh, the prices seem to average out around £3.50/pint, max £6/pint, min £2/pint. While .5 litre (1 pint more or less) bottle costs from around £1.50 in a supermarket. In other words, the perception is that pubs do not give value for money.
Also home brewing is becoming very popular now, which the cost of the first batch, including all the reusable kit, works out at £1.50/pint, while every subsequent brew works out at less than 50p/pint. In matters of scale, breweries should brew at less than 10p a pint after all expenses. Tax then comes into the equation.
But like the dead tree media, as people stop using the product, you either cut costs and lower the quality leading to lower sales, or if you cannot cut the costs, you have to increase the prices at the customer facing level who won't buy if the same or similar product is available elsewhere leading to lower sales, or higher sales in the new alternative markets.
Well superrmarket undercutting is a major issue. They of course do mot have the overheads specific to alcohol sales and can sell booze as a loss leader and often do. I can tell you that pub companies who sell tied products (That's most non chain pubs) will charge about £120 plus VAT for a barrel of Fosters, so let's call it £1.40 a pint. With overheads your break even on that is over £3.30 a pint. Even wholesalers charge £80 plus VAT and more making your break Even £3 a pint and more. You can only sell for less if you're buying bulk like Wetherspoons or aren't putting it all through the books.
And yet despite a very poor Conservative campaign, the clear and entrenched Corbyn negatives helped to make sure that Labour failed to win the GE despite the Corbyn led protest style campaign which galvinised the far left and captured the imagination of young voters... Corbyn never even came close, not that the media have highlighted that fact in recent weeks...
That's straw clutching of the first order.
In case you've forgotten, May was supposed to win by a landslide and "crush" Labour under Jeremy Corbyn who, according to many on here, would be lucky to win 150 seats. Apparently, and this is a killer, the Conservatives were going to win Doncaster North and Bolsover because Grayling or some other Minister was seen canvassing.
Every Labour interview was a car crash, May was hugely popular serenely gliding her way toward a 100 or even a 150 seat majority. Would she do better than Margaret in 1983 we all gushed breathlessly ?
Yeah, right.
Labour did come close - it wouldn't have taken much for the Conservatives to shed another 10 seats making the deal with the DUP unworkable. OTOH, the Conservatives came close to an overall majority - it was that kind of result.
If the SNP collapsed back to Labour in Scotland, the Tories there having gone as far as they can go, Labour would clearly be very close.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
The football answer is simple in terms of supporting local boozers. Get rid of the stupid 3 o'clock Saturday ban on showing live matches and allow pubs to buy a subscription for all of a particular teams matches for the season. Guaranteed Saturday afternoon trade.
Plenty of pubs here show live streams from Thailand, for Leicester City away matches. Illegal, but certainly fills the place. I can see why pubs take the risk.
Tinternet has been another nail in the coffin, I now have the sorts of conversations on PB that I once had in the pub.
As you say, illegal and risky. Not least because if it's not a good stream and breaks down more than once or twice the punters go down the road and stay there for the evening too.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings. Pub chains exploit this with contracts that are so financially onerous they are almost guaranteed to fail. The chains literally go for broke because they know there are plenty more suckers to take their place. It's their business model.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
Making a profit out of a pub is far harder than most people realise, and a lot of people sink their savings into it, and lose the lot.
It is indeed. Outside of freehold owned pubs, the rent and pubco product ties are exorbitant. And there's the issue of attracting customers. You can put on entertainment, but rule of thumb is 3 times your expenditure in additional takings to break even. So you spend £300 on a quality local act who can attract customers and you've got to take 900 over your usual Saturday night take to break even. For a community pub that's a busy night and not without significant risk.
I would always advise against renting from Enterprise Inns, Punch Taverns, or any other chain. They suck you dry.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings.
I've never understood this dream - I recognise people have it as you say. But it looks a lot of work, high staff turnover and long hours....
Shittest career move ever. Not what it was 30 years ago, and then you have to act as community policeman without the limited respect such beings have, not the legal protection. If you live on site you're also a prime target for crime or petty vengeance.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings. Pub chains exploit this with contracts that are so financially onerous they are almost guaranteed to fail. The chains literally go for broke because they know there are plenty more suckers to take their place. It's their business model.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
Making a profit out of a pub is far harder than most people realise, and a lot of people sink their savings into it, and lose the lot.
It is indeed. Outside of freehold owned pubs, the rent and pubco product ties are exorbitant. And there's the issue of attracting customers. You can put on entertainment, but rule of thumb is 3 times your expenditure in additional takings to break even. So you spend £300 on a quality local act who can attract customers and you've got to take 900 over your usual Saturday night take to break even. For a community pub that's a busy night and not without significant risk.
I would always advise against renting from Enterprise Inns, Punch Taverns, or any other chain. They suck you dry.
Can you tell me that 5 years ago please? Enterprise. Scum.
I don't think too many are assuming Corbyn is a shoo-in at the next election, but equally, I think it a bit of a mistake to rely only on the election result and extrapolate from there while positing an improved Try campaign next time round.
Judging by the polls since, things were probably still moving Labour's way so that, had the election been a week later, it's possible that the result might have been very different. Corbyn's profile has, if anything, improved further since the election, while May has looked increasingly hapless It's not obvious how and when a new leader will take charge of the Conservatives to remedy the situation, or who that as yet unheralded paragon might be.
And I don't think your Brexit argument makes
To say that I am not thrilled by the prospect of Corbyn in government would be an understatement, but it is a real prospect.
The clock is ticking. Heseltine reckons 2% of the older voters die per year. They vote massively Tory, whereas we have just seen the under 45s are Corbyn now:
People have been saying Conservative support is dying off as long as I've been voting. In 1997, Labour led 48/29 among 25-34 year olds, but 20 years on, the same group were 43/40 Conservative.
Many of today's Corbynites will turn out to be tomorrow's Tories.
Not if levels of owner occupation continue to sink and the numbers of dodgy BTL landlords continues to rise, they won't.
BTL is becoming very unattractive financially, while construction output has risen sharply over the past four years, and house price rises have levelled off. I'd expect to see housing becoming more affordable in coming years.
Thanks to the SNP Government at Holyrood, the Scottish housing market is now totally screwed and basically on life support thanks to their economic incompetence! An issue I feel strongly about as I was planning to sell and buy again in Scotland in the next couple of years.
I'm not sensing the Scottish housing market is on life support - the most recent reports from the ESPC are pretty upbeat:
I don't think too many are assuming Corbyn is a shoo-in at the next election, but equally, I think it a bit of a mistake to rely only on the election result and extrapolate from there while positing an improved Try campaign next time round.
Judging by the polls since, things were probably still moving Labour's way so that, had the election been a week later, it's possible that the result might have been very different. Corbyn's profile has, if anything, improved further since the election, while May has looked increasingly hapless It's not obvious how and when a new leader will take charge of the Conservatives to remedy the situation, or who that as yet unheralded paragon might be.
And I don't think your Brexit argument makes
To say that I am not thrilled by the prospect of Corbyn in government would be an understatement, but it is a real prospect.
The clock is ticking. Heseltine reckons 2% of the older voters die per year. They vote massively Tory, whereas we have just seen the under 45s are Corbyn now:
People have been saying Conservative support is dying off as long as I've been voting. In 1997, Labour led 48/29 among 25-34 year olds, but 20 years on, the same group were 43/40 Conservative.
Many of today's Corbynites will turn out to be tomorrow's Tories.
Not if levels of owner occupation continue to sink and the numbers of dodgy BTL landlords continues to rise, they won't.
BTL is becoming very unattractive financially, while construction output has risen sharply over the past four years, and house price rises have levelled off. I'd expect to see housing becoming more affordable in coming years.
Thanks to the SNP Government at Holyrood, the Scottish housing market is now totally screwed and basically on life support thanks to their economic incompetence! An issue I feel strongly about as I was planning to sell and buy again in Scotland in the next couple of years.
I'm not sensing the Scottish housing market is on life support - the most recent reports from the ESPC are pretty upbeat:
Low numbers are not striking at all if respondents are asked to name only ONE thing from a long list.
I am not even sure there was a list - it looks like an unprompted write in survey to me (hence the catch-all categories May/Corbyn neutral, etc.). Write in surveys will always get a lower response because it requires effort, and is best interpreted as "what is the top thing you remember" about each campaign, as few respondents will scour their memory for every detail. It's also asking for recall a month or two later; something that influenced people then isn't necessarily remembered now, most people being distinctly uninvolved and uninterested by the antics of our politicians.
Yep did that survey - that question was an empty text box.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings.
I've never understood this dream - I recognise people have it as you say. But it looks a lot of work, high staff turnover and long hours....
Shittest career move ever. Not what it was 30 years ago, and then you have to act as community policeman without the limited respect such beings have, not the legal protection. If you live on site you're also a prime target for crime or petty vengeance.
Sounds like VoE!
Our generall;y reasonably respected local publican is apparently to retire in a year or so, and we wonder about his replacement. We’ve lost around 40 pubs in this village (4500 people) over the last 50 years.
Mind, there was probably over-supply to start with.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings.
I've never understood this dream - I recognise people have it as you say. But it looks a lot of work, high staff turnover and long hours....
Shittest career move ever. Not what it was 30 years ago, and then you have to act as community policeman without the limited respect such beings have, not the legal protection. If you live on site you're also a prime target for crime or petty vengeance.
Sounds like VoE!
Our generall;y reasonably respected local publican is apparently to retire in a year or so, and we wonder about his replacement. We’ve lost around 40 pubs in this village (4500 people) over the last 50 years.
Mind, there was probably over-supply to start with.
Yep. What savings I did have now lay in the fabric of a pub I no longer have anything to do with but I'd like to think is a rather better boozer now than the one I walked in to. TBH if ill health hadn't got me out I'd be in far worse straits than I am. Small mercies etc.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings. Pub chains exploit this with contracts that are so financially onerous they are almost guaranteed to fail. The chains literally go for broke because they know there are plenty more suckers to take their place. It's their business model.
I think the problem they are starting to discover is that there are far fewer suckers left than they used to be. People now know that the only way to make money is with food and that's probably disuading a lot of people from trying their hand...
More knee jerk reaction by people too dumb to understand what they are suggesting.
The dangerous stuff like acetic acid should clearly be banned.
There's a whole underworld of Prohibition to exploit.
psst, you want vinegar on those chips, mate? I know a bloke who can get you some, quiet, like, and it's not the really diluted stuff, proper hard 10% it is...
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings. Pub chains exploit this with contracts that are so financially onerous they are almost guaranteed to fail. The chains literally go for broke because they know there are plenty more suckers to take their place. It's their business model.
It was a traditional gig for ex-plod and Forces who left with redundancy.
Most of them thought that their skill-set would carry over but it didn't.
F1: very intriguing observation in the BBC livefeed of practice. Sauber's new boss, Vasseur, has said the Honda deal is something he has to look at. It's reportedly not signed and Honda's looking to leave F1. Vasseur is close to Wolff, and some think Sauber, historically close to Ferrari, might opt for a Mercedes engine instead. But Mercedes can only supply one more team.
Mr. B, well... those battling for the throne are mostly ruthless, pragmatic and very competent. Theresa May wouldn't last five minutes against Karena Penmere or Stuart Esden.
Just slightly too late for my holiday reading - but I shall order the first book.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
The football answer is simple in terms of supporting local boozers. Get rid of the stupid 3 o'clock Saturday ban on showing live matches and allow pubs to buy a subscription for all of a particular teams matches for the season. Guaranteed Saturday afternoon trade.
Plenty of pubs here show live streams from Thailand, for Leicester City away matches. Illegal, but certainly fills the place. I can see why pubs take the risk.
Tinternet has been another nail in the coffin, I now have the sorts of conversations on PB that I once had in the pub.
And with many of the regulars under the influence, to boot.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings.
I've never understood this dream - I recognise people have it as you say. But it looks a lot of work, high staff turnover and long hours....
Shittest career move ever. Not what it was 30 years ago, and then you have to act as community policeman without the limited respect such beings have, not the legal protection. If you live on site you're also a prime target for crime or petty vengeance.
Sounds like VoE!
Our generall;y reasonably respected local publican is apparently to retire in a year or so, and we wonder about his replacement. We’ve lost around 40 pubs in this village (4500 people) over the last 50 years.
Mind, there was probably over-supply to start with.
Yep. What savings I did have now lay in the fabric of a pub I no longer have anything to do with but I'd like to think is a rather better boozer now than the one I walked in to. TBH if ill health hadn't got me out I'd be in far worse straits than I am. Small mercies etc.
The landlord in my local retired ten years ago, saying the 'games over, there's no future in this kind of urban pub'. He was right. Three or four owners and a couple of bankruptcies later, the place is now mainly a curry house, with a small public bar attached.
Only things opening around my patch are micro-pubs, which are interesting, but soon lose their novelty compared to the real thing.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings. Pub chains exploit this with contracts that are so financially onerous they are almost guaranteed to fail. The chains literally go for broke because they know there are plenty more suckers to take their place. It's their business model.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
City centre pubs will survive, as will some sports bars in suburbs, and some village pubs that evolve into restaurants with a bar attached. I reckon a decline of another 50-75% judging by how busy most pubs are now. One Friday night at about 8 o clock I popped into my local, and the barstaff outnumbered the customers. It does good beer, and used to be heaving, but now only when showing matches (and I think the Sky sub makes that a bit borderline financially).
Making a profit out of a pub is far harder than most people realise, and a lot of people sink their savings into it, and lose the lot.
It is indeed. Outside of freehold owned pubs, the rent and pubco product ties are exorbitant. And there's the issue of attracting customers. You can put on entertainment, but rule of thumb is 3 times your expenditure in additional takings to break even. So you spend £300 on a quality local act who can attract customers and you've got to take 900 over your usual Saturday night take to break even. For a community pub that's a busy night and not without significant risk.
I would always advise against renting from Enterprise Inns, Punch Taverns, or any other chain. They suck you dry.
It is high time the government did something about the pub trade, as CAMRA have been arguing for years.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings. Pub chains exploit this with contracts that are so financially onerous they are almost guaranteed to fail. The chains literally go for broke because they know there are plenty more suckers to take their place. It's their business model.
It was a traditional gig for ex-plod and Forces who left with redundancy.
Most of them thought that their skill-set would carry over but it didn't.
And always has been - there are plenty of Marquess of Granby pubs, named by soldiers upon demob after service under the Marquess of Granby. Some say he set them up in the pubs.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings. Pub chains exploit this with contracts that are so financially onerous they are almost guaranteed to fail. The chains literally go for broke because they know there are plenty more suckers to take their place. It's their business model.
I think the problem they are starting to discover is that there are far fewer suckers left than they used to be. People now know that the only way to make money is with food and that's probably disuading a lot of people from trying their hand...
Even if you make a decent living, you're probably working 70+ hours a week.
F1: very intriguing observation in the BBC livefeed of practice. Sauber's new boss, Vasseur, has said the Honda deal is something he has to look at. It's reportedly not signed and Honda's looking to leave F1. Vasseur is close to Wolff, and some think Sauber, historically close to Ferrari, might opt for a Mercedes engine instead. But Mercedes can only supply one more team.
If they supply Sauber they cannot supply McLaren.
FP1 not looking great for your Raikkonen punt - and if Verstappen makes it to the end of the race, I think he will have the beating of Ricciardo here.
Running a pub is a popular lifestyle activity for people who used to be in good jobs and have some savings. Pub chains exploit this with contracts that are so financially onerous they are almost guaranteed to fail. The chains literally go for broke because they know there are plenty more suckers to take their place. It's their business model.
I think the problem they are starting to discover is that there are far fewer suckers left than they used to be. People now know that the only way to make money is with food and that's probably disuading a lot of people from trying their hand...
Even if you make a decent living, you're probably working 70+ hours a week.
Yes this is something I've never understood. The aim surely is to do well enough to get a manager but I'm guessing very few pass this threshold.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline. It goes back to the changes in the late 80s, coupled now with cheap supermarket booze. The pub companies that replaced the old breweries are further killing the industry with their tied products policies and idiotic rents. The only way to make money in a pub now is to own the freehold or be a chain like Wetherspoons with managers rather than landlords and bulk purchase power. Community pubs are finished in the main.
Also home brewing is becoming very popular now, which the cost of the first batch, including all the reusable kit, works out at £1.50/pint, while every subsequent brew works out at less than 50p/pint. In matters of scale, breweries should brew at less than 10p a pint after all expenses. Tax then comes into the equation.
But like the dead tree media, as people stop using the product, you either cut costs and lower the quality leading to lower sales, or if you cannot cut the costs, you have to increase the prices at the customer facing level who won't buy if the same or similar product is available elsewhere leading to lower sales, or higher sales in the new alternative markets.
Well superrmarket undercutting is a major issue. They of course do mot have the overheads specific to alcohol sales and can sell booze as a loss leader and often do. I can tell you that pub companies who sell tied products (That's most non chain pubs) will charge about £120 plus VAT for a barrel of Fosters, so let's call it £1.40 a pint. With overheads your break even on that is over £3.30 a pint. Even wholesalers charge £80 plus VAT and more making your break Even £3 a pint and more. You can only sell for less if you're buying bulk like Wetherspoons or aren't putting it all through the books.
I just worked out that Tesco, selling 18 x 440ml cans of Stella online for £13, are doing it for £0.93 a pint. That does seem very cheap. 58p a unit.
Is it right that the weekly units limit for men and women is now 14? 1.5 bottles of wine a week?
Even if you make a decent living, you're probably working 70+ hours a week.
One of my oldest friends runs a hotel in Cornwall. For a while, he did lunches, dinners and afternoon teas and it was unremitting toil which took a heavy toll on his health. He was basically working from 6am to 10pm seven days a week especially in high season and his hotel was open 11 months of the year so he had trade out of season as well.
He's now back doing just B&B which means an early start but once breakfast is over and his wife and their chambermaid do the rooms (it's a 16-room hotel), the rest of the day is largely theirs and it's given them a new lease of life.
In the past, people and especially families liked to dine in the hotel but as more restaurants and other eating options emerged he was offering a service which no one wanted. People also wanted to eat at odd hours and generally later. He's not sorry to have let that go - the restaurant is now the Guest Lounge.
The local café in the Barking Road I frequent opens from 7am to 4pm seven days a week. There are quieter spells - mid morning and mid afternoon - but they do a big breakfast and lunch trade. It's hard work and I couldn't do it.
Incidentally thanks to whoever recommended Sansom's Dominion the other day - I downloaded it, am about a quarter of the way into it and it knocks spots off Fatherland or SS-GB so far.
More knee jerk reaction by people too dumb to understand what they are suggesting.
The dangerous stuff like acetic acid should clearly be banned.
There's a whole underworld of Prohibition to exploit.
psst, you want vinegar on those chips, mate? I know a bloke who can get you some, quiet, like, and it's not the really diluted stuff, proper hard 10% it is...
Yep. On a more serious note it would amaze people I think if they knew how many.people use acids in daily life either for work or hobbies. Of course the immediate and wrong reaction is always to ban stuff.
Think of it as a good thing - the photo (and the other retweets) make it easier to spot and scroll past his comments.
Scott's whining is overwhelmed by the even more ubiquitous, and every bit as tedious drone of his detractors.
Nope. Scott simply reports any old bollocks he thinks shows Brexit in a bad light with no thought or comment. At least most of those opposing him actually make considered contributions to the site. Scott is basically s waste of bandwidth.
More knee jerk reaction by people too dumb to understand what they are suggesting.
The dangerous stuff like acetic acid should clearly be banned.
There's a whole underworld of Prohibition to exploit.
psst, you want vinegar on those chips, mate? I know a bloke who can get you some, quiet, like, and it's not the really diluted stuff, proper hard 10% it is...
Yep. On a more serious note it would amaze people I think if they knew how many.people use acids in daily life either for work or hobbies. Of course the immediate and wrong reaction iscdlways to ban stuff.
They aren't saying ban, they are saying licence, and I guess they would specify type and concentration rather than everything everywhere with pH<7. Just demanding and keeping a copy of ID would probably do the trick, and doesn't seem disproportionate given the vileness of the crime. Utterly eyewatering exemplary sentences for acid attacks are certainly required.
More knee jerk reaction by people too dumb to understand what they are suggesting.
The dangerous stuff like acetic acid should clearly be banned.
There's a whole underworld of Prohibition to exploit.
psst, you want vinegar on those chips, mate? I know a bloke who can get you some, quiet, like, and it's not the really diluted stuff, proper hard 10% it is...
Yep. On a more serious note it would amaze people I think if they knew how many.people use acids in daily life either for work or hobbies. Of course the immediate and wrong reaction iscdlways to ban stuff.
They aren't saying ban, they are saying licence, and I guess they would specify type and concentration rather than everything everywhere with pH<7. Just demanding and keeping a copy of ID would probably do the trick, and doesn't seem disproportionate given the vileness of the crime. Utterly eyewatering exemplary sentences for acid attacks are certainly required.</p>
I agree with yiur sentencing comments but transfer your licence idea to knives - every type of knife - and see how sensible or not it sounds. Government regulation is not the answer.
More knee jerk reaction by people too dumb to understand what they are suggesting.
The dangerous stuff like acetic acid should clearly be banned.
There's a whole underworld of Prohibition to exploit.
psst, you want vinegar on those chips, mate? I know a bloke who can get you some, quiet, like, and it's not the really diluted stuff, proper hard 10% it is...
Yep. On a more serious note it would amaze people I think if they knew how many.people use acids in daily life either for work or hobbies. Of course the immediate and wrong reaction iscdlways to ban stuff.
They aren't saying ban, they are saying licence, and I guess they would specify type and concentration rather than everything everywhere with pH<7. Just demanding and keeping a copy of ID would probably do the trick, and doesn't seem disproportionate given the vileness of the crime. Utterly eyewatering exemplary sentences for acid attacks are certainly required.</p>
I agree with yiur sentencing comments but transfer your licence idea to knives - every type of knife - and see how sensible or not it sounds. Government regulation is not the answer.
I am saying requiring ID at point of sale would be enough. Seems to work with alcohol sales to under 18s. And/or require that photo evidence of purchasers is taken and kept - this already happens in lots of shops via cctv, without the system grinding to a halt.
More knee jerk reaction by people too dumb to understand what they are suggesting.
The dangerous stuff like acetic acid should clearly be banned.
There's a whole underworld of Prohibition to exploit.
psst, you want vinegar on those chips, mate? I know a bloke who can get you some, quiet, like, and it's not the really diluted stuff, proper hard 10% it is...
Yep. On a more serious note it would amaze people I think if they knew how many.people use acids in daily life either for work or hobbies. Of course the immediate and wrong reaction iscdlways to ban stuff.
They aren't saying ban, they are saying licence, and I guess they would specify type and concentration rather than everything everywhere with pH<7. Just demanding and keeping a copy of ID would probably do the trick, and doesn't seem disproportionate given the vileness of the crime. Utterly eyewatering exemplary sentences for acid attacks are certainly required.</p>
I agree with yiur sentencing comments but transfer your licence idea to knives - every type of knife - and see how sensible or not it sounds. Government regulation is not the answer.
It's the old story when it comes to legislating, people seem to want the 2017 Act of Me....... Hereby suspending all rights, privileges and freedoms for which I have no use that may, upon my approval, be temporarily reinstated for such period as I have use for them due to my being a good citizen not a git like all them others.
Mr. Woolie, just like taxes. Everybody supports taxes on those rich bastards to pay for vital services, where rich bastards are everyone who earns more than the person speaking and vital services are ones used by the person speaking.
More knee jerk reaction by people too dumb to understand what they are suggesting.
The dangerous stuff like acetic acid should clearly be banned.
There's a whole underworld of Prohibition to exploit.
psst, you want vinegar on those chips, mate? I know a bloke who can get you some, quiet, like, and it's not the really diluted stuff, proper hard 10% it is...
Yep. On a more serious note it would amaze people I think if they knew how many.people use acids in daily life either for work or hobbies. Of course the immediate and wrong reaction iscdlways to ban stuff.
They aren't saying ban, they are saying licence, and I guess they would specify type and concentration rather than everything everywhere with pH<7. Just demanding and keeping a copy of ID would probably do the trick, and doesn't seem disproportionate given the vileness of the crime. Utterly eyewatering exemplary sentences for acid attacks are certainly required.</p>
I agree with yiur sentencing comments but transfer your licence idea to knives - every type of knife - and see how sensible or not it sounds. Government regulation is not the answer.
It's the old story when it comes to legislating, people seem to want the 2017 Act of Me....... Hereby suspending all rights, privileges and freedoms for which I have no use that may, upon my approval, be temporarily reinstated for such period as I have use for them due to my being a good citizen not a git like all them others.
Yes, sure, but it's about proportionality, isn't it? When I buy weedkiller to get rid of docks I have to sign a statement to the effect that I am professionally trained in its use, and I have to produce a certificate to buy shotgun ammunition. I promise you it doesn't feel like living under the Third Reich.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
All 3 (+ the working men's club) in my village seem to be doing ok.
Well if you are visiting all four of them, they must be doing something right.
More knee jerk reaction by people too dumb to understand what they are suggesting.
The dangerous stuff like acetic acid should clearly be banned.
There's a whole underworld of Prohibition to exploit.
psst, you want vinegar on those chips, mate? I know a bloke who can get you some, quiet, like, and it's not the really diluted stuff, proper hard 10% it is...
Yep. On a more serious note it would amaze people I think if they knew how many.people use acids in daily life either for work or hobbies. Of course the immediate and wrong reaction iscdlways to ban stuff.
They aren't saying ban, they are saying licence, and I guess they would specify type and concentration rather than everything everywhere with pH<7. Just demanding and keeping a copy of ID would probably do the trick, and doesn't seem disproportionate given the vileness of the crime. Utterly eyewatering exemplary sentences for acid attacks are certainly required.</p>
I agree with yiur sentencing comments but transfer your licence idea to knives - every type of knife - and see how sensible or not it sounds. Government regulation is not the answer.
I am saying requiring ID at point of sale would be enough. Seems to work with alcohol sales to under 18s. And/or require that photo evidence of purchasers is taken and kept - this already happens in lots of shops via cctv, without the system grinding to a halt.
Unlicensed villains could presumably get acid from the batteries on the mopeds or cars they drive to the scene of the crime, so I'm not sure that licensing would help much. In any case, bleach would do at a pinch -- available from any supermarket and most launderettes.
Photo or cctv id will not help as there is no way to link any particular sample of acid used in an attack back to its sale. It's not like matching bullets to the gun that fired them.
On sentencing, one advantage over knives is acid cannot lead to a charge of attempted murder (or even actual murder if things go wrong) -- and increasing the sentence too much risks the "may as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb" problem.
And it's as much bollocks as is was last time they did it 3 years ago. The NHS ranks highly on stuff like care equity but is 10th out of 11 on actually keeping people alive and making them better. Basically they treat everyone equally badly
It's like claiming Southern is the best rail service provider because they make everyone equally late .
The NHS has been judged the best, safest and most affordable healthcare system out of 11 countries analysed and ranked by experts from the influential Commonwealth Fund health thinktank.
It is the second time in a row that the study, which is undertaken every three years, has found the UK to have the highest-rated health system.
The NHS has held on to the top spot despite the longest budget squeeze in its 69-year history, serious understaffing and the disruption caused by a radical restructuring of the service in England in 2013.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline....
Do you think there is a future Britain with no pubs?
All 3 (+ the working men's club) in my village seem to be doing ok.
Well if you are visiting all four of them, they must be doing something right.
The Nag's head is always busy on evenings as I walk past, the Nethergreen has a good selection of live bands, and is a village staple. The Midland has recently had new management and has improved alot - it has good reviews on the village facebook page. I don't visit "The Crown" too much, but @bigjohnowls went there a while back and was pleased I think. Its perhaps the quietest, but the most upmarket.
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline. It goes back to the changes in the late 80s, coupled now with cheap supermarket booze. The pub companies that replaced the old breweries are further killing the industry with their tied products policies and idiotic rents. The only way to make money in a pub now is to own the freehold or be a chain like Wetherspoons with managers rather than landlords and bulk purchase power. Community pubs are finished in the main.
Also home brewing is becoming very popular now, which the cost of the first batch, including all the reusable kit, works out at £1.50/pint, while every subsequent brew works out at less than 50p/pint. In matters of scale, breweries should brew at less than 10p a pint after all expenses. Tax then comes into the equation.
But like the dead tree media, as people stop using the product, you either cut costs and lower the quality leading to lower sales, or if you cannot cut the costs, you have to increase the prices at the customer facing level who won't buy if the same or similar product is available elsewhere leading to lower sales, or higher sales in the new alternative markets.
Well superrmarket undercutting is a major issue. They of course do mot have the overheads specific to alcohol sales and can sell booze as a loss leader and often do. I can tell you that pub companies who sell tied products (That's most non chain pubs) will charge about £120 plus VAT for a barrel of Fosters, so let's call it £1.40 a pint. With overheads your break even on that is over £3.30 a pint. Even wholesalers charge £80 plus VAT and more making your break Even £3 a pint and more. You can only sell for less if you're buying bulk like Wetherspoons or aren't putting it all through the books.
I just worked out that Tesco, selling 18 x 440ml cans of Stella online for £13, are doing it for £0.93 a pint. That does seem very cheap. 58p a unit.
Is it right that the weekly units limit for men and women is now 14? 1.5 bottles of wine a week?
The gastropubs' closures are blamed on Brexit, lower takings, 50% rent rises and the last straw was the election result, so I think we can all agree it is Theresa May's fault.
The pub industry is in fatal decline. It goes back to the changes in the late 80s, coupled now with cheap supermarket booze. The pub companies that replaced the old breweries are further killing the industry with their tied products policies and idiotic rents. The only way to make money in a pub now is to own the freehold or be a chain like Wetherspoons with managers rather than landlords and bulk purchase power. Community pubs are finished in the main.
Well superrmarket undercutting is a major issue. They of course do mot have the overheads specific to alcohol sales and can sell booze as a loss leader and often do. I can tell you that pub companies who sell tied products (That's most non chain pubs) will charge about £120 plus VAT for a barrel of Fosters, so let's call it £1.40 a pint. With overheads your break even on that is over £3.30 a pint. Even wholesalers charge £80 plus VAT and more making your break Even £3 a pint and more. You can only sell for less if you're buying bulk like Wetherspoons or aren't putting it all through the books.
I just worked out that Tesco, selling 18 x 440ml cans of Stella online for £13, are doing it for £0.93 a pint. That does seem very cheap. 58p a unit.
Is it right that the weekly units limit for men and women is now 14? 1.5 bottles of wine a week?
Damn, I thought it was 1.5 bottles a day
Back in the seventies when I started drinking wine I remember the editor of the Sunday Times Wine Guide (top tip, Bulgarian Cab Sav) opining that 'a bottle a day did not seem excessive and he knew people who happily drank two....'. The old joke is 'an alcoholic is someone who drinks more than their doctor' - that said I read the detailed stats behind the drink limits and you had to drink titanic quantities - around two bottles a day - to increase your chances of early death by 10%.....and teetotallers don't live longer (actually, they don't) - it just feels longer.....
Ms. Forethought, it's unscientific, innumerate idiocy that men and women have the same alcohol limits. It's PC bullshit trumping fact-based evidence, and sends the very dangerous signal that, in general, women have the same alcohol tolerance as men.
Still, if a load of women get alcohol poisoning they wouldn't've otherwise gotten, at least they can rest (or die) safe in the knowledge that they were treated just the same as men. Despite not having as much blood in their bodies, decreasing their tolerance for alcohol.
The first consequence is that the government has awarded itself vastly excessive executive power. The task of melding EU and UK law is, despite the silly claim of Bernard Jenkin that it is a cinch, very tangled. The government will have to take powers from the Statute of Proclamations 1539 to correct anomalies as they arise. The first major constitutional event of this country’s vaunted post-EU freedom will therefore be ministers exercising powers to amend legislation without parliamentary scrutiny. If some future Fox or Leadsom wants to rub out workers’ rights or environmental protection at the stroke of a pen, they will be able to do so. Oh, sovereignty, how wonderful it will be.
Just one example among the hundreds of oddities that will occur. Adopting EU law means that Britain would be bound into the European Medicines Agency (EMA). Not surprisingly, however, EU law presupposes membership of the EU, which is a condition of being in the EMA. The withdrawal bill will therefore need a detailed addendum, passed by ministerial fiat, authorising the new regulator. Which does not exist. Repeat this process hundreds of times, against a clock that is ticking and I give you the shambles that is the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill.
Comments
It's still about supply, demand, type and location. The housing requirements for London are not going to be the same as for rural Devon.
Choice tbh I think may rise...
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/16/13/355937FE00000578-3644716-image-a-12_1466079186351.jpg
I first read that as: Do you think there is a future Britain with no pb?
*composes himself*
Mr Stodge Senior is a member of CAMRA and even at his advanced years enjoys his ale but he also enjoys a decent slab of sea bream or trout with his ale. I can think of a dozen pubs within a few minutes of where he lives where he gets both the ale he likes and an excellent lunch,
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Although one client struck gold. He took a 20 year sub-sub lease on a pub in central London, and the Head Landlord wished to redevelop the block. He was the last occupant of the block, and the Head Landlord paid him £3.5 m to leave.
In case you've forgotten, May was supposed to win by a landslide and "crush" Labour under Jeremy Corbyn who, according to many on here, would be lucky to win 150 seats. Apparently, and this is a killer, the Conservatives were going to win Doncaster North and Bolsover because Grayling or some other Minister was seen canvassing.
Every Labour interview was a car crash, May was hugely popular serenely gliding her way toward a 100 or even a 150 seat majority. Would she do better than Margaret in 1983 we all gushed breathlessly ?
Yeah, right.
Labour did come close - it wouldn't have taken much for the Conservatives to shed another 10 seats making the deal with the DUP unworkable. OTOH, the Conservatives came close to an overall majority - it was that kind of result.
I'd be paying slightly less stamp on my prospective purchase if I was moving in Scotland...
Also home brewing is becoming very popular now, which the cost of the first batch, including all the reusable kit, works out at £1.50/pint, while every subsequent brew works out at less than 50p/pint. In matters of scale, breweries should brew at less than 10p a pint after all expenses. Tax then comes into the equation.
But like the dead tree media, as people stop using the product, you either cut costs and lower the quality leading to lower sales, or if you cannot cut the costs, you have to increase the prices at the customer facing level who won't buy if the same or similar product is available elsewhere leading to lower sales, or higher sales in the new alternative markets.
Tinternet has been another nail in the coffin, I now have the sorts of conversations on PB that I once had in the pub.
Even wholesalers charge £80 plus VAT and more making your break Even £3 a pint and more.
You can only sell for less if you're buying bulk like Wetherspoons or aren't putting it all through the books.
But it looks a lot of work, high staff turnover and long hours....
https://espc.com/news/espc-house-price-report-infographic-june-2017
https://espc.com/news/espc-house-price-report-june-2017
Average time to sell 16 days !!
Our generall;y reasonably respected local publican is apparently to retire in a year or so, and we wonder about his replacement. We’ve lost around 40 pubs in this village (4500 people) over the last 50 years.
Mind, there was probably over-supply to start with.
TBH if ill health hadn't got me out I'd be in far worse straits than I am. Small mercies etc.
There's a whole underworld of Prohibition to exploit.
psst, you want vinegar on those chips, mate? I know a bloke who can get you some, quiet, like, and it's not the really diluted stuff, proper hard 10% it is...
Most of them thought that their skill-set would carry over but it didn't.
So Scott's still whining about the bus then?
Think of it as a good thing - the photo (and the other retweets) make it easier to spot and scroll past his comments.
If they supply Sauber they cannot supply McLaren.
Only things opening around my patch are micro-pubs, which are interesting, but soon lose their novelty compared to the real thing.
Is it right that the weekly units limit for men and women is now 14? 1.5 bottles of wine a week?
GeoffM Posts: 5,556
Yeah. I'm overwhelming the poor retweeter.
He's now back doing just B&B which means an early start but once breakfast is over and his wife and their chambermaid do the rooms (it's a 16-room hotel), the rest of the day is largely theirs and it's given them a new lease of life.
In the past, people and especially families liked to dine in the hotel but as more restaurants and other eating options emerged he was offering a service which no one wanted. People also wanted to eat at odd hours and generally later. He's not sorry to have let that go - the restaurant is now the Guest Lounge.
The local café in the Barking Road I frequent opens from 7am to 4pm seven days a week. There are quieter spells - mid morning and mid afternoon - but they do a big breakfast and lunch trade. It's hard work and I couldn't do it.
Verstappen and Ricciardo are closely matched, and Verstappen's had rotten luck of late.
Raikkonen's a long shot but the odds were excessive.
Hereby suspending all rights, privileges and freedoms for which I have no use that may, upon my approval, be temporarily reinstated for such period as I have use for them due to my being a good citizen not a git like all them others.
Photo or cctv id will not help as there is no way to link any particular sample of acid used in an attack back to its sale. It's not like matching bullets to the gun that fired them.
On sentencing, one advantage over knives is acid cannot lead to a charge of attempted murder (or even actual murder if things go wrong) -- and increasing the sentence too much risks the "may as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb" problem.
It's like claiming Southern is the best rail service provider because they make everyone equally late
.
The NHS has been judged the best, safest and most affordable healthcare system out of 11 countries analysed and ranked by experts from the influential Commonwealth Fund health thinktank.
It is the second time in a row that the study, which is undertaken every three years, has found the UK to have the highest-rated health system.
The NHS has held on to the top spot despite the longest budget squeeze in its 69-year history, serious understaffing and the disruption caused by a radical restructuring of the service in England in 2013.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/14/nhs-holds-on-to-top-spot-in-healthcare-survey
I'm shocked.
The Midland has recently had new management and has improved alot - it has good reviews on the village facebook page.
I don't visit "The Crown" too much, but @bigjohnowls went there a while back and was pleased I think. Its perhaps the quietest, but the most upmarket.
Still, if a load of women get alcohol poisoning they wouldn't've otherwise gotten, at least they can rest (or die) safe in the knowledge that they were treated just the same as men. Despite not having as much blood in their bodies, decreasing their tolerance for alcohol.
*sighs* It beggars belief.
Just one example among the hundreds of oddities that will occur. Adopting EU law means that Britain would be bound into the European Medicines Agency (EMA). Not surprisingly, however, EU law presupposes membership of the EU, which is a condition of being in the EMA. The withdrawal bill will therefore need a detailed addendum, passed by ministerial fiat, authorising the new regulator. Which does not exist. Repeat this process hundreds of times, against a clock that is ticking and I give you the shambles that is the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5df93632-67f9-11e7-9b7b-d051f7c13c06
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/885588047311642626
And the Brexit cheerleaders here still in denial...