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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If or when Theresa May is replaced her successor shouldn’t hol

SystemSystem Posts: 11,703
edited July 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If or when Theresa May is replaced her successor shouldn’t hold a snap election (or even think about it)

The last ten years in British politics have been the most dramatic ten years I can recall in peace time. We’ve had, inter alia, the great financial crisis, the coalition government, the Scottish Independence referendum, the SNP tsunami, the Lib Dem wipe out of 2015, which saw David Cameron become the only Tory to win a majority in the last 25 years, the rise of Corbyn, and of course Brexit.

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  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited July 2017
    Ah, but will people stop complaining about their lack of mandate? I think not. :smiley:

    BTW - Love the star wars reference!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Agree on the point about calling elections - while there were many factors behind the GE17 result, calling it early played a part. So just as Mrs May should ignore calls to go now, her successor in summer 2019 should ignore calls for an election. The Tories should soldier on to 2022 - they've made their bed, they should lie in it.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    The numbers for nursing student applications not good at all - down 19% - and a fall in overall student applications for next year:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40581643
  • Options
    FPT

    Iain Martin in The Times screams for Theresa May to go and go soon. I think just about everyone agrees (including probably La May herself) and on that basis, Coral's 5/2 against her departing this year looks like very fair value to me.
    DYOR!

    Unsurprisingly, Ladbrokes offer the same bet.
  • Options
    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited July 2017
    Blimey .... that even beats the worst of the apos'trophe apos'tles' on PB.com!
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    Housing market flat on its back:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40581912
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think her successor, rather than predecessor, will not be calling a snap election, in paragraph 3.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797

    I think her successor, rather than predecessor, will not be calling a snap election, in paragraph 3.

    I don't think either will, somehow.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Blimey .... that even beats the worst of the apos'trophe apos'tles' on PB.com!
    I have never seen the word "maven" before , or at least do not recall doing so, apparently it is of N American origin..
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    R.I.P. Pandulf & Landulf
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited July 2017
    Nigelb said:

    The numbers for nursing student applications not good at all - down 19% - and a fall in overall student applications for next year:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40581643

    The NHS is the sacred cow of the public sector, and its going to keep costing an ever increasing budget to fund. But it is now time to admit the biggest efficiency saving blunder in the modern NHS, ditching the old and highly recommended module nurse training system. The first Government that proposes and finds the cash to ditch the current tuition led nursing degree and can find the funding to return to the old module system with up to four nursing intakes a year will be onto a win win situation that could well prove to be the best investment in a service now suffering from an ever growing long term shortage of both student and trained nurses on our wards.

    Going back to paying our student nurses a small wage to renumerate their far wider and longer prescence on the wards as part of the ward rotas is the answer. That and going back to providing very cheap student nurse accomadation will almost instantly relieve the current nursing shortages on our wards while providing world class hands on training for our future nurses. Problem solved.

    It would also remove a now automatic negative Brexit story, what is not to like?
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    YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    The Sun interview suggests the situation is dire and she knows it. She's trying to hang on long enough to get into the Callaghan and Brown league of a few years rather go down in history as one the shortest serving ever. And of course hanging on till Brexit Day will give her a genuine legacy however rancid. While her public haggling with her own party very her departure date is curiously honest it just has the smell of death over it. Curiously I think the biggest shirt term threat to her know are Brexiteers. Her function was to absorb the Brexit radiation dose. If she's too weak to do that then she threatens Brexit. If things continue to deteriorate we could see an early push for a new PM as the only way to save the project. She seems to know that as things stand she'll either go to reverse Brexit, to save Brexit or as soon as Brexit is over. So she's accepting publically the later as it gives her the longest time in office and says to both sides of Brexit chasm. Cling to nurse for fear of something worse. I'd say it's unsustainable but who in their right mind would predict anything at the moment ?
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The numbers for nursing student applications not good at all - down 19% - and a fall in overall student applications for next year:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40581643

    The NHS is the sacred cow of the public sector, and its going to keep costing an ever increasing budget to fund. But it is now time to admit the biggest efficiency saving blunder in the modern NHS, ditching the old and highly recommended module nurse training system. The first Government that proposes and finds the cash to ditch the current tuition led nursing degree and can find the funding to return to the old module system with up to four nursing intakes a year will be onto a win win situation that could well prove to be the best investment in a service now suffering from an ever growing long term shortage of both student and trained nurses on our wards.

    Going back to paying our student nurses a small wage to renumerate their far wider and longer prescence on the wards as part of the ward rotas is the answer. That and going back to providing very cheap student nurse accomadation will almost instantly relieve the current nursing shortages on our wards while providing world class hands on training for our future nurses. Problem solved.

    It would also remove a now automatic negative Brexit story, what is not to like?
    30 years of educationalists running riot has had its effects everywhere, pushing down standards and increasing costs, not just in nursing.

    I don't see the finances as being the biggest threat to health care in the UK, so much as recruitment and retention.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,790
    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:



    Our world outlooks are just so different. We've not been ruled by fascists or Communists, so we don't see the EU as the guarantor of our liberties; we don't want a world without borders; we don't see supranational institutions as a good thing. We see the EU as about trade, rather than political union. As Robert Smithson has repeatedly pointed out, we're a bad fit.

    True. However the EU is the only show in town in Europe. Deal with it we must, and on their terms. We made life a lot more difficult for ourselves. People haven't cottoned on yet just how difficult. That includes the man supposedly leading the negotiations for us.
    You make it sound like The Borg. Join it, because resistance is futile.
    From last night, if I may, because that's obviously not the case at all. Our European neighbors may have a different and, if you wish, incompatible worldview, but it's not a lesser one. The EU upholds democracy, personal liberty and the rule of law, both domestically and internationally. Those are my values and I hope those of my fellow country people. The EU is both different and better in my opinion than Russia, say, or China. Resistance is futile is a ridiculous way to describe an organisation we would want to deal with, whether inside it our out.

    The problem is that Brexit is built on several very false premises. One of them is that we can disconnect and everything will carry on as before. We want to continue to trade with Europe, the continent we are part of, keep our international nuclear processes going, continue to fly through open skies and so on and so on. The EU covers all this through membership and we are going back to them and saying, we don't want your membership but please replicate everything just for us and by the way we won't accept the jurisdiction of your courts, application of your laws and any other conditions you impose on us as part of the agreement.

    The EU hasn't decided what it wants to do about membership. They are a membership organisation and want to keep it that way. Any associate relationship will have to be much less than full membership. They learnt their lesson on that with Brexit. In the meantime we will be the ones scrabbling to sort something out.

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    edited July 2017
    Saturday mornings Spectator article:

    "Boris, though, has had it even worse than most frontrunners. His problem is that there are not one but four groups who have it in for him. The Cameron/Osborne gang will never forgive him for ending the career of both their king and their dauphin, and they are determined to stop him claiming the crown. Their desire for vengeance blinds them to the fact his liberal Toryism means he is closer to the Cameron project than nearly any of the other contenders.

    "The second lot are the Tory Europhiles who blame Boris for the referendum result. Then come the May ultras, who regarded Boris as the most immediate threat and so put him in the frame for leadership in order to make him an obvious target. Then there are the men of government who are offended by his unconventional path to one of the great offices of state; I am told that Philip Hammond is ‘obsessed by Boris’. It is little wonder that even the Foreign Secretary’s friends have been reduced to declaring that ‘every-one’s out for Boris’."


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/07/everyones-out-for-boris/

    "He has taken to waking up at 5.30 a.m. to read the papers online and, too often, also the angry comments about him, a dispiriting experience for anyone."

    p.s. Good Morning, Boris, you idiot!

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Yes, they are saying that Brexit is relying upon government delivering a massive IT project on time and with no glitches, pretty much for the first time ever, or there will be chaos.

    An outcome like that and the Tories are out of power for many years.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Why anonymity on forums matters:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40580196
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    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,233
    Beginning to enjoy the Brexit situation now. The Tory pigeons are in everyone's sights as they circle the roost. It's popcorn time.

    The least worst option increasingly looks like humiliating climbdown, hopefully preceded by an apology to the people of Britain, ideally from Boris.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Beginning to enjoy the Brexit situation now. The Tory pigeons are in everyone's sights as they circle the roost. It's popcorn time.

    The least worst option increasingly looks like humiliating climbdown, hopefully preceded by an apology to the people of Britain, ideally from Boris.

    Why would there be a humiliating climb down when all the main parties are committed to Brexit? :p
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    Nigelb said:

    Housing market flat on its back:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40581912

    I asked this the last time these figures came out, but are people selling their homes online and avoiding estate agents completely?
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,233
    RobD said:

    Beginning to enjoy the Brexit situation now. The Tory pigeons are in everyone's sights as they circle the roost. It's popcorn time.

    The least worst option increasingly looks like humiliating climbdown, hopefully preceded by an apology to the people of Britain, ideally from Boris.

    Why would there be a humiliating climb down when all the main parties are committed to Brexit? :p
    The main parties, or at least one of them is, are committed to Brexit for as long as it appears to be achievable, and without massive damage. Things can change. I'm cool with BINO anyway.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,058
    edited July 2017
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.
    And Remainers are accused of whistling in the wind.
  • Options
    MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,233
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Housing market flat on its back:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40581912

    I asked this the last time these figures came out, but are people selling their homes online and avoiding estate agents completely?
    Our house went on the market 8 weeks ago and I've been surprised how few viewings we've had. I suspect we're probably overpriced now - although we wouldn't have been 12 months ago.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    edited July 2017
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.
    What is it about Brexit that makes people think wishful thinking can be passed off as analysis?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    RobD said:

    Beginning to enjoy the Brexit situation now. The Tory pigeons are in everyone's sights as they circle the roost. It's popcorn time.

    The least worst option increasingly looks like humiliating climbdown, hopefully preceded by an apology to the people of Britain, ideally from Boris.

    Why would there be a humiliating climb down when all the main parties are committed to Brexit? :p
    Poor trolling!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Housing market flat on its back:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40581912

    I asked this the last time these figures came out, but are people selling their homes online and avoiding estate agents completely?
    Our house went on the market 8 weeks ago and I've been surprised how few viewings we've had. I suspect we're probably overpriced now - although we wouldn't have been 12 months ago.
    2 viewings so far for me. Misarranged the EPC so house won't be on rightmove till next week. Photos done yesterday
  • Options
    MICKEYMICKEY Posts: 1
    I don't understand why you are always writing that the coalition government was dramatic.
    No, it was a very stable government, who has resolved a lot of problems. Remember our Labour minister : 'I'm sorry, but there is no money anymore.....'. Tories are cutting. Labour is spending. If the Tories continue to shout like Mr Boris Johnson, the loser will be the UK, and not the EU. That will be a fact. Negociations, you are doing on a quiet way, not by shouting on a megaphone !
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583
    MICKEY said:

    I don't understand why you are always writing that the coalition government was dramatic.
    No, it was a very stable government, who has resolved a lot of problems. Remember our Labour minister : 'I'm sorry, but there is no money anymore.....'. Tories are cutting. Labour is spending. If the Tories continue to shout like Mr Boris Johnson, the loser will be the UK, and not the EU. That will be a fact. Negociations, you are doing on a quiet way, not by shouting on a megaphone !

    I'm a fan of the coalition, the drama refers to the initial speculation by many that it wouldn't last until Christmas.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    With this thread you are spoiling us Mr TSE
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,014
    IanB2 said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.
    What is it about Brexit that makes people think wishful thinking can be passed off as analysis?
    Something Europhiles with their blinkered viewing the EU have been indulging in for decades.
  • Options
    Richard_HRichard_H Posts: 48
    edited July 2017
    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:


    True. However the EU is the only show in town in Europe. Deal with it we must, and on their terms. We made life a lot more difficult for ourselves. People haven't cottoned on yet just how difficult. That includes the man supposedly leading the negotiations for us.

    You make it sound like The Borg. Join it, because resistance is futile.
    From last night, if I may, because that's obviously not the case at all. Our European neighbors may have a different and, if you wish, incompatible worldview, but it's not a lesser one. The EU upholds democracy, personal liberty and the rule of law, both domestically and internationally. Those are my values and I hope those of my fellow country people. The EU is both different and better in my opinion than Russia, say, or China. Resistance is futile is a ridiculous way to describe an organisation we would want to deal with, whether inside it our out.

    The problem is that Brexit is built on several very false premises. One of them is that we can disconnect and everything will carry on as before. We want to continue to trade with Europe, the continent we are part of, keep our international nuclear processes going, continue to fly through open skies and so on and so on. The EU covers all this through membership and we are going back to them and saying, we don't want your membership but please replicate everything just for us and by the way we won't accept the jurisdiction of your courts, application of your laws and any other conditions you impose on us as part of the agreement.

    The EU hasn't decided what it wants to do about membership. They are a membership organisation and want to keep it that way. Any associate relationship will have to be much less than full membership. They learnt their lesson on that with Brexit. In the meantime we will be the ones scrabbling to sort something out.

    Agree with this. Neither the EU or UK has a clue about where they want to be with Brexit. The complexity of what needs to be dealt with, has been severely underestimated. It is going to take a lot longer than the 2 year A.50 period, just to deal with the simple stuff. The there will be some transitional period longer than people think, before there is any decision made about the longer term relationship between UK and EU.

    I still don't think Brexit will actually happen, because i think the economics will come into play before March 2019. It can't be Brexit at any cost, as i don't think most people would accept that.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    I have two questions about leaving the EU
    1. Who stands to get the most financial advantage out of leaving, after all most things are greed led
    2. What benefits will the average person in the street get out of leaving
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583

    With this thread you are spoiling us Mr TSE

    Star Wars and that Sîon Simon piece in the same thread header, as Rick Astley put it, you wouldn't get this from any other guy.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    MICKEY said:

    I don't understand why you are always writing that the coalition government was dramatic.
    No, it was a very stable government, who has resolved a lot of problems. Remember our Labour minister : 'I'm sorry, but there is no money anymore.....'. Tories are cutting. Labour is spending. If the Tories continue to shout like Mr Boris Johnson, the loser will be the UK, and not the EU. That will be a fact. Negociations, you are doing on a quiet way, not by shouting on a megaphone !

    Welcome to PB, MICKEY (I assume this is an acronym for something... :p )
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Quite unprecedented, and damaging because it chimes with the general impression.

    One non-partisan problem is that because Brexit has its own Ministry, other Departments feel that it's not their primary problem. They are doing research on how Brexit will affect them, but they are waiting to take their lead from Davis's department, whchisn't yet ready to lead in any direction.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627
    The last 10 years have been a heck of a ride.

    At least we can all agree they've not been boring.
  • Options
    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    MICKEY said:

    I don't understand why you are always writing that the coalition government was dramatic.
    No, it was a very stable government, who has resolved a lot of problems. Remember our Labour minister : 'I'm sorry, but there is no money anymore.....'. Tories are cutting. Labour is spending. If the Tories continue to shout like Mr Boris Johnson, the loser will be the UK, and not the EU. That will be a fact. Negociations, you are doing on a quiet way, not by shouting on a megaphone !

    Welcome to PB Mickey.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627

    FPT

    Iain Martin in The Times screams for Theresa May to go and go soon. I think just about everyone agrees (including probably La May herself) and on that basis, Coral's 5/2 against her departing this year looks like very fair value to me.
    DYOR!

    Unsurprisingly, Ladbrokes offer the same bet.

    Unless a move is made on her for Tory conference, that bet is a loser.

    I can't see who the replacement would be. The trouble is there's no-one obvious to replace her, there isn't time to indulge in a leadership contest and the Brexit clock is ticking.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    RobD said:

    Beginning to enjoy the Brexit situation now. The Tory pigeons are in everyone's sights as they circle the roost. It's popcorn time.

    The least worst option increasingly looks like humiliating climbdown, hopefully preceded by an apology to the people of Britain, ideally from Boris.

    Why would there be a humiliating climb down when all the main parties are committed to Brexit? :p
    Apologising for failing to implement the will of the people? That won't end well.....
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    The last 10 years have been a heck of a ride.

    At least we can all agree they've not been boring.

    The overriding factor for me is the electorate's disenchantment with politicians and the subsequent results at the ballot box. This place increasingly puzzles me, alleged well informed political anoraks so obviously out of touch with public opinion.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    The last 10 years have been a heck of a ride.

    At least we can all agree they've not been boring.

    not boring, but largely unproductive
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001

    FPT

    Iain Martin in The Times screams for Theresa May to go and go soon. I think just about everyone agrees (including probably La May herself) and on that basis, Coral's 5/2 against her departing this year looks like very fair value to me.
    DYOR!

    Unsurprisingly, Ladbrokes offer the same bet.

    Unless a move is made on her for Tory conference, that bet is a loser.

    I can't see who the replacement would be. The trouble is there's no-one obvious to replace her, there isn't time to indulge in a leadership contest and the Brexit clock is ticking.
    2-5 on May staying seems fair tbh.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787

    MICKEY said:

    I don't understand why you are always writing that the coalition government was dramatic.
    No, it was a very stable government, who has resolved a lot of problems. Remember our Labour minister : 'I'm sorry, but there is no money anymore.....'. Tories are cutting. Labour is spending. If the Tories continue to shout like Mr Boris Johnson, the loser will be the UK, and not the EU. That will be a fact. Negociations, you are doing on a quiet way, not by shouting on a megaphone !

    I'm a fan of the coalition, the drama refers to the initial speculation by many that it wouldn't last until Christmas.
    Christmas? Those were the optimists - August GE nailed on was a frequent refrain - eventually drifting out to October, then "is November too late"?

    Much like Mrs May will, the coalition proved more durable - though I doubt she'll last 5 years.

    If only someone ("genius" (sic) to his dwindling band of admirers) hadn't set about doing over the junior partners in the coalition we'd have had Coalition II, no referendum and no BREXIT.....
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    MICKEY said:

    I don't understand why you are always writing that the coalition government was dramatic.
    No, it was a very stable government, who has resolved a lot of problems. Remember our Labour minister : 'I'm sorry, but there is no money anymore.....'. Tories are cutting. Labour is spending. If the Tories continue to shout like Mr Boris Johnson, the loser will be the UK, and not the EU. That will be a fact. Negociations, you are doing on a quiet way, not by shouting on a megaphone !

    I'm a fan of the coalition, the drama refers to the initial speculation by many that it wouldn't last until Christmas.
    Christmas? Those were the optimists - August GE nailed on was a frequent refrain - eventually drifting out to October, then "is November too late"?

    Much like Mrs May will, the coalition proved more durable - though I doubt she'll last 5 years.

    If only someone ("genius" (sic) to his dwindling band of admirers) hadn't set about doing over the junior partners in the coalition we'd have had Coalition II, no referendum and no BREXIT.....
    chortle

    Cameron and Osborne called the referendum and lost it, but in TSE world theyre blameless
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    what nonsense

    the worst government in living memory was Callaghan, followed by Gordon Brown
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368

    The last 10 years have been a heck of a ride.

    At least we can all agree they've not been boring.

    Yes, stability is historically a rare thing, and we've been almot unpredecentally lucky to have decades without war and with only limited recessions and occasional unrest. The belief that this is the new norm is proving to be wrong, sadly.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    It's a statement of the obvious. The government is almost completely comprised of mediocrities and worse. What else would you expect when people of such limited ability are in charge?

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    edited July 2017

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    what nonsense

    the worst government in living memory was Callaghan, followed by Gordon Brown

    Nope - this one is leading us towards an exit from our most important market with no plan and no semblance of a plan. We will have to live with the consequences for decades.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Yes, they are saying that Brexit is relying upon government delivering a massive IT project on time and with no glitches, pretty much for the first time ever, or there will be chaos.

    An outcome like that and the Tories are out of power for many years.
    And unlike many other IT projects, there is no putting back the deadline. This could, probably will, be an absolute disaster.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?

    This government has done absolutely nothing for a year except trigger Article 50 and so start the clock to our exit from the European Union with absolutely no clue about what happens next. It is an unprecedented misjudgement and one that could only have been made by complete incompetents.
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?

    This government has done absolutely nothing for a year except trigger Article 50 and so start the clock to our exit from the European Union with absolutely no clue about what happens next. It is an unprecedented misjudgement and one that could only have been made by complete incompetents.
    And the best govt?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797

    Beginning to enjoy the Brexit situation now. The Tory pigeons are in everyone's sights as they circle the roost. It's popcorn time.

    The least worst option increasingly looks like humiliating climbdown, hopefully preceded by an apology to the people of Britain, ideally from Boris.


    Why the hell would you be enjoying it ?
    It's quite hard to see how that reversal might realistically happen - however much it should - and there is a very real possibility of the immiseration of the entire UK.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    what nonsense

    the worst government in living memory was Callaghan, followed by Gordon Brown

    Nope - this one is leading us towards an exit from our most important market with no plan and o semblance of a plan. We will have to live with the consequences for decades.

    this is just the usual partisan hyperbole thats making PB lose its sharpness

    6 months ago you were saying the opposition was the worst ever and then came the election

    it would help if people on this board could occasionally spend some time in the real world

    the big news is Andy Murray is out in case you missed it
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Good morning, everyone.

    The lesson isn't 'don't hold a snap election'. It's 'don't run the worst campaign in history'.

    If May had been even underwhelming but competent she'd have a 60 seat majority.

    F1: Kubica's completed another test.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40587621
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I think her successor, rather than predecessor, will not be calling a snap election, in paragraph 3.

    In theory her predecessor could be her successor...

    Although I don't think it's likely - a colleague saw him a few days ago and he's very happy and relaxed
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Very revealing comments from Bernard Jenkin-He wrote: “In a failing organisation, which is beset by an atmosphere of crisis, it can be very difficult to talk truthfully about why things have gone wrong…

    “People within the organisation can feel very inhibited and fearful, particularly if there is an atmosphere of blame.

    “Anyone who has worked in CCHQ during the past few months will recognise some or all of these characteristics.”

    There is more.See Politics Home.The rudderless Tory party is simply falling apart at the seams and as Hezza said there's an annual depreciation via death of the oldies of 2% and a corresponding 2% increase in the 18s on the register for the 1st time.The door is open for 16 year olds voting too and this campaign is not going away.

    This is terrible news for the blue team and add the total data cock-up within its electoral machine,it is going the way of the Dodo.Don't forget the failure of the daily right wing lie machine in the press too.

    Any objective observer can only agree with Mr Jenkin.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907
    May lacks Palpatines charm and good humour. Doesn't even have an apprentice.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    what nonsense

    the worst government in living memory was Callaghan, followed by Gordon Brown

    Nope - this one is leading us towards an exit from our most important market with no plan and o semblance of a plan. We will have to live with the consequences for decades.

    this is just the usual partisan hyperbole thats making PB lose its sharpness

    6 months ago you were saying the opposition was the worst ever and then came the election

    it would help if people on this board could occasionally spend some time in the real world

    the big news is Andy Murray is out in case you missed it

    I'd certainly agree that the abysmal opposition has made this government even worse. I spend as much time in the real world as you do. Like most Brits I am no great fan of tennis ;-)

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Housing market flat on its back:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40581912

    I asked this the last time these figures came out, but are people selling their homes online and avoiding estate agents completely?
    An interesting question.
    The government keeps figures on property transactions, so I guess have a look at these in another quarter's time:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/619629/UK_Tables_Jun_2017__cir_.pdf
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    The last 10 years have been a heck of a ride.

    At least we can all agree they've not been boring.

    Yes, stability is historically a rare thing, and we've been almot unpredecentally lucky to have decades without war and with only limited recessions and occasional unrest. The belief that this is the new norm is proving to be wrong, sadly.
    Decades without war on the home front, perhaps.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    what nonsense

    the worst government in living memory was Callaghan, followed by Gordon Brown

    Nope - this one is leading us towards an exit from our most important market with no plan and o semblance of a plan. We will have to live with the consequences for decades.

    this is just the usual partisan hyperbole thats making PB lose its sharpness

    6 months ago you were saying the opposition was the worst ever and then came the election

    it would help if people on this board could occasionally spend some time in the real world

    the big news is Andy Murray is out in case you missed it

    I'd certainly agree that the abysmal opposition has made this government even worse. I spend as much time in the real world as you do. Like most Brits I am no great fan of tennis ;-)

    brits are only tennis fans for a fortnight each year :-)
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?

    This government has done absolutely nothing for a year except trigger Article 50 and so start the clock to our exit from the European Union with absolutely no clue about what happens next. It is an unprecedented misjudgement and one that could only have been made by complete incompetents.
    And the best govt?

    For me personally, I'd say that the Wilson 64-70, Thatcher, Major and Blair governments were the best. For the country as a whole, I'd go for the Liberal 1906 one and the Labour 1945 one.

  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?

    This government has done absolutely nothing for a year except trigger Article 50 and so start the clock to our exit from the European Union with absolutely no clue about what happens next. It is an unprecedented misjudgement and one that could only have been made by complete incompetents.
    And the best govt?

    For me personally, I'd say that the Wilson 64-70, Thatcher, Major and Blair governments were the best. For the country as a whole, I'd go for the Liberal 1906 one and the Labour 1945 one.

    Hang on, you said living memory - how old are you?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. L, wasn't there a huge length of peace after the Napoleonic War(s)?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970
    Charles said:

    I think her successor, rather than predecessor, will not be calling a snap election, in paragraph 3.

    In theory her predecessor could be her successor...

    Although I don't think it's likely - a colleague saw him a few days ago and he's very happy and relaxed

    Of course he is. He is a very wealthy member of the elite. What could he possibly have to grumble about? See also George Osborne.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?
    Drifted.
    At a time when that is an indulgence the nation can't afford.

    Whether or not it is the worst in living memory will be determined in the next couple of years.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    what nonsense

    the worst government in living memory was Callaghan, followed by Gordon Brown

    Nope - this one is leading us towards an exit from our most important market with no plan and o semblance of a plan. We will have to live with the consequences for decades.

    this is just the usual partisan hyperbole thats making PB lose its sharpness

    6 months ago you were saying the opposition was the worst ever and then came the election

    it would help if people on this board could occasionally spend some time in the real world

    the big news is Andy Murray is out in case you missed it
    Hyperbole is the new form of writing. Everything is maxed out in terms of its supposed effect. Rational discussion is the loser. The media needs stories.. To see this in reality, you just need to look back a few weeks into what was the headlines that have now disappeared into the ether.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?

    This made by complete incompetents.
    And the best govt?

    For me personally, I'd say that the Wilson 64-70, Thatcher, Major and Blair governments were the best. For the country as a whole, I'd go for the Liberal 1906 one and the Labour 1945 one.

    Hang on, you said living memory - how old are you?

    Living memory I took to mean people alive, not just me. I was born in 1964, but have undoubtedly benefited from what the 1906 and 1945 governments set in motion and then consolidated.

  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?
    Drifted.
    At a time when that is an indulgence the nation can't afford.

    Whether or not it is the worst in living memory will be determined in the next couple of years.
    I didn't vote for May but to me the definition of good govt is one that does very little, stays out of people's lives.

    I suspect that when you say drift you really mean it hasn't spent borrowed money
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?

    This made by complete incompetents.
    And the best govt?

    For me personally, I'd say that the Wilson 64-70, Thatcher, Major and Blair governments were the best. For the country as a whole, I'd go for the Liberal 1906 one and the Labour 1945 one.

    Hang on, you said living memory - how old are you?

    Living memory I took to mean people alive, not just me. I was born in 1964, but have undoubtedly benefited from what the 1906 and 1945 governments set in motion and then consolidated.

    Nothing comes close to matching the impact of the 1945 government. The social reforms of Wilson are probably second.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. Root, sounds like the linguistic equivalent of societal breakdown in the Peloponnesian War.
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well the EU has survived decades of ever more undemocratic and very costly incompetence, and its still there and for some reason many Remain supporters are just as happy to ignore that. When are we all going to realise that if its car crash Brexit for the UK, then it is also going to be a very costly car crash Brexit for the EU?! It maybe the responsibility of our Government to do everything it can to make Brexit as smooth as possible for UKplc, but the EU are now facing a far tougher task that seems to be ignored daily. The EU not only have to now deal with the loss of the UK as a net contributor on various levels, but they also have navigate a minefield where they are able to send a very strong message to stop other EU members thinking about following the UK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?

    This made by complete incompetents.
    And the best govt?

    For me personally, I'd say that the Wilson 64-70, Thatcher, Major and Blair governments were the best. For the country as a whole, I'd go for the Liberal 1906 one and the Labour 1945 one.

    Hang on, you said living memory - how old are you?

    Living memory I took to mean people alive, not just me. I was born in 1964, but have undoubtedly benefited from what the 1906 and 1945 governments set in motion and then consolidated.

    In that case indisputably the best govt was 39-45 because without them we wouldn't be here now
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797

    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?
    Drifted.
    At a time when that is an indulgence the nation can't afford.

    Whether or not it is the worst in living memory will be determined in the next couple of years.
    I didn't vote for May but to me the definition of good govt is one that does very little, stays out of people's lives.

    I suspect that when you say drift you really mean it hasn't spent borrowed money
    In the context of Brexit, that is simply preposterous.
    As are your 'suspicions'.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited July 2017

    MICKEY said:

    I don't understand why you are always writing that the coalition government was dramatic.
    No, it was a very stable government, who has resolved a lot of problems. Remember our Labour minister : 'I'm sorry, but there is no money anymore.....'. Tories are cutting. Labour is spending. If the Tories continue to shout like Mr Boris Johnson, the loser will be the UK, and not the EU. That will be a fact. Negociations, you are doing on a quiet way, not by shouting on a megaphone !

    I'm a fan of the coalition, the drama refers to the initial speculation by many that it wouldn't last until Christmas.
    Christmas? Those were the optimists - August GE nailed on was a frequent refrain - eventually drifting out to October, then "is November too late"?

    Much like Mrs May will, the coalition proved more durable - though I doubt she'll last 5 years.

    If only someone ("genius" (sic) to his dwindling band of admirers) hadn't set about doing over the junior partners in the coalition we'd have had Coalition II, no referendum and no BREXIT.....
    chortle

    Cameron and Osborne called the referendum and lost it, but in TSE world theyre blameless
    Cameron Osborne were to blame for calling the referendum but then they didn't believe they'd win a majority at GE15. This is unlike the hapless TMay who believed GE17 was a certainty so it was OK to break her promise to wait until 2020.

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,970

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    Well theUK by leaving.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?

    This made by complete incompetents.
    And the best govt?

    For me personally, I'd say that the Wilson 64-70, Thatcher, Major and Blair governments were the best. For the country as a whole, I'd go for the Liberal 1906 one and the Labour 1945 one.

    Hang on, you said living memory - how old are you?

    Living memory I took to mean people alive, not just me. I was born in 1964, but have undoubtedly benefited from what the 1906 and 1945 governments set in motion and then consolidated.

    In that case indisputably the best govt was 39-45 because without them we wouldn't be here now

    Yep - a fair point.

  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?
    Drifted.
    At a time when that is an indulgence the nation can't afford.

    Whether or not it is the worst in living memory will be determined in the next couple of years.
    I didn't vote for May but to me the definition of good govt is one that does very little, stays out of people's lives.

    I suspect that when you say drift you really mean it hasn't spent borrowed money
    In the context of Brexit, that is simply preposterous.
    As are your 'suspicions'.
    What "should" they be doing re Brexit?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. Smithson, point of order: Osborne advised against the referendum, did he not?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583

    Mr. Smithson, point of order: Osborne advised against the referendum, did he not?

    He did.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,897
    edited July 2017

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    what nonsense

    the worst government in living memory was Callaghan, followed by Gordon Brown

    Nope - this one is leading us towards an exit from our most important market with no plan and o semblance of a plan. We will have to live with the consequences for decades.

    this is just the usual partisan hyperbole thats making PB lose its sharpness

    6 months ago you were saying the opposition was the worst ever and then came the election

    it would help if people on this board could occasionally spend some time in the real world

    the big news is Andy Murray is out in case you missed it
    Hyperbole is the new form of writing. Everything is maxed out in terms of its supposed effect. Rational discussion is the loser. The media needs stories.. To see this in reality, you just need to look back a few weeks into what was the headlines that have now disappeared into the ether.
    I was just thinking what an entertaining header. Loosen up!
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    edited July 2017

    Very revealing comments from Bernard Jenkin-He wrote: “In a failing organisation, which is beset by an atmosphere of crisis, it can be very difficult to talk truthfully about why things have gone wrong…

    “People within the organisation can feel very inhibited and fearful, particularly if there is an atmosphere of blame.

    “Anyone who has worked in CCHQ during the past few months will recognise some or all of these characteristics.”

    There is more.See Politics Home.The rudderless Tory party is simply falling apart at the seams and as Hezza said there's an annual depreciation via death of the oldies of 2% and a corresponding 2% increase in the 18s on the register for the 1st time.The door is open for 16 year olds voting too and this campaign is not going away.

    This is terrible news for the blue team and add the total data cock-up within its electoral machine,it is going the way of the Dodo.Don't forget the failure of the daily right wing lie machine in the press too.

    Any objective observer can only agree with Mr Jenkin.

    Britain is a country which is addicted to living well beyond its means in a globalised world economy where we are now competing against peoples who are as intelligent and educated as ourselves but who are willing to work harder for less money and under fewer restrictions.

    When the consequences of that are properly felt then there will be profound effects politically.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907
    Wondering when we will next get a top class prime minister. Three second raters on the trot is unprecedented since ww2.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. Jonathan, I'd rather have Cameron than Blair (your post implies Blair was top class).
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907

    Mr. Jonathan, I'd rather have Cameron than Blair (your post implies Blair was top class).

    Undoubtedly.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368



    I didn't vote for May but to me the definition of good govt is one that does very little, stays out of people's lives.

    I suspect that when you say drift you really mean it hasn't spent borrowed money

    If we had a sense that the Government was purposefully avoiding interfering in people's lives, trying to reduce unnecessary legislation, and so on, that would be meaningful in the sense you describe - we might disagree whether it would be good, but it wouldn't be drifting.

    But do you feel there is any such agenda, rather than just hopelessly stumbling on from day to day hoping something will turn up?
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132

    MICKEY said:

    I don't understand why you are always writing that the coalition government was dramatic.
    No, it was a very stable government, who has resolved a lot of problems. Remember our Labour minister : 'I'm sorry, but there is no money anymore.....'. Tories are cutting. Labour is spending. If the Tories continue to shout like Mr Boris Johnson, the loser will be the UK, and not the EU. That will be a fact. Negociations, you are doing on a quiet way, not by shouting on a megaphone !

    I'm a fan of the coalition, the drama refers to the initial speculation by many that it wouldn't last until Christmas.
    Christmas? Those were the optimists - August GE nailed on was a frequent refrain - eventually drifting out to October, then "is November too late"?

    Much like Mrs May will, the coalition proved more durable - though I doubt she'll last 5 years.

    If only someone ("genius" (sic) to his dwindling band of admirers) hadn't set about doing over the junior partners in the coalition we'd have had Coalition II, no referendum and no BREXIT.....
    chortle

    Cameron and Osborne called the referendum and lost it, but in TSE world theyre blameless
    Cameron Osborne were to blame for calling the referendum but then they didn't believe they'd win a majority at GE15. This is unlike the hapless TMay who believed GE17 was a certainty so it was OK to break her promise to wait until 2020.

    I think one thing which prompted May to call the election was the problems with the Budget.

    The no increases in taxation promises of 2015 stopping the proposed NI changes of 2017.

    The need to reduce the long term damage triple lock pensions are doing was an extra reason - that was yet another promise from Cameron and Osborne.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,897
    Jonathan said:

    Wondering when we will next get a top class prime minister. Three second raters on the trot is unprecedented since ww2.

    It's certain to be four. I can only think of one possible candidate from each of the two main parties who doesn't fit your description and Anna Soubrey has no chance
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,416
    Jonathan said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NAO seem to share the feeling that the government is sorely unprepared for the contingencies of Brexit:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/12/theresa-mays-government-could-come-apart-like-chocolate-orange/
    This is a rather extraordinary intervention.

    Car crash Brexit, here we come...

    Can any government survive with this level of incompetence?

    The one thing worse for an incoming unelected PM than a snap election, is a snap election forced by Parliament.
    snip

    If the UK navigates a successful Brexit that allows us to thrive outside EU, the biggest loser is the EU.

    A pre-requisite of a successful UK outside the EU is a successful EU. Some lunatics on the right may wish it to be otherwise, but even this government - by far the worst in living memory - understands the opposite is true.

    Two questions:

    What has this govt done (in its few weeks) that is so awful?

    If this is the worst govt in living memory which is the best?

    This made by complete incompetents.
    And the best govt?

    For me personally, I'd say that the Wilson 64-70, Thatcher, Major and Blair governments were the best. For the country as a whole, I'd go for the Liberal 1906 one and the Labour 1945 one.

    Hang on, you said living memory - how old are you?

    Living memory I took to mean people alive, not just me. I was born in 1964, but have undoubtedly benefited from what the 1906 and 1945 governments set in motion and then consolidated.

    Nothing comes close to matching the impact of the 1945 government. The social reforms of Wilson are probably second.
    Morning all,

    To have even been born during the 1906-1910 Liberal government you would now need to be at least 107, never mind needing to be probably at least eight or nine years old during it to have had any memory of it.

    Not sure who is currently the oldest living Brit - may just be possible that 1906 government is in living memory. Be interesting to find out.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429

    Mr. L, wasn't there a huge length of peace after the Napoleonic War(s)?

    And a bad depression
  • Options
    freetochoosefreetochoose Posts: 1,107



    I didn't vote for May but to me the definition of good govt is one that does very little, stays out of people's lives.

    I suspect that when you say drift you really mean it hasn't spent borrowed money

    If we had a sense that the Government was purposefully avoiding interfering in people's lives, trying to reduce unnecessary legislation, and so on, that would be meaningful in the sense you describe - we might disagree whether it would be good, but it wouldn't be drifting.

    But do you feel there is any such agenda, rather than just hopelessly stumbling on from day to day hoping something will turn up?
    Fair point, the end result is the same and proves my point that most things govt does is unnecessary. The purpose of govt is to protect its citizens, every other function in life will be carried out by the citizens.

    I'm not in any way defending this govt simply pointing out that "drifting" whether accidentally or not, is a good thing, it means they're not interfering.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    edited July 2017
    Mr. Jonathan, Blair had a golden inheritance and a great opportunity, and squandered it. The politically correct bullshit began under his watch, the politicisation of police under (another) Blair was not edifying, deficits were run in a boom, migration floodgates opened which has and continues to damage social cohesion, half the rebate thrown away and, of course, the military adventurism was not great.

    Mostly, he was a charming salesman who was incompetent and cared about headlines not governing.

    That said, steps forward happened on civil partnership, and he did continue the good work of Major on Northern Ireland peace.

    Edited extra bit: there was prolonged peace and prosperity under Antoninus Pius, but now hardly anybody even remembers his name. Whereas that murderous lunatic Commodus is far better-known.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    Blair was OK in his first term. Maybe there should be a five year limit?
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Jonathan, I'd rather have Cameron than Blair (your post implies Blair was top class).

    Undoubtedly.
    Agreed 1997 to 2007 the best 10 years domestically of government in my my living memory.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    The last 10 years have been a heck of a ride.

    At least we can all agree they've not been boring.

    The overriding factor for me is the electorate's disenchantment with politicians and the subsequent results at the ballot box. This place increasingly puzzles me, alleged well informed political anoraks so obviously out of touch with public opinion.
    I agree - we have ever more news/social media commentary and they seem furhter from much of the public mood than ever before. One particular aspect is the media 'bubble' apsect which ensures that their distorted views are magnified as they seem largely to talk to each other whilst ignoring from on high Jo Public. This is evident everywhere - not least on here.
This discussion has been closed.