Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
A large blaze has broken out at a brand new block of flats in East London with witnesses claiming the building's solar panels appear to have caught fire.
The idea liking the Dutch, or the Netherlands, necessitates liking a political institution is as wrong as saying patriotic Britons have to like the British Government.
The point is that the EU is much more than a political government, it is a set of institutions with political, social, economic and environmental functions.
The analogy is not "not liking a particular government" it is "not liking constitutional democracy". The latter may well be compatible with patriotism, but it does require major contortions.
The only contortions are yours in pretending that the EU = Europe. Then again you are a fully paid up federalist and they believe the same bullshit. Europe existed before the EU and it will continue to exist well beyond the EU.
You need to re-read my posts. I did not say that the EU =Europe, just that the overlap is substantial and not just political.
I expect in geographic time the EU will cease to exist before Europe as a continent ceases to exist, but for at least the next century the EU will be the political, social and economic face of Europe.
the overlap between NATO and Europe is substantial
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
Living within ones means does not mean becoming German.
Anyone borrowing money has to agree the means of repayment, it is why I said earlier that freedom from debt is the greatest freedom of all.
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, but it does require major contortions, rather like saying that you like Catholicism apart from the religious aspects.
The EU is the political and social expression of Europe, and all countries of Europe are either members, applying to be members or are heavily associated via EEA or similar. Brexit puts us into the same position as Belarus or Russia in relation. We have chosen to disassociate, and that is not the action of a country that likes Europe. Argue that is the right choice, or that we belong to the Atlantic rather than the Continent, but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
Europe is not the EU.
Europe is the soil I stand on. The EU is the flag I spit on.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
Oh, FFS
That is one of the dumbest things Dan has ever said, in a crowded field.
Dan's solution to the problems of English football would be to withdraw from FIFA and invite the USA and Australia to join us in an alternative World Cup.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
Oh, FFS
That is one of the dumbest things Dan has ever said, in a crowded field.
Dan's solution to the problems of English football would be to withdraw from FIFA and invite the USA and Australia to join us in an alternative World Cup.
You've managed a post on your own without having to paste someone else's thoughts.
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, but it does require major contortions, rather like saying that you like Catholicism apart from the religious aspects.
The EU is the political and social expression of Europe, and all countries of Europe are either members, applying to be members or are heavily associated via EEA or similar. Brexit puts us into the same position as Belarus or Russia in relation. We have chosen to disassociate, and that is not the action of a country that likes Europe. Argue that is the right choice, or that we belong to the Atlantic rather than the Continent, but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
Europe is not the EU.
Europe is the soil I stand on. The EU is the flag I spit on.
That's not ever so slightly deranged in any way at all!!
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
Oh, FFS
That is one of the dumbest things Dan has ever said, in a crowded field.
Dan's solution to the problems of English football would be to withdraw from FIFA and invite the USA and Australia to join us in an alternative World Cup.
Yes, when we leave the EU we will still be able to compete, leaving FIFA would leave us isolated. You're right, the analogy is not a good one
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, but it does require major contortions, rather like saying that you like Catholicism apart from the religious aspects.
The EU is the political and social expression of Europe, and all countries of Europe are either members, applying to be members or are heavily associated via EEA or similar. Brexit puts us into the same position as Belarus or Russia in relation. We have chosen to disassociate, and that is not the action of a country that likes Europe. Argue that is the right choice, or that we belong to the Atlantic rather than the Continent, but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
And you do not seem to understand the nature of the EU.
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
Living within ones means does not mean becoming German.
Anyone borrowing money has to agree the means of repayment, it is why I said earlier that freedom from debt is the greatest freedom of all.
the Greeks cheated
the Germans knew they were cheating but still let them in to the Euro
German has a moral responsibility for it's own part in the fiasco which it is walking away from
it's like a landlord who serves someone he knows is an underage drinker and then gets his bouncers to kick the crap out of him when he cant pay
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
getting out of the Euro would - even Wolfgang Schaueble thinks that
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
getting out of the Euro would - even Wolfgang Schaueble thinks that
While there is some Greek regret at joining the Euro, even at the height of the crisis the majority of Greeks wanted to stay in:
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU! rstand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
getting out of the Euro would - even Wolfgang Schaueble thinks that
While there is some Greek regret at joining the Euro, even at the height of the crisis the majority of Greeks wanted to stay in:
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU! rstand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
getting out of the Euro would - even Wolfgang Schaueble thinks that
While there is some Greek regret at joining the Euro, even at the height of the crisis the majority of Greeks wanted to stay in:
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
getting out of the Euro would - even Wolfgang Schaueble thinks that
Pity they didn't vote to do so then, "will of the people"and all that
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU! rstand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced t skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
getting out of the Euro would - even Wolfgang Schaueble thinks that
While there is some Greek regret at joining the Euro, even at the height of the crisis the majority of Greeks wanted to stay in:
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU! rstand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced t skiing?
fiscally and politically
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
getting out of the Euro would - even Wolfgang Schaueble thinks that
While there is some Greek regret at joining the Euro, even at the height of the crisis the majority of Greeks wanted to stay in:
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU! rstand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced t skiing?
fiscally and politically
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
getting out of the Euro would - even Wolfgang Schaueble thinks that
While there is some Greek regret at joining the Euro, even at the height of the crisis the majority of Greeks wanted to stay in:
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out
Then you must love the EU! rstand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced t skiing?
fiscally and politically
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
getting out of the Euro would - even Wolfgang Schaueble thinks that
While there is some Greek regret at joining the Euro, even at the height of the crisis the majority of Greeks wanted to stay in:
They had the choice. They are demonstrating sovereignty.
Yes, your vision of a social Europe works so well, banks who knew they were lending to a dodgy client should be bailed out and the ordinary people should bear the brunt.
You don't have to love the EU. Many of us think it's a flawed institution. But people underestimate the degree to which the EU reflects the continent we are part of. It trades off the multiple interests and agendas of its members and is the way it is because that's how those trade-offs fall out. It isn't a superstate because no-one wants it to be, but it is more than an alliance. It balances the interests of small and large countries; North and south; East and West; Atlanticists and neutral countries. It represents multilateralism, international rules and personal liberty.
I don't love Westminster either but am happy to be part of the UK. As a Scot, I would say the EU is similar.
We expect the young to be socially left-wing, and often economically left-wing (especially when so many go to university now). They will change.
In the late 1960s, I went to a demo in Grosvenor Square with many thousands of young committed left-wing activists. How many of those are now Jezzarites? Far fewer than you'd think. Probably more accountants than anarchists now.
I think that cliche is less true than ever. Youngsters are not moving into the homes and jobs for life that were part of that party shift with age, and social liberalism makes them far more open to other cultures than older folk. There is also the refusal to age phenomenon, where 30 and 40 something's hold onto the enthusiasms of their youth, including the politics.
There are other strands too that go in the opposite direction. In particular youngsters are much more materialistic in ambitions, though one should bear in mind that materialism does not mean Toryism. Socialism is a very materialistic philosophy that believes that the problem is the way materialist goods are distributed is the issue, rather than whether they matter.
Ms Apocalypse does have many Tory sympathetic ideas, I suspect she will soon be welcome at the PB Tory baby roast.
I'm interested into what these many Tory sympathetic ideas are that I apparently have. In the last few days, I've basically been arguing that Labour need to be more socially liberal on the matter of Brexit, the defining issue of this generation for a start. It's your good self that has been very sympathetic to a Hard Brexiteer, whose view of Brexit is basically the same as the Right of the Conservative Party.
I suspect you will be soon welcome at the Corbynista get-together.
What is "socially liberal" about being joined at the hip with the likes of Poland and Hungary?
Mr. MJW, grandfathering would be the sensible approach, as you say. Unfortunately, as you also said, Trump is not necessarily sensible.
On Cable: he hasn't 'come out' for anything. He just wants to be as close to the EU as possible, with his ultimate preference being to remain. You don't need to ask him his view, just consider what makes us closer to the EU and you'll know he'll approve.
The answer for true believers is always 'more Europe*'.
*The zealots confuse the EU for Europe. It'd be intriguing to know whether this is deliberate abuse of language, or an unwitting psychological tick.
To paraphrase Dan Hannan, it's possible to like Europe and hate the EU, in much the same way that it's possible to like football and hate FIFA.
It is possible to like Europe but not the EU, b but you shouldn't deny that is what we are doing.
How
the EU is seeking to make a homogenous one size fits all Europe wiping out cebturies of national diversity and expression
I love the Europe were a Greek isnt forced to be a German
Then you must love the EU!
The Greeks are not being forced to be German any more than the Northern Irish are forced to be English, or Texans to be New Yorkers. You do not seem to understand the nature of federalism.
I do understand the nature of federalism and what we have is heading to a monolithic union not a confederation
The EU is democratic in the sense that Hong Kong is
So in what way are Greeks being forced to be German?
Are the EU replacing feta cheese with Ascherberg? Greek language with German? Greek Orthodoxy with Lutheranism? Ouzo with Schnapps? sailing with skiing?
fiscally and politically the Greeks are being forced to adopt a northern European model on how to run their country#
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
The Greeks are in a financial mess largely of their own making. Getting out of the EU wouldn't solve their problems.
Getting out of the Euro would solve their problems though.
Comments
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bses9QRRyIk
German imposed austerity is wrecking the social fabric of the country, emigration is now the only way out for lots of young greeks
No laughing at the back...
NATOs not bossing anyone around
Anyone borrowing money has to agree the means of repayment, it is why I said earlier that freedom from debt is the greatest freedom of all.
Europe is the soil I stand on. The EU is the flag I spit on.
That is one of the dumbest things Dan has ever said, in a crowded field.
Dan's solution to the problems of English football would be to withdraw from FIFA and invite the USA and Australia to join us in an alternative World Cup.
Well done.
Grenfell row as Labour MP suggests 'white, upper-middle class man' should not have been hired to lead inquiry
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/02/labour-mp-suggests-white-upper-middle-class-grenfell-judge-has/
the Germans knew they were cheating but still let them in to the Euro
German has a moral responsibility for it's own part in the fiasco which it is walking away from
it's like a landlord who serves someone he knows is an underage drinker and then gets his bouncers to kick the crap out of him when he cant pay
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/06/16/poll-7-in-10-greeks-want-the-euro-at-any-cost/
The Greeks have chosen the Euro. In what other way is Greece being "forced" to become German?
Studying Wagner rather than Homer? Lederhosen compulsory? Goose stepping rather than Bazouki?
They had the choice. They are demonstrating sovereignty.
Yes, your vision of a social Europe works so well, banks who knew they were lending to a dodgy client should be bailed out and the ordinary people should bear the brunt.
I don't love Westminster either but am happy to be part of the UK. As a Scot, I would say the EU is similar.
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