Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
I'm seeing Hooky in Florence next week....he's doing the entire Substance (New Order and Joy Division) albums...a 3 hour feast.
I love New Order....but Radiohead are mesmerising and brilliant and inventive and innovative and quite simply one of the best bands the world has ever seen...the Beachboys, the Beatles and Radiohead....and then you have the rest.....
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish.
Radiohead are classic music for the modern ages, in the same way Pink Floyd were and perhaps Elbow are too.
I do like the Smiths though, never been a great Bestles fan, (ironic that their best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney). Beach Boys are genius, same as Van Morrison and Dylan, best live act ever is Springsteen.
All in my humble opinion of course.
Beatles best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney... Eh???
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
Depeche Mode, Queen and New Order for me
Queen, ugh!
Anyone on here a Steely Dan fan?
Queen ugh???
This is the second best music video filmed on a moving train!:
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
I'm seeing Hooky in Florence next week....he's doing the entire Substance (New Order and Joy Division) albums...a 3 hour feast.
I love New Order....but Radiohead are mesmerising and brilliant and inventive and innovative and quite simply one of the best bands the world has ever seen...the Beachboys, the Beatles and Radiohead....and then you have the rest.....
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish.
Radiohead are classic music for the modern ages, in the same way Pink Floyd were and perhaps Elbow are too.
I do like the Smiths though, never been a great Bestles fan, (ironic that their best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney). Beach Boys are genius, same as Van Morrison and Dylan, best live act ever is Springsteen.
All in my humble opinion of course.
Beatles best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney... Eh???
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
I'm seeing Hooky in Florence next week....he's doing the entire Substance (New Order and Joy Division) albums...a 3 hour feast.
I love New Order....but Radiohead are mesmerising and brilliant and inventive and innovative and quite simply one of the best bands the world has ever seen...the Beachboys, the Beatles and Radiohead....and then you have the rest.....
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish.
Radiohead are classic music for the modern ages, in the same way Pink Floyd were and perhaps Elbow are too.
I do like the Smiths though, never been a great Bestles fan, (ironic that their best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney). Beach Boys are genius, same as Van Morrison and Dylan, best live act ever is Springsteen.
All in my humble opinion of course.
Beatles best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney... Eh???
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
Depeche Mode, Queen and New Order for me
Why was it ever OK for a one hit wonder (and that hit highly overrated) band to call itself Joy Division? I don't think there is enough hip, self-conscious irony in the world to make it acceptable.
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
Depeche Mode, Queen and New Order for me
Queen, ugh!
Anyone on here a Steely Dan fan?
Yes.
But I struggle to see how you can like SD and not like Queen.
To my ears SD are far superior, apart from a handful of tracks Queen music is awful to me.
I used to like 10cc in the 70's but it sounds terribly dated now
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
I'm seeing Hooky in Florence next week....he's doing the entire Substance (New Order and Joy Division) albums...a 3 hour feast.
I love New Order....but Radiohead are mesmerising and brilliant and inventive and innovative and quite simply one of the best bands the world has ever seen...the Beachboys, the Beatles and Radiohead....and then you have the rest.....
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish.
Radiohead are classic music for the modern ages, in the same way Pink Floyd were and perhaps Elbow are too.
I do like the Smiths though, never been a great Bestles fan, (ironic that their best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney). Beach Boys are genius, same as Van Morrison and Dylan, best live act ever is Springsteen.
All in my humble opinion of course.
Beatles best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney... Eh???
Here Comes The Sun, written by George Harrison
All subjective of course
Ah fair enough. Would make the top 20 Beatles songs imo - plenty of L&Mc gems to beat it. But if we all liked the same things it'd be a very boring world!
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
There are more moderates in parliament than Brexiteers, albeit trapped in red white and blue, cod churchillian handcuffs by the referendum verdict. How they must be dying to just ignore it
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
I'm seeing Hooky in Florence next week....he's doing the entire Substance (New Order and Joy Division) albums...a 3 hour feast.
I love New Order....but Radiohead are mesmerising and brilliant and inventive and innovative and quite simply one of the best bands the world has ever seen...the Beachboys, the Beatles and Radiohead....and then you have the rest.....
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish.
Radiohead are classic music for the modern ages, in the same way Pink Floyd were and perhaps Elbow are too.
I do like the Smiths though, never been a great Bestles fan, (ironic that their best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney). Beach Boys are genius, same as Van Morrison and Dylan, best live act ever is Springsteen.
All in my humble opinion of course.
Beatles best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney... Eh???
Here Comes The Sun, written by George Harrison
All subjective of course
Ah fair enough. Would make the top 20 Beatles songs imo - plenty of L&Mc gems to beat it. But if we all liked the same things it'd be a very boring world!
Very true, Something was also written by GH.
Hey Jude must be one of the simplest songs ever written but is brilliant, largely a McCartney composition I believe
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
Labour's views on Brexit don't matter. If you hate the Tories for destroying your dream of European Union, you'll vote for whichever party is best placed to beat them.
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
I don't think much makes sense anymore in terms of people's reactions - I know a young lady, 18-24, self described as despising Labour, voted Tory this time as last time, but now says they would vote for Corbyn next time. I presume because May has disappointed, but that's a hell of a shift!
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
Labour's views on Brexit don't matter. If you hate the Tories for destroying your dream of European Union, you'll vote for whichever party is best placed to beat them.
Yeah, punishing the Tories for Brexit is a powerful motivation. the enemy of my enemy is nearly my friend.
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit
Labour has increased its membership substantially since the election. In my mind Jeremys position on brexit is clear, even if it isn't to you. My conversations with members mainly revolve around matters like pay freezes, poverty and culpability for recent disasters. Perhaps you should talk to some Labour people for a change.
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish. .
In my view as a fairly hardcore Queen fan, Bo Rhap and Rhye (either version) aren't even in my top 10 Queen songs. Probably not in my top 20.
Peak Corbyn. Nice of Chukka to expose the contradictions within the Labour party so soon.
Will the Glastonbury crowd care though? I get the impression they actually like practicing double think. You can't have that much cognitive dissonance without enjoying it.
Peak Corbyn. Nice of Chukka to expose the contradictions within the Labour party so soon.
Will the Glastonbury crowd care though? I get the impression they actually like practicing double think. You can't have that much cognitive dissonance without enjoying it.
They have the advantage of opposition. The Tories have to square the "have cake and eat it" policy with the disadvantage of actually having to implement it.
'Perhaps you should talk to some Labour people for a change'. Err I do - my Twitter timeline is literally filled with Corbynistas that I know. Try again.
'Labour has increased its membership substantially since the election.' I'm aware that Labour's membership has increased, but that was (a. before today (b. by not as nearly as much as Corbynistas were telling us was the case.
'In my mind Jeremys position on brexit is clear, even if it isn't to you.' Don't know what post you were reading, as my post did not imply I wasn't clear on his position regarding Brexit. On the contray, I was criticizing his position on Brexit.
'My conversations with members mainly revolve around matters like pay freezes, poverty and culpability for recent disasters.' And what those members don't seem to understand is that in order to solve those problems, we need money, and thus we need the economy to do well. If a Hard Brexit is an economic disaster you and the members you know can kiss goodbye to solving those issues as the money simply won't be there to do so.
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
Labour's views on Brexit don't matter. If you hate the Tories for destroying your dream of European Union, you'll vote for whichever party is best placed to beat them.
Yeah, punishing the Tories for Brexit is a powerful motivation. the enemy of my enemy is nearly my friend.
Also, it's clear that for the angry remainer there is still more chance of a soft brexit with a Lab minority govt (or even a slim majority one) than a Tory majority one, because Lab as a party is clearly more openly divided.
Now, what would be really interesting is if Lab really do commit to hard brexit, then the tories chuck May and put in a soft brexiting Hammond. What would that do to voter coalitions?
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish. .
In my view as a fairly hardcore Queen fan, Bo Rhap and Rhye (either version) aren't even in my top 10 Queen songs. Probably not in my top 20.
All subjective as I said and I love different opinions on music, out of interest can you name a few different Queen songs I should listen to, will give it another go
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
I don't think much makes sense anymore in terms of people's reactions - I know a young lady, 18-24, self described as despising Labour, voted Tory this time as last time, but now says they would vote for Corbyn next time. I presume because May has disappointed, but that's a hell of a shift!
Yes, many many of the public appear to make bizarre choices when it comes to voting. There are ex LDs that have voted UKIP in recent years!
@Sean_F I think it's more than that. I think many in Labour are convinced that Labour is inherently 'good' and thus everything the party does is inherently good no matter what. It's all about the Labour brand. Whereas in reality, you are only inherently 'good' if your actions back that up.
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish. .
In my view as a fairly hardcore Queen fan, Bo Rhap and Rhye (either version) aren't even in my top 10 Queen songs. Probably not in my top 20.
All subjective as I said and I love different opinions on music, out of interest can you name a few different Queen songs I should listen to, will give it another go
Peak Corbyn. Nice of Chukka to expose the contradictions within the Labour party so soon.
Will the Glastonbury crowd care though? I get the impression they actually like practicing double think. You can't have that much cognitive dissonance without enjoying it.
Let's face it, double think with a tasty side of cognitive dissonance is the plat du jour on all sides of the aisle. It's hardly just Lsbour. If only the sensible ones on both sides would get together and kick out the loons. For the sake of the country.
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
I'm seeing Hooky in Florence next week....he's doing the entire Substance (New Order and Joy Division) albums...a 3 hour feast.
I love New Order....but Radiohead are mesmerising and brilliant and inventive and innovative and quite simply one of the best bands the world has ever seen...the Beachboys, the Beatles and Radiohead....and then you have the rest.....
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish.
Radiohead are classic music for the modern ages, in the same way Pink Floyd were and perhaps Elbow are too.
I do like the Smiths though, never been a great Bestles fan, (ironic that their best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney). Beach Boys are genius, same as Van Morrison and Dylan, best live act ever is Springsteen.
All in my humble opinion of course.
Beatles best song was not written by Lennon & McCartney... Eh???
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
Equally, so called "moderates" can't point to Corbynistas and say that they're the ones who are out of touch with the public and aren't interested in winning elections, when they're advocating a Brexit position that would be political suicide.
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
I'm seeing Hooky in Florence next week....he's doing the entire Substance (New Order and Joy Division) albums...a 3 hour feast.
I love New Order....but Radiohead are mesmerising and brilliant and inventive and innovative and quite simply one of the best bands the world has ever seen...the Beachboys, the Beatles and Radiohead....and then you have the rest.....
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish.
Radiohead are classic music for the modern ages....
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
Equally, so called "moderates" can't point to Corbynistas and say that they're the ones who are out of touch with the public and aren't interested in winning elections, when they're advocating a Brexit position that would be political suicide.
Single Market membership is not political suicide. 48%+ is not political suicide.
Queen are truly dreadful, with the obvious exception of Bohemian Rhapsody and a nod to Seven Seas of Rye the rest is utter dross. Radio Gaga, Fat Bottomed Girls, total rubbish. .
In my view as a fairly hardcore Queen fan, Bo Rhap and Rhye (either version) aren't even in my top 10 Queen songs. Probably not in my top 20.
All subjective as I said and I love different opinions on music, out of interest can you name a few different Queen songs I should listen to, will give it another go
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
Equally, so called "moderates" can't point to Corbynistas and say that they're the ones who are out of touch with the public and aren't interested in winning elections, when they're advocating a Brexit position that would be political suicide.
Single Market membership is not political suicide. 48%+ is not political suicide.
A large chunk of that 48% think that democracy means the result should be respected, and that the result being respected means changes to immigration law.
Honestly can anyone name a decent Radiohead track after Karma Police?
I feel like I need to do a Radiohead themed thread in the next fortnight.
Thom Yorke, the Jeremy Corbyn of the musical world.
Everything they have done since OK Computer is elevated.
I'm thankful I was too old for Radiohead....my youth was misspent with New Order, the Cure and the Smiths and the like. If Radiohead had been around then I would have become completely obsessed.
New Order, alongside Queen, and The Rolling Stones were the bands that made me fall in love with music.
Depeche Mode, Queen and New Order for me
Queen, ugh!
Anyone on here a Steely Dan fan?
Yes.
But I struggle to see how you can like SD and not like Queen.
I know plenty of people who like Queen and (unaccountably) really dislike the incomparable Steely Dan.
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
Because the corbynistas want her deselected? What price you want?
Momentum and Corbynistas have deselected nobody. Creasy has one of the safest seats in the country. I wouldn't put her as top of the pile for next leader, but she is not a bad punt at current odds, and would be very good in the job. Unlike May she does empathy.
@Danny565 As discussed earlier, the position Labour moderates advocate is not political suicide. Corbynistas are out touch with much of Labour's own voting base, which is predominately made up of Remain voters. While those voters want Brexit to happen, they don't want a Hard Brexit. Labour spent much of the GE decrying the May approach to Brexit, saying that they would support a 'jobs first Brexit' in contrast to TMay. Now, they essentially are admitting they share the same Brexit position as her. And lastly, not only do Corbynistas appear to be interested in winning GEs they appear to think the next one is in the bag - with their man's alleged comments at Glastonbury, after all.
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
Because the corbynistas want her deselected? What price you want?
Momentum and Corbynistas have deselected nobody. Creasy has one of the safest seats in the country. I wouldn't put her as top of the pile for next leader, but she is not a bad punt at current odds, and would be very good in the job. Unlike May she does empathy.
She's an annoying prat who the corbynistas hate. But you do as you wish
@Danny565 As discussed earlier in the thread, the position Labour moderates advocate is not political suicide. Corbynistas are out touch with much of Labour's own voting base, which is predominately made up of Remain voters. While those voters want Brexit to happen, they don't want a Hard Brexit. Labour spent much of the GE decrying the May approach to Brexit, saying that they would support a 'jobs first Brexit.' And lastly, not only do Corbynistas appear to be interested in winning GEs they appear to think the next one is in the bag - with their man's alleged comments at Glastonbury, after all.
You keep asserting this, without supporting evidence.
Since the poll showing practically no Labour voters ranked Brexit as their "#1 issue" didn't convince you, I'll ask again, can you find any person who actually did some canvassing for Labour at this election who reported that loads of people were mainly voting for them because they wanted to stop/soften Brexit?
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
Equally, so called "moderates" can't point to Corbynistas and say that they're the ones who are out of touch with the public and aren't interested in winning elections, when they're advocating a Brexit position that would be political suicide.
Single Market membership is not political suicide. 48%+ is not political suicide.
A large chunk of that 48% think that democracy means the result should be respected, and that the result being respected means changes to immigration law.
The result would be respected. There was no "stop the furriners coming here" on my ballot paper.
I don't know how many will walk away from Labour after finding out how much of a Brexiteer Corbyn is. What I do know is that they can't point and call Labour moderates 'Tories' when the man they support shares the same views on Brexit as Hard Brexit Tories.
Equally, so called "moderates" can't point to Corbynistas and say that they're the ones who are out of touch with the public and aren't interested in winning elections, when they're advocating a Brexit position that would be political suicide.
Single Market membership is not political suicide. 48%+ is not political suicide.
A large chunk of that 48% think that democracy means the result should be respected, and that the result being respected means changes to immigration law.
The result would be respected. There was no "stop the furriners coming here" on my ballot paper.
Rightly or wrongly, that is what the Leave side turned the referendum into, for most people.
@Danny565 As discussed earlier in the thread, the position Labour moderates advocate is not political suicide. Corbynistas are out touch with much of Labour's own voting base, which is predominately made up of Remain voters. While those voters want Brexit to happen, they don't want a Hard Brexit. Labour spent much of the GE decrying the May approach to Brexit, saying that they would support a 'jobs first Brexit.' And lastly, not only do Corbynistas appear to be interested in winning GEs they appear to think the next one is in the bag - with their man's alleged comments at Glastonbury, after all.
You keep asserting this, without supporting evidence.
I'll ask again, can you find any person who actually did some canvassing for Labour at this election who reported that loads of people were mainly voting for them because they wanted to stop/soften Brexit?
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
The last thing Labour need after Corbyn is a London MP like Creasy who has never had a real job in their life.
I can see why the Tories are frightened by her. It was Creasy who tabled the amendment that first defeated this government.
What have you been smoking? Clearly someone like Jarvis or Ashworth would be far more problematic for the Tories. If you're going to pick a London Leader than Starmer is a level above Creasy. Don't confuse your crushes with being a competent leader.
@Danny565 As discussed earlier, the position Labour moderates advocate is not political suicide. Corbynistas are out touch with much of Labour's own voting base, which is predominately made up of Remain voters. While those voters want Brexit to happen, they don't want a Hard Brexit. Labour spent much of the GE decrying the May approach to Brexit, saying that they would support a 'jobs first Brexit' in contrast to TMay. Now, they essentially are admitting they share the same Brexit position as her. And lastly, not only do Corbynistas appear to be interested in winning GEs they appear to think the next one is in the bag - with their man's alleged comments at Glastonbury, after all.
That's right. Corbyn is going back on his own manifesto while deriding amendments that regurgitate the manifesto
Peak Corbyn. Nice of Chukka to expose the contradictions within the Labour party so soon.
Will the Glastonbury crowd care though? I get the impression they actually like practicing double think. You can't have that much cognitive dissonance without enjoying it.
Poor rural voters in America voted to repeal Obamacare. Peak Cognitive dissonance.
the Glastonbury lot will ignore Corbyn's stance. Like Brexit Corbynism is a religion, and any contradictions are explained away by the sayings and actions (hadiths) of JC.
@Danny565 As discussed earlier in the thread, the position Labour moderates advocate is not political suicide. Corbynistas are out touch with much of Labour's own voting base, which is predominately made up of Remain voters. While those voters want Brexit to happen, they don't want a Hard Brexit. Labour spent much of the GE decrying the May approach to Brexit, saying that they would support a 'jobs first Brexit.' And lastly, not only do Corbynistas appear to be interested in winning GEs they appear to think the next one is in the bag - with their man's alleged comments at Glastonbury, after all.
You keep asserting this, without supporting evidence.
I'll ask again, can you find any person who actually did some canvassing for Labour at this election who reported that loads of people were mainly voting for them because they wanted to stop/soften Brexit?
And again, you keep on conflating a 'soft' Brexit and 'stop' Brexit as the same thing.
And judging by canvassing reports in the GE and what actually happened, I'd argue canvassing isn't the best way to judge Labour support.
Do you have the datasets for those NatCen questions, and the exact wording of the questions asked?
On your last point, you're confusing "the MPs who did their usual anonymous grumbling to the media" and "the people who did the canvassing". A lot of us who did the canvassing knew the feedback was good (as I posted quite a few times on here during the campaign), there were a lot of unexpected people saying they were considering voting Labour in the final weeks - the reason people were still sceptical that the results would be good is because the assumption was that people who were only considering voting Labour would probably end up drifting back to the Tories in the end (as appeared to happen in 2015). Even so, very few of those considerers were ever citing stopping/softening Brexit as a reason. It was almost all the NHS, tuition fees, the cuts, general sense of wanting a "better future", dissatisfaction with the Tories generally.
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
The last thing Labour need after Corbyn is a London MP like Creasy who has never had a real job in their life.
I can see why the Tories are frightened by her. It was Creasy who tabled the amendment that first defeated this government.
What have you been smoking? Clearly someone like Jarvis or Ashworth would be far more problematic for the Tories. If you're going to pick a London Leader than Starmer is a level above Creasy. Don't confuse your crushes with being a competent leader.
I think one needs as a punter to distinguish between what is going to happen and what you want to happen politically. I think Labour is likely to have a woman leader shortly. I think that will be Thornberry,but could well be Creasy, Philippe or Nancy. Of these Creasy is likely to do well with the LP party vote.
Peak Corbyn. Nice of Chukka to expose the contradictions within the Labour party so soon.
Will the Glastonbury crowd care though? I get the impression they actually like practicing double think. You can't have that much cognitive dissonance without enjoying it.
Poor rural voters in America voted to repeal Obamacare. Peak Cognitive dissonance.
the Glastonbury lot will ignore Corbyn's stance. Like Brexit Corbynism is a religion, and any contradictions are explained away by the sayings and actions (hadeeths) of JC.
This is a big problem.
The amount of cognitive dissonance possessed by voters is ridiculous and is leading us to end up with the politicians we deserve. We need a more engaged electorate who come to conclusions that at least have a level of consistency - no matter whether you are the biggest right winger of all, or the biggest left winger of all.
Far too many are making decisions based on emotions and on the idea that the world is black and white with no shades of grey. There is no such thing as the politics of easy.
Can't believe Trump voters who benefited from Obamacare voted for a man who was the candidate for a party who have been saying for seven years 'repeal and replace Obamacare.' Whose House Speaker would love to cut Medicare.
@Danny565 As discussed earlier in the thread, the position Labour moderates advocate is not political suicide. Corbynistas are out touch with much of Labour's own voting base, which is predominately made up of Remain voters. While those voters want Brexit to happen, they don't want a Hard Brexit. Labour spent much of the GE decrying the May approach to Brexit, saying that they would support a 'jobs first Brexit.' And lastly, not only do Corbynistas appear to be interested in winning GEs they appear to think the next one is in the bag - with their man's alleged comments at Glastonbury, after all.
You keep asserting this, without supporting evidence.
Since the poll showing practically no Labour voters ranked Brexit as their "#1 issue" didn't convince you, I'll ask again, can you find any person who actually did some canvassing for Labour at this election who reported that loads of people were mainly voting for them because they wanted to stop/soften Brexit?
The white working class do not vote against their own precieved economic interests at General Elections in Britain. Unlike in America where they seem happy to based on cultural wedge issues.
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
The last thing Labour need after Corbyn is a London MP like Creasy who has never had a real job in their life.
I can see why the Tories are frightened by her. It was Creasy who tabled the amendment that first defeated this government.
What have you been smoking? Clearly someone like Jarvis or Ashworth would be far more problematic for the Tories. If you're going to pick a London Leader than Starmer is a level above Creasy. Don't confuse your crushes with being a competent leader.
I think one needs as a punter to distinguish between what is going to happen and what you want to happen politically. I think Labour is likely to have a woman leader shortly. I think that will be Thornberry,but could well be Creasy, Philippe or Nancy. Of these Creasy is likely to do well with the LP party vote.
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
The last thing Labour need after Corbyn is a London MP like Creasy who has never had a real job in their life.
I am never sure in what sense politics is not "a real job", and career politicians are what we are stuck with these days, so if you don't like 'em, tough. Cameron did PR for a TV co., Osborne sold towels, and I can't see that they were any the better fr it as politicians. What we desperately need in politics is, I'm afraid, more lawyers because the key political failure we see time after time is a failure to contemplate, and have a strategy for, things not going according to expectation (GE 2015, EUref, GE 2017): any competent lawyer is forever asking himself "what if I am wrong about the law on this point? What if this witness says X in reply to my next question rather than the Y I expect?" Because if you are stymied by the unexpected on your feet in court, the fact is painfully obvious.
Do you have the datasets for those NatCen questions, and the exact wording of the questions asked?
On your last point, you're confusing "the MPs who did their usual anonymous grumbling to the media" and "the people who did the canvassing". A lot of us who did the canvassing knew the feedback was good (as I posted quite a few times on here during the campaign), there were a lot of unexpected people saying they were considering voting Labour in the final weeks - the reason people were still sceptical that the results would be good is because the assumption was that people who were only considering voting Labour would probably end up drifting back to the Tories in the end (as appeared to happen in 2015). Even so, very few of those considerers were ever citing stopping/softening Brexit as a reason. It was almost all the NHS, tuition fees, the cuts, general sense of wanting a "better future", dissatisfaction with the Tories generally.
The study itself is linked in the link, and the exact wording of the questions is also mentioned in the Guardian link as well.
I'm not confusing MPs 'who do their usual anonymous grumbling' with those who actually did the canvassing. When UK Uncut reported canvassing returns were bad, they did so not just speaking to MPs but campaigners too.
You did post that the feedback was good many times on here, but so did Tories until very late in the campaign. And at that time there were more stories about canvassing that contradicted your experiences. Given how mixed experiences were we can't judge canvassing in of itself as representative, anymore.
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
The last thing Labour need after Corbyn is a London MP like Creasy who has never had a real job in their life.
I can see why the Tories are frightened by her. It was Creasy who tabled the amendment that first defeated this government.
What have you been smoking? Clearly someone like Jarvis or Ashworth would be far more problematic for the Tories. If you're going to pick a London Leader than Starmer is a level above Creasy. Don't confuse your crushes with being a competent leader.
I think one needs as a punter to distinguish between what is going to happen and what you want to happen politically. I think Labour is likely to have a woman leader shortly. I think that will be Thornberry,but could well be Creasy, Philippe or Nancy. Of these Creasy is likely to do well with the LP party vote.
Please let it be Thornberry
Of those that I mentioned, my best outcome is Jess Philipps. I am in the green on Thornberry too, who has the advantage of being close to JC politically, free of terrorist associations and who was a surprisingly effective campaigner.
Do you have the datasets for those NatCen questions, and the exact wording of the questions asked?
On your last point, you're confusing "the MPs who did their usual anonymous grumbling to the media" and "the people who did the canvassing". A lot of us who did the canvassing knew the feedback was good (as I posted quite a few times on here during the campaign), there were a lot of unexpected people saying they were considering voting Labour in the final weeks - the reason people were still sceptical that the results would be good is because the assumption was that people who were only considering voting Labour would probably end up drifting back to the Tories in the end (as appeared to happen in 2015). Even so, very few of those considerers were ever citing stopping/softening Brexit as a reason. It was almost all the NHS, tuition fees, the cuts, general sense of wanting a "better future", dissatisfaction with the Tories generally.
The study itself is linked in the link, and the exact wording of the questions is also mentioned in the Guardian link as well.
I'm not confusing MPs 'who do their usual anonymous grumbling' with those who actually did the canvassing. When UK Uncut reported canvassing returns were bad, they did so not just speaking to MPs but campaigners too.
You did post that the feedback was good many times on here, but so did Tories until very late in the campaign. And at that time there were more stories about canvassing that contradicted your experiences. Given how mixed experiences were we can't judge canvassing in of itself as representative, anymore.
Of course canvassing reports were good. Both Labour and the Tories increased their vote substantially. The surprise came from the huge turnout of Labour possibles.
Do you have the datasets for those NatCen questions, and the exact wording of the questions asked?
On your last point, you're confusing "the MPs who did their usual anonymous grumbling to the media" and "the people who did the canvassing". A lot of us who did the canvassing knew the feedback was good (as I posted quite a few times on here during the campaign), there were a lot of unexpected people saying they were considering voting Labour in the final weeks - the reason people were still sceptical that the results would be good is because the assumption was that people who were only considering voting Labour would probably end up drifting back to the Tories in the end (as appeared to happen in 2015). Even so, very few of those considerers were ever citing stopping/softening Brexit as a reason. It was almost all the NHS, tuition fees, the cuts, general sense of wanting a "better future", dissatisfaction with the Tories generally.
The study itself is linked in the link, and the exact wording of the questions is also mentioned in the Guardian link as well.
I'm not confusing MPs 'who do their usual anonymous grumbling' with those who actually did the canvassing. When UK Uncut reported canvassing returns were bad, they did so not just speaking to MPs but campaigners too.
You did post that the feedback was good many times on here, but so did Tories until very late in the campaign. And at that time there were more stories about canvassing that contradicted your experiences. Given how mixed experiences were we can't judge canvassing in of itself as representative, anymore.
Of course canvassing reports were good. Both Labour and the Tories increased their vote substantially. The surprise came from the huge turnout of Labour possibles.
Yes, but it's been reported that the Conservatives were getting data that was so good in some cases that they even re-directed some MPs to campaign in other constituencies.....these same MPs lost their seats at the GE.
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
The last thing Labour need after Corbyn is a London MP like Creasy who has never had a real job in their life.
I can see why the Tories are frightened by her. It was Creasy who tabled the amendment that first defeated this government.
What have you been smoking? Clearly someone like Jarvis or Ashworth would be far more problematic for the Tories. If you're going to pick a London Leader than Starmer is a level above Creasy. Don't confuse your crushes with being a competent leader.
I think one needs as a punter to distinguish between what is going to happen and what you want to happen politically. I think Labour is likely to have a woman leader shortly. I think that will be Thornberry,but could well be Creasy, Philippe or Nancy. Of these Creasy is likely to do well with the LP party vote.
Please let it be Thornberry
Of those that I mentioned, my best outcome is Jess Philipps. I am in the green on Thornberry too, who has the advantage of being close to JC politically, free of terrorist associations and who was a surprisingly effective campaigner.
She is a rabid Remainer, so opposed to Corbyn on that issue, and the WWC hate her.
Also a rentier having bought an ex-authority property as in investment, total Islington no idea what happens in the real world idiot.
The media will slaughter her and rightly so, lay her for all you are worth.
Do you have the datasets for those NatCen questions, and the exact wording of the questions asked?
On your last point, you're confusing "the MPs who did their usual anonymous grumbling to the media" and "the people who did the canvassing". A lot of us who did the canvassing knew the feedback was good (as I posted quite a few times on here during the campaign), there were a lot of unexpected people saying they were considering voting Labour in the final weeks - the reason people were still sceptical that the results would be good is because the assumption was that people who were only considering voting Labour would probably end up drifting back to the Tories in the end (as appeared to happen in 2015). Even so, very few of those considerers were ever citing stopping/softening Brexit as a reason. It was almost all the NHS, tuition fees, the cuts, general sense of wanting a "better future", dissatisfaction with the Tories generally.
The study itself is linked in the link, and the exact wording of the questions is also mentioned in the Guardian link as well.
I'm not confusing MPs 'who do their usual anonymous grumbling' with those who actually did the canvassing. When UK Uncut reported canvassing returns were bad, they did so not just speaking to MPs but campaigners too.
You did post that the feedback was good many times on here, but so did Tories until very late in the campaign. And at that time there were more stories about canvassing that contradicted your experiences. Given how mixed experiences were we can't judge canvassing in of itself as representative, anymore.
You're not seriously treating Labour Uncut as a reliable source, are you?!?!?
Even in their much-fabled 2015 story predicting Labour was on course for disaster (even a broken clock, etc.), they stated that postal returns in Scotland were better than expected, which turned out to be a load of bollocks. They literally just make things up.
Do you have the datasets for those NatCen questions, and the exact wording of the questions asked?
On your last point, you're confusing "the MPs who did their usual anonymous grumbling to the media" and "the people who did the canvassing". A lot of us who did the canvassing knew the feedback was good (as I posted quite a few times on here during the campaign), there were a lot of unexpected people saying they were considering voting Labour in the final weeks - the reason people were still sceptical that the results would be good is because the assumption was that people who were only considering voting Labour would probably end up drifting back to the Tories in the end (as appeared to happen in 2015). Even so, very few of those considerers were ever citing stopping/softening Brexit as a reason. It was almost all the NHS, tuition fees, the cuts, general sense of wanting a "better future", dissatisfaction with the Tories generally.
The study itself is linked in the link, and the exact wording of the questions is also mentioned in the Guardian link as well.
I'm not confusing MPs 'who do their usual anonymous grumbling' with those who actually did the canvassing. When UK Uncut reported canvassing returns were bad, they did so not just speaking to MPs but campaigners too.
You did post that the feedback was good many times on here, but so did Tories until very late in the campaign. And at that time there were more stories about canvassing that contradicted your experiences. Given how mixed experiences were we can't judge canvassing in of itself as representative, anymore.
You're not seriously treating Labour Uncut as a reliable source, are you?!?!?
Even in their much-fabled 2015 story predicting Labour was on course for disaster (even a broken clock, etc.), they stated that postal returns in Scotland were better than expected, which turned out to be a load of bollocks. They literally just make things up.
Yes. They also called it re Labour Leavers on Brexit.
Getting one part of their story wrong, doesn't change the fact that they still got it right.
Do you have the datasets for those NatCen questions, and the exact wording of the questions asked?
On your last point, you're confusing "the MPs who did their usual anonymous grumbling to the media" and "the people who did the canvassing". A lot of us who did the canvassing knew the feedback was good (as I posted quite a few times on here during the campaign), there were a lot of unexpected people saying they were considering voting Labour in the final weeks - the reason people were still sceptical that the results would be good is because the assumption was that people who were only considering voting Labour would probably end up drifting back to the Tories in the end (as appeared to happen in 2015). Even so, very few of those considerers were ever citing stopping/softening Brexit as a reason. It was almost all the NHS, tuition fees, the cuts, general sense of wanting a "better future", dissatisfaction with the Tories generally.
The study itself is linked in the link, and the exact wording of the questions is also mentioned in the Guardian link as well.
I'm not confusing MPs 'who do their usual anonymous grumbling' with those who actually did the canvassing. When UK Uncut reported canvassing returns were bad, they did so not just speaking to MPs but campaigners too.
You did post that the feedback was good many times on here, but so did Tories until very late in the campaign. And at that time there were more stories about canvassing that contradicted your experiences. Given how mixed experiences were we can't judge canvassing in of itself as representative, anymore.
Of course canvassing reports were good. Both Labour and the Tories increased their vote substantially. The surprise came from the huge turnout of Labour possibles.
Yes, but it's been reported that the Conservatives were getting data that was so good in some cases that they even re-directed some MPs to campaign in other constituencies.....these same MPs lost their seats at the GE.
That probably shows how futile it is to dismiss your opponents and not canvass them, We know we are winning, 'cos we are getting our vote out. Meanwhile, our rivals are REALLY getting the vote out...
Do you have the datasets for those NatCen questions, and the exact wording of the questions asked?
On your last point, you're confusing "the MPs who did their usual anonymous grumbling to the media" and "the people who did the canvassing". A lot of us who did the canvassing knew the feedback was good (as I posted quite a few times on here during the campaign), there were a lot of unexpected people saying they were considering voting Labour in the final weeks - the reason people were still sceptical that the results would be good is because the assumption was that people who were only considering voting Labour would probably end up drifting back to the Tories in the end (as appeared to happen in 2015). Even so, very few of those considerers were ever citing stopping/softening Brexit as a reason. It was almost all the NHS, tuition fees, the cuts, general sense of wanting a "better future", dissatisfaction with the Tories generally.
The study itself is linked in the link, and the exact wording of the questions is also mentioned in the Guardian link as well.
I'm not confusing MPs 'who do their usual anonymous grumbling' with those who actually did the canvassing. When UK Uncut reported canvassing returns were bad, they did so not just speaking to MPs but campaigners too.
You did post that the feedback was good many times on here, but so did Tories until very late in the campaign. And at that time there were more stories about canvassing that contradicted your experiences. Given how mixed experiences were we can't judge canvassing in of itself as representative, anymore.
You're not seriously treating Labour Uncut as a reliable source, are you?!?!?
Even in their much-fabled 2015 story predicting Labour was on course for disaster (even a broken clock, etc.), they stated that postal returns in Scotland were better than expected, which turned out to be a load of bollocks. They literally just make things up.
Yes. They also called it re Labour Leavers on Brexit.
Getting one part of their story wrong, doesn't change the fact that they still got it right.
Yes, they got it right because "even a broken clock is right twice a day".
Since they were evidently bullshitting about the Scottish results, does it not follow that they were probably bullshitting about the other results too? And if they were bullshitting in 2015, why would you assume they were not also bullshitting in their claims that canvassers were finding appalling feedback in 2017?
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
The last thing Labour need after Corbyn is a London MP like Creasy who has never had a real job in their life.
I can see why the Tories are frightened by her. It was Creasy who tabled the amendment that first defeated this government.
What have you been smoking? Clearly someone like Jarvis or Ashworth would be far more problematic for the Tories. If you're going to pick a London Leader than Starmer is a level above Creasy. Don't confuse your crushes with being a competent leader.
I think one needs as a punter to distinguish between what is going to happen and what you want to happen politically. I think Labour is likely to have a woman leader shortly. I think that will be Thornberry,but could well be Creasy, Philippe or Nancy. Of these Creasy is likely to do well with the LP party vote.
Please let it be Thornberry
Of those that I mentioned, my best outcome is Jess Philipps. I am in the green on Thornberry too, who has the advantage of being close to JC politically, free of terrorist associations and who was a surprisingly effective campaigner.
She is a rabid Remainer, so opposed to Corbyn on that issue, and the WWC hate her.
Also a rentier having bought an ex-authority property as in investment, total Islington no idea what happens in the real world idiot.
The media will slaughter her and rightly so, lay her for all you are worth.
My bets are for leader not PM. I don't think the voters at GE favour your frothing worldview.
And who 1st, given the Tories will deffo be behind Labour :-)?
Of all the Labour MPs we had to choose a leader that is one of the handful of anti-EU MPs and at such a critical time.
As it dawns on people how pro-Brexit he really is I think a split in the Labour party will become highly likely and he will lose many of the new votes he gained a couple of weeks ago.
But it was not a Brexit election - had it been so Theresa May would have won a clear majority..
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
The last thing Labour need after Corbyn is a London MP like Creasy who has never had a real job in their life.
I can see why the Tories are frightened by her. It was Creasy who tabled the amendment that first defeated this government.
What have you been smoking? Clearly someone like Jarvis or Ashworth would be far more problematic for the Tories. If you're going to pick a London Leader than Starmer is a level above Creasy. Don't confuse your crushes with being a competent leader.
I think one needs as a punter to distinguish between what is going to happen and what you want to happen politically. I think Labour is likely to have a woman leader shortly. I think that will be Thornberry,but could well be Creasy, Philippe or Nancy. Of these Creasy is likely to do well with the LP party vote.
Please let it be Thornberry
Of those that I mentioned, my best outcome is Jess Philipps. I am in the green on Thornberry too, who has the advantage of being close to JC politically, free of terrorist associations and who was a surprisingly effective campaigner.
She is a rabid Remainer, so opposed to Corbyn on that issue, and the WWC hate her.
Also a rentier having bought an ex-authority property as in investment, total Islington no idea what happens in the real world idiot.
The media will slaughter her and rightly so, lay her for all you are worth.
My bets are for leader not PM. I don't think the voters at GE favour your frothing worldview.
My realistic view I think you mean.
I sincerely hope your bet for her to be leader proves to be a winner, because Labour would be annihilated with her in charge.
Yes, they got it right because "even a broken clock is right twice a day".
Since they were evidently bullshitting about the Scottish results, does it not follow that they were probably bullshitting about the other results too? And if they were bullshitting in 2015, why would you assume they were not also bullshitting in their claims that canvassers were finding appalling feedback in 2017?
I know about the broken clock thing, but I don't think this is a case with that.
They were 'evidently bullshitting about the Scottish results' - they got that part of their story wrong. Sometimes things aren't 100% accurate.
As they got the rest of the story right, it does not follow that they were 'bullshitting' in 2017. Simply, that they got it wrong in 2017. Like many others did.
And who 1st, given the Tories will deffo be behind Labour :-)?
Of all the Labour MPs we had to choose a leader that is one of the handful of anti-EU MPs and at such a critical time.
As it dawns on people how pro-Brexit he really is I think a split in the Labour party will become highly likely and he will lose many of the new votes he gained a couple of weeks ago.
But it was not a Brexit election - had it been so Theresa May would have won a clear majority..
Indeed. People are heartily sick of hearing from the 15% of loons on either side, while real incomes fall. It is why the LD's didn't break through, why there is no Tory majority, and why JC talking about just about anything else cut through.
Yes, they got it right because "even a broken clock is right twice a day".
Since they were evidently bullshitting about the Scottish results, does it not follow that they were probably bullshitting about the other results too? And if they were bullshitting in 2015, why would you assume they were not also bullshitting in their claims that canvassers were finding appalling feedback in 2017?
I know about the broken clock thing, but I don't think this is a case with that.
They were 'evidently bullshitting about the Scottish results' - they got that part of their story wrong. Sometimes things aren't 100% accurate.
As they got the rest of the story right, it does not follow that they were 'bullshitting' in 2017. Simply, that they got it wrong in 2017. Like many others did.
Goodnight.
But it's not just a case of being wrong. They didn't present their claims about Scotland as an educated guess. They definitively stated that postal ballots data showed they were doing better than expected in Scotland:
The opinion polls deal with Scotland as a whole where the huge reserves of SNP support in places like Glasgow deliver blow-out figures that suggest almost every Labour MP will lose their seat. However on a constituency basis, the distribution of support is much more even and Labour is competitive in seats that the polls suggest are lost.
According to the postal ballot reports, over half of Labour’s seats are genuinely winnable.
This is why so many Labour resources have been moved north of the border and the party has pivoted its campaign towards Scotland.
It wasn't a case of being wrong, they were flat out lying by claiming they'd seen data, when the real results showed they hadn't actually seen that data at all. So why would you assume they weren't doing the same when they talked about canvassing data again this year?
This soppy cow from The Canary on QT is embarassing
Stella is a star though...
"If you don't like gay marriage, don't propose to a man!!"
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I see why PB Tories don't like her, but savvy punters can see why she is a good punt for Labour leader.
The last thing Labour need after Corbyn is a London MP like Creasy who has never had a real job in their life.
I can see why the Tories are frightened by her. It was Creasy who tabled the amendment that first defeated this government.
What have you been smoking? Clearly someone like Jarvis or Ashworth would be far more problematic for the Tories. If you're going to pick a London Leader than Starmer is a level above Creasy. Don't confuse your crushes with being a competent leader.
I think one needs as a punter to distinguish between what is going to happen and what you want to happen politically. I think Labour is likely to have a woman leader shortly. I think that will be Thornberry,but could well be Creasy, Philippe or Nancy. Of these Creasy is likely to do well with the LP party vote.
Please let it be Thornberry
Of those that I mentioned, my best outcome is Jess Philipps. I am in the green on Thornberry too, who has the advantage of being close to JC politically, free of terrorist associations and who was a surprisingly effective campaigner.
She is a rabid Remainer, so opposed to Corbyn on that issue, and the WWC hate her.
Also a rentier having bought an ex-authority property as in investment, total Islington no idea what happens in the real world idiot.
The media will slaughter her and rightly so, lay her for all you are worth.
My bets are for leader not PM. I don't think the voters at GE favour your frothing worldview.
My realistic view I think you mean.
I sincerely hope your bet for her to be leader proves to be a winner, because Labour would be annihilated with her in charge.
A lot of people on here said that about the guy with a beard from Islington.
And who 1st, given the Tories will deffo be behind Labour :-)?
Of all the Labour MPs we had to choose a leader that is one of the handful of anti-EU MPs and at such a critical time.
As it dawns on people how pro-Brexit he really is I think a split in the Labour party will become highly likely and he will lose many of the new votes he gained a couple of weeks ago.
But it was not a Brexit election - had it been so Theresa May would have won a clear majority..
Or rather, UKIP would have swept to power with an overall majority, seeing that all the other party leaders had supported Remain.
Comments
This is the second best music video filmed on a moving train!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEjU9KVABao
All subjective of course
I used to like 10cc in the 70's but it sounds terribly dated now
Normal service has resumed I see. Bet Jezza's quaking!
Hey Jude must be one of the simplest songs ever written but is brilliant, largely a McCartney composition I believe
In my view as a fairly hardcore Queen fan, Bo Rhap and Rhye (either version) aren't even in my top 10 Queen songs. Probably not in my top 20.
Will the Glastonbury crowd care though? I get the impression they actually like practicing double think. You can't have that much cognitive dissonance without enjoying it.
'Perhaps you should talk to some Labour people for a change'. Err I do - my Twitter timeline is literally filled with Corbynistas that I know. Try again.
'Labour has increased its membership substantially since the election.' I'm aware that Labour's membership has increased, but that was (a. before today (b. by not as nearly as much as Corbynistas were telling us was the case.
'In my mind Jeremys position on brexit is clear, even if it isn't to you.' Don't know what post you were reading, as my post did not imply I wasn't clear on his position regarding Brexit. On the contray, I was criticizing his position on Brexit.
'My conversations with members mainly revolve around matters like pay freezes, poverty and culpability for recent disasters.' And what those members don't seem to understand is that in order to solve those problems, we need money, and thus we need the economy to do well. If a Hard Brexit is an economic disaster you and the members you know can kiss goodbye to solving those issues as the money simply won't be there to do so.
Now, what would be really interesting is if Lab really do commit to hard brexit, then the tories chuck May and put in a soft brexiting Hammond. What would that do to voter coalitions?
@Sean_F I think it's more than that. I think many in Labour are convinced that Labour is inherently 'good' and thus everything the party does is inherently good no matter what. It's all about the Labour brand. Whereas in reality, you are only inherently 'good' if your actions back that up.
@isam They won't ignore it. They can't.
https://youtu.be/yAbo7Qz6Qik
. A falling star rather than a shooting one.
Getting shown up by Liam Fox is not good for your career
"I don't like page 3, it should be banned!"
I think all PBers can agree that William Morris ward ought to be a strong socialist defence.
Some things transcend party politics.
The Canary vs the Sunday Express
They both played shit and were lucky to get nil.
@Bobajob_PB The Canary is Breitbart for the alt-left.
Eastleigh LD hold
LD 668
Con 316
Lab 144
Green 41
UKIP 14
2015 result was
LD 1649
Con 1512
Lab 452
UKIP 408
Since the poll showing practically no Labour voters ranked Brexit as their "#1 issue" didn't convince you, I'll ask again, can you find any person who actually did some canvassing for Labour at this election who reported that loads of people were mainly voting for them because they wanted to stop/soften Brexit?
And again, you keep on conflating a 'soft' Brexit and 'stop' Brexit as the same thing.
And judging by canvassing reports in the GE and what actually happened, I'd argue canvassing isn't the best way to judge Labour support.
the Glastonbury lot will ignore Corbyn's stance. Like Brexit Corbynism is a religion, and any contradictions are explained away by the sayings and actions (hadiths) of JC.
On your last point, you're confusing "the MPs who did their usual anonymous grumbling to the media" and "the people who did the canvassing". A lot of us who did the canvassing knew the feedback was good (as I posted quite a few times on here during the campaign), there were a lot of unexpected people saying they were considering voting Labour in the final weeks - the reason people were still sceptical that the results would be good is because the assumption was that people who were only considering voting Labour would probably end up drifting back to the Tories in the end (as appeared to happen in 2015). Even so, very few of those considerers were ever citing stopping/softening Brexit as a reason. It was almost all the NHS, tuition fees, the cuts, general sense of wanting a "better future", dissatisfaction with the Tories generally.
The amount of cognitive dissonance possessed by voters is ridiculous and is leading us to end up with the politicians we deserve. We need a more engaged electorate who come to conclusions that at least have a level of consistency - no matter whether you are the biggest right winger of all, or the biggest left winger of all.
Far too many are making decisions based on emotions and on the idea that the world is black and white with no shades of grey. There is no such thing as the politics of easy.
Can't believe Trump voters who benefited from Obamacare voted for a man who was the candidate for a party who have been saying for seven years 'repeal and replace Obamacare.' Whose House Speaker would love to cut Medicare.
I'm not confusing MPs 'who do their usual anonymous grumbling' with those who actually did the canvassing. When UK Uncut reported canvassing returns were bad, they did so not just speaking to MPs but campaigners too.
You did post that the feedback was good many times on here, but so did Tories until very late in the campaign. And at that time there were more stories about canvassing that contradicted your experiences. Given how mixed experiences were we can't judge canvassing in of itself as representative, anymore.
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/880446639143628800
Also a rentier having bought an ex-authority property as in investment, total Islington no idea what happens in the real world idiot.
The media will slaughter her and rightly so, lay her for all you are worth.
Even in their much-fabled 2015 story predicting Labour was on course for disaster (even a broken clock, etc.), they stated that postal returns in Scotland were better than expected, which turned out to be a load of bollocks. They literally just make things up.
Getting one part of their story wrong, doesn't change the fact that they still got it right.
Since they were evidently bullshitting about the Scottish results, does it not follow that they were probably bullshitting about the other results too? And if they were bullshitting in 2015, why would you assume they were not also bullshitting in their claims that canvassers were finding appalling feedback in 2017?
I sincerely hope your bet for her to be leader proves to be a winner, because Labour would be annihilated with her in charge.
They were 'evidently bullshitting about the Scottish results' - they got that part of their story wrong. Sometimes things aren't 100% accurate.
As they got the rest of the story right, it does not follow that they were 'bullshitting' in 2017. Simply, that they got it wrong in 2017. Like many others did.
Goodnight.
Brexit is an issue only for the obsessed.
The opinion polls deal with Scotland as a whole where the huge reserves of SNP support in places like Glasgow deliver blow-out figures that suggest almost every Labour MP will lose their seat. However on a constituency basis, the distribution of support is much more even and Labour is competitive in seats that the polls suggest are lost.
According to the postal ballot reports, over half of Labour’s seats are genuinely winnable.
This is why so many Labour resources have been moved north of the border and the party has pivoted its campaign towards Scotland.
http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/05/02/revealed-eds-night-time-dash-to-casa-brand-driven-by-postal-ballot-panic/
It wasn't a case of being wrong, they were flat out lying by claiming they'd seen data, when the real results showed they hadn't actually seen that data at all. So why would you assume they weren't doing the same when they talked about canvassing data again this year?
https://twitter.com/bbcthisweek/status/880572426521849857