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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New YouGov poll has Corbyn ahead of TMay as “best PM”

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  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Aston Ham United...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/878006938969100288

    I don't mean to be funny, but don't most people these days make use of storage lockers and do in fact take time to move all their things in?
    The storage locker business is booming by all accounts.

    I know I have...and no I don't own multiple homes.
    My most recent house move (2013) wasn't really a house move.

    I kept the flat, and moved in with my parents.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    nrs3079 said:

    QT something happens tonight that has never happened before.

    What ?
    Dramatic never seen before thing apparently.
    Two Peter Oborne's turn up, the Daily Mail columnist and his doppleganger from the Mail Online... they are totally unreleated to each other
    My bets on a fight breaking out or a least a small scuffle. Who's on?
    Oborne looks half-cut. You could be right.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    nrs3079 said:

    QT something happens tonight that has never happened before.

    What ?
    Dramatic never seen before thing apparently.
    Two Peter Oborne's turn up, the Daily Mail columnist and his doppleganger from the Mail Online... they are totally unreleated to each other
    My bets on a fight breaking out or a least a small scuffle. Who's on?
    Oborne looks half-cut. You could be right.
    Oborne has always liked a drink I think....
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    He supports Aston villa or was it West ham ,some team in claret and blue.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:

    "In first YouGov poll after calling the general election TMay was leading Corbyn by 54-15% as who would make the best PM."

    And all the research and pretty graphs showed that that lead implied a 1983+ result.

    But it didn't, and TMay will never fight another election. So who cares?

    Because Mrs May is contaminating the Tory brand further, it is political osmosis.
    She's done as much contaminating as she's ever going to do - in fact, she won't be able to push through any of her unpopular policies, precisely because of her crap result.

    Another leader now = another election in 6 months = Corbyn + McDonnell + Abbott as PM and CotE and HomSec - why the heck would you want that to happen?

    The FTPA means there's no early election when Mrs May is toppled.
    Legally, yes - but then legally Corbyn didn't have to agree to give May the 2/3 majority needed to call the election immediately. He did it because of the political imperative not to look like a coward.

    Another unelected Tory PM governing on the strength of May's minority mandate, who then refused an election? _That_ would sink the Tory brand like nothing else.

    Look, May is shit. She lost an unlosable election, and I'll hate her for it until my dying day. But for the time being she needs to weather the political storm, be the scapegoat that gets us through Brexit and takes the heat for all the unpopular compromises it will involve, before we get a new leader with a new platform designed to win a post-Brexit election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    shiney2 said:

    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Tories gone soppy. She should have gone two weeks ago.

    All this protesting makes me think you're actually a little worried that she's staying....
    last spasm of the remoaners before they fly off to Tuscany hols.
    I don't go until the end of July - plenty of time yet!
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059

    I see JC is taking to the stage at Glastonbury..... Nice for Tom Watson to see him

    Asking for a friend who is writing a thread for PB.

    Is this Bobby Sol's worst miss?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmcqYBIP9MQ
    Brilliant stuff... great defensive clearance.
    Probably in the next ten days there will be a thread on PB comparing Mrs May to Roberto Soldado.
    2 of my personal heroes.... along with jade Dernbach and Richard Burgon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    Mortimer said:
    How the Tories would have taken the pasty tax instead of the dementia tax during the campaign.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,281
    edited June 2017

    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:

    "In first YouGov poll after calling the general election TMay was leading Corbyn by 54-15% as who would make the best PM."

    And all the research and pretty graphs showed that that lead implied a 1983+ result.

    But it didn't, and TMay will never fight another election. So who cares?

    Because Mrs May is contaminating the Tory brand further, it is political osmosis.
    She's done as much contaminating as she's ever going to do - in fact, she won't be able to push through any of her unpopular policies, precisely because of her crap result.

    Another leader now = another election in 6 months = Corbyn + McDonnell + Abbott as PM and CotE and HomSec - why the heck would you want that to happen?

    The FTPA means there's no early election when Mrs May is toppled.
    The key to keeping Corbyn out of Downing Street is to delay the GE as long as possible.

    May staying for now guarantees no GE.

    Of course you're right - a new PM doesn't mean a GE. But a new PM may foolishly be tempted to go for a GE - so changing PM does increase the risk.

    In my view if this Parliament lasts several years then how long May carries on isn't going to make much difference. It might well be best for May to do Brexit and then let a new PM come in in 2019.

    The performance and campaigning skills of the new PM will determine how well Con does at the GE.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    GIN1138 said:

    nrs3079 said:

    QT something happens tonight that has never happened before.

    What ?
    Dramatic never seen before thing apparently.
    Two Peter Oborne's turn up, the Daily Mail columnist and his doppleganger from the Mail Online... they are totally unreleated to each other
    My bets on a fight breaking out or a least a small scuffle. Who's on?
    Oborne looks half-cut. You could be right.
    Oborne has always liked a drink I think....
    Ashworth had an alcoholic dad, and has spoken most movingly on the subject. I think he is pretty anti alcohol.
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274

    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:

    "In first YouGov poll after calling the general election TMay was leading Corbyn by 54-15% as who would make the best PM."

    And all the research and pretty graphs showed that that lead implied a 1983+ result.

    But it didn't, and TMay will never fight another election. So who cares?

    Because Mrs May is contaminating the Tory brand further, it is political osmosis.
    She's done as much contaminating as she's ever going to do - in fact, she won't be able to push through any of her unpopular policies, precisely because of her crap result.

    Another leader now = another election in 6 months = Corbyn + McDonnell + Abbott as PM and CotE and HomSec - why the heck would you want that to happen?

    The FTPA means there's no early election when Mrs May is toppled.
    So long as the new PM commands the House he or she is legitimate regardless of th FTPA. It is never necessary to hold a GE when a new PM comes in.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Tories gone soppy. She should have gone two weeks ago.

    All this protesting makes me think you're actually a little worried that she's staying....
    Exactly!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Mortimer said:
    How the Tories would have taken the pasty tax instead of the dementia tax during the campaign.
    Osborne's disability cuts were mentioned far more than the dementia tax in my canvassing...

    10:1 ratio, at least.

    The worst type of gaffe is when you're not even aware you've made a gaffe. If IDS is pointing out that you're making a political boob, you really are....
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    nrs3079 said:

    QT something happens tonight that has never happened before.

    What ?
    Dramatic never seen before thing apparently.
    Two Peter Oborne's turn up, the Daily Mail columnist and his doppleganger from the Mail Online... they are totally unreleated to each other
    My bets on a fight breaking out or a least a small scuffle. Who's on?
    Oborne looks half-cut. You could be right.
    Yes. I think so. The announcer implied that when he said "a heated argument is an understatement".
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited June 2017

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,013

    Rochdale is there on Friday IIRC
    Indeed i am. I won't be fighting though...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Rochdale is there on Friday IIRC
    Indeed i am. I won't be fighting though...
    I bet that is what the barrel chested shirtless ape in that video said to his wife before he set off this morning ;-)
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    I'm trying to remember what Cameron's majority was back in 2010, can somebody remind me?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    blueblue said:

    blueblue said:

    "In first YouGov poll after calling the general election TMay was leading Corbyn by 54-15% as who would make the best PM."

    And all the research and pretty graphs showed that that lead implied a 1983+ result.

    But it didn't, and TMay will never fight another election. So who cares?

    Because Mrs May is contaminating the Tory brand further, it is political osmosis.
    She's done as much contaminating as she's ever going to do - in fact, she won't be able to push through any of her unpopular policies, precisely because of her crap result.

    Another leader now = another election in 6 months = Corbyn + McDonnell + Abbott as PM and CotE and HomSec - why the heck would you want that to happen?

    The FTPA means there's no early election when Mrs May is toppled.
    The Conservative manifesto included repeal of the FTPA.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    FPT

    I think Theresa May has grabbed the initiative on the EU citizens and caught the EU on the hop

    Why couldn't she be bold and make it a unilateral offer
    For the same reason that has applied for the last year: a UK PM cannot hang out to dry British citizens living in the EU27.

    That's exactly what she's doing. She is proposing the have fewer rights than they do now.
    And fewer rights than the EU is proposing to offer, assuming May wants her terms to be reciprocal.
    And politically, the EU politically would have to reciprocate anyway.

    The EU offer was tabled on 12th June:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en

    It is far more generous to UK citizens than the May proposal.
    Rubbish - it enshrines the ECJ as final arbiter in the uk for millions of UK residents.

    "IV. Enforcement and dispute settlement rules
    (1) The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the
    European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection
    of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement. "

    Residency rights dependent on a non-democratic unaccountable foreign body with an interest in damaging the host country... And you think it bound to work in the peoples' interest.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Another Davis triumph ...

    We are going to get creamed...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Has Ian Blackford got the job of sanctimonious SNP talking head now Angus has disappeared >?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Pulpstar said:

    Has Ian Blackford got the job of sanctimonious SNP talking head now Angus has disappeared >?

    He has it down pat. Kudos to him..... :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    OchEye said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    I'm trying to remember what Cameron's majority was back in 2010, can somebody remind me?
    Is all about the net seat gains.

    From 198 seats to 306 seats.

    Biggest Tory seat increase since 1931 IIRC
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited June 2017
    GIN1138 said:


    That was a dog of a campaign wasn't it... :D

    If they were a football team they'd have turned up drunk, subbed the goalie for a scarecrow, and worn lead boots. Oh, and headbutted the ref at kickoff for good measure.

    Couldn't have done worse if they tried.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
    In fairness though, he was right about that one.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    PB Leavers to brush this off in 3, 2, 1...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    shiney2 said:

    FPT

    I think Theresa May has grabbed the initiative on the EU citizens and caught the EU on the hop

    Why couldn't she be bold and make it a unilateral offer
    For the same reason that has applied for the last year: a UK PM cannot hang out to dry British citizens living in the EU27.

    That's exactly what she's doing. She is proposing the have fewer rights than they do now.
    And fewer rights than the EU is proposing to offer, assuming May wants her terms to be reciprocal.
    And politically, the EU politically would have to reciprocate anyway.

    The EU offer was tabled on 12th June:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en

    It is far more generous to UK citizens than the May proposal.
    Rubbish - it enshrines the ECJ as final arbiter in the uk for millions of UK residents.

    "IV. Enforcement and dispute settlement rules
    (1) The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the
    European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection
    of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement. "

    Residency rights dependent on a non-democratic unaccountable foreign body with an interest in damaging the host country... And you think it bound to work in the peoples' interest.

    The ECJ interprets European law. It will continue to do so. If UK courts incorrectly apply it the ECJ will say so. Residency rights will be the rights the UK and the EU27 agree between them.

  • saddosaddo Posts: 534
    Tory party as a whole isn't stupid. They will play it long. May does the hard yards over the next 2 years. If she turns her image around via hard graft, she can stay. If she doesn't, she will take any heat and shiny new leader can take on 70 year old plus Corbyn in 2020 or beyond
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2017
    So, in summary, and admitting all of Mrs May's faults, 65% of respondents to the poll are completely bonkers. (or are telling the pollster porkies, of course),
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
    In fairness though, he was right about that one.
    Was he,4 million votes says different.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    The EU have decided to take back control
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Ashworth looks like he is about to explode with self-righteous indignation....
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    shiney2 said:

    FPT

    I think Theresa May has grabbed the initiative on the EU citizens and caught the EU on the hop

    Why couldn't she be bold and make it a unilateral offer
    For the same reason that has applied for the last year: a UK PM cannot hang out to dry British citizens living in the EU27.

    That's exactly what she's doing. She is proposing the have fewer rights than they do now.
    And fewer rights than the EU is proposing to offer, assuming May wants her terms to be reciprocal.
    And politically, the EU politically would have to reciprocate anyway.

    The EU offer was tabled on 12th June:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en

    It is far more generous to UK citizens than the May proposal.
    Rubbish - it enshrines the ECJ as final arbiter in the uk for millions of UK residents.

    "IV. Enforcement and dispute settlement rules
    (1) The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the
    European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection
    of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement. "

    Residency rights dependent on a non-democratic unaccountable foreign body with an interest in damaging the host country... And you think it bound to work in the peoples' interest.

    The ECJ interprets European law. It will continue to do so. If UK courts incorrectly apply it the ECJ will say so. Residency rights will be the rights the UK and the EU27 agree between them.


    When we are OUT, we are OUT (of the EU law and all its anti democratic works).

    BOO
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
    Wait, the EU have a good reputation in this country?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Mortimer said:

    Ashworth looks like he is about to explode with self-righteous indignation....

    If the SNP bloke doesn't beat him to it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
    Wait, the EU have a good reputation in this country?
    Did anyone seriously expect us to keep EU "stuff" in this country post Brexit ?

    Really ?!
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    saddo said:

    Tory party as a whole isn't stupid. They will play it long. May does the hard yards over the next 2 years. If she turns her image around via hard graft, she can stay. If she doesn't, she will take any heat and shiny new leader can take on 70 year old plus Corbyn in 2020 or beyond

    Precisely - it's the best possible way of playing a rubbish hand. A new younger leader with a feel-good manifesto against a clapped-out fantasist who thinks he's been PM for the last several years? Bring it on...
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Mortimer said:

    Ashworth looks like he is about to explode with self-righteous indignation....

    He sounds like Orville the duck.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    When you read some of the comments on this thread and watch bbcqt , it's hard to avoid the conclusion that this country is totally, utterly screwed.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
    In fairness though, he was right about that one.
    Was he,4 million votes says different.
    No. Four million votes says something, not necessarily different though!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    Jason said:

    Mortimer said:

    Ashworth looks like he is about to explode with self-righteous indignation....

    He sounds like Orville the duck.
    YES!

    Nailed it. I couldn't think who he reminded me of.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    shiney2 said:

    shiney2 said:

    FPT

    I think Theresa May has grabbed the initiative on the EU citizens and caught the EU on the hop

    Why couldn't she be bold and make it a unilateral offer
    For the same reason that has applied for the last year: a UK PM cannot hang out to dry British citizens living in the EU27.

    That's exactly what she's doing. She is proposing the have fewer rights than they do now.
    And fewer rights than the EU is proposing to offer, assuming May wants her terms to be reciprocal.
    And politically, the EU politically would have to reciprocate anyway.

    The EU offer was tabled on 12th June:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en

    It is far more generous to UK citizens than the May proposal.
    Rubbish - it enshrines the ECJ as final arbiter in the uk for millions of UK residents.

    "IV. Enforcement and dispute settlement rules
    (1) The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the
    European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection
    of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement. "

    Residency rights dependent on a non-democratic unaccountable foreign body with an interest in damaging the host country... And you think it bound to work in the peoples' interest.

    The ECJ interprets European law. It will continue to do so. If UK courts incorrectly apply it the ECJ will say so. Residency rights will be the rights the UK and the EU27 agree between them.


    When we are OUT, we are OUT (of the EU law and all its anti democratic works).

    BOO

    That depends on what deal is agreed.

  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    Jonathan said:

    When you read some of the comments on this thread and watch bbcqt , it's hard to avoid the conclusion that this country is totally, utterly screwed.

    There are some prize thickos in the QT audience tonight.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Jonathan said:

    When you read some of the comments on this thread and watch bbcqt , it's hard to avoid the conclusion that this country is totally, utterly screwed.

    Bobby Sol's emigrated. . It's going to be OK
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
    In fairness though, he was right about that one.
    Was he,4 million votes says different.
    No. Four million votes says something, not necessarily different though!
    It says you are a bigot and a sore loser. Not sure it says much else apart from that.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    Pulpstar said:

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
    Wait, the EU have a good reputation in this country?
    Did anyone seriously expect us to keep EU "stuff" in this country post Brexit ?

    Really ?!

    David Davis seems to have - or at least people speaking on behalf of his department.

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
    Wait, the EU have a good reputation in this country?
    The metropolitan elite TV news media,oh yes,the EU can't do no wrong.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
    Wait, the EU have a good reputation in this country?
    The metropolitan elite TV news media,oh yes,the EU can't do no wrong.
    Oh grow up.

    I can tell you're upset that Mrs May is deporting all those EU citizens you don't like.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
    In fairness though, he was right about that one.
    Was he,4 million votes says different.
    No. Four million votes says something, not necessarily different though!
    Idiot.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    The EU have decided to take back control
    Wow look at the desperation. Clinging on to Faisal Islam tweets because they can't cope with the reality. No doubt you shed a tear when Donald Task was begging us to stay and the British public said "thanks but no thanks". :)
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    edited June 2017
    Orville is a prize Corbynite tool, isn't he?
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    shiney2 said:

    shiney2 said:

    FPT

    I think Theresa May has grabbed the initiative on the EU citizens and caught the EU on the hop

    Why couldn't she be bold and make it a unilateral offer
    For the same reason that has applied for the last year: a UK PM cannot hang out to dry British citizens living in the EU27.

    That's exactly what she's doing. She is proposing the have fewer rights than they do now.
    And fewer rights than the EU is proposing to offer, assuming May wants her terms to be reciprocal.
    And politically, the EU politically would have to reciprocate anyway.

    The EU offer was tabled on 12th June:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en

    It is far more generous to UK citizens than the May proposal.
    Rubbish - it enshrines the ECJ as final arbiter in the uk for millions of UK residents.

    "IV. Enforcement and dispute settlement rules
    (1) The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the
    European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection
    of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement. "

    Residency rights dependent on a non-democratic unaccountable foreign body with an interest in damaging the host country... And you think it bound to work in the peoples' interest.

    The ECJ interprets European law. It will continue to do so. If UK courts incorrectly apply it the ECJ will say so. Residency rights will be the rights the UK and the EU27 agree between them.


    When we are OUT, we are OUT (of the EU law and all its anti democratic works).

    BOO

    That depends on what deal is agreed.

    Nope.

    A50 means OUT.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    Mortimer said:

    Orville is a prize Corbynite tool, isn't he?

    He most certainly is! He shall be forever more known as Orville the duck.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    QT FFS

    Can't watch rest of this.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
    In fairness though, he was right about that one.
    Was he,4 million votes says different.
    No. Four million votes says something, not necessarily different though!
    It says you are a bigot and a sore loser. Not sure it says much else apart from that.
    Why would it say that? UKIP got one MP for their four million and I've argued on here many times that they deserved more.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    Brom said:

    The EU have decided to take back control
    Wow look at the desperation. Clinging on to Faisal Islam tweets because they can't cope with the reality. No doubt you shed a tear when Donald Task was begging us to stay and the British public said "thanks but no thanks". :)
    Not desperation, just vindication.

    The grief I got when I said Leavers were like the man who divorces his wife & still expects dinner & a blowjob from her every night after the divorce
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Did anyone seriously expect us to keep EU "stuff" in this country post Brexit ?

    Really ?!

    Of course not, but some prize idiots believed, or pretended to believe, that the UK should somehow be liable for the moving costs if and when the EU decided of its own volition to move the EMA and Banking Authority out of the UK.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    edited June 2017
    Watching QT, Gina Miller was speaking sense, adjusted the contrast on the telly and she suddenly seemed to sound really stupid!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,879
    shiney2 said:

    shiney2 said:

    shiney2 said:

    FPT

    I think Theresa May has grabbed the initiative on the EU citizens and caught the EU on the hop

    Why couldn't she be bold and make it a unilateral offer
    For the same reason that has applied for the last year: a UK PM cannot hang out to dry British citizens living in the EU27.

    That's exactly what she's doing. She is proposing the have fewer rights than they do now.
    And fewer rights than the EU is proposing to offer, assuming May wants her terms to be reciprocal.
    And politically, the EU politically would have to reciprocate anyway.

    The EU offer was tabled on 12th June:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en

    It is far more generous to UK citizens than the May proposal.
    Rubbish - it enshrines the ECJ as final arbiter in the uk for millions of UK residents.

    "IV. Enforcement and dispute settlement rules
    (1) The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the
    European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection
    of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement. "

    Residency rights dependent on a non-democratic unaccountable foreign body with an interest in damaging the host country... And you think it bound to work in the peoples' interest.

    The ECJ interprets European law. It will continue to do so. If UK courts incorrectly apply it the ECJ will say so. Residency rights will be the rights the UK and the EU27 agree between them.


    When we are OUT, we are OUT (of the EU law and all its anti democratic works).

    BOO

    That depends on what deal is agreed.

    Nope.

    A50 means OUT.

    Depends how you define OUT, of course.

  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
    In fairness though, he was right about that one.
    Was he,4 million votes says different.
    No. Four million votes says something, not necessarily different though!
    Idiot.
    charming.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2017
    I wouldn't like to be stuck in a lift with Gina Miller when she's in a bad mood. (Only joking disclaimer).
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    One upside of this election: Shy Toryism is going to return. The self righteous indignation of the loud left has returned!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Bbcqt needs to end.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    Mortimer said:

    One upside of this election: Shy Toryism is going to return. The self righteous indignation of the loud left has returned!

    Have you forgotten the mid-90s? You could be in for years of this in which the Tories continue to decline.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Never seen David Liddington before. Seems sane.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
    Wait, the EU have a good reputation in this country?
    The metropolitan elite TV news media,oh yes,the EU can't do no wrong.
    Oh grow up.

    I can tell you're upset that Mrs May is deporting all those EU citizens you don't like.
    Yep ,i bet I am in a majority if we put it to a vote in the country.

    That will do me pal.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Jonathan said:

    Bbcqt needs to end.

    Full stop. Never to return.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    welshowl said:

    Never seen David Liddington before. Seems sane.

    He was Europe minister under Cameron. He is capable; I'd never quite seen it before tonight, but he dealt with that shouty fool really well.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    edited June 2017
    Hurrah. They boot him out!

    Audience united under British manners!
  • Sir_GeoffSir_Geoff Posts: 41
    Lidington does come over as the only rational person on the panel. Really well handled.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    There it is. Chucked out ( in effect ).
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    OchEye said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    I'm trying to remember what Cameron's majority was back in 2010, can somebody remind me?
    Is all about the net seat gains.

    From 198 seats to 306 seats.

    Biggest Tory seat increase since 1931 IIRC
    Um! So what was his majority when he won the 2010 General Election? Please tell me, I'm getting so excited at the prospect.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Take his coat !
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Who got booted?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Christ, even Gina Miller said something I agree with.

    Lies down in dark room to recover.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    Mortimer said:

    One upside of this election: Shy Toryism is going to return. The self righteous indignation of the loud left has returned!

    In fairness I recall you predicting that for several months. The reverse has been true.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    No one has helped the leave campaign more than Gina Miller. Her shady backers and disregard for democracy are there for all to see. I would have her on QT every week if I could.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921

    Who got booted?

    Shouty Corbynite fool in the audience.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    welshowl said:

    Never seen David Liddington before. Seems sane.

    Praise indeed!
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672

    shiney2 said:

    shiney2 said:

    shiney2 said:

    FPT

    I think Theresa May has grabbed the initiative on the EU citizens and caught the EU on the hop

    Why couldn't she be bold and make it a unilateral offer
    For the same reason that has applied for the last year: a UK PM cannot hang out to dry British citizens living in the EU27.

    That's exactly what she's doing. She is proposing the have fewer rights than they do now.
    And fewer rights than the EU is proposing to offer, assuming May wants her terms to be reciprocal.
    And politically, the EU politically would have to reciprocate anyway.

    The EU offer was tabled on 12th June:

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en

    It is far more generous to UK citizens than the May proposal.
    Rubbish - it enshrines the ECJ as final arbiter in the uk for millions of UK residents.

    "IV. Enforcement and dispute settlement rules
    (1) The Commission should have full powers for the monitoring and the Court of Justice of the
    European Union should have full jurisdiction corresponding to the duration of the protection
    of citizen's rights in the Withdrawal agreement. "

    Residency rights dependent on a non-democratic unaccountable foreign body with an interest in damaging the host country... And you think it bound to work in the peoples' interest.

    The ECJ interprets European law. It will continue to do so. If UK courts incorrectly apply it the ECJ will say so. Residency rights will be the rights the UK and the EU27 agree between them.


    When we are OUT, we are OUT (of the EU law and all its anti democratic works).

    BOO

    That depends on what deal is agreed.

    Nope.

    A50 means OUT.

    Depends how you define OUT, of course.

    Wrong again.

    A50 is OUT.

    It's now the default.

    Unless they make it worth ( think Golden Elephants) our while AND we can speak with one voice.

    Neither are likely, or indeed desirable if democracy is the overriding objective.

    BOO
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    The lefties seem to be crying over QT tonight.

    Might actually be worth watching for the first time in years...
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
    In fairness though, he was right about that one.
    Was he,4 million votes says different.
    No. Four million votes says something, not necessarily different though!
    It says you are a bigot and a sore loser. Not sure it says much else apart from that.
    Why would it say that? UKIP got one MP for their four million and I've argued on here many times that they deserved more.
    You changed subject - lol
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    The tolerant left there. Cheers Jezza!
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
    Wait, the EU have a good reputation in this country?
    The metropolitan elite TV news media,oh yes,the EU can't do no wrong.
    Oh grow up.

    I can tell you're upset that Mrs May is deporting all those EU citizens you don't like.
    Yep ,i bet I am in a majority if we put it to a vote in the country.

    That will do me pal.
    I'd hope that you'd be in a minority, and rightly so. I'd say 40% of my son's schoolmates are affected.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    Mortimer said:

    Who got booted?

    Shouty Corbynite fool in the audience.
    Will be on the panel in a fortnight
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Isn't it a given at the moment that some member of the cult has a full on wibble?
  • Sir_GeoffSir_Geoff Posts: 41

    Mortimer said:

    Who got booted?

    Shouty Corbynite fool in the audience.
    Will be on the panel in a fortnight
    Shadow Cabinet more likely.
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    GIN1138 said:


    Cameron was forever shooting his mouth off and putting his foot in it.


    HMQ "purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring down the phone" anyone? ;)
    Never stopped him making nets gains at a general election.
    One of his biggest gaffe's was his "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" put off millions of working class voters from the posh boy.
    In fairness though, he was right about that one.
    Was he,4 million votes says different.
    No. Four million votes says something, not necessarily different though!
    It says you are a bigot and a sore loser. Not sure it says much else apart from that.
    Why would it say that? UKIP got one MP for their four million and I've argued on here many times that they deserved more.
    You changed subject - lol
    Eh? I've not changed the subject at all. What on earth are you on about?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross,_Skye_and_Lochaber_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

    2015: 17,593 Tories + Lib Dems;
    2017: 17,603 Tories + Lib Dems; ........
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
    Wait, the EU have a good reputation in this country?
    The metropolitan elite TV news media,oh yes,the EU can't do no wrong.
    Oh grow up.

    I can tell you're upset that Mrs May is deporting all those EU citizens you don't like.
    Yep ,i bet I am in a majority if we put it to a vote in the country.

    That will do me pal.
    I'd hope that you'd be in a minority, and rightly so. I'd say 40% of my son's schoolmates are affected.
    So are these kids parents poor unskilled unemployed then ?
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    welshowl said:

    There it is. Chucked out ( in effect ).

    Hardly unique?
  • Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    The EU have decided to take back control
    The EU image of been the good guys might soon take a knocking.
    Wait, the EU have a good reputation in this country?
    The metropolitan elite TV news media,oh yes,the EU can't do no wrong.
    Oh grow up.

    I can tell you're upset that Mrs May is deporting all those EU citizens you don't like.
    Yep ,i bet I am in a majority if we put it to a vote in the country.

    That will do me pal.
    I'd hope that you'd be in a minority, and rightly so. I'd say 40% of my son's schoolmates are affected.
    So are these kids parents poor unskilled unemployed then ?
    No. Hard workers. Why don't you look up the EU citizen employment rate vs Brit employment rate before you embarrass yourself?
This discussion has been closed.