Did no one watch Andrew Neil's interview with Tim Farron?
Forgot it was on
To be honest Neil achieved what he wanted to deny a complete answer a single question. Unfortunately farron was unable to give sharp, concise answers which played to neils attack. I don't understand why farron did not answer about campaigning to remain in the EU at any decision referendum was not "if it's a good deal we will back it" lets move on.
Liam Gallagher was just on ch4 and he said he was voting Labour as he came from a Labour family. Seems Corbyn is quite popular with the high end of the entertainment industry. I was surprised Gallagher said he watched PMQs when it is on TV.
The real exit poll is done by Ipsos MORI and GfK NOP, face to face, at polling stations across the country.
I suspect YouGov will do an on the day, how people voted poll.
It was sh** last time, let's be honest. It gave the LD false hope...
and UKIP
13% and no seats... painful for the pocket
A repeat will be even more expensive!
Swings and roundabouts with the EU referendum a year later.
Yes all was well in the end. I quite flukily won a load of money on the referendum as my bets went so far underwater it wasn't worth cashing out for a loss... then they won!
Did you see the Farage and Rachel Johnson lunch date? He more or less said he never wanted to be an MP anyway but had to stand.. I guess people will say that's just because he lost, but I don't think he would be a good MP anyway, he just wanted to Leave the EU
He tried often enough!
I think his point was he had to stand to get UKIP publicity, but didn't really want to be an MP. He obviously doesn't want to now
Given the cheap booze, I would be staggered if he didn't want to be an MP.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
So we're looking at either a Conservative landslide, a very confused Conservative campaign or a non-UNS election. Or a combination of those three.
I reckon we'll get some fun, Tories missing target seats in the 20-30 range, but winning seats way down the target seats, maybe target seats in the 80s.
Indeed.
It looks like Conservative MPs are going to be proportionally more midlands, northern and Scottish but proportionally less London and other urban than before.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
So we're looking at either a Conservative landslide, a very confused Conservative campaign or a non-UNS election. Or a combination of those three.
I reckon we'll get some fun, Tories missing target seats in the 20-30 range, but winning seats way down the target seats, maybe target seats in the 80s.
Indeed.
It looks like Conservative MPs are going to be proportionally more midlands, northern and Scottish but proportionally less London and other urban than before.
Liam Gallagher was just on ch4 and he said he was voting Labour as he came from a Labour family. Seems Corbyn is quite popular with the high end of the entertainment industry. I was surprised Gallagher said he watched PMQs when it is on TV.
Was it Liam or his vastly more intelligent brother?
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
Faisal Islam @faisalislam PM says the big risk in election is her losing 6 seats. Though she is talking from Margaret Beckett's Derby S seat with 9k Lab majority
Derbyshire.
Bolsover. NE Derbyshire Derby South.
All in Derbyshire. All being visited by cabinet ministers.
Clearly, Lynton thinks there is mileage in Derbyshire.
Not sure why, as Labour did fine in Bolsover even in the locals, but clearly someone thinks so.
So we're looking at either a Conservative landslide, a very confused Conservative campaign or a non-UNS election. Or a combination of those three.
I reckon we'll get some fun, Tories missing target seats in the 20-30 range, but winning seats way down the target seats, maybe target seats in the 80s.
Indeed.
It looks like Conservative MPs are going to be proportionally more midlands, northern and Scottish but proportionally less London and other urban than before.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
And the £10bn middle class student loan bung.
I'm now convinced that has probably saved Labour 40 seats.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
And the £10bn middle class student loan bung.
I'm now convinced that has probably saved Labour 40 seats.
And they accuse the Tories of buying elections. Shameless!
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Ok, but Farron and Corbyn meet ordinary people rather than a few party members like Mrs May.
Apologies if this got done to death on the last thread (they're pretty long to catch up on at the minute) but the Woman's Hour no-show is an interesting development of the narrative
Not because it's necessarily a fair accusation (the BBC are being quite conciliatory, one might almost say cowed) but the fact that the Telegraph are now seeing "Chicken Theresa" as a fair narrative to run with. With friends like that...
Actually I'm surprised that May didn't accept the invitation - it's one direct comparator where Corbyn has set the bar particularly low.
One question she can't answer and Theresa May is headline news, just like Corbyn was. Since the Conservative manifesto is uncosted, almost any question could do it. That's why she's frit.
Is anyone starting to think that this might be the second election in a row at which Labour's share goes up but they lose seats?
Good point - increased vote share looks pretty likely now, even if they fall back from the highs, but the Tories could still end up as far ahead or more, and most models and polls predicting them gaining seats, so Lab going down, if only by 10-30, also seems likely.
Yes, I was thinking if most of the Labour vote share increase is concentrated in London, Brighton, Merseyside, Greater Manchester, Bristol, etc. but at the same time there's a small swing to the Tories elsewhere, Labour will probably lose seats while increasing share.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam PM says the big risk in election is her losing 6 seats. Though she is talking from Margaret Beckett's Derby S seat with 9k Lab majority
Derbyshire.
Bolsover. NE Derbyshire Derby South.
All in Derbyshire. All being visited by cabinet ministers.
Clearly, Lynton thinks there is mileage in Derbyshire.
Not sure why, as Labour did fine in Bolsover even in the locals, but clearly someone thinks so.
There really shouldn't be much mileage at all in Derbyshire:
NED should be an easy Conservative gain if Pulps and BJO are right Bolsover is 400 MPs territory Derby South is safe Labour
Compare with Nottinghamshire which has Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Gedling, Mansfield and Nottingham S - all of which should be close according to Betfair. Though IMO all will be harder for the Conservatives than they look at first glance.
Apologies if this got done to death on the last thread (they're pretty long to catch up on at the minute) but the Woman's Hour no-show is an interesting development of the narrative
Not because it's necessarily a fair accusation (the BBC are being quite conciliatory, one might almost say cowed) but the fact that the Telegraph are now seeing "Chicken Theresa" as a fair narrative to run with. With friends like that...
Actually I'm surprised that May didn't accept the invitation - it's one direct comparator where Corbyn has set the bar particularly low.
One question she can't answer and Theresa May is headline news, just like Corbyn was. Since the Conservative manifesto is uncosted, almost any question could do it. That's why she's frit.
@Christopher Hope Tories told BBC three weeks ago that Theresa May would not appear on Woman's Hour. Amber Rudd was offered. Justine Greening is replacing her
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
I think Corbyn > Miliband possibly. (In the campaign) And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron Cameron >>>>> May Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam PM says the big risk in election is her losing 6 seats. Though she is talking from Margaret Beckett's Derby S seat with 9k Lab majority
Derbyshire.
Bolsover. NE Derbyshire Derby South.
All in Derbyshire. All being visited by cabinet ministers.
Clearly, Lynton thinks there is mileage in Derbyshire.
Not sure why, as Labour did fine in Bolsover even in the locals, but clearly someone thinks so.
There really shouldn't be much mileage at all in Derbyshire:
NED should be an easy Conservative gain if Pulps and BJO are right Bolsover is 400 MPs territory Derby South is safe Labour
Compare with Nottinghamshire which has Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Gedling, Mansfield and Nottingham S - all of which should be close according to Betfair. Though IMO all will be harder for the Conservatives than they look at first glance.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
I guess because of that normal democratic inconvenience: you have to win power to be able to do good. And as any attempt to redress problems of poverty will be seized upon across the popular press as stealing money from struggling nice people, people like our readers, for the benefit of the undeserving poor, it's electoral suicide.
Also, policies around nationalisation, tuition fees and social care would be seen as part of the solution from a Labour perspective: they're about building a society in which more of the risk of misfortune is managed collectively, which is a bigger vision than simply shovelling some cash from the richest to the poorest as a sticking plaster for poverty.
Apologies if this got done to death on the last thread (they're pretty long to catch up on at the minute) but the Woman's Hour no-show is an interesting development of the narrative
Not because it's necessarily a fair accusation (the BBC are being quite conciliatory, one might almost say cowed) but the fact that the Telegraph are now seeing "Chicken Theresa" as a fair narrative to run with. With friends like that...
Actually I'm surprised that May didn't accept the invitation - it's one direct comparator where Corbyn has set the bar particularly low.
One question she can't answer and Theresa May is headline news, just like Corbyn was. Since the Conservative manifesto is uncosted, almost any question could do it. That's why she's frit.
@Christopher Hope Tories told BBC three weeks ago that Theresa May would not appear on Woman's Hour. Amber Rudd was offered. Justine Greening is replacing her
Woman's hour said this morning that AR had pulled out due to her father's death and JG would be standing in.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
I hope the Guardian and leftwingers condemn Corbyn in equal measure when his pacifist and anti-western ideology leads to his Government failing to take action to prevent a major terrorist attack, or worse, actively undermining the security services, leads to the horrific deaths of dozens.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
But Corbyn's still a c*nt.
Corbyn will wreck our economy, lose people their homes and jobs, and very probably get people killed.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
People had better pray there is a landslide for the simple reason that Westminster needs some fresh talent.
Apologies if this got done to death on the last thread (they're pretty long to catch up on at the minute) but the Woman's Hour no-show is an interesting development of the narrative
Not because it's necessarily a fair accusation (the BBC are being quite conciliatory, one might almost say cowed) but the fact that the Telegraph are now seeing "Chicken Theresa" as a fair narrative to run with. With friends like that...
Actually I'm surprised that May didn't accept the invitation - it's one direct comparator where Corbyn has set the bar particularly low.
One question she can't answer and Theresa May is headline news, just like Corbyn was. Since the Conservative manifesto is uncosted, almost any question could do it. That's why she's frit.
@Christopher Hope Tories told BBC three weeks ago that Theresa May would not appear on Woman's Hour. Amber Rudd was offered. Justine Greening is replacing her
3rd string, good job there are less days left than Cabinet Ministers or Theresa would be sending her husband by the end
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
But Corbyn's still a c*nt.
Corbyn will wreck our economy, lose people their homes and jobs, and very probably get people killed.
Apologies if this got done to death on the last thread (they're pretty long to catch up on at the minute) but the Woman's Hour no-show is an interesting development of the narrative
Not because it's necessarily a fair accusation (the BBC are being quite conciliatory, one might almost say cowed) but the fact that the Telegraph are now seeing "Chicken Theresa" as a fair narrative to run with. With friends like that...
Actually I'm surprised that May didn't accept the invitation - it's one direct comparator where Corbyn has set the bar particularly low.
One question she can't answer and Theresa May is headline news, just like Corbyn was. Since the Conservative manifesto is uncosted, almost any question could do it. That's why she's frit.
@Christopher Hope Tories told BBC three weeks ago that Theresa May would not appear on Woman's Hour. Amber Rudd was offered. Justine Greening is replacing her
Yes, that's what I meant about it not necessarily being fair - the BBC were happy to support a face-saving Tory line shortly after Eddie Mair repeated the story on air - but the Telegraph were happy to start the story running. That would have been unthinkable a couple of weeks back.
So we're looking at either a Conservative landslide, a very confused Conservative campaign or a non-UNS election. Or a combination of those three.
I reckon we'll get some fun, Tories missing target seats in the 20-30 range, but winning seats way down the target seats, maybe target seats in the 80s.
Indeed.
It looks like Conservative MPs are going to be proportionally more midlands, northern and Scottish but proportionally less London and other urban than before.
By 1am Battersea should have declared.
That might be our Nuneaton.
Battersea might not be representative this time.
All over Battersea, some hope and some despair?
I can't see Labour winning Battersea. Their candidate is a very average, buggins-turn Lambeth councillor. Plus the Tory was a Remainer.
Think of all the extra lives that will be lost when Corbyn and McDonnell's failure to live in economic reality leads to extra tax revenue being pitiful, but spending ballooning the deficit to over £100bn, leading to a deterioration of our credit rating, increase in our debt interest, and, ultimately, the debtors calling in it and very sharp and nasty cuts being required.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
And the £10bn middle class student loan bung.
I'm now convinced that has probably saved Labour 40 seats.
Another George Osborne disaster coming home to roost.
Some of us did warn that it would damage the Cons and Libs among students in election after election.
At the next election Labour will promise to write off all student fees debts.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
I think Corbyn > Miliband possibly. (In the campaign) And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron Cameron >>>>> May Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
For sure
Corbyn is only looking good because 1. he's facing a hapless Tory campaign, and 2. expectation were SO low he could only out-perform.
As a leader and a candidate for PM he is much, much worse than Miliband.
I suspect Ed Miliband would win this election at a canter.
This election is reminding me just how much I hate the Labour Party.
I'm not even thinking about May's poor performance anymore.
Liam Gallagher was just on ch4 and he said he was voting Labour as he came from a Labour family. Seems Corbyn is quite popular with the high end of the entertainment industry. I was surprised Gallagher said he watched PMQs when it is on TV.
Was it Liam or his vastly more intelligent brother?
Liam, he seemed more chilled out than he has done in the past. Jon Snow conducted the interview. I think Noel as you say is the one with a higher IQ, I think he wrote most of the songs as well where as Liam is more focused on being an artist!
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
I think Corbyn > Miliband possibly. (In the campaign) And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron Cameron >>>>> May Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
For sure
Corbyn is only looking good because 1. he's facing a hapless Tory campaign, and 2. expectation were SO low he could only out-perform.
As a leader and a candidate for PM he is much, much worse than Miliband.
I suspect Ed Miliband would win this election at a canter.
Yep - I'd strongly consider voting for Red Ed over May.
Wonder if all Labour canvassers are going round like that, will get people crossing the Tory x for sure.
I once went on a stag-do in Bristol West, along the "Greenest" road in the City.
Boy oh boy that was an uncomfortable experience for a sound Tory like me. Although, my flirting (experimental) with a couple of dreadlocked hippie 20-something girls hawking new-age shite outside their home, with reggae and spliffs, went down rather well.
Labour supporters had steeled themselves for a big loss, now this is happening. When the Tories win comfortably next week it's going to hit a lot of them very hard. Hopefully, there will be no quick response this time. A period of reflection will be needed. The party seems to be more united than it has been for a long time. It will take titanic willpower and uncommon good sense to sustain that after a mind-sapping, hideously demoralising defeat.
Even if Labour lose, I can't see any way in which Mr Corbyn's position would come under threat. The evidence of the polls is that the more people see of him, the more they like him. Another week or two could have made all the difference.
Even if Labour win, I can't see how the inevitable resurgence of the party would last more than 5 years. Why would Mr Corbyn kick his close supporters such as Ms Abbott in the teeth & appoint someone else (in her case, as Home Secretary)?
Whatever their policies, they just haven't got anyone of very much talent, except perhaps Mr McDonnell. And what are all those principled non-supporters in the PLP going to do with their principles?
It looks to me as though the higher Labour fly in this GE, the worse will be the crash when reality bites.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
I think Corbyn > Miliband possibly. (In the campaign) And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron Cameron >>>>> May Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
For sure
Corbyn is only looking good because 1. he's facing a hapless Tory campaign, and 2. expectation were SO low he could only out-perform.
As a leader and a candidate for PM he is much, much worse than Miliband.
I suspect Ed Miliband would win this election at a canter.
EdM was unlucky in that swing voters didn't fear him but they did fear him being controlled by Salmond and Sturgeon.
The SNP didn't only cost Labour 40 seats in Scotland but effectively another 40 seats in England.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
And the £10bn middle class student loan bung.
I'm now convinced that has probably saved Labour 40 seats.
Another George Osborne disaster coming home to roost.
Some of us did warn that it would damage the Cons and Libs among students in election after election.
At the next election Labour will promise to write off all student fees debts.
Which would be ironic given it was Labour introduced tuition fees, extended them (breaking a manifesto commitment along the way, I might add) and set up the Browne review in the first place which has led to the current system.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
I think Corbyn > Miliband possibly. (In the campaign) And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron Cameron >>>>> May Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
For sure
Corbyn is only looking good because 1. he's facing a hapless Tory campaign, and 2. expectation were SO low he could only out-perform.
As a leader and a candidate for PM he is much, much worse than Miliband.
I suspect Ed Miliband would win this election at a canter.
Still some hope for Ed M mark 2? It would require Corbyn to do worse than now looks likely, but Ed M was a decent sort really, I was very relaxed thinking he would win.
Which would be ironic given it was Labour introduced tuition fees, extended them (breaking a manifesto commitment along the way, I might add) and set up the Browne review in the first place which has led to the current system.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
People had better pray there is a landslide for the simple reason that Westminster needs some fresh talent.
Landslides don't bring in new talent they bring in people who didn't expect to win, we're poorly selected. One only has to look at he SNP at the last GE or UKIP in the euro elections to see what happens. Their might be some gems but they will be few and far between. Many of the Tory west country winners last time are poor as local MPs but useful cannon fodder to their party
Faisal Islam @faisalislam PM says the big risk in election is her losing 6 seats. Though she is talking from Margaret Beckett's Derby S seat with 9k Lab majority
Derbyshire.
Bolsover. NE Derbyshire Derby South.
All in Derbyshire. All being visited by cabinet ministers.
Clearly, Lynton thinks there is mileage in Derbyshire.
Not sure why, as Labour did fine in Bolsover even in the locals, but clearly someone thinks so.
There really shouldn't be much mileage at all in Derbyshire:
NED should be an easy Conservative gain if Pulps and BJO are right Bolsover is 400 MPs territory Derby South is safe Labour
Compare with Nottinghamshire which has Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Gedling, Mansfield and Nottingham S - all of which should be close according to Betfair. Though IMO all will be harder for the Conservatives than they look at first glance.
According to Yougov's model Tories will have a tough time holding on to High Peak!
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
I think Corbyn > Miliband possibly. (In the campaign) And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron Cameron >>>>> May Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
For sure
Corbyn is only looking good because 1. he's facing a hapless Tory campaign, and 2. expectation were SO low he could only out-perform.
As a leader and a candidate for PM he is much, much worse than Miliband.
I suspect Ed Miliband would win this election at a canter.
Still some hope for Ed M mark 2? It would require Corbyn to do worse than now looks likely, but Ed M was a decent sort really, I was very relaxed thinking he would win.
Ed Miliband for next Labour leader is a sentiment I can get behind.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
But Corbyn's still a c*nt.
Corbyn will wreck our economy, lose people their homes and jobs, and very probably get people killed.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
I think Corbyn > Miliband possibly. (In the campaign) And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron Cameron >>>>> May Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
For sure
Corbyn is only looking good because 1. he's facing a hapless Tory campaign, and 2. expectation were SO low he could only out-perform.
As a leader and a candidate for PM he is much, much worse than Miliband.
I suspect Ed Miliband would win this election at a canter.
Still some hope for Ed M mark 2? It would require Corbyn to do worse than now looks likely, but Ed M was a decent sort really, I was very relaxed thinking he would win.
Ed Miliband for next Labour leader is a sentiment I can get behind.
I wonder why (whatever the symbol for an 'innocent face' emoji is imagine it here)
Think of all the extra lives that will be lost when Corbyn and McDonnell's failure to live in economic reality leads to extra tax revenue being pitiful, but spending ballooning the deficit to over £100bn, leading to a deterioration of our credit rating, increase in our debt interest, and, ultimately, the debtors calling in it and very sharp and nasty cuts being required.
Tories have added £700bn to the national debt in 7 years. Something about glass houses comes to mind.
Think of all the extra lives that will be lost when Corbyn and McDonnell's failure to live in economic reality leads to extra tax revenue being pitiful, but spending ballooning the deficit to over £100bn, leading to a deterioration of our credit rating, increase in our debt interest, and, ultimately, the debtors calling in it and very sharp and nasty cuts being required.
They could just print the money for the nationalisation, after all in a globalised world most of it will just leak out of the UK economy and have little affect.
I do agree it is not an appetising prospect that Labour propose as those targeted for higher taxes will do anything to avoid having to pay more. They would not be rational people if they did not try to mitigate the amount of tax they pay. This is why I am voting Conservative, Corbyn and McDonnell would remove the incentive for high achievers to produce wealth. Better to have a percentage of something than nothing at all. Mind you I thought that about staying in the EU and the majority didn't agree with me!
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
I think Corbyn > Miliband possibly. (In the campaign) And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron Cameron >>>>> May Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
For sure
Corbyn is only looking good because 1. he's facing a hapless Tory campaign, and 2. expectation were SO low he could only out-perform.
As a leader and a candidate for PM he is much, much worse than Miliband.
I suspect Ed Miliband would win this election at a canter.
EdM was unlucky in that swing voters didn't fear him but they did fear him being controlled by Salmond and Sturgeon.
The SNP didn't only cost Labour 40 seats in Scotland but effectively another 40 seats in England.
In a roundabout way, the Scottish Tory surge might actually be doing Labour UK-wide a favour this time!!
Sturgeon has been notably cagey on talking about alliances with Labour this time -- in the Andrew Neil interview, she even declined to say she would prefer Corbyn to be PM rather than May. I suspect that's because she's worried that some of the SNP-Con floaters in the North East of Scotland would be scared rigid of the idea of a vote for the SNP being used to prop up a Corbyn government. But of course, the lack of Sturgeon talking up the idea constantly is also stopping the Labour/SNP Coalition thing getting off the ground in the British media this time.
Think of all the extra lives that will be lost when Corbyn and McDonnell's failure to live in economic reality leads to extra tax revenue being pitiful, but spending ballooning the deficit to over £100bn, leading to a deterioration of our credit rating, increase in our debt interest, and, ultimately, the debtors calling in it and very sharp and nasty cuts being required.
Tories have added £700bn to the national debt in 7 years. Something about glass houses comes to mind.
Because cutting the huge deficit left by Labour in one go was simply not possible.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
People had better pray there is a landslide for the simple reason that Westminster needs some fresh talent.
Landslides don't bring in new talent they bring in people who didn't expect to win, we're poorly selected.
I wonder how that could be truly assessed, although it certainly feels correct. Although I suppose many good future MPs get tested out in no hoper constituencies when younger, before getting a shot in a more helpful seat, and some of those would get elected sooner than expected.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
I think Corbyn > Miliband possibly. (In the campaign) And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron Cameron >>>>> May Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
For sure
Corbyn is only looking good because 1. he's facing a hapless Tory campaign, and 2. expectation were SO low he could only out-perform.
As a leader and a candidate for PM he is much, much worse than Miliband.
I suspect Ed Miliband would win this election at a canter.
Still some hope for Ed M mark 2? It would require Corbyn to do worse than now looks likely, but Ed M was a decent sort really, I was very relaxed thinking he would win.
Ed Miliband for next Labour leader is a sentiment I can get behind.
I wonder why (whatever the symbol for an 'innocent face' emoji is imagine it here)
In an ecumenical spirit, I also endorse the idea that Theresa May should stand aside for Philip Hammond.
Think of all the extra lives that will be lost when Corbyn and McDonnell's failure to live in economic reality leads to extra tax revenue being pitiful, but spending ballooning the deficit to over £100bn, leading to a deterioration of our credit rating, increase in our debt interest, and, ultimately, the debtors calling in it and very sharp and nasty cuts being required.
It's clearly a risk, but it doesn't obviously seem to be a larger risk than May's willingness to leave the EU without any form of trade agreement and to prioritise closed borders over tariff-free movement of goods and economically beneficial immigration. Think of all the extra lives that will be lost when this failure to live in globalised economic reality leads to a shrinking economy, huge falls in tax revenue (and so on)
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
But Corbyn's still a c*nt.
Corbyn will wreck our economy, lose people their homes and jobs, and very probably get people killed.
On the other hand he has the better approach to Brexit, which might lose fewer people their homes and jobs than Theresa May. Killing people seems hyperbolic. As the leader of a party that largely doesn't share his economic objectives he would *probably* be constrained. (I accept this is a probably).
I wouldn't have believed a month ago that Corbyn might be a more plausible candidate than May.
Corbyn is a better communicator and has far more gravitas than EdM .
That is true. Nevertheless, I preferred Ed's ideas - TMay liked some of them too, evidently, since she copied them - and he lacks baggage and had fewer foolish or dangerous key allies.
Neat bit of Labour campaigning outside Basingstoke railway station earlier: they were handing out leaflets - red on one side, blue on the other - made to look like big train tickets. On the red side was the Labour pledge to nationalize the railways; on the blue side the fare hikes under the Tories. I was expecting a Footite shambles from Labour throughout, but this was punchy and professional.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
I certainly agree on asking the first part of your question. In their new, hardheaded, politicking guise, perhaps Labour have decided it's not a great vote getting policy?
Think of all the extra lives that will be lost when Corbyn and McDonnell's failure to live in economic reality leads to extra tax revenue being pitiful, but spending ballooning the deficit to over £100bn, leading to a deterioration of our credit rating, increase in our debt interest, and, ultimately, the debtors calling in it and very sharp and nasty cuts being required.
Tories have added £700bn to the national debt in 7 years. Something about glass houses comes to mind.
Because cutting the huge deficit left by Labour in one go was simply not possible.
Shouldn't have promised it then.
That said, I still don't think that is a fertile line for Labour - they can argue the Tories cut the wrong things perhaps, or how they did it, but they also didn't want to eliminate the deficit in 5 years, so there would have been loads of debt added.
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
And the £10bn middle class student loan bung.
I'm now convinced that has probably saved Labour 40 seats.
Another George Osborne disaster coming home to roost.
Some of us did warn that it would damage the Cons and Libs among students in election after election.
At the next election Labour will promise to write off all student fees debts.
Which would be ironic given it was Labour introduced tuition fees, extended them (breaking a manifesto commitment along the way, I might add) and set up the Browne review in the first place which has led to the current system.
And the Conservatives opposed the introduction of tuition fees which IIRC needed SLAB votes to get it through the HoC.
Why the hell did Cameron and Osborne decide to permanently crap on the under 25s instead of reducing higher education back to its 1990 level and concentrating on improving technical education and training ?
Think of all the extra lives that will be lost when Corbyn and McDonnell's failure to live in economic reality leads to extra tax revenue being pitiful, but spending ballooning the deficit to over £100bn, leading to a deterioration of our credit rating, increase in our debt interest, and, ultimately, the debtors calling in it and very sharp and nasty cuts being required.
Tories have added £700bn to the national debt in 7 years. Something about glass houses comes to mind.
Because cutting the huge deficit left by Labour in one go was simply not possible.
Shouldn't have promised it then.
That said, I still don't think that is a fertile line for Labour - they can argue the Tories cut the wrong things perhaps, or how they did it, but they also didn't want to eliminate the deficit in 5 years, so there would have been loads of debt added.
You just can't win. Either the austerity is too bad, or the deficit is too high.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
Remarkably, Clegg > Farron, Miliband > Corbyn, Salmond > Sturgeon, Cameron > May, and Farage > Nuttall.
Has this ever been the case before at an election? Where all the major parties have a leader worse than the one previous? (Apart from, maybe, the Greens...)
People had better pray there is a landslide for the simple reason that Westminster needs some fresh talent.
Landslides don't bring in new talent they bring in people who didn't expect to win, we're poorly selected.
I wonder how that could be truly assessed, although it certainly feels correct. Although I suppose many good future MPs get tested out in no hoper constituencies when younger, before getting a shot in a more helpful seat, and some of those would get elected sooner than expected.
Unfortunately, particularly at local GOVERMENT level. You feel obliged to fill the slate, not expecting to win. When you do it can be a nightmare. Now con won't win bootle and they may have a good candidate but it's quite possiblle some arm twisting went on. How much down the target list does it become easier to be selected?
Think of all the extra lives that will be lost when Corbyn and McDonnell's failure to live in economic reality leads to extra tax revenue being pitiful, but spending ballooning the deficit to over £100bn, leading to a deterioration of our credit rating, increase in our debt interest, and, ultimately, the debtors calling in it and very sharp and nasty cuts being required.
Tories have added £700bn to the national debt in 7 years. Something about glass houses comes to mind.
Where did you want the £700bn of cuts to come from instead?
Corbyn is a better communicator and has far more gravitas than EdM .
That is true. Nevertheless, I preferred Ed's ideas - TMay liked some of them too, evidently, since she copied them - and he lacks baggage and had fewer foolish or dangerous key allies.
Corbyn would never have been mad enough to do the EdStone. I still shudder. His ego was out of control. Who says the ideas were Milliband's anyway.
So, if you're Labour what do you do? Some people are about to think for the first time 'maybe'. How do they handle that? In the past, Labour has not handled that moment well. How would you play it?
1. Hope. You want better for you and yours than you have now? As the 6th richest economy we don't have to cut everything and everything. We can't afford NOT to invest in our children 2. Decency. This is Britain. My grandfather didn't fight to secure our freedom in order to have veteran soldiers starved to death, the disabled left to lie in their own filth and children going to school hungry because their working parents can't afford food. We are better than this. What the Tories are doing to people is wrong at a very basic moral level, your neighbour is your friend not your enemy if we all pull together
Having spoken to so may people in this campaign my gut feel as to the mad swing is this. The Tory manifesto broke the TINA narrative. People have said "that isn't right" and are willing to vote accordingly. Because whatever your views on the economy these are human beings and our friends family and neighbours being treated by the Tories like scum. And the Tories excuses for working people reliant on foodbanks just doesn't wash any more.
People voted Brexit because they want a better future. Only one party offering details about what that means to them.
Have veteran soldiers starved to death? Awful if true and if down to government inaction or malice.
But has it actually happened? And this is a genuine question BTW.
'David Clapson’s awful death was the result of grotesque government policies'
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
I certainly agree on asking the first part of your question. In their new, hardheaded, politicking guise, perhaps Labour have decided it's not a great vote getting policy?
They do seem to have chosen bits with care. They draw attention at one point to the vast cuts to youth services and youth centres that has happened in many areas, which I agree with, but all they promise is to stop the cuts, not to reverse the cuts.
Neat bit of Labour campaigning outside Basingstoke railway station earlier: they were handing out leaflets - red on one side, blue on the other - made to look like big train tickets. On the red side was the Labour pledge to nationalize the railways; on the blue side the fare hikes under the Tories. I was expecting a Footite shambles from Labour throughout, but this was punchy and professional.
'This is a nationalised British Rail announcement - the next strike arriving will be on platform four, followed by all other platforms and continuing until a 25% pay rise arrives.'
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
If you're not even in the league that Clegg's in that says it all.
Corbyn is a better communicator and has far more gravitas than EdM .
That is true. Nevertheless, I preferred Ed's ideas - TMay liked some of them too, evidently, since she copied them - and he lacks baggage and had fewer foolish or dangerous key allies.
Corbyn would never have been mad enough to do the EdStone. I still shudder. His ego was out of control. Who says the ideas were Milliband's anyway.
True story - sensible chap at work today told me in all seriousness that the EdStone was a good idea if it had been better executed.
This is viewed as a dead cert Tory gain and it should be in the Brexit election. But don't laugh, have just been watching a candidates debate on local tv channel Made in Birmingham. Tory candidate not that great, doing his best to play up his brexit credentials (to the scoffing of the UKIP lady) - the area was heavily for Leave. Anyway David Winnick making a decent fist of it and reassuring that he was always strongly for seeing through the referendum decision even though it won on a small majority. Labour 4.2 on Bf to hold this seat on thin money.
Corbyn is a better communicator and has far more gravitas than EdM .
That is true. Nevertheless, I preferred Ed's ideas - TMay liked some of them too, evidently, since she copied them - and he lacks baggage and had fewer foolish or dangerous key allies.
Corbyn would never have been mad enough to do the EdStone. I still shudder. His ego was out of control. Who says the ideas were Milliband's anyway.
True story - sensible chap at work today told me in all seriousness that the EdStone was a good idea if it had been better executed.
Corbyn is a better communicator and has far more gravitas than EdM .
That is true. Nevertheless, I preferred Ed's ideas - TMay liked some of them too, evidently, since she copied them - and he lacks baggage and had fewer foolish or dangerous key allies.
Corbyn would never have been mad enough to do the EdStone. I still shudder. His ego was out of control. Who says the ideas were Milliband's anyway.
True story - sensible chap at work today told me in all seriousness that the EdStone was a good idea if it had been better executed.
Corbyn is a better communicator and has far more gravitas than EdM .
That is true. Nevertheless, I preferred Ed's ideas - TMay liked some of them too, evidently, since she copied them - and he lacks baggage and had fewer foolish or dangerous key allies.
Corbyn would never have been mad enough to do the EdStone. I still shudder. His ego was out of control. Who says the ideas were Milliband's anyway.
True story - sensible chap at work today told me in all seriousness that the EdStone was a good idea if it had been better executed.
Liam Gallagher was just on ch4 and he said he was voting Labour as he came from a Labour family. Seems Corbyn is quite popular with the high end of the entertainment industry.
They'll all be trying to hide they money from HMRC after Jezza has won though...
Corbyn is a better communicator and has far more gravitas than EdM .
That is true. Nevertheless, I preferred Ed's ideas - TMay liked some of them too, evidently, since she copied them - and he lacks baggage and had fewer foolish or dangerous key allies.
Corbyn would never have been mad enough to do the EdStone. I still shudder. His ego was out of control. Who says the ideas were Milliband's anyway.
True story - sensible chap at work today told me in all seriousness that the EdStone was a good idea if it had been better executed.
Stone mason? It was monumentally misguided.
Oh I agree, a terrible, terrible idea. That's why I was so stunned.
Evening all, what do people expect from the revised Ashcroft model tomorrow? I assume it is a similar to the YouGov model in using a variety of demographic and voting history indicators. If it is pointing to a hung parliament too and this is indeed what happens perhaps this is the way forward for election polling if the traditional VI polls continue to point to a Conservative majority?
Neat bit of Labour campaigning outside Basingstoke railway station earlier: they were handing out leaflets - red on one side, blue on the other - made to look like big train tickets. On the red side was the Labour pledge to nationalize the railways; on the blue side the fare hikes under the Tories. I was expecting a Footite shambles from Labour throughout, but this was punchy and professional.
Labour were doing this outside Hastings station this week.
Evening all, what do people expect from the revised Ashcroft model tomorrow? I assume it is a similar to the YouGov model in using a variety of demographic and voting history indicators. If it is pointing to a hung parliament too and this is indeed what happens perhaps this is the way forward for election polling if the traditional VI polls continue to point to a Conservative majority?
I assume it will adjust the Tory majority downwards, but still sizable.
Evening all, what do people expect from the revised Ashcroft model tomorrow? I assume it is a similar to the YouGov model in using a variety of demographic and voting history indicators. If it is pointing to a hung parliament too and this is indeed what happens perhaps this is the way forward for election polling if the traditional VI polls continue to point to a Conservative majority?
For it to go from the current prediction to a hung parliament would be a monumental shift.
I think Farron is hopeless, out of his depth and will likely do worse than Clegg. I have noticed Clegg has been doing more of the interviews recently and he is in a different league to Farron. I know this is fatal for a politician but I actually feel sorry for him as he seems a reasonable person but he just does not cut the mustard.
If you're not even in the league that Clegg's in that says it all.
Tim wont lose as many MPs as Clegg thats an arithmetical certainty
This is viewed as a dead cert Tory gain and it should be in the Brexit election. But don't laugh, have just been watching a candidates debate on local tv channel Made in Birmingham. Tory candidate not that great, doing his best to play up his brexit credentials (to the scoffing of the UKIP lady) - the area was heavily for Leave. Anyway David Winnick making a decent fist of it and reassuring that he was always strongly for seeing through the referendum decision even though it won on a small majority. Labour 4.2 on Bf to hold this seat on thin money.
Hmm. Even the YouGov hung parliament forecast has the Tories (narrowly) gaining this one.
Comments
https://tinyurl.com/hqfbzlv
So why haven't they contacted me after almost a week?!
Why then are Labour not proposing to reverse the benefit cuts and instead wasting money on nationalization or on protecting the inheritances of the well off?
NED should be an easy Conservative gain if Pulps and BJO are right
Bolsover is 400 MPs territory
Derby South is safe Labour
Compare with Nottinghamshire which has Ashfield, Bassetlaw, Gedling, Mansfield and Nottingham S - all of which should be close according to Betfair. Though IMO all will be harder for the Conservatives than they look at first glance.
And Sturgeon ~= Salmond still I think (Was impossible for the SNP to better 2015)
Clegg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Farron
Cameron >>>>> May
Farage >>>>>> Nuttall.
For sure
Also, policies around nationalisation, tuition fees and social care would be seen as part of the solution from a Labour perspective: they're about building a society in which more of the risk of misfortune is managed collectively, which is a bigger vision than simply shovelling some cash from the richest to the poorest as a sticking plaster for poverty.
Some of us did warn that it would damage the Cons and Libs among students in election after election.
At the next election Labour will promise to write off all student fees debts.
I'm not even thinking about May's poor performance anymore.
Boy oh boy that was an uncomfortable experience for a sound Tory like me. Although, my flirting (experimental) with a couple of dreadlocked hippie 20-something girls hawking new-age shite outside their home, with reggae and spliffs, went down rather well.
Why do left-wing girls like Tory men so much?
Even if Labour win, I can't see how the inevitable resurgence of the party would last more than 5 years. Why would Mr Corbyn kick his close supporters such as Ms Abbott in the teeth & appoint someone else (in her case, as Home Secretary)?
Whatever their policies, they just haven't got anyone of very much talent, except perhaps Mr McDonnell. And what are all those principled non-supporters in the PLP going to do with their principles?
It looks to me as though the higher Labour fly in this GE, the worse will be the crash when reality bites.
https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/869843913628168192
The SNP didn't only cost Labour 40 seats in Scotland but effectively another 40 seats in England.
I do agree it is not an appetising prospect that Labour propose as those targeted for higher taxes will do anything to avoid having to pay more. They would not be rational people if they did not try to mitigate the amount of tax they pay. This is why I am voting Conservative, Corbyn and McDonnell would remove the incentive for high achievers to produce wealth. Better to have a percentage of something than nothing at all. Mind you I thought that about staying in the EU and the majority didn't agree with me!
Sturgeon has been notably cagey on talking about alliances with Labour this time -- in the Andrew Neil interview, she even declined to say she would prefer Corbyn to be PM rather than May. I suspect that's because she's worried that some of the SNP-Con floaters in the North East of Scotland would be scared rigid of the idea of a vote for the SNP being used to prop up a Corbyn government. But of course, the lack of Sturgeon talking up the idea constantly is also stopping the Labour/SNP Coalition thing getting off the ground in the British media this time.
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I wouldn't have believed a month ago that Corbyn might be a more plausible candidate than May.
That said, I still don't think that is a fertile line for Labour - they can argue the Tories cut the wrong things perhaps, or how they did it, but they also didn't want to eliminate the deficit in 5 years, so there would have been loads of debt added.
Why the hell did Cameron and Osborne decide to permanently crap on the under 25s instead of reducing higher education back to its 1990 level and concentrating on improving technical education and training ?
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21722855-leaders-both-main-parties-have-turned-away-decades-old-vision-open-liberal
This is viewed as a dead cert Tory gain and it should be in the Brexit election. But don't laugh, have just been watching a candidates debate on local tv channel Made in Birmingham. Tory candidate not that great, doing his best to play up his brexit credentials (to the scoffing of the UKIP lady) - the area was heavily for Leave. Anyway David Winnick making a decent fist of it and reassuring that he was always strongly for seeing through the referendum decision even though it won on a small majority. Labour 4.2 on Bf to hold this seat on thin money.
EICIPM!!!