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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If stepping up the rhetoric on welfare was supposed to boos

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  • What's crystal clear from these stats is that the vast majority of the population see that the welfare system is in need of reform (3/4 for Major or Significant reform) and that the Labour party is the party of welfare.

    The LibDems are closest to average, the Tories are on the right side of the argument (albeit more negative than average) and Labour is on the wrong side of the argument and public opinion. If 3/4 of us want some meaningful reform I think that puts the onus on Redward to suggest what his policy is here does it not?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    I see people are still banging on about Downton Abbey, and rightly so.
    It is a rich vein for comedy. ;^)image
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    These Sun polls need to be taken with a very large pinch of salt after previous experience has not created trust.The impression my experience creates is very similar to this poll on the vile bedroom tax.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/poll-reveals-more-half-people-1815925

    You think attaching government minister's names to questions is unbiased?

    "I agree with George Osborne that the benefits system in Britain is broken"?

    And the overall (more neutral) question: "It's only fair that people with spare bedrooms in council or housing association homes should receive less housing benefit" - net agree: 0.

    I generally have fewer worries with YouGov wording than with ComRes.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Hmm...

    Britain's police chiefs are drawing up draconian rules under which the identities of people they arrest will be kept secret from the public.

    The move, which follows a recommendation by Lord Justice Leveson in his report into press standards, has been branded an attack on open justice and has led to comparisons with police states such as North Korea and Zimbabwe. Under current arrangements, police release basic details of a person arrested and in many cases will confirm a name to journalists. But the practice varies from force to force.

    Under the new guidance, to be circulated by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), forces will be banned from confirming the names of suspects, even when journalists know the identity of someone who has been arrested. Without official police confirmation, the legal risks of incorrect identification will prevent the media from publishing the names of suspects.

    The police plan for ‘secret arrests’ is being opposed by the Government’s own adviser on law reform, the Law Commission, which believes it is in the interests of justice that the police release the names of everyone who is arrested, except in very exceptional circumstances.

    A Mail on Sunday investigation has revealed that, chillingly, many forces have already altered their naming policies in the wake of last year’s Leveson report. Only two out of 14 forces that spoke to us said they would confirm the identity of a person arrested when a journalist suggested the right name to them. Yet senior police officers have told this paper that until very recently it was common practice for police forces to confirm the names of people arrested.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2305177/Secret-law-storm-police-chiefs-ban-public-knowing-arrest-Shock-new-blanket-ban-wake-Leveson-report-angers-civil-liberty-groups-condemn-threat-democracy.html#ixzz2Plml2PIn

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I have rather a lot of sympathy with this view - unfortunately too many Tories appear to now agree.

    RT @GABaines: "If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidise it" Ronald Reagan <the left's view on everything
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @afneil: Some Labour folk worry their party on wrong side of welfare debate but when E Miliband returns from hols he'll reinforce pro-welfare stance
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    There are in fact really only two conceivable ways for the tories to smash the UKIP vote.

    The first is that when Cammie let's Crosby off the leash to go after Farage and UKIP, (and he will) he actually finds something truly damaging to feed to the papers and Farage implodes.
    The success of which is fairly doubtful.


    The second is regaining the lead omnishambles Osborne lost them by looking competent on the economy instead of frantically scrambling from dog whistle to dog whistle (Europe, immigration, welfare) while wondering why the Kippers are doing so well.
    The success of which could only happen after the removal of Osbrowne.

    We'll see in the May locals just how much recent master strategies have helped the tories.

    After that there will be no excuses left.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited April 2013
    @Tim

    'Yet Cameron is prepared to sublimate all logic and let Toxic George front the benefit policy as part of his makeover'

    Yet Ed is prepared to sublimate all logic and let Chuka Harrison,who refers to voters as trash, front business policy as part of his makeover.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @john_zims

    Ed is prepared to sublimate all logic whenever his union paymasters pick up the phone
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    IHW said:

    The country is broke
    Welfare costs are out of control.
    All this talk of 'reform' and 'modernisation' and 'making work pay' (etc) completely misses the point: the welfare State is over, finished, kaput: too many people's votes were up to be bought by politicians who wanted power more than they wanted sane economics.

    [Random figures]
    If underlying growth is 3% and a raft of incompetent regulations and policies reduces that to 1.5%, then people will see their standard of living rise and people may not be easy to persuade that The Alternative Party can do better.

    When underlying growth is close to zero, those same rules and regulations (and there are ever-more of them, daily) mean growth is negative - at around -1.5%. Since that's political as well as economic suicide, the Treasury and BoE then throw the entire kitchen sink at the problem, from QE, to 0.5% interest rates to £120 billion pa of Keynsian stimulus - and all of those maintained for 5-6 years.

    The end result? The economy has not moved one iota, since the root cause of the problem - government itself - is not something that politicians are remotely interested in reviewing and looking at.

    The mirror shows an unforgiving image - and it's a deeply unflattering one. The almost complete absence of supply-side economic reforms lies at the heart of our economic (and social) woes: Farage has tapped into this underlying discontent and national understanding of the problem. No other politician seems prepared to grasp what nearly everyone else instinctively understands - we're massively over-regulated and in an attempt to eliminate risk and danger, we're also eliminated the incentives to take risks and seek rewards.

    @Antifrank:

    I had thought better of you than that. Powell was one of the most gifted and principled politicians of his, or any other, time and had a phenomenal brain and drive - he was the youngest Brigadier in the British army, having risen through the ranks in astonishingly short order.
    Farage has captured the public mood perfectly - but he was doing this not since 2010, but since 2001 or so, when anyone with eyes could see that spending and immigration were out of control and infrastructure spending woefully inadequate to cope with 50 million in the UK, let alone with 70 million plus.

    Your comment is thus both inaccurate and insulting to both men- each has powerful strengths and equally powerful shortcomings. Powell: 'the finest mind in British politics - until it's made up!' and Farage is both a smoker and has a market-trader's mind:@ quick to seize and opportunity, not so good at long-term strategy.

    Both, though, are genuine leaders, and both are far more in touch with the mood of the people than the metrosexual, metropolitan, middle-class mediocre men who have governed Britain for much of the last 45 years. Both are prepared to say what it is un-PC to say and both are prepared to speak 'to the people' rather than hide behind PR-speak sound-bites.

    The exact antithesis, in fact, to the empty-headed, vacuous imaged Wilson/Blair clones who lead the other three Parties.

    A better comparison, antifrank, IMO, would have been with Galloway (unkind) or Salmond (flattering): both are 'men of the people' in that they very succesfully articulate the aspirations of those they represent and are figureheads for A Political Movement - whether you like or agree with them or not!

    A very perceptive little article my friend in which I agree with almost every word.

    Still can't stand Galloway though
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Plato

    Why should a name be made public when arrested ?

    Surely it should be done when charged.

    Also if rape victims are not named those accused should only be named publicly once found guilty.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    @Carlotta. "Someone wrote that there are only 180 families with 11 or more children claiming benefit. Surely all families with children get benefit whether they claim it or not? "

    What I meant to say was that 'surely all families with 11 children get benefi whether they claim it or not' and no one is suggesting there are only 190 families with 11+ children are they? There must be several thousand if religious families are included.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    Just to be clear, this is not me talking about a deal with Labour so that headline is completely misleading. http://fb.me/DOUYLLYq

    I don't believe I have to add anything. :-)
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Scott p

    What is the logic in your opinion on the trident replacement in times of austerity ?
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    MikeK said:

    IHW said:

    The country is broke
    Welfare costs are out of control.
    All this talk of 'reform' and 'modernisation' and 'making work pay' (etc) completely misses the point: the welfare State is over, finished, kaput: too many people's votes were up to be bought by politicians who wanted power more than they wanted sane economics.

    [Random figures]
    If underlying growth is 3% and a raft of incompetent regulations and policies reduces that to 1.5%, then people will see their standard of living rise and people may not be easy to persuade that The Alternative Party can do better.

    When underlying growth is close to zero, those same rules and regulations (and there are ever-more of them, daily) mean growth is negative - at around -1.5%. Since that's political as well as economic suicide, the Treasury and BoE then throw the entire kitchen sink at the problem, from QE, to 0.5% interest rates to £120 billion pa of Keynsian stimulus - and all of those maintained for 5-6 years.

    The end result? The economy has not moved one iota, since the root cause of the problem - government itself - is not something that politicians are remotely interested in reviewing and looking at.

    The mirror shows an unforgiving image - and it's a deeply unflattering one. The almost complete absence of supply-side economic reforms lies at the heart of our economic (and social) woes: Farage has tapped into this underlying discontent and national understanding of the problem. No other politician seems prepared to grasp what nearly everyone else instinctively understands - we're massively over-regulated and in an attempt to eliminate risk and danger, we're also eliminated the incentives to take risks and seek rewards.

    @Antifrank:

    I had thought better of you than that. Powell was one of the most gifted and principled politicians of his, or any other, time and had a phenomenal brain and drive - he was the youngest Brigadier in the British army, having risen through the ranks in astonishingly short order.
    Farage has captured the public mood perfectly - but he was doing this not since 2010, but since 2001 or so, when anyone with eyes could see that spending and immigration were out of control and infrastructure spending woefully inadequate to cope with 50 million in the UK, let alone with 70 million plus.

    Your comment is thus both inaccurate and insulting to both men- each has powerful strengths and equally powerful shortcomings. Powell: 'the finest mind in British politics - until it's made up!' and Farage is both a smoker and has a market-trader's mind:@ quick to seize and opportunity, not so good at long-term strategy.

    Both, though, are genuine leaders, and both are far more in touch with the mood of the people than the metrosexual, metropolitan, middle-class mediocre men who have governed Britain for much of the last 45 years. Both are prepared to say what it is un-PC to say and both are prepared to speak 'to the people' rather than hide behind PR-speak sound-bites.

    The exact antithesis, in fact, to the empty-headed, vacuous imaged Wilson/Blair clones who lead the other three Parties.

    A better comparison, antifrank, IMO, would have been with Galloway (unkind) or Salmond (flattering): both are 'men of the people' in that they very succesfully articulate the aspirations of those they represent and are figureheads for A Political Movement - whether you like or agree with them or not!

    A very perceptive little article my friend in which I agree with almost every word.

    Still can't stand Galloway though
    Echoes of HD2.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Scott_P

    ' Some Labour folk worry their party on wrong side of welfare debate but when E Miliband returns from hols he'll reinforce pro-welfare stance'

    Liam 'there's no money left' Byrne is working on a policy to increase benefit payments.

    'www.guardian.co.uk › Politics › Welfare

    14 hours ago – Liam Byrne, the shadow work and pensions secretary, urges a return ... feel they pay an awful lot more in than they ever get back," Byrne writes.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Did anyone seriously expect anything different to this?

    All Crosby is doing is stoking the UKIP dragon.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    edited April 2013
    @John_zims


    "Roger was a big fan."

    Don't be fooled by all the revisionist historians on here. Nearly ALL the Labour posters thought Brown was the best person to take over. "Not Flash Just Gordon" summed up most people's attitude and we looked forward to the change with some optimism.

    It didn't quite turn out as we'd hoped.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013

    FPT

    tim said:

    Dave and George were the only two people in the country not to see the treaty situation unfolding.
    Or maybe they did see it but decided that the Master Strategy would work anyway.

    The second one. The whole point of this exercise was to make a referendum promise that they could wriggle out of. In this case the ability to wriggle out of it comes from the fact that they're hooking the referendum onto a treaty that's always just around the corner, but never actually arrives.
    Perhaps the tory Eurosceptics and backbenchers will be calm and understanding when they belatedly realise they have been made to look like gullible fools again?

    Or perhaps not. ;)



  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Ed Miliband is trying to fly by the seat of his pants on welfare. The problem is he isn't wearing any > Telegraph > http://tinyurl.com/cu2v4tb
  • shipmate1shipmate1 Posts: 37
    George V Chuka

    Chuka Umunna, tipped as a potential future leader, has admitted his is a member of ASmallWorld, which is known as MySpace for Millionaires

    George went to Eton and was in a posh club so call this one a draw?

    The MP registered under his middle name, Harrison. In comments on the site from 2006, he said: "Is it just me or is there a serious lack of cool places to go in central London at the weekends.

    "Most of the West End haunts seem to be full of trash and C-list wannabes

    George goes 1st class without paying so call this one a draw?

    Live but what I say not what I do - another draw??

    What do Labour offer differently again??
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Let the pb indignados remember this is a class war.The ruling class,such as the Torygraph and the bankers,are charging us for something we already own.Two-Jags is riding to Labour's rescue.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-wage-war-tories-1816307?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    So if it's Class War why is Labour led by an Oxbridge millionaire and the niece of the Countess of Longford ? Shouldn't Labour be renamed Privilege on that basis ? Sounds more like a Civil War between toffs to me.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    @shipmate

    Very funny. Member of a social network = Eton!

    Also George didn't go to Eton.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561
    Plato said:

    Hmm...

    Britain's police chiefs are drawing up draconian rules under which the identities of people they arrest will be kept secret from the public.

    The move, which follows a recommendation by Lord Justice Leveson in his report into press standards, has been branded an attack on open justice and has led to comparisons with police states such as North Korea and Zimbabwe. Under current arrangements, police release basic details of a person arrested and in many cases will confirm a name to journalists. But the practice varies from force to force.

    ...

    A Mail on Sunday investigation has revealed that, chillingly, many forces have already altered their naming policies in the wake of last year’s Leveson report. Only two out of 14 forces that spoke to us said they would confirm the identity of a person arrested when a journalist suggested the right name to them. Yet senior police officers have told this paper that until very recently it was common practice for police forces to confirm the names of people arrested.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2305177/Secret-law-storm-police-chiefs-ban-public-knowing-arrest-Shock-new-blanket-ban-wake-Leveson-report-angers-civil-liberty-groups-condemn-threat-democracy.html#ixzz2Plml2PIn

    Sounds good to me-unless there is an overriding public interest, why should someone with the presumption of innocence be branded in the media? And in any case it seems wholly unsatisfactory that the practice should vary from force to force - even for those who favour total publicaiton, a national policy really seems desirable here.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561
    shipmate1 said:

    George V Chuka

    Chuka Umunna, tipped as a potential future leader, has admitted his is a member of ASmallWorld, which is known as MySpace for Millionaires

    George went to Eton and was in a posh club so call this one a draw?

    The MP registered under his middle name, Harrison. In comments on the site from 2006, he said: "Is it just me or is there a serious lack of cool places to go in central London at the weekends.

    "Most of the West End haunts seem to be full of trash and C-list wannabes

    George goes 1st class without paying so call this one a draw?

    Live but what I say not what I do - another draw??

    What do Labour offer differently again??

    You do realise that the quote, and his membership of the chat group, is from 10 years ago when he wasn't even an MP?

  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    So Labour's only response on welfare is some sort of contributory principle, which is only going to piss off party supporters (and others) more as payments will not be based on need.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dan Hodges:

    "Labour is panicking over welfare: it's flying by the seat of Ed Miliband's pants, except Ed isn't wearing any"

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100210874/labour-is-panicking-over-welfare-its-flying-by-the-seat-of-ed-milibands-pants-except-ed-isnt-wearing-any
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Oops

    LABOUR high-flier Chuka Umunna was last night under pressure for using multiple online identities. Wikipedia records reveal the party-loving Streatham MP used a pseudonym to create his own flattering profile page in 2007. The latest embarrassing revelation comes days after Mr Umunna, 34, was blasted for a 2006 post in which he moaned at having to mix with “trash” when clubbing.

    Ed Miliband’s shadow business secretary faced fresh humiliation last night after he was found using the fake name Socialdemocrat to add a link to a left-wing magazine article branding him “the British Obama” and puffing up his role as a Labour Party activist through his membership of the Black Socialist Society.

    He also doctored the site’s report of a BBC Question Time exchange with ex-Sun editor Kelvin MacKenzie and altered the entry for left-wing Labour pressure group Compass.

    Mr Umunna made 13 further “corrections” over five months posing as one of the online encyclopaedia’s editors. His spokesman refused to deny he had made the amendments.

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4877069/Chukas-Wikid-act.html#ixzz2PlwiLBIZ
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Plato said:

    Oops

    LABOUR high-flier Chuka Umunna was last night under pressure for using multiple online identities. Wikipedia records reveal the party-loving Streatham MP used a pseudonym to create his own flattering profile page in 2007. The latest embarrassing revelation comes days after Mr Umunna, 34, was blasted for a 2006 post in which he moaned at having to mix with “trash” when clubbing.

    Ed Miliband’s shadow business secretary faced fresh humiliation last night after he was found using the fake name Socialdemocrat to add a link to a left-wing magazine article branding him “the British Obama” and puffing up his role as a Labour Party activist through his membership of the Black Socialist Society.

    He also doctored the site’s report of a BBC Question Time exchange with ex-Sun editor Kelvin MacKenzie and altered the entry for left-wing Labour pressure group Compass.

    Mr Umunna made 13 further “corrections” over five months posing as one of the online encyclopaedia’s editors. His spokesman refused to deny he had made the amendments.

    Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4877069/Chukas-Wikid-act.html#ixzz2PlwiLBIZ

    The PB Leftards who post incessantly about Grant Shapps will be all over that. Or not.
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Carlotta

    Already had that link and ScottP is copying week old tweets.

    Anyway keep at it. UKIP are are surging again thanks to all this welfare chat.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    You do realise that the quote, and his membership of the chat group, is from 10 years ago when he wasn't even an MP?

    You do realise the far right bloggers and tea party tories have always had a most 'peculiar' fixation on Chuka Umunna? ;^)

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    shipmate1 said:

    George V Chuka

    Chuka Umunna, tipped as a potential future leader, has admitted his is a member of ASmallWorld, which is known as MySpace for Millionaires

    George went to Eton and was in a posh club so call this one a draw?

    The MP registered under his middle name, Harrison. In comments on the site from 2006, he said: "Is it just me or is there a serious lack of cool places to go in central London at the weekends.

    "Most of the West End haunts seem to be full of trash and C-list wannabes

    George goes 1st class without paying so call this one a draw?

    Live but what I say not what I do - another draw??

    What do Labour offer differently again??

    You do realise that the quote, and his membership of the chat group, is from 10 years ago when he wasn't even an MP?

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    @Nick Palmer

    Tell you what Nick, I'll join you in asking the righties to stop wittering on about Chuka's idiocy when he wasn't an MP if you join me in getting the lefties to stop wittering on about Etonians - they weren't MPs at school either.
  • sealo0sealo0 Posts: 48
    NickPalmer said:

    "You do realise that the quote, and his membership of the chat group, is from 10 years ago when he wasn't even an MP?"

    That's an interesting defence perhaps George & David could use it regarding the Bullington Club!
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Does ScottP just re tweet or does he ever have an opinion of his own ?
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @shipmate1

    'George went to Eton'

    George went to St Paul's,Chuka Harrison went to St Dunstan's college.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Scott_P

    " The PB Leftards who post incessantly about Grant Shapps will be all over that. Or not. "

    Indeed. I'm not much fussed about such silliness - its simply a reflection of the person's attitude to self promotion which tends to be a trait in MPs and other attention seekers.

    It is very amusing tit for tat though ;^ )
  • sealo0 said:

    NickPalmer said:

    "You do realise that the quote, and his membership of the chat group, is from 10 years ago when he wasn't even an MP?"

    That's an interesting defence perhaps George & David could use it regarding the Bullington Club!

    And when does the statue of limitations expire on the Bermondsey by-election campaign?

  • KipperKipper Posts: 1
    @Carola

    Norman Tebbitt's union reforms of the 1980's were also achieved over a number of years - indeed, over a number of Parliaments. Consequently, they were able to carry public opinion with them - which would have always supported stronger measures at each turn (ie, the legislation always lagged behind the public mood).
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    Yorkcity said:

    Does ScottP just re tweet or does he ever have an opinion of his own ?

    Maybe he's a serial labour voting floating voter, or some such attention seeking PR silliness.

    *titters* ;^)

  • Roger said:

    Don't be fooled by all the revisionist historians on here. Nearly ALL the Labour posters thought Brown was the best person to take over. "Not Flash Just Gordon" summed up most people's attitude and we looked forward to the change with some optimism. It didn't quite turn out as we'd hoped.

    Well done.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Mick

    Which way do you think Milliband will go on the replacement to trident ?

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    john_zims said:

    @shipmate1

    'George went to Eton'

    George went to St Paul's,Chuka Harrison went to St Dunstan's college.

    I never understood how Osborne was admitted to th Bullingdon club given his school background.


  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Mick_Pork said:

    You do realise that the quote, and his membership of the chat group, is from 10 years ago when he wasn't even an MP?

    You do realise the far right bloggers and tea party tories have always had a most 'peculiar' fixation on Chuka Umunna? ;^)

    Nah Mick, you must have missed it. The Leftards love Chuka. Constantly banging on about him on here. I've said I think he's a lightweight arse and the sooner he buys his own ticket to oblivion the better, but I'm in a minority.

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I can't stand Chuka - he's such an empty suit with a pretty face who'd say anything to climb the greasy pole. I'm intrigued as to why EdM gave him a role at all - he makes Tony look like a Labour Man.

    I assume there is logic in there somewhere - but I can't see it. He's the ultimate metrosexual plastic spokesman - the *trash* nightclub comments just sum it up. I'm no clubber - but he comes across as someone who'd judge others on where they'd get into.
  • Mick_Pork said:

    You do realise the far right bloggers and tea party tories have always had a most 'peculiar' fixation on Chuka Umunna? ;^)

    You do realise that there are only 17 months for you to win the Scottish referendum. So why do you expend so much effort every day on attacking the Conservatives? I want you to win the referendum, but posting on here where the readership is probably under 8% Scottish, just seems a waste?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Roger said:

    Nearly ALL the Labour posters thought Brown was the best person to take over. "Not Flash Just Gordon" summed up most people's attitude and we looked forward to the change with some optimism.

    It didn't quite turn out as we'd hoped.

    Indeed- only one of my Labour friends thought Brown would be bad ("a splitter"), while I, like many was simply glad to see the back of Blair - a sober sensible "son of the Manse" was exactly what we needed after Blair's meretricious razzle dazzle......
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    Carola said:

    I've said I think he's a lightweight arse and the sooner he buys his own ticket to oblivion the better, but I'm in a minority.

    Not exactly a handicap where the Blairites or even little Ed are concerned, is it?

    Nor for that matter when it come to the always amusing travails of the Cameroons.
    'Tory Obama' Adam Afriyie will never win. But be warned, Prime Minister

    David Cameron is safe for the time being. But if he fades in popularity as the election approaches, his enemies will be only too willing to strike, says Peter Oborne.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9830871/Tory-Obama-Adam-Afriyie-will-never-win.-But-be-warned-Prime-Minister.html


  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Mick_Pork said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Does ScottP just re tweet or does he ever have an opinion of his own ?

    Maybe he's a serial labour voting floating voter, or some such attention seeking PR silliness.

    *titters* ;^)


    He does remind me of a serial labour voting floating voter, who used to be a SDP Blairite, now Cameron kipper lover.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013

    You do realise that there are only 17 months for you to win the Scottish referendum.

    Perfectly thanks. Having helped campaign several times already I will do so many more times again. You do realise that it is not up to you where other posters post, don't you?


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Palmer, with increasing online gaming such TV/film tie-ins could become more common. It'd certainly be a better pre-order selling point than a Pointy Sword Of Doom DLC.

    Free mini-DLC for participating in such votes would help to increase participation and bolster a viewership for the related TV offering.

    On Umunna, he's a slightly more articulate version of E. Miliband.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If we're all going to be held endlessly accountable for what we said and did when we were young, beautiful and stupid, politics is going to be much impoverished. Unfortunately, the personal is becoming almost all that matters about the political.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    antifrank said:

    If we're all going to be held endlessly accountable for what we said and did when we were young, beautiful and stupid, politics is going to be much impoverished. Unfortunately, the personal is becoming almost all that matters about the political.

    Many even hold politicians responsible for where their parents chose to send them to school!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    According to the Mirror, on the BBC Test Prescott is now established middle class.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/john-prescott-britain-still-ruled-1816297
    Interesting that Labour is now pushing for a benefits system based more on contribution based on Byrne's and Harman's comments today, could be a vote winner!
  • shipmate1shipmate1 Posts: 37
    NickPalmer said:

    You do realise that the quote, and his membership of the chat group, is from 10 years ago when he wasn't even an MP?

    I know Nick, I was just being a bit mischievous!! We love attacking on background and past comments only if it's against the other side hey! You being a typical politician Mr P!!

    I don't actually mind Chuka but amusing when past comments come back to haunt and the tribal politics of PB....
  • Mick_Pork said:

    You do realise that there are only 17 months for you to win the Scottish referendum.

    Perfectly thanks. Having helped campaign several times already I will do so many more times again. You do realise that it is not up to you where other posters post, don't you?
    You do realise that you have 17 months to save Scotland?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    If we're all going to be held endlessly accountable for what we said and did when we were young, beautiful and stupid, politics is going to be much impoverished. Unfortunately, the personal is becoming almost all that matters about the political.

    Many even hold politicians responsible for where their parents chose to send them to school!
    That's pretty lame too. Though if politicians now are out of touch, it's fair enough to criticise them for that.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Carlotta Vance

    When in trouble wheel out toxic Balls.

    'But then Philpott was convicted, the Daily Mail made the welfare state an accessory to the fact, and Shameless George Osborne moved in for the kill. Labour’s initial response was to downplay the whole issue. Then they lost their heads, and dispatched Ed Balls to launch an hysterical attack on Osborne, driving the Chancellor’s comments to the top of the news bulletins, and making the Labour Party look like they had been employed as Mick Philpott’s defence attorneys.

    Now we have the spectacle of Labour trying to recast itself as the party of welfare reform. Suddenly it’s Labour that wants to “make work pay”, is talking of responsibility at the bottom and threatening to remove people’s benefits. And good for Liam Byrne, because this is where Labour should be.

    But it’s too late. Much too late. The welfare debate is over. And Labour has lost it'.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013


    You do realise that you have

    As I already indicated, yes.
    If you have such obvious trouble understanding something when it is stated clearly to you, then constantly repeating your error only serves in making you look ever so slightly demented.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Tom Newton Dunn tweets:


    Talking to a few Labour MPs this am; not at all happy with leadership's line on benefits. Revolution is afoot.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Ha, not going to share any more than that, Mr. T?
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    This is no surprise. People want benefit reform, but they want it done fairly and compassionately as most people are in genuine need and hardship.

    By contrast, these reforms look and feel nasty and spiteful. But the policies themselves (coupled with millionaire tax cuts) and the shrill, nasty, divisive rhetoric Cameron Osborne and Co are using to sell them.

    In short the Tories may have badly misread public opinion. Or perhaps selective poll reading to justify a pre-existing ideological mindset?

    Either way, they might be shoring up the Right whilst becoming ever more toxic with everyone else (including the centrist and centre-left floating voters they would need to win).
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @John_Zims

    "When in trouble wheel out toxic Balls"

    I can't recall another modern day politician that provokes a desire in others to punch him.

    I'm not prone to such feelings but even I get it. He's the archetypal playground taunting bully who has never grown up. I read an article IIRC by Pat Hennessey [one of his mates and also buddies with Mr McBride] who described a day with him.

    Balls was so competitive he wouldn't let his own small kids win at football - that kinda told me all I needed to know on top of everything else we've seen at PMQs and on the box.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @Morris_Dancer Taking a wild guess, it will involve an archaeological mystery.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    And whatever Lefties say - this is uncomfortably true. Labour are running from one bandwagon to the next and getting runover in the process.

    RT @DPJHodges: @JeremyCliffe Because Byrne is reflecting what Ed Miliband's stance is this morning. It wasn't his stance a week ago.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    Plato said:


    I can't recall another modern day politician that provokes a desire in others to punch him.

    Try harder.

    image


  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Plato said:

    @John_Zims

    "When in trouble wheel out toxic Balls"

    I can't recall another modern day politician that provokes a desire in others to punch him.

    I'm not prone to such feelings but even I get it. He's the archetypal playground taunting bully who has never grown up. I read an article IIRC by Pat Hennessey [one of his mates and also buddies with Mr McBride] who described a day with him.

    Balls was so competitive he wouldn't let his own small kids win at football - that kinda told me all I needed to know on top of everything else we've seen at PMQs and on the box.

    George Osborne and Ed Balls are both in the same category here for most of the public. It's Alien vs Predator "whoever wins... we lose".
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. T, fair enough.

    Although my own approach has lots of light-hearted moments I do try and have occasional moments of creepiness. I think writing something frightening is very challenging. Lots of 'scary' stuff in both TV and literature is more about being excruciatingly graphic or sudden/shocking, which is more about the yuck factor and surprise than actual fear.

    Anyway, best of luck with your cunning plan.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @antifrank

    "George Osborne and Ed Balls are both in the same category here for most of the public. It's Alien vs Predator "whoever wins... we lose"

    I disagree - Osborne is Draco Malfoyle in my book, and as a cutting CotE he's never going to be popular with many. Balls is childish and bullying - we deserve a great deal better than him as SCotE - even EdM wanted someone else/anyone else for the job.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @SeanT

    "The Monkey's Paw by WW Jacobs"

    OMW - I'd forgotten about that book - its creepy.

    Have you read the EA Poe stuff recently? It has lots of potential and I noted you've been watching The Following.

    Cultish stuff has lots of opportunity to suck the reader in provided it doesn't go too far. Your knowledge of PolPot etc isn't that far adrift as a comparison - something based in Britain or the USA would be more accessible IMO.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    tim said:

    I see its anecdote vs polling agin for the PB Tories.

    Someone post the Toxic George poll please

    No tim - why don't you post the polling showing overwhelming opposition to welfare reform and the "bedroom tax"?

  • Mick_Pork said:

    You do realise that the quote, and his membership of the chat group, is from 10 years ago when he wasn't even an MP?

    You do realise the far right bloggers and tea party tories have always had a most 'peculiar' fixation on Chuka Umunna? ;^)

    Osbrowne, Cammie, fops, etc.

    Unspoofable, LOL, *Tears of Laughter* etc
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013

    Osbrowne, Cammie, fops, etc.

    Unspoofable, LOL, *Tears of Laughter* etc

    Osbrowne and Cammie are the PM and Chancellor and Mr Smithson and most of the other posters on here highlight them and their actions.

    Or didn't you realise that?

    Tears of laughter and unspoofable indeed. ;^)

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    carl said:

    This is no surprise. People want benefit reform, but they want it done fairly and compassionately as most people are in genuine need and hardship.

    By contrast, these reforms look and feel nasty and spiteful. But the policies themselves (coupled with millionaire tax cuts) and the shrill, nasty, divisive rhetoric Cameron Osborne and Co are using to sell them.

    In short the Tories may have badly misread public opinion. Or perhaps selective poll reading to justify a pre-existing ideological mindset?

    Either way, they might be shoring up the Right whilst becoming ever more toxic with everyone else (including the centrist and centre-left floating voters they would need to win).

    Riiiight....


    so if we do a big Danny Boyle musical with loads of dancing benefit claimants, benefits can be cut to nothing and nobody will mind ?

    Labour are just increasingly vacuous on this. If the coalition are doing a lot of the dirty work ahead of the next Parliament it might just be better to let them get on with it or else if you win you'll have to do it yourself. Any reform is going to hurt someone. It's like all middle-class Lefties should praise Thatcher every day for closing coal mines as it let them off the hook for carbon emissions and free to exercise moral indignation at global warming.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Looks like the lib dems are 'fixating' on the toxic Osbrowne.
    Grubby Osborne's crude opportunism is capitalising on fear

    By the time this column is published, I expect that the commentary on the grubby little intervention by George Osborne on the Philpott case will have moved on. We should be well into post-match analysis of tactics and strategy.

    Political dividing lines are de rigueur for modern politics – no one actually pauses to ask whether something is right. We ask instead whether this gamble was an astute reading of the public mood. Somewhere in all the excitement of keeping score we forget entirely that those caught up in the middle of the debate are human beings with real lives and concerns.

    There is nothing like insecurity to bring out the temptation to scapegoat. Instead of offering a bit of statesmanlike leadership, Conservative ministers have engaged repeatedly in crude opportunism, capitalising on fear. And so the battle is drawn: good against evil. Those without benefits against those who claim. Strivers against shirkers. The deserving against the undeserving.

    Then, just before Easter, all parties chose to reignite that old flame: the immigrant against the local. Demonising successive groups of people makes us less empathetic, less cohesive – a vision, to me, that is the very definition of "Broken Britain". And what of the subjects instrumentalised by this political game? They are placed further and further outside society, less able to change their own lot.

    To demonstrate a tough stance against that most hated of groups, so-called "failed asylum seekers", ministers in the last Labour government introduced a series of cards and vouchers to control what they could buy with the meagre rations we gave them. I know, from my work as a constituency MP, the humiliation, shame and practical barriers such schemes impose on those who are unable to return home for a whole host of reasons. Now local councils are using similar voucher and card-based schemes for today's hate-group, the British poor.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/grubby-osbornes-crude-opportunism-is-capitalising-on-fear-8563137.html
    Except more of the same as the May local elections approach. Even the lib dems know who the weakest link is in Cammie's chumocracy.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Mick_Pork said:

    Perhaps the tory Eurosceptics and backbenchers will be calm and understanding when they belatedly realise they have been made to look like gullible fools again?

    Well, if I was them I'd be in a big hurry to get some clarity on what happens if the non-existent treaty that Cameron's policy is premised on continues to non-exist.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    We have no idea how to win elections here in the UK ;^ )

    The acting president of Venezuela, Nicolas Maduro, has put a curse on citizens who do not vote for him in next week's election.

    He likened his main rival candidate, Henrique Capriles, to Spanish conquerors fighting indigenous people in the 16th Century.

    A centuries-old curse, he said, would fall on those who did not vote for him. Mr Capriles responded by saying the only curse for Venezuelans would be if Mr Maduro won the election.

    The country goes to the polls next Sunday to elect a successor to Hugo Chavez, the long-time leftist leader who died of cancer last month. Opinion polls suggest Mr Maduro, who was Chavez's deputy, has a lead of at least 10 points over his rival. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22056610
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Labour's South Sheilds short list:

    http://labourlist.org/2013/04/south-shields-selection-the-shortlist/

    Lewis Atkinson was born in South Shields and brought up in South Tyneside, where he ran a small business to fund himself through university. Since then he’s spent 8 years working in the local NHS – and ran as an independent candidate for the Labour Party NEC last year.

    Cllr Emma Lewell-Buck is a Social worker and local councillor for Primrose Ward. She’s a graduate of Northumbria University (studying in Politics and Media Studies) and was first elected to South Tyneside Council in 2004.

    Cllr Mark Walsh has 20 years’ experience in local government, including work as a welfare rights adviser and as a project manager overseeing various transformation projects. He’s a local councillor in Horsley Hill Ward.

    Paul Williams GP and public health doctor and GP Commissioner in Stockton. He’s also a Board member of ARC, Stockton Arts Centre.
  • redcliffe62redcliffe62 Posts: 342
    It would appear Better Together are (secretly?) being funded by money from Vitoil, who have an interesting history when it comes to oil sanctions and Iran.
    The chap in question running the show has no association with Scotland.
    Why is this guy allowed to throw money at keeping the Tores in charge of Scotland after 2014 when Cameron said he would not debate Salmond as it is a debate solely for Scotland.
    Hypocrisy from Cameron? Perhaps a PB Tory can respond.
    Feel free to read up about Vitoil first, it makes shocking reading.
  • mosesmoses Posts: 45
    Talking of millionaires......

    Kulgan of Crydee @KulganofCrydee

    With his property portfolio, Labour's Jon Cruddas is a millionaire just like Labour Leader Ed Miliband. #OutofTouch
    7:01 AM - 07 Apr 13

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561

    @Nick Palmer

    Tell you what Nick, I'll join you in asking the righties to stop wittering on about Chuka's idiocy when he wasn't an MP if you join me in getting the lefties to stop wittering on about Etonians - they weren't MPs at school either.

    I've never thought that it was anyone's fault where they went to school and I really don't care if they smoked behind the bike sheds or got drunk or whatever. But people from a limited and privileged background (I'd include myself - professional parents, international upbringing, etc.) do need to show they are making an effort to understand other backgrounds. I think Cameron does make a bit of an effort, not very succesfully, but Osborne doesn't seem to bother at all. The tendency is for spin doctors to get you photographed having a burger or queuing in Lidl, but what's really needed is an obvious readiness to listen and learn, rather than communicate in one-way broadcasts. I had no idea in 1997 what it was like to be a single parent on a rough estate, so I made a point of talking to lots of them. I'm still no expert, but I've got a fair idea. So, clearly, does IDS, even if his remedies are debatable.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013

    Well, if I was them I'd be in a big hurry to get some clarity on what happens if the non-existent treaty that Cameron's policy is premised on continues to non-exist.

    That runs the risk of getting an answer they do not like and looking more than a trifle gullible and stupid for believing Cammie's cast iron pledges again. I doubt it's actually dawned on that many of them yet either, but it will.

    The tory backbenchers and Eurosceptics also know that they have to carefully time when to get stroppy. Too soon and they will get blamed for disunity as the May local elections and all those tory councillor seats are up for grabs. Afterwards, if the May local elections are a bloodbath and the kipper vote merely increases, then they will not be so shy.



  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited April 2013
    antifrank said:

    If we're all going to be held endlessly accountable for what we said and did when we were young, beautiful and stupid, politics is going to be much impoverished. Unfortunately, the personal is becoming almost all that matters about the political.

    Well said. What makes matters even worse is people picking and choosing who they hold to account

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    @Nick Palmer

    Tell you what Nick, I'll join you in asking the righties to stop wittering on about Chuka's idiocy when he wasn't an MP if you join me in getting the lefties to stop wittering on about Etonians - they weren't MPs at school either.

    I've never thought that it was anyone's fault where they went to school and I really don't care if they smoked behind the bike sheds or got drunk or whatever. But people from a limited and privileged background (I'd include myself - professional parents, international upbringing, etc.) do need to show they are making an effort to understand other backgrounds. I think Cameron does make a bit of an effort, not very succesfully, but Osborne doesn't seem to bother at all. The tendency is for spin doctors to get you photographed having a burger or queuing in Lidl, but what's really needed is an obvious readiness to listen and learn, rather than communicate in one-way broadcasts. I had no idea in 1997 what it was like to be a single parent on a rough estate, so I made a point of talking to lots of them. I'm still no expert, but I've got a fair idea. So, clearly, does IDS, even if his remedies are debatable.
    Fraid so Nick, but at the end of the day the spinners inside all parties have made politics what it is. Since the major parties don't really have much of a difference between them atm we are left with personality politics by default. Regrettably I can't see much which will shift the focus this side of an election.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @SeanT

    "a haunted.... greatcoat"

    Blimey - that's not something I'd consider for a second as creepy - though a 70s episode of a black vinyl sofa that ate someone in Dr Who left me worried - but I was about 10yrs old.

    The only film I've EVER seen that had an affect on me was James Carpenter's version of The Thing. I was a hardcore horror/gore watcher [all night showings at the cinema etc] and it scared the crap out of me using nothing but extensive suspense and a bit of excellent CGI. It's the only movie that ever made me aware of my own heart-rate and my pride kept me in my seat yet I was desperate to leave the theatre.

    I'd still consider it to be one of the very best remakes I've ever seen - given its vintage of 1982, its still very good/pulse racing stuff.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouZkkIsLiNg
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited April 2013
    SeanT said:

    (I'm counting you as half because you are clearly semi-literate)

    It could be worse, I could be making bizarre sex tourist noises then asking the posters on PB for stories and books to desperately plagiarise.
    SeanT said:

    Ooooooooooh I've got an idea for me next boooooooook.


    Ooooooooh. Oooooooooh.

    Don't touch me I'm sizzling!

    Tssss!


    I've been told to move into more upmarket Gillian Flynn type thrillers (or face an end to my commercial fiction career) and I've been casting around, with increasing urgency, for a plot.

    I'd be interested to know of any other scary books I might have missed.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    SeanT said:

    Ha, not going to share any more than that, Mr. T?

    Sadly, no. I'm going to grasp it to myself, like Scrooge and his sovereigns.

    I've been told to move into more upmarket Gillian Flynn type thrillers (or face an end to my commercial fiction career) and I've been casting around, with increasing urgency, for a plot.

    I think I now have that idea. Genuinely sinister.

    Whether I can bring it off is a different matter.

    On the issue of scary books, I was having a related debate on Twitter yesterday. As part of my warming up exercises for this new venture, I've been reading all the supposedly scary books and stories in the canon. It is amazing how few genuinely scary books there are.

    The only short stories that gave me a frisson were The Monkey's Paw by WW Jacobs, and The Willows by Algernon Blackwood. MR James was OK-ish, but didn't live up to the hype.

    The only novels that provided any goosebumps at all were the Woman in Black by Susan Hill, which is mildly unnerving, and the absolutely classic The Haunting of Hill House, by Shirley Jackson. The latter actually made me shudder, the ONLY book or story to achieve this.

    I'd be interested to know of any other scary books I might have missed. It certainly seems that writing scary is even harder than writing comedy which, in turn, is harder than writing tragedy. as any fule kno.
    You obviously have never read the early Dean R. Koontz books. My favorites are Watchers and Strangers, mainly because they are horror with an SF base. Very well and tautly written too, unlike his long drawn out later works.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    It would appear Better Together are (secretly?) being funded by money from Vitoil, who have an interesting history when it comes to oil sanctions and Iran.
    The chap in question running the show has no association with Scotland.
    Why is this guy allowed to throw money at keeping the Tores in charge of Scotland after 2014 when Cameron said he would not debate Salmond as it is a debate solely for Scotland.
    Hypocrisy from Cameron? Perhaps a PB Tory can respond.
    Feel free to read up about Vitoil first, it makes shocking reading.

    Redcliffe, you can expect all sorts of ne'er do well's to be funding the unionist cause and their will be little complaint from the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems. Bet most of their funding will be from outside Scotland as well.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    @SeanT - many moons ago I read Dornford Yates' "An Eye for a Tooth" - more thriller than horror - but it featured a hunting lodge where the hall floor was on a pivot and once you stepped onto it and crossed the half way point it tilted and tipped you into the charnel house below where the skeletons and corpses of the baddies previous victims lay rotting....
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Question for @PBModerator

    Does a *greyed out* avatar mean the person can no longer post? I've noticed a few that were in colour and then gone grey and haven't posted since.
  • It would appear Better Together are (secretly?) being funded by money from Vitoil, who have an interesting history when it comes to oil sanctions and Iran.
    The chap in question running the show has no association with Scotland.

    Well, it's not exactly a secret, since the CEO of Vitol has an article in today's Sunday Herald explaining why he is making the donation. He also describes his association with Scotland which you say doesn't exist.

    I am in favour of Scottish independence, but lazy, easily-disprovable posts like yours do not help the cause.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    malcolmg said:

    It would appear Better Together are (secretly?) being funded by money from Vitoil, who have an interesting history when it comes to oil sanctions and Iran.
    The chap in question running the show has no association with Scotland.
    Why is this guy allowed to throw money at keeping the Tores in charge of Scotland after 2014 when Cameron said he would not debate Salmond as it is a debate solely for Scotland.
    Hypocrisy from Cameron? Perhaps a PB Tory can respond.
    Feel free to read up about Vitoil first, it makes shocking reading.

    Redcliffe, you can expect all sorts of ne'er do well's to be funding the unionist cause and their will be little complaint from the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems. Bet most of their funding will be from outside Scotland as well.
    If the Nats are running short of cash, they could always ask the Pentagon for an advance ;-)
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    @SeanT

    "The scene with the head-on-spider-legs"

    That's what did it for me - literally. I'm embarrassed to say but I was scared of using a shower curtain for 3 months after I saw the film as I kept imaging the spider on the bathroom floor behind it.

    I'd previously mocked my husband's Aunty Isobel for having a breakdown after watching The Exorcist [which I thought was immensely silly] ...

    It took me years to watch scary stuff after this - a real watershed was deciding to see The Thing again in the dark on my own... its amazing how something totally imaginary can hit the spot.

    A great coat isn't going to make me change my wardrobe in a million years. Perhaps an evil headscarf is the alternative...
  • mosesmoses Posts: 45
    Another Labour about turn...amazing what being on the wrong side of the fence can make you do.

    "Labour wants to "strengthen the old principle of contribution" in the benefits system, the shadow work and pensions secretary says. Many people "feel they pay an awful lot more in than they ever get back", Liam Byrne wrote in the Observer. He also said "people who work and contribute to their community" should get priority in social housing."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22056212

    In other words restrict benefits to those that actually deserve them. Those that work for the community
    Should get benefits rather than the layabouts. 100.% about turn from their period in government where payments were hosed liberally over the Labour voters.

    Meanwhile those comments drives the proverbial wagon and horses through all the Labour leftie rhetoric spouted over the last few weeks and their future poistion about welfare. Labour are now pointing all ways at once, their welfare arguments have collapsed and the shadow front bench is in total utter chaos on the question of welfare.Labour have no credibility on welfare and the welfare arguments can now join the NHS and economic competence as Labour epic Failures both in government and also now in opposition.

    Now Just watch the PB lefties argue that's not what was said / meant etc etc. lol




  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    SeanT said:

    Ha, not going to share any more than that, Mr. T?

    Sadly, no. I'm going to grasp it to myself, like Scrooge and his sovereigns.

    I've been told to move into more upmarket Gillian Flynn type thrillers (or face an end to my commercial fiction career) and I've been casting around, with increasing urgency, for a plot.

    I think I now have that idea. Genuinely sinister.

    Whether I can bring it off is a different matter.

    On the issue of scary books, I was having a related debate on Twitter yesterday. As part of my warming up exercises for this new venture, I've been reading all the supposedly scary books and stories in the canon. It is amazing how few genuinely scary books there are.

    The only short stories that gave me a frisson were The Monkey's Paw by WW Jacobs, and The Willows by Algernon Blackwood. MR James was OK-ish, but didn't live up to the hype.

    The only novels that provided any goosebumps at all were the Woman in Black by Susan Hill, which is mildly unnerving, and the absolutely classic The Haunting of Hill House, by Shirley Jackson. The latter actually made me shudder, the ONLY book or story to achieve this.

    I'd be interested to know of any other scary books I might have missed. It certainly seems that writing scary is even harder than writing comedy which, in turn, is harder than writing tragedy. as any fule kno.
    'Monkey's Paw' is disturbing and incredibly sad - though I like that 'Turn of the Screw'-ish stuff. Possibly worth looking round the second hand/charity shops for some of the old Pan horror short story series. May seem tame now but scared the bejesus out of me when I was young.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited April 2013
    @Sean @MikeK

    That's interesting - Sci-Fi vs Satanic stuff - being completely non-religious Satanic stuff doesn't bother me at all, but I REALLY don't like zombie movies any more.

    I've no idea what makes me uncomfortable with them. They're invariably very silly, but they get under my skin. I loved Shaun of the Dead though and saw it twice at the pictures, though it took some pathetic guts to see it the first time!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfDUv3ZjH2k
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tim said:

    But the Tories have made the mistake of having the poster boy of entitlement front their campaign

    You mean having a toxic incompetent liability like Osbrowne front this was a mistake?

    Hard to believe. ;^)
    MPs' expenses: George Osborne 'must be made to pay' say Lib Dems

    George Osborne, the shadow chancellor, is facing demands to “pay back” £55,000 in capital gains tax, which critics say he is morally obliged to pay after “flipping” his designated second property.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5526823/MPs-expenses-George-Osborne-must-be-made-to-pay-say-Lib-Dems.html





  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited April 2013
    @SeanT

    Well I think you should have a peep at the two books I mentioned; it never hurts to follow up a lead.

    But if you are in to the satanic, you could try Dennis Wheatlys "The Devil Rides Out". It scared me witless when I first read it, but that may be because I was 11 years old at the time. :-)
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    tim said:

    @SeanT
    But the Tories have made the mistake of having the poster boy of entitlement front their campaign

    @JGForsyth: Miliband won’t back down from welfare fight. Will attack Osborne for his Philpott remarks @ Lab campaign launch tmrw http://t.co/7Kstsd2c79

    If only Cameron didnt always prioritise his mate, how much better would it be coming from someone not so tainted by incompetence privilege and voter disdain

    Ooh that'll be a real frightener Ed makes a speech. What was the last one about ? Who can remember ? It's all puff and waffle.
This discussion has been closed.