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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New YouGov polling in 50 key LAB marginals offers a glimmer of

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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,207
    One of Chris from Paris's 2 tips for PM has come in:

    https://twitter.com/yannikouts/status/864101620497494016
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018
    edited May 2017
    @DanSmith Politically interested overweight sample klaxon indeed.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,707

    Also, anything that upsets the Conservative Right makes me very happy indeed. Their ideas of what Britain should be like should stay on the backbenches.

    Given Labour's current unelectability, and the idiocy of the membership regarding Corbyn, I don't see where the Conservative Right goes if they really dislike May's policies especially with a significant Tory majority she'll have - she clearly expects that to give her more room to do what she wants.

    Given May's attitude towards the police while Home Secretary, her recent policies don't actually surprise me too much.

    I suspect after the election quite a few Tory loonies will link Mrs May's changes on stop and search to the increased knife crime in London.
    FWIW, I think May is still a Conservative, and believes in a low-tax economy.

    But, I think her emphasis is different and she will focus those tax cuts on low/low-middle earners, not higher earners, and shift the balance of public spending away from pensioners, and towards struggling workers/families trying to afford a home, childcare or other bills.

    In other words, people in their 30s-40s, not those aged 55+, and people earning 15-35k, not those earning 50-80k.
    She's a socially liberal conservative, just look at her introducing same sex marriage or changes on stop and search.

    But elsewhere I have my doubts on her broader conservativism.
    She would see her herself as being her own woman: socially liberal on some things (as you describe above) and socially conservative on others, such as immigration and the family.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is what I was expecting. Labour will get hammered here. Is this similar to the poll in Wales ?
    Wow that's brutal..
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Mortimer said:

    Guardian write up on ICM Poll says Conservative Lead in the Top 50 Labour Marginals is now 20% (52-32) vs. 10% last week (48-38). Even allowing for MOE this would fit a narrative that Labour's 30% buoyancy may be driven more by solid voters in safe seats as opposed to the marginals.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/15/are-tories-workers-party-labour-polling-figures-suggest-they-are

    I've been positing this theory for weeks. It is truly the only explanation that fits with:

    - my experience of talking to voters
    - the heading VI and regional subsamples
    - the comments from Labour MPs

    and, of course, my desire for a decent Tory majority ;)
    That C2 figure is through the roof.

    Which is the most C2 Labour seat in England ?
    C2 is also quite Kippy so this shouldn't be a surprise.

    http://www.gbmaps.info/social-class-maps/c2.html

    Not by constituency, but you can see C2 largely maps places UKIP did well at the last GE.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Commenting

    Guardian write up on ICM Poll says Conservative Lead in the Top 50 Labour Marginals is now 20% (52-32) vs. 10% last week (48-38). Even allowing for MOE this would fit a narrative that Labour's 30% buoyancy may be driven more by solid voters in safe seats as opposed to the marginals.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/15/are-tories-workers-party-labour-polling-figures-suggest-they-are

    Obviously this will be the next thread :-D
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited May 2017
    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is what I was expecting. Labour will get hammered here. Is this similar to the poll in Wales ?

    Edit: I plugged these figures into my simulation [ which previously had "national" figures" ].

    Prior: C 41, Lab 18.

    Now: C44, Lab 15.

    Note improvement in LD figures. Labour should target those.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,017
    Mr. Llama, well, the medieval era did cover quite a few centuries and things did change over that period.

    Also, bread and cheese were the staples of peasant diets. I'm not saying in many places fish wasn't eaten, just that it wasn't the case that fish was eaten as often as cheese/bread.

    Agree entirely ale was the order of the day, but I didn't really go into drinks at all.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited May 2017

    Guardian write up on ICM Poll says Conservative Lead in the Top 50 Labour Marginals is now 20% (52-32) vs. 10% last week (48-38). Even allowing for MOE this would fit a narrative that Labour's 30% buoyancy may be driven more by solid voters in safe seats as opposed to the marginals.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/15/are-tories-workers-party-labour-polling-figures-suggest-they-are

    On a six pollster average (don't knows and undecideds still in the 100%):

    Labour are picking up 12% Libs, 7% Kippers and 4% Tories
    Tories are picking up 42% Kippers. 19% Libs, 10% Labour

    Greens/Plaids look like 20% transfers to Lab.

    It does indeed suggest that Labour are gaining votes where they are largely useless and losing them where they matter.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 914

    One of Chris from Paris's 2 tips for PM has come in:

    https://twitter.com/yannikouts/status/864101620497494016

    A Prime Minister with a beard - whatever next!
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,761
    Scott_P said:
    Bish, Darlo, Poolies, Smoggie South & East Cleveland and mebbies some more. All going Blue. For feck's sake.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,028
    edited May 2017

    isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Right everyone, we need to work out which racial group you are in to be able to submit our government return.

    Will all Jews please go and stand in the corner over there, all blacks there, South Asians over there....
    It is why we need diversity officers. The government lays down rules and someone has the responsibility for following and monitoring them.

    25 years ago the NHS was quite dodgy on equal opportunities, but those days are gone. The exception is higher management, who are disproportionately white British.
    25 years ago (or thereabouts) you could watch Love Thy Neighbour on the tellybox. Attitudes change and my belief is that in the vast majority of cases today in the UK, race isn't taken into account when hiring or paying people.

    (Unless they are Polish plumbers vs locals.)
    25 or thereabouts cover 41?

    7 series though, shows it was popular in its time

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Thy_Neighbour

    Poles aren't a different race
    I worked in Ireland in 2007 and was astonished to find they had an up to date version of Mind Your Language showing weekly. It felt like time warping to 1980 but with leprechauns.
    Even in this century we had Little Britain, which played heavily on racial stereotypes. I am sure Walliams and Lucas would defend themselves by saying they were being ironic, but so did the makers of Mind Your Language and Til Death Do Us Part.

    Actually I find the most distasteful character in Little Britain to be Ann the mentally ill patient. How did they get away with that?
    LB was utter guff tbf
    A couple of the sketches rank in my all time favs (The Scottish Hotelier's riddle, Fat Fighers "Dust") but other parts I found quite gross and unfunny, in particular the character of Ann, the Nan fancier and "Bitty"
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,761

    bobajobPB said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Right everyone, we need to work out which racial group you are in to be able to submit our government return.

    Will all Jews please go and stand in the corner over there, all blacks there, South Asians over there....
    It is why we need diversity officers. The government lays down rules and someone has the responsibility for following and monitoring them.

    25 years ago the NHS was quite dodgy on equal opportunities, but those days are gone. The exception is higher management, who are disproportionately white British.
    25 years ago (or thereabouts) you could watch Love Thy Neighbour on the tellybox. Attitudes change and my belief is that in the vast majority of cases today in the UK, race isn't taken into account when hiring or paying people.

    (Unless they are Polish plumbers vs locals.)
    25 or thereabouts cover 41?

    7 series though, shows it was popular in its time

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Thy_Neighbour

    Poles aren't a different race
    I worked in Ireland in 2007 and was astonished to find they had an up to date version of Mind Your Language showing weekly. It felt like time warping to 1980 but with leprechauns.
    Even in this century we had Little Britain, which played heavily on racial stereotypes. I am sure Walliams and Lucas would defend themselves by saying they were being ironic, but so did the makers of Mind Your Language and Til Death Do Us Part.

    Actually I find the most distasteful character in Little Britain to be Ann the mentally ill patient. How did they get away with that?
    Not allowed to talk to Isam but not a partisan point. He's absolutely right. Little Britain was pretty awful and the mentally ill character was just beyond the pale. I find Walliams and Lucas waspish to the point of being misanthropic.
    I just found the humour of Little Britain immature.

    The Fast Show had some funny scenes, but was very repetitive, which was supposedly part of the joke, but I found slightly lazy. Catherine Tate was similar.

    Both to some extent leveraged Theresa May's strong and stable, in that if you repeat a character and its catchphrase often enough, it eventually enters the national cultural lexicon.
    "Today, I have been mostly eating strong & stable food"

    "Being strong & stable is very much like making love to a beautiful woman"

    "I'd better be going to the bottom field sir, to sort out the drainage and make it strong and stable."
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,656

    Scott_P said:
    Bish, Darlo, Poolies, Smoggie South & East Cleveland and mebbies some more. All going Blue. For feck's sake.
    Thank you for voting for Corbyn as leader in 2015.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Those voting figures for the North East are stunning.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Labour loses 3 more seats in the North East compared to "national" swings:

    Hartlepool, Sedgefield, Tynemouth.

    Prior: Lab 23, Con 6

    Now: Lab 20, Con 9

    VI
    2017 / 2015 : C 25 / 40, Lab 47 / 42, LD 7 / 6 , UKIP 17 /8
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited May 2017
    DanSmith said:
    Vote efficiency premium shot to pieces. Only London sees an area of many Labour seats generally holding off the surge. This could be a bloodbath.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    SeanT said:
    I saw that on Twitter early this morning and wondered when someone was going to mention it on here. Strangely for a site where the sub-questions of a poll are quickly flagged up, nobody until now has. I wonder why.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,017
    Mr. Rentool, and then, I won a 170 seat majority, and ushered in a thousand year reign of Conservative dominance.

    Which was nice.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    In fact the last ICM had an initial sample of 545 "very interested", weighted down to 291 based on the BES.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    May has had her Gillian Duffy moment and managed not to call the lady in question a bigot or denigrate her in any other way. Gordon Brown, your team took one hell of a beating.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    North West:

    National swing: C 30, Lab 44, LD 1

    Regional swing: C 34, Lab 40, LD 1
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018

    DanSmith said:
    Vote efficiency premium shot to pieces. Only London sees an area of many Labour seats generally holding off the surge. This could be a bloodbath.
    Even London isn't too bad for the Tories to be perfectly honest. There are some seats that need very low swings from Labour there (Ilford North, Brentford & Isleworth, Ealing, Hampstead) and also some potentially deeper but more kippery fruit in the east (Dagenham).
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    SeanT said:
    I saw that on Twitter early this morning and wondered when someone was going to mention it on here. Strangely for a site where the sub-questions of a poll are quickly flagged up, nobody until now has. I wonder why.
    Lol - no you don't.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,761

    Scott_P said:
    Bish, Darlo, Poolies, Smoggie South & East Cleveland and mebbies some more. All going Blue. For feck's sake.
    Thank you for voting for Corbyn as leader in 2015.
    But not in 2016!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    edited May 2017


    "Today, I have been mostly eating strong & stable food"

    "Being strong & stable is very much like making love to a beautiful woman"

    "I'd better be going to the bottom field sir, to sort out the drainage and make it strong and stable."

    I think Labour are going to be imitating Unlucky Alf.

    "Aw.....Bugger........."

    EDIT: This seems very apposite for how Labour are being treated -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC1CdHQXiVU
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DanSmith said:
    Tories within a 1% swing of catching up to Labour in the North East! That's unbelievable. Labour lead down from 22% in 2015 to 2% now.

    If YouGov is overestimate Labour then the Tories could be ahead in the North East. I can't wrap my head around that, but then they did win the Tees Valley Mayoralty ...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018
    I'd have thought outer London would be precisely the sort of place where people could just about manage voting for Miliband, but certainly not Corbyn.

    In fact that's probably just about the whole of the UK to be honest.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Astonishing to think that somewhere like Sunderland Central is targettable on these figures.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    With this regional breakdown the 9/4 available on Labour getting 100-149 seats looks like VALUE

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/total-seats-labour
    but but but

    every fibre of my being says that Labour can't get fewer than 150 seats. it's just not possible.

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    First good news:

    Yorks and Humber:

    National swing: C 23, Lab 29, LD 2

    Regional swing: C 23, Lab 29, LD 2


    No change !!!!!!!!!!!!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018

    Astonishing to think that somewhere like Sunderland Central is targettable on these figures.

    I think Labour will hold it. By how much will indicate the scale of the unfolding disaster.
    If it has dropped, well all bets are off at that point.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    DanSmith said:
    Vote efficiency premium shot to pieces. Only London sees an area of many Labour seats generally holding off the surge. This could be a bloodbath.
    There is no doubt Labour are heading for a bloodbath. Only the scale of the massacre is to be determined.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    With this regional breakdown the 9/4 available on Labour getting 100-149 seats looks like VALUE

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/total-seats-labour
    As it stands I can't see him getting over 150, the next three weeks are going to be brutal
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    I think Labour will hold it. By how much will indicate the scale of the unfolding disaster.
    If it has dropped, well all bets are off at that point.

    Will SPIN and Spreadex still be trading at that point...
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Pulpstar said:

    Astonishing to think that somewhere like Sunderland Central is targettable on these figures.

    I think Labour will hold it. By how much will indicate the scale of the unfolding disaster.
    If it has dropped, well all bets are off at that point.
    On the contrary, some very long-odds bets would be on!
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Astonishing to think that somewhere like Sunderland Central is targettable on these figures.

    I think Labour will hold it. By how much will indicate the scale of the unfolding disaster.
    If it has dropped, well all bets are off at that point.
    If it drops then sub 100 is ON
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    With this regional breakdown the 9/4 available on Labour getting 100-149 seats looks like VALUE

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/total-seats-labour
    As it stands I can't see him getting over 150, the next three weeks are going to be brutal
    If YG figures are correct, how can Labour match Ed M's vote share percentage?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154

    DanSmith said:
    Tories within a 1% swing of catching up to Labour in the North East! That's unbelievable. Labour lead down from 22% in 2015 to 2% now.

    If YouGov is overestimate Labour then the Tories could be ahead in the North East. I can't wrap my head around that, but then they did win the Tees Valley Mayoralty ...
    Everyone's a Tory now, canny lad....
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    Pulpstar said:

    Astonishing to think that somewhere like Sunderland Central is targettable on these figures.

    I think Labour will hold it. By how much will indicate the scale of the unfolding disaster.
    If it has dropped, well all bets are off at that point.
    On the contrary, some very long-odds bets would be on!

    Not even SeanT would have the words to describe that moment!!!!
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Scott_P said:
    Bish, Darlo, Poolies, Smoggie South & East Cleveland and mebbies some more. All going Blue. For feck's sake.
    Thank you for voting for Corbyn as leader in 2015.
    But not in 2016!
    Somewhat like escaping responsibility for giving the Labour party the pox because you applied a beauty spot to the scare a year later.
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited May 2017

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    With this regional breakdown the 9/4 available on Labour getting 100-149 seats looks like VALUE

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/total-seats-labour
    As it stands I can't see him getting over 150, the next three weeks are going to be brutal
    If YG figures are correct, how can Labour match Ed M's vote share percentage?
    Well I guess Labour are just about the only 'not Tory' vote in town outside Scotland. With the pathetic shares forecast for kippers, libs and Greens they HAVE to get high 20s to 30 or it will be a 250 majority.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Everyone's a Tory now, canny lad....

    Howay, man
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,736

    Theresa is rapidly becoming the Tories' female Tony Blair:

    'I have taken from my party everything they thought they believed in, I have stripped them of their core beliefs. What keeps them together is success and power'

    How much longer will the Tory Right be able to stomach this sort of thing? Surely someone will break ranks soon and noisily defect to UKIP.
    More likely to sit quietly and wait for it to all go wrong and then do a Corbyn.
    Rats don't desert TO a sinking ship.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Scott_P said:
    Bish, Darlo, Poolies, Smoggie South & East Cleveland and mebbies some more. All going Blue. For feck's sake.
    Thank you for voting for Corbyn as leader in 2015.
    But not in 2016!
    Sandy, even in 2015 it was obvious that Jeremy is a proper Doyle.
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    Pulpstar said:

    Astonishing to think that somewhere like Sunderland Central is targettable on these figures.

    I think Labour will hold it. By how much will indicate the scale of the unfolding disaster.
    If it has dropped, well all bets are off at that point.
    On the contrary, some very long-odds bets would be on!
    Matters would be almost terminal if the Beast of Bolsover loses his seat.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolsover_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    With this regional breakdown the 9/4 available on Labour getting 100-149 seats looks like VALUE

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/total-seats-labour
    but but but

    every fibre of my being says that Labour can't get fewer than 150 seats. it's just not possible.

    Mr. Rabbit, you might want to cast your mind back a few weeks when the talk on here was whether it was possible that Labour could go below 200 seats.

    For myself I am still struggling to match the polling VI numbers with the seat predictions on here. The Lib Dems polling 8% or so will get 10+ seats (20 to 55 if you listen to Roger) but Labour on about 30% will lose seats in big numbers.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018
    SeanT said:

    JackW said:

    DanSmith said:
    Vote efficiency premium shot to pieces. Only London sees an area of many Labour seats generally holding off the surge. This could be a bloodbath.
    There is no doubt Labour are heading for a bloodbath. Only the scale of the massacre is to be determined.
    You can get 12/1 against Labour going under 100 seats...
    I prefer Tory majority 300+ which I'm on at 100-1 :)

    NI 18, Green 1, Lib Dem 8, SNP 45, Speaker 1, Plaid 2 adds through.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    surbiton said:

    Labour will win Ed South. The question is Ed North and Leigh. And, East Lothian.

    If you go to the Ashcroft survey more voters in Ed North and Leigh want JC as PM than TM. Not a usual result.

    EN&L is my seat, but I've not been here long enough to know it. The Tories are the only people I have received a general election leaflet from thus far, talking up their chances on the basis of the local election results.

    If you take the local election results as any sort of guide, Labour are far more likely to finish fourth than first in this seat. The local election results were consistent with the opinion polls that show the Conservatives advancing as Labour retreat.

    Why should Edinburgh North and Leith be any different?
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    It does look as though those who enjoy "Terrible night for the Tories" GEs will be looking forward to the one after this.

    Good afternoon, everyone.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,154
    JackW said:

    DanSmith said:
    Vote efficiency premium shot to pieces. Only London sees an area of many Labour seats generally holding off the surge. This could be a bloodbath.
    There is no doubt Labour are heading for a bloodbath. Only the scale of the massacre is to be determined.
    I fear source material for your pies is going be rather hard to come by, Jack....
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018

    surbiton said:

    Labour will win Ed South. The question is Ed North and Leigh. And, East Lothian.

    If you go to the Ashcroft survey more voters in Ed North and Leigh want JC as PM than TM. Not a usual result.

    EN&L is my seat, but I've not been here long enough to know it. The Tories are the only people I have received a general election leaflet from thus far, talking up their chances on the basis of the local election results.

    If you take the local election results as any sort of guide, Labour are far more likely to finish fourth than first in this seat. The local election results were consistent with the opinion polls that show the Conservatives advancing as Labour retreat.

    Why should Edinburgh North and Leith be any different?
    I think the idea of Labour taking Edinburgh North & Leith, but not capturing East Lothian is frankly laughable.
    I'm on East Lothian at 10-1, I'm expecting the seat to stay SNP mind.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    East Midlands:

    National swing: C 34, Lab 12

    Regional swing: C 35, Lab 11

    Mansfield goes Tory !


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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,656
    Should I tear up those 10/1 betting slips which has Labour polling sub 20%?
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    Also, anything that upsets the Conservative Right makes me very happy indeed. Their ideas of what Britain should be like should stay on the backbenches.

    Given Labour's current unelectability, and the idiocy of the membership regarding Corbyn, I don't see where the Conservative Right goes if they really dislike May's policies especially with a significant Tory majority she'll have - she clearly expects that to give her more room to do what she wants.

    Given May's attitude towards the police while Home Secretary, her recent policies don't actually surprise me too much.

    I suspect after the election quite a few Tory loonies will link Mrs May's changes on stop and search to the increased knife crime in London.
    FWIW, I think May is still a Conservative, and believes in a low-tax economy.

    But, I think her emphasis is different and she will focus those tax cuts on low/low-middle earners, not higher earners, and shift the balance of public spending away from pensioners, and towards struggling workers/families trying to afford a home, childcare or other bills.

    In other words, people in their 30s-40s, not those aged 55+, and people earning 15-35k, not those earning 50-80k.
    If this is right it would certainly fit in with her plans for grammar schools in less affluent areas. It would certainly be nice to see young working families on average salaries get some reward. The last 10 years haven't been a bed of roses.
    Good luck to her if she makes it work. I rather suspect that we'll end up chucking money at the baby boomers and people who aren't working,and with the new schools in middle class market towns as usual but it's nice to dream.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,480
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    SeanT said:

    JackW said:

    DanSmith said:
    Vote efficiency premium shot to pieces. Only London sees an area of many Labour seats generally holding off the surge. This could be a bloodbath.
    There is no doubt Labour are heading for a bloodbath. Only the scale of the massacre is to be determined.
    You can get 12/1 against Labour going under 100 seats...
    Under 100 Labour seats would be the Labour party in the political mortuary.

    However despite the Jezza death cult it's difficult to see Labour under 120 let alone 100. Some seats are resistant to the charms of the May death stare.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018

    Should I tear up those 10/1 betting slips which has Labour polling sub 20%?

    Yes. The Lib Dems aren't doing nearly well enough to make those winners I'm afraid. In fact I've laid some Labour sub 20 at 10-1 myself.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,060
    has this thread been overtaken by events?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018
    surbiton said:

    East Midlands:

    National swing: C 34, Lab 12

    Regional swing: C 35, Lab 11

    Mansfield goes Tory !


    My friend will give me a cake if it goes !
    With a fiver in the top.
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    marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Latest literature count here in Ceredigion - Lib dems 5, Plaid 1, Others 0
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    DanSmith said:
    Vote efficiency premium shot to pieces. Only London sees an area of many Labour seats generally holding off the surge. This could be a bloodbath.
    There is no doubt Labour are heading for a bloodbath. Only the scale of the massacre is to be determined.
    I fear source material for your pies is going be rather hard to come by, Jack....
    We will all have to make sacrifices in the coming years ....
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    dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Should I tear up those 10/1 betting slips which has Labour polling sub 20%?

    Frankly it would require a Lib Dem surge and convincing Labour voters not to bother to get sub 20 now, but crazier bets have come in. Or if a national disgust with Corbyn sets in which would require him to fall apart publicly on an emotive issue,
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018
    marke09 said:

    Latest literature count here in Ceredigion - Lib dems 5, Plaid 1, Others 0

    Good to hear. I've sold Plaid generally and would appreciate the yellow peril heading out to secure Mark Williams in place.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    West Midlands

    Regional swing: C 44, Lab 15

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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,761
    Freggles said:

    Scott_P said:
    Bish, Darlo, Poolies, Smoggie South & East Cleveland and mebbies some more. All going Blue. For feck's sake.
    Thank you for voting for Corbyn as leader in 2015.
    But not in 2016!
    Sandy, even in 2015 it was obvious that Jeremy is a proper Doyle.
    But the alternatives were a true-believer Blairite and two wet rags.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,060
    edited May 2017
    You know this song - replace 'Grim' with 'Tory'?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwtSdJaPCSI
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,981
    SeanT said:
    A result I regret and one that will cause us significant damage, but a vote is a vote and has to be respected. I am surprised there are so many people that do not accept that.

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    East of England:

    National swing: C 54, Lab 4

    Regional swing: C 54, Lab 3, LD 1

    Cambridge.

    One thing I am noticing from these regional polls. The Lib Dems are doing better than previously assumed. Have not resulted in too many extra seats though.

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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    surbiton said:

    Labour will win Ed South. The question is Ed North and Leigh. And, East Lothian.

    If you go to the Ashcroft survey more voters in Ed North and Leigh want JC as PM than TM. Not a usual result.

    EN&L is my seat, but I've not been here long enough to know it. The Tories are the only people I have received a general election leaflet from thus far, talking up their chances on the basis of the local election results.

    If you take the local election results as any sort of guide, Labour are far more likely to finish fourth than first in this seat. The local election results were consistent with the opinion polls that show the Conservatives advancing as Labour retreat.

    Why should Edinburgh North and Leith be any different?
    Edinburgh North & Leith voted 47% Yes, making it by far the largest Yes voting area of Edinburgh.

    It's a split personality constituency taking in as it does both the Port of Leith & Fettes collage, Pilton & Stockbridge. I do not see it going Labour.
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    With this regional breakdown the 9/4 available on Labour getting 100-149 seats looks like VALUE

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/total-seats-labour
    but but but

    every fibre of my being says that Labour can't get fewer than 150 seats. it's just not possible.

    Consider: the theory doing the rounds is that Labour are holding up because their voters don't want to give TMay a 200 seat majority.

    But imagine if you are a decent centre-lefty or a patriotic Labourite like, say, Southam, and you want your party back, and you want the Hard Left, Chavez-hugging, Hamas-loving IRA-honouring Corbynites gone, and gone for ever, after a defeat so bad even Jezbollah can't cling on, and the commies are routed forever. That means, at the very least, not voting Labour, this time.

    Meanwhile, TMay is offering lots of rather lefty sounding policies, and doesn't look so bad at all, and if anyone is going to handle Brexit "competently", it will be her, not Jeremy. These are actual reasons to vote FOR the Tories, for any Labourite who dislikes Corbyn.

    Labour's own voters are like a bunch of disgruntled football supporters who loathe their manager, and who would rather see the team take a terrible trashing, just this once, so he is forced to quit, than continue the constant trudge to permanent decline.

    A perfect electoral storm approaches Labour, they could go below 100. Personally, having thought they'd get 180-200 I now see it more like 150....
    But to use your analogy, while there may be Wenger out people who theoretically think that Arsenal getting a beating might have long term benefits, they wouldn't want the beating to come from Tottenham, and they certainly would throw up at the thought of actively cheering Tottenham, regardless of the long term implications.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,017
    Good afternoon, Miss JGP.

    Labour under 100 seats is Fourth Crusade territory.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,981
    surbiton said:

    West Midlands

    Regional swing: C 44, Lab 15

    You could not design a leader of a political party to be more repellent to voters in the Midlands than Jeremy Corbyn. The party tried to alienate its voter-base with Ed Miliband and got a fair level of success. But Jeremy takes things to a whole new level. It will be an absolute bloodbath for Labour here.
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    bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    Whilst we all obsess over the details...

    NONE of the top 10 most read BBC news stories are related to the general election.

    None.

    Hardly a surprise given that it's the dullest election in living memory.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,018
    @surbiton My switcher model derived from the latest Yougov tables resulted in a general increase in Lib Dem votes but a devastating effect on seats.

    Probably massively inaccurate but gaining a few thousand in the likes of East Ham and Ilford North won't do the Lib Dems any good whatsoever.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Freggles said:

    Scott_P said:
    Bish, Darlo, Poolies, Smoggie South & East Cleveland and mebbies some more. All going Blue. For feck's sake.
    Thank you for voting for Corbyn as leader in 2015.
    But not in 2016!
    Sandy, even in 2015 it was obvious that Jeremy is a proper Doyle.
    But the alternatives were a true-believer Blairite and two wet rags.
    Any of whom would have lost fewer seats than the Corbmeister.
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,819
    Pulpstar said:
    Indeed.
    If, when the voter was told just before going into the booth, "Think about your constituency", it might produce the same difference in real life as in the hypothetical. But normally, they'll be thinking about dinner, Coronation Street, whatever they were doing just before coming in, who they were chatting with on the way in, and be thinking simply about voting rather than specifically about their constituency.

    If they specifically haven't made up their mind until the polling booth (which is rare), then you might get a bit of a push in this direction when they see the names on the paper. But normally, they'll have decided beforehand and without being told to think specifically about the local contest.

    I'd say there might be a very small push in this direction - but I'd place the outcome to be somewhere between the unadjusted outcome and the "think about your constituency" outcome, and far, far closer to the former than the latter.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    London:

    Regional swing [ prior ]: C 30, Lab 39, LD 4

    Regional swing: C 30, Lab 39, LD 4

    It is the same poll , I think.

    Bermondsey is LD Majority = 139. I seriously doubt it.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,981
    PaulM said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    With this regional breakdown the 9/4 available on Labour getting 100-149 seats looks like VALUE

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/total-seats-labour
    but but but

    every fibre of my being says that Labour can't get fewer than 150 seats. it's just not possible.

    Consider: the theory doing the rounds is that Labour are holding up because their voters don't want to give TMay a 200 seat majority.

    But imagine if you are a decent centre-lefty or a patriotic Labourite like, say, Southam, and you want your party back, and you want the Hard Left, Chavez-hugging, Hamas-loving IRA-honouring Corbynites gone, and gone for ever, after a defeat so bad even Jezbollah can't cling on, and the commies are routed forever. That means, at the very least, not voting Labour, this time.

    Meanwhile, TMay is offering lots of rather lefty sounding policies, and doesn't look so bad at all, and if anyone is going to handle Brexit "competently", it will be her, not Jeremy. These are actual reasons to vote FOR the Tories, for any Labourite who dislikes Corbyn.

    Labour's own voters are like a bunch of disgruntled football supporters who loathe their manager, and who would rather see the team take a terrible trashing, just this once, so he is forced to quit, than continue the constant trudge to permanent decline.

    A perfect electoral storm approaches Labour, they could go below 100. Personally, having thought they'd get 180-200 I now see it more like 150....
    But to use your analogy, while there may be Wenger out people who theoretically think that Arsenal getting a beating might have long term benefits, they wouldn't want the beating to come from Tottenham, and they certainly would throw up at the thought of actively cheering Tottenham, regardless of the long term implications.

    It's not binary. I don't rate May, I think she is going to disappoint millions and millions of voters over the coming years and I will not vote for her. But there is no way on God's earth I am going to vote for a party led by Jeremy Corbyn.

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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,373
    bobajobPB said:

    Whilst we all obsess over the details...

    NONE of the top 10 most read BBC news stories are related to the general election.

    None.

    Hardly a surprise given that it's the dullest election in living memory.
    And an unnecessary one.
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    SeanT said:

    PaulM said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    With this regional breakdown the 9/4 available on Labour getting 100-149 seats looks like VALUE

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/total-seats-labour
    but but but

    every fibre of my being says that Labour can't get fewer than 150 seats. it's just not possible.

    Consider: the theory doing the rounds is that Labour are holding up because their voters don't want to give TMay a 200 seat majority.

    But imagine if you are a decent centre-lefty or a patriotic Labourite like, say, Southam, and you want your party back, and you want the Hard Left, Chavez-hugging, Hamas-loving IRA-honouring Corbynites gone, and gone for ever, after a defeat so bad even Jezbollah can't cling on, and the commies are routed forever. That means, at the very least, not voting Labour, this time.

    Meanwhile, TMay is offering lots of rather lefty sounding policies, and doesn't look so bad at all, and if anyone is going to handle Brexit "competently", it will be her, not Jeremy. These are actual reasons to vote FOR the Tories, for any Labourite who dislikes Corbyn.

    Labour's own voters are like a bunch of disgruntled football supporters who loathe their manager, and who would rather see the team take a terrible trashing, just this once, so he is forced to quit, than continue the constant trudge to permanent decline.

    A perfect electoral storm approaches Labour, they could go below 100. Personally, having thought they'd get 180-200 I now see it more like 150....
    But to use your analogy, while there may be Wenger out people who theoretically think that Arsenal getting a beating might have long term benefits, they wouldn't want the beating to come from Tottenham, and they certainly would throw up at the thought of actively cheering Tottenham, regardless of the long term implications.
    But Tottenham are rebranding as Theresa Hotspurs... and promising to help out with Arsenal's youth programme, grassroots football in Highbury, Etc.


    You know and I know that the average Gooner wouldn't buy that for a second.
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    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    surbiton said:

    East of England:

    National swing: C 54, Lab 4

    Regional swing: C 54, Lab 3, LD 1

    Cambridge.

    One thing I am noticing from these regional polls. The Lib Dems are doing better than previously assumed. Have not resulted in too many extra seats though.

    CON gain Norfolk North, LD gain Cambridge?
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    JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    What's a rule of thumb for a recount? How close does it have to be?

    If (OK big if, but still) the tories get 80% of UKIP votes from 2015 + a 10% direct Lab/Con swing in the NE, then Houghton and Sunderland South might just go TCTC

    That would screw their "first declaration" ambitions and make for a somewhat explosive start to the night....
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    Icarus said:

    One of Chris from Paris's 2 tips for PM has come in:

    https://twitter.com/yannikouts/status/864101620497494016

    A Prime Minister with a beard - whatever next!
    Some say they already have a president with one.....but I couldn't possibly comment.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    South East:

    National swing: C 81, Lab 2, GRN 1

    Regional swing: C 81, Lab 2, GRN 1

    despite much lower swing to the Tories

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,463

    SeanT said:
    The figures just about support sub 100 if voters turn it into a Get The Corbyn witch hunt, which an MSM campaign focusing on his dodgy associations might provoke.
    We live in interesting times.
    Not going to happen. As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, there will be automatic stabilisers which prevent Lab going too low, mainly the thought that people can vote Lab without any danger of getting a Lab govt.

    I did say 60-100 seats is about right although I might move that up a touch now to, say 70-120 (SWAG).
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    "Stop promoting liberal conspiracy theories on Twitter."

    https://newrepublic.com/minutes/142650/stop-promoting-liberal-conspiracy-theories-twitter

    "We have always told ourselves stories about what waits in the dark. It’s how we cope with uncertainty. But campfire tales are usually just that: tales. To find your way in the dark, you need something real. "
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,443
    Scott_P said:

    Everyone's a Tory now, canny lad....

    Howay, man
    We had the back of Maggie's hand,
    Times were tough in Geordie land.

    No longer it would seem.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    Just wondering when we are going to get the Panorama special digging around into leaders backgrounds? I mean with Call Me Dave they did enough of them they could have had their own series.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    A result I regret and one that will cause us significant damage, but a vote is a vote and has to be respected. I am surprised there are so many people that do not accept that.

    I was surprised, and disappointed, that the Remainers in Parliament did not unite around keeping the UK in the Single Market.

    In the aftermath of the referendum vote Labour MPs were more concerned with their failed putsch, than what would happen to the country, the Lib Dems were chasing their fantasy of aping the SNP and rallying die-hard remainers to their banner, and it looks like only Anna Soubry and Ken Clarke really believed in what they were saying during the referendum campaign.
This discussion has been closed.