Tactically Labour has probably played a blinder with its radical manifesto by making it much more difficult for the Tories to keep the focus on Brexit over the next four weeks. The public will be interested in the issues raised and a Tory response on the lines of 'strong and stable leadership' simply will not wash.
It is perfect for a full onslaught from the conservatives.
The policies would seriously damage the UK as we need a positive pro business government who will defend and promote UK business not hand over the business to the hard left controlled by the union barrons.
I would expect CCHQ to be delighted at the state of labour 4 weeks out of a GE and probably find a campaign advert with Corbyn, as a puppet, being manipulared by Mccluskey -
Salmond in 2015 - Mccluskey in 2017
I suspect you are being optimistic from a Tory perspective. Trade union leaders are nothing like as well known as back in the 70s and 80s and many people will be very sympathetic - partly based on their own work experiences - to the idea that the pendulum has swung too far to the employer at the expense of ordinary workers. One does not need to be particularly left wing at all to hold such a view.
Some truth in that but Theresa May will address the worst excesses.
But Mccluskey is something else. Corbyn has handed him control of the party and an 'economic car crash' is guaranteed if they got near being able to implement some of the barmy proposals they have come out with
You and I know who Len Mcluskey is, but I rather doubt that very many people have heard of him. Trade union leaders have long ceased to have the public exposure we recall from the days of Arthur Scargill, Jack Jones and Hugh Scanlon. How many people today would be able to name the TUC General Secretary? Very different from when George Woodcock , Vic Feather and Len Murray held the post.
I'd say that Bob Crow was the last well known union leader.
Pity he is dead, we need someone like that leading the Brexit negotiations. He would suck thier blood!
Elections don't work for us': Shocking footage shows Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell telling supporters to back 'insurrection'... as he accuses Tories of using film to 'push fake news'
Not principled old men, a Cancer in the labour party.
Well, this isn't surprising. People who don't respect democracy can't be let anywhere near power. No wonder so many Corbynistas cannot tolerate anyone who even marginally disagrees with them. This is where they get it from. And Corbynistas think these people represent 'Old Labour.' As if. A gift to the Tories this story is. Wouldn't be surprised to see their campaign posters advertise this. Also, terrible for British democracy as a whole to have these types of people at the heart of the opposition.
Probably a good tactic to use such footage, as what's the defence? 'Did you say it?' 'Yes, but' and you get into explanations.
Presumably why the cry just goes up as fake news and to ignore, rather than engage to rebut.
Tactically Labour has probably played a blinder with its radical manifesto by making it much more difficult for the Tories to keep the focus on Brexit over the next four weeks. The public will be interested in the issues raised and a Tory response on the lines of 'strong and stable leadership' simply will not wash.
It is perfect for a full onslaught from the conservatives.
The policies would seriously damage the UK as we need a positive pro business government who will defend and promote UK business not hand over the business to the hard left controlled by the union barrons.
I would expect CCHQ to be delighted at the state of labour 4 weeks out of a GE and probably find a campaign advert with Corbyn, as a puppet, being manipulared by Mccluskey -
Salmond in 2015 - Mccluskey in 2017
I suspect you are being optimistic from a Tory perspective. Trade union leaders are nothing like as well known as back in the 70s and 80s and many people will be very sympathetic - partly based on their own work experiences - to the idea that the pendulum has swung too far to the employer at the expense of ordinary workers. One does not need to be particularly left wing at all to hold such a view.
Some truth in that but Theresa May will address the worst excesses.
But Mccluskey is something else. Corbyn has handed him control of the party and an 'economic car crash' is guaranteed if they got near being able to implement some of the barmy proposals they have come out with
You and I know who Len Mcluskey is, but I rather doubt that very many people have heard of him. Trade union leaders have long ceased to have the public exposure we recall from the days of Arthur Scargill, Jack Jones and Hugh Scanlon. How many people today would be able to name the TUC General Secretary? Very different from when George Woodcock , Vic Feather and Len Murray held the post.
I'd say that Bob Crow was the last well known union leader.
Pity he is dead, we need someone like that leading the Brexit negotiations. He would suck thier blood!
I thought we wanted a collegiate approach, was that really Crow's speed? I thought his motto was 'If you fight you won't always win, but if you don't fight you will always lose', that is, pick fights? Obviously I'm not aware of the nitty gritty details of how he conducted negotiations of course.
She attacked Juncker with great effect and I think Corbyn is next . After all she has let them reveal their true hard left credentials and her own manifesto next week will put her into the spotlight at just the right time a few days before the postal votes.
Fox hunting though is a subject I do agree with her
Didn't she say she was for it or did I misread?
To be fair she did say a free vote would take place.
Tactically Labour has probably played a blinder with its radical manifesto by making it much more difficult for the Tories to keep the focus on Brexit over the next four weeks. The public will be interested in the issues raised and a Tory response on the lines of 'strong and stable leadership' simply will not wash.
It is perfect for a full onslaught from the conservatives.
The policies would seriously damage the UK as we need a positive pro business government who will defend and promote UK business not hand over the business to the hard left controlled by the union barrons.
I would expect CCHQ to be delighted at the state of labour 4 weeks out of a GE and probably find a campaign advert with Corbyn, as a puppet, being manipulared by Mccluskey -
Salmond in 2015 - Mccluskey in 2017
I suspect you are being optimistic from a Tory perspective. Trade union leaders are nothing like as well known as back in the 70s and 80s and many people will be very sympathetic - partly based on their own work experiences - to the idea that the pendulum has swung too far to the employer at the expense of ordinary workers. One does not need to be particularly left wing at all to hold such a view.
Some truth in that but Theresa May will address the worst excesses.
But Mccluskey is something else. Corbyn has handed him control of the party and an 'economic car crash' is guaranteed if they got near being able to implement some of the barmy proposals they have come out with
You and I know who Len Mcluskey is, but I rather doubt that very many people have heard of him. Trade union leaders have long ceased to have the public exposure we recall from the days of Arthur Scargill, Jack Jones and Hugh Scanlon. How many people today would be able to name the TUC General Secretary? Very different from when George Woodcock , Vic Feather and Len Murray held the post.
I think you might find that there is going to be a campaign led by the sun, mail, express, and telegraph that will hold no punches in their condemnation of the hard left move by Corbyn and Mccluskey.
Mrs May will have ownership of any attack campaign. What will that do to her Mrs Nice Vicar's Daughter image?
She doesn't seek to project one, that's just an attack line; she has never claimed ownership of a special kind of moral compass.
Agree. Admirable. But could "oh, not so nice, then" = lost votes?
The problem for the progressive alliance is the following: - All of these progressive parties, with the exception of the SNP have awful leadership - These parties have no idea what their purpose is in a post-2008, post-coalition world with the exception of the SNP and to a degree the LDs (pro EU/anti-Brexit party)
The progressive alliance was thing and actually worked pre-2010, when at least one of the main centre-left parties (generally both Labour and the LDs) had electable leaders, especially in the mid 90s - mid 2000s.
@BethRigby: CCHQ says it "categorically untrue" candidates picked based on Brexit views. But @DanielJHannan failure to make list 4 Aldershot raises ??..
She attacked Juncker with great effect and I think Corbyn is next . After all she has let them reveal their true hard left credentials and her own manifesto next week will put her into the spotlight at just the right time a few days before the postal votes.
Fox hunting though is a subject I do agree with her
Didn't she say she was for it or did I misread?
To be fair she did say a free vote would take place.
Just noticed I said I agree with her.
That is wrong as I do not want fox hunting back on the agenda.
Interesting to note that Cameron is campaigning explicitly urging people to vote for a large Tory majority to allow May to face down those pursuing an "extreme" Brexit. Is this his own initiative or with the tacit backing of the Prime Minister?
Interesting to note that Cameron is campaigning explicitly urging people to vote for a large Tory majority to allow May to face down those pursuing an "extreme" Brexit. Is this his own initiative or with the tacit backing of the Prime Minister?
Hopefully someone will ask her directly that. Seems like the kind of line they would not mind being mooted, but as it comes from a former PM who can reasonably be thought to have his own views on the subject, it can be disavowed if it causes a negative reaction.
The problem for the progressive alliance is the following: - All of these progressive parties, with the exception of the SNP have awful leadership - These parties have no idea what their purpose is in a post-2008, post-coalition world with the exception of the SNP and to a degree the LDs (pro EU/anti-Brexit party)
The progressive alliance was thing and actually worked pre-2010, when at least one of the parties (generally both) had electable leaders, especially in the mid 90s - mid 2000s.
How would you define the progressive alliance as an idea, if I might ask? As I am still struggling with it, you see, given the inclusion of quite extreme parties to potentially defeat moderates, just moderates on the centre-right. Is the idea mostly about social progessiveness, anti-austerity?
Elections don't work for us': Shocking footage shows Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell telling supporters to back 'insurrection'... as he accuses Tories of using film to 'push fake news'
Not principled old men, a Cancer in the labour party.
Well, this isn't surprising. People who don't respect democracy can't be let anywhere near power. No wonder so many Corbynistas cannot tolerate anyone who even marginally disagrees with them. This is where they get it from. And Corbynistas think these people represent 'Old Labour.' As if. A gift to the Tories this story is. Wouldn't be surprised to see their campaign posters advertise this. Also, terrible for British democracy as a whole to have these types of people at the heart of the opposition.
Probably a good tactic to use such footage, as what's the defence? 'Did you say it?' 'Yes, but' and you get into explanations.
Presumably why the cry just goes up as fake news and to ignore, rather than engage to rebut.
McDonnell is actually much more terrifying than Corbyn, who is just basically useless. He's what happens when people start to think that an ideology is more important than human beings.
@BethRigby: CCHQ says it "categorically untrue" candidates picked based on Brexit views. But @DanielJHannan failure to make list 4 Aldershot raises ??..
Ah so that's why the Conservatives were 1-14 there. Was wondering that. The voters in Aldershot won't think "Ooh Hannan not on the ballot, best vote for Corbyn's man"...
Tactically Labour has probably played a blinder with its radical manifesto by making it much more difficult for the Tories to keep the focus on Brexit over the next four weeks. The public will be interested in the issues raised and a Tory response on the lines of 'strong and stable leadership' simply will not wash.
It is perfect for a full onslaught from the conservatives.
The policies would seriously damage the UK as we need a positive pro business government who will defend and promote UK business not hand over the business to the hard left controlled by the union barrons.
I would expect CCHQ to be delighted at the state of labour 4 weeks out of a GE and probably find a campaign advert with Corbyn, as a puppet, being manipulared by Mccluskey -
Salmond in 2015 - Mccluskey in 2017
I suspect you are being optimistic from a Tory perspective. Trade union leaders are nothing like as well known as back in the 70s and 80s and many people will be very sympathetic - partly based on their own work experiences - to the idea that the pendulum has swung too far to the employer at the expense of ordinary workers. One does not need to be particularly left wing at all to hold such a view.
Some truth in that but Theresa May will address the worst excesses.
But Mccluskey is something else. Corbyn has handed him control of the party and an 'economic car crash' is guaranteed if they got near being able to implement some of the barmy proposals they have come out with
Yothe post.
I think you might find that there is going to be a campaign led by the sun, mail, express, and telegraph that will hold no punches in their condemnation of the hard left move by Corbyn and Mccluskey.
Mrs May will have ownership of any attack campaign. What will that do to her Mrs Nice Vicar's Daughter image?
She doesn't seek to project one, that's just an attack line; she has never claimed ownership of a special kind of moral compass.
Agree. Admirable. But could "oh, not so nice, then" = lost votes?
She is happy to be known as a bloody difficult woman. That doesn't translate directly to leading an attack campaign, but it suggests a certain harshness, in appropriate circumstances, that people might accept even in such a campaign.
Agree. Admirable. But could "oh, not so nice, then" = lost votes?
Depends whether she is regarded widely as scoring high on niceness in the first place. To me, she has always come across as someone who was prepared to (horrible Brownism!) make "tough choices" when needed.
Elections don't work for us': Shocking footage shows Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell telling supporters to back 'insurrection'... as he accuses Tories of using film to 'push fake news'
Not principled old men, a Cancer in the labour party.
Well, this isn't surprising. People who don't respect democracy can't be let anywhere near power. No wonder so many Corbynistas cannot tolerate anyone who even marginally disagrees with them. This is where they get it from. And Corbynistas think these people represent 'Old Labour.' As if. A gift to the Tories this story is. Wouldn't be surprised to see their campaign posters advertise this. Also, terrible for British democracy as a whole to have these types of people at the heart of the opposition.
Probably a good tactic to use such footage, as what's the defence? 'Did you say it?' 'Yes, but' and you get into explanations.
Presumably why the cry just goes up as fake news and to ignore, rather than engage to rebut.
McDonnell is actually much more terrifying than Corbyn, who is just basically useless. He's what happens when people start to think that an ideology is more important than human beings.
He will also lie and bend to convince people he isn't what he has said on camera and will twist policy to make it sound more appealing. Jezza on the other hand is not only useless idiot he can't deviate from what he believes in even a millimetre.
Tactically Labour has probably played a blinder with its radical manifesto by making it much more difficult for the Tories to keep the focus on Brexit over the next four weeks. The public will be interested in the issues raised and a Tory response on the lines of 'strong and stable leadership' simply will not wash.
It is perfect for a full onslaught from the conservatives.
The policies would seriously damage the UK as we need a positive pro business government who will defend and promote UK business not hand over the business to the hard left controlled by the union barrons.
I would expect CCHQ to be delighted at the state of labour 4 weeks out of a GE and probably find a campaign advert with Corbyn, as a puppet, being manipulared by Mccluskey -
Salmond in 2015 - Mccluskey in 2017
I suspect you are being optimistic from a Tory perspective view.
Some truth in that but Theresa May will address the worst excesses.
But Mccluskey is something else. Corbyn has handed him control of the party and an 'economic car crash' is guaranteed if they got near being able to implement some of the barmy proposals they have come out with
You and I know who Len Mcluskey is, but I rather doubt that very many people have heard of him. Trade union leaders have long ceased to have the public exposure we recall from the days of Arthur Scargill, Jack Jones and Hugh Scanlon. How many people today would be able to name the TUC General Secretary? Very different from when George Woodcock , Vic Feather and Len Murray held the post.
I'd say that Bob Crow was the last well known union leader.
Pity he is dead, we need someone like that leading the Brexit negotiations. He would suck thier blood!
I thought we wanted a collegiate approach, was that really Crow's speed? I thought his motto was 'If you fight you won't always win, but if you don't fight you will always lose', that is, pick fights? Obviously I'm not aware of the nitty gritty details of how he conducted negotiations of course.
Just look at the wages and conditions that he got for his members. He walked all over the opposition, then wiped his feet on them.
I love his quote on the power of being in a union:
"Spit on your own and you can't do anything, but if you all spit together you can drown the bastards"
The problem for the progressive alliance is the following: - All of these progressive parties, with the exception of the SNP have awful leadership - These parties have no idea what their purpose is in a post-2008, post-coalition world with the exception of the SNP and to a degree the LDs (pro EU/anti-Brexit party)
The progressive alliance was thing and actually worked pre-2010, when at least one of the parties (generally both) had electable leaders, especially in the mid 90s - mid 2000s.
How would you define the progressive alliance as an idea, if I might ask? As I am still struggling with it, you see, given the inclusion of quite extreme parties to potentially defeat moderates, just moderates on the centre-right. Is the idea mostly about social progessiveness, anti-austerity?
Anti-austerity is very much of a 'now' issue (and tbf will be an issue for the forseeable future), whereas the idea of a progressive alliance goes back some way before 2008 crash - there was a period prior to the coalition and especially during the Charles Kennedy years, during which Labour supporters saw the LDs as their allies.
I'd say the progressive alliance is in the main centres around a common belief in social democracy/liberalism etc. It should avoid including the extreme parties - the most left wing they should go is the Greens really. Social democracy/liberalism is generally the common thread between all of these centre-left parties - Labour, SNP, LDs, Greens etc.
She attacked Juncker with great effect and I think Corbyn is next . After all she has let them reveal their true hard left credentials and her own manifesto next week will put her into the spotlight at just the right time a few days before the postal votes.
Fox hunting though is a subject I do agree with her
Didn't she say she was for it or did I misread?
To be fair she did say a free vote would take place.
Just noticed I said I agree with her.
That is wrong as I do not want fox hunting back on the agenda.
Still suffering jet lag by the looks of it
Cool. I'm not happy about Grammar schools either....although my mother came up through one and she was from a working class background so it feels like ladder removal.
She attacked Juncker with great effect and I think Corbyn is next . After all she has let them reveal their true hard left credentials and her own manifesto next week will put her into the spotlight at just the right time a few days before the postal votes.
Fox hunting though is a subject I do agree with her
Didn't she say she was for it or did I misread?
To be fair she did say a free vote would take place.
Just noticed I said I agree with her.
That is wrong as I do not want fox hunting back on the agenda.
Still suffering jet lag by the looks of it
Cool. I'm not happy about Grammar schools either....although my mother came up through one and she was from a working class background so it feels like ladder removal.
I went to Grammar and was coached for the 11+ by my Mother - this was in 1955.
Today I would support Grammars if access was fairer and lots of disadvantaged children were admitted
Elections don't work for us': Shocking footage shows Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell telling supporters to back 'insurrection'... as he accuses Tories of using film to 'push fake news'
Not principled old men, a Cancer in the labour party.
Well, this isn't surprising. People who don't respect democracy can't be let anywhere near power. No wonder so many Corbynistas cannot tolerate anyone who even marginally disagrees with them. This is where they get it from. And Corbynistas think these people represent 'Old Labour.' As if. A gift to the Tories this story is. Wouldn't be surprised to see their campaign posters advertise this. Also, terrible for British democracy as a whole to have these types of people at the heart of the opposition.
Probably a good tactic to use such footage, as what's the defence? 'Did you say it?' 'Yes, but' and you get into explanations.
Presumably why the cry just goes up as fake news and to ignore, rather than engage to rebut.
McDonnell is actually much more terrifying than Corbyn, who is just basically useless. He's what happens when people start to think that an ideology is more important than human beings.
He will also lie and bend to convince people he isn't what he has said on camera and will twist policy to make it sound more appealing. Jezza on the other hand is not only useless idiot he can't deviate from what he believes in even a millimetre.
So McDonnell and Theresa May have something in common perhaps - both being compulsive liars?
Interesting to note that Cameron is campaigning explicitly urging people to vote for a large Tory majority to allow May to face down those pursuing an "extreme" Brexit. Is this his own initiative or with the tacit backing of the Prime Minister?
May's game plan is to signal Hard Brexit to kill UKIP and get a large Majority then sideline her now totally impotent head bangers and go soft killing Scottish Indy Ref 2 stone dead.
Comments
Presumably why the cry just goes up as fake news and to ignore, rather than engage to rebut.
- All of these progressive parties, with the exception of the SNP have awful leadership
- These parties have no idea what their purpose is in a post-2008, post-coalition world with the exception of the SNP and to a degree the LDs (pro EU/anti-Brexit party)
The progressive alliance was thing and actually worked pre-2010, when at least one of the main centre-left parties (generally both Labour and the LDs) had electable leaders, especially in the mid 90s - mid 2000s.
That is wrong as I do not want fox hunting back on the agenda.
Still suffering jet lag by the looks of it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39890248
NEW THREAD
Only £100 but the large amount looking to back at 1.07 earlier has now all gone.
Good poll coming for Lab?
I love his quote on the power of being in a union:
"Spit on your own and you can't do anything, but if you all spit together you can drown the bastards"
I'd say the progressive alliance is in the main centres around a common belief in social democracy/liberalism etc. It should avoid including the extreme parties - the most left wing they should go is the Greens really. Social democracy/liberalism is generally the common thread between all of these centre-left parties - Labour, SNP, LDs, Greens etc.
Today I would support Grammars if access was fairer and lots of disadvantaged children were admitted
Possibly.