Interesting table, S Lab aren't putting up candidates in 3 councils! (But its the 3 island councils so normal I think?)
I'm actually confused as there seem less candidates overall than I would have expected.
Even the SNP is only putting up 627 out of 1227, 51.1% and that's the highest by a long way.
Is it harder to get people nominated in Scotland that England and wales? or is the AV system encouraging parties to tactically stand down? or are all the parties struggling to find people to stand? or something else I have not noticed?
All the parties are pretty conservative when it comes to standing multiple members in wards. It is very rare for a party to put up enough candidates to take all the seats in a ward.
Back Fillon to win the French Presidential Election with Sportingbet at 5.50
Lay him to lose the French Presidential Election with Betfair Exchange at 4.50 = 4.74 after 5% commission.
Roll up, roll up, this can't last!
DYOR.
Good bet. Odds now cut to 4.3 (someone checked betfair!) but not before I got £100 on.
I was seriously beginning to wonder whether anyone was going to take up this opportunity to make a tax free, risk free 20% profit, with just a few clicks on a computer keyboard .... and this is supposed to be a political betting site .... oh dearie me!
Back Fillon to win the French Presidential Election with Sportingbet at 5.50
Lay him to lose the French Presidential Election with Betfair Exchange at 4.50 = 4.74 after 5% commission.
Roll up, roll up, this can't last!
DYOR.
Good bet. Odds now cut to 4.3 (someone checked betfair!) but not before I got £100 on.
I was seriously beginning to wonder whether anyone was going to take up this opportunity to make a tax free, risk free 20% profit, with just a few clicks on a computer keyboard .... and this is supposed to be a political betting site .... oh dearie me!
Normally the £7.71 on isn't worth it, surprised they let me have £100. I noticed it earlier, only came back to it when you mentioned it. Thanks.
Even as someone who does not fully believe the high tory figures, I have to ask - what are the 18-24s seeing in Corbyn that they still put Labour above the Tories?
Aren't old enough to remember the 70s, when most of Jezza's policies were last tested to destruction.
Or it could be that they are utterly appalled by the nasty Tory policies and Tory attitudes that go with them. To such an extent, that even Mr Corbyn`s Labour Party seems preferable.
Yes, but the question is why the 18-24 year old ones are the only group who are so appalled - you presumably think they are nasty to everyone, except pensioners, but only the18-24 year olds are sticking with Corbyn. Nastiness of the Tories, even if true, does not explain it on its own.
I think the younger age groups are repelled by the Tories, because they are being hit by them here and now. Older age groups are still giving the Tories the benefit of the doubt over the Brexit negotiations. People still cling to the idea that the Tories are going to deliver on whatever policy it was that moved them to vote for Leave. It won`t last, of course, because the Tories are in an entirely contradictory position, which makes it impossible for them to satisfy everybody. The most they can hope for is to satisfy Murdoch - and that would be another turn-off for most voters.
How many right-wing teachers are there? How many right-wing lecturers?
The education system drills it into kids that the Tories are nasty and evil. University is little better but fortunately it's about the age you start to think for yourself.
Once you're out in the big wide world you realise the solutions offered by the left are naive and simplistic at best and begin the inexorable journey towards more pragmatic and less ideologically driven answers to the problems of the day.
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
Even as someone who does not fully believe the high tory figures, I have to ask - what are the 18-24s seeing in Corbyn that they still put Labour above the Tories?
Aren't old enough to remember the 70s, when most of Jezza's policies were last tested to destruction.
Or it could be that they are utterly appalled by the nasty Tory policies and Tory attitudes that go with them. To such an extent, that even Mr Corbyn`s Labour Party seems preferable.
Yes, but the question is why the 18-24 year old ones are the only group who are so appalled - you presumably think they are nasty to everyone, except pensioners, but only the18-24 year olds are sticking with Corbyn. Nastiness of the Tories, even if true, does not explain it on its own.
I think the younger age groups are repelled by the Tories, because they are being hit by them here and now. Older age groups are still giving the Tories the benefit of the doubt over the Brexit negotiations. People still cling to the idea that the Tories are going to deliver on whatever policy it was that moved them to vote for Leave. It won`t last, of course, because the Tories are in an entirely contradictory position, which makes it impossible for them to satisfy everybody. The most they can hope for is to satisfy Murdoch - and that would be another turn-off for most voters.
How many right-wing teachers are there? How many right-wing lecturers?
The education system drills it into kids that the Tories are nasty and evil. University is little better but fortunately it's about the age you start to think for yourself.
Once you're out in the big wide world you realise the solutions offered by the left are naive and simplistic at best and begin the inexorable journey towards more pragmatic and less ideologically driven answers to the problems of the day.
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
How many openly Con?
It seems to be socially acceptable to preach left wing views to students but not right wing ones.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
More fundamentally it's a microcosm of why there's little rationale for leaving the EU at all given that ongoing membership of the EMA implies that we will still be subject to binding decisions by the European Commission.
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
It's part of the innate right wing desire for Victimhood. A fantasy is constructed where the whole world is against them. Even when they are in power it's only due to heroic struggle against the shadowy forces of left wingers who secretly control everything.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
It's part of the innate right wing desire for Victimhood. A fantasy is constructed where the whole world is against them. Even when they are in power it's only due to heroic struggle against the shadowy forces of left wingers who secretly control everything.
Even as someone who does not fully believe the high tory figures, I have to ask - what are the 18-24s seeing in Corbyn that they still put Labour above the Tories?
Aren't old enough to remember the 70s, when most of Jezza's policies were last tested to destruction.
Or it could be that they are utterly appalled by the nasty Tory policies and Tory attitudes that go with them. To such an extent, that even Mr Corbyn`s Labour Party seems preferable.
Yes, but the question is why the 18-24 year old ones are the only group who are so appalled - you presumably think they are nasty to everyone, except pensioners, but only the18-24 year olds are sticking with Corbyn. Nastiness of the Tories, even if true, does not explain it on its own.
I think the younger age groups are repelled by the Tories, because they are being hit by them here and now. Older age groups are still giving the Tories the benefit of the doubt over the Brexit negotiations. People still cling to the idea that the Tories are going to deliver on whatever policy it was that moved them to vote for Leave. It won`t last, of course, because the Tories are in an entirely contradictory position, which makes it impossible for them to satisfy everybody. The most they can hope for is to satisfy Murdoch - and that would be another turn-off for most voters.
How many right-wing teachers are there? How many right-wing lecturers?
The education system drills it into kids that the Tories are nasty and evil. University is little better but fortunately it's about the age you start to think for yourself.
Once you're out in the big wide world you realise the solutions offered by the left are naive and simplistic at best and begin the inexorable journey towards more pragmatic and less ideologically driven answers to the problems of the day.
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
More fundamentally it's a microcosm of why there's little rationale for leaving the EU at all given that ongoing membership of the EMA implies that we will still be subject to binding decisions by the European Commission.
If the EU was just about the EMA then I'm sure Remain would have one by a landslide.
Even as someone who does not fully believe the high tory figures, I have to ask - what are the 18-24s seeing in Corbyn that they still put Labour above the Tories?
Aren't old enough to remember the 70s, when most of Jezza's policies were last tested to destruction.
Or it could be that they are utterly appalled by the nasty Tory policies and Tory attitudes that go with them. To such an extent, that even Mr Corbyn`s Labour Party seems preferable.
Yes, but the question is why the 18-24 year old ones are the only group who are so appalled - you presumably think they are nasty to everyone, except pensioners, but only the18-24 year olds are sticking with Corbyn. Nastiness of the Tories, even if true, does not explain it on its own.
I think the younger age groups are repelled by the Tories, because they are being hit by them here and now. Older age groups are still giving the Tories the benefit of the doubt over the Brexit negotiations. People still cling to the idea that the Tories are going to deliver on whatever policy it was that moved them to vote for Leave. It won`t last, of course, because the Tories are in an entirely contradictory position, which makes it impossible for them to satisfy everybody. The most they can hope for is to satisfy Murdoch - and that would be another turn-off for most voters.
How many right-wing teachers are there? How many right-wing lecturers?
The education system drills it into kids that the Tories are nasty and evil. University is little better but fortunately it's about the age you start to think for yourself.
Once you're out in the big wide world you realise the solutions offered by the left are naive and simplistic at best and begin the inexorable journey towards more pragmatic and less ideologically driven answers to the problems of the day.
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
It is true that there in the Universities and HE there is a strong left-wing influence. As for teachers the louder voices are usually very left-wing but in actual real elections there is a strongish Conservative vote. Opinion polls before the last GE suggested Labour were well ahead with the profession.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
More fundamentally it's a microcosm of why there's little rationale for leaving the EU at all given that ongoing membership of the EMA implies that we will still be subject to binding decisions by the European Commission.
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
It's part of the innate right wing desire for Victimhood. A fantasy is constructed where the whole world is against them. Even when they are in power it's only due to heroic struggle against the shadowy forces of left wingers who secretly control everything.
Oh dear - fantasy is not confined to the right clearly.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
Even as someone who does not fully believe the high tory figures, I have to ask - what are the 18-24s seeing in Corbyn that they still put Labour above the Tories?
Aren't old enough to remember the 70s, when most of Jezza's policies were last tested to destruction.
Or it could be that they are utterly appalled by the nasty Tory policies and Tory attitudes that go with them. To such an extent, that even Mr Corbyn`s Labour Party seems preferable.
Yes, but the question is why the 18-24 year old ones are the only group who are so appalled - you presumably think they are nasty to everyone, except pensioners, but only the18-24 year olds are sticking with Corbyn. Nastiness of the Tories, even if true, does not explain it on its own.
I think the younger age groups are repelled by the Tories, because they are being hit by them here and now. Older age groups are still giving the Tories the benefit of the doubt over the Brexit negotiations. People still cling to the idea that the Tories are going to deliver on whatever policy it was that moved them to vote for Leave. It won`t last, of course, because the Tories are in an entirely contradictory position, which makes it impossible for them to satisfy everybody. The most they can hope for is to satisfy Murdoch - and that would be another turn-off for most voters.
How many right-wing teachers are there? How many right-wing lecturers?
The education system drills it into kids that the Tories are nasty and evil. University is little better but fortunately it's about the age you start to think for yourself.
Once you're out in the big wide world you realise the solutions offered by the left are naive and simplistic at best and begin the inexorable journey towards more pragmatic and less ideologically driven answers to the problems of the day.
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
Re: Scottish candidates. You lot should all become converts to backing STV for UK elections. Its depth and complexity knocks FPTnP into the park; would keep this forum occupied forever debating the thinking behind the thinking.
Re: Teachers. I know it's a Bank Holiday but some of you are too far down the bottle for 4 in the afternoon.
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
I'm not saying that _every_ teacher is a Trot, indoctrinating our kids with Marxist ideology, but the links I've provided above show a pretty clear pattern, namely that the teaching profession is overwhelmingly left leaning and that tellingly, if you're a right-wing teacher you are more likely to shut up about it.
It is much like the BBC - I'm not the kind of frothing right wing nutter who goes on about it being a Marxist mouthpiece or anything like that, but there is clear systemic bias that overwhelmingly and unconsciously favours one world view. It is overwhelmingly the world view that kids are exposed to until they leave uni and embark on their journey into the real world with all its problems that require pragmatic solutions that socialist ideology can't fix.
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
Only one country will pick up the base, the remaining 26 pick up the bill.
I'm not saying that _every_ teacher is a Trot, indoctrinating our kids with Marxist ideology, but the links I've provided above show a pretty clear pattern, namely that the teaching profession is overwhelmingly left leaning and that tellingly, if you're a right-wing teacher you are more likely to shut up about it.
It is much like the BBC - I'm not the kind of frothing right wing nutter who goes on about it being a Marxist mouthpiece or anything like that, but there is clear systemic bias that overwhelmingly and unconsciously favours one world view. It is overwhelmingly the world view that kids are exposed to until they leave uni and embark on their journey into the real world with all its problems that require pragmatic solutions that socialist ideology can't fix.
There is a huge leap between asserting the political leanings of teachers, mostly in a profession for vocation rather than money, and suggesting that in between teaching the government's national curriculum and doing a whole load of lesson planning, on the side they are somehow influencing the voting habits of an entire cohort of 18-24 year olds for years thereafter, which is frankly ludicrous. If teachers were so influential on young people's opinions, a lot of other problems would have gone away.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
Only one country will pick up the base, the remaining 26 pick up the bill.
Do you want a friendly bet on where the headquarters of the EMA are on 01 January 2020 (assuming UK does leave EU)?
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control.
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
Only one country will pick up the base, the remaining 26 pick up the bill.
Do you want a friendly bet on where the headquarters of the EMA are on 01 January 2020 (assuming UK does leave EU)?
It will be somewhere in the EU at that date I would guess, unless you are suggesting it will remain in the UK?
The key point is that the majority of the 27 (by a margin of 26 to 1) will prioritise getting out of the long term rental cost rather than gaining jobs when arranging/negotiating the departure.
There is a huge leap between asserting the political leanings of teachers, mostly in a profession for vocation rather than money, and suggesting that in between teaching the government's national curriculum and doing a whole load of lesson planning, on the side they are somehow influencing the voting habits of an entire cohort of 18-24 year olds for years thereafter, which is frankly ludicrous. If teachers were so influential on young people's opinions, a lot of other problems would have gone away.
Absolutely, I agree.
It's not a conspiracy or far-left plot, it is simply an unconscious bias in the system that exposes children and young adults to more left-leaning ideas than right-leaning ones.
What I'm trying to do is explain why young adults are more socialist, and I think that's partly down to being exposed to more left-wing views than right-wing ones, but also recognising as you get older that life is about compromises and the capitalist system we've got is, in many respects, the 'least worst'.
IMHO Corbyn's unbending socialist ideology can only appeal to the sort of people who indulge in naive fantasy economics, which most people grow out of as they get older. Pragmatism rules the day for most of us.
Blair understood this and won three elections with a kind of compassionate capitalism. I think the Lib Dems could easily supplant Corbynite Labour and do the same.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
Only one country will pick up the base, the remaining 26 pick up the bill.
Do you want a friendly bet on where the headquarters of the EMA are on 01 January 2020 (assuming UK does leave EU)?
It will be somewhere in the EU at that date I would guess, unless you are suggesting it will remain in the UK?
The key point is that the majority of the 27 (by a margin of 26 to 1) will prioritise getting out of the bill rather than gaining jobs in arranging/negotiating the departure.
I'm saying it will be somewhere in the EU yes. The key point i am making is that those suggesting it will stay in the UK are being unrealistic.
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control. /blockquote>
As a vague generalisation, that seems reasonable enough. In practice, Mrs May and her colleagues are taking decisions for short-term reasons (narrow party advantage) that will do irreparable harm to the long-term interests of the country. Nobody voted for what she is now intending to do to us.
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
More fundamentally it's a microcosm of why there's little rationale for leaving the EU at all given that ongoing membership of the EMA implies that we will still be subject to binding decisions by the European Commission.
Eu-fanatics like you don't get it.
A binding decision of the ECJ on a practical matter like a ruling of the EMA matters not a jot.
The UK being outvoted on QMV or caught by ECJ judicial creep is important
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
Only one country will pick up the base, the remaining 26 pick up the bill.
Do you want a friendly bet on where the headquarters of the EMA are on 01 January 2020 (assuming UK does leave EU)?
It will be somewhere in the EU at that date I would guess, unless you are suggesting it will remain in the UK?
The key point is that the majority of the 27 (by a margin of 26 to 1) will prioritise getting out of the bill rather than gaining jobs in arranging/negotiating the departure.
I'm saying it will be somewhere in the EU yes. The key point i am making is that those suggesting it will stay in the UK are being unrealistic.
I think it's improbable and certainly wouldn't be the EU's wish.
The practicalities of setting up an office for 1,000 staff and then finding a location that a very diverse, multinational workforce are happy to relocate to may be problematic in some way.
I wonder at what point the smaller and more peripheral nations will notice that the EU's 'City' gains from Brexit all seem to be landing in very few places in the EU.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
We'd need to give something for it, of course. Even an unnecessary cost of £250m wouldn't believe bother the politicians
I think it's improbable and certainly wouldn't be the EU's wish.
The practicalities of setting up an office for 1,000 staff and then finding a location that a very diverse, multinational workforce are happy to relocate to may be problematic in some way.
I wonder at what point the smaller and more peripheral nations will notice that the EU's 'City' gains from Brexit all seem to be landing in very few places in the EU.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
Only one country will pick up the base, the remaining 26 pick up the bill.
Do you want a friendly bet on where the headquarters of the EMA are on 01 January 2020 (assuming UK does leave EU)?
Stockholm would be the best (apart from London) but I doubt it will end up there!
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
Only one country will pick up the base, the remaining 26 pick up the bill.
Do you want a friendly bet on where the headquarters of the EMA are on 01 January 2020 (assuming UK does leave EU)?
Stockholm would be the best (apart from London) but I doubt it will end up there!
Sorry wasn't clear... You take London... I take the EU. If they move it to San Francisco the bet is off!
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control.
So you are calling for on-going referenda?
Referendums
Are you sure?
I believe that some on this board have very strong opinions on the subject based on (varying) dead language abilities.
From memory TSE/Mike have adopted a thread header policy too.
Also from memory - if this topic kicks off as it has done before - we will all regret it.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
The rationale would be... Oh look here are 1,000 jobs that can come to our country directly and will surely bring some more indirectly with it.
Only one country will pick up the base, the remaining 26 pick up the bill.
Do you want a friendly bet on where the headquarters of the EMA are on 01 January 2020 (assuming UK does leave EU)?
Stockholm would be the best (apart from London) but I doubt it will end up there!
Sorry wasn't clear... You take London... I take the EU. If they move it to San Francisco the bet is off!
Nah. I don't really bet because the returns on capital aren't attractive enough.
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control.
So you are calling for on-going referenda?
Referendums
Are you sure?
I believe that some on this board have very strong opinions on the subject based on (varying) dead language abilities.
From memory TSE/Mike have adopted a thread header policy too.
Also from memory - if this topic kicks off as it has done before - we will all regret it.
Wkipedia says it’s -s, so I suppose it must be right.
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control.
So you are calling for on-going referenda?
Referendums
Are you sure?
I believe that some on this board have very strong opinions on the subject based on (varying) dead language abilities.
From memory TSE/Mike have adopted a thread header policy too.
Also from memory - if this topic kicks off as it has done before - we will all regret it.
Wkipedia says it’s -s, so I suppose it must be right.
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
It's part of the innate right wing desire for Victimhood. A fantasy is constructed where the whole world is against them. Even when they are in power it's only due to heroic struggle against the shadowy forces of left wingers who secretly control everything.
See also the all-powerful gynocracy oppressing put-upon, tyrannised bruvvas everywhere.
Mr. L, the odds have frequently seemed out of kilter with the polling. Starting from scratch, one would make it almost equal odds for the four contenders.
Mr. L, the odds have frequently seemed out of kilter with the polling. Starting from scratch, one would make it almost equal odds for the four contenders.
Interesting table, S Lab aren't putting up candidates in 3 councils! (But its the 3 island councils so normal I think?)
I'm actually confused as there seem less candidates overall than I would have expected.
Even the SNP is only putting up 627 out of 1227, 51.1% and that's the highest by a long way.
Is it harder to get people nominated in Scotland that England and wales? or is the AV system encouraging parties to tactically stand down? or are all the parties struggling to find people to stand? or something else I have not noticed?
It's not particularly harder to get nominated, with there being a fair number of independent candidates standing.
I think the STV system does mean parties have to be cautious around how many candidates they put up per ward, typically you'd only put up the number of candidates who have some prospect of winning after transfers. That said, this doesn't explain why the likes of Scottish LibDems are fielding no candidates in councils other than the traditional independent councils in a number of the islands. The lack of candidates could well be a factor - if so, that'd be deeply worrying for any party in this position.
All parties have difficulty finding candidates, particularly once those with the wrong reasons for standing have been weeded out. I suspect it is lack of organisation, and/or tradition leading key people to stand as independents - something much more common in rural rUK in the old days (for example in the West Country).
The Scottish Lib Dems have areas of massive strength and areas where there are hardly any members/activists. The Western half of the central belt has always been particularly weak for the party (apart from Greenock & East Dunbartonshire). In some areas all it takes is for a few key members to move away or get involved in other things and you can end up with no organisation at all.
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control.
So you are calling for on-going referenda?
Referendums
Are you sure?
I believe that some on this board have very strong opinions on the subject based on (varying) dead language abilities.
From memory TSE/Mike have adopted a thread header policy too.
Also from memory - if this topic kicks off as it has done before - we will all regret it.
Wkipedia says it’s -s, so I suppose it must be right.
Yeah. Referenda are the same question again and again. So maybe he was right after all
How do you know? Have you got proof or is this your fantasy? At GE2010 more teachers voted CON than LAB.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
It's part of the innate right wing desire for Victimhood. A fantasy is constructed where the whole world is against them. Even when they are in power it's only due to heroic struggle against the shadowy forces of left wingers who secretly control everything.
It's not a right or left wing desire. The particulars of the victimhood differ, but people love feeling put upon. Bunch of snowflakes, the whole lot.
There is a huge leap between asserting the political leanings of teachers, mostly in a profession for vocation rather than money, and suggesting that in between teaching the government's national curriculum and doing a whole load of lesson planning, on the side they are somehow influencing the voting habits of an entire cohort of 18-24 year olds for years thereafter, which is frankly ludicrous. If teachers were so influential on young people's opinions, a lot of other problems would have gone away.
Absolutely, I agree.
It's not a conspiracy or far-left plot, it is simply an unconscious bias in the system that exposes children and young adults to more left-leaning ideas than right-leaning ones.
What I'm trying to do is explain why young adults are more socialist, and I think that's partly down to being exposed to more left-wing views than right-wing ones, but also recognising as you get older that life is about compromises and the capitalist system we've got is, in many respects, the 'least worst'.
IMHO Corbyn's unbending socialist ideology can only appeal to the sort of people who indulge in naive fantasy economics, which most people grow out of as they get older. Pragmatism rules the day for most of us.
Blair understood this and won three elections with a kind of compassionate capitalism. I think the Lib Dems could easily supplant Corbynite Labour and do the same.
You are over-complicating things. When you have dreams and ideals but not property or money, you lean left. When you have property and money but, dreams and ideals, not so much, you lean right. When you have a governing party pandering to the elderly, those on the other end of the deal aren't likely to be quite so impressed. Teachers have nothing whatsoever to do with it.
The Scottish Lib Dems have areas of massive strength and areas where there are hardly any members/activists. The Western half of the central belt has always been particularly weak for the party (apart from Greenock & East Dunbartonshire). In some areas all it takes is for a few key members to move away or get involved in other things and you can end up with no organisation at all.
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
Yeah, Scotland is the one part of the UK where the LibDems have always had a very efficiently-distributed vote, and where FPTP works very much in their favour: witness 1997 where they came a pretty distant 4th in votes in Scotland, yet came 2nd on seats.
The Scottish Lib Dems have areas of massive strength and areas where there are hardly any members/activists. The Western half of the central belt has always been particularly weak for the party (apart from Greenock & East Dunbartonshire). In some areas all it takes is for a few key members to move away or get involved in other things and you can end up with no organisation at all.
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
Yeah, Scotland is the one part of the UK where the LibDems have always had a very efficiently-distributed vote, and where FPTP works very much in their favour: witness 1997 where they came a pretty distant 4th in votes in Scotland, yet came 2nd on seats.
They were even more well distributed in the Holyrood elections last year. Their vote barely budged, but they won two more FPTP constituencies at a canter*.
* And were there an election tomorrow, I'd expect them to pick up the Westminster versions of both these constituencies (NE Fife, Edinburgh West) from the SNP.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
More fundamentally it's a microcosm of why there's little rationale for leaving the EU at all given that ongoing membership of the EMA implies that we will still be subject to binding decisions by the European Commission.
Eu-fanatics like you don't get it.
A binding decision of the ECJ on a practical matter like a ruling of the EMA matters not a jot.
The UK being outvoted on QMV or caught by ECJ judicial creep is important
If Brexit leads to the break up of the UK, will you see it as having been futile? In the long run do you want to see a Europe without the EU?
The Scottish Lib Dems have areas of massive strength and areas where there are hardly any members/activists. The Western half of the central belt has always been particularly weak for the party (apart from Greenock & East Dunbartonshire). In some areas all it takes is for a few key members to move away or get involved in other things and you can end up with no organisation at all.
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
Yeah, Scotland is the one part of the UK where the LibDems have always had a very efficiently-distributed vote, and where FPTP works very much in their favour: witness 1997 where they came a pretty distant 4th in votes in Scotland, yet came 2nd on seats.
They were even more well distributed in the Holyrood elections last year. Their vote barely budged, but they won two more FPTP constituencies at a canter*.
* And were there an election tomorrow, I'd expect them to pick up the Westminster versions of both these constituencies (NE Fife, Edinburgh West) from the SNP.
There is the best possible reason for Leaving the EU...
How on earth is the Brexit coalition going to hold together throughout these negotiations? Brexit was promised to be many different things, but in reality there can only be one, and most of the people who voted for it are going to hate it.
That's for democracy to resolve. We can elect a government that prioritised one thing, or another party that prioritised another. But it will be our choice and our control.
So you are calling for on-going referenda?
Referendums
Are you sure?
I believe that some on this board have very strong opinions on the subject based on (varying) dead language abilities.
From memory TSE/Mike have adopted a thread header policy too.
Also from memory - if this topic kicks off as it has done before - we will all regret it.
Wkipedia says it’s -s, so I suppose it must be right.
Yeah. Referenda are the same question again and again. So maybe he was right after all
Actually I need to self-correct, since misleading PB colleagues must be some sort of offence. I guess ?
An addendum is an item to be added and addenda are a set of such items. Agendum an item to be discussed and agenda a set. Memorandum an item to be noted or remembered, referendum an item to be referred (to the people). Referenda are therefore a set of items to be referred (together), hence a multi-question referendum. Agendas are multiple agenda for a series of meetings or, if there is only one item for each meeting, agendums. Hence referendums are for a series of referred (single) questions. Also worth noting that it isn't a Latin word in the first place, having been conjured up for the first time by the Swiss (as I vaguely recall) in the 18th or 19th century.
Even as someone who does not fully believe the high tory figures, I have to ask - what are the 18-24s seeing in Corbyn that they still put Labour above the Tories?
Aren't old enough to remember the 70s, when most of Jezza's policies were last tested to destruction.
Or it could be that they are utterly appalled by the nasty Tory policies and Tory attitudes that go with them. To such an extent, that even Mr Corbyn`s Labour Party seems preferable.
go on then - which attitudes and policies are they.
Shall we talk of Labour party attitudes?
Lets not bother about the Lib Dems as they change depending on the audience - I say that as someone who has voted Lib Dems more than I have voted Tory.
The tories are the best of the bunch right now, happens to be the case that the voters seem to agree.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
More fundamentally it's a microcosm of why there's little rationale for leaving the EU at all given that ongoing membership of the EMA implies that we will still be subject to binding decisions by the European Commission.
Eu-fanatics like you don't get it.
A binding decision of the ECJ on a practical matter like a ruling of the EMA matters not a jot.
The UK being outvoted on QMV or caught by ECJ judicial creep is important
If Brexit leads to the break up of the UK, will you see it as having been futile? In the long run do you want to see a Europe without the EU?
I don't deal in hypotheticals - I don't believe the UK will break up. But if the Scots choose to leave that's up to them.
As for Europe I want to see independent states cooperating across the continent. If some of those states choose to oil their sovereignty then, again, that's a matter for their respective voters
The Scottish Lib Dems have areas of massive strength and areas where there are hardly any members/activists. The Western half of the central belt has always been particularly weak for the party (apart from Greenock & East Dunbartonshire). In some areas all it takes is for a few key members to move away or get involved in other things and you can end up with no organisation at all.
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
Yeah, Scotland is the one part of the UK where the LibDems have always had a very efficiently-distributed vote, and where FPTP works very much in their favour: witness 1997 where they came a pretty distant 4th in votes in Scotland, yet came 2nd on seats.
They were even more well distributed in the Holyrood elections last year. Their vote barely budged, but they won two more FPTP constituencies at a canter*.
* And were there an election tomorrow, I'd expect them to pick up the Westminster versions of both these constituencies (NE Fife, Edinburgh West) from the SNP.
NE Fife, Mings old seat, probably yes. Edinburgh West much more difficult. The Lib Dems are bleeding support to the Tories in the capital.
You are over-complicating things. When you have dreams and ideals but not property or money, you lean left. When you have property and money but, dreams and ideals, not so much, you lean right. When you have a governing party pandering to the elderly, those on the other end of the deal aren't likely to be quite so impressed. Teachers have nothing whatsoever to do with it.
I don't find anything particularly complicated about drawing a line between the variety of views you are exposed to and your own personal viewpoint and how that evolves over time.
I sort of see it as a personal Overton window that widens with age (and also tacks right), which is why I find the whole safe space and no platform and SJW thing that has overtaken universities in the last few years so disturbing.
In fact, you illustrate a good point by mentioning dreams and ideals.
One of the failings of the right has always been in conceding the moral ground. We say "well, in a perfect world with hopes and dreams we'd all be socialist, but we have to be pragmatic so here's capitalism".
One of the things the left is terrified of (if my social feeds are anything to go by) is the way the right is no longer willing to cede the moral ground and is willing to argue that no, it is right wing ideology that is moral and just and left wing ideology that is destructive and harmful.
I am not saying it is, by the way. Just making an observation about where the argument seems to be trending in the social media age.
The Scottish Lib Dems have areas of massive strength and areas where there are hardly any members/activists. The Western half of the central belt has always been particularly weak for the party (apart from Greenock & East Dunbartonshire). In some areas all it takes is for a few key members to move away or get involved in other things and you can end up with no organisation at all.
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
Yeah, Scotland is the one part of the UK where the LibDems have always had a very efficiently-distributed vote, and where FPTP works very much in their favour: witness 1997 where they came a pretty distant 4th in votes in Scotland, yet came 2nd on seats.
They were even more well distributed in the Holyrood elections last year. Their vote barely budged, but they won two more FPTP constituencies at a canter*.
* And were there an election tomorrow, I'd expect them to pick up the Westminster versions of both these constituencies (NE Fife, Edinburgh West) from the SNP.
Edinburgh West a gain from Independent surely?
As compared to the 2015 election, it's a gain from SNP :-)
The Scottish Lib Dems have areas of massive strength and areas where there are hardly any members/activists. The Western half of the central belt has always been particularly weak for the party (apart from Greenock & East Dunbartonshire). In some areas all it takes is for a few key members to move away or get involved in other things and you can end up with no organisation at all.
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
Yeah, Scotland is the one part of the UK where the LibDems have always had a very efficiently-distributed vote, and where FPTP works very much in their favour: witness 1997 where they came a pretty distant 4th in votes in Scotland, yet came 2nd on seats.
They were even more well distributed in the Holyrood elections last year. Their vote barely budged, but they won two more FPTP constituencies at a canter*.
* And were there an election tomorrow, I'd expect them to pick up the Westminster versions of both these constituencies (NE Fife, Edinburgh West) from the SNP.
Edinburgh West a gain from Independent surely?
As compared to the 2015 election, it's a gain from SNP :-)
The Scottish Lib Dems have areas of massive strength and areas where there are hardly any members/activists. The Western half of the central belt has always been particularly weak for the party (apart from Greenock & East Dunbartonshire). In some areas all it takes is for a few key members to move away or get involved in other things and you can end up with no organisation at all.
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
Yeah, Scotland is the one part of the UK where the LibDems have always had a very efficiently-distributed vote, and where FPTP works very much in their favour: witness 1997 where they came a pretty distant 4th in votes in Scotland, yet came 2nd on seats.
They were even more well distributed in the Holyrood elections last year. Their vote barely budged, but they won two more FPTP constituencies at a canter*.
* And were there an election tomorrow, I'd expect them to pick up the Westminster versions of both these constituencies (NE Fife, Edinburgh West) from the SNP.
NE Fife, Mings old seat, probably yes. Edinburgh West much more difficult. The Lib Dems are bleeding support to the Tories in the capital.
The Conservative vote dipped, albeit marginally, last year in Edinburgh Western (which is 80% of the parliamentary Edinburgh West constituency), while the LDs increased 14% (almost all at the expense of Labour).
It wasn't even particularly close: 42% for the LDs vs 34% for the SNP.
I think it's improbable and certainly wouldn't be the EU's wish.
The practicalities of setting up an office for 1,000 staff and then finding a location that a very diverse, multinational workforce are happy to relocate to may be problematic in some way.
I wonder at what point the smaller and more peripheral nations will notice that the EU's 'City' gains from Brexit all seem to be landing in very few places in the EU.
Fancy betting a fiver on it then?
I'll have a fiver on it being in Europe. I don't really expect it to stay over here.
Seems like the authorities haven't a f##king clue...but appeared they have now ruled out the claims of right wing extremists as also being fake and not the culprits.
You are over-complicating things. When you have dreams and ideals but not property or money, you lean left. When you have property and money but, dreams and ideals, not so much, you lean right. When you have a governing party pandering to the elderly, those on the other end of the deal aren't likely to be quite so impressed. Teachers have nothing whatsoever to do with it.
I don't find anything particularly complicated about drawing a line between the variety of views you are exposed to and your own personal viewpoint and how that evolves over time.
I sort of see it as a personal Overton window that widens with age (and also tacks right), which is why I find the whole safe space and no platform and SJW thing that has overtaken universities in the last few years so disturbing.
In fact, you illustrate a good point by mentioning dreams and ideals.
One of the failings of the right has always been in conceding the moral ground. We say "well, in a perfect world with hopes and dreams we'd all be socialist, but we have to be pragmatic so here's capitalism".
One of the things the left is terrified of (if my social feeds are anything to go by) is the way the right is no longer willing to cede the moral ground and is willing to argue that no, it is right wing ideology that is moral and just and left wing ideology that is destructive and harmful.
I am not saying it is, by the way. Just making an observation about where the argument seems to be trending in the social media age.
There is probably something in what you say, noting of course that changing the battlefield doesn't win the original battle.
The Scottish Lib Dems have areas of massive strength and areas where there are hardly any members/activists. The Western half of the central belt has always been particularly weak for the party (apart from Greenock & East Dunbartonshire). In some areas all it takes is for a few key members to move away or get involved in other things and you can end up with no organisation at all.
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
Yeah, Scotland is the one part of the UK where the LibDems have always had a very efficiently-distributed vote, and where FPTP works very much in their favour: witness 1997 where they came a pretty distant 4th in votes in Scotland, yet came 2nd on seats.
They were even more well distributed in the Holyrood elections last year. Their vote barely budged, but they won two more FPTP constituencies at a canter*.
* And were there an election tomorrow, I'd expect them to pick up the Westminster versions of both these constituencies (NE Fife, Edinburgh West) from the SNP.
NE Fife, Mings old seat, probably yes. Edinburgh West much more difficult. The Lib Dems are bleeding support to the Tories in the capital.
The Conservative vote dipped, albeit marginally, last year in Edinburgh Western (which is 80% of the parliamentary Edinburgh West constituency), while the LDs increased 14% (almost all at the expense of Labour).
It wasn't even particularly close: 42% for the LDs vs 34% for the SNP.
The LibDems improved their vote share in Lothian regional list in 2016 compared to 2011.
I don't know where DavidL is getting his impression from.
MoE but has the Melenchon momentum finally run out of steam?
Maybe, too early to tell. I would probably be a bit wary of this one poll as it was done on Easter Sunday and Bank Holiday Monday. That could cause discrepancies.
LDs are historically rubbish at handing seats on to a new candidate. Once the incumbent goes, the whole show goes to pot. But the big exception to this rule is Edinburgh West - Donald Gorrie, John Barrett and Mike Crockart all sat as Lib Dems, one after the other. That implies (for Lib Dems, at any rate) a constituency organisation running like a Swiss watch.
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
More fundamentally it's a microcosm of why there's little rationale for leaving the EU at all given that ongoing membership of the EMA implies that we will still be subject to binding decisions by the European Commission.
Eu-fanatics like you don't get it.
A binding decision of the ECJ on a practical matter like a ruling of the EMA matters not a jot.
The UK being outvoted on QMV or caught by ECJ judicial creep is important
If Brexit leads to the break up of the UK, will you see it as having been futile? In the long run do you want to see a Europe without the EU?
I don't deal in hypotheticals - I don't believe the UK will break up. But if the Scots choose to leave that's up to them.
As for Europe I want to see independent states cooperating across the continent. If some of those states choose to oil their sovereignty then, again, that's a matter for their respective voters
I know it is bad form to pick up on typos, but I thought that was a beauty (assuming it was a typo of course).
Seems like the authorities haven't a f##king clue...but appeared they have now ruled out the claims of right wing extremists as also being fake and not the culprits.
Other groups with a possible motive cited in German media reports include criminal betting syndicates or a foreign intelligence service trying to destabilise the political climate ahead of federal elections in September.
Which foreign intelligence service could they have in mind?
Seems like the authorities haven't a f##king clue...but appeared they have now ruled out the claims of right wing extremists as also being fake and not the culprits.
Other groups with a possible motive cited in German media reports include criminal betting syndicates or a foreign intelligence service trying to destabilise the political climate ahead of federal elections in September.
Which foreign intelligence service could they have in mind?
I know Trump and Merkel don't get along, but seems a bit extreme...
< (I wouldn't be surprised to see the UK remain in the EMA and it to remain in London. Or to have a mutual recognition arrangement. There's little merit to having a separate approval process)
I would be stunned if the EMA stays in London if we leave it. As i said on a previous thread... We might as well ask them to move the European parliament here.
Even Jeremy Hunt thinks it's going and we are leaving the EMA.
If we leave the EMA, yes.
But there is a decent rationale for remaining a member of the EMA (even if only an associate member). If we are not a member, then I'd agree, it won't be located in London (even if we have MRP).
If the UK remains a member/associate member then there is little rationale for crystalising a Eur 250m liability for moving.
Even if what you say is true, there's little rationale for shifting the EU parliament between Brussels and Strasbourg either, but they still do it
More fundamentally it's a microcosm of why there's little rationale for leaving the EU at all given that ongoing membership of the EMA implies that we will still be subject to binding decisions by the European Commission.
Eu-fanatics like you don't get it.
A binding decision of the ECJ on a practical matter like a ruling of the EMA matters not a jot.
The UK being outvoted on QMV or caught by ECJ judicial creep is important
If Brexit leads to the break up of the UK, will you see it as having been futile? In the long run do you want to see a Europe without the EU?
I don't deal in hypotheticals - I don't believe the UK will break up. But if the Scots choose to leave that's up to them.
As for Europe I want to see independent states cooperating across the continent. If some of those states choose to oil their sovereignty then, again, that's a matter for their respective voters
I know it is bad form to pick up on typos, but I thought that was a beauty (assuming it was a typo of course).
Autocorrect rather than a typo but it was too good to change
Seems like the authorities haven't a f##king clue...but appeared they have now ruled out the claims of right wing extremists as also being fake and not the culprits.
Other groups with a possible motive cited in German media reports include criminal betting syndicates or a foreign intelligence service trying to destabilise the political climate ahead of federal elections in September.
Which foreign intelligence service could they have in mind?
"Jeremy Corbyn’s office has made a formal complaint about a Labour MP after he questioned the party’s communications strategy. Neil Coyle said he will not be “intimidated” after the “absurd” complaint was made against him to party officials. The Bermondsey and Old Southwark MP was reported after he raised concerns about an apparent lack of Brexit briefings for MPs and the party’s slow response to breaking news stories. He has accused allies of Mr Corbyn of trying to silence the leader’s critics."
Seems like the authorities haven't a f##king clue...but appeared they have now ruled out the claims of right wing extremists as also being fake and not the culprits.
Other groups with a possible motive cited in German media reports include criminal betting syndicates or a foreign intelligence service trying to destabilise the political climate ahead of federal elections in September.
Which foreign intelligence service could they have in mind?
Seems like the authorities haven't a f##king clue...but appeared they have now ruled out the claims of right wing extremists as also being fake and not the culprits.
Other groups with a possible motive cited in German media reports include criminal betting syndicates or a foreign intelligence service trying to destabilise the political climate ahead of federal elections in September.
Which foreign intelligence service could they have in mind?
Bloody hell, good job I have an alibi!
With a name like yours you must either be a member of s criminal betting syndicate or MI5*
Seems like the authorities haven't a f##king clue...but appeared they have now ruled out the claims of right wing extremists as also being fake and not the culprits.
Other groups with a possible motive cited in German media reports include criminal betting syndicates or a foreign intelligence service trying to destabilise the political climate ahead of federal elections in September.
Which foreign intelligence service could they have in mind?
?!?!?!
Jesus.
Do we just have a list and you cross them off?
Jesus' intelligence service would be the Vatican so are you implying that we are dealing with the Illuminati and that RCS needs to change his surname from Smithson to Langdon?
Comments
To be fair, I think there's been a lot more betting here lately, not only with F1 but the by-elections and French presidency too.
Yours is the sort of comment that drives me to despair.
It seems to be socially acceptable to preach left wing views to students but not right wing ones.
Well done Plymouth Argyle.
Re: Teachers. I know it's a Bank Holiday but some of you are too far down the bottle for 4 in the afternoon.
Feels very tight but seems as though she is dropping....
Some stats:
2017 - Survey finds 80% of university lecturers left leaning
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/03/02/eight-ten-british-university-lecturers-left-wing-survey-finds/
2015 election - public sector workers 20 points more likely to vote Labour (up from 16 in 2010)
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/06/08/general-election-2015-how-britain-really-voted/
2015 election - Support for Tories among teachers fell to 29%
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/who-should-i-vote-for-as-a-teacher-teachers-shun-the-coalition-after-years-of-michael-gove-10189930.html
Some anecdotes:
2016 "To survive as a Tory teacher, you have to keep quiet"
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/to-survive-as-a-tory-teacher-you-have-to-keep-quiet/
2015 "There are a lot more quietly Tory teachers than you think"
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/may/18/lot-more-tory-teachers-than-think-vote-conservative
I'm not saying that _every_ teacher is a Trot, indoctrinating our kids with Marxist ideology, but the links I've provided above show a pretty clear pattern, namely that the teaching profession is overwhelmingly left leaning and that tellingly, if you're a right-wing teacher you are more likely to shut up about it.
It is much like the BBC - I'm not the kind of frothing right wing nutter who goes on about it being a Marxist mouthpiece or anything like that, but there is clear systemic bias that overwhelmingly and unconsciously favours one world view. It is overwhelmingly the world view that kids are exposed to until they leave uni and embark on their journey into the real world with all its problems that require pragmatic solutions that socialist ideology can't fix.
The key point is that the majority of the 27 (by a margin of 26 to 1) will prioritise getting out of the long term rental cost rather than gaining jobs when arranging/negotiating the departure.
It's not a conspiracy or far-left plot, it is simply an unconscious bias in the system that exposes children and young adults to more left-leaning ideas than right-leaning ones.
What I'm trying to do is explain why young adults are more socialist, and I think that's partly down to being exposed to more left-wing views than right-wing ones, but also recognising as you get older that life is about compromises and the capitalist system we've got is, in many respects, the 'least worst'.
IMHO Corbyn's unbending socialist ideology can only appeal to the sort of people who indulge in naive fantasy economics, which most people grow out of as they get older. Pragmatism rules the day for most of us.
Blair understood this and won three elections with a kind of compassionate capitalism. I think the Lib Dems could easily supplant Corbynite Labour and do the same.
The key point i am making is that those suggesting it will stay in the UK are being unrealistic.
https://twitter.com/europeelects/status/854003812545310721
A binding decision of the ECJ on a practical matter like a ruling of the EMA matters not a jot.
The UK being outvoted on QMV or caught by ECJ judicial creep is important
The practicalities of setting up an office for 1,000 staff and then finding a location that a very diverse, multinational workforce are happy to relocate to may be problematic in some way.
I wonder at what point the smaller and more peripheral nations will notice that the EU's 'City' gains from Brexit all seem to be landing in very few places in the EU.
If they move it to San Francisco the bet is off!
From memory TSE/Mike have adopted a thread header policy too.
Also from memory - if this topic kicks off as it has done before - we will all regret it.
Polls don't seem to show much movement.
Amongst over 35s it is Fillon 23%, Macron 23%, Le Pen 22%, Melenchon 17%
64% of under 35s are likely to vote and 36% not, compared to 72% of over 35s likely to vote and 28% not
http://dataviz.ifop.com:8080/IFOP_ROLLING/IFOP_17-04-2017.pdf
That being said, the Scottish LDs should be able to make decent gains in the traditional strongholds where they're the best organised opposition to the SNP. My feeling is that the Tories are going to make significant progress elsewhere and Labour are going to have an unpleasant night. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in terms of control of the councils.
I've never been a fan of pathos over logos, and the current climate only strengthens my view.
Mr. Pulpstar, well, equal to get through to round two.
New 9-1 GCSE grades 'creating uncertainty for schools'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39620604
Not the kids, the adults...
I've got Fillon at ~+0 now anyhow.
* And were there an election tomorrow, I'd expect them to pick up the Westminster versions of both these constituencies (NE Fife, Edinburgh West) from the SNP.
What odds Le Pen, vs Macron and vs Fillon in the next round? Let's assume the minimum of change to the current polls for the 1st round result.
Elabe
Macron 24 (+0.5)
Le Pen 23 ( +0.5)
Fillon 19.5 (-0.5)
Melenchon 18 (-0.5)
Not much movement, but the gap is the widest we have seen for a while between the top and bottom 2
http://elabe.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/17042017_bfmtv_lexpress_intentions-de-vote-presidentielles-vague-9.pdf
An addendum is an item to be added and addenda are a set of such items. Agendum an item to be discussed and agenda a set. Memorandum an item to be noted or remembered, referendum an item to be referred (to the people). Referenda are therefore a set of items to be referred (together), hence a multi-question referendum. Agendas are multiple agenda for a series of meetings or, if there is only one item for each meeting, agendums. Hence referendums are for a series of referred (single) questions. Also worth noting that it isn't a Latin word in the first place, having been conjured up for the first time by the Swiss (as I vaguely recall) in the 18th or 19th century.
Shall we talk of Labour party attitudes?
Lets not bother about the Lib Dems as they change depending on the audience - I say that as someone who has voted Lib Dems more than I have voted Tory.
The tories are the best of the bunch right now, happens to be the case that the voters seem to agree.
As for Europe I want to see independent states cooperating across the continent. If some of those states choose to oil their sovereignty then, again, that's a matter for their respective voters
I sort of see it as a personal Overton window that widens with age (and also tacks right), which is why I find the whole safe space and no platform and SJW thing that has overtaken universities in the last few years so disturbing.
In fact, you illustrate a good point by mentioning dreams and ideals.
One of the failings of the right has always been in conceding the moral ground. We say "well, in a perfect world with hopes and dreams we'd all be socialist, but we have to be pragmatic so here's capitalism".
One of the things the left is terrified of (if my social feeds are anything to go by) is the way the right is no longer willing to cede the moral ground and is willing to argue that no, it is right wing ideology that is moral and just and left wing ideology that is destructive and harmful.
I am not saying it is, by the way. Just making an observation about where the argument seems to be trending in the social media age.
It wasn't even particularly close: 42% for the LDs vs 34% for the SNP.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/17/borussia-dortmund-blasts-letters-claiming-responsibility-fake
I don't know where DavidL is getting his impression from.
Which foreign intelligence service could they have in mind?
Jesus.
Do we just have a list and you cross them off?
Neil Coyle said he will not be “intimidated” after the “absurd” complaint was made against him to party officials.
The Bermondsey and Old Southwark MP was reported after he raised concerns about an apparent lack of Brexit briefings for MPs and the party’s slow response to breaking news stories.
He has accused allies of Mr Corbyn of trying to silence the leader’s critics."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/17/labour-mp-reported-party-officials-jeremy-corbyns-office-communications/
Surely: "Good job I'm not a criminal"?
* although not mutually exclusive, I suppose