From about the late medieval period the average English peasant enjoyed a life considerably more comfortable, in almost all ways, than the average continental European. Or indeed the modern day African.
That article's a bit out of date for the Indian per capita figures, nevertheless, here's something a little worrying for all of us involved in the Knowledge Economy: look at the rates going for (experienced and well-qualified) Indians working in Big Data analytics, machine learning, predictive modeling etc. About 80 rupees to the pound, so the high-end jobs at "1200K" actually mean £15K, and the lower-level jobs - nevertheless requiring up to six years of experience - at "300K" or "400k" are £4k to £5k...
Also note just how many of those are given in dollars, or have locations split between India and the US. Lots of US tech workers are upset about Indian guys coming over on visas and rotating between the places. At these rates you can see why - no way to compete on price with that lot.
(I'm also told that rates for skilled techies in Eastern Europe, even in pretty poor places like Romania or Bulgaria, are pretty good now, particularly because of the rise in remote working. Quite a lot are very comfortable living over there on near-US wages facing well-below-US costs of living. Perhaps Indian high-skill workers will get there in a decade or two. But doesn't look like it's happening just yet!)
That was SeanT's quote not mine.
Sincere apologies, completely cocked up the quote-editing.
Best of luck with broadening the diet, incidentally! (Not sure if you noticed all the cookery-related tips that were left for you - do hope the beans are not going to be a permanent fixture, or that your comment may have been somewhat in jest. If it were serious, then a serious response - you're a smart chap with some proper analytical skills. You should be being paid more.)
I accept that you'd have been happy to accept his support, but you'll just have to accept we're not the same. If he's thick enough to turn up to campaign in Scotland, he'll be told forcibly to jog on, probably by large groups of Indy supporting protestors.
I just think for myself, it is you who said you would rather Scotland stayed with us than win with the support of undesirables... nows your chance to take the leap!! ☺☺
I think we'll have polls showing Le Pen beating Fillon in round 2...
Macron looks like he's craving a fix.
Having Melenchon and Hamon there just gives Le Pen a foil.
Yes, at the moment it looks like Le Pen's night but we will see
In terms of the debate, definitely Le Pen and Melenchon stealing the show. Poor night for Macron. Hamon and Fillon a bit 'unnecessary'.
I think we may see a slight rise for Melenchon at the expense of Hamon. Macron may fall back slightly but not sure where his supporters will go, as Fillon hasn't done anything to redeem himself either.
I accept that you'd have been happy to accept his support, but you'll just have to accept we're not the same. If he's thick enough to turn up to campaign in Scotland, he'll be told forcibly to jog on, probably by large groups of Indy supporting protestors.
I just think for myself, it is you who said you would rather Scotland stayed with us than win with the support of undesirables... nows your chance to take the leap!! ☺☺
If I had a fine UK pound for every righty uncontaminated by an original thought who says that they think for themselves...
Though just as undesirable, Dowson would have even less influence than Nige in any referendum, he really is that irrelevant.
I think we'll have polls showing Le Pen beating Fillon in round 2...
Macron looks like he's craving a fix.
Having Melenchon and Hamon there just gives Le Pen a foil.
Yes, at the moment it looks like Le Pen's night but we will see
In terms of the debate, definitely Le Pen and Melenchon stealing the show. Poor night for Macron. Hamon and Fillon a bit 'unnecessary'.
I think we may see a slight rise for Melenchon at the expense of Hamon. Macron may fall back slightly but not sure where his supporters will go, as Fillon hasn't done anything to redeem himself either.
really French corbyn goes down well in france?
For me, Hamon is more the Corbyn character - a bit 'wet' hard left, if that makes any sense. Melenchon has a fiestyness that makes him seem a bit more like Bernie Sanders.
I accept that you'd have been happy to accept his support, but you'll just have to accept we're not the same. If he's thick enough to turn up to campaign in Scotland, he'll be told forcibly to jog on, probably by large groups of Indy supporting protestors.
I just think for myself, it is you who said you would rather Scotland stayed with us than win with the support of undesirables... nows your chance to take the leap!! ☺☺
If I had a fine UK pound for every righty uncontaminated by an original thought who says that they think for themselves...
Though just as undesirable, Dowson would have even less influence than Nige in any referendum, he really is that irrelevant.
I look forward to seeing you keep to your word and cross the floor! I can tell you don't really want to leave ☺☺☺
I think we'll have polls showing Le Pen beating Fillon in round 2...
Macron looks like he's craving a fix.
Having Melenchon and Hamon there just gives Le Pen a foil.
Yes, at the moment it looks like Le Pen's night but we will see
In terms of the debate, definitely Le Pen and Melenchon stealing the show. Poor night for Macron. Hamon and Fillon a bit 'unnecessary'.
I think we may see a slight rise for Melenchon at the expense of Hamon. Macron may fall back slightly but not sure where his supporters will go, as Fillon hasn't done anything to redeem himself either.
really French corbyn goes down well in france?
For me, Hamon is more the Corbyn character - a bit 'wet' hard left, if that makes any sense. Melenchon has a fiestyness that makes him seem a bit more like Bernie Sanders.
Melénchon believes France needs a(nother) revolution, that's all you need to know.
I think we'll have polls showing Le Pen beating Fillon in round 2...
Macron looks like he's craving a fix.
Having Melenchon and Hamon there just gives Le Pen a foil.
Yes, at the moment it looks like Le Pen's night but we will see
In terms of the debate, definitely Le Pen and Melenchon stealing the show. Poor night for Macron. Hamon and Fillon a bit 'unnecessary'.
I think we may see a slight rise for Melenchon at the expense of Hamon. Macron may fall back slightly but not sure where his supporters will go, as Fillon hasn't done anything to redeem himself either.
really French corbyn goes down well in france?
For me, Hamon is more the Corbyn character - a bit 'wet' hard left, if that makes any sense. Melenchon has a fiestyness that makes him seem a bit more like Bernie Sanders.
Melénchon believes France needs a(nother) revolution, that's all you need to know.
What is it with the French thinking revolutions are always the answer?
I accept that you'd have been happy to accept his support, but you'll just have to accept we're not the same. If he's thick enough to turn up to campaign in Scotland, he'll be told forcibly to jog on, probably by large groups of Indy supporting protestors.
I just think for myself, it is you who said you would rather Scotland stayed with us than win with the support of undesirables... nows your chance to take the leap!! ☺☺
If I had a fine UK pound for every righty uncontaminated by an original thought who says that they think for themselves...
Though just as undesirable, Dowson would have even less influence than Nige in any referendum, he really is that irrelevant.
The boy is a conduit, thats all. He certainly wouldn't have an original thought in the head. In the big scheme of things here, not one dent of an impact, not even for 6 months. Small time fringe merchant looking for the big time.
Doesn't mean some of his associates are not a potential problem though.
I think we'll have polls showing Le Pen beating Fillon in round 2...
Macron looks like he's craving a fix.
Having Melenchon and Hamon there just gives Le Pen a foil.
Yes, at the moment it looks like Le Pen's night but we will see
In terms of the debate, definitely Le Pen and Melenchon stealing the show. Poor night for Macron. Hamon and Fillon a bit 'unnecessary'.
I think we may see a slight rise for Melenchon at the expense of Hamon. Macron may fall back slightly but not sure where his supporters will go, as Fillon hasn't done anything to redeem himself either.
really French corbyn goes down well in france?
For me, Hamon is more the Corbyn character - a bit 'wet' hard left, if that makes any sense. Melenchon has a fiestyness that makes him seem a bit more like Bernie Sanders.
Melénchon believes France needs a(nother) revolution, that's all you need to know.
What is it with the French thinking revolutions are always the answer?
They've had plenty of them, haven't they? The funny thing is, if they don't like the current state of their country, that suggests that revolutions are, in fact, not necessarily a good way to drive forward positive, lasting change... but perhaps there's an "if you've got a big shiny hammer, everything looks like a nail" effect that keeps it an attractive option.
Not sure what the equivalently overused Britsh approach to problem-solving is. Sitting down for a cup of tea and a compromise? Forming an orderly queue and waiting the problem out? Find a member of the Windsor family to marry off, open something, or name something after - not a solution, as such, but sometimes a distraction's as good as one...
More seriously, Ed Miliband would probably suggest a judge-led inquiry.
I think we'll have polls showing Le Pen beating Fillon in round 2...
Macron looks like he's craving a fix.
Having Melenchon and Hamon there just gives Le Pen a foil.
Yes, at the moment it looks like Le Pen's night but we will see
In terms of the debate, definitely Le Pen and Melenchon stealing the show. Poor night for Macron. Hamon and Fillon a bit 'unnecessary'.
I think we may see a slight rise for Melenchon at the expense of Hamon. Macron may fall back slightly but not sure where his supporters will go, as Fillon hasn't done anything to redeem himself either.
really French corbyn goes down well in france?
For me, Hamon is more the Corbyn character - a bit 'wet' hard left, if that makes any sense. Melenchon has a fiestyness that makes him seem a bit more like Bernie Sanders.
Melénchon believes France needs a(nother) revolution, that's all you need to know.
What is it with the French thinking revolutions are always the answer?
They've had plenty of them, haven't they? The funny thing is, if they don't like the current state of their country, that suggests that revolutions are, in fact, not necessarily a good way to drive forward positive, lasting change... but perhaps there's an "if you've got a big shiny hammer, everything looks like a nail" effect that keeps it an attractive option.
Not sure what the equivalently overused Britsh approach to problem-solving is. Sitting down for a cup of tea and a compromise? Forming an orderly queue and waiting the problem out? Find a member of the Windsor family to marry off, open something, or name something after - not a solution, as such, but sometimes a distraction's as good as one...
More seriously, Ed Miliband would probably suggest a judge-led inquiry.
Yes, a fudged solution is the British way, to kick the can down the road. It's worked pretty well,although it's under strain now.
Hmm, who could Ian Austin be referring to, it's so subtle.
there's no point speaking to adoring crowds of people who already agree with you if the public isn't listening. And there's no point just telling people how terrible you think the Tories are, if you haven't persuaded them you can be trusted first.
I think we'll have polls showing Le Pen beating Fillon in round 2...
Macron looks like he's craving a fix.
Having Melenchon and Hamon there just gives Le Pen a foil.
Yes, at the moment it looks like Le Pen's night but we will see
In terms of the debate, definitely Le Pen and Melenchon stealing the show. Poor night for Macron. Hamon and Fillon a bit 'unnecessary'.
I think we may see a slight rise for Melenchon at the expense of Hamon. Macron may fall back slightly but not sure where his supporters will go, as Fillon hasn't done anything to redeem himself either.
really French corbyn goes down well in france?
For me, Hamon is more the Corbyn character - a bit 'wet' hard left, if that makes any sense. Melenchon has a fiestyness that makes him seem a bit more like Bernie Sanders.
Melénchon believes France needs a(nother) revolution, that's all you need to know.
If this were the UK one of his opponents would be campaigning on "X days to save the 5th Republic!"
@MyBurningEars absolutely, all good points - I think you'd have to be mad to move from anywhere to live six to a bedroom in London but I suppose I'm not them. Of course you could do it for a bit to make some cash them move home but if you were born and raised here where does that leave you, if you're a young working class couple wanting to start a family? I guess I originally wanted to point out the absurdity of people, even on my high salary, finding it hard to cope with things as they are now.
And of course remote working and AI is going to come for a lot of people's jobs. I suppose it is all a matter of perspective. For many in the world living standards are going up, up, up. Mine are lower than my parents' and I expect my children's to be lower still.
Does this make me another over-privileged, white, middle class mouth foamer? Perhaps, but it isn't in my interests to see unlimited immigration and I find it bizarre that so many who are directly affected by it seem so in favour of it - my less well off central london chums with their unemployable art degrees living six to a warehouse share and failing to find bar work spring to mind. Looks like turkeys voting for Xmas to me.
First, Emmanuel Macron had a good night. If anyone was hoping he'd fail to make the grade, they were wrong. On at least two occasions, he carried the offensive against Marine Le Pen in calm but forceful tones.
Marine Le Pen was less good. Her stridency was off-putting. Fans won't have minded, but any victorious presidential candidate needs to reach out beyond the comfort zone, and she does not seem able to.
Posters here said he was vacuous, among other things, but I'd say people like vacuousness in politicians...when said politician is a fresh face or otherwise new to the top level of electoral contests. Vagueness and cliche gets rewarded, when delivered by a newbie.
Posters here said he was vacuous, among other things, but I'd say people like vacuousness in politicians...when said politician is a fresh face or otherwise new to the top level of electoral contests. Vagueness and cliche gets rewarded, when delivered by a newbie.
I think we'll have polls showing Le Pen beating Fillon in round 2...
Macron looks like he's craving a fix.
Having Melenchon and Hamon there just gives Le Pen a foil.
Yes, at the moment it looks like Le Pen's night but we will see
In terms of the debate, definitely Le Pen and Melenchon stealing the show. Poor night for Macron. Hamon and Fillon a bit 'unnecessary'.
I think we may see a slight rise for Melenchon at the expense of Hamon. Macron may fall back slightly but not sure where his supporters will go, as Fillon hasn't done anything to redeem himself either.
really French corbyn goes down well in france?
For me, Hamon is more the Corbyn character - a bit 'wet' hard left, if that makes any sense. Melenchon has a fiestyness that makes him seem a bit more like Bernie Sanders.
Melénchon believes France needs a(nother) revolution, that's all you need to know.
First, Emmanuel Macron had a good night. If anyone was hoping he'd fail to make the grade, they were wrong. On at least two occasions, he carried the offensive against Marine Le Pen in calm but forceful tones.
Marine Le Pen was less good. Her stridency was off-putting. Fans won't have minded, but any victorious presidential candidate needs to reach out beyond the comfort zone, and she does not seem able to.
I accept that you'd have been happy to accept his support, but you'll just have to accept we're not the same. If he's thick enough to turn up to campaign in Scotland, he'll be told forcibly to jog on, probably by large groups of Indy supporting protestors.
I just think for myself, it is you who said you would rather Scotland stayed with us than win with the support of undesirables... nows your chance to take the leap!! ☺☺
If I had a fine UK pound for every righty uncontaminated by an original thought who says that they think for themselves...
Though just as undesirable, Dowson would have even less influence than Nige in any referendum, he really is that irrelevant.
The boy is a conduit, thats all. He certainly wouldn't have an original thought in the head. In the big scheme of things here, not one dent of an impact, not even for 6 months. Small time fringe merchant looking for the big time.
Doesn't mean some of his associates are not a potential problem though.
I imagine Dowson's associates are always a potential problem, with him around or not.
I'm almost half curious to see if someone so immersed in flegs could coherently flip over to a break the Union campaign.
Interesting...China creating jobs in America. One big stat they claim (and would love to know how true it is) that Chinese labour is only 4% cheaper than America and that China payroll tax is 68% compared to 44% in US.
Posters here said he was vacuous, among other things, but I'd say people like vacuousness in politicians...when said politician is a fresh face or otherwise new to the top level of electoral contests. Vagueness and cliche gets rewarded, when delivered by a newbie.
I think this is a crucial point.
Some candidates are blank slates onto which voters pin their hopes. These (lucky) candidates avoid policy specifics at all cost, and allow voters to decide that their (unstated) policies align.
Obama had that. People (even SeanT) though his policies were their policies.
It's too early to say that Macron has it too. But that's very much his game plan: be the blank slate.
Le Pen disappointed tonight. She's polling 26-27% in the first round. She should really be scoring higher than that in the debates to demonstrate she's capable of taking votes in the second round. 19% suggests that a quarter to a third of her own voters didn't rate her in the debate.
I think we'll have polls showing Le Pen beating Fillon in round 2...
Macron looks like he's craving a fix.
Having Melenchon and Hamon there just gives Le Pen a foil.
Yes, at the moment it looks like Le Pen's night but we will see
In terms of the debate, definitely Le Pen and Melenchon stealing the show. Poor night for Macron. Hamon and Fillon a bit 'unnecessary'.
I think we may see a slight rise for Melenchon at the expense of Hamon. Macron may fall back slightly but not sure where his supporters will go, as Fillon hasn't done anything to redeem himself either.
really French corbyn goes down well in france?
For me, Hamon is more the Corbyn character - a bit 'wet' hard left, if that makes any sense. Melenchon has a fiestyness that makes him seem a bit more like Bernie Sanders.
Melénchon believes France needs a(nother) revolution, that's all you need to know.
Macron wrote a book entitled "Révolution".
People who wrote books called "Revolution" usually hope people won't notice that their platform is actually "No change".
First, Emmanuel Macron had a good night. If anyone was hoping he'd fail to make the grade, they were wrong. On at least two occasions, he carried the offensive against Marine Le Pen in calm but forceful tones.
Marine Le Pen was less good. Her stridency was off-putting. Fans won't have minded, but any victorious presidential candidate needs to reach out beyond the comfort zone, and she does not seem able to.
You feel like certain types want Macron to be France's Trudeau...who they worship more than Obama.
Yes I don't agree with that narrative (although apparently the polls said Macron won!). MLP started out seeming irritated while the others were calm, but she improved as the night went on. She borrowed a Clegg style debate tactic of speaking more directly to the audience at home rather than the other politicians. She's undoubtedly the most charismatic of the 5. Macron wasn't crap, but he didn't shine. He waffled a lot. But he also got hit from all sides repeatedly (more than the others) to be fair. Melenchon the best performer imo. Considering he was last in the polls he managed to dominate (alongside MLP) throughout, you could be forgiven for thinking he is one of the main contenders if you watched that.
Elabe typically has the best results for Macron and both Melenchon and Le Pen did beat him on understanding 'people like them', however as ever pretty boys do well in TV debates, what is new?
Here is a radical idea, why not simply say that EPG software should allow you to build your own "favourite" list which you can put in any order you like.
Competition and the public will decide if they really want to have BBC at the top or something else. I would have Sky Sports at the top.
This kind of simple functionality is already available via open source software.
I guess I originally wanted to point out the absurdity of people, even on my high salary, finding it hard to cope with things as they are now.
And of course remote working and AI is going to come for a lot of people's jobs. I suppose it is all a matter of perspective. For many in the world living standards are going up, up, up. Mine are lower than my parents' and I expect my children's to be lower still.
If you take advantage of all the options available to you, I suspect your quality of life will be just fine - with that wage, you may well catch up and overtake your parents later. Like you say, it can be tricky even for young graduate professionals to save up substantial sums of money if working in London, and I know several who've made similar complaints to me. But if you get up to the higher-rate tax bracket while holding your expenditure roughly consistent with the levels you were at earlier, it can turbo-charge your savings rate.
(If I recall correctly you reckoned your skills might only be worth 20-30k outside London, if you didn't commute. But so long as you're not madly in love with the London vibe, and are happy to take things at a different pace, that's enough cash for a very comfortable quality of life in the shires. And substantially more so if you're double-income and splitting the costs.)
So while I don't think your future quality of life is likely to be as negative as you fear, I do think the good stuff is likely to be delayed compared to the generation before. That seems to be true for a lot of life-events actually - first house, marriage, first child, they're all getting pushed back age-wise. A bit of that is to do with folk spending more time in education, but only a bit.
Does this make me another over-privileged, white, middle class mouth foamer? Perhaps, but it isn't in my interests to see unlimited immigration and I find it bizarre that so many who are directly affected by it seem so in favour of it - my less well off central london chums with their unemployable art degrees living six to a warehouse share and failing to find bar work spring to mind. Looks like turkeys voting for Xmas to me.
Gah, are they in their 30s? Terrible, but at least (I hope) they are having a blast of it. Also an indictment of their careers advisers, and whatever PR people sold them on their uni degree.
Interesting...China creating jobs in America. One big stat they claim (and would love to know how true it is) that Chinese labour is only 4% cheaper than America and that China payroll tax is 68% compared to 44% in US.
I wonder how much is a Rule of Law thing. Less likely to have your factory mysteriously shut down or ownership taken away from you. A safety bolt-hole, an investment in insurance for the future. If you get your family to own/run business interests in America, particularly if you can get your kids over there to oversee and manage it all, then you've manoeuvred into a healthier spot from the eggs and baskets perspective.
First, Emmanuel Macron had a good night. If anyone was hoping he'd fail to make the grade, they were wrong. On at least two occasions, he carried the offensive against Marine Le Pen in calm but forceful tones.
Marine Le Pen was less good. Her stridency was off-putting. Fans won't have minded, but any victorious presidential candidate needs to reach out beyond the comfort zone, and she does not seem able to.
You feel like certain types want Macron to be France's Trudeau...who they worship more than Obama.
Yes I don't agree with that narrative (although apparently the polls said Macron won!). MLP started out seeming irritated while the others were calm, but she improved as the night went on. She borrowed a Clegg style debate tactic of speaking more directly to the audience at home rather than the other politicians. She's undoubtedly the most charismatic of the 5. Macron wasn't crap, but he didn't shine. He waffled a lot. But he also got hit from all sides repeatedly (more than the others) to be fair. Melenchon the best performer imo. Considering he was last in the polls he managed to dominate (alongside MLP) throughout, you could be forgiven for thinking he is one of the main contenders if you watched that.
Do you think people are projecting what they want on to Macron, and that's why he is the clear winner tonight according to this poll?
Do you think people are projecting what they want on to Macron, and that's why he is the clear winner tonight according to this poll?
The thing is thaty Macron didn't actually need to win. He needed to avoid losing disastrously and remain the credible non-Le Pen candidate. Le Pen's best score is 24% "understanding ordinary people". If 76% don't even think that about a populist, she's really toast.
That's some sound advice right there. I live on pretty much what I lived on five years ago, while most of my well-off peers blow it on blow or worse, extensive round the world travel, which seems in my social cirlce to be just as addictive and far more costly. It may broaden the mind but it doesn't help you save for a home.
I thank my lucky stars every day that I am in the top 10% or so, that I do own a flat, better late than never. But I'll be the first to admit a lot of it was by luck more than judgement. I'm not wedded to London but not sure I could live on 30k and enjoy the same quality of life - or pay for my kids to have an education like mine. Some state schools are good, some aren't. But it's a lottery and I wouldn't gamble with my kids. Call me Diane Abbott.
There is a very arse-end of gen x vibe to my circle of mid 30s friends, we are neither young enough to be purple hared millennials, comfortable with a life lived on social media and never owning anything, nor are we like those ten or even five years older who were able to buy houses in their twenties, many of us were trained for / studied for jobs that suddenly ceased to exist.
Some of us are making a go of it but a lot of people - yes, in their thirties - have given up. Well educated and well bred, with their useless art degrees and their part time bar work and their six to eight person warehouse-share.
I do feel that Generation Rent are going to turn around and bite the Tories on the arse eventually. They will get older, they will still not have houses, and they will vote.
I'm doing OK, but as is rightly pointed out I'm top 10%. Lucky me. The system feels broken and Brexit feels like the necessary but unpleasant break needed to set the nation's broken bones.
Interesting...China creating jobs in America. One big stat they claim (and would love to know how true it is) that Chinese labour is only 4% cheaper than America and that China payroll tax is 68% compared to 44% in US.
I wonder how much is a Rule of Law thing. Less likely to have your factory mysteriously shut down or ownership taken away from you. A safety bolt-hole, an investment in insurance for the future. If you get your family to own/run business interests in America, particularly if you can get your kids over there to oversee and manage it all, then you've manoeuvred into a healthier spot from the eggs and baskets perspective.
I am sure that is certainly part of it. But I guess it has to be financially viable as well. Otherwise, I am sure you could devise something a lot lower risk to get money stashed and your kids resident in the US overseeing it i.e. slightly grander scale version of what a lot of UK / Ireland ex-pats in US did which was to buy up things like lawn mowing businesses to get their residency.
But perhaps to a billionaire a factory of employing 1000s of people is the same as Dave from Dartford running lawn mowing r us in Orlando , Florida.
@MyBurningEars That's some sound advice right there. I live on pretty much what I lived on five years ago, while most of my well-off peers blow it on blow or worse, extensive round the world travel, which seems in my social cirlce to be just as addictive and far more costly. It may broaden the mind but it doesn't help you save for a home.
A lot of people could buy a house far earlier if they really set their hearts on it, worked their backsides off for it, and pulled the purse-strings tighter in the meanwhile. Various friends on better money than me complain incessantly about the inaccessibility of the housing ladder and their deposit difficulties while they fritter cash every which way - the travel bug and constant dining out being the two I find most astonishingly wasteful, for folk moaning so loudly how little their slaving away has let them save up.
Cutting back lifestyle is hard, psychologically, once you go beyond trimming what's lost through poor organisation and cut into those unnecessary, expensive yet attractive extravagances instead. Nobody wants to feel like they've gone backwards, particularly on "status" things like travel and culture, having a new car instead of an old or second-hand one, or shopping in the Wrong Kind Of Supermarket.
On the other hand, maintaining a fairly level expenditure after a pay rise is psychologically quite easy. If you were just breaking even before, you can start saving many times what you used to - quite possibly multiples of your mid-late-twenties' life-savings stashed away every year. That's a good place to be.
@MyBurningEars I do feel that Generation Rent are going to turn around and bite the Tories on the arse eventually. They will get older, they will still not have houses, and they will vote.
I'm doing OK, but as is rightly pointed out I'm top 10%. Lucky me. The system feels broken and Brexit feels like the necessary but unpleasant break needed to set the nation's broken bones.
Thanks again for the kind words.
@Pong's constantly pointing this out re Generation Rent and his political judgment is very sharp. Every extra million voters who reach middle age without owning property is a demographic time-bomb for the Tories. Twentysomethings can vote left-liberal all they like (if they can be bothered, which they generally can't) and it's ultimately not a problem because they are outnumbered by their elders while young, and once they grow up and get a job and a family and own a house and start paying taxes, it'll turn out they were budding Tories all along. If that conveyor belt of future Conservative voters stops working, while dyed-blue voters from the older generation are literally dying off, they're in all kinds of trouble.
I'm not at all convinced that Brexit will fix it, though it will certainly give the pieces a good shake-up. Many of the issues involved with house prices are really under domestic control already, though London is exceptional - but that is due to its global connections, not merely its status as a European city. The six Poles to a room could quite easily become six Indians. (I voted Leave for quite different reasons.)
At age 31 you are at 75K. You do not get sympathy at 75K at age 31 and you shouldn't be asking for it. You get advice instead and here it us: stop complaining.
You can easily, easily buy something commutable into London at that wedge. Buy a flat in Slough near the station and commute in, you can afford the season ticket and the mortgage. And if that's hard...well, yes it is, but there's a difference between "hard" and "too hard", and you're an adult, and adulthood is learning to cope with hard things.
What did you think would happen? Vote Leave and houses would become affordable overnight? Genuinely? They're still going up! London house prices are going up by on average £100 per day. Your wedge is impressive now, but house prices will double in the next 10-15 years and your wedge...won't. And you're not getting any younger.
In ten years time, your salary will be less impressive, you'll be less lendable, you'll be competing with younger people and houses will be twice as much. You're a decaying asset, and you badly need to act before it's too late.
And here's the horrible, horrible thing: all the people here today who told you "there there", and sympathised with your nonexistent plight are not your friends. Yet I, who couldn't work out whether to hurl chunks or scream depredations at you are your friend in this. Listen to this bit very carefully: it's important.
Stop complaining, grow up, buy whatever house or flat you can afford, even if its in a stabby area and everybody is a psycho, and cope with it. You can afford it, and you can't afford not to.
And that's the best advice you will get this year.
I am sure that is certainly part of it. But I guess it has to be financially viable as well. Otherwise, I am sure you could devise something a lot lower risk to get money stashed and your kids resident in the US overseeing it i.e. slightly grander scale version of what a lot of UK / Ireland ex-pats in US did which was to buy up things like lawn mowing businesses to get their residency.
But perhaps to a billionaire a factory of employing 1000s of people is the same as Dave from Dartford running lawn mowing r us in Orlando , Florida.
I'm sure there are still some bits of industry in the USA that are profitable. How good do the returns have to be to be attractive, bearing in mind the alternatives? We are past the era of China being soaked in massive, easy investment opportunities, so that anyone there with a few million in their pocket is no longer spoiled for choice where to make their next fortune with it. There are definitely billions of dollars seeking opportunities abroad now.
I imagine you're correct that all things are relative. There's also "Face" to contend with. How much Face would you get for channeling your relatives and associates into the States as small business-people? If you're meant to be The Man, that's not much good is it? Guy who builds a multi-billion, multi-national corporation - sounds more like it. Then again, I don't know that high-end of the market so this is speculation.
I can tell you about the millionaire side, they're very keen for the kids to reach the status of "citizen of the world", or at least, "citizen of western country with extensive visa-free travel" so that they can pursue business interests globally. But they are investing a significant part of their funds just in the education route that's needed to get there, and the kids are expected to sort out a lot for themselves after that (getting a high-skill visa for a high-reputation western firm being the main route in, with potentially a freer hand once citizenship arrives). The main thing you've therefore got into the West is the human capital, the financial capital's been burned up in doing so. But for the very top guys, that education spending component is trivial, and they've got money burning a hole in their pocket. At what stage "go build a factory" becomes the logical course of action, I don't know.
What did you think would happen? Vote Leave and houses would become affordable overnight? Genuinely? They're still going up! London house prices are going up by on average £100 per day. Your wedge is impressive now, but house prices will double in the next 10-15 years and your wedge...won't. And you're not getting any younger.
In ten years time, your salary will be less impressive, you'll be less lendable, you'll be competing with younger people and houses will be twice as much. You're a decaying asset, and you badly need to act before it's too late.
Why wouldn't his wedge double in 10-15 years? If you mean savings, then for investment in equities, doubling in a decade is in fact roughly what you'd expect based on long-run average returns. (Then again, that's also a way to potentially halve your money.) Similarly 75k is a good salary, but unlikely to be where it tops out - obviously this is to some extent industry-specific, but most people's peak earning power comes a bit later than 31.
Racing onto the housing ladder for primarily financial reasons (and Fear Of Missing Out on the next decade's anticipated rise would count as one of those) doesn't seem to me to be a good financial strategy. Chris Dillow did an excellent piece on this, including why looking at the data suggesting "house prices are going up at X% a year" can be highly misreading. (As a statto, you ought to enjoy the working paper he links on the subject.)
That's not to say that buying a nice house is a bad idea, and there are obvious benefits to extending one's search horizons. Slough struck me as an slightly cynical choice though - rather like it or lump it, though perhaps this isn't what you intended! I reckon there are nicer commutable places where a proper house, rather than flat, is affordable (which I understand is the objective here).
Comments
Best of luck with broadening the diet, incidentally! (Not sure if you noticed all the cookery-related tips that were left for you - do hope the beans are not going to be a permanent fixture, or that your comment may have been somewhat in jest. If it were serious, then a serious response - you're a smart chap with some proper analytical skills. You should be being paid more.)
Today, spirits in the Labour Party have run high, so I want to send a message to all party members."
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn
Fillon said "le vrai serial killer est tes projets" or something.
The debate between Sarkozy and Royal was what won it for him where he stayed calm, against expectations, and provoked her into losing her cool.
Though just as undesirable, Dowson would have even less influence than Nige in any referendum, he really is that irrelevant.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4241412/Brazil-s-12-billion-Olympic-legacy-lies-ruins.html
Doesn't mean some of his associates are not a potential problem though.
Not sure what the equivalently overused Britsh approach to problem-solving is. Sitting down for a cup of tea and a compromise? Forming an orderly queue and waiting the problem out? Find a member of the Windsor family to marry off, open something, or name something after - not a solution, as such, but sometimes a distraction's as good as one...
More seriously, Ed Miliband would probably suggest a judge-led inquiry.
there's no point speaking to adoring crowds of people who already agree with you if the public isn't listening. And there's no point just telling people how terrible you think the Tories are, if you haven't persuaded them you can be trusted first.
Spoken like a true Tory.
http://labourlist.org/2017/03/ian-austin-lets-not-kid-ourselves-tory-cheats-arent-why-we-lost-in-2015/
Mate - the fight is long over. All I'm hearing is the fan whinging about the referee on a post-match phone-in.
And of course remote working and AI is going to come for a lot of people's jobs. I suppose it is all a matter of perspective. For many in the world living standards are going up, up, up. Mine are lower than my parents' and I expect my children's to be lower still.
Does this make me another over-privileged, white, middle class mouth foamer? Perhaps, but it isn't in my interests to see unlimited immigration and I find it bizarre that so many who are directly affected by it seem so in favour of it - my less well off central london chums with their unemployable art degrees living six to a warehouse share and failing to find bar work spring to mind. Looks like turkeys voting for Xmas to me.
Analysis: BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris
First, Emmanuel Macron had a good night. If anyone was hoping he'd fail to make the grade, they were wrong. On at least two occasions, he carried the offensive against Marine Le Pen in calm but forceful tones.
Marine Le Pen was less good. Her stridency was off-putting. Fans won't have minded, but any victorious presidential candidate needs to reach out beyond the comfort zone, and she does not seem able to.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39334111
You feel like certain types want Macron to be France's Trudeau...who they worship more than Obama.
I'm almost half curious to see if someone so immersed in flegs could coherently flip over to a break the Union campaign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls_6A4ivmx0
Some candidates are blank slates onto which voters pin their hopes. These (lucky) candidates avoid policy specifics at all cost, and allow voters to decide that their (unstated) policies align.
Obama had that. People (even SeanT) though his policies were their policies.
It's too early to say that Macron has it too. But that's very much his game plan: be the blank slate.
Le Pen disappointed tonight. She's polling 26-27% in the first round. She should really be scoring higher than that in the debates to demonstrate she's capable of taking votes in the second round. 19% suggests that a quarter to a third of her own voters didn't rate her in the debate.
https://twitter.com/elabe_fr/status/843978193161932800
Here is a radical idea, why not simply say that EPG software should allow you to build your own "favourite" list which you can put in any order you like.
Competition and the public will decide if they really want to have BBC at the top or something else. I would have Sky Sports at the top.
This kind of simple functionality is already available via open source software.
(If I recall correctly you reckoned your skills might only be worth 20-30k outside London, if you didn't commute. But so long as you're not madly in love with the London vibe, and are happy to take things at a different pace, that's enough cash for a very comfortable quality of life in the shires. And substantially more so if you're double-income and splitting the costs.)
So while I don't think your future quality of life is likely to be as negative as you fear, I do think the good stuff is likely to be delayed compared to the generation before. That seems to be true for a lot of life-events actually - first house, marriage, first child, they're all getting pushed back age-wise. A bit of that is to do with folk spending more time in education, but only a bit.
Does this make me another over-privileged, white, middle class mouth foamer? Perhaps, but it isn't in my interests to see unlimited immigration and I find it bizarre that so many who are directly affected by it seem so in favour of it - my less well off central london chums with their unemployable art degrees living six to a warehouse share and failing to find bar work spring to mind. Looks like turkeys voting for Xmas to me.
Gah, are they in their 30s? Terrible, but at least (I hope) they are having a blast of it. Also an indictment of their careers advisers, and whatever PR people sold them on their uni degree.
That's some sound advice right there. I live on pretty much what I lived on five years ago, while most of my well-off peers blow it on blow or worse, extensive round the world travel, which seems in my social cirlce to be just as addictive and far more costly. It may broaden the mind but it doesn't help you save for a home.
I thank my lucky stars every day that I am in the top 10% or so, that I do own a flat, better late than never. But I'll be the first to admit a lot of it was by luck more than judgement. I'm not wedded to London but not sure I could live on 30k and enjoy the same quality of life - or pay for my kids to have an education like mine. Some state schools are good, some aren't. But it's a lottery and I wouldn't gamble with my kids. Call me Diane Abbott.
There is a very arse-end of gen x vibe to my circle of mid 30s friends, we are neither young enough to be purple hared millennials, comfortable with a life lived on social media and never owning anything, nor are we like those ten or even five years older who were able to buy houses in their twenties, many of us were trained for / studied for jobs that suddenly ceased to exist.
Some of us are making a go of it but a lot of people - yes, in their thirties - have given up. Well educated and well bred, with their useless art degrees and their part time bar work and their six to eight person warehouse-share.
I do feel that Generation Rent are going to turn around and bite the Tories on the arse eventually. They will get older, they will still not have houses, and they will vote.
I'm doing OK, but as is rightly pointed out I'm top 10%. Lucky me. The system feels broken and Brexit feels like the necessary but unpleasant break needed to set the nation's broken bones.
Thanks again for the kind words.
But perhaps to a billionaire a factory of employing 1000s of people is the same as Dave from Dartford running lawn mowing r us in Orlando , Florida.
Cutting back lifestyle is hard, psychologically, once you go beyond trimming what's lost through poor organisation and cut into those unnecessary, expensive yet attractive extravagances instead. Nobody wants to feel like they've gone backwards, particularly on "status" things like travel and culture, having a new car instead of an old or second-hand one, or shopping in the Wrong Kind Of Supermarket.
On the other hand, maintaining a fairly level expenditure after a pay rise is psychologically quite easy. If you were just breaking even before, you can start saving many times what you used to - quite possibly multiples of your mid-late-twenties' life-savings stashed away every year. That's a good place to be.
I'm not at all convinced that Brexit will fix it, though it will certainly give the pieces a good shake-up. Many of the issues involved with house prices are really under domestic control already, though London is exceptional - but that is due to its global connections, not merely its status as a European city. The six Poles to a room could quite easily become six Indians. (I voted Leave for quite different reasons.)
And cheers. Do keep posting.
At age 31 you are at 75K. You do not get sympathy at 75K at age 31 and you shouldn't be asking for it. You get advice instead and here it us: stop complaining.
You can easily, easily buy something commutable into London at that wedge. Buy a flat in Slough near the station and commute in, you can afford the season ticket and the mortgage. And if that's hard...well, yes it is, but there's a difference between "hard" and "too hard", and you're an adult, and adulthood is learning to cope with hard things.
What did you think would happen? Vote Leave and houses would become affordable overnight? Genuinely? They're still going up! London house prices are going up by on average £100 per day. Your wedge is impressive now, but house prices will double in the next 10-15 years and your wedge...won't. And you're not getting any younger.
In ten years time, your salary will be less impressive, you'll be less lendable, you'll be competing with younger people and houses will be twice as much. You're a decaying asset, and you badly need to act before it's too late.
And here's the horrible, horrible thing: all the people here today who told you "there there", and sympathised with your nonexistent plight are not your friends. Yet I, who couldn't work out whether to hurl chunks or scream depredations at you are your friend in this. Listen to this bit very carefully: it's important.
Stop complaining, grow up, buy whatever house or flat you can afford, even if its in a stabby area and everybody is a psycho, and cope with it. You can afford it, and you can't afford not to.
And that's the best advice you will get this year.
I imagine you're correct that all things are relative. There's also "Face" to contend with. How much Face would you get for channeling your relatives and associates into the States as small business-people? If you're meant to be The Man, that's not much good is it? Guy who builds a multi-billion, multi-national corporation - sounds more like it. Then again, I don't know that high-end of the market so this is speculation.
I can tell you about the millionaire side, they're very keen for the kids to reach the status of "citizen of the world", or at least, "citizen of western country with extensive visa-free travel" so that they can pursue business interests globally. But they are investing a significant part of their funds just in the education route that's needed to get there, and the kids are expected to sort out a lot for themselves after that (getting a high-skill visa for a high-reputation western firm being the main route in, with potentially a freer hand once citizenship arrives). The main thing you've therefore got into the West is the human capital, the financial capital's been burned up in doing so. But for the very top guys, that education spending component is trivial, and they've got money burning a hole in their pocket. At what stage "go build a factory" becomes the logical course of action, I don't know.
Why wouldn't his wedge double in 10-15 years? If you mean savings, then for investment in equities, doubling in a decade is in fact roughly what you'd expect based on long-run average returns. (Then again, that's also a way to potentially halve your money.) Similarly 75k is a good salary, but unlikely to be where it tops out - obviously this is to some extent industry-specific, but most people's peak earning power comes a bit later than 31.
Racing onto the housing ladder for primarily financial reasons (and Fear Of Missing Out on the next decade's anticipated rise would count as one of those) doesn't seem to me to be a good financial strategy. Chris Dillow did an excellent piece on this, including why looking at the data suggesting "house prices are going up at X% a year" can be highly misreading. (As a statto, you ought to enjoy the working paper he links on the subject.)
That's not to say that buying a nice house is a bad idea, and there are obvious benefits to extending one's search horizons. Slough struck me as an slightly cynical choice though - rather like it or lump it, though perhaps this isn't what you intended! I reckon there are nicer commutable places where a proper house, rather than flat, is affordable (which I understand is the objective here).