Gina Miller: "everyone should be my biggest fan", "it's not about thwarting the will of the people", "I am a democrat.." etc.
Bollocks.
The modern remainer, the people don't matter, only the EU and our submission to it. I can't wait for them to be routed again and again until they can take no more.
@JosiasJessop - quite a flimsy bit of evidence, and I don't recall there being any question of it's authenticity of the time. Perhaps a more cautious approach to reporting on such matters would be the correct approach.
What sort of evidence do you expect in a story about someone allegedly writing something nasty on a receipt?
Impeccable witnesses, such as a nun, a doctor and a judge who witnessed him write it? CSI-style infinizoom CCTV that shows him writing it? The perpetrator covering his face in a black cloak and saying: "Mwahahaha! I did it!"
It was a story about some writing on a receipt. That was provided.
It seems we all want reporters to be cautious on stories we don't like, yet are perfectly happy to accuse them of covering up on other occasions. Oh, and then there's the demand for information whenever anything happens.
The waitress might have lied. How is a reporter to ascertain that in what was, originally, a page-filer story?
I'm not saying they couldn't run it without evidence, just that the evidence on its own isn't a slam dunk. The original article should have reflected that, and caveated it with the fact they only have one side of the story.
Welcome back, Mr. Calum (wish I'd followed your SNP tips).
Labour must be glad there's no SNP equivalent in England. Otherwise they'd be looking at total collapse.
A patriotic, pro european social democrat party would certainly get my vote. Vote Lib Dem!
In case the Edit function hasn't timed out yet - you typed "patriotic" by accident.
Just trying to help out.
They are patriots. EU patriots.
Nope. SNP are pro EU Scottish patriots, Lib Dems pro EU British patriots.
The idea of selling your soul to the undemocratic EU is patriotic is beyond scorn
I think that both Paddy Ashdown and Margaret Thatcher could reasonably be described as patriots :-)
Maggie who was more Eurosceptic than any of the current lot of jellyfish. She saw what the EU meant for this nation towards the end of her reign and the traitors in the party deposed her for it. Now they have almost all been eliminated within the party structure. Only Ken and Anna Soubry left, hopefully they get eliminated soon as well. I'd rather have Labour MPs than those two traitors.
At this point in time one can either be in favour of the EU and a traitor or be in favour of leave and a patriot. I know where I stand, quisling Lib Dems and useful idiots like Soubry on the other hand, well we know they all want our country to beg the EU for forgiveness for turning away from their nightmarish vision of this country as part of a greater German empire.
A post that says far more about you than about any of the subjects referred to therein.
Not particularly, a post that has probably made you feel guilty for supporting the traitors that want to sell out our nation to the EU, a foreign power. A post that makes you realise the side you have chosen wish ill on our nation. A side which puts you in the same category as those who want nothing more than to see us be subservient to Juncker and Merkel.
If you regard 48% of the country as traitors you're going to need a damned big secret service (an recruit a lot of immigrants to staff it!)
Welcome back, Mr. Calum (wish I'd followed your SNP tips).
Labour must be glad there's no SNP equivalent in England. Otherwise they'd be looking at total collapse.
A patriotic, pro european social democrat party would certainly get my vote. Vote Lib Dem!
In case the Edit function hasn't timed out yet - you typed "patriotic" by accident.
Just trying to help out.
They are patriots. EU patriots.
Nope. SNP are pro EU Scottish patriots, Lib Dems pro EU British patriots.
The idea of selling your soul to the undemocratic EU is patriotic is beyond scorn
I think that both Paddy Ashdown and Margaret Thatcher could reasonably be described as patriots :-)
Maggie who was more Eurosceptic than any of the current lot of jellyfish. She saw what the EU meant for this nation towards the end of her reign and the traitors in the party deposed her for it. Now they have almost all been eliminated within the party structure. Only Ken and Anna Soubry left, hopefully they get eliminated soon as well. I'd rather have Labour MPs than those two traitors.
At this point in time one can either be in favour of the EU and a traitor or be in favour of leave and a patriot. I know where I stand, quisling Lib Dems and useful idiots like Soubry on the other hand, well we know they all want our country to beg the EU for forgiveness for turning away from their nightmarish vision of this country as part of a greater German empire.
A post that says far more about you than about any of the subjects referred to therein.
Welcome back, Mr. Calum (wish I'd followed your SNP tips).
Labour must be glad there's no SNP equivalent in England. Otherwise they'd be looking at total collapse.
A patriotic, pro european social democrat party would certainly get my vote. Vote Lib Dem!
In case the Edit function hasn't timed out yet - you typed "patriotic" by accident.
Just trying to help out.
They are patriots. EU patriots.
Nope. SNP are pro EU Scottish patriots, Lib Dems pro EU British patriots.
The idea of selling your soul to the undemocratic EU is patriotic is beyond scorn
I think that both Paddy Ashdown and Margaret Thatcher could reasonably be described as patriots :-)
Maggie who was more Eurosceptic than any of the current lot of jellyfish. She saw what the EU meant for this nation towards the end of her reign and the traitors in the party deposed her for it. Now they have almost all been eliminated within the party structure. Only Ken and Anna Soubry left, hopefully they get eliminated soon as well. I'd rather have Labour MPs than those two traitors.
At this point in time one can either be in favour of the EU and a traitor or be in favour of leave and a patriot. I know where I stand, quisling Lib Dems and useful idiots like Soubry on the other hand, well we know they all want our country to beg the EU for forgiveness for turning away from their nightmarish vision of this country as part of a greater German empire.
A post that says far more about you than about any of the subjects referred to therein.
Not particularly, a post that has probably made you feel guilty for supporting the traitors that want to sell out our nation to the EU, a foreign power. A post that makes you realise the side you have chosen wish ill on our nation. A side which puts you in the same category as those who want nothing more than to see us be subservient to Juncker and Merkel.
The news cannot be fake if they're honestly reporting what has been told them, even if that turns out to be wrong. It wasn't fake news to report on Blair's 45 minute claims, even if the claims turned out to be rubbish.
Do you think that should apply to the Sun wrt to Hillsborough?
That's a really difficult question to answer as I'd need to read the latest inquiry report, and it is understandably a very sensitive issue to many people.
However: regardless of what they were told off the record by authority figures, the Sun were blatantly crass and unsympathetic in publishing that headline and story at that time. It was a sensationalist attempt to get sales on the back of a tragedy.
It had little to do with 'the truth', and all to do with sales.
It's also different to the Blair situation; the 45 minute claim was in the foreward of a published government dossier, and the PM himself said the words. That's a very different level of evidence from the Sun at Hillsborough.
Turn back the Tory tide? So he is admitting that there is a tide of Tory support, when tides are famously the things you cannot turn back, thus unintentionally suggesting that he knows the Tories are rising and Labour can do nothing but wait for it to recede?
Blair's fault apparently, for getting Labour's share of the vote so high.
This is what Corbyn wrote
Labour’s share of the vote in Copeland has been falling for 20 years and of course I take my share of responsibility.
Gina Miller: "everyone should be my biggest fan", "it's not about thwarting the will of the people", "I am a democrat.." etc.
Bollocks.
The modern remainer, the people don't matter, only the EU and our submission to it. I can't wait for them to be routed again and again until they can take no more.
Whatever her motivations, her initial challenge clarified an important legal principle and therefore restored authority to parliament, which is a good thing, even if I disagree that the Lords should unreasonably frustrate the process.
Gina Miller: "everyone should be my biggest fan", "it's not about thwarting the will of the people", "I am a democrat.." etc.
Bollocks.
The modern remainer, the people don't matter, only the EU and our submission to it. I can't wait for them to be routed again and again until they can take no more.
If you regard 48% of the country as traitors you're going to need a damned big secret service (an recruit a lot of immigrants to staff it!)
Not 48%. Most of those who voted remain are reconciled to leaving, of the few that aren't most of those accept it is going to happen even if they don't personally agree. There is, however, a small proportion who want to subvert the will of the people and actively wish harm on our nation and would do whatever it takes to see this country bend the knee for Juncker and Merkel. Those traitors should be publicly flogged in Trafalgar Square and have rotten vegetables thrown at them by the watching children.
Welcome back, Mr. Calum (wish I'd followed your SNP tips).
Labour must be glad there's no SNP equivalent in England. Otherwise they'd be looking at total collapse.
A patriotic, pro european social democrat party would certainly get my vote. Vote Lib Dem!
In case the Edit function hasn't timed out yet - you typed "patriotic" by accident.
Just trying to help out.
They are patriots. EU patriots.
Nope. SNP are pro EU Scottish patriots, Lib Dems pro EU British patriots.
The idea of selling your soul to the undemocratic EU is patriotic is beyond scorn
I think that both Paddy Ashdown and Margaret Thatcher could reasonably be described as patriots :-)
Maggie who was more Eurosceptic than any of the current lot of jellyfish. She saw what the EU meant for this nation towards the end of her reign and the traitors in the party deposed her for it. Now they have almost all been eliminated within the party structure. Only Ken and Anna Soubry left, hopefully they get eliminated soon as well. I'd rather have Labour MPs than those two traitors.
At this point in time one can either be in favour of the EU and a traitor or be in favour of leave and a patriot. I know where I stand, quisling Lib Dems and useful idiots like Soubry on the other hand, well we know they all want our country to beg the EU for forgiveness for turning away from their nightmarish vision of this country as part of a greater German empire.
A post that says far more about you than about any of the subjects referred to therein.
It's Brexitloon wine o'clock!
Yes, of course. I was forgetting we're now past the lagershed.
Gina Miller: "everyone should be my biggest fan", "it's not about thwarting the will of the people", "I am a democrat.." etc.
Bollocks.
The modern remainer, the people don't matter, only the EU and our submission to it. I can't wait for them to be routed again and again until they can take no more.
Whatever her motivations, her initial challenge clarified an important legal principle and therefore restored authority to parliament, which is a good thing, even if I disagree that the Lords should unreasonably frustrate the process.
If she really was only concerned about the principle she should be happy now as Parliament is having its say, and will continue to do so. Instead she now appears to be complaining about how Parliament has voted, this is no longer about principle but the outcome. Gina Miller does not like being on the losing side.
If you regard 48% of the country as traitors you're going to need a damned big secret service (an recruit a lot of immigrants to staff it!)
Not 48%. Most of those who voted remain are reconciled to leaving, of the few that aren't most of those accept it is going to happen even if they don't personally agree. There is, however, a small proportion who want to subvert the will of the people and actively wish harm on our nation and would do whatever it takes to see this country bend the knee for Juncker and Merkel. Those traitors should be publicly flogged in Trafalgar Square and have rotten vegetables thrown at them by the watching children.
I voted LEAVE as well, Max.
The problem I have is we have entrusted the economic future of our country to Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis and Liam Fox.
I wouldn't entrust my crown jewels to a psychopath with a rusty saw but that's what we've done by handing power to this group of halfwits.
We are right to leave the EU - the problem is the people who will be arranging our future andf the "deal" they will arrange for us. That's where the real damage is going to be done.
Gina Miller: "everyone should be my biggest fan", "it's not about thwarting the will of the people", "I am a democrat.." etc.
Bollocks.
The modern remainer, the people don't matter, only the EU and our submission to it. I can't wait for them to be routed again and again until they can take no more.
It's a rage against the dying of their EU light.
It's people like her that have pushed me from being in favour of a soft-Brexit to being in favour of a clean break. Much like Mr Meeks was unable to be in the same camp as Nigel, I find myself unable to support any side which has anti-democrats like Miller and Ken in it. I would rather face our destiny heads held high than get into bed with those who wish to sell us out to the EU.
Gina Miller: "everyone should be my biggest fan", "it's not about thwarting the will of the people", "I am a democrat.." etc.
Bollocks.
The modern remainer, the people don't matter, only the EU and our submission to it. I can't wait for them to be routed again and again until they can take no more.
Whatever her motivations, her initial challenge clarified an important legal principle and therefore restored authority to parliament, which is a good thing, even if I disagree that the Lords should unreasonably frustrate the process.
If she really was only concerned about the principle she should be happy now as Parliament is having its say, and will continue to do so. Instead she now appears to be complaining about how Parliament has voted, this is no longer about principle but the outcome. Gina Miller does not like being on the losing side.
Yes, that's why I said 'whatever her motivations'. She ensured parliament had the theoretical ability not to leave, and she wants that to be more than theoretical. But her desire does not concern me, and since I severely doubt the Lords will do more than minor ping pong, giving the right to authorise A50 to parliament was still a good thing.
Good to see Gina Miller confirming my view of her as a rampant self publicist prone to morning sickness. Her respect for the sovereignty of parliament lasted as long her hopes it might thwart the serving of Article 50. Nauseating.
@JosiasJessop - quite a flimsy bit of evidence, and I don't recall there being any question of it's authenticity of the time. Perhaps a more cautious approach to reporting on such matters would be the correct approach.
What sort of evidence do you expect in a story about someone allegedly writing something nasty on a receipt?
Impeccable witnesses, such as a nun, a doctor and a judge who witnessed him write it? CSI-style infinizoom CCTV that shows him writing it? The perpetrator covering his face in a black cloak and saying: "Mwahahaha! I did it!"
It was a story about some writing on a receipt. That was provided.
It seems we all want reporters to be cautious on stories we don't like, yet are perfectly happy to accuse them of covering up on other occasions. Oh, and then there's the demand for information whenever anything happens.
The waitress might have lied. How is a reporter to ascertain that in what was, originally, a page-filer story?
I'm not saying they couldn't run it without evidence, just that the evidence on its own isn't a slam dunk. The original article should have reflected that, and caveated it with the fact they only have one side of the story.
There's an important point here: what was the 'original article'? There are so many stories about this floating around, mainly copied from each other as it spread around the world.
It should be noted that the rebuttal story Sean linked to is perhaps more guilty of lacking caveats than the 'original' (or nearest to original) ones I've been able to find.
I'm not a fan of the press. Every story I've seen published that I've known something about has been inaccurate in one way or another. Including one where a building fire was placed on a street on the other side of Derby, when the fire would have been visible from the newspaper offices!
However despite that, I don't want the media to go too far the other way. That would be a recipe for all sorts of cover-ups and messiness. That's why I'm against the Leveson findings. The media are generally cr@p, but they're better free and cr@p than bound and cr@p.
@JosiasJessop - quite a flimsy bit of evidence, and I don't recall there being any question of it's authenticity of the time. Perhaps a more cautious approach to reporting on such matters would be the correct approach.
What sort of evidence do you expect in a story about someone allegedly writing something nasty on a receipt?
Impeccable witnesses, such as a nun, a doctor and a judge who witnessed him write it? CSI-style infinizoom CCTV that shows him writing it? The perpetrator covering his face in a black cloak and saying: "Mwahahaha! I did it!"
It was a story about some writing on a receipt. That was provided.
It seems we all want reporters to be cautious on stories we don't like, yet are perfectly happy to accuse them of covering up on other occasions. Oh, and then there's the demand for information whenever anything happens.
The waitress might have lied. How is a reporter to ascertain that in what was, originally, a page-filer story?
I'm not saying they couldn't run it without evidence, just that the evidence on its own isn't a slam dunk. The original article should have reflected that, and caveated it with the fact they only have one side of the story.
The media are generally cr@p, but they're better free and cr@p than bound and cr@p.
Well said. The risks of the former are better than the dangers of the latter.
Once Corbyn departs all bets will be off again , and it would become entirely realistic to see Labour polling circa 35% in 2020 under Benn , Jarvis or Nandy. I am hoping that the party suffers catastrophic losses in May to the extent that the Union leaders feel forced to intervene. If Corbyn then declines to step down they should invite a further challenge to his leadership.
Well ,thanks for articulating what some of us already knew.
Unions give Labour party their marching orders.
This is healthy, how?
There is a difference between exerting influence and giving the party 'its marching orders'. For most of Labour's history they exerted a moderating influence on any extreme elements. Moreover, the fact of such influence did not stop the public electing Labour Governments in 1945 and the 1960s/70s.
I think that the biggest difference is that so few people are members of Unions now. 50 years ago they represented half the workforce, now it is just 10%. Choosing the leader is much more valid in the first circumstance.
Indeed reversing the decline of private sector unions would do tbem a world of good.
What the workers of SportsDirect or the agricultural workers of Lincs need is a good Union to fight their corner.
A good union doc, not a left wing union politically motivated to strike to cause trouble for a government who doesn't meet their approval.
Turn back the Tory tide? So he is admitting that there is a tide of Tory support, when tides are famously the things you cannot turn back, thus unintentionally suggesting that he knows the Tories are rising and Labour can do nothing but wait for it to recede?
Blair's fault apparently, for getting Labour's share of the vote so high.
This is what Corbyn wrote
Labour’s share of the vote in Copeland has been falling for 20 years and of course I take my share of responsibility.
The boundary changes post - 2005 knocked approx 4% off Labour's vote share in Copeland and increased the Tory share by almost 2%. - ie the equivalent of a 2.75% swing. This based on notional estimates of results under revised boundaries.
Incidentally, i recommend this fantastic hotel I've moved to, having nearly gone mad in my remote Dartmoor cottage.
It's on the grey outskirts of Plymouth, but it's a five star gem: a genuine Elizabethan manor, with Great Hall and minstrels' gallery, superb food, splendid vibe, nice gardens, a truly lavish spa - world class - and it's three miles from wild moorland, epic hiking, and tumbling rivers. Elizabeth the First actually stayed here.
And it's costing me 150 quid a night. I could have got it for 120 if I'd been cannier.
An equivalent in the southeast - or most of Europe - would be 250-300. Minimum
Really. It's great. I think i might regard it as my writerly retreat in future
Welcome back, Mr. Calum (wish I'd followed your SNP tips).
Labour must be glad there's no SNP equivalent in England. Otherwise they'd be looking at total collapse.
A patriotic, pro european social democrat party would certainly get my vote. Vote Lib Dem!
In case the Edit function hasn't timed out yet - you typed "patriotic" by accident.
Just trying to help out.
They are patriots. EU patriots.
Nope. SNP are pro EU Scottish patriots, Lib Dems pro EU British patriots.
The idea of selling your soul to the undemocratic EU is patriotic is beyond scorn
I think that both Paddy Ashdown and Margaret Thatcher could reasonably be described as patriots :-)
Maggie who was more Eurosceptic than any of the current lot of jellyfish. She saw what the EU meant for this nation towards the end of her reign and the traitors in the party deposed her for it. Now they have almost all been eliminated within the party structure. Only Ken and Anna Soubry left, hopefully they get eliminated soon as well. I'd rather have Labour MPs than those two traitors.
At this point in time one can either be in favour of the EU and a traitor or be in favour of leave and a patriot. I know where I stand, quisling Lib Dems and useful idiots like Soubry on the other hand, well we know they all want our country to beg the EU for forgiveness for turning away from their nightmarish vision of this country as part of a greater German empire.
So Maggie spent most of her life as a traitor, and only became a patriot after she left office? how unfortunate :-)
How is living as a migrant in a Schengen country going by the way? Homesick for us in Blighty yet?
If you regard 48% of the country as traitors you're going to need a damned big secret service (an recruit a lot of immigrants to staff it!)
Not 48%. Most of those who voted remain are reconciled to leaving, of the few that aren't most of those accept it is going to happen even if they don't personally agree. There is, however, a small proportion who want to subvert the will of the people and actively wish harm on our nation and would do whatever it takes to see this country bend the knee for Juncker and Merkel. Those traitors should be publicly flogged in Trafalgar Square and have rotten vegetables thrown at them by the watching children.
I voted LEAVE as well, Max.
The problem I have is we have entrusted the economic future of our country to Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis and Liam Fox.
I wouldn't entrust my crown jewels to a psychopath with a rusty saw but that's what we've done by handing power to this group of halfwits.
We are right to leave the EU - the problem is the people who will be arranging our future andf the "deal" they will arrange for us. That's where the real damage is going to be done.
The alternative being that we have the keys of Westminster palace to Juncker and Merkel. We may have handed them to said psychopath, but at least they are our psychopaths who can be voted out and not ones who we have no power to remove and are no less psychopathic.
The modern remainer, the people don't matter, only the EU and our submission to it. I can't wait for them to be routed again and again until they can take no more.
I proudly voted to Remain but accept that we are leaving. There are winners and losers but there are no traitors. Let's just try to heal now.
If you regard 48% of the country as traitors you're going to need a damned big secret service (an recruit a lot of immigrants to staff it!)
Not 48%. Most of those who voted remain are reconciled to leaving, of the few that aren't most of those accept it is going to happen even if they don't personally agree. There is, however, a small proportion who want to subvert the will of the people and actively wish harm on our nation and would do whatever it takes to see this country bend the knee for Juncker and Merkel. Those traitors should be publicly flogged in Trafalgar Square and have rotten vegetables thrown at them by the watching children.
As someone who voted remain but accepts the reality of Brexit this is what I think will probably happen. 1. Brexit turns out to be a heap of shit, UK comes crashing out with no deal 2. The threat of an alternative economic model turns out to be bluster because the english are actually lazy as shit with an unjustified sense of entitlement and in any case are now at a competitive disadvantage due to abandoning the preferential trade arrangements resulting from being in the single market. 3. UK loses credit rating and goes bankrupt. 4. Scotland decides to become an independent country and rejoins the EU. UK decomission nuclear deterrent due to no money. 4a. Many years of tortuous negotiations over break up of England and scotland, lots of animosity, opportunistic foreign involvement etc. 5. There is some kind of reunification of Ireland based around a desire for Northern Ireland to remain in the EU and not have a hard border. 6. Grim and tortuous process of nation building in England 7. Medieval barbarity reintroduced in to the justice system. 8. Eventually England rejoin the EU on crap terms as brexitloons die out.
Its not great but its better than the alternative, which is for the decision to be overturned by experts and career politicians. Better in the long run for democracy to run its course.
@JosiasJessop - quite a flimsy bit of evidence, and I don't recall there being any question of it's authenticity of the time. Perhaps a more cautious approach to reporting on such matters would be the correct approach.
What sort of evidence do you expect in a story about someone allegedly writing something nasty on a receipt?
Impeccable witnesses, such as a nun, a doctor and a judge who witnessed him write it? CSI-style infinizoom CCTV that shows him writing it? The perpetrator covering his face in a black cloak and saying: "Mwahahaha! I did it!"
It was a story about some writing on a receipt. That was provided.
It seems we all want reporters to be cautious on stories we don't like, yet are perfectly happy to accuse them of covering up on other occasions. Oh, and then there's the demand for information whenever anything happens.
The waitress might have lied. How is a reporter to ascertain that in what was, originally, a page-filer story?
I'm not saying they couldn't run it without evidence, just that the evidence on its own isn't a slam dunk. The original article should have reflected that, and caveated it with the fact they only have one side of the story.
There's an important point here: what was the 'original article'? There are so many stories about this floating around, mainly copied from each other as it spread around the world.
It should be noted that the rebuttal story Sean linked to is perhaps more guilty of lacking caveats than the 'original' (or nearest to original) ones I've been able to find.
I'm not a fan of the press. Every story I've seen published that I've known something about has been inaccurate in one way or another. Including one where a building fire was placed on a street on the other side of Derby, when the fire would have been visible from the newspaper offices!
However despite that, I don't want the media to go too far the other way. That would be a recipe for all sorts of cover-ups and messiness. That's why I'm against the Leveson findings. The media are generally cr@p, but they're better free and cr@p than bound and cr@p.
Even the BBC's article didn't include a disclaimer stating that the facts could not easily be verified, or how easy it was for anyone to write anything on the bottom there.
Welcome back, Mr. Calum (wish I'd followed your SNP tips).
Labour must be glad there's no SNP equivalent in England. Otherwise they'd be looking at total collapse.
A patriotic, pro european social democrat party would certainly get my vote. Vote Lib Dem!
In case the Edit function hasn't timed out yet - you typed "patriotic" by accident.
Just trying to help out.
They are patriots. EU patriots.
Nope. SNP are pro EU Scottish patriots, Lib Dems pro EU British patriots.
The idea of selling your soul to the undemocratic EU is patriotic is beyond scorn
I think that both Paddy Ashdown and Margaret Thatcher could reasonably be described as patriots :-)
Maggie who was more Eurosceptic than any of the current lot of jellyfish. She saw what the EU meant for this nation towards the end of her reign and the traitors in the party deposed her for it. Now they have almost all been eliminated within the party structure. Only Ken and Anna Soubry left, hopefully they get eliminated soon as well. I'd rather have Labour MPs than those two traitors.
At this point in time one can either be in favour of the EU and a traitor or be in favour of leave and a patriot. I know where I stand, quisling Lib Dems and useful idiots like Soubry on the other hand, well we know they all want our country to beg the EU for forgiveness for turning away from their nightmarish vision of this country as part of a greater German empire.
So Maggie spent most of her life as a traitor, and only became a patriot after she left office? how unfortunate :-)
How is living as a migrant in a Schengen country going by the way? Homesick for us in Blighty yet?
Living in the most right wing country in Europe that isn't in the EU is pretty nice actually, but I'm here in the UK this weekend. Wedding to attend tomorrow.
La La Land is a mediocre film in a mediocre year for films.
Just seen Toni Erdmann this evening. What a film! I think it might have a good chance in foreign film.
It won the Lux prize. Euroskeptics look away now...
The European Parliament LUX Prize is a prize given to a competing film by the European Parliament. Introduced in 2007, it is named after the unit of illuminance, "lux", which is Latin for "light". The objective of the LUX Prize is to illuminate the public debate on European integration and to facilitate the diffusion of European films in the European Union.
Films to be selected have to meet following criteria:
- Fiction or documentary films (may be animated) - Minimum length of 60 minutes - Produced or co-produced in a European Union country or in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland - Illustrates the universality of European values and the diversity of European culture, bringing insights into the debate on the process of building Europe
Nice to know what your taxpayer's cash gets spent on, isn't it? :-)
The modern remainer, the people don't matter, only the EU and our submission to it. I can't wait for them to be routed again and again until they can take no more.
I proudly voted to Remain but accept that we are leaving. There are winners and losers but there are no traitors. Let's just try to heal now.
I voted remain as well and really do want the Country to heal and get behind a successful Brexit
If you regard 48% of the country as traitors you're going to need a damned big secret service (an recruit a lot of immigrants to staff it!)
Not 48%. Most of those who voted remain are reconciled to leaving, of the few that aren't most of those accept it is going to happen even if they don't personally agree. There is, however, a small proportion who want to subvert the will of the people and actively wish harm on our nation and would do whatever it takes to see this country bend the knee for Juncker and Merkel. Those traitors should be publicly flogged in Trafalgar Square and have rotten vegetables thrown at them by the watching children.
As someone who voted remain but accepts the reality of Brexit this is what I think will probably happen. 1. Brexit turns out to be a heap of shit, UK comes crashing out with no deal 2. The threat of an alternative economic model turns out to be bluster because the english are actually lazy as shit with an unjustified sense of entitlement and in any case are now at a competitive disadvantage due to abandoning the preferential trade arrangements resulting from being in the single market. 3. UK loses credit rating and goes bankrupt. 4. Scotland decides to become an independent country and rejoins the EU. UK decomission nuclear deterrent due to no money. 4a. Many years of tortuous negotiations over break up of England and scotland, lots of animosity, opportunistic foreign involvement etc. 5. There is some kind of reunification of Ireland based around a desire for Northern Ireland to remain in the EU and not have a hard border. 6. Grim and tortuous process of nation building in England 7. Medieval barbarity reintroduced in to the justice system. 8. Eventually England rejoin the EU on crap terms as brexitloons die out.
Its not great but its better than the alternative, which is for the decision to be overturned by experts and career politicians. Better in the long run for democracy to run its course.
Would you be disappointed if those things didn't happen?
If you regard 48% of the country as traitors you're going to need a damned big secret service (an recruit a lot of immigrants to staff it!)
Not 48%. Most of those who voted remain are reconciled to leaving, of the few that aren't most of those accept it is going to happen even if they don't personally agree. There is, however, a small proportion who want to subvert the will of the people and actively wish harm on our nation and would do whatever it takes to see this country bend the knee for Juncker and Merkel. Those traitors should be publicly flogged in Trafalgar Square and have rotten vegetables thrown at them by the watching children.
As someone who voted remain but accepts the reality of Brexit this is what I think will probably happen. 1. Brexit turns out to be a heap of shit, UK comes crashing out with no deal 2. The threat of an alternative economic model turns out to be bluster because the english are actually lazy as shit with an unjustified sense of entitlement and in any case are now at a competitive disadvantage due to abandoning the preferential trade arrangements resulting from being in the single market. 3. UK loses credit rating and goes bankrupt. 4. Scotland decides to become an independent country and rejoins the EU. UK decomission nuclear deterrent due to no money. 4a. Many years of tortuous negotiations over break up of England and scotland, lots of animosity, opportunistic foreign involvement etc. 5. There is some kind of reunification of Ireland based around a desire for Northern Ireland to remain in the EU and not have a hard border. 6. Grim and tortuous process of nation building in England 7. Medieval barbarity reintroduced in to the justice system. 8. Eventually England rejoin the EU on crap terms as brexitloons die out.
Its not great but its better than the alternative, which is for the decision to be overturned by experts and career politicians. Better in the long run for democracy to run its course.
Your hopes and dreams will not be matched by reality. However much you wish this country to fail, Britain is a great nation and will weather any adversity and the likes of you who wish is ill.
If you regard 48% of the country as traitors you're going to need a damned big secret service (an recruit a lot of immigrants to staff it!)
Not 48%. Most of those who voted remain are reconciled to leaving, of the few that aren't most of those accept it is going to happen even if they don't personally agree. There is, however, a small proportion who want to subvert the will of the people and actively wish harm on our nation and would do whatever it takes to see this country bend the knee for Juncker and Merkel. Those traitors should be publicly flogged in Trafalgar Square and have rotten vegetables thrown at them by the watching children.
As someone who voted remain but accepts the reality of Brexit this is what I think will probably happen. 1. Brexit turns out to be a heap of shit, UK comes crashing out with no deal 2. The threat of an alternative economic model turns out to be bluster because the english are actually lazy as shit with an unjustified sense of entitlement and in any case are now at a competitive disadvantage due to abandoning the preferential trade arrangements resulting from being in the single market. 3. UK loses credit rating and goes bankrupt. 4. Scotland decides to become an independent country and rejoins the EU. UK decomission nuclear deterrent due to no money. 4a. Many years of tortuous negotiations over break up of England and scotland, lots of animosity, opportunistic foreign involvement etc. 5. There is some kind of reunification of Ireland based around a desire for Northern Ireland to remain in the EU and not have a hard border. 6. Grim and tortuous process of nation building in England 7. Medieval barbarity reintroduced in to the justice system. 8. Eventually England rejoin the EU on crap terms as brexitloons die out.
Its not great but its better than the alternative, which is for the decision to be overturned by experts and career politicians. Better in the long run for democracy to run its course.
Your hopes and dreams will not be matched by reality. However much you wish this country to fail, Britain is a great nation and will weather any adversity and the likes of you who wish is ill.
The United Kingdom, or just Britain or even just England? How many traitorous appendages are you prepared to chop off in the name of patriotism?
.... but at least they are our psychopaths who can be voted out
Really?
How do we do that without an opposition? We are a one-party state at the moment and the Tories are the only game in town
That will change.
When? Any time in the next 10 years? 2030?
I find it extremely hard to believe (no matter how much I want it) that it will be Tory hegemony for the next 10/15 years.
I do NOT want a Tory Hegemony for the next 10/15 years, not because I am anti-tory but because a govt of any political colour needs to know that it can be tossed out by the electorate. That is vital for a healthy democracy.
Your hopes and dreams will not be matched by reality. However much you wish this country to fail, Britain is a great nation and will weather any adversity and the likes of you who wish is ill.
I always find the Brexit doomsday scenarios laughable. It simply isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, we have faced and conquered far worse events in our history. Even the official worst case was a short sharp recession with slightly slower growth after leaving the EU, and now it doesn't look like we will face that.
If leaving the EU is the biggest problem we face in the next few decades the UK will be a very fortunate nation indeed.
.... but at least they are our psychopaths who can be voted out
Really?
How do we do that without an opposition? We are a one-party state at the moment and the Tories are the only game in town
That will change.
When? Any time in the next 10 years? 2030?
I find it extremely hard to believe (no matter how much I want it) that it will be Tory hegemony for the next 10/15 years.
I do NOT want a Tory Hegemony for the next 10/15 years, not because I am anti-tory but because a govt of any political colour needs to know that it can be tossed out by the electorate. That is vital for a healthy democracy.
Like I said, find it very hard to believe that will actually happen.
There can be no disguising the calamity that last week’s byelection results suggested for the Labour party, no extenuating circumstance that can excuse the performance of an institution that was once a great power. They were a dismal verdict on the state of her majesty’s opposition. Labour’s continuing decline should concern not just Labour supporters but anyone who cares about effective government and the checks and balances provided by decent scrutiny from a functioning opposition. It is difficult to remember a time when the official opposition was so weak in organisation, bereft of ideas, inept at basic politics and at the same time so supremely arrogant in the presumption of its own righteousness. And no amount of puerile blame-shifting by Jeremy Corbyn and his acolytes – it was the fault of Peter Mandelson, fake news, the “establishment” etc – can hide the dire reality of their predicament.
A temporary problem. Handing the keys to Juncker and Merkel as you would have us do is irreversible.
Really? What nonsense. It was the Lisbon Treaty that was the first EU treaty to codify the leaving process. You may have heard of it, they call it Article 50.
What keys would we hand over? What was there to stop us leaving at any future time.... exactly like we are doing now.
Brexit, OTOH, has the potential to wreck the UK or damage it very severely for decades to come.
Your hopes and dreams will not be matched by reality. However much you wish this country to fail, Britain is a great nation and will weather any adversity and the likes of you who wish is ill.
I always find the Brexit doomsday scenarios laughable. It simply isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, we have faced and conquered far worse events in our history. Even the official worst case was a short sharp recession with slightly slower growth after leaving the EU, and now it doesn't look like we will face that.
If leaving the EU is the biggest problem we face in the next few decades the UK will be a very fortunate nation indeed.
The thing is, virtually nobody really gives a toss about the EU; as OGH has often pointed out it has unfailingly come last in salient issues polling for decades. The sound and fury in the current debate isn't because people care about the issue per se, it's because it is an issue which you only have to examine for 2 seconds to see which side someone with your particular set of prejudices would be on, if they cared. It is as if we found an exoplanet in the Tharg star system dominated by a bloated life form with whitish skin called the Zories, who liked to go qox hunting and plot to privatise the Galactic Health Service while all the work got done by indentured peasants called the morbyns. Nutters on both sides are not really passionate about the EU either way, they are enraged by the existence of an outgroup whose members very dare not to adhere to their own dreary, and almost always culturally imposed rather than arrived at by the exercise of thought, value systems.
There can be no disguising the calamity that last week’s byelection results suggested for the Labour party, no extenuating circumstance that can excuse the performance of an institution that was once a great power. They were a dismal verdict on the state of her majesty’s opposition. Labour’s continuing decline should concern not just Labour supporters but anyone who cares about effective government and the checks and balances provided by decent scrutiny from a functioning opposition. It is difficult to remember a time when the official opposition was so weak in organisation, bereft of ideas, inept at basic politics and at the same time so supremely arrogant in the presumption of its own righteousness. And no amount of puerile blame-shifting by Jeremy Corbyn and his acolytes – it was the fault of Peter Mandelson, fake news, the “establishment” etc – can hide the dire reality of their predicament.
La La Land is a mediocre film in a mediocre year for films.
Just seen Toni Erdmann this evening. What a film! I think it might have a good chance in foreign film.
It won the Lux prize. Euroskeptics look away now...
The European Parliament LUX Prize is a prize given to a competing film by the European Parliament. Introduced in 2007, it is named after the unit of illuminance, "lux", which is Latin for "light". The objective of the LUX Prize is to illuminate the public debate on European integration and to facilitate the diffusion of European films in the European Union.
Films to be selected have to meet following criteria:
- Fiction or documentary films (may be animated) - Minimum length of 60 minutes - Produced or co-produced in a European Union country or in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland - Illustrates the universality of European values and the diversity of European culture, bringing insights into the debate on the process of building Europe
Nice to know what your taxpayer's cash gets spent on, isn't it? :-)
It lasts three hours.
"Illustrates the universality of European values and the diversity of European culture, bringing insights into the debate on the process of building Europe"
It certainly illustrated the diversity of European culture but not universality or insights. The main message I got was to create memorable moments.
If you regard 48% of the country as traitors you're going to need a damned big secret service (an recruit a lot of immigrants to staff it!)
Not 48%. Most of those who voted remain are reconciled to leaving, of the few that aren't most of those accept it is going to happen even if they don't personally agree. There is, however, a small proportion who want to subvert the will of the people and actively wish harm on our nation and would do whatever it takes to see this country bend the knee for Juncker and Merkel. Those traitors should be publicly flogged in Trafalgar Square and have rotten vegetables thrown at them by the watching children.
As someone who voted remain but accepts the reality of Brexit this is what I think will probably happen. 1. Brexit turns out to be a heap of shit, UK comes crashing out with no deal 2. The threat of an alternative economic model turns out to be bluster because the english are actually lazy as shit with an unjustified sense of entitlement and in any case are now at a competitive disadvantage due to abandoning the preferential trade arrangements resulting from being in the single market. 3. UK loses credit rating and goes bankrupt. 4. Scotland decides to become an independent country and rejoins the EU. UK decomission nuclear deterrent due to no money. 4a. Many years of tortuous negotiations over break up of England and scotland, lots of animosity, opportunistic foreign involvement etc. 5. There is some kind of reunification of Ireland based around a desire for Northern Ireland to remain in the EU and not have a hard border. 6. Grim and tortuous process of nation building in England 7. Medieval barbarity reintroduced in to the justice system. 8. Eventually England rejoin the EU on crap terms as brexitloons die out.
Its not great but its better than the alternative, which is for the decision to be overturned by experts and career politicians. Better in the long run for democracy to run its course.
Would you be disappointed if those things didn't happen?
I didn't say I want those things to happen. These are things I think will happen. Everything that has happened since Brexit points in this direction. The 'will of the people' is actually not about Brexit, it is about the creation of an independent England, and turning back three decades of globalisation whilst trying to keep all the economic benefits of it. Still if that is the course people want to embark on, then so be it.
Listen out in the next few months for the sound of Britain’s Brexit plan crashing onto the rocks, with a Prime Minister at the helm convinced she can repeat the trick right up to the moment that the boat starts to run aground.
Participants tell the Guardian that they were struck by the contrast between McMaster’s worldview and that of the president, who has repeatedly used a phrase that Muslims in the US and globally feel portrays them as threats to be confronted.
A participant, paraphrasing McMaster, said: “He said he doesn’t want to call it radical Islamic terrorism because the terrorists are, quote, ‘un-Islamic’.”
McMaster, the participant said, indicated that the phrase castigates “an entire religion” and “he’s not on board”.
At the meeting, multiple sources said, McMaster discomfited White House staffers who view the terrorist threat in those religious terms and who were said to have exchanged awkward looks with each other.
At other points in the meeting, McMaster laid out a vigorous defense of the post-second world war liberal order, calling it a guarantor of peace and economic prosperity. Staffers inferred that McMaster was signaling to professional staff on the National Security Council that he subscribed to longstanding US foreign-policy goals, which Trump has attacked as yielding a chaotic world.
One source said McMaster was “very clear” that he viewed Russia “as an adversary”, a position not shared by Trump and which is at the center of a Washington firestorm – one which brought down McMaster’s predecessor, Michael Flynn.
Very interesting.
I've always been a fan of H.R. McMaster
In fact tomorrow is the 26th anniversary of what first introduced to me Captain McMaster's brilliance.
The Battle of 73 Easting, where Captain McMaster's awesomeness was on display.
He led a group of 9 US tank which managed to destroy nearly 90 Iraqi tanks and other vehicles, he wasn't facing conscripts but the Republican Guard troops, the relative crème de la crème of the Iraqi army.
Welcome back, Mr. Calum (wish I'd followed your SNP tips).
Labour must be glad there's no SNP equivalent in England. Otherwise they'd be looking at total collapse.
A patriotic, pro european social democrat party would certainly get my vote. Vote Lib Dem!
In case the Edit function hasn't timed out yet - you typed "patriotic" by accident.
Just trying to help out.
They are patriots. EU patriots.
Nope. SNP are pro EU Scottish patriots, Lib Dems pro EU British patriots.
The idea of selling your soul to the undemocratic EU is patriotic is beyond scorn
Britain's broken system being, of course, a paragon of democratic excellence?
So , our system isn't perfect.
This merits us staying in a hugely undemocratic EU?
Well, that's going to take some selling - good luck
I think you miss my point. It is as possible to be proud to be British, as I am, whilst seeing the myriad imperfections in our supposedly democratic system of domestic governance as it is to support European co-operation and integration whilst recognising that the EU as constituted leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accountability and transparency.
Welcome back, Mr. Calum (wish I'd followed your SNP tips).
Labour must be glad there's no SNP equivalent in England. Otherwise they'd be looking at total collapse.
A patriotic, pro european social democrat party would certainly get my vote. Vote Lib Dem!
In case the Edit function hasn't timed out yet - you typed "patriotic" by accident.
Just trying to help out.
They are patriots. EU patriots.
Nope. SNP are pro EU Scottish patriots, Lib Dems pro EU British patriots.
The idea of selling your soul to the undemocratic EU is patriotic is beyond scorn
Britain's broken system being, of course, a paragon of democratic excellence?
So , our system isn't perfect.
This merits us staying in a hugely undemocratic EU?
Well, that's going to take some selling - good luck
I think you miss my point. It is as possible to be proud to be British, as I am, whilst seeing the myriad imperfections in our supposedly democratic system of domestic governance as it is to support European co-operation and integration whilst recognising that the EU as constituted leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accountability and transparency.
Nutters on both sides are not really passionate about the EU either way, they are enraged by the existence of an outgroup whose members very dare not to adhere to their own dreary, and almost always culturally imposed rather than arrived at by the exercise of thought, value systems.
Yes I think a lot of the Remain venom is not due to practical changes that leaving the EU will necessitate or the likely minor economic effects, but a combination of fear and anger that the consensus was broken by people who by and large are politically unengaged and generally safe to ignore. They don't like it one bit.
Some Leavers would have been just as bad if defeated, we'd be hearing all sorts of bonkers conspiracy theories about how the vote was stolen.
Anyway my point about it not being a big deal was really due to thinking about the same period of the 20th century. The Great War, Spanish flu, great depression, World War II in a couple of decades, and lots more to follow. Leaving the EU is a walk in the park compared to stuff like that.
Blimey .... Hitler only managed Denmark and Norway with Finland as allies !!
I went to Copenhagen last year and loved it. Stockholm next, but wanted to take the ferry to Finland, possibly via the Aland islands, then onto Estonia.
Any PBeres have any advice on spots? planning just public transport, no panzers or stukas...
Suomelina (won't have spelt it right) worth going to - a UNESCO world heritage site in the middle of Helsinki harbour.
If you are going to Estonia I'd head out to Kolga, the hereditary home of the von Stenbock de la Garde de le Porte D'Esti family (roughly translates as the Stone Goats who Guard the Portals of the East). Nice castle and Nilla Stenbock is very pretty.
Nutters on both sides are not really passionate about the EU either way, they are enraged by the existence of an outgroup whose members very dare not to adhere to their own dreary, and almost always culturally imposed rather than arrived at by the exercise of thought, value systems.
Yes I think a lot of the Remain venom is not due to practical changes that leaving the EU will necessitate or the likely minor economic effects, but a combination of fear and anger that the consensus was broken by people who by and large are politically unengaged and generally safe to ignore. They don't like it one bit.
Some Leavers would have been just as bad if defeated, we'd be hearing all sorts of bonkers conspiracy theories about how the vote was stolen.
We already heard some of those theories....e.g. bringing your own pen to the polling place.
There can be no disguising the calamity that last week’s byelection results suggested for the Labour party, no extenuating circumstance that can excuse the performance of an institution that was once a great power. They were a dismal verdict on the state of her majesty’s opposition. Labour’s continuing decline should concern not just Labour supporters but anyone who cares about effective government and the checks and balances provided by decent scrutiny from a functioning opposition. It is difficult to remember a time when the official opposition was so weak in organisation, bereft of ideas, inept at basic politics and at the same time so supremely arrogant in the presumption of its own righteousness. And no amount of puerile blame-shifting by Jeremy Corbyn and his acolytes – it was the fault of Peter Mandelson, fake news, the “establishment” etc – can hide the dire reality of their predicament.
The claim the votes were because the establishment as been failing people was the most hilarious - as has been put, it's a funny way of sticking it to the establishment by voting for the party of government.
I thought the word 'flocking' was considered beyond the pale?
Not any more it seems. Brave New World....
It was just a word, and far from as loaded a word as was pretended, to the detriment of actual debate by focusing on trivial matters on how policy was expressed rather than policy itself.
Participants tell the Guardian that they were struck by the contrast between McMaster’s worldview and that of the president, who has repeatedly used a phrase that Muslims in the US and globally feel portrays them as threats to be confronted.
A participant, paraphrasing McMaster, said: “He said he doesn’t want to call it radical Islamic terrorism because the terrorists are, quote, ‘un-Islamic’.”
McMaster, the participant said, indicated that the phrase castigates “an entire religion” and “he’s not on board”.
At the meeting, multiple sources said, McMaster discomfited White House staffers who view the terrorist threat in those religious terms and who were said to have exchanged awkward looks with each other.
At other points in the meeting, McMaster laid out a vigorous defense of the post-second world war liberal order, calling it a guarantor of peace and economic prosperity. Staffers inferred that McMaster was signaling to professional staff on the National Security Council that he subscribed to longstanding US foreign-policy goals, which Trump has attacked as yielding a chaotic world.
One source said McMaster was “very clear” that he viewed Russia “as an adversary”, a position not shared by Trump and which is at the center of a Washington firestorm – one which brought down McMaster’s predecessor, Michael Flynn.
Very interesting.
I've always been a fan of H.R. McMaster
In fact tomorrow is the 26th anniversary of what first introduced to me Captain McMaster's brilliance.
The Battle of 73 Easting, where Captain McMaster's awesomeness was on display.
He led a group of 9 US tanks which managed to destroy nearly 90 Iraqi tanks and other vehicles, he wasn't facing conscripts but the Republican Guard troops, the relative crème de la crème of the Iraqi army.
Nutters on both sides are not really passionate about the EU either way, they are enraged by the existence of an outgroup whose members very dare not to adhere to their own dreary, and almost always culturally imposed rather than arrived at by the exercise of thought, value systems.
Some Leavers would have been just as bad if defeated, we'd be hearing all sorts of bonkers conspiracy theories about how the vote was stolen.
No question. And calls for a rerun if it was close.
A temporary problem. Handing the keys to Juncker and Merkel as you would have us do is irreversible.
Really? What nonsense. It was the Lisbon Treaty that was the first EU treaty to codify the leaving process. You may have heard of it, they call it Article 50.
What keys would we hand over? What was there to stop us leaving at any future time.... exactly like we are doing now.
Brexit, OTOH, has the potential to wreck the UK or damage it very severely for decades to come.
Would that be the Lisbon Treaty, aka the EU Constitution, on which we were promised a referendum by shit-drooling europhile traitors like you, only for that promise to be hastily forgotten, as soon as it was politically feasible?
That one, right? That Treaty? Yes? That one?
This is the problem for nasty pungent little euro-quislings, such as yourself (no offence). Your endless decades of lies and evasions and outright fraudulence have caught up with you. If you'd given us a vote, as promised, on the many prior times we were promised a vote, we'd have stopped integration, and Brexit would never have happened, as it would never have been necessary.
The lying europhile elite of the UK engineered Brexit by mistake. Piquant.
You got your referendum.
You got your Brexit.
What are you so scared of that justifies that rant up there ^^^^^
Isn't it bloody marvellous! We get a Conservative government (with a majority of 16) for the first time for donkeys' years and we are accused of maintaining a one party state.
The claim the votes were because the establishment as been failing people was the most hilarious - as has been put, it's a funny way of sticking it to the establishment by voting for the party of government.
Corbyn speaks in slogans and appears to have no appetite or capacity to engage in new, innovative ways of addressing a range of issues that confront Labour.
Well sure, Observer, but that lack of new, innovative ways to address issues was part of his appeal - a man who has not changed his views in any significant way for 30 years, and for whom that is a positive, isn't coming up with new ideas. Only trying to apply the old ones again would be 'new', if far from innovative.
Participants tell the Guardian that they were struck by the contrast between McMaster’s worldview and that of the president, who has repeatedly used a phrase that Muslims in the US and globally feel portrays them as threats to be confronted.
A participant, paraphrasing McMaster, said: “He said he doesn’t want to call it radical Islamic terrorism because the terrorists are, quote, ‘un-Islamic’.”
McMaster, the participant said, indicated that the phrase castigates “an entire religion” and “he’s not on board”.
At the meeting, multiple sources said, McMaster discomfited White House staffers who view the terrorist threat in those religious terms and who were said to have exchanged awkward looks with each other.
At other points in the meeting, McMaster laid out a vigorous defense of the post-second world war liberal order, calling it a guarantor of peace and economic prosperity. Staffers inferred that McMaster was signaling to professional staff on the National Security Council that he subscribed to longstanding US foreign-policy goals, which Trump has attacked as yielding a chaotic world.
One source said McMaster was “very clear” that he viewed Russia “as an adversary”, a position not shared by Trump and which is at the center of a Washington firestorm – one which brought down McMaster’s predecessor, Michael Flynn.
Very interesting.
I've always been a fan of H.R. McMaster
In fact tomorrow is the 26th anniversary of what first introduced to me Captain McMaster's brilliance.
The Battle of 73 Easting, where Captain McMaster's awesomeness was on display.
He led a group of 9 US tanks which managed to destroy nearly 90 Iraqi tanks and other vehicles, he wasn't facing conscripts but the Republican Guard troops, the relative crème de la crème of the Iraqi army.
I am proud of my identity as a European. I belong to the greatest civilisation in human history. And live in the world's most beautiful, richly historic continent: Europe.
I am not proud of my country's slow, unwanted absorption into a detestable undemocratic, economically stagnant, quasi-superstate which wilfully impoverishes its weaker member nations. So I am delighted we are Leaving.
There is no contradiction between these positions.
Meh. Not sure that was all that insightful actually. Impossible to know whether TMay is a plankbrained thickhead who persists in believing that all European negotiations work precisely like her sole previous experience of European negotiations, and will therefore stuff this one up, or whether she is mentally plus-quam-pea-sized, in which case she will recognise that not all European negotiations work the same as each other.
I'm not saying it's impossible that she is being misled by her previous experiences - 'tis entirely plausible - but it's worth considering the counter-factuals too, which make the article's claims rather less impressive.
If TMay had zero experience of European negotations, we would be looking at an equivalent article that proclaims "TMay is being misled at how easy European negotiations are, because her previous negotiation experience was not in an EU context". What an asset some prior EU negotiation experience would be!
If TMay had some other, non-zero experience of European negotiations, whatever kind of negotiations they were would not have been the complex, full-spectrum affair that Brexit will be. There would obviously be important aspects in which her experience was not representative of the challenges she was about to face, so we would be reading an article about the way in which the asset of her previous experience could actually be a down-side as it was leading her to false expectations about the way Brexit negotiations will work.
If TMay had previous experience of successfully completing EU withdrawal negotiations .... then we'd be living in a parallel universe and wouldn't be reading such an article. Though if there were a parallel universe in which the Brexit vote had taken place in 2012, and TMay had finished the withdrawal off by 2015, then if anyone from said universe is reading (we do seem to have all kinds of prominent lurkers on here) it would be quite nice if we could borrow your incarnation of TMay for a bit. Ta much.
SeanT Couldn't you wangle a freebie at Gidleigh Park?
I know Gidleigh very well. Been visiting for years. 30 years ago me and my mates took Ecstasy in their woodland, skinny dipped in their weir, then got dressed, came down to the hotel, and had enormous warm scones cooked by Shaun Hill himself. Oh my life.
I got a Times freebie at Gidleigh last year. The food is still sublime, the views amazing (I didn't do E this time), it's a world class hotel. But in terms of value for money (for a 5 star hotel) Boringdon is seriously better.
Really? I was there last night with the Good Lady Wifi. Thought it was still finding its feet (she completely rejigged the lighting - got the Sommelier taking out light bulbs, firing up candelabras, giving it some ambience in the dining room we were in; but other rooms looked beyond hope).
The spa looked top drawer though, she reckoned.
Food was fine dining. But looking forward to Michael Caines' new venture after Gidleigh - it's Lympstone Manor near Exeter. He's spending a fortune on it, and the images I've seen look very luxurious. I recently blagged a tasting menu for two from Michael when it opens. I'll report back....
That's not a rant. That's me making a measured assessment of the facts, and a calm appraisal of your wretchedly boring personality and disgusting, worthless opinions. You're relatively new here, however, so I will kindly overlook your misprision.
I am indeed relatively new here - I have only been on PB for about five or six years.
That's not a rant. That's me making a measured assessment of the facts, and a calm appraisal of your wretchedly boring personality and disgusting, worthless opinions. You're relatively new here, however, so I will kindly overlook your misprision.
I am indeed relatively new here - I have only been on PB for about five or six years.
That means you weren't around for the smiling Gordons. I pity you
.... but at least they are our psychopaths who can be voted out
Really?
How do we do that without an opposition? We are a one-party state at the moment and the Tories are the only game in town
That will change.
When? Any time in the next 10 years? 2030?
I find it extremely hard to believe (no matter how much I want it) that it will be Tory hegemony for the next 10/15 years.
I do NOT want a Tory Hegemony for the next 10/15 years, not because I am anti-tory but because a govt of any political colour needs to know that it can be tossed out by the electorate. That is vital for a healthy democracy.
The irony contained within that post is stunning. Healthy for democracy to be able to kick the buggers out eh- except when talking about the EU.
That's not a rant. That's me making a measured assessment of the facts, and a calm appraisal of your wretchedly boring personality and disgusting, worthless opinions. You're relatively new here, however, so I will kindly overlook your misprision.
I am indeed relatively new here - I have only been on PB for about five or six years.
Comments
However: regardless of what they were told off the record by authority figures, the Sun were blatantly crass and unsympathetic in publishing that headline and story at that time. It was a sensationalist attempt to get sales on the back of a tragedy.
It had little to do with 'the truth', and all to do with sales.
It's also different to the Blair situation; the 45 minute claim was in the foreward of a published government dossier, and the PM himself said the words. That's a very different level of evidence from the Sun at Hillsborough.
I hope this has not offended anyone.
This is what Corbyn wrote
Labour’s share of the vote in Copeland has been falling for 20 years and of course I take my share of responsibility.
Not 48%. Most of those who voted remain are reconciled to leaving, of the few that aren't most of those accept it is going to happen even if they don't personally agree. There is, however, a small proportion who want to subvert the will of the people and actively wish harm on our nation and would do whatever it takes to see this country bend the knee for Juncker and Merkel. Those traitors should be publicly flogged in Trafalgar Square and have rotten vegetables thrown at them by the watching children.
The problem I have is we have entrusted the economic future of our country to Theresa May, Boris Johnson, David Davis and Liam Fox.
I wouldn't entrust my crown jewels to a psychopath with a rusty saw but that's what we've done by handing power to this group of halfwits.
We are right to leave the EU - the problem is the people who will be arranging our future andf the "deal" they will arrange for us. That's where the real damage is going to be done.
It should be noted that the rebuttal story Sean linked to is perhaps more guilty of lacking caveats than the 'original' (or nearest to original) ones I've been able to find.
I'm not a fan of the press. Every story I've seen published that I've known something about has been inaccurate in one way or another. Including one where a building fire was placed on a street on the other side of Derby, when the fire would have been visible from the newspaper offices!
However despite that, I don't want the media to go too far the other way. That would be a recipe for all sorts of cover-ups and messiness. That's why I'm against the Leveson findings. The media are generally cr@p, but they're better free and cr@p than bound and cr@p.
This merits us staying in a hugely undemocratic EU?
Well, that's going to take some selling - good luck
And surely it should be: "having nearly gone madder" ?
More importantly, how much are the hotel giving you for this plug? If nothing, you're missing an opportunity ...
How is living as a migrant in a Schengen country going by the way? Homesick for us in Blighty yet?
1. Brexit turns out to be a heap of shit, UK comes crashing out with no deal
2. The threat of an alternative economic model turns out to be bluster because the english are actually lazy as shit with an unjustified sense of entitlement and in any case are now at a competitive disadvantage due to abandoning the preferential trade arrangements resulting from being in the single market.
3. UK loses credit rating and goes bankrupt.
4. Scotland decides to become an independent country and rejoins the EU. UK decomission nuclear deterrent due to no money.
4a. Many years of tortuous negotiations over break up of England and scotland, lots of animosity, opportunistic foreign involvement etc.
5. There is some kind of reunification of Ireland based around a desire for Northern Ireland to remain in the EU and not have a hard border.
6. Grim and tortuous process of nation building in England
7. Medieval barbarity reintroduced in to the justice system.
8. Eventually England rejoin the EU on crap terms as brexitloons die out.
Its not great but its better than the alternative, which is for the decision to be overturned by experts and career politicians. Better in the long run for democracy to run its course.
The European Parliament LUX Prize is a prize given to a competing film by the European Parliament. Introduced in 2007, it is named after the unit of illuminance, "lux", which is Latin for "light". The objective of the LUX Prize is to illuminate the public debate on European integration and to facilitate the diffusion of European films in the European Union.
Films to be selected have to meet following criteria:
- Fiction or documentary films (may be animated)
- Minimum length of 60 minutes
- Produced or co-produced in a European Union country or in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland
- Illustrates the universality of European values and the diversity of European culture, bringing insights into the debate on the process of building Europe
Nice to know what your taxpayer's cash gets spent on, isn't it? :-)
Duh!
Really?
How do we do that without an opposition? We are a one-party state at the moment and the Tories are the only game in town
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/feb/06/anna-soubry-owen-jones-never-forgive-boris-johnson-video
If leaving the EU is the biggest problem we face in the next few decades the UK will be a very fortunate nation indeed.
There can be no disguising the calamity that last week’s byelection results suggested for the Labour party, no extenuating circumstance that can excuse the performance of an institution that was once a great power. They were a dismal verdict on the state of her majesty’s opposition. Labour’s continuing decline should concern not just Labour supporters but anyone who cares about effective government and the checks and balances provided by decent scrutiny from a functioning opposition. It is difficult to remember a time when the official opposition was so weak in organisation, bereft of ideas, inept at basic politics and at the same time so supremely arrogant in the presumption of its own righteousness. And no amount of puerile blame-shifting by Jeremy Corbyn and his acolytes – it was the fault of Peter Mandelson, fake news, the “establishment” etc – can hide the dire reality of their predicament.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/25/observer-view-on-labour-and-jeremy-corbyn?CMP=soc_3156
What keys would we hand over? What was there to stop us leaving at any future time.... exactly like we are doing now.
Brexit, OTOH, has the potential to wreck the UK or damage it very severely for decades to come.
"Illustrates the universality of European values and the diversity of European culture, bringing insights into the debate on the process of building Europe"
It certainly illustrated the diversity of European culture but not universality or insights. The main message I got was to create memorable moments.
The 'will of the people' is actually not about Brexit, it is about the creation of an independent England, and turning back three decades of globalisation whilst trying to keep all the economic benefits of it.
Still if that is the course people want to embark on, then so be it.
Are we sure this wasn't written by a PBer?
In fact tomorrow is the 26th anniversary of what first introduced to me Captain McMaster's brilliance.
The Battle of 73 Easting, where Captain McMaster's awesomeness was on display.
He led a group of 9 US tank which managed to destroy nearly 90 Iraqi tanks and other vehicles, he wasn't facing conscripts but the Republican Guard troops, the relative crème de la crème of the Iraqi army.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_73_Easting
And the Tories are the British LDP?
Some Leavers would have been just as bad if defeated, we'd be hearing all sorts of bonkers conspiracy theories about how the vote was stolen.
Anyway my point about it not being a big deal was really due to thinking about the same period of the 20th century. The Great War, Spanish flu, great depression, World War II in a couple of decades, and lots more to follow. Leaving the EU is a walk in the park compared to stuff like that.
If you are going to Estonia I'd head out to Kolga, the hereditary home of the von Stenbock de la Garde de le Porte D'Esti family (roughly translates as the Stone Goats who Guard the Portals of the East). Nice castle and Nilla Stenbock is very pretty.
You got your Brexit.
What are you so scared of that justifies that rant up there ^^^^^
Well sure, Observer, but that lack of new, innovative ways to address issues was part of his appeal - a man who has not changed his views in any significant way for 30 years, and for whom that is a positive, isn't coming up with new ideas. Only trying to apply the old ones again would be 'new', if far from innovative.
Not to worry.... in 6 months we will all know better.
October 2016
ARIZONA
Clinton 39 (2 pt lead)
Trump 37
Johnson 8
Stein 3
(october 2016)
The EU is considerably less important to our fortunes than some would have us believe.
I'm not saying it's impossible that she is being misled by her previous experiences - 'tis entirely plausible - but it's worth considering the counter-factuals too, which make the article's claims rather less impressive.
If TMay had zero experience of European negotations, we would be looking at an equivalent article that proclaims "TMay is being misled at how easy European negotiations are, because her previous negotiation experience was not in an EU context". What an asset some prior EU negotiation experience would be!
If TMay had some other, non-zero experience of European negotiations, whatever kind of negotiations they were would not have been the complex, full-spectrum affair that Brexit will be. There would obviously be important aspects in which her experience was not representative of the challenges she was about to face, so we would be reading an article about the way in which the asset of her previous experience could actually be a down-side as it was leading her to false expectations about the way Brexit negotiations will work.
If TMay had previous experience of successfully completing EU withdrawal negotiations .... then we'd be living in a parallel universe and wouldn't be reading such an article. Though if there were a parallel universe in which the Brexit vote had taken place in 2012, and TMay had finished the withdrawal off by 2015, then if anyone from said universe is reading (we do seem to have all kinds of prominent lurkers on here) it would be quite nice if we could borrow your incarnation of TMay for a bit. Ta much.
http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/arizona
The poll were pretty decent overall.
The spa looked top drawer though, she reckoned.
Food was fine dining. But looking forward to Michael Caines' new venture after Gidleigh - it's Lympstone Manor near Exeter. He's spending a fortune on it, and the images I've seen look very luxurious. I recently blagged a tasting menu for two from Michael when it opens. I'll report back....
The Johnson/Stein squeeze helped Clinton in the south.
Jeremy Corbyn MPVerified account
@jeremycorbyn
Welcome @JoStevensLabour to the position of Shadow Welsh Secretary - as a proud Welshwoman I know the dedication with which she’ll serve
Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed it tremendously. On behalf of the 3 of us or so who got to see it...