Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
I think you will find that Sean was joking. And I seriously doubt you have seen anyone else here advocating the same thing - could we have a name?
And how do you "actively see" things?
SeanT's response to me just now kind of implies it wasn't a joke. Although it's a fairly odd joke if it was one. I don't particularly care whether you doubt it or not; but it was around the time that Steve Bannon was announced as WH Chief of Staff in one of the threads. I don't keep names in my head for weeks on end, but you can search threads on PB vanilla to around that time period if you're that interested.
"PBers are convinced that the planet Mars is made of gluten-free fruitcake, there was definitely a thread about it some months ago, I can't be arsed to look it up, you have a go if you care".
Put up or shut up.
You already said this to me last week. You're not going to get what you want from me, generally because I don't really care about proving things to you.
That's just human nature. It's not restricted to any one race. Americans enjoy being citizens of the most powerful country on Earth, just as Roman citizens did.
Mr. Malmesbury, reminds me a bit of an Earth-centric view of the solar system (or man-made global warming). Whoever makes the list or considers the theory always has themselves or their home as the centre of excellence around which lesser bodies revolve.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
Point of clarification - in the PB Fascist hierarchy of races, where do the Japanese sit?
Under Apartheid they were given honorary white status (not for economic reasons you understand, there was sound research based on hair diameter or something). Would we do the same thing to keep Nissan in Sunderland?
Just trying to clarify how this white supremacy idea would work out in practice.
Hitler brought them into the Axis in 1940, if that helps.
Was that admirable as well, or are you just a Mussolini fanboy?
If anyone was doing the same in regard to Communist regimes there would be a totally different reaction on this site.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
I think you will find that Sean was joking. And I seriously doubt you have seen anyone else here advocating the same thing - could we have a name?
And how do you "actively see" things?
SeanT's response to me just now kind of implies it wasn't a joke. Although it's a fairly odd joke if it was one. I don't particularly care whether you doubt it or not; but it was around the time that Steve Bannon was announced as WH Chief of Staff in one of the threads. I don't keep names in my head for weeks on end, but you can search threads on PB vanilla to around that time period if you're that interested.
"PBers are convinced that the planet Mars is made of gluten-free fruitcake, there was definitely a thread about it some months ago, I can't be arsed to look it up, you have a go if you care".
Put up or shut up.
"You already said this to me last week. You're not going to get what you want from me, generally because I don't really care about proving things to you."
Fair enough, but making silly and wannabe provocative points which you cannot substantiate when challenged is not really the raison d'etre of the site. Had you thought about getting a twitter account?
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
If there has to be a global hegemon, and history indicates those are the times of greatest peace and prosperity, yes I would prefer it to be us. The Brits. Who would you prefer? The Mongols?
When has there been a "global hegemon"?
Rome, Britain, America, and, soon, China. So far.
I preferred it when it was Britain. Failing that, Rome was next, then America. China, hmm. No human rights record, but not prone to droning either.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
If there has to be a global hegemon, and history indicates those are the times of greatest peace and prosperity, yes I would prefer it to be us. The Brits. Who would you prefer? The Mongols?
Well yeah, the peace and prosperity was great - for white people. As the granddaughter of Jamaican immigrants on my mother's side, I do not pine for Jamacia to be recolonised. I do not exclusively associate success and prosperity with whiteness. As a mixed kid, it would be odd too.
It's one they haven't got round to repealing where it's illegal in Germany to insult the head of state of a foreign country - a poet was prosecuted under it recently for being rude about Erdogan.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Obviously, but that "border" can be at ports in Northern Ireland, not at the border with the Republic. The border between the UK and Ireland will likely remain just as open as it is today, and lots of people will continue to take legitimate and some illegitimate advantage of that.
I don't expect a great deal of difference to what happens now, which in practice is that relatively low costs goods are smuggled in large quantities.
I know, as pointed out several times before, that there were movement controls between Northern Ireland and rUK during WWII, but I really don’t think a significant section of Northern Irish opinion would go along with it in peacetime.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Ha Ha. Its the way you tell them.
Tobacco sales in the UK rely on the existence of people who don't "know a bloke at the Dog & Duck". The market for smuggled stuff is basically saturated.
Booze is pretty much the same - vans loads arriving at Dover. For personal consumption, of course
Essentially anyone non-middle class (and quite a few middle class people*) are smoking smuggled tobacco. Do you really think the poor are paying £10 a pack for Rothamans?
*Listen to the discussions in any office between the smokers and anyone about to travel to a lower taxed location.
Yes - and once we leave the customs union the van loads of stuff for personal consumption arriving in Dover will no longer be possible. That's kind of the point.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
I think you will find that Sean was joking. And I seriously doubt you have seen anyone else here advocating the same thing - could we have a name?
And how do you "actively see" things?
SeanT's response to me just now kind of implies it wasn't a joke. Although it's a fairly odd joke if it was one. I don't particularly care whether you doubt it or not; but it was around the time that Steve Bannon was announced as WH Chief of Staff in one of the threads. I don't keep names in my head for weeks on end, but you can search threads on PB vanilla to around that time period if you're that interested.
"PBers are convinced that the planet Mars is made of gluten-free fruitcake, there was definitely a thread about it some months ago, I can't be arsed to look it up, you have a go if you care".
Put up or shut up.
You already said this to me last week. You're not going to get what you want from me, generally because I don't really care about proving things to you.
Fair enough, but making silly and wannabe provocative points which you cannot substantiate when challenged is not really the raison d'etre of the site. Had you thought about getting a twitter account?
It's silly to you; it's provocative to you. Unless one has no life, they generally don't spend all their time saving every single observation they see on this site on their favourites to satisfy the qualms of an individual that they'll most likely never met.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Obviously, but that "border" can be at ports in Northern Ireland, not at the border with the Republic. The border between the UK and Ireland will likely remain just as open as it is today, and lots of people will continue to take legitimate and some illegitimate advantage of that.
I don't expect a great deal of difference to what happens now, which in practice is that relatively low costs goods are smuggled in large quantities.
It's being looked at from a UK perspective when it's worth looking at it from the Irish one.
They can have an open border with the prospect of global tariff free goods on their doorstep in Northern Ireland, or they can stay inside the EU fence and suddenly find themselves slapping new EU tariffs on a third of their global imports (origin: the UK) if other EU nations play silly buggers on free trade.
The UK does not have to reciprocate in kind, if it chooses not to because the UK will be free to make it's own decisions on individual commodities. Ireland isn't.
If the UK reaches some form of free trade accord with other parts of the anglosphere - as seems increasingly probable - Ireland really is in a pickle, saddled with a bunch of Europeans who aren't that major as trade partners and who are lining up Macedonia, Albania, Serbia etc as their alternative.
On empires generally, it's always struck me that almost all tribes and kingdoms oppressed or took advantage of others if they grew large enough to try. Even the most peaceful and stable nations of today were probably in the midst of time formed from multiple peoples, and chances are not always by choice. Empires existed from Japan to South America, and where they didn't try to take over other places they dominated them as best they could in other ways, it's human nature. European empires in the last 500 years just coincided with technology to make such empires global, but ancient empires of any skin tone woukd have done the same, if in an alternate history smaller nations today were stronger then their oppressors in reality, they'd have done the same damn things. Only in the details, the level of oppression, would they be different. Some were clearly worse than others, but by their nature someone would win and someone lose.
It's why I don't lose sleep beating myself up about the British empire. Even those who wish we were that powerful again would not have the cold, heartlessness needed to oppress people that any empire,even the most benevolent, requires. So it's not coming back. But alongside that goes the point that it was not unique, empire was what people did if they were strong enough, and while you cannot make up for the sins of the past, so long as we are not perpetuating those sins I'm not overly concerned at unrealistic and simplistic nostalgia.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - mainland.
Why? them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
I seem to remember that being said.
If companies can freely import to the UK through Ireland without tariffs, then it would make a mockery of any British attempt to impose them in the absence of a Brexit agreement on trade with the EU. It would also be absolutely brilliant for the whole island of Ireland. Probably less brilliant for the island of Great Britain, though.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
Point of clarification - in the PB Fascist hierarchy of races, where do the Japanese sit?
Under Apartheid they were given honorary white status (not for economic reasons you understand, there was sound research based on hair diameter or something). Would we do the same thing to keep Nissan in Sunderland?
Just trying to clarify how this white supremacy idea would work out in practice.
Hitler brought them into the Axis in 1940, if that helps.
Was that admirable as well, or are you just a Mussolini fanboy?
Sorry, what is your point? Was enacting a law whose intention and effect was to save the lives of a lot of Jews, at risk of irritating an overwhelmingly more powerful ally, admirable or not? What have I ever said that suggests that I find anything else which Mussolini said or did to be admirable? And what bearing does Hitler's attitude to Japan in 1940 have on Mussolini, given the very junior position in Axis of Italy?
That's three non-rhetorical questions. Answers please.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Ha Ha. Its the way you tell them.
Tobacco sales in the UK rely on the existence of people who don't "know a bloke at the Dog & Duck". The market for smuggled stuff is basically saturated.
Booze is pretty much the same - vans loads arriving at Dover. For personal consumption, of course
Essentially anyone non-middle class (and quite a few middle class people*) are smoking smuggled tobacco. Do you really think the poor are paying £10 a pack for Rothamans?
*Listen to the discussions in any office between the smokers and anyone about to travel to a lower taxed location.
Yes - and once we leave the customs union the van loads of stuff for personal consumption arriving in Dover will no longer be possible. That's kind of the point.
The van loads will be driving across the Irish-NI border. An additional ferry trip.
You seem to be assuming that there will be a change to import allowances at Dover, as well.
On empires generally, it's always struck me that almost all tribes and kingdoms oppressed or took advantage of others if they grew large enough to try. Even the most peaceful and stable nations of today were probably in the midst of time formed from multiple peoples, and chances are not always by choice. Empires existed from Japan to South America, and where they didn't try to take over other places they dominated them as best they could in other ways, it's human nature. European empires in the last 500 years just coincided with technology to make such empires global, but ancient empires of any skin tone woukd have done the same, if in an alternate history smaller nations today were stronger then their oppressors in reality, they'd have done the same damn things. Only in the details, the level of oppression, would they be different. Some were clearly worse than others, but by their nature someone would win and someone lose.
It's why I don't lose sleep beating myself up about the British empire. Even those who wish we were that powerful again would not have the cold, heartlessness needed to oppress people that any empire,even the most benevolent, requires. So it's not coming back. But alongside that goes the point that it was not unique, empire was what people did if they were strong enough, and while you cannot make up for the sins of the past, so long as we are not perpetuating those sins I'm not overly concerned at unrealistic and simplistic nostalgia.
Good day all.
relatedly, unrealistic nostalgia that would not emerge in practice is mirrored with unrealistic pessimism that would not manifest. That linked poll about regretting independence for example. I think we can be confident that even if it was a true refelection of sentiment, in reality Jamaica would reject giving up independence if offered, and more likely people felt like crap and, briefly, nostalgically considered things had been better in the past, in some ways. But inreality would not give up independence to try to recreate that position.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No, I am listening to people who tell me that leaving the EU means leaving the customs union and the single market.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Ha Ha. Its the way you tell them.
Tobacco sales in the UK rely on the existence of people who don't "know a bloke at the Dog & Duck". The market for smuggled stuff is basically saturated.
Booze is pretty much the same - vans loads arriving at Dover. For personal consumption, of course
Essentially anyone non-middle class (and quite a few middle class people*) are smoking smuggled tobacco. Do you really think the poor are paying £10 a pack for Rothamans?
*Listen to the discussions in any office between the smokers and anyone about to travel to a lower taxed location.
Yes - and once we leave the customs union the van loads of stuff for personal consumption arriving in Dover will no longer be possible. That's kind of the point.
The van loads will be driving across the Irish border. An additional ferry trip.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - mainland.
Why? them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
I seem to remember that being said.
If companies can freely import to the UK through Ireland without tariffs, then it would make a mockery of any British attempt to impose them in the absence of a Brexit agreement on trade with the EU. It would also be absolutely brilliant for the whole island of Ireland. Probably less brilliant for the island of Great Britain, though.
Bottle of Prosecco
Tesco Lisburn NI £7.00
Tesco Waterford RoI € 15.00
which way do you think trade will flow ?
For Prosecco, from North to South. For other stuff, we shall have to see. In the absence of a hard border, Ireland can be used to import all manner of goods into the UK, not just fizzy wine.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Ha Ha. Its the way you tell them.
Tobacco sales in the UK rely on the existence of people who don't "know a bloke at the Dog & Duck". The market for smuggled stuff is basically saturated.
Booze is pretty much the same - vans loads arriving at Dover. For personal consumption, of course
Essentially anyone non-middle class (and quite a few middle class people*) are smoking smuggled tobacco. Do you really think the poor are paying £10 a pack for Rothamans?
*Listen to the discussions in any office between the smokers and anyone about to travel to a lower taxed location.
Yes - and once we leave the customs union the van loads of stuff for personal consumption arriving in Dover will no longer be possible. That's kind of the point.
The van loads will be driving across the Irish border. An additional ferry trip.
Yes - precisely my point.
Not quite sure what you are arguing for here. I am pointing out that there is no interest in a hard border from the UK or Ireland. Only the EU would want one, as part of a hypothetical tariff barrier on UK goods. Good luck with enforcing that.
NSFW - a PewDiePie fan isn't happy, he's bang on though IMO. Incidentally, Mr Pie now has a whopping 9.7m followers from nowhere on Twitter. A tiger's tail has been pulled.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No, I am listening to people who tell me that leaving the EU means leaving the customs union and the single market.
And I think you're right. We're leaving both, in some form.
It's gonna be hard for 5 years minimum. In the end we will be seriously richer, and happier, and we will hopefully avoid the neo-Fascism which is now clearly closing in on continental Europe.
But for some reason Remainers think we are compelled to impose high tariffs on imports to the U.K. when we do leave - when of course we don't.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Ha Ha. Its the way you tell them.
Tobacco sales in the UK rely on the existence of people who don't "know a bloke at the Dog & Duck". The market for smuggled stuff is basically saturated.
Booze is pretty much the same - vans loads arriving at Dover. For personal consumption, of course
Essentially anyone non-middle class (and quite a few middle class people*) are smoking smuggled tobacco. Do you really think the poor are paying £10 a pack for Rothamans?
*Listen to the discussions in any office between the smokers and anyone about to travel to a lower taxed location.
Yes - and once we leave the customs union the van loads of stuff for personal consumption arriving in Dover will no longer be possible. That's kind of the point.
The van loads will be driving across the Irish border. An additional ferry trip.
Yes - precisely my point.
Not quite sure what you are arguing for here. I am pointing out that there is no interest in a hard border from the UK or Ireland. Only the EU would want one, as part of a hypothetical tariff barrier on UK goods. Good luck with enforcing that.
We cannot leave the customs union in the absence of hard borders with the customs union. Leaving it will have to be policed.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No, I am listening to people who tell me that leaving the EU means leaving the customs union and the single market.
And I think you're right. We're leaving both, in some form.
It's gonna be hard for 5 years minimum. In the end we will be seriously richer, and happier, and we will hopefully avoid the neo-Fascism which is now clearly closing in on continental Europe.
Agree with the first sentence of the last paragraph.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain e market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - mainland.
Why? them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the u look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
I seem to remember that being said.
If companies can freely import to the UK tin, though.
Bottle of Prosecco
Tesco Lisburn NI £7.00
Tesco Waterford RoI € 15.00
which way do you think trade will flow ?
For Prosecco, from North to South. For other stuff, we shall have to see. In the absence of a hard border, Ireland can be used to import all manner of goods into the UK, not just fizzy wine.
Ireland is taxed to the hilt to repay German banks.
The cost of a return trip on a ferry across the Irish sea hits profit margins on transporting goods. Im going to Waterford on Wednesday by car nd ferry . Return trip will cost me about £400.
As an aside Id say the biggest threat to Irelands tax base comes from Trump. If he cuts US corporation tax rates and pressurises US multinats to pay taxes at home that could create a big hole in irelands income.
NSFW - a PewDiePie fan isn't happy, he's bang on though IMO. Incidentally, Mr Pie now has a whopping 9.7m followers from nowhere on Twitter. A tiger's tail has been pulled.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
We cannot leave the customs union in the absence of hard borders with the customs union. Leaving it will have to be policed.
The customs union is the EU's problem not ours. If they need to impose hard borders to protect it then that is their affair. There is absolutely no need for us to impose additional checks - indeed if we had any sense we would be reducing barriers with the rest of the world as well. There is certainly no cause for us to impose internal borders within our state as you are suggesting. This is a problem entirely for the EU. If Britain and Ireland do not want such borders then it is for the EU to decide whether to force Ireland to impose them. Then it is Ireland's choice whether or not to obey.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain e market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - mainland.
Why? them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the u look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
I seem to remember that being said.
If companies can freely import to the UK tin, though.
Bottle of Prosecco
Tesco Lisburn NI £7.00
Tesco Waterford RoI € 15.00
which way do you think trade will flow ?
For Prosecco, from North to South. For other stuff, we shall have to see. In the absence of a hard border, Ireland can be used to import all manner of goods into the UK, not just fizzy wine.
Ireland is taxed to the hilt to repay German banks.
The cost of a return trip on a ferry across the Irish sea hits profit margins on transporting goods. Im going to Waterford on Wednesday by car nd ferry . Return trip will cost me about £400.
As an aside Id say the biggest threat to Irelands tax base comes from Trump. If he cuts US corporation tax rates and pressurises US multinats to pay taxes at home that could create a big hole in irelands income.
It all depends on what is being imported and in what quantities. If we do not have a hard border, then all manner of things may become attractive to import via Ireland if there is a hard border between the EU and the UK elsewhere.
NSFW - a PewDiePie fan isn't happy, he's bang on though IMO. Incidentally, Mr Pie now has a whopping 9.7m followers from nowhere on Twitter. A tiger's tail has been pulled.
If you watched it - you'll have noticed the central message of commercial bullying, by commercial rivals.
The Times were at it last week under the guise of funding terrorism. Dozens of businesses have been intimidated from buying space on conservative sites.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
Ha Ha. Its the way you tell them.
Tobacco sales in the UK rely on the existence of people who don't "know a bloke at the Dog & Duck". The market for smuggled stuff is basically saturated.
Booze is pretty much the same - vans loads arriving at Dover. For personal consumption, of course
Essentially anyone non-middle class (and quite a few middle class people*) are smoking smuggled tobacco. Do you really think the poor are paying £10 a pack for Rothamans?
*Listen to the discussions in any office between the smokers and anyone about to travel to a lower taxed location.
Yes - and once we leave the customs union the van loads of stuff for personal consumption arriving in Dover will no longer be possible. That's kind of the point.
The van loads will be driving across the Irish border. An additional ferry trip.
Yes - precisely my point.
Not quite sure what you are arguing for here. I am pointing out that there is no interest in a hard border from the UK or Ireland. Only the EU would want one, as part of a hypothetical tariff barrier on UK goods. Good luck with enforcing that.
We cannot leave the customs union in the absence of hard borders with the customs union. Leaving it will have to be policed.
By the Customs Union - not, necessarily, by us. Unless we choose to impose high tariffs that make it worth people's while to work their way round. we already police the 'hard customs border' the EU requires. Leaving the EU changes that.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
Only in your expert opinion. Remind how well Ireland did linked to UK before it joined EU and comparison now. Blind man could work that one out better than you did.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
The terms Britain and British have existed for much longer than the political entity.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No, I am listening to people who tell me that leaving the EU means leaving the customs union and the single market.
And why does that imply additional duties or tariffs imposed by the UK government? It may well imply lower duties and tariffs from our side.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No, I am listening to people who tell me that leaving the EU means leaving the customs union and the single market.
And I think you're right. We're leaving both, in some form.
It's gonna be hard for 5 years minimum. In the end we will be seriously richer, and happier, and we will hopefully avoid the neo-Fascism which is now clearly closing in on continental Europe.
But for some reason Remainers think we are compelled to impose high tariffs on imports to the U.K. when we do leave - when of course we don't.
Of course we are not compelled. I just listen to what people say, though. For example, why would the German car industry be worried about the UK leaving the single market and the customs union if there were not going to be tariffs?
On empires generally, it's always struck me that almost all tribes and kingdoms oppressed or took advantage of others if they grew large enough to try. Even the most peaceful and stable nations of today were probably in the midst of time formed from multiple peoples, and chances are not always by choice. Empires existed from Japan to South America, and where they didn't try to take over other places they dominated them as best they could in other ways, it's human nature. European empires in the last 500 years just coincided with technology to make such empires global, but ancient empires of any skin tone woukd have done the same, if in an alternate history smaller nations today were stronger then their oppressors in reality, they'd have done the same damn things. Only in the details, the level of oppression, would they be different. Some were clearly worse than others, but by their nature someone would win and someone lose.
It's why I don't lose sleep beating myself up about the British empire. Even those who wish we were that powerful again would not have the cold, heartlessness needed to oppress people that any empire,even the most benevolent, requires. So it's not coming back. But alongside that goes the point that it was not unique, empire was what people did if they were strong enough, and while you cannot make up for the sins of the past, so long as we are not perpetuating those sins I'm not overly concerned at unrealistic and simplistic nostalgia.
Good day all.
In some respects the British Empire was as brutal and unprincipled as all empires (look up, for example, the number of deaths from famine in India as a result of deliberate policy). Clearly we also did some good things, too. Alongside the messy balance sheet stand two fairly unalloyed goods - our abolition of the slave trade (enforced energetically by the Royal Navy), and our policing of the world oceans for free, and not just British, trade.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No, I am listening to people who tell me that leaving the EU means leaving the customs union and the single market.
And why does that imply additional duties or tariffs imposed by the UK government? It may well imply lower duties and tariffs from our side.
It may do - but then what is this argument about them needing us more than we need them? If we are not going to impose tariffs that does not come into play, does it?
I wonder which Irish groupings are best placed to capitalise on a new black market.
PIRA - Prosecco Irish Rapscallion Association.
Have a like for that.
I wonder if Mr Meeks understands the deal the peace process was based on.
1) The presentable murderers get hold multiple political offices at the same time. Expenses overlooked. Overnight turning them into mid 6 figure earners. In NI, where money probably goes 5 times further than London. 2) The less presentable ones can get one with low level criminality unhindered. 3) The really unpresentable ones get to be "dissidents".
Group (1) is informally responsible for keeps groups 2 and 3 in check.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
Only in your expert opinion. Remind how well Ireland did linked to UK before it joined EU and comparison now. Blind man could work that one out better than you did.
Perhaps you can remind me who needed an enormous bailout from other nations because of a sovereign debt failure, whose real estate is still 30% below what it was in 2008 etc?
For Prosecco, from North to South. For other stuff, we shall have to see. In the absence of a hard border, Ireland can be used to import all manner of goods into the UK, not just fizzy wine.
The funny bit being that you cannot see that the movement of goods is all about costs. Tariffs are just an additional cost. I wonder what the additional cost of bringing goods all the way from mainland Europe to Ireland and then back again to the UK would be compared with the 22 mile journey across the channel. One suspects the savings made on any purported tariffs would quickly disappear.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
For Prosecco, from North to South. For other stuff, we shall have to see. In the absence of a hard border, Ireland can be used to import all manner of goods into the UK, not just fizzy wine.
The funny bit being that you cannot see that the movement of goods is all about costs. Tariffs are just an additional cost. I wonder what the additional cost of bringing goods all the way from mainland Europe to Ireland and then back again to the UK would be compared with the 22 mile journey across the channel. One suspects the savings made on any purported tariffs would quickly disappear.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain e market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Rep and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - mainland.
Why? them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the u look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
I seem to remember that being said.
If companies can freely import to the UK tin, though.
Bottle of Prosecco
will flow ?
For Prosecco, from Nore UK, not just fizzy wine.
Ireland income.
It all depends on what is being imported and in what quantities. If we do not have a hard border, then all manner of things may become attractive to import via Ireland if there is a hard border between the EU and the UK elsewhere.
Youre drifting off into the land of the hypotheical
Currently withn the EU there are lots of points of tax leakage for all countries not just the UK. Oh so communautaire Luxemburg is probably one of the biggest offenders on VAT, Ireland on corporation Tax.
For the average consumer the amount of tariff free goods will be at the margins. In Waterford I can buy some seriously cheap high quality meat, but my freezer has only so much space so Ill probably not bother.
On large items such as cars, if new, the franchise dealer system impedes you and right hand drive means its only ever UK and Ireland who can swap cars.
As for other bigger items well thats why we have Customs and they have a role to track down the serious criminals and do
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No, I am listening to people who tell me that leaving the EU means leaving the customs union and the single market.
And why does that imply additional duties or tariffs imposed by the UK government? It may well imply lower duties and tariffs from our side.
It may do - but then what is this argument about them needing us more than we need them? If we are not going to impose tariffs that does not come into play, does it?
Not at all. That argument has been and gone as far as tariffs are concerned. It became redundant when we decided to leave. The levels of tariffs that might be imposed on our exports to the EU have already been far outweighed by the reduction in the value of the pound. We already won that argument.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
The solution is clear - Ireland should leave the EU and form a British-Irish customs union (to complement the existing free travel area).
Give it 10 years, once the EU forces its members to surrender their neutrality in foreign affairs/defence, harmonises corporation tax, 'harmonises' abortion law...
NSFW - a PewDiePie fan isn't happy, he's bang on though IMO. Incidentally, Mr Pie now has a whopping 9.7m followers from nowhere on Twitter. A tiger's tail has been pulled.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
The solution is clear - Ireland should leave the EU and form a British-Irish customs union (to complement the existing free travel area).
Give it 10 years, once the EU forces its members to surrender their neutrality in foreign affairs/defence, harmonises corporation tax, 'harmonises' abortion law...
They are not stupid though
It is interesting to consider the red lines for various countries regarding the EU, though.
I expected a narrow Remain victory in the referendum. Followed by a second referendum and a massive out vote within a few years. The plans for a single EU health service would ensure that.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No, I am listening to people who tell me that leaving the EU means leaving the customs union and the single market.
And why does that imply additional duties or tariffs imposed by the UK government? It may well imply lower duties and tariffs from our side.
It may do - but then what is this argument about them needing us more than we need them? If we are not going to impose tariffs that does not come into play, does it?
Not at all. That argument has been and gone as far as tariffs are concerned. It became redundant when we decided to leave. The levels of tariffs that might be imposed on our exports to the EU have already been far outweighed by the reduction in the value of the pound. We already won that argument.
Eh? Aren't the Germans supposed to be worried about us imposing tariffs on them?
Mildly surprised there's not more mention of the potential customs union fudge.
We leave 'the' customs union and have 'a' customs union with the EU. We still negotiate our own deals with non-EU countries but are in a customs union with the EU so that goods etc can flow more easily.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - mainland.
Why? them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
I seem to remember that being said.
If companies can freely import to the UK through Ireland without tariffs, then it would make a mockery of any British attempt to impose them in the absence of a Brexit agreement on trade with the EU. It would also be absolutely brilliant for the whole island of Ireland. Probably less brilliant for the island of Great Britain, though.
Bottle of Prosecco
Tesco Lisburn NI £7.00
Tesco Waterford RoI € 15.00
which way do you think trade will flow ?
They are Irish Alan , they will all be heading for Waterford
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
The terms Britain and British have existed for much longer than the political entity.
You'll find very little reference to "British" as an subjugating force before James VI subjugated the English throne in 1603 or indeed from 1317 as you inferred.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
And the plantations of the 16th and 17th century when settlers from the island of Britain were forcibly imposed on the Irish.
more myth
ALL the english plantations failed, even the Ulster one.
The NE of Ireland became british or rather scottish through a combination of religious freedom and a wave of immigration from western scotland which displaced the Irish. The scottish were more efficient farmers and thus able to pay higher rents.
at one point in the mid C18 10% of all people born in Scotland lived in Ulster. Post 1776 the US became the preferred destintion for Scots.
As for the wonderfully free range Irish, our reputation in the formation of the USA wouldnt exactly stand much scrutiny if you were an indigenous american.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain e market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Rep and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - mainland.
Why? them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the u look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
I seem to remember that being said.
If companies can freely import to the UK tin, though.
Bottle of Prosecco
will flow ?
For Prosecco, from Nore UK, not just fizzy wine.
Ireland income.
It elsewhere.
Youre drifting off into the land of the hypotheical
Currently withn the EU there are lots of points of tax leakage for all countries not just the UK. Oh so communautaire Luxemburg is probably one of the biggest offenders on VAT, Ireland on corporation Tax.
For the average consumer the amount of tariff free goods will be at the margins. In Waterford I can buy some seriously cheap high quality meat, but my freezer has only so much space so Ill probably not bother.
On large items such as cars, if new, the franchise dealer system impedes you and right hand drive means its only ever UK and Ireland who can swap cars.
As for other bigger items well thats why we have Customs and they have a role to track down the serious criminals and do
Yep, you'd clearly need to police RHD cars coming to the mainland from NI. Probably best to do it at the point of entry.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
There is far more "Trumpism" spouted on here than by the "Big Dog" himself. Given the ignorance of reality of the UK mainland it is no surprise it is even worse North of Watford.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
The terms Britain and British have existed for much longer than the political entity.
You'll find very little reference to "British" as an subjugating force before James VI subjugated the English throne in 1603 or indeed from 1317 as you inferred.
But that does not mean that the Irish were not subjugated by people from Britain.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
There is far more "Trumpism" spouted on here than by the "Big Dog" himself. Given the ignorance of reality of the UK mainland it is no surprise it is even worse North of Watford.
What is "ignorance of reality of the UK mainland" ?
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
And the plantations of the 16th and 17th century when settlers from the island of Britain were forcibly imposed on the Irish.
more myth
ALL the english plantations failed, even the Ulster one.
The NE of Ireland became british or rather scottish through a combination of religious freedom and a wave of immigration from western scotland which displaced the Irish. The scottish were more efficient farmers and thus able to pay higher rents.
at one point in the mid C18 10% of all people born in Scotland lived in Ulster. Post 1776 the US became the preferred destintion for Scots.
As for the wonderfully free range Irish, our reputation in the formation of the USA wouldnt exactly stand much scrutiny if you were an indigenous american.
Whether they failed or not is pretty immaterial. They still happened. And last time I looked Scotland was in Britain. Totally agree about the Irish in North America.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
The terms Britain and British have existed for much longer than the political entity.
You'll find very little reference to "British" as an subjugating force before James VI subjugated the English throne in 1603 or indeed from 1317 as you inferred.
But that does not mean that the Irish were not subjugated by people from Britain.
It rather assumes there's such a thing as the Irish, theyre as mongrel a nation as the british.
gaelic homogenous Ireland is largely a creation of late 19th Century nationalists.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
The terms Britain and British have existed for much longer than the political entity.
You'll find very little reference to "British" as an subjugating force before James VI subjugated the English throne in 1603 or indeed from 1317 as you inferred.
But that does not mean that the Irish were not subjugated by people from Britain.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
There is far more "Trumpism" spouted on here than by the "Big Dog" himself. Given the ignorance of reality of the UK mainland it is no surprise it is even worse North of Watford.
What is "ignorance of reality of the UK mainland" ?
It is thick twats who know little beyond what they can see within eyesight, spouting bollox about distant parts of the UK that most of them would struggle to point out on a map never mind have visited or know anything about.
NSFW - a PewDiePie fan isn't happy, he's bang on though IMO. Incidentally, Mr Pie now has a whopping 9.7m followers from nowhere on Twitter. A tiger's tail has been pulled.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
The terms Britain and British have existed for much longer than the political entity.
You'll find very little reference to "British" as an subjugating force before James VI subjugated the English throne in 1603 or indeed from 1317 as you inferred.
But that does not mean that the Irish were not subjugated by people from Britain.
Stop digging. Your original statement was a simple error of fact. Accept it and move on.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
And the plantations of the 16th and 17th century when settlers from the island of Britain were forcibly imposed on the Irish.
more myth
ALL the english plantations failed, even the Ulster one.
The NE of Ireland became british oamerican.
Whether they failed or not is pretty immaterial. They still happened. And last time I looked Scotland was in Britain. Totally agree about the Irish in North America.
in C10 settlers from Scandinavia were forcibly imposed on Ireland - and founded most of its major towns and cities - driving the Irish away, killing them and stealing their women.
should I hold a major grudge against Danes and consider them a bunch of bastards?
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
The terms Britain and British have existed for much longer than the political entity.
You'll find very little reference to "British" as an subjugating force before James VI subjugated the English throne in 1603 or indeed from 1317 as you inferred.
But that does not mean that the Irish were not subjugated by people from Britain.
Stop digging. Your original statement was a simple error of fact. Accept it and move on.
There is far more "Trumpism" spouted on here than by the "Big Dog" himself. Given the ignorance of reality of the UK mainland it is no surprise it is even worse North of Watford.
Ah, but which Watford - Hertfordshire or Northamptonshire ? ..
As Scotland faces the prospect of a second independence referendum, one of Britain’s foremost economic forecasters has claimed the country would suffer recession and Greek-style austerity cuts of about £19bn in the event of a “Scexit”. A new analysis by the Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) predicts that the gap between what Scotland raises in taxes and spends on public services will rise to an “unsustainable” 9.4% of GDP in 2017-18.
This is more than three times that of the UK as a whole (3%), and reflects a collapse in North Sea oil revenues, down from $110 a barrel in 2014 to $56 on Friday. If Scotland were independent today Douglas McWilliams, the consultancy’s president, claims the deficit would be even higher — at 12% of GDP — as a result of additional costs of becoming a separate state.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
The terms Britain and British have existed for much longer than the political entity.
You'll find very little reference to "British" as an subjugating force before James VI subjugated the English throne in 1603 or indeed from 1317 as you inferred.
But that does not mean that the Irish were not subjugated by people from Britain.
Stop digging. Your original statement was a simple error of fact. Accept it and move on.
North London pub history. Drunken nonsense that embedded itself in SO's teenage brain.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
The terms Britain and British have existed for much longer than the political entity.
You'll find very little reference to "British" as an subjugating force before James VI subjugated the English throne in 1603 or indeed from 1317 as you inferred.
But that does not mean that the Irish were not subjugated by people from Britain.
Stop digging. Your original statement was a simple error of fact. Accept it and move on.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No, I am listening to people who tell me that leaving the EU means leaving the customs union and the single market.
And why does that imply additional duties or tariffs imposed by the UK government? It may well imply lower duties and tariffs from our side.
It may do - but then what is this argument about them needing us more than we need them? If we are not going to impose tariffs that does not come into play, does it?
Not at all. That argument has been and gone as far as tariffs are concerned. It became redundant when we decided to leave. The levels of tariffs that might be imposed on our exports to the EU have already been far outweighed by the reduction in the value of the pound. We already won that argument.
Eh? Aren't the Germans supposed to be worried about us imposing tariffs on them?
No idea. It is not an argument I have used since I think tariffs are completely counter productive. You may have noticed it is something OGH Junior and I get quite exercised about along with freedom of movement.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
And the plantations of the 16th and 17th century when settlers from the island of Britain were forcibly imposed on the Irish.
more myth
ALL the english plantations failed, even the Ulster one.
The NE of Ireland became british oamerican.
Whether they failed or not is pretty immaterial. They still happened. And last time I looked Scotland was in Britain. Totally agree about the Irish in North America.
in C10 settlers from Scandinavia were forcibly imposed on Ireland - and founded most of its major towns and cities - driving the Irish away, killing them and stealing their women.
should I hold a major grudge against Danes and consider them a bunch of bastards?
I thought that the Scandinavian settlers in Ireland could in many ways be equated with those in and around York at or about the same time.
What can reasonably be said is that the relationship between the British crown and Ireland was generally one of attempted subjugation of the latter by the former from about 1200 AD/CE onward.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
There is far more "Trumpism" spouted on here than by the "Big Dog" himself. Given the ignorance of reality of the UK mainland it is no surprise it is even worse North of Watford.
What is "ignorance of reality of the UK mainland" ?
It is thick twats who know little beyond what they can see within eyesight, spouting bollox about distant parts of the UK that most of them would struggle to point out on a map never mind have visited or know anything about.
Oh you really shouldn't put yourself down like that Malcolm. I mean I understand it might bother you that you are a bit thick but I have never considered you a twat.
As Scotland faces the prospect of a second independence referendum, one of Britain’s foremost economic forecasters has claimed the country would suffer recession and Greek-style austerity cuts of about £19bn in the event of a “Scexit”. A new analysis by the Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) predicts that the gap between what Scotland raises in taxes and spends on public services will rise to an “unsustainable” 9.4% of GDP in 2017-18.
This is more than three times that of the UK as a whole (3%), and reflects a collapse in North Sea oil revenues, down from $110 a barrel in 2014 to $56 on Friday. If Scotland were independent today Douglas McWilliams, the consultancy’s president, claims the deficit would be even higher — at 12% of GDP — as a result of additional costs of becoming a separate state.
LOL some partisan right wing Tory fannies spout utter guff, ok we better cancel that referendum then. Oil collapsed years ago and yet nothing happened to our GDP.
NSFW - a PewDiePie fan isn't happy, he's bang on though IMO. Incidentally, Mr Pie now has a whopping 9.7m followers from nowhere on Twitter. A tiger's tail has been pulled.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
As Great Britain did not exist until 1707 you first sentence might best be described as a phrase now banned on PB .... aka a "Trumpism".
And the plantations of the 16th and 17th century when settlers from the island of Britain were forcibly imposed on the Irish.
more myth
ALL the english plantations failed, even the Ulster one.
The NE of Ireland became british oamerican.
Whether they failed or not is pretty immaterial. They still happened. And last time I looked Scotland was in Britain. Totally agree about the Irish in North America.
in C10 settlers from Scandinavia were forcibly imposed on Ireland - and founded most of its major towns and cities - driving the Irish away, killing them and stealing their women.
should I hold a major grudge against Danes and consider them a bunch of bastards?
I thought that the Scandinavian settlers in Ireland could in many ways be equated with those in and around York at or about the same time.
What can reasonably be said is that the relationship between the British crown and Ireland was generally one of attempted subjugation of the latter by the former from about 1200 AD/CE onward.
But given that England itself had been conquered by the same bunch of continental tosspots it is rather like trying to blame the Poles for the German invasion of France in 1940.
Comments
That's just human nature. It's not restricted to any one race. Americans enjoy being citizens of the most powerful country on Earth, just as Roman citizens did.
Fair enough, but making silly and wannabe provocative points which you cannot substantiate when challenged is not really the raison d'etre of the site. Had you thought about getting a twitter account?
edit because quoting fecked.
Monica with a finger on the pulse of Jah.
It's silly to you; it's provocative to you. Unless one has no life, they generally don't spend all their time saving every single observation they see on this site on their favourites to satisfy the qualms of an individual that they'll most likely never met.
They can have an open border with the prospect of global tariff free goods on their doorstep in Northern Ireland, or they can stay inside the EU fence and suddenly find themselves slapping new EU tariffs on a third of their global imports (origin: the UK) if other EU nations play silly buggers on free trade.
The UK does not have to reciprocate in kind, if it chooses not to because the UK will be free to make it's own decisions on individual commodities. Ireland isn't.
If the UK reaches some form of free trade accord with other parts of the anglosphere - as seems increasingly probable - Ireland really is in a pickle, saddled with a bunch of Europeans who aren't that major as trade partners and who are lining up Macedonia, Albania, Serbia etc as their alternative.
It's why I don't lose sleep beating myself up about the British empire. Even those who wish we were that powerful again would not have the cold, heartlessness needed to oppress people that any empire,even the most benevolent, requires. So it's not coming back. But alongside that goes the point that it was not unique, empire was what people did if they were strong enough, and while you cannot make up for the sins of the past, so long as we are not perpetuating those sins I'm not overly concerned at unrealistic and simplistic nostalgia.
Good day all.
Bottle of Prosecco
Tesco Lisburn NI £7.00
Tesco Waterford RoI € 15.00
which way do you think trade will flow ?
That's three non-rhetorical questions. Answers please.
You seem to be assuming that there will be a change to import allowances at Dover, as well.
https://youtu.be/JLrS3UopPF8
https://twitter.com/stevekopack/status/833109003160924160
https://twitter.com/arron_banks/status/833091411130056705
The cost of a return trip on a ferry across the Irish sea hits profit margins on transporting goods. Im going to Waterford on Wednesday by car nd ferry . Return trip will cost me about £400.
As an aside Id say the biggest threat to Irelands tax base comes from Trump. If he cuts US corporation tax rates and pressurises US multinats to pay taxes at home that could create a big hole in irelands income.
https://twitter.com/andrewhibbard/status/833104486180622336
https://twitter.com/glinner/status/833134031705407488
The Times were at it last week under the guise of funding terrorism. Dozens of businesses have been intimidated from buying space on conservative sites.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_invasion_of_Ireland
Alongside the messy balance sheet stand two fairly unalloyed goods - our abolition of the slave trade (enforced energetically by the Royal Navy), and our policing of the world oceans for free, and not just British, trade.
Wikileaks
Chinese ambassador "private, off the record" set up for meeting with Clinton campaign during run up to US election https://t.co/fLDCvJkrjT https://t.co/2LJtFmbcoY
I wonder if Mr Meeks understands the deal the peace process was based on.
1) The presentable murderers get hold multiple political offices at the same time. Expenses overlooked. Overnight turning them into mid 6 figure earners. In NI, where money probably goes 5 times further than London.
2) The less presentable ones can get one with low level criminality unhindered.
3) The really unpresentable ones get to be "dissidents".
Group (1) is informally responsible for keeps groups 2 and 3 in check.
Lib Dem gain from CON
Emmbrook (Wokingham) result:
LDEM: 59.7% (+22.3)
CON: 33.3% (-4.5)
UKIP: 3.9% (-11.7)
LAB: 3.0% (-6.1)
Currently withn the EU there are lots of points of tax leakage for all countries not just the UK. Oh so communautaire Luxemburg is probably one of the biggest offenders on VAT, Ireland on corporation Tax.
For the average consumer the amount of tariff free goods will be at the margins. In Waterford I can buy some seriously cheap high quality meat, but my freezer has only so much space so Ill probably not bother.
On large items such as cars, if new, the franchise dealer system impedes you and right hand drive means its only ever UK and Ireland who can swap cars.
As for other bigger items well thats why we have Customs and they have a role to track down the serious criminals and do
Really? Methinks you are exaggerating given his 'fame' before this year.
If he wants to moan about a modern successor state he should be moaning about the French not the English.
I expected a narrow Remain victory in the referendum. Followed by a second referendum and a massive out vote within a few years. The plans for a single EU health service would ensure that.
We leave 'the' customs union and have 'a' customs union with the EU. We still negotiate our own deals with non-EU countries but are in a customs union with the EU so that goods etc can flow more easily.
ALL the english plantations failed, even the Ulster one.
The NE of Ireland became british or rather scottish through a combination of religious freedom and a wave of immigration from western scotland which displaced the Irish. The scottish were more efficient farmers and thus able to pay higher rents.
at one point in the mid C18 10% of all people born in Scotland lived in Ulster. Post 1776 the US became the preferred destintion for Scots.
As for the wonderfully free range Irish, our reputation in the formation of the USA wouldnt exactly stand much scrutiny if you were an indigenous american.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/u-s-and-uk-trade-policy-proposals-have-germany-scrambling-a-1134668.html
After all, the United Kingdom is the EU's biggest global export market. The only one that comes close is the United States.
The thought of the UK and US working in tandem is troublesome for them. It's roughly a €700bn a year export market.
gaelic homogenous Ireland is largely a creation of late 19th Century nationalists.
https://www.wired.com/2017/02/pewdiepie-racism-alt-right/
should I hold a major grudge against Danes and consider them a bunch of bastards?
So move on. Nothing to see here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY41eD4lS28
This is more than three times that of the UK as a whole (3%), and reflects a collapse in North Sea oil revenues, down from $110 a barrel in 2014 to $56 on Friday. If Scotland were independent today Douglas McWilliams, the consultancy’s president, claims the deficit would be even higher — at 12% of GDP — as a result of additional costs of becoming a separate state.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/independent-scotland-the-new-greece-rhj0jl3mg
What can reasonably be said is that the relationship between the British crown and Ireland was generally one of attempted subjugation of the latter by the former from about 1200 AD/CE onward.
I shall never read his account of the bitter fighting in the Dzershinzky Tractor Factory in quite the same way again.