Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
That may be true. But they also face the prospect of a second banking collapse even now if they squabble with the EU. They will not I think take that path (and I don't blame them) but it does leave them between a rock and a red-hot lump of iron.
They can play a variant of the game the French do so well - "The regulations will be enforced. In fact can you give us some more money to beef up border security?"... "The border is leaking British goods? - I am shocked, shocked that trade is going on here".. etc etc...
Mr. 86, a few years ago, Wimbledon and F1 were the only sports the BBC had which met their audience targets (F1 doing better than Wimbledon). But they let F1 go, and, more than that, actively sought out Sky to prevent Channel 4 getting the sole rights.
Now, the sport won't be free-to-air at all from... 2019, I think it is. It's a shoddy way for a state broadcaster funded by compulsory taxation to behave.
It's also potentially damaging to the wider UK economy as most teams are based here and the sport adds about £1bn a year in taxation to the Treasury.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
So I take it you will have no problem when other EU nationals or non-EU nationals walk over to Northern Ireland. Or, will the Irish Ambassador stop them ?
In fact, we could go a bit further. No need to have customs check in Heathrow, Dover.......
Are you confusing "Freedom of Movement" with "Freedom of settlement with unfettered access to social security, social housing and the NHS"?
As to "Immigration control" I think you'll find you already need photo ID to pass between Ireland and the UK - unless you want to swim. As the Irish ambassador points out, why go to the faff of flying to Dublin, driving to Belfast then flying to the UK when you can fly directly to Stansted? Unless you think we're going to be issuing visas for European visitors?
Unless there are border checks, who are you going to show the photo ID ? Sorry, I forgot the Irish Ambassador will be there.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Have you ever travelled between Britain and Ireland?
Are you dim or what ? WTF is talking about Britain and Ireland. We are talking about Ireland and Northern Ireland [ you know, our colony ]. Part of the UK but not in GB.
There are no checks between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. Same country. If there are going to be no checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland, then effectively there will be no checks between the EU [ Ireland ] and Britain.
P.S. I don't know how I maintain my properties without going there.
Ah - an absentee liberal landlord - how amusing!
Liberal absentee landlord in Ireland? Hmmm... Does he support Parnell?
While the images are rather funny, is this really front page news material for a respected broadcaster like the BBC?
It’s not the picture itself, is it; it’s the fact that pictures like this are being widely circulated.
And that counts as news? Another reason to abolish the licence fee.
Oh goody, I do love it when anything, minor and major, is reason to abolish the licence fee. As regular as clockwork, if they make something too prominent, or not prominent enough, (and half the time such complaints are bigots as 'hidden' stories are reasonably prominent etc), if an Entertainment presenter says something stupid, if they send too many people or not enough people to an event, come rain or shine, it's time to abolish the licence fee.
The nearest thing I can equate it to is Scottish nationalists. Everything, no matter what, becomes justification for the outcome desired, so there may well be plenty of sense behind the position, maybe it is the best idea, but when everything is treated with equal seriousness - be it a luvvie being stupid, too many puff pieces or actual bias or incompetence - it somewhat undermines the message outside the core, since that's always the message.
See also 'the NHS is in crisis' (when isn't it?).
And before they angrily mock and dismiss me, could any nationalists note I specified 'maybe' there's plenty of sense and maybe even the best ideas coming from such people, it was about how the message, any message, can oversaturate depending on how it is transmitted.
Probably best waiting to be angrily mocked and dismissed before mounting a defence, otherwise you'll just end up flailing at an empty space.
French betting: on Ladbrokes, Macron's odds have lengthened a smidge to 2.75 (from 2.62), Fillon's odds tightened from 4.5 to 3.75. Le Pen steady at 3.
Still a couple of months to go, of course.
I'm still hoping some of the Melenchon/Hamon supporters will switch to Macron, but he really needs to be solidly clear. And looking at what happened in 2002 there is clearly a belligerence about some voters. And if Fillon makes the last two, I really think Le Pen has a chance.
"...Here’s the truth: both sides are now in a bubble.
Right now, Trump enjoys an 84 percent approval rating from Republicans and those who lean Republican, according to Pew Research; he gets just 8 percent approval from Democrats and those who lean that way. By contrast, at this point in their presidencies, Reagan had a 39 percent approval rating among Democrats; George H.W. Bush had a 46 percent approval rating among Democrats; Obama had a 37 percent approval rating from Republicans. This is the most polarized electorate in modern American history.
Quinnipiac pegs the polarization even more starkly: according to their polling, Trump has a 91 percent favorable rating among Republicans but a 3 percent favorable rating among Democrats. And we’re still less than a month in.
That’s because everybody is now seeing the news through the prism of revenge. That's not due to Trump. This has been brewing for years...
Trump isn't trying to unite America; he's trying to divide it. Them and us; it's not *your* fault; it's *theirs*. The truth is what I say it is.
It isn't a recipe for a healthy America going forwards.
I am sure there was someone pretty famous in the US who spent a number of years very publicly questioning whether Obama was actually qualified to be US president. Can't think who it was now. Anyone remember?
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
Yep - we'll then have to decide whether we want to create a hard border between NI and the UK. The unionists will love that.
What if the Irish don't want a hard border, the UK doesn't want a hard border and the EU does. My knowledge of Ireland suggests that *implementation* of a hard border against interests in the business community... well, good luck with that.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
@Morris_Dancer - I think F1 is in the last chance saloon. I know a number of people who have just stopped watching since they stopped showing all of the races free to air.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
Yep - we'll then have to decide whether we want to create a hard border between NI and the UK. The unionists will love that.
What if the Irish don't want a hard border, the UK doesn't want a hard border and the EU does. My knowledge of Ireland suggests that *implementation* of a hard border against interests in the business community... well, good luck with that.
it;s total bollocks
even today with the benign regime of no actual border, there; still lots of smuggling
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
Yep - we'll then have to decide whether we want to create a hard border between NI and the UK. The unionists will love that.
What if the Irish don't want a hard border, the UK doesn't want a hard border and the EU does. My knowledge of Ireland suggests that *implementation* of a hard border against interests in the business community... well, good luck with that.
it;s total bollocks
even today with the benign regime of no actual border, there; still lots of smuggling
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
In fact, we could go a bit further. No need to have customs check in Heathrow, Dover.......
>
Ah - an absentee liberal landlord - how amusing!
It is amazing how many of the fervent Remainers here have property in the EU. Colour me shocked.
I live in Spain and voted Remain. However, the result of the vote has to be respected and made the best of. People like Blair running down the UK is not helpful to the process.
Criticising Brexit at any cost is not running down the country. Running down the country is not permitting any critique of a course of action the government is taking.
Blair's words talked about the break-up of the UK and have been seized on by the SNP. Whatever the merits of the rest of his speech they were not helpful or appropriate for a former PM. It is painfully obvious he would like the result reversed - which I believe would be a body blow to the whole notion of democracy. The result was not one I wished for but we are where we are. He'd have been wiser to keep quiet not because of what he said so much as who he is. His credibility has been as forever destroyed as Cameron's [ sadly in the case of the latter].
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
Yep - we'll then have to decide whether we want to create a hard border between NI and the UK. The unionists will love that.
What if the Irish don't want a hard border, the UK doesn't want a hard border and the EU does. My knowledge of Ireland suggests that *implementation* of a hard border against interests in the business community... well, good luck with that.
Yep, a hard border between NI and the mainland would be much easier to enforce. The EU is very good at looking the other way and for most people on the mainland NI is an irrelevance - sad to say.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
yes the last sentence is much more likely to be the case since it's de facto what sort of happens already.
As for how Ireland develops in future that's really up to them.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
Yep - we'll then have to decide whether we want to create a hard border between NI and the UK. The unionists will love that.
What if the Irish don't want a hard border, the UK doesn't want a hard border and the EU does. My knowledge of Ireland suggests that *implementation* of a hard border against interests in the business community... well, good luck with that.
Yep, a hard border between NI and the mainland would be much easier to enforce. The EU is very good at looking the other way and for most people on the mainland NI is an irrelevance - sad to say.
and NI could have a differential tax regime within the UK
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
Yep - we'll then have to decide whether we want to create a hard border between NI and the UK. The unionists will love that.
What if the Irish don't want a hard border, the UK doesn't want a hard border and the EU does. My knowledge of Ireland suggests that *implementation* of a hard border against interests in the business community... well, good luck with that.
it;s total bollocks
even today with the benign regime of no actual border, there; still lots of smuggling
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
yes the last sentence is much more likely to be the case since it's de facto what sort of happens already.
As for how Ireland develops in future that's really up to them.
A hard border is much more than showing ID. Its car and lorry searches, its filling in forms and its limits on imports and exports. It makes much more sense for both Dublin and London to have that border between NI and the mainland rather than between Monaghan and Tyrone.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
Yep - we'll then have to decide whether we want to create a hard border between NI and the UK. The unionists will love that.
What if the Irish don't want a hard border, the UK doesn't want a hard border and the EU does. My knowledge of Ireland suggests that *implementation* of a hard border against interests in the business community... well, good luck with that.
Yep, a hard border between NI and the mainland would be much easier to enforce. The EU is very good at looking the other way and for most people on the mainland NI is an irrelevance - sad to say.
and NI could have a differential tax regime within the UK
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
The solution is clear - Ireland should leave the EU and form a British-Irish customs union (to complement the existing free travel area).
Give it 10 years, once the EU forces its members to surrender their neutrality in foreign affairs/defence, harmonises corporation tax, 'harmonises' abortion law...
Tom Freeman For 10 months now, Labour has been in remarkably constant decline. Alienating another 1% of the electorate every 6 or 7 weeks. https://t.co/fKBQ0ATRe7
Labour share was rising in the year to May last year before it started its recent decline.
In the last four months, Labour average share has declined from 29% to 27%, and the LibDem share has risen from 8% to 10%.
Technical note: I use an exponential moving average with a exponential weighting of 0.9 per data point.
EDIT Morris_Dancer says "Labour needn't worry. It won't keep going at that rate for much longer." If it did continue at this rate until May 2020, then Labour would be on 6% and LibDems on 33%.
Mr. 86, I wouldn't go quite that far. I think F1 is in the penultimate saloon.
It has a number of serious problems (incidentally, would PBers be interested in more news/opinion pieces on my blog, or prefer it to stick strictly to betting stuff?).
1) Lack of competitiveness at the sharp end. 2) The tyres are rubbish because the sport is asking for them to be rubbish. 3) The finances are both unfair and causing terminal harm to smaller teams. 4) The classic races are being dropped/endangered whilst crap circuits in Dictatorland are welcomed. 5) No longer free-to-air (half now, all in a few years) reducing audience and then sponsor interest.
None of these are insurmountable but unless progress is made (and I'd argue the TV coverage is the single biggest one to change) then interest, audience and revenue will decline.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
The solution is clear - Ireland should leave the EU and form a British-Irish customs union (to complement the existing free travel area).
Give it 10 years, once the EU forces its members to surrender their neutrality in foreign affairs/defence, harmonises corporation tax, 'harmonises' abortion law...
It's one they haven't got round to repealing where it's illegal in Germany to insult the head of state of a foreign country - a poet was prosecuted under it recently for being rude about Erdogan.
"...Here’s the truth: both sides are now in a bubble.
Right now, Trump enjoys an 84 percent approval rating from Republicans and those who lean Republican, according to Pew Research; he gets just 8 percent approval from Democrats and those who lean that way. By contrast, at this point in their presidencies, Reagan had a 39 percent approval rating among Democrats; George H.W. Bush had a 46 percent approval rating among Democrats; Obama had a 37 percent approval rating from Republicans. This is the most polarized electorate in modern American history.
Quinnipiac pegs the polarization even more starkly: according to their polling, Trump has a 91 percent favorable rating among Republicans but a 3 percent favorable rating among Democrats. And we’re still less than a month in.
That’s because everybody is now seeing the news through the prism of revenge. That's not due to Trump. This has been brewing for years...
Trump isn't trying to unite America; he's trying to divide it. Them and us; it's not *your* fault; it's *theirs*. The truth is what I say it is.
It isn't a recipe for a healthy America going forwards.
I am sure there was someone pretty famous in the US who spent a number of years very publicly questioning whether Obama was actually qualified to be US president. Can't think who it was now. Anyone remember?
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
While the images are rather funny, is this really front page news material for a respected broadcaster like the BBC?
It’s not the picture itself, is it; it’s the fact that pictures like this are being widely circulated.
And that counts as news? Another reason to abolish the licence fee.
Oh goody, I do love it when anything, minor and major, is reason to abolish the licence fee. As regular as clockwork, if they make something too prominent, or not prominent enough, (and half the time such complaints are bigots as 'hidden' stories are reasonably prominent etc), if an Entertainment presenter says something stupid, if they send too many people or not enough people to an event, come rain or shine, it's time to abolish the licence fee.
The nearest thing I can equate it to is Scottish nationalists. Everything, no matter what, becomes justification for the outcome desired, so there may well be plenty of sense behind the position, maybe it is the best idea, but when everything is treated with equal seriousness - be it a luvvie being stupid, too many puff pieces or actual bias or incompetence - it somewhat undermines the message outside the core, since that's always the message.
See also 'the NHS is in crisis' (when isn't it?).
Nice reply. I think my biggest gripe with the BBC is the way they spend their sports rights budget. They insist on buying rights to events that are on the crown jewels list. MotD and Wimbledon would be free to air television even if the BBC didn't bid for them. Yet the BBC still spend an extraordinary amount on these rights to keep them off ITV/Channel 4/5 etc. The Open Championship, which isn't on the list, was ditched by the BBC over a far smaller amount of money.
Now you might argue that the Crown Jewels list needs updating/abolishing, but the BBC's should care more about keeping more sport on free to air television rather than securing events that they think should be on the BBC rather than a commercial free to air rival.
I am a bit grumpy this morning I'll admit. While the BBC also gets criticism for not spending on sports that aren't free to air e.g. F1, you may have a point it could be rethought.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
Why? Why do we need a hard border at all? If the EU are so concerned about borders and tariffs let them have a hard border between Ireland and the rest of the EU. If neither Ireland nor the UK want borders then there is no reason for them to create them.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
Why? Why do we need a hard border at all? If the EU are so concerned about borders and tariffs let them have a hard border between Ireland and the rest of the EU. If neither Ireland nor the UK want borders then there is no reason for them to create them.
It's one they haven't got round to repealing where it's illegal in Germany to insult the head of state of a foreign country - a poet was prosecuted under it recently for being rude about Erdogan.
While the images are rather funny, is this really front page news material for a respected broadcaster like the BBC?
It’s not the picture itself, is it; it’s the fact that pictures like this are being widely circulated.
And that counts as news? Another reason to abolish the licence fee.
Oh goody, I do love it when anything, minor and major, is reason to abolish the licence fee. As regular as clockwork, if they make something too prominent, or not prominent enough, (and half the time such complaints are bigots as 'hidden' stories are reasonably prominent etc), if an Entertainment presenter says something stupid, if they send too many people or not enough people to an event, come rain or shine, it's time to abolish the licence fee.
The nearest thing I can equate it to is Scottish nationalists. Everything, no matter what, becomes justification for the outcome desired, so there may well be plenty of sense behind the position, maybe it is the best idea, but when everything is treated with equal seriousness - be it a luvvie being stupid, too many puff pieces or actual bias or incompetence - it somewhat undermines the message outside the core, since that's always the message.
See also 'the NHS is in crisis' (when isn't it?).
And before they angrily mock and dismiss me, could any nationalists note I specified 'maybe' there's plenty of sense and maybe even the best ideas coming from such people, it was about how the message, any message, can oversaturate depending on how it is transmitted.
Probably best waiting to be angrily mocked and dismissed before mounting a defence, otherwise you'll just end up flailing at an empty space.
As I say, I am grumpy this morning. Your point is true, but then experience has taught me I had about a 50 /50 shot between making the original post and including that edit before dear old malcg, who I do respect, or someove decided to reply ,, lol, if your lot weren't do crap maybe we wouldn't bring it up so much, a village has lost its idiot'.
Preemptive can be, well, premature, but sometimes it saves time and on topics where people habitually respond in a certain way, I play the odds. There are any number of topics where you can predict 75% of the time what the response will be. I hit the 25% and guessed wrong this time (or the defence worked).
Since you would never mock or dismiss a point on reflex in such a way, you can probably relax while I have a morning cuppaand then a calming walk.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
Why? Why do we need a hard border at all? If the EU are so concerned about borders and tariffs let them have a hard border between Ireland and the rest of the EU. If neither Ireland nor the UK want borders then there is no reason for them to create them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
Why? Why do we need a hard border at all? If the EU are so concerned about borders and tariffs let them have a hard border between Ireland and the rest of the EU. If neither Ireland nor the UK want borders then there is no reason for them to create them.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
Why? Why do we need a hard border at all? If the EU are so concerned about borders and tariffs let them have a hard border between Ireland and the rest of the EU. If neither Ireland nor the UK want borders then there is no reason for them to create them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
It's one they haven't got round to repealing where it's illegal in Germany to insult the head of state of a foreign country - a poet was prosecuted under it recently for being rude about Erdogan.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
Why? Why do we need a hard border at all? If the EU are so concerned about borders and tariffs let them have a hard border between Ireland and the rest of the EU. If neither Ireland nor the UK want borders then there is no reason for them to create them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
And Welsh.
They are entirely irrelevant to the government, though.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
Some us can't afford to overlook the implications of the British Empire, and are committing the terrible crime of not wanting any race particular to dominant society/the world, but equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc.
Mr. Blue, assuming those things happen, it'll be even more difficult for Ireland to extricate itself from the tentacles of Brussels.
we spent 800 hundred years fighting the British empire so we could take orders from the Luxemburgers
PB Tory fantasy. Recreating the British Empire one country at a time.
Yep. But the British Empire is over.
The time of formal empire is over for everyone.the British empire was far from the worst empire, but empires have had their day. Dreaming of formal or informal closer ties with former members of the empire, or outright reunion, is unrealistic but so long as violent takeover is not advocated, it's not sinister either so remains a harmless dream.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
If there has to be a global hegemon, and history indicates those are the times of greatest peace and prosperity, yes I would prefer it to be us. The Brits. Who would you prefer? The Mongols?
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, if there are controls it is likely to be the EU trying to protect its own barriers to entry and avoid say, American or Indian companies sending their goods tariff free into the EU via Belfast and Londonderry. Although neither we nor the Irish will like it, I'm not sure there's much we can do particularly if they decide to play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
Why? Why do we need a hard border at all? If the EU are so concerned about borders and tariffs let them have a hard border between Ireland and the rest of the EU. If neither Ireland nor the UK want borders then there is no reason for them to create them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
And Welsh.
They are entirely irrelevant to the government, though.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The Irish were subjugated by the British for 700 years. They were deprived of their land and their rights. They were starved from their country. And now they see the British causing them no end of trouble again. One thing is sure, though: they will take whatever is thrown at them as an alternative to getting back into bed with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - plenty. If you want some real ROFLs you can tell me that any Irish government would at any stage propose leaving the EU in order to form closer ties with the UK. But you know, as I do, that it will never, ever happen. Much more likely is the creation of a de facto hard border between Northern Ireland and the mainland.
Why? Why do we need a hard border at all? If the EU are so concerned about borders and tariffs let them have a hard border between Ireland and the rest of the EU. If neither Ireland nor the UK want borders then there is no reason for them to create them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
That would be utterly Irish - the guards will police the border, as only the guards can.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
If there has to be a global hegemon, and history indicates those are the times of greatest peace and prosperity, yes I would prefer it to be us. The Brits. Who would you prefer? The Mongols?
Well yeah, the peace and prosperity was great - for white people. As the granddaughter of Jamaican immigrants on my mother's side, I do not pine for Jamacia to be recolonised. I do not exclusively associate success and prosperity with whiteness. As a mixed kid, it would be odd too.
French betting: on Ladbrokes, Macron's odds have lengthened a smidge to 2.75 (from 2.62), Fillon's odds tightened from 4.5 to 3.75. Le Pen steady at 3.
Still a couple of months to go, of course.
I'm still hoping some of the Melenchon/Hamon supporters will switch to Macron, but he really needs to be solidly clear. And looking at what happened in 2002 there is clearly a belligerence about some voters. And if Fillon makes the last two, I really think Le Pen has a chance.
I worry about Macron. He needs to be in the run-off to stop Le Pen, because as you say, Fillon v Le Pen gives her a real chance.
However he seems to be losing ground against Fillon at a time when he should have been surging ahead due to the Fillon scandal. And he is not helping his cause by upsetting both left and right over the past few days.
The two rolling polls on friday showed Macron and Fillon neck and neck and the above means that in tomorrow's two head to heads, Fillon is likely to be ahead in one if not both.
I said on here a couple of days ago that all three of the front runners should be about the same price.. and that seems to be where we are heading.
Big story in today's Mail suggests Edward Heath was a notoriously bad driver of a 1970s Rover
I am not sure that is intended to be the main thrust of the story. I am not sure that "he couldn't have buggered little boys because he didn't have a car" is the most compelling argument I have ever seen, either.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
I think you will find that Sean was joking. And I seriously doubt you have seen anyone else here advocating the same thing - could we have a name?
And how do you "actively see" things?
SeanT's response to me just now kind of implies it wasn't a joke. Although it's a fairly odd joke if it was one. I don't particularly care whether you doubt it or not; but it was around the time that Steve Bannon was announced as WH Chief of Staff in one of the threads. I don't keep names in my head for weeks on end, but you can search threads on PB vanilla to around that time period if you're that interested.
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - mainland.
Why? them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
I seem to remember that being said.
If companies can freely import to the UK through Ireland without tariffs, then it would make a mockery of any British attempt to impose them in the absence of a Brexit agreement on trade with the EU. It would also be absolutely brilliant for the whole island of Ireland. Probably less brilliant for the island of Great Britain, though.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
Who knows - he's also a self professed fan of Italian pre war fascism. Sean appears to be a provocateur by instinct. Whether his argument is one for free speech (that it shouldn't be a potential criminal offence to,advocate white supremacy), or whether he's actually in favour of racial conflict is not entirely clear.
Mr. G, it may be the Curse of Morris Dancer. Whomsoever he shall backeth in a presidential, prime ministerial, or party leadership market shall fail utterly. And lo, shall it be.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
Yep - we'll then have to decide whether we want to create a hard border between NI and the UK. The unionists will love that.
What if the Irish don't want a hard border, the UK doesn't want a hard border and the EU does. My knowledge of Ireland suggests that *implementation* of a hard border against interests in the business community... well, good luck with that.
Yep, a hard border between NI and the mainland would be much easier to enforce. The EU is very good at looking the other way and for most people on the mainland NI is an irrelevance - sad to say.
How would the EU "enforce" a hard border between bits of the UK?
The basic state of affairs is that no-one on the actual borders involved wants a "hard" border. Ireland<->NI<->Mainland. Short of the Germans sending in GSG-9*.....
The issue is that if there is a tariff on UK goods, it will take 30-40 seconds for the cross border trade** (which already happens) to accelerate.
*To get around sensitivities to "special" units in the German Army, GSG-9 was formed (formally) as part of the Border Police.
Mr. G, it may be the Curse of Morris Dancer. Whomsoever he shall backeth in a presidential, prime ministerial, or party leadership market shall fail utterly. And lo, shall it be.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
Some us can't afford to overlook the implications of the British Empire, and are committing the terrible crime of not wanting any race particular to dominant society/the world, but equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc.
I didn't say you should overlook it, I said you could be assured it's him at least he was not likely serious, though admittedly it was at best insensitive and provocative, the implication being he would likely shy away when confronted with reality. Though he nay disagreeight now, we shell see.
People wax nostalgic for the past and its simplicity and glory all the time, they might claim to yearn for a similar time of glory, but they would be horrified, in most cases, of what would also need to happen for it to happen. Some people in Russia apparently think Stalin was not so bad as Russia was great in his time, but I'd be confident most would not genuinely be happy to recreate the reality of his time.
Sure, dont overlook implications, but a simplistic, nostalgic view of the past does not always reflect people's cores,even if they think it does. We were the dominant nation on Earth, people can miss that, but very few even on here would advocate genuine recreation. They dream of a similar status as then, with the comforts and freedoms people, all people have today. But they'd never like it if it happened, due to what would need to take place.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
Point of clarification - in the PB Fascist hierarchy of races, where do the Japanese sit?
Under Apartheid they were given honorary white status (not for economic reasons you understand, there was sound research based on hair diameter or something). Would we do the same thing to keep Nissan in Sunderland?
Just trying to clarify how this white supremacy idea would work out in practice.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
If there has to be a global hegemon, and history indicates those are the times of greatest peace and prosperity, yes I would prefer it to be us. The Brits. Who would you prefer? The Mongols?
Well yeah, the peace and prosperity was great - for white people. As the granddaughter of Jamaican immigrants on my mother's side, I do not pine for Jamacia to be recolonised. I do not exclusively associate success and prosperity with whiteness. As a mixed kid, it would be odd too.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
Some us can't afford to overlook the implications of the British Empire, and are committing the terrible crime of not wanting any race particular to dominant society/the world, but equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
Who knows - he's also a self professed fan of Italian pre war fascism. Sean appears to be a provocateur by instinct. Whether his argument is one for free speech (that it shouldn't be a potential criminal offence to,advocate white supremacy), or whether he's actually in favour of racial conflict is not entirely clear.
Sails a little close to the line for my tastes, but mercurial us the word that springs to mind.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
Who knows - he's also a self professed fan of Italian pre war fascism. Sean appears to be a provocateur by instinct. Whether his argument is one for free speech (that it shouldn't be a potential criminal offence to,advocate white supremacy), or whether he's actually in favour of racial conflict is not entirely clear.
Italian fascism had its good points. Mussolini didn't much like killing Jews, despite the insistence of his allies, so he enacted a law that anyone belonging to, or having a close relative belonging to, the National Fascist Party, was by definition not Jewish. Rather admirable.
I fear the protesters have got it wrong - if anyone orders customs checks at the Irish border - it won't be the British - or the Irish - it will be the EU:
There will have to be customs checks at the border if there is no customs union.
Comprehensive customs and border checks between Ireland and Northern Ireland are not remotely possible, the Irish ambassador to the UK has said, predicting the EU will recognise the unique nature of the border when Brexit causes the UK to leave both the single market and customs union.
Yep - we'll then have to decide whether we want to create a hard border between NI and the UK. The unionists will love that.
What if the Irish don't want a hard border, the UK doesn't want a hard border and the EU does. My knowledge of Ireland suggests that *implementation* of a hard border against interests in the business community... well, good luck with that.
Yep, a hard border between NI and the mainland would be much easier to enforce. The EU is very good at looking the other way and for most people on the mainland NI is an irrelevance - sad to say.
How would the EU "enforce" a hard border between bits of the UK?
The basic state of affairs is that no-one on the actual borders involved wants a "hard" border. Ireland<->NI<->Mainland. Short of the Germans sending in GSG-9*.....
The issue is that if there is a tariff on UK goods, it will take 30-40 seconds for the cross border trade** (which already happens) to accelerate.
*To get around sensitivities to "special" units in the German Army, GSG-9 was formed (formally) as part of the Border Police.
** Gravity pipes between diesel tanks and all.
It's the English (and Welsh) who have voted for hard borders.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
Who knows - he's also a self professed fan of Italian pre war fascism. Sean appears to be a provocateur by instinct. Whether his argument is one for free speech (that it shouldn't be a potential criminal offence to,advocate white supremacy), or whether he's actually in favour of racial conflict is not entirely clear.
People should be allowed to say what they want. But, it can also be challenged as well.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
If there has to be a global hegemon, and history indicates those are the times of greatest peace and prosperity, yes I would prefer it to be us. The Brits. Who would you prefer? The Mongols?
Well yeah, the peace and prosperity was great - for white people. As the granddaughter of Jamaican immigrants on my mother's side, I do not pine for Jamacia to be recolonised. I do not exclusively associate success and prosperity with whiteness. As a mixed kid, it would be odd too.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Obviously, but that "border" can be at ports in Northern Ireland, not at the border with the Republic. The border between the UK and Ireland will likely remain just as open as it is today, and lots of people will continue to take legitimate and some illegitimate advantage of that.
I don't expect a great deal of difference to what happens now, which in practice is that relatively low costs goods are smuggled in large quantities.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
Point of clarification - in the PB Fascist hierarchy of races, where do the Japanese sit?
Under Apartheid they were given honorary white status (not for economic reasons you understand, there was sound research based on hair diameter or something). Would we do the same thing to keep Nissan in Sunderland?
Just trying to clarify how this white supremacy idea would work out in practice.
That reminds me of the hierarchy of racism constructed by the Japanese during WWII. They actually got to the point of writing it down.
Mr. T, XI Jinping's more militant than Hu Jintao was. First built up military capacity, then sabre-rattled over the disputed islands with the Japanese, then performed a massive land-grab in the South China Sea.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
I think you will find that Sean was joking. And I seriously doubt you have seen anyone else here advocating the same thing - could we have a name?
And how do you "actively see" things?
SeanT's response to me just now kind of implies it wasn't a joke. Although it's a fairly odd joke if it was one. I don't particularly care whether you doubt it or not; but it was around the time that Steve Bannon was announced as WH Chief of Staff in one of the threads. I don't keep names in my head for weeks on end, but you can search threads on PB vanilla to around that time period if you're that interested.
"PBers are convinced that the planet Mars is made of gluten-free fruitcake, there was definitely a thread about it some months ago, I can't be arsed to look it up, you have a go if you care".
Another point: High tariff item. What will stop the importer having it pass through Ireland into Northern Ireland ?
Other way around, surely? Traditionally Britain has always been very suspicious of tariffs, and it's unlikely we will impose high ones, or even be in a position to do so given the amount of external trading we will need to do after leaving the EU.
However, the EU has always had very high tariffs on a number of things, especially food, to protect its main customers and force the single market more firmly together.
Therefore, play silly buggers in the exit negotiations.
From the Republic's perspective, they face the prospect of much cheaper global imports being available in Northern Ireland if the UK starts abolishing EU style tariffs and quotas.
The Irish are riding the wrong horse.
The with us.
lol
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Yep - mainland.
Why? them.
The English have voted to create hard borders.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Brexit means Brexit and that apparently means leaving the single market and the customs union. We can only do that with hard borders.
I seem to remember that being said.
If companies can freely import to the UK through Ireland without tariffs, then it would make a mockery of any British attempt to impose them in the absence of a Brexit agreement on trade with the EU. It would also be absolutely brilliant for the whole island of Ireland. Probably less brilliant for the island of Great Britain, though.
What would happen if the UK unilaterally rejected the idea of import tariffs altogether? Suppose we just said "If you want to flog us stuff then HMG will not get in your way".
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
Some us can't afford to overlook the implications of the British Empire, and are committing the terrible crime of not wanting any race particular to dominant society/the world, but equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc.
I didn't say you should overlook it, I said you could be assured it's him at least he was not likely serious, though admittedly it was at best insensitive and provocative, the implication being he would likely shy away when confronted with reality. Though he nay disagreeight now, we shell see.
People wax nostalgic for the past and its simplicity and glory all the time, they might claim to yearn for a similar time of glory, but they would be horrified, in most cases, of what would also need to happen for it to happen. Some people in Russia apparently think Stalin was not so bad as Russia was great in his time, but I'd be confident most would not genuinely be happy to recreate the reality of his time.
Sure, dont overlook implications, but a simplistic, nostalgic view of the past does not always reflect people's cores,even if they think it does. We were the dominant nation on Earth, people can miss that, but very few even on here would advocate genuine recreation. They dream of a similar status as then, with the comforts and freedoms people, all people have today.
Polling shows over half of Russian think Stalin, on balance, a good thing. And Putin's having a shot at recreating some rather unpleasant aspects of that past, with majority approval.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Why would we return to stricter limits? Again you are making assumptions and predictions that have no basis in fact.
No they haven't. That is just your weird monomania coming to the fore again. The only organisation that will be pushing for a hard border on the island of Ireland or within the British Isles will be the EU. Since they are the problem I suggest you look to them for the solution.
Surely what will happen is that Ireland and the UK will tell the EU that we have created a hard border, but it will be awfully run and entirely ineffective, and we will assure the EU that we will get around to fixing it ASAP.
How do you prevent the cut-price cigarettes and booze that come into the UK via the Irish Republic ending up on the mainland?
We don't? As far as I am aware nobody has trouble smuggling such stuff today.
We will have to. If current EU levels of import "for personal consumption" continue between the RoI and NI, while we leave the customs union and single market and return to much stricter personal limits for imports to Britain from the EU (as are imposed for the RoW), then at some location there will have to be a hard border or it will substantially undermine retailers on the mainland.
Ha Ha. Its the way you tell them.
Tobacco sales in the UK rely on the existence of people who don't "know a bloke at the Dog & Duck". The market for smuggled stuff is basically saturated.
Booze is pretty much the same - vans loads arriving at Dover. For personal consumption, of course
Essentially anyone non-middle class (and quite a few middle class people*) are smoking smuggled tobacco. Do you really think the poor are paying £10 a pack for Rothamans?
*Listen to the discussions in any office between the smokers and anyone about to travel to a lower taxed location.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
I think you will find that Sean was joking. And I seriously doubt you have seen anyone else here advocating the same thing - could we have a name?
And how do you "actively see" things?
SeanT's response to me just now kind of implies it wasn't a joke. Although it's a fairly odd joke if it was one. I don't particularly care whether you doubt it or not; but it was around the time that Steve Bannon was announced as WH Chief of Staff in one of the threads. I don't keep names in my head for weeks on end, but you can search threads on PB vanilla to around that time period if you're that interested.
"PBers are convinced that the planet Mars is made of gluten-free fruitcake, there was definitely a thread about it some months ago, I can't be arsed to look it up, you have a go if you care".
Put up or shut up.
You already said this to me last week. You're not going to get what you want from me, generally because I don't really care about proving things to you.
Mr. Malmesbury, in the first half of the 20th century when Darwinism was around but evolution not properly understood (perhaps on purpose) there were believed to be different human races. I think the British ordering was European top, then Far East, then Indian, then black.
However, there were hierarchies within these as well. So, an Englishman would be superior to a Frenchman, for example.
It seems odd and disturbing now, but that's what people really thought, some, at least. In Germany this mingled with Nietzsche and so on, leading some people to genuinely believe that they would improve the human race by eliminating its weakest elements and encouraging 'proper' breeding.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
Point of clarification - in the PB Fascist hierarchy of races, where do the Japanese sit?
Under Apartheid they were given honorary white status (not for economic reasons you understand, there was sound research based on hair diameter or something). Would we do the same thing to keep Nissan in Sunderland?
Just trying to clarify how this white supremacy idea would work out in practice.
Hitler brought them into the Axis in 1940, if that helps.
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
The day before he was sympathetically encouraging remainers and reassuring them it will get easier with time, given en his daily fluctuations I think with him at least you can be assured he was being momentarily wistful about a time of British dominance when we were happened to also be nearly all white, rather than seriously reflective of the full implications.
Some us can't afford to overlook the implications of the British Empire, and are committing the terrible crime of not wanting any race particular to dominant society/the world, but equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, etc.
I didn't say you should overlook it, I said you could be assured it's him at least he was not likely serious, though admittedly it was at best insensitive and provocative, the implication being he would likely shy away when confronted with reality. Though he nay disagreeight now, we shell see.
People wax nostalgic for the past and its simplicity and glory all the time, they might claim to yearn for a similar time of glory, but they would be horrified, in most cases, of what would also need to happen for it to happen. Some people in Russia apparently think Stalin was not so bad as Russia was great in his time, but I'd be confident most would not genuinely be happy to recreate the reality of his time.
Sure, dont overlook implications, but a simplistic, nostalgic view of the past does not always reflect people's cores,even if they think it does. We were the dominant nation on Earth, people can miss that, but very few even on here would advocate genuine recreation. They dream of a similar status as then, with the comforts and freedoms people, all people have today.
Polling shows over half of Russian think Stalin, on balance, a good thing. And Putin's having a shot at recreating some rather unpleasant aspects of that past, with majority approval.
Back in Yeltsin's time the following was a grim joke -
"People remember that under Stalin there was food and there was order."
Mr. Malmesbury, in the first half of the 20th century when Darwinism was around but evolution not properly understood (perhaps on purpose) there were believed to be different human races. I think the British ordering was European top, then Far East, then Indian, then black.
However, there were hierarchies within these as well. So, an Englishman would be superior to a Frenchman, for example.
It seems odd and disturbing now, but that's what people really thought, some, at least. In Germany this mingled with Nietzsche and so on, leading some people to genuinely believe that they would improve the human race by eliminating its weakest elements and encouraging 'proper' breeding.
Yes, I know. It was entertaining to me, that that first thing the Japanese did was create their own little list. Which was, IIRC, only a slight edit of the European one (abstract, not written down) one...
Reading yesterday's threads and seeing SeanT say that he wants white supremacy back.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
Point of clarification - in the PB Fascist hierarchy of races, where do the Japanese sit?
Under Apartheid they were given honorary white status (not for economic reasons you understand, there was sound research based on hair diameter or something). Would we do the same thing to keep Nissan in Sunderland?
Just trying to clarify how this white supremacy idea would work out in practice.
Hitler brought them into the Axis in 1940, if that helps.
Was that admirable as well, or are you just a Mussolini fanboy?
Comments
I assume youve never read an Irish history
Now, the sport won't be free-to-air at all from... 2019, I think it is. It's a shoddy way for a state broadcaster funded by compulsory taxation to behave.
It's also potentially damaging to the wider UK economy as most teams are based here and the sport adds about £1bn a year in taxation to the Treasury.
even today with the benign regime of no actual border, there; still lots of smuggling
As for how Ireland develops in future that's really up to them.
Give it 10 years, once the EU forces its members to surrender their neutrality in foreign affairs/defence, harmonises corporation tax, 'harmonises' abortion law...
In the last four months, Labour average share has declined from 29% to 27%, and the LibDem share has risen from 8% to 10%.
Technical note: I use an exponential moving average with a exponential weighting of 0.9 per data point.
EDIT Morris_Dancer says "Labour needn't worry. It won't keep going at that rate for much longer." If it did continue at this rate until May 2020, then Labour would be on 6% and LibDems on 33%.
It has a number of serious problems (incidentally, would PBers be interested in more news/opinion pieces on my blog, or prefer it to stick strictly to betting stuff?).
1) Lack of competitiveness at the sharp end.
2) The tyres are rubbish because the sport is asking for them to be rubbish.
3) The finances are both unfair and causing terminal harm to smaller teams.
4) The classic races are being dropped/endangered whilst crap circuits in Dictatorland are welcomed.
5) No longer free-to-air (half now, all in a few years) reducing audience and then sponsor interest.
None of these are insurmountable but unless progress is made (and I'd argue the TV coverage is the single biggest one to change) then interest, audience and revenue will decline.
AUSTRALIA: 140,000 families have been cut off from government childcare payments for not vaccinating their children
Golly, no nonsense from Australia re herd immunity
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/26/germany-scrap-law-bans-insulting-foreign-leaders/
There are few things quite so stupid as children suffering or dying due to preventable diseases.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-media-reince-priebus-235181
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huXtwY-eJ5g
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/warum-jan-boehmermann-vor-gericht-gescheitert-ist-14871644.html
It's somewhat laughable listening to Germany critisising Trump as it throws stones through the windows of its own glasshouse
Preemptive can be, well, premature, but sometimes it saves time and on topics where people habitually respond in a certain way, I play the odds. There are any number of topics where you can predict 75% of the time what the response will be. I hit the 25% and guessed wrong this time (or the defence worked).
Since you would never mock or dismiss a point on reflex in such a way, you can probably relax while I have a morning cuppaand then a calming walk.
Well, it never went away.
This isn't the first time on this site I've actively seen PBers advocate a white supremacy though....hmmm.....
And how do you "actively see" things?
However he seems to be losing ground against Fillon at a time when he should have been surging ahead due to the Fillon scandal. And he is not helping his cause by upsetting both left and right over the past few days.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/macron-falters-as-he-upsets-both-left-and-right-35462921.html
The two rolling polls on friday showed Macron and Fillon neck and neck and the above means that in tomorrow's two head to heads, Fillon is likely to be ahead in one if not both.
I said on here a couple of days ago that all three of the front runners should be about the same price.. and that seems to be where we are heading.
The UK and the US are it's two most significant trading partners, both for imports and exports.
Sean appears to be a provocateur by instinct. Whether his argument is one for free speech (that it shouldn't be a potential criminal offence to,advocate white supremacy), or whether he's actually in favour of racial conflict is not entirely clear.
The basic state of affairs is that no-one on the actual borders involved wants a "hard" border. Ireland<->NI<->Mainland. Short of the Germans sending in GSG-9*.....
The issue is that if there is a tariff on UK goods, it will take 30-40 seconds for the cross border trade** (which already happens) to accelerate.
*To get around sensitivities to "special" units in the German Army, GSG-9 was formed (formally) as part of the Border Police.
** Gravity pipes between diesel tanks and all.
People wax nostalgic for the past and its simplicity and glory all the time, they might claim to yearn for a similar time of glory, but they would be horrified, in most cases, of what would also need to happen for it to happen. Some people in Russia apparently think Stalin was not so bad as Russia was great in his time, but I'd be confident most would not genuinely be happy to recreate the reality of his time.
Sure, dont overlook implications, but a simplistic, nostalgic view of the past does not always reflect people's cores,even if they think it does. We were the dominant nation on Earth, people can miss that, but very few even on here would advocate genuine recreation. They dream of a similar status as then, with the comforts and freedoms people, all people have today. But they'd never like it if it happened, due to what would need to take place.
Under Apartheid they were given honorary white status (not for economic reasons you understand, there was sound research based on hair diameter or something). Would we do the same thing to keep Nissan in Sunderland?
Just trying to clarify how this white supremacy idea would work out in practice.
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20110628/lead/lead1.html
Your grandparents made a wise decision.
I don't expect a great deal of difference to what happens now, which in practice is that relatively low costs goods are smuggled in large quantities.
Mr. T, XI Jinping's more militant than Hu Jintao was. First built up military capacity, then sabre-rattled over the disputed islands with the Japanese, then performed a massive land-grab in the South China Sea.
Put up or shut up.
Tobacco sales in the UK rely on the existence of people who don't "know a bloke at the Dog & Duck". The market for smuggled stuff is basically saturated.
Booze is pretty much the same - vans loads arriving at Dover. For personal consumption, of course
Essentially anyone non-middle class (and quite a few middle class people*) are smoking smuggled tobacco. Do you really think the poor are paying £10 a pack for Rothamans?
*Listen to the discussions in any office between the smokers and anyone about to travel to a lower taxed location.
So that makes it okay? You already said this to me last week. You're not going to get what you want from me, generally because I don't really care about proving things to you.
However, there were hierarchies within these as well. So, an Englishman would be superior to a Frenchman, for example.
It seems odd and disturbing now, but that's what people really thought, some, at least. In Germany this mingled with Nietzsche and so on, leading some people to genuinely believe that they would improve the human race by eliminating its weakest elements and encouraging 'proper' breeding.
"People remember that under Stalin there was food and there was order."
"What do they want now?"
"Lots of food and lots of order."