Great comment in rebuttal of those Remain snobs who sneer that Brexit was won by the less educated:
"However, how much does a Cambridge professor understand about the effects of a factory closure due to emissions regulations emanating from the EU? Have they seen the devastation the resulting unemployment can cause? The people in the know might have the least education, but almost certainly have the most knowledge!"
This is very much what High Reliability Organisations (those that work in very dangerous, complex industries where accidents are highly consequential, but which nevertheless manage extraordinarily high level of safety and reliability) preach - the person who spots the problem, or who might have the solution to it, could be a nobody in organizational or education terms. So respect and listen to everybody.
Can I signal that I'm fed up of the phrase virtue signaller?
Even though I have used the phrase virtue signalling more often than I care to admit, I can assure you that I'm not attempting to signal any virtue by signalling I'm fed of the overuse of virtue signalling.
I'm just fed up with the overuse of virtue signalling.
"Factory closure due to emissions regulations emanating from the EU" - citation needed, as well as a plausible rationale for why Brexit Britain would abandon said regulations.
Great comment in rebuttal of those Remain snobs who sneer that Brexit was won by the less educated:
"However, how much does a Cambridge professor understand about the effects of a factory closure due to emissions regulations emanating from the EU? Have they seen the devastation the resulting unemployment can cause? The people in the know might have the least education, but almost certainly have the most knowledge!"
This is very much what High Reliability Organisations (those that work in very dangerous, complex industries where accidents are highly consequential, but which nevertheless manage extraordinarily high level of safety and reliability) preach - the person who spots the problem, or who might have the solution to it, could be a nobody in organizational or education terms. So respect and listen to everybody.
Can I signal that I'm fed up of the phrase virtue signaller?
Even though I have used the phrase virtue signalling more often than I care to admit, I can assure you that I'm not attempting to signal any virtue by signalling I'm fed of the overuse of virtue signalling.
I'm just fed up with the overuse of virtue signalling.
Yeh, me too. It's still a damn useful phrase though...
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
Not being a virtue signaller is different from being right wing.
If you think offering refuge to children fleeing civil war is "virtue signaling" you are probably not in the best position to be judging what is right wing or not
Certainly, but right now, taking in more unaccompanied children would mean crowding them into childrens' homes (at best) putting them out on the streets (at worst).
There's a factual issue which it seems urgent to clear up here. Some councils (e.g. Devon County Council) say they have offered to take more than their allocation but the offer has not been taken up. The Government says that the number they've agreed to take is the maximum that councils were willing to offer. Whatever one's view of the issue (unless one thinks that looking after refugee children is per se bad), we could do with knowing the facts.
Great comment in rebuttal of those Remain snobs who sneer that Brexit was won by the less educated:
"However, how much does a Cambridge professor understand about the effects of a factory closure due to emissions regulations emanating from the EU? Have they seen the devastation the resulting unemployment can cause? The people in the know might have the least education, but almost certainly have the most knowledge!"
This is very much what High Reliability Organisations (those that work in very dangerous, complex industries where accidents are highly consequential, but which nevertheless manage extraordinarily high level of safety and reliability) preach - the person who spots the problem, or who might have the solution to it, could be a nobody in organizational or education terms. So respect and listen to everybody.
Note however that the number of emissions regulations emanating from the EU which were not agreed to by the British Government is I believe zero. And the number that Briain will waive after withdrawal is almost certainly also close to zero. Even when I was in Parliament I was irritated by the tendency of Ministers to agree something in Brussels and then moan about it when it arrived as an EU regulation.
I 'keep banging on about it' (talk about something that the left doesn't like for half an hour on a thread) because certain partisan posters won't accept that there is something to be called out here.
Nah you just want to have a crack at ' the left' cos you don't like them. And you think this is a handy stick to have some fun with.
I suspect you don't give a toss about the issue or politicians' integrity. After all the latter is not an issue confined to the left as Nuttall ably demonstrates.
You just want to have a crack at 'the right' cos you don't like them!
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
No need to make any distinction between the ones that the Government is allowing to come and the ones that it isn't. Because the total from now on is going to be a shameful big round zero.
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
Not being a virtue signaller is different from being right wing.
If you think offering refuge to children fleeing civil war is "virtue signaling" you are probably not in the best position to be judging what is right wing or not
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
You are cementing your reputation as one of the lunatics howling from the sidelines. Of course the pendulum will swing. That's what they do. But it will be far too late to stop Brexit.
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
Not being a virtue signaller is different from being right wing.
If you think offering refuge to children fleeing civil war is "virtue signaling" you are probably not in the best position to be judging what is right wing or not
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
No need to make any distinction between the ones that the Government is allowing to come and the ones that it isn't. Because the total from now on is going to be a shameful big round zero.
Actually not true. What the Government have said is they will take no more from the camps in France. But they also said they will keep their promise to take 3000 child refuges by taking them directly from the Syrian refugee camps which was Cameron's policy.
Whether they do actually do that remains to be seen but as a policy it is absolutely sound.
Can I signal that I'm fed up of the phrase virtue signaller?
Even though I have used the phrase virtue signalling more often than I care to admit, I can assure you that I'm not attempting to signal any virtue by signalling I'm fed of the overuse of virtue signalling.
I'm just fed up with the overuse of virtue signalling.
Yeh, me too. It's still a damn useful phrase though...
What's wrong with good old fashioned socially conservative hypocrisy?
Great comment in rebuttal of those Remain snobs who sneer that Brexit was won by the less educated:
"However, how much does a Cambridge professor understand about the effects of a factory closure due to emissions regulations emanating from the EU? Have they seen the devastation the resulting unemployment can cause? The people in the know might have the least education, but almost certainly have the most knowledge!"
This is very much what High Reliability Organisations (those that work in very dangerous, complex industries where accidents are highly consequential, but which nevertheless manage extraordinarily high level of safety and reliability) preach - the person who spots the problem, or who might have the solution to it, could be a nobody in organizational or education terms. So respect and listen to everybody.
Note however that the number of emissions regulations emanating from the EU which were not agreed to by the British Government is I believe zero. And the number that Briain will waive after withdrawal is almost certainly also close to zero. Even when I was in Parliament I was irritated by the tendency of Ministers to agree something in Brussels and then moan about it when it arrived as an EU regulation.
Since emissions standards were covered by QMV, would it have made any difference whether the UK agreed with them or not?
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
Not being a virtue signaller is different from being right wing.
If you think offering refuge to children fleeing civil war is "virtue signaling" you are probably not in the best position to be judging what is right wing or not
Certainly, but right now, taking in more unaccompanied children would mean crowding them into childrens' homes (at best) putting them out on the streets (at worst).
There's a factual issue which it seems urgent to clear up here. Some councils (e.g. Devon County Council) say they have offered to take more than their allocation but the offer has not been taken up. The Government says that the number they've agreed to take is the maximum that councils were willing to offer. Whatever one's view of the issue (unless one thinks that looking after refugee children is per se bad), we could do with knowing the facts.
If I might interject, it also worries me that we don't seem able to do at all well by any children without families. From what I understand, there's very little support for them once they reach 18 and are no longer children.
Add that to the difficulties unaccompanied refugee children are already facing and there is a source of serious concern.
Can I signal that I'm fed up of the phrase virtue signaller?
Even though I have used the phrase virtue signalling more often than I care to admit, I can assure you that I'm not attempting to signal any virtue by signalling I'm fed of the overuse of virtue signalling.
I'm just fed up with the overuse of virtue signalling.
Yeh, me too. It's still a damn useful phrase though...
What's wrong with good old fashioned socially conservative hypocrisy?
Because it's not limited to that political sphere, perhaps?
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
You are cementing your reputation as one of the lunatics howling from the sidelines. Of course the pendulum will swing. That's what they do. But it will be far too late to stop Brexit.
Br[itish ]exit will mean something entirely different in a couple of years' time. The howling lunatics failing to preserve the union are mostly Brexiteers.
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
Not being a virtue signaller is different from being right wing.
If you think offering refuge to children fleeing civil war is "virtue signaling" you are probably not in the best position to be judging what is right wing or not
Twist my words all you want, but how else do you account for Cooper and Sturgeon offering but not following through?
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
This is a big mistake people make. Brexit is a idea not a person. The reasons for it are wide and varied as the constituent believers of Brexit. You can't pin it down and say this is what Brexit is and what it beleives apart from the central exiting of the E.U. The pendulum won't swing back because we won't be re-joining the E.U anythime soon.
As for Trump he will be replaced within 4-8 years anyway.......politics is cyclical.
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
No need to make any distinction between the ones that the Government is allowing to come and the ones that it isn't. Because the total from now on is going to be a shameful big round zero.
Actually not true. What the Government have said is they will take no more from the camps in France. But they also said they will keep their promise to take 3000 child refuges by taking them directly from the Syrian refugee camps which was Cameron's policy.
Whether they do actually do that remains to be seen but as a policy it is absolutely sound.
Happy to hear that. I really hope that this actually happens. Another masterstroke from Dave. Like Arthur and Merlin he and George will rise again when Britain needs them most!!!!
Certainly, but right now, taking in more unaccompanied children would mean crowding them into childrens' homes (at best) putting them out on the streets (at worst).
There's a factual issue which it seems urgent to clear up here. Some councils (e.g. Devon County Council) say they have offered to take more than their allocation but the offer has not been taken up. The Government says that the number they've agreed to take is the maximum that councils were willing to offer. Whatever one's view of the issue (unless one thinks that looking after refugee children is per se bad), we could do with knowing the facts.
If I might interject, it also worries me that we don't seem able to do at all well by any children without families. From what I understand, there's very little support for them once they reach 18 and are no longer children.
Add that to the difficulties unaccompanied refugee children are already facing and there is a source of serious concern.
Good evening, everyone.
Agreed. Also worth noting that we in principle plan to deport all these children when they reach 18. There's an interesting comparison with the Kindertransporte - here, too, the intention was not to keep them in Britain, but they were intended to be trained to work in te then Empire, as farmers, administrators, etc.. At present, we seem to have no real plan except to look after them for as few years and then ship them back.
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
You are cementing your reputation as one of the lunatics howling from the sidelines. Of course the pendulum will swing. That's what they do. But it will be far too late to stop Brexit.
Br[itish ]exit will mean something entirely different in a couple of years' time. The howling lunatics failing to preserve the union are mostly Brexiteers.
"Should the UNITED KINGDOM remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
Can I signal that I'm fed up of the phrase virtue signaller?
Even though I have used the phrase virtue signalling more often than I care to admit, I can assure you that I'm not attempting to signal any virtue by signalling I'm fed of the overuse of virtue signalling.
I'm just fed up with the overuse of virtue signalling.
Yeh, me too. It's still a damn useful phrase though...
What's wrong with good old fashioned socially conservative hypocrisy?
Because it's not limited to that political sphere, perhaps?
You can't pin it down and say this is what Brexit is and what it beleives
Read Tezza's speech
She needs to deliver something concrete eventually.
It's true that " Brexit is a idea not a person. The reasons for it are wide and varied as the constituent believers of Brexit." which is why the pendulum will swing when Tezza disappoints most of them.
Since emissions standards were covered by QMV, would it have made any difference whether the UK agreed with them or not?
It depends on whether we could muster a majority for a different view or not. It's why I qualified my comment as I can't be sure there were no such cases. But I've never heard of one - so far as I know, Britain was in support of the emissions regulations every time.
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
You are cementing your reputation as one of the lunatics howling from the sidelines. Of course the pendulum will swing. That's what they do. But it will be far too late to stop Brexit.
Br[itish ]exit will mean something entirely different in a couple of years' time. The howling lunatics failing to preserve the union are mostly Brexiteers.
"Should the UNITED KINGDOM remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
Indeed. The United Kingdom will leave the political map of Europe for good. It will be sadly missed by a mournful band of Brexiteers.
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
You are cementing your reputation as one of the lunatics howling from the sidelines. Of course the pendulum will swing. That's what they do. But it will be far too late to stop Brexit.
Br[itish ]exit will mean something entirely different in a couple of years' time. The howling lunatics failing to preserve the union are mostly Brexiteers.
"Should the UNITED KINGDOM remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
Indeed. The United Kingdom will leave the political map of Europe for good. It will be sadly missed by a mournful band of Brexiteers.
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
You are cementing your reputation as one of the lunatics howling from the sidelines. Of course the pendulum will swing. That's what they do. But it will be far too late to stop Brexit.
Br[itish ]exit will mean something entirely different in a couple of years' time. The howling lunatics failing to preserve the union are mostly Brexiteers.
"Should the UNITED KINGDOM remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
Indeed. The United Kingdom will leave the political map of Europe for good. It will be sadly missed by a mournful band of Brexiteers.
Nope, we will just leave the artificial political construct that is the EU. We will remain part of the political map of Europe not least because they are relying on us to help keep them safe.
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
No need to make any distinction between the ones that the Government is allowing to come and the ones that it isn't. Because the total from now on is going to be a shameful big round zero.
Actually not true. What the Government have said is they will take no more from the camps in France. But they also said they will keep their promise to take 3000 child refuges by taking them directly from the Syrian refugee camps which was Cameron's policy.
Whether they do actually do that remains to be seen but as a policy it is absolutely sound.
Happy to hear that. I really hope that this actually happens. Another masterstroke from Dave. Like Arthur and Merlin he and George will rise again when Britain needs them most!!!!
Obviously I have a lot of problems with Dave but his handling of the refugee crisis was, from what I can see, pretty flawless. He had exactly the right answer to help protect the largest number of people and was willing to stand up to his critics at home to make sure we funded it as well. The UK and US were making massive contributions to funding Syrian refugee camps in Turkey long before the rest of Europe had even started to think about it.
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
You are cementing your reputation as one of the lunatics howling from the sidelines. Of course the pendulum will swing. That's what they do. But it will be far too late to stop Brexit.
Br[itish ]exit will mean something entirely different in a couple of years' time. The howling lunatics failing to preserve the union are mostly Brexiteers.
Which Union are you talking about? The European one or the British one?
Lib dem candidate for Copeland on bbc news... I'm a maths teacher and I've done the numbers labour has moved to the left the tories to the right.....
I feel nauseous
Tories should counter this balls meme of moving to the right. They're far less right wing than under Osborne.
No more child refugees? Yeah it's practically hug a hoodie all over again!
You mean the ones in France? A safe country. Those ones?
No need to make any distinction between the ones that the Government is allowing to come and the ones that it isn't. Because the total from now on is going to be a shameful big round zero.
Actually not true. What the Government have said is they will take no more from the camps in France. But they also said they will keep their promise to take 3000 child refuges by taking them directly from the Syrian refugee camps which was Cameron's policy.
Whether they do actually do that remains to be seen but as a policy it is absolutely sound.
Happy to hear that. I really hope that this actually happens. Another masterstroke from Dave. Like Arthur and Merlin he and George will rise again when Britain needs them most!!!!
Obviously I have a lot of problems with Dave but his handling of the refugee crisis was, from what I can see, pretty flawless. He had exactly the right answer to help protect the largest number of people and was willing to stand up to his critics at home to make sure we funded it as well. The UK and US were making massive contributions to funding Syrian refugee camps in Turkey long before the rest of Europe had even started to think about it.
Yeah I agree. Seems spot on. Was just messing. I'll never understand how someone constantly criticised as lacking in conviction ended up being skewered by something he probably didn't believe in or trust.
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
That's true but the trouble is when you've been caught out before either exaggerating or downright lying mud sticks. Surely you aren't that impressed with what you've seen so far from him?
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
I think it is reasonable to say that when someone has been caught being economical with the truth out as many times as Nuttall now has, the burden of proof might shift sides.
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
Hasn't he already proved he wasn't by firing his PR person?
As it stands, the worst crime that Nuttall has committed is to say he lost "close personal friends" when they were actually "people he knew vaguely". He denies that he used those words, but they did appear as quotes on his website, that's why the PR person was fired. He has always maintained he was at the ground, the original accusation was that he made that up.
But the reason it is an issue at all is because its UKIP obviously. The people throwing the dirt are the same people who would faint if anyone questioned if a self declared refugee really was fleeing from a bad situation. I doubt they would demand to see evidence if an elderly jew said they had been in a concentration camp either. Amazing double standards.
Brexit and Trump have emboldened a political fringe element who imagine "the people" share all their conspiracy theories. They will be in for a shock when the pendulum swings
You are cementing your reputation as one of the lunatics howling from the sidelines. Of course the pendulum will swing. That's what they do. But it will be far too late to stop Brexit.
Br[itish ]exit will mean something entirely different in a couple of years' time. The howling lunatics failing to preserve the union are mostly Brexiteers.
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
Hasn't he already proved he wasn't by firing his PR person?
As it stands, the worst crime that Nuttall has committed is to say he lost "close personal friends" when they were actually "people he knew vaguely". He has always maintained he was at the ground, the original accusation was that he made that up.
He said he was "a survivor of Hillsborough", which sort of implies he was there.
Edit: Fair enough, I thought the furore was about him not actually being there!
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Perhaps he wasn't there, I wouldn't know. Your link is the original stick that poked the hornets nest though, it is a few days old, before "close personal friends"-gate
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
Hasn't he already proved he wasn't by firing his PR person?
As it stands, the worst crime that Nuttall has committed is to say he lost "close personal friends" when they were actually "people he knew vaguely". He denies that he used those words, but they did appear as quotes on his website, that's why the PR person was fired. He has always maintained he was at the ground, the original accusation was that he made that up.
But the reason it is an issue at all is because its UKIP obviously. The people throwing the dirt are the same people who would faint if anyone questioned if a self declared refugee really was fleeing from a bad situation. I doubt they would demand to see evidence if an elderly jew said they had been in a concentration camp either. Amazing double standards.
The main reason it's an issue is because of the half truths and lies and unfortunate mistakes by assistants that appear to follow him.
The school she was visiting was in Bootle. It was built by a sea captain who came back from the Napoleonic wars and the locals helped him build it by carting the stone from local quarries to Bootle. It's rather a fine building. About 5 years ago the Council wanted to close it down and there was uproar at the posdible loss at one of the village amenities and it was saved.
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
That's true but the trouble is when you've been caught out before either exaggerating or downright lying mud sticks. Surely you aren't that impressed with what you've seen so far from him?
If it is proved that he wasn't at Hillsborough the day of the tragedy, then it's appalling from him and he should resign from politics. I would say if that was the case, he is probably mentally ill.
As for the other things, I can give him the benefit of the doubt. My Dad was a coach at West Ham academy for years.. was he a West Ham coach? Yes. Could some people get the wrong end of the stick and think he was boasting of being first team coach at West Ham? Probably
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Perhaps he wasn't there, I wouldn't know. Your link is the original stick that poked the hornets nest though, it is a few days old, before "close personal friends"-gate
Nuttalll has separately said that he watched it unfold from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane end (which was seated), and also that he was involved in the crush outside. He is clearly lying.
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Perhaps he wasn't there, I wouldn't know. Your link is the original stick that poked the hornets nest though, it is a few days old, before "close personal friends"-gate
Nuttalll has separately said that he watched it unfold from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane end (which was seated), and also that he was involved in the crush outside. He is clearly lying.
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Perhaps he wasn't there, I wouldn't know. Your link is the original stick that poked the hornets nest though, it is a few days old, before "close personal friends"-gate
Nuttalll has separately said that he watched it unfold from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane end (which was seated), and also that he was involved in the crush outside. He is clearly lying.
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Perhaps he wasn't there, I wouldn't know. Your link is the original stick that poked the hornets nest though, it is a few days old, before "close personal friends"-gate
Nuttalll has separately said that he watched it unfold from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane end (which was seated), and also that he was involved in the crush outside. He is clearly lying.
There is proof he is lying about being there?
There's proof that he's told multiple inconsistent versions so is at minimum an unreliable witness. When someone can't keep their story straight it's more likely that all of the versions are lies, than that only some of them are.
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
That's true but the trouble is when you've been caught out before either exaggerating or downright lying mud sticks. Surely you aren't that impressed with what you've seen so far from him?
If it is proved that he wasn't at Hillsborough the day of the tragedy, then it's appalling from him and he should resign from politics. I would say if that was the case, he is probably mentally ill.
As for the other things, I can give him the benefit of the doubt. My Dad was a coach at West Ham academy for years.. was he a West Ham coach? Yes. Could some people get the wrong end of the stick and think he was boasting of being first team coach at West Ham? Probably
People - especially youngsters - do tell themselves stories with no ill intent and without being mentally ill. It is quite possible for someone to take bits from what they hear of other people's experiences and end up honestly believing their story is true.
Can I signal that I'm fed up of the phrase virtue signaller?
Even though I have used the phrase virtue signalling more often than I care to admit, I can assure you that I'm not attempting to signal any virtue by signalling I'm fed of the overuse of virtue signalling.
I'm just fed up with the overuse of virtue signalling.
I think the phrase is a rubbish insult. But it can be handy when used seriously, for discussing a certain class of communication - just as likely to emanate from conservatives as liberals or socialists. Pretty much anybody of any political persuasion occasionally makes statement X, with the clear underlying intent of expressing "I am the kind of person who believes in things like X, which you also value, therefore you should like/trust/vote for me" rather than because X is itself important to them. If you don't call it "virtue signalling" you have to call it something else... and then whatever you call it instead will presumably also become a gratuitous insult. So I'll stick with virtue signalling.
("Signalling" is a perfectly respectable term of art in "economics", in evolutionary biology, psychology and so on. Hijacking it for use in flimsy insults seems rather a shame.)
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Perhaps he wasn't there, I wouldn't know. Your link is the original stick that poked the hornets nest though, it is a few days old, before "close personal friends"-gate
Nuttalll has separately said that he watched it unfold from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane end (which was seated), and also that he was involved in the crush outside. He is clearly lying.
There is proof he is lying about being there?
There's proof that he's told multiple inconsistent versions so is at minimum an unreliable witness. When someone can't keep their story straight it's more likely that all of the versions are lies, than that only some of them are.
There are more inconsistencies than the close friend/acquaintance thing?
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
That's true but the trouble is when you've been caught out before either exaggerating or downright lying mud sticks. Surely you aren't that impressed with what you've seen so far from him?
If it is proved that he wasn't at Hillsborough the day of the tragedy, then it's appalling from him and he should resign from politics. I would say if that was the case, he is probably mentally ill.
As for the other things, I can give him the benefit of the doubt. My Dad was a coach at West Ham academy for years.. was he a West Ham coach? Yes. Could some people get the wrong end of the stick and think he was boasting of being first team coach at West Ham? Probably
I was a passenger in a fatal train crash at that age or a bit younger. I remember cetain moments very vividly but my recollections are a bit muddled and contradictory and I suspect if you grilled me on it you might wonder whether I had really been there.
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
That's true but the trouble is when you've been caught out before either exaggerating or downright lying mud sticks. Surely you aren't that impressed with what you've seen so far from him?
If it is proved that he wasn't at Hillsborough the day of the tragedy, then it's appalling from him and he should resign from politics. I would say if that was the case, he is probably mentally ill.
As for the other things, I can give him the benefit of the doubt. My Dad was a coach at West Ham academy for years.. was he a West Ham coach? Yes. Could some people get the wrong end of the stick and think he was boasting of being first team coach at West Ham? Probably
Did he ever make a statement to the police ? As the enquiry team were asking for witnesses.Also if he was there with others it would be on film .
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Perhaps he wasn't there, I wouldn't know. Your link is the original stick that poked the hornets nest though, it is a few days old, before "close personal friends"-gate
Nuttalll has separately said that he watched it unfold from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane end (which was seated), and also that he was involved in the crush outside. He is clearly lying.
There is proof he is lying about being there?
There's proof that he's told multiple inconsistent versions so is at minimum an unreliable witness. When someone can't keep their story straight it's more likely that all of the versions are lies, than that only some of them are.
There are more inconsistencies than the close friend/acquaintance thing?
He's said, "I was involved in the crush outside," as well as, "from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End, I watched the events of that day unfold."
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Perhaps he wasn't there, I wouldn't know. Your link is the original stick that poked the hornets nest though, it is a few days old, before "close personal friends"-gate
Nuttalll has separately said that he watched it unfold from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane end (which was seated), and also that he was involved in the crush outside. He is clearly lying.
Have you ever been to the ground. I attended a cup semi final there a few years before and it was perfectly possible to be involved in the crush outside and access both the upper tier and terrace. It was a frightful experience with supporters being crushed in the standing area and being passed up to the upper tier. The crowd moved up and down the terracing in a very scary way and we all agreed that it was quite the most frightening experience we had had in following football throughout England grounds.
It was a tragegy waiting to happen
I think Nuttall is hopeless but you have no right to say he wasn't there (as a 12 year old) unless you can prove it
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
Perhaps he wasn't there, I wouldn't know. Your link is the original stick that poked the hornets nest though, it is a few days old, before "close personal friends"-gate
Nuttalll has separately said that he watched it unfold from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane end (which was seated), and also that he was involved in the crush outside. He is clearly lying.
There is proof he is lying about being there?
There's proof that he's told multiple inconsistent versions so is at minimum an unreliable witness. When someone can't keep their story straight it's more likely that all of the versions are lies, than that only some of them are.
There are more inconsistencies than the close friend/acquaintance thing?
He's said, "I was involved in the crush outside," as well as, "from the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End, I watched the events of that day unfold."
Those two are inconsistent? Wikipedia states there was a build-up of supporters between 2:30 and 2:40pm outside. It's possible he made his way in after this, but prior to the suspension of the match at 3:05pm.
I was a passenger in a fatal train crash at that age or a bit younger. I remember cetain moments very vividly but my recollections are a bit muddled and contradictory and I suspect if you grilled me on it you might wonder whether I had really been there.
There are some things from childhood it's probably best not to remember too much of.
Certain moments with some bits vivid and others a bit muddled reminded me very much of this extraordinary piece of TV (though he was a bit younger at the time, and rather more time had elapsed!)
Oh has it been proved he wasn't there? That is shocking
Has he produced any witness to say he was there?
Haha it isn't for him to prove he was, it is for people to prove he wasn't! Good Lord politics does bring out the worst in people
That's true but the trouble is when you've been caught out before either exaggerating or downright lying mud sticks. Surely you aren't that impressed with what you've seen so far from him?
If it is proved that he wasn't at Hillsborough the day of the tragedy, then it's appalling from him and he should resign from politics. I would say if that was the case, he is probably mentally ill.
As for the other things, I can give him the benefit of the doubt. My Dad was a coach at West Ham academy for years.. was he a West Ham coach? Yes. Could some people get the wrong end of the stick and think he was boasting of being first team coach at West Ham? Probably
A word of caution. The local widely read rag, the sentinel, has only carried one article about all of Walter Mitty and the donald trump tribute act goings on and it was overwhelmingly about the later.
Also the big scandal they are running is the story of another candidate (an independent) who has been arrested on hate crimes based on what is on their website.
Comments
Scotland is the lesson, but England shows little sign of learning.
If it's Labour supporters who live in metropolitan areas, it probably accounts for most of them.
"However, how much does a Cambridge professor understand about the effects of a factory closure due to emissions regulations emanating from the EU? Have they seen the devastation the resulting unemployment can cause? The people in the know might have the least education, but almost certainly have the most knowledge!"
This is very much what High Reliability Organisations (those that work in very dangerous, complex industries where accidents are highly consequential, but which nevertheless manage extraordinarily high level of safety and reliability) preach - the person who spots the problem, or who might have the solution to it, could be a nobody in organizational or education terms. So respect and listen to everybody.
Good article:
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/people-like-who-predicted-worst-12605839
Even though I have used the phrase virtue signalling more often than I care to admit, I can assure you that I'm not attempting to signal any virtue by signalling I'm fed of the overuse of virtue signalling.
I'm just fed up with the overuse of virtue signalling.
Presumably OGH meant instead to say that UKIP's odds had increased/eased/lengthened .....
Explains your avatar, no?
Probably.
Whether they do actually do that remains to be seen but as a policy it is absolutely sound.
Add that to the difficulties unaccompanied refugee children are already facing and there is a source of serious concern.
Good evening, everyone.
As for Trump he will be replaced within 4-8 years anyway.......politics is cyclical.
She needs to deliver something concrete eventually.
It's true that " Brexit is a idea not a person. The reasons for it are wide and varied as the constituent believers of Brexit." which is why the pendulum will swing when Tezza disappoints most of them.
Unionist 55%
Bravehearts 45%
Good luck with that...
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58a440bae4b094a129f0a953
Personally I am happy to see both dissolved.
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/02/councils-are-to-blame-for-the-failure-to-take-more-refugees.html#comments
Donald Trump declares war on his intelligence agencies over 'illegal' and 'un-American' leaks
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/15/donald-trump-slams-leaks-contact-russian-intelligence-ahead/
https://twitter.com/delbhoy007/status/831943240169426944
But the reason it is an issue at all is because its UKIP obviously. The people throwing the dirt are the same people who would faint if anyone questioned if a self declared refugee really was fleeing from a bad situation. I doubt they would demand to see evidence if an elderly jew said they had been in a concentration camp either. Amazing double standards.
Edit: Fair enough, I thought the furore was about him not actually being there!
Nuttall was 12 at the time of the disaster, and was a pupil at Savio high school in Bootle, Liverpool. One of his former teachers, a Roman Catholic priest, has told the Guardian that the school believed it had been aware of the identities of every boy who had been at Hillsborough in order to help them through a difficult period, and that Nuttall was not among them.
A fellow pupil at the school who says he has been a friend of Nuttall for decades said the Ukip leader had never mentioned being there. “I have been very good friends with Paul for over 25 years,” he said, adding that during that time they had “never spoken” about Hillsborough.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/10/ukip-leader-paul-nuttall-denies-lying-about-being-at-hillsborough-disaster
Good on Mrs May for going there.
As for the other things, I can give him the benefit of the doubt. My Dad was a coach at West Ham academy for years.. was he a West Ham coach? Yes. Could some people get the wrong end of the stick and think he was boasting of being first team coach at West Ham? Probably
("Signalling" is a perfectly respectable term of art in "economics", in evolutionary biology, psychology and so on. Hijacking it for use in flimsy insults seems rather a shame.)
It was a tragegy waiting to happen
I think Nuttall is hopeless but you have no right to say he wasn't there (as a 12 year old) unless you can prove it
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8217/production/_94630333_letter.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_iq5yzJ-Dk
Certain moments with some bits vivid and others a bit muddled reminded me very much of this extraordinary piece of TV (though he was a bit younger at the time, and rather more time had elapsed!)
Also the big scandal they are running is the story of another candidate (an independent) who has been arrested on hate crimes based on what is on their website.