I well remember the last story nobody cared about. It led to the closing of a newspaper, the end of a proposed multi-billion pound takeover, the emasculation of someone who had been one of the most pwerful media players in the world and a public enquiry.
"Labour for their instinctive wish to defend what is a massive achievement for human civilisation"
The NHS? Really? Up there with putting a man on the Moon?
Absolutely. Putting a man on the Moon has done absolutely nothing to improve anyone's standard of living; it was quite satisfying at the time, but in the absence of follow-through it's proved a technological dead end like Concorde.
Disagree, the Apollo project and the wider space industry (much interest and initial investment generated by putting a man on the moon) has had huge impacts in material science and electronics.
That @BenM made a joke about the iPhone and @NickPalmer has taken his point seriously has made my morning :^ )
A majority of the British public support controversial plans by the Government to introduce performance-related pay in schools, a new poll by Populus has found.
A total of 1,723 people were questioned, with 61% of people believing that schools should be free to set the pay of individual teachers based on the quality of their performance.
Just 480 people (28%) believe that two teachers in the same job with the same length of service should always receive the same salary regardless of their performance.
The Populus survey of over 1,723 people also asked what factors should determine what a teacher gets paid.
Forty three per cent said the quality of teaching should be determined by an annual appraisal process followed by twenty nine per cent who said it should be determined by exam results of students.
In contrast, just eight per cent of respondents believe that length of service is the most important factor and just seven per cent believe that ensuring parity with other teachers in the school should determine pay levels.
The Populus poll also found that over two thirds of the public (70%) do not support plans by the two largest teaching unions to hold strikes later this year to protest about pay and conditions.
A total of 36% said they did not support the strike action and a further 34% believe that teachers should be banned from striking like the Police as they provide an essential public service. Just 29% of respondents said they support plans for industrial action by the unions... http://www.populus.co.uk/News/Public-backs-performancerelated-pay-in-schools/
"The intervention of Sir Jeremy is critical. Neither he nor anyone from his office have spoken to Mr Crosby. The No10 machine is scrupulous about maintaining the separation between government and Tory party. Mr Crosby belongs to CCHQ, not No10. He does not see government papers or get involved in policy decisions. Some Tories wonder if it's the experience of life under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown that make Labour assume relationships are more corrupt."
"Labour for their instinctive wish to defend what is a massive achievement for human civilisation"
The NHS? Really? Up there with putting a man on the Moon?
Immigration - Alan Brooke is right that it's possible to control immigration from some countries even though not the EEA. But if the demand for foreign workers is there, they'll be drawn in from Bulgaria instead of Bangla Desh.
There are reasons why some employers choose foreign staff, ranging from the understandable ("they show initiative by coming to Britain", "I like their attitude and willingness to do messy jobs") to the dodgy ("I can get away with sub-minimum wage"). It'd be interesting to see a survey on it, even though it would no dfsoubt understate the dodgy part.
There is of course a cultural angle as well - some of us like seeing diverse foreigners around and some don't. There's also a strong dose of realism in it - I strongly suspect that 50 years from now it will seem surprising that anyone thought that any society could remian predominently monocultural.
Speedy recovery to Carola!
Well Nick I just plain disagree on your premise.
The first question should be why can't one of our own people to do it ? And I say that not from a nationalistic perspective but from the perspective of someone who think keeping 2 million people in under achieved lives is a national scandal. There is no benefit to anyone in leaving people with pointless lives, that's the true waste of national wealth.
Re the employers - fk 'em - if the employers can't train people and think it's somehow ok to leave the bill for an underclass for others to pay, we've got the wrong sort of employers. What use is it to uk plc and taxpayer to have tax avoiding multi nats like Starbucks employing immigrant labour selling us goods we've had to borrow money to pay for ? Fortunately I think most local employers are fairly reasonable and can see the problem, it's more a question of getting a consensus on how to get people back in to work and assisting employers to get new staff up to scratch. Doing that will have more of an effect the UK national accounts than throwing the doors open to allcomers.
"The Youth Contract was meant to get businesses to hire 53,000 people a year for three years. One year into the scheme, less than 5,000 young people have received any work – and less than 3,000 for at least six months.
But falling 92 per cent short of the Youth Contract target is really only symptomatic of Clegg’s earlier mistake. A roving brief as Deputy PM was meant to give him the maximum opportunity to pursue Lib Dem interests.
Instead he finds himself little more than a wrecking-ball: lacking a department of his own, his impact is mostly felt when he interferes in others."
@SouthamObserver And thereby you illustrate the problem. For decades after Watergate, every would-be Pulitzer Prize winner went looking for the smoking gun, convinced that there was something deeply corrupt going on and ignoring Occam's Razor.
Evidence that Lynton Crosby has influenced policy in any area at all? None. Still less any evidence that he has done so for commercial gain.
There is the minor detail, as the Prime Minister fairly pointed out, that Lynton Crosby was hired by the Conservative party (ie money flowed from the Conservatives to Lynton Crosby, not vice versa), making a conspiracy theory somewhat weak on grounds of causality. But I suppose it keeps some journalists busy.
I well remember the last story nobody cared about.
It led to a Labour Special Conference in Spring 2014, 12 months before the general election for a change "bigger than Clause IV and one member one vote combined".....but nothing to see here....move along.......
"Germany has a falling birth rate and isn't a basket case. "
And as night follows day.
(Reuters) - Ata Ucertas, a doctor from Istanbul with a moustache that curls up his cheeks, was welcomed with open arms when he came to Germany this year, evidence of a shift in German attitudes as its population shrinks and labor becomes scarce.
"The discussion about a welcome culture is part of the whole process of becoming a country for which migration is normal."
With joblessness near its lowest level since the reunification of East and West Germany in 1990, the country faces a shortage of 5.4 million skilled workers by 2025, despite attempts to mobilize women and older people.
Instead we have a pathetic posturing PM keeping out students (but bemoaning that pledge in private) and trying to play the hard man because he's pandering to UKIP. What a bloody national embarrassment.
Right tim, you post an article on how Germany controls immigration and takes people in when it has skill shortages, what's your point ? It's always done that and that's what I;m advocating for the UK. You also ignored the German census and forgot to mention that Germany has 1.5 million less immigrants than it thought it had. Germany is only now facing a major issue of immigration as southern europeans seek work in Germany since there's none back home. My money's on Merkel tightening up the criteria for migrants.
Not at all ill-informed - can you prove that the future effects of current obesity were built into those 2010 tables.
I'd imagine that all the actuarial projections for increased life expectancy are based on anecdote and your revelation that those in their 20's-50's now wont see 70 due to the number of pies sold in Morrisons will be proven right in the end.
There really is no hope
You are quite right - for once - there is no hope for you as you smear, sneer and lie when you lose an argument - you even do so when you are not arguing. It is not use quoting stats re babies born recently for people born 20-50 years ago and it is those people who will be retiring in the nearer future.
Do not bother to reply and I have work to do - something that is unknown to you - you should try it sometime- might make you see the real world.
Nigel Bennett @top1percentile First ascent of the Eiger North face on this day 24 July in 1938 taking 3 days. Now, the route has been soloed (no ropes) in 2hrs 47mins.
I don't think 'attacks' from either side is the way to go. Voters are sick of it. Some reasoned debate may go down better.
They might be sick of it but it's effective when done properly which is why it will continue. Reasoned debate is not possible in a mass democracy when most people are apathetic.
Maybe that apathy is in part a consequence of the lack of reasoned debate and tedious yeahbutting (such as we get on here from some).
That median net worth figure looks pretty good for GB, with us in sixth place. I suspect that much of the wealth is in the form of residential property.
We seem in the immigration thread today to be arguing about words like ‘wealth’ and ‘poorer’ or ‘richer’.
Some, lefties mostly, seem to use GDP as a measure. GDP is poor measure of anything much – but especially bad for measuring ‘wealth’. GDP / capita is slightly better but still sucks.
Wealth is really a measure of what you have. Assets minus liabilities. For individuals it translates to ‘net worth’. For countries the same. GDP is a measure of flow not stock. Wealth measures your balance sheet not your P&L.
Immigration may tend to push up GDP a bit. It will tend to push GDP/capita down a bit. It may also put a lot of pressure on public services and drive increases in the deficit.
To get a better debate we need to agree what we’re measuring. For a country I’d suggest debt adjusted growth per capita id a good measure of flow. For wealth I’d suggest median net worth (where actually the UK is looking quite good):
I well remember the last story nobody cared about.
It led to a Labour Special Conference in Spring 2014, 12 months before the general election for a change "bigger than Clause IV and one member one vote combined".....but nothing to see here....move along.......
It'll be interesting to see if younger generations do live shorter lives. Obviously that's bad in terms of, er, shorter lives, but it would also mean lower pension and health costs, as well as a lower rate of Alzheimer's [I know that can affect younger people but it's primarily the elderly who suffer directly, along with their families in an indirect way].
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
And surely it should be the job of HMG to wherever possible to foresee such demand and educate the population accordingly to meet it?
If HMG and its vast resources fails and employers need to import skills - that's a failure of HMG since clearly they didn't anticipate demand for skills or fostered a culture where they weren't valued.
And here we are today where unskilled work is rubbished, low skilled work is denigrated as McJobs [which is actually something that requires training in food hygiene, customer service etc] and you can get the equivalent salary of £34k a year sitting on your sofa.
The welfare system and the liberal hand-wringers have a lot to answer for.
I well remember the last story nobody cared about.
It led to a Labour Special Conference in Spring 2014, 12 months before the general election for a change "bigger than Clause IV and one member one vote combined".....but nothing to see here....move along.......
Sorry - I missed this - is this special conference confirmed ? And if so - this September's one will be a damper squib than normal.
I don't think 'attacks' from either side is the way to go. Voters are sick of it. Some reasoned debate may go down better.
They might be sick of it but it's effective when done properly which is why it will continue. Reasoned debate is not possible in a mass democracy when most people are apathetic.
Maybe that apathy is in part a consequence of the lack of reasoned debate and tedious yeahbutting (such as we get on here from some).
If we use voter turnout at the General Election as a proxy for voter engagement / apathy, then historically we have
Projecting life expectancy is much more difficult than one might imagine. What's happened in the past is a dangerous guide to what may happen in the future, and trends are capable of reversing, and doing so quite suddenly. Moreover, actuarial projections are based on the quality of the statistics available to them.
Current projections show that life expectancy is increasing rapidly. For years, actuaries have been taken by surprise, even when working on a prudent basis, by the extent of the continuing improvements in life expectancy.
There was recently an indication from the last census that the statistics may not tell the full story:
"The most obvious implication is that mortality rates for the population of England & Wales at ages above 90 will be higher than previously thought. This means that life expectancy at age 65 should be slightly lower.
A further implication of the apparent understatement of mortality rates at high ages is that the recent pace of improvement, in high age mortality rates, will have been over-stated."
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
there's also the issue no-one wishes to talk about which is what does this do to the donor nation ? While tim ponces about growing population the demographic hole left in Eastern Europe isn't without it's consequences. I suspect well end up sending them more money for their aging population as we've nicked enough of their young folk.
"The intervention of Sir Jeremy is critical. Neither he nor anyone from his office have spoken to Mr Crosby. The No10 machine is scrupulous about maintaining the separation between government and Tory party. Mr Crosby belongs to CCHQ, not No10. He does not see government papers or get involved in policy decisions. Some Tories wonder if it's the experience of life under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown that make Labour assume relationships are more corrupt."
Worth following Crick on twitter - if you want to see a journo being operated from behind by Labour HQ on how to dance on a pin head.
Mr. D, it was probably the widespread decline in positive news and rise in negative news (proportionally), as correctly identified by the rather despicable Alistair Campbell.
I don't think 'attacks' from either side is the way to go. Voters are sick of it. Some reasoned debate may go down better.
They might be sick of it but it's effective when done properly which is why it will continue. Reasoned debate is not possible in a mass democracy when most people are apathetic.
Maybe that apathy is in part a consequence of the lack of reasoned debate and tedious yeahbutting (such as we get on here from some).
Something clearly happened post 1992 that led to a disengagement between voters and politicians.
I don't think 'attacks' from either side is the way to go. Voters are sick of it. Some reasoned debate may go down better.
They might be sick of it but it's effective when done properly which is why it will continue. Reasoned debate is not possible in a mass democracy when most people are apathetic.
Maybe that apathy is in part a consequence of the lack of reasoned debate and tedious yeahbutting (such as we get on here from some).
If we use voter turnout at the General Election as a proxy for voter engagement / apathy, then historically we have
I well remember the last story nobody cared about.
It led to a Labour Special Conference in Spring 2014, 12 months before the general election for a change "bigger than Clause IV and one member one vote combined".....but nothing to see here....move along.......
Sorry - I missed this - is this special conference confirmed ? And if so - this September's one will be a damper squib than normal.
"Privately, key union figures are deeply sceptical about the plans and fear Miliband's team has not thought them through, including a new requirement that constituency Labour parties will be able to contact union political levy payers directly in their area."
I well remember the last story nobody cared about.
It led to a Labour Special Conference in Spring 2014, 12 months before the general election for a change "bigger than Clause IV and one member one vote combined".....but nothing to see here....move along.......
Sorry - I missed this - is this special conference confirmed ? And if so - this September's one will be a damper squib than normal.
"Privately, key union figures are deeply sceptical about the plans and fear Miliband's team has not thought them through, including a new requirement that constituency Labour parties will be able to contact union political levy payers directly in their area."
Milliband not thought them through?? But, but Neil said that couldn't possibly be the case yesterday
The first question should be why can't one of our own people to do it ? And I say that not from a nationalistic perspective but from the perspective of someone who think keeping 2 million people in under achieved lives is a national scandal. There is no benefit to anyone in leaving people with pointless lives, that's the true waste of national wealth.
Re the employers - fk 'em - if the employers can't train people and think it's somehow ok to leave the bill for an underclass for others to pay, we've got the wrong sort of employers. What use is it to uk plc and taxpayer to have tax avoiding multi nats like Starbucks employing immigrant labour selling us goods we've had to borrow money to pay for ? Fortunately I think most local employers are fairly reasonable and can see the problem, it's more a question of getting a consensus on how to get people back in to work and assisting employers to get new staff up to scratch. Doing that will have more of an effect the UK national accounts than throwing the doors open to allcomers.
Employer attitudes are clearly part of the issue, but IMO it's a mistake to assume that most employers are thick or evil - they simply do what seems best for their businesses. I've said the same to leftists who pick on Amazon etc. - to be Marxist for a moment, the fault is in the economic environment that we create, not in the wickedness of individual firms.
Other things being equal, it simply must be best to employ Brits who speak the language perfectly and are utterly at home in the surroundings. So why don't they? A lack of qualified applicants who don't have some off-putting feature in their CVs, such as a criminal record or a lack of school exams.
It is possible and desirable to tackle this, but it takes a massive effort by the State - not just fiddling with the benefits system to create an incentive but providing intensive advice, training and subsidised starter jobs.Individual employers just don't have the time for this sort of thing, though they will happily take the successes that result.
Labour is looking at doing something like this. The Government doesn't seem interested.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
there's also the issue no-one wishes to talk about which is what does this do to the donor nation ? While tim ponces about growing population the demographic hole left in Eastern Europe isn't without it's consequences. I suspect well end up sending them more money for their aging population as we've nicked enough of their young folk.
"When questioned on how teachers’ pay should be decided, 61 per cent of those polled said they agreed that ‘schools should be able to set the pay of individual teachers based on the quality of their performance as determined by an annual appraisal’, as opposed to 28 per cent who believe teachers should receive the same amount, based on time served and not performance.
"When questioned on how teachers’ pay should be decided, 61 per cent of those polled said they agreed that ‘schools should be able to set the pay of individual teachers based on the quality of their performance as determined by an annual appraisal’, as opposed to 28 per cent who believe teachers should receive the same amount, based on time served and not performance."
" On the upcoming strike action, over two thirds said they did not support the plans to strike — including a third who believed teachers should be banned from striking (like the Police) as they provide an essential public service."
"The intervention of Sir Jeremy is critical. Neither he nor anyone from his office have spoken to Mr Crosby. The No10 machine is scrupulous about maintaining the separation between government and Tory party. Mr Crosby belongs to CCHQ, not No10. He does not see government papers or get involved in policy decisions. Some Tories wonder if it's the experience of life under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown that make Labour assume relationships are more corrupt."
Worth following Crick on twitter - if you want to see a journo being operated from behind by Labour HQ on how to dance on a pin head.
Mr Crick is desperately flogging a dead horse - he's been peddling the line 'what did Crosby get in bonuses from Philip Morris for this change in policy?!??!'
I mean really. It's pathetic. I wish the bit of C4 that was publicly owned was sold off. It represents a very strange demographic who are ultra PC, lefty and love shows that demean its own viewers with crap like Embarrassing Bodies or I Have 5st Testicles or whatever.
It's like the worst form of cable tv and run by Guardian readers on Spring Break.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
there's also the issue no-one wishes to talk about which is what does this do to the donor nation ? While tim ponces about growing population the demographic hole left in Eastern Europe isn't without it's consequences. I suspect well end up sending them more money for their aging population as we've nicked enough of their young folk.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
there's also the issue no-one wishes to talk about which is what does this do to the donor nation ? While tim ponces about growing population the demographic hole left in Eastern Europe isn't without it's consequences. I suspect well end up sending them more money for their aging population as we've nicked enough of their young folk.
I somehow doubt it tim, not in any meaningful sense.
migrants go to places where there is good economic potential. There are a host of other places migrants will go to before Poland.
As for your single market diversion tim keep trying, maybe you could explain why the UK isn't substantially wealthier after its buggest influx of migrants ?
Is it uncontrolled mass migration doesn't actually make us wealthier ? Or is it that it does, but the benefits were wiped out by Labour's disastrous economic management ?
Mr. D, it was probably the widespread decline in positive news and rise in negative news (proportionally), as correctly identified by the rather despicable Alistair Campbell.
That was a fascinating stat at the time. I was just thinking about it earlier whilst brushing my teeth. The radio was a constant stream of carping and moaning and knocking, so I switched it off.
Someone with better Google Fu will find his article about the decline in positive news output.
I well remember the last story nobody cared about.
It led to a Labour Special Conference in Spring 2014, 12 months before the general election for a change "bigger than Clause IV and one member one vote combined".....but nothing to see here....move along.......
Sorry - I missed this - is this special conference confirmed ? And if so - this September's one will be a damper squib than normal.
"Privately, key union figures are deeply sceptical about the plans and fear Miliband's team has not thought them through, including a new requirement that constituency Labour parties will be able to contact union political levy payers directly in their area."
I have seen it many times in A and E. People in pain, and anxious relatives are prone to outbursts of verbal and physical violence.
Learning to assess the threat, and to defuse threatening situations is a fairly core skill in this sort of environment. We have training in my Trust in this sort of personal safety issue. Often it works so well that an unsought apology appears by the end of the consultation.
It is one part of the reason that A and E staff burnout so easily though.
NHS anecdote klaxon: been in hospital for a few days after a spectacular fall from a window sill (kind of) down a stairwell - sober btw. (I've had to have my collarbone rebuilt, pretty much, but they thought I was a car crash victim when I was taken in so lucky really. Great start to the holidays...)
Anyway, I spent the first night in A&E. Security had to be called four times during the night to drunks and the disturbed... threats, violence, exposure, racial abuse of staff etc. How staff stayed so calm and patient and reasonable is beyond me. I'd have decked a few people.
Sadly they couldn't sedate me until the baby hoo-haa had die down
That sounds really nasty - hope you recover soon.
You touch upon an important point about violence in hospitals and doctors. There is far too much of it, and the causes must be multiple. But I do wonder if, like alcohol, pain can bring out an aggressive instinct in some people.
Anecdote alert: a member of my family is a nurse in a specialised field. One morning she had to deal with an emergency with someone she knew well, and she described as being a very nice person in normal circumstances. What she was faced with was a swearing and angry young woman who tried to fight the people treating her, despite bleeding profusely. She was stone-cold sober, and utterly apologetic when she was stitched up and safely in hospital afterwards.
employers to get new staff up to scratch. Doing that will have more of an effect the UK national accounts than throwing the doors open to allcomers.
Labour is looking at doing something like this. The Government doesn't seem interested.
I don't assume Uk employers are evil, but they do take the easy way out. I'd say the biggest difference I notice between the UK and say France or Germany in employer attitudes is that UK guys have lost the sense of putting something back in to their community and that being in their own long term interest. Which ever way you look at it we have a chunk of the population which is benefit dependent and has diminished lives since they don't get to work and fill their potential. Employers have to do their bit, as do the employees as does the govt. The biggest starting point has to be in schools where our education system continues to work its way down international ranking.
"the Office for Budget Responsibility showed last week, we will need more, not fewer immigrants, if we are to cope with the challenge of an ageing population and the resultant increase in the national debt. Should Britain maintain net migration of around 140,000 a year (a level significantly higher than the government's target of 'tens of thousands'), debt will rise to 99 per cent of GDP by 2062-63. But should it reduce net migration to zero, debt will surge to 174 per cent. As the OBR concluded, "[There is] clear evidence that, since migrants tend to be more concentrated in the working-age group relatively to the rest of the population, immigration has a positive effect on the public sector’s debt…higher levels of net inward migration are projected to reduce public sector net debt as a share of GDP over the long term relative to the levels it would otherwise reach."
One would expect a fiscal conservative like Cameron to act on such advice but, as so often in recent times, the PM is determined to put politics before policy. Britain and its public services will be all the poorer for it. "..
The debate about immigration is misconceived. What needs to be tackled are the low educational skills of far too many Britons and to put in place social systems that make it worthwhile for people to work. It is scandalous that many on relatively low pay see a poorer return from their earned income than top rate tax payers, after the impact on benefits is taken into account.
It's much harder work educating those who are less able or actively resistant to being educated than to import immigrants, but it's essential. If we treat immigration as methadone for the underlying problems with the British workforce, it's important that we don't just get hooked on a high dosage without seeking to do something about the underlying vice.
It would be good to have a national debate about the appropriate number of people outside the workforce. While the optimal number is not zero, it has to be lower than what we currently have.
A lot of police training time is devoted to defusing aggressive situations. That's why a plod will go down on his hunkers to talk to you when stopped. It's a basic way to stop *reflective* behaviour where we naturally square up to each other.
It's weird to work in an office when colleagues will kneel on the floor when you're in a chair to deliver bad news about a budget meeting.
It took me a week or two to twig what was going on - its very peculiar but certainly very effective as pro-actively supine. Excessive courtesy also plays its part as a control mechanism.
I think the A&E staff could learn a lot from the Plod about dealing with aggressive types - including how to give them a dead arm or leg when required.
I have seen it many times in A and E. People in pain, and anxious relatives are prone to outbursts of verbal and physical violence.
Learning to assess the threat, and to defuse threatening situations is a fairly core skill in this sort of environment. We have training in my Trust in this sort of personal safety issue. Often it works so well that an unsought apology appears by the end of the consultation.
It is one part of the reason that A and E staff burnout so easily though.
employers to get new staff up to scratch. Doing that will have more of an effect the UK national accounts than throwing the doors open to allcomers.
Labour is looking at doing something like this. The Government doesn't seem interested.
I don't assume Uk employers are evil, but they do take the easy way out. I'd say the biggest difference I notice between the UK and say France or Germany in employer attitudes is that UK guys have lost the sense of putting something back in to their community and that being in their own long term interest. Which ever way you look at it we have a chunk of the population which is benefit dependent and has diminished lives since they don't get to work and fill their potential. Employers have to do their bit, as do the employees as does the govt. The biggest starting point has to be in schools where our education system continues to work its way down international ranking.
If you look at the international rankings of our schools compared to most of the rest of Europe we are at the same level. I'd say it's much more about corporate and government culture, and social attitudes. What is true, though, is that our education system has yet to properly adapt to a world in which you can no longer turf kids out of schools at 15/16 and put them in mines, factories, shipyards, steel mills etc. Neither has the work-place adapted to the undounted skill-sets that so many young people now have. Our corporate, political and institutional elites are all mainly run by people who grew up in the analogue age. It is very rare to find a 16-year old who is not completely at home with the digitised world. Even someone who leaves school with no GCSEs can do stuff with computers, social media and the rest of it that 40 year olds with PhDs would struggle with.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
Hmm I'm not sure how highly skilled 'fruit picking' is...
But if it's a minimum wage job, then why can't unemployed UK citizens do it? That's really the ultimate question. I know the old adage is 'they don't want to', but if you do have someone with no qualifications and no skills, then really minimum wage should be a option.
I can vouch for the excellent skills of Philipino nurses.
I suspect that Turkish Doctors are also pretty handy, whether in Germany or the UK.
These are however arguments in favour of skilled selective migration rather than the unskilled mass migration that is the concern.
If we are looking at the demographic challenge of an ageing population (though delayed retirement of fit elderly workers is a perfectly reasonable alternative) then we need immigrants with high workforce participation such as the Phillopinos. We do not need to add to the non working population and it is noticeable that there is low workforce participation from some migrant groups, with particularly low female workforce participation.
It is all about control, and the UK deciding who to give migration permits to, rather than the open door policy that was permitted under Labour.
The conundrum in countries like India and most African nations is that millions are deprived of basic healthcare, while many thousands of nurses remain unemployed. The Philippines educates many times more nurses than job opportunities exist; still many Filipinos do not have access to quality nursing care. It is an unfortunate fact of life that the need for nurses far exceeds the demand, especially in the developing world. However, without international nurse migration, the result would be highly skilled nurses living in their home countries, unable to put their skills to use to support themselves, their families, or their country’s economy.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
A lot of police training time is devoted to defusing aggressive situations. That's why a plod will go down on his hunkers to talk to you when stopped. It's a basic way to stop *reflective* behaviour where we naturally square up to each other.
It's weird to work in an office when colleagues will kneel on the floor when you're in a chair to deliver bad news about a budget meeting.
It took me a week or two to twig what was going on - its very peculiar but certainly very effective as pro-actively supine. Excessive courtesy also plays its part as a control mechanism.
I think the A&E staff could learn a lot from the Plod about dealing with aggressive types - including how to give them a dead arm or leg when required.
I have seen it many times in A and E. People in pain, and anxious relatives are prone to outbursts of verbal and physical violence.
Learning to assess the threat, and to defuse threatening situations is a fairly core skill in this sort of environment. We have training in my Trust in this sort of personal safety issue. Often it works so well that an unsought apology appears by the end of the consultation.
It is one part of the reason that A and E staff burnout so easily though.
That's great news. I didn't appreciate how much thinking had gone into policing psychology until I'd lived it.
It has many drawbacks as well when used against anyone who doesn't follow the party line. I was subjected to immense intimidation by my own colleagues and saw others experiencing the same. It's a very coercive environment to work in - but its also great fun and gossipy.
A lot of police training time is devoted to defusing aggressive situations. That's why a plod will go down on his hunkers to talk to you when stopped. It's a basic way to stop *reflective* behaviour where we naturally square up to each other.
It's weird to work in an office when colleagues will kneel on the floor when you're in a chair to deliver bad news about a budget meeting.
It took me a week or two to twig what was going on - its very peculiar but certainly very effective as pro-actively supine. Excessive courtesy also plays its part as a control mechanism.
I think the A&E staff could learn a lot from the Plod about dealing with aggressive types - including how to give them a dead arm or leg when required.
I have seen it many times in A and E. People in pain, and anxious relatives are prone to outbursts of verbal and physical violence.
Learning to assess the threat, and to defuse threatening situations is a fairly core skill in this sort of environment. We have training in my Trust in this sort of personal safety issue. Often it works so well that an unsought apology appears by the end of the consultation.
It is one part of the reason that A and E staff burnout so easily though.
because Norfolk people don't want to do this kind of job. At least they didn't. The economic crisis may have changed something but low skilled immigrants often do without qualification jobs native people don't want to do anymore (because they have higher aspirations).
That's why in Southern Italy seasonal fruit/tomatos picking jobs are mainly done by African immigrants, often threated like they were still in Gone with the Wind era.
Or the "badante" phenomenon in Italy. You don't have it but here the solution for families with old people is hiring a woman to live with your old grandparents to take care of them all day and night. The majority of people doing this kind of job were women from Ukraine, Moldova and Romania.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
because Norfolk people don't want to do this kind of job. At least they didn't. The economic crisis may have changed something but low skilled immigrants often do without qualification jobs native people don't want to do anymore (because they have higher aspirations).
That's why in Southern Italy seasonal fruit/tomatos picking jobs are mainly done by African immigrants, often threated like they were still in Gone with the Wind era.
Or the "badante" phenomenon in Italy. You don't have it but here the solution for families with old people is hiring a woman to live with your old grandparents to take care of them all day and night. The majority of people doing this kind of job were women from Ukraine, Moldova and Romania.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
employers to get new staff up to scratch. Doing that will have more of an effect the UK national accounts than throwing the doors open to allcomers.
Labour is looking at doing something like this. The Government doesn't seem interested.
If you look at the international rankings of our schools compared to most of the rest of Europe we are at the same level. I'd say it's much more about corporate and government culture, and social attitudes. What is true, though, is that our education system has yet to properly adapt to a world in which you can no longer turf kids out of schools at 15/16 and put them in mines, factories, shipyards, steel mills etc. Neither has the work-place adapted to the undounted skill-sets that so many young people now have. Our corporate, political and institutional elites are all mainly run by people who grew up in the analogue age. It is very rare to find a 16-year old who is not completely at home with the digitised world. Even someone who leaves school with no GCSEs can do stuff with computers, social media and the rest of it that 40 year olds with PhDs would struggle with.
I'm afraid the UK has been steadily working its way down the PISA ranking since they were first published. Where the problem comes is more in the bottom quartile rather than the top, but I agree with you that on gizmos our kids still display a level of skill which shows intelligence gone to waste rather than no ability. The question really is how can we harness this and put it to productive use. I tend to take the approach that as a society we should be encouraging everyone to step up a rung on the work ladder to make space for those to get on the first step. Currrently employers, HMG and schools just aren't doing this and uncontrolled immigration is our way of hiding the problem.
because Norfolk people don't want to do this kind of job. At least they didn't. The economic crisis may have changed something but low skilled immigrants often do without qualification jobs native people don't want to do anymore (because they have higher aspirations).
That's why in Southern Italy seasonal fruit/tomatos picking jobs are mainly done by African immigrants, often threated like they were still in Gone with the Wind era.
Or the "badante" phenomenon in Italy. You don't have it but here the solution for families with old people is hiring a woman to live with your old grandparents to take care of them all day and night. The majority of people doing this kind of job were women from Ukraine, Moldova and Romania.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
We have a minimum wage. We have people with little to no skills or qualifications. So why do have 'higher aspirations' than minimum wage work if they are incapable or unable of anything else?
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
Not another of your pin-head posts, please. If you want to make a point, make it and cite your evidence. It's very dreary reading otherwise.
Most largely rural counties are experiencing the same issue - address that issue as it's a real and present one.
"What is true, though, is that our education system has yet to properly adapt to a world in which you can no longer turf kids out of schools at 15/16 and put them in mines, factories, shipyards, steel mills etc."
But they can work in the care sector - surely that's better than working down a mine or in a biscuit factory on the production line [the occupation of Carole in the Liverbirds].
That working with the elderly or infirm is seen as demeaning speaks volumes. A friend of mine has a hubbie with very serious MS - he's becoming incontinent and I offered to help to take the load of her shoulders for a little while. She refused because it may embarrass him as he knew me before it got so far - and he'd prefer me to remember his former self.
But I offered as I cared - and frankly cat or dog or human litter trays - its all the same thing.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
Low I'd imagine.
Lets do some basic maths with a Tory MP in a nearby county
"As local Tory MP Mark Simmonds pointed out earlier this year, there are about 1,300 unemployed people in Boston: "If we got rid of 10,000 migrants, who would do the work?"
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
Not another of your pin-head posts, please. If you want to make a point, make it and cite your evidence. It's very dreary reading otherwise.
Most largely rural counties are experiencing the same issue - address that issue as it's a real and present one.
If there is not a sufficient supply of labour in Norfolk then those offering work will look elsewhere for the people they need. Portuguese or eastern Euroepan workers are an attractive option because they come in temporarily, do not bring families, can be housed in cheap, temporary accommodaitn and have relatively low living expenses. If farmers etc paid higher wages then they might be able to compete with other employers for local workers, or they may be able to attract Brits from other parts of the UK. But for that to happen the farmers would need to charge more, which means we would all have to pay more for what we get at the supermarkets.
If you want to see that as dancing on a pinhead, so be it. To me that looks like you ignoring a plain fact of business life because you do not want your comfortable assumptions challenged.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
Low I'd imagine.
Lets do some basic maths with a Tory MP in a nearby county
"As local Tory MP Mark Simmonds pointed out earlier this year, there are about 1,300 unemployed people in Boston: "If we got rid of 10,000 migrants, who would do the work?"
No buses run from here to Boston I'm afraid. I doubt any would run from Lisbon either. One would have to make several changes, I think, along the way.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
Low I'd imagine.
Lets do some basic maths with a Tory MP in a nearby county
"As local Tory MP Mark Simmonds pointed out earlier this year, there are about 1,300 unemployed people in Boston: "If we got rid of 10,000 migrants, who would do the work?"
This may pre-date your PBness - but I blame toothpaste.
Leaving aside the comment as it's not totally in English, the imagines explain it all. Italian bosses pay them 5 euroes for around 300-500kg of tomatoes but they have to give 1.5 euro to the "black boss" who recruited them. So they take 3.5 for 300-500 kg (660-1100 lbs).
This isn't about residents of Norfolk - it's that those who live in the UK and speak our own language turn their noses up at unskilled jobs that for example Portuguese speakers don't - and travel here for the privilege.
You could live in Staffordshire and travel fewer miles for a job than someone from Portugal and speak the same language. Where is the logic in this?
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
Not another of your pin-head posts, please. If you want to make a point, make it and cite your evidence. It's very dreary reading otherwise.
Most largely rural counties are experiencing the same issue - address that issue as it's a real and present one.
If there is not a sufficient supply of labour in Norfolk then those offering work will look elsewhere for the people they need. Portuguese or eastern Euroepan workers are an attractive option because they come in temporarily, do not bring families, can be housed in cheap, temporary accommodaitn and have relatively low living expenses. If farmers etc paid higher wages then they might be able to compete with other employers for local workers, or they may be able to attract Brits from other parts of the UK. But for that to happen the farmers would need to charge more, which means we would all have to pay more for what we get at the supermarkets.
If you want to see that as dancing on a pinhead, so be it. To me that looks like you ignoring a plain fact of business life because you do not want your comfortable assumptions challenged.
The PISA rankings show the UK to be pretty much performing to European standards - certainly in comparison to other big European economies. Yes, we have been slipping down them, but that's not because standards are slipping - PISA does not show that - but because they are not improving as quickly as they are elsewhere (at least with regard to the ability to pass PISA-related exams), and because when PISA began a lot of the countries that are now included were not in them. Having spent quite a bit of time in several of the highly-ranked Asian PISA countries - Singapore and China, for example - I'd also question what the point of being at the top of the rankings is if you end up with a population which is really good at passing exams, but not that hot at working alone, being pro-active, taking responsibility etc.
The PISA rankings show the UK to be pretty much performing to European standards - certainly in comparison to other big European economies. Yes, we have been slipping down them, but that's not because standards are slipping - PISA does not show that - but because they are not improving as quickly as they are elsewhere (at least with regard to the ability to pass PISA-related exams), and because when PISA began a lot of the countries that are now included were not in them. Having spent quite a bit of time in several of the highly-ranked Asian PISA countries - Singapore and China, for example - I'd also question what the point of being at the top of the rankings is if you end up with a population which is really good at passing exams, but not that hot at working alone, being pro-active, taking responsibility etc.
Or the "badante" phenomenon in Italy. You don't have it but here the solution for families with old people is hiring a woman to live with your old grandparents to take care of them all day and night. The majority of people doing this kind of job were women from Ukraine, Moldova and Romania.
We do have something similar in the UK, with live-in carers supplied by agencies such as Consultus and 'Country Cousins'. The arrangement can work very well in the right circumstances. The carers come from a variety of countries, but especially South Africa and Zimbabwe. There are even some English ones.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
Low I'd imagine.
Lets do some basic maths with a Tory MP in a nearby county
"As local Tory MP Mark Simmonds pointed out earlier this year, there are about 1,300 unemployed people in Boston: "If we got rid of 10,000 migrants, who would do the work?"
Thats where a shortage of affordable housing in rural areas is such a problem.
A British person in their mid twenties made unemployed over the last five years is much more likely to have a partner and a child, an immigrant from Portugal much more likely to be single. The single person is more easily accommodated in a shared house or lodgings. The same goes for much of the hotel industry in rural areas where young families are forced to move miles away du to lack of housing and a hotel will employ some people from Eastern Europe.
The affordable housing shortage in this country screws up many things, mobility of labour is one of them
And, of course, some are proposing limiting housing benefit payments to those over 25. Quite how that will encourage people to move around the UK looking for work is beyond me.
What I love about PB is that when desperate some posters resort to a bingo card of insults that claim all contrary views are stupid, no-nothing-about-politics blah blah.
Everytime I see one like this - I know a nerve has been touched.
And, of course, some are proposing limiting housing benefit payments to those over 25. Quite how that will encourage people to move around the UK looking for work is beyond me.
Presumably in much the same way as it encourages Poles to move across Europe looking for work.
Leaving aside the comment as it's not totally in English, the imagines explain it all. Italian bosses pay them 5 euroes for around 300-500kg of tomatoes but they have to give 1.5 euro to the "black boss" who recruited them. So they take 3.5 for 300-500 kg (660-1100 lbs).
I hope conditions in Norfolk are a bit better.
I doubt they are, we've had several scandals on gang master behaviour across several industries in the UK.
A pretty feeble excuse. There are plenty of NEETs in the country without families who could easily benefit from some hard work in the sunshine of East Anglia.
While the immediate skills are not transferrable to work in the cities the work ethic and healthy outdoir lifestyle would do some couch potatoes a world of good.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
Low I'd imagine.
Lets do some basic maths with a Tory MP in a nearby county
"As local Tory MP Mark Simmonds pointed out earlier this year, there are about 1,300 unemployed people in Boston: "If we got rid of 10,000 migrants, who would do the work?"
Thats where a shortage of affordable housing in rural areas is such a problem.
A British person in their mid twenties made unemployed over the last five years is much more likely to have a partner and a child, an immigrant from Portugal much more likely to be single. The single person is more easily accommodated in a shared house or lodgings. The same goes for much of the hotel industry in rural areas where young families are forced to move miles away du to lack of housing and a hotel will employ some people from Eastern Europe.
The affordable housing shortage in this country screws up many things, mobility of labour is one of them
The PISA rankings show the UK to be pretty much performing to European standards - certainly in comparison to other big European economies. Yes, we have been slipping down them, but that's not because standards are slipping - PISA does not show that - but because they are not improving as quickly as they are elsewhere (at least with regard to the ability to pass PISA-related exams), and because when PISA began a lot of the countries that are now included were not in them. Having spent quite a bit of time in several of the highly-ranked Asian PISA countries - Singapore and China, for example - I'd also question what the point of being at the top of the rankings is if you end up with a population which is really good at passing exams, but not that hot at working alone, being pro-active, taking responsibility etc.
we can muck the figures about any way we wish to avoid upsetting ourselves, but the fact remains by an objective measure we are getting left behind. Whether Asian automatons work who can say, but you keep telling me China Japan and others log loads more patents than we ever do and that this is significant.
So they end up with the boring kids who work and we get the creative ones who can't spell or add, it's not really a competition we're going to win, at least not on the economic fundamentals.
And, of course, some are proposing limiting housing benefit payments to those over 25. Quite how that will encourage people to move around the UK looking for work is beyond me.
Presumably in much the same way as it encourages Poles to move across Europe looking for work.
That's probably more about wage differentials. Minimum wage in the UK is a very good salary in Poland. Living in low-cost, poor-quality accommodation in the UK or Germany for a year or so while doing a minimum wage job allows you to build up a nice little nest egg to return home with.
There's quite a lot of agreement on this thread (skipping plato's oddly grumpy "pin-head" comment to SO, surely one of our more thoughtful contributors). some more thoughts:
1. The benefits system is as antifrank implies excessively targeted, producing a much greater marginal tax rate for people entering work than the very rich. It used to be up to 100%, and thanks to working tax credit is now no more than 80-90%, but that's still too high. Universal Credit might help, if it works.
2. Willingness to do unpleasant work is an issue. I've done daily care stuff for someone bedridden - most of us will do it for someone we care about, but doing it as a profession would be daunting. Unless we solve point 1, can we realistically expect to get people to do it for a 10-20% improvement in income? Or to set off from Birmingham to pick fruit in Norfolk, with no idea about whether there's really regular work or where to live or even what fruit picking is like? A farm worker in Romania who's willing to take a chance and come to Britain for it may really be a better bet for a Norfolk employer.
3. Ability to do care work decently is an issue. If I was bedridden, I'd possibly rather have one of the old ladies from Romania that andrea describes look after me than some young tough with a criminal record who's doing it because he's been forced off benefits. I'm not generalising and plenty of unemployed people don't fit that category, but you can't just make everyone care workers and hope for a good outcome.
4. Education is an issue, but arguably not the main one. If we think of the jobs that we immediately associate with the problem, they are fruit-picking and social care, neither of which are deemed to require many formal qualifications (though for social care perhaps we should aim higher than we do), plus maybe building labour. There may be people who object to foreign doctors and nurses, but I don't think it's seen as the main problem. But SO is right that we have a chunk of people who aren't trained to do the sort of skilled work in demand, and aren't motivated to do the unskilled work because of points 1 and 2.
There was an excellent documentary on C4 where a dozen unemployed who described themselves as 'desperate for work' were given the opportunity to pick asparagus.
IIRC - on day one 3/12 didn't turn up, another 3 left during the day and the next day another 3 didn't show as they had a bad back or whatever.
On Day 3 the remaining 3 moaned about how hard it was and that they'd be better off on the dole. Their Eastern EU worker colleagues were earning much more on the piece rate system as they were driven and were very glad for the work.
A pretty feeble excuse. There are plenty of NEETs in the country without families who could easily benefit from some hard work in the sunshine of East Anglia.
While the immediate skills are not transferrable to work in the cities the work ethic and healthy outdoir lifestyle would do some couch potatoes a world of good.
And, of course, some are proposing limiting housing benefit payments to those over 25. Quite how that will encourage people to move around the UK looking for work is beyond me.
Presumably in much the same way as it encourages Poles to move across Europe looking for work.
That's probably more about wage differentials. Minimum wage in the UK is a very good salary in Poland. Living in low-cost, poor-quality accommodation in the UK or Germany for a year or so while doing a minimum wage job allows you to build up a nice little nest egg to return home with.
yes, which is why I say the push for a "living wage" just hasn't been thought through. We'll just end up with a bigger housing shortage.
"UK rejects meningitis B vaccine Syringe NEW" 2nd most read story on BBC website. Could get tricky for the Gov't when a front page story springs up of Meningitis B death.
Not good for the Gov't, negatively affects message on NHS and 'family'. However the Royal Baby should help bury the news lessening the impact somewhat.
The PISA rankings show the UK to be pretty much performing to European standards - certainly in comparison to other big European economies. Yes, we have been slipping down them, but that's not because standards are slipping - PISA does not show that - but because they are not improving as quickly as they are elsewhere (at least with regard to the ability to pass PISA-related exams), and because when PISA began a lot of the countries that are now included were not in them. Having spent quite a bit of time in several of the highly-ranked Asian PISA countries - Singapore and China, for example - I'd also question what the point of being at the top of the rankings is if you end up with a population which is really good at passing exams, but not that hot at working alone, being pro-active, taking responsibility etc.
we can muck the figures about any way we wish to avoid upsetting ourselves, but the fact remains by an objective measure we are getting left behind. Whether Asian automatons work who can say, but you keep telling me China Japan and others log loads more patents than we ever do and that this is significant.
So they end up with the boring kids who work and we get the creative ones who can't spell or add, it's not really a competition we're going to win, at least not on the economic fundamentals.
Nope, patent numbers are an irrelevance; it's the quality of the patents that matters.
The whole point is that PISA is not an objective measure of anything except the ability of kids to pass PISA-related exams. That should not be the goal of any education system worth its salt. Doing well in such exams should, at best, be a welcome by-product (see Finland, rather than China or Singapore).
Thanks Richard. Yes, live in carers...I didn't know the right term in English. Here they used to come from Philippines (but it was more for live in maids...."la filippina" actually becomes a commen colloquial term for the maid) and South America in the 90s. They fit well also because of cultural reasons as they were Catholic countries. And some agencies bringing them there were Church associated. Now they are more from East Europe countries. They tend to bypass the agency now with the family directly acting as employer.
. Having spent quite a bit of time in several of the highly-ranked Asian PISA countries - Singapore and China, for example - I'd also question what the point of being at the top of the rankings is...
Singapore GDP per capita: $46,241
UK GDP per capita: $38,974
Chinese GDP growth 2012: 7.8%
UK GDP growth 2012: 0.2%
The PB Left: always good for a laugh, bless them.
The Singapore health system might be worth a good look at. It is apparently difficult to reproduce elsewhere, but it is very cost effective and is highly ranked internationally. WIth enough political will it should be possible. I think 2015 is lost, and real NHS reform is going to go with the wind - The smartest move would have been to have had maybe Danny Alexander or Nick CLegg himself even to take the NHS hospital pass and implement real change without Lansley.
. Having spent quite a bit of time in several of the highly-ranked Asian PISA countries - Singapore and China, for example - I'd also question what the point of being at the top of the rankings is...
Singapore GDP per capita: $46,241
UK GDP per capita: $38,974
Chinese GDP growth 2012: 7.8%
UK GDP growth 2012: 0.2%
The PB Left: always good for a laugh, bless them.
Not sure what any of that has to do with PISA rankings. Perhaps you can explain.
Plenty of single unemployed Brits who are not parents or on housing benefit because they live with their parents.
Are you suggesting that they should rot on the dole in the cities until Labours magic money tree produces jobs next door to their house or a house in the asparagus fields of Norfolk?
Plenty of Poles started off in the fields or on hotel reception night shifts and are now moving into more senior positions. Quite right too.
When the under 25's housing benefit thing was discussed this stat emerged
According to figures from the Department for Work and Pensions, currently 380,000 people under 25 claim housing benefit across the UK. Many of these people work, others are looking for work, sick or disabled. More than half are parents bringing up children.
The prime minister said that instead of claiming housing benefit, under-25s should move back in with their parents
Now surely you can see why a shortage of affordable housing in areas with work would impact more on British people in this age group than single immigrants.
Plenty of single unemployed Brits who are not parents or on housing benefit because they live with their parents.
Are you suggesting that they should rot on the dole in the cities until Labours magic money tree produces jobs next door to their house or a house in the asparagus fields of Norfolk?
Plenty of Poles started off in the fields or on hotel reception night shifts and are now moving into more senior positions. Quite right too.
When the under 25's housing benefit thing was discussed this stat emerged
According to figures from the Department for Work and Pensions, currently 380,000 people under 25 claim housing benefit across the UK. Many of these people work, others are looking for work, sick or disabled. More than half are parents bringing up children.
The prime minister said that instead of claiming housing benefit, under-25s should move back in with their parents
Now surely you can see why a shortage of affordable housing in areas with work would impact more on British people in this age group than single immigrants.
I don't have data for UK. But I can give some Italian data. In 2011, Poles working in Italy (as employee) have an average post tax income of 11,910 euroes. In Poland on average 1.2 people should work to reach that income level.
It's not actually bad.
The average income for Romanian employees in Italy was 12,417 and in Romania they needed 2 workers to reach that level.
In Moldova they need on average 8 employees to reach the income earned by a Moldovian working in Italy. It's 6 for Morocco and Philippines. 4.something for Ukraine and Albania.
And, of course, some are proposing limiting housing benefit payments to those over 25. Quite how that will encourage people to move around the UK looking for work is beyond me.
Presumably in much the same way as it encourages Poles to move across Europe looking for work.
That's probably more about wage differentials. Minimum wage in the UK is a very good salary in Poland.
So they end up with the boring kids who work and we get the creative ones who can't spell or add, it's not really a competition we're going to win, at least not on the economic fundamentals.
Nope, patent numbers are an irrelevance; it's the quality of the patents that matters.
The whole point is that PISA is not an objective measure of anything except the ability of kids to pass PISA-related exams. That should not be the goal of any education system worth its salt. Doing well in such exams should, at best, be a welcome by-product (see Finland, rather than China or Singapore).
well I'll take your point on patents, though I note Germans are pretty good a logging patents too for commercial advantage.
However if you don't like PISA then consider that circa 20% of our workforce is functionally illiterate and that helps no-one, least of all those caught in the net. And the problem hasn't exactly got better since the days of Bob Hoskins and On The Move.
"The Labour leader’s announcement that he’s snipping the financial umbilical cord binding him to the trade unions has divided Westminster opinion. Some view it as a bold play that will fundamentally alter the shape and character of his party. Others merely see an attempt to buy Labour some time amidst the Falkirk maelstrom – the political equivalent of Stuart Broad fiddling with his boot during that last day at Trent Bridge.
There’s no doubt many shadow cabinet members regard it as a significant intervention. One Blairite shadow cabinet source mocked comparisons with a ‘Clause 4 Moment’ but recognised, “The reforms themselves are good. The language isn’t great, but they are not bad as a first step, especially given the balance on the NEC [Labour’s executive]”. Another thought it represented a major announcement, but expressed concerns about implementation. “It’s big. The question is, how clear is Ed’s strategy for pushing this through?”
One thing is certain, if the decision effectively to announce the ending of the Labour trade union affiliation was Miliband’s idea of a clever PR ruse he needs to get himself better PR advice. The block affiliation of a union’s members is seen as a fundamental part of the quasi-sacred Labour/union link. Indeed current GMB general secretary Paul Kenny claimed Miliband’s plan was “as close as you can get” to ending that historic relationship. Having a tactical battle with the unions to help re-define Ed Miliband’s leadership may seem logical. But Miliband and his team will have to be careful they’re not biting off more of Len McCluskey than they can chew..." http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/384447/cutting-the-cord-is-milibandand39s-gamble-a-gamble-at-all.thtml
I find the tension between OGH and Mr Hodges most instructive.
I and all my brothers used to work on the land though the summer holidays, via the gang system. Speaking to my nephew recently (in Boston), he's a university student and looking for holiday work, I asked him he hadn't tried it.
His reply ... "I don't speak Lithuanian or Polish."
NP's right in that a student, unused to the work, will be a less attractive proposition to a farmer than an immigrant from Eastern Europe.
UK Trade & Investment (UKTI) released its 2012-13 "Inward Investment Annual Report" today. The figures in the release show that the the UK has continued to strengthen its position as the leading European destination for foreign direct investment.
The report shows that in the last financial year:
• the UK saw 1,559 investment projects secured – 11% more projects than the number recorded during the previous year;
• these projects are estimated to have brought with them 170,000 jobs – 51% higher than in the previous year. Of these, nearly 60,000 were new jobs and 110,000 existing jobs were safeguarded
• UKTI and its partners were involved in delivering nearly 85% of the projects secured
The annual report also shows that the recorded increases are spread throughout the UK. Wales and Northern Ireland in particular have recorded significant increases in investment projects – 191% and 41% respectively – while Scotland registered a 16% increase in the number of investments. The number of FDI projects landing in England (excluding London) increased by 10% reaching 759 projects.
A triumph for Vince and the BIS here. Notable is the regional spread of projects; the proactive role taken by the BIS agency UKTI; and, the net job creation resulting from the investments.
And in case there is any timfoolery about this being a piece of government self-advertisement there is plenty of third party endorsement for the findings:
• United Nations Council for Trade and Development (UNCTAD) report of June 2013 reported the FDI flow into the UK increasing by 22% against a global decrease of 18% and a decrease in the EU [?] of 41%
• Ernst and Young reported the UK as the no 1 destination in Europe (679 projects)
• Financial Times reported the UK as the number 1 destination in Europe (829 projects)
Time for the Coalition government to turn its reforming zeal to the NHS. As we all know, success breeds success.
Have a good day, and I hope Ed M is reading. He has a plan to give a job to all long term unemployed, perhaps even picking potatoes in Lincolnshire. I hope he does.
UK Trade & Investment (UKTI) released its 2012-13 "Inward Investment Annual Report" today. The figures in the release show that the the UK has continued to strengthen its position as the leading European destination for foreign direct investment.
The report shows that in the last financial year:
• the UK saw 1,559 investment projects secured – 11% more projects than the number recorded during the previous year;
• these projects are estimated to have brought with them 170,000 jobs – 51% higher than in the previous year. Of these, nearly 60,000 were new jobs and 110,000 existing jobs were safeguarded
• UKTI and its partners were involved in delivering nearly 85% of the projects secured
The annual report also shows that the recorded increases are spread throughout the UK. Wales and Northern Ireland in particular have recorded significant increases in investment projects – 191% and 41% respectively – while Scotland registered a 16% increase in the number of investments. The number of FDI projects landing in England (excluding London) increased by 10% reaching 759 projects.
A triumph for Vince and the BIS here. Notable is the regional spread of iprojects, the proactive role taken by the BIS agency UKTI and the job creation resulting from the investment.
And in case there is any timfoolery about this being a piece of government self-advertisement there is plenty of third party endorsement for the findings:
• United Nations Council for Trade and Development (UNCTAD) report of June 2013 reported the FDI flow into the UK increasing by 22% against a global decrease of 18% and a decrease in the UK of 41%
• Ernst and Young reported the UK as the no 1 destination in Europe (679 projects)
• Financial Times reported the UK as the number 1 destination in Europe (829 projects)
Time for the Coalition government to turn its reforming zeal to the NHS. As we all know, success breeds success.
why's that good news ? Do these companies pay their taxes ? Are they fulfilling roles which other companies wouldn;t just do anyway ? Are they employing locals or importing labour ?
tractor stats Mr Pole, just like Brown. Nice to know but does it tell us anything ?
I don't think 'attacks' from either side is the way to go. Voters are sick of it. Some reasoned debate may go down better.
They might be sick of it but it's effective when done properly which is why it will continue. Reasoned debate is not possible in a mass democracy when most people are apathetic.
Maybe that apathy is in part a consequence of the lack of reasoned debate and tedious yeahbutting (such as we get on here from some).
If we use voter turnout at the General Election as a proxy for voter engagement / apathy, then historically we have
Something clearly happened post 1992 that led to a disengagement between voters and politicians.
My opinion is that post 1992 the differences between the two main parties have narrowed considerably, and so the extent to which the election represents a choice between alternatives has decreased. Consequently some people will not vote because they believe it does not matter, and this has also lead to a growth in voting for other parties and candidates.
In 2001 and 2005 there has also been the sense that the election was a foregone conclusion, which exaggerated the decline.
Another possible effect is the greater awareness - of the electorate, media and party organisations - of the marginal constituencies where it actually matters that people vote. This has lead to a large increase in tactical voting, but it probably also explains some of the reduction in voter turnout, for those voters who live in safe seats.
One word of warning, though, with more people attending university, an increase in private renting, second-home ownership and rising levels of family breakup, there is likely to be an increase in the number of people who are registered to vote at more than one address. For example, for the 2001 election I was registered to vote at three addresses - University, Mum and Dad - in three different constituencies. Since I voted only once, my failure to vote in the other two constituencies would have artificially depressed turnout in those constituencies.
"Coming ahead of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Paul Dacre and Nick Clegg in GQ’s list, the Guido pair have proven themselves a force to be reckoned with.
Some may suggest Cole was lucky to land such a unique job and not need to pass any journalism exams, but his track-record for breaking stories is there for all to see.
According to the blog, its unique monthly users figure now stands at more than 500,000, up more than 50 per cent year on year.
I have come to think that the government should not provide unemployment benefits, but should instead guarantee everyone a full-time job at minimum wage. Picking fruit in the countryside would probably be one of the areas which would benefit from this government supplied labour.
One of the bonuses of such a policy is that it would make enforcement of the minimum wage a lot easier if everyone knew they could get a minimum wage job working for the country, and so this policy could also help to increase wages for the low-paid, as employers currently paying minimum wage would have to compete more strongly to attract labour.
A pretty feeble excuse. There are plenty of NEETs in the country without families who could easily benefit from some hard work in the sunshine of East Anglia.
While the immediate skills are not transferrable to work in the cities the work ethic and healthy outdoir lifestyle would do some couch potatoes a world of good.
There's never ever a problem with immigration if its the 'right sort' of immigrants..
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
Like immigrants taking up seasonal fruit picking jobs? Plenty of demand, and immigrants fill it.
And damned by your words.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
What's the long-term unemployment rate in Norfolk?
Low I'd imagine.
Lets do some basic maths with a Tory MP in a nearby county
"As local Tory MP Mark Simmonds pointed out earlier this year, there are about 1,300 unemployed people in Boston: "If we got rid of 10,000 migrants, who would do the work?"
Thats where a shortage of affordable housing in rural areas is such a problem.
Comments
@statisticsONS
Female life expectancy at birth also highest in East Dorset (86.4 years), lowest in Manchester (79.3 years) bit.ly/1bZsPCM #ons
I blame Evil Tories.
A total of 1,723 people were questioned, with 61% of people believing that schools should be free to set the pay of individual teachers based on the quality of their performance.
Just 480 people (28%) believe that two teachers in the same job with the same length of service should always receive the same salary regardless of their performance.
The Populus survey of over 1,723 people also asked what factors should determine what a teacher gets paid.
Forty three per cent said the quality of teaching should be determined by an annual appraisal process followed by twenty nine per cent who said it should be determined by exam results of students.
In contrast, just eight per cent of respondents believe that length of service is the most important factor and just seven per cent believe that ensuring parity with other teachers in the school should determine pay levels.
The Populus poll also found that over two thirds of the public (70%) do not support plans by the two largest teaching unions to hold strikes later this year to protest about pay and conditions.
A total of 36% said they did not support the strike action and a further 34% believe that teachers should be banned from striking like the Police as they provide an essential public service. Just 29% of respondents said they support plans for industrial action by the unions... http://www.populus.co.uk/News/Public-backs-performancerelated-pay-in-schools/
The first question should be why can't one of our own people to do it ? And I say that not from a nationalistic perspective but from the perspective of someone who think keeping 2 million people in under achieved lives is a national scandal. There is no benefit to anyone in leaving people with pointless lives, that's the true waste of national wealth.
Re the employers - fk 'em - if the employers can't train people and think it's somehow ok to leave the bill for an underclass for others to pay, we've got the wrong sort of employers. What use is it to uk plc and taxpayer to have tax avoiding multi nats like Starbucks employing immigrant labour selling us goods we've had to borrow money to pay for ? Fortunately I think most local employers are fairly reasonable and can see the problem, it's more a question of getting a consensus on how to get people back in to work and assisting employers to get new staff up to scratch. Doing that will have more of an effect the UK national accounts than throwing the doors open to allcomers.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timwigmore/100227764/cleggs-youth-jobs-plan-flops-more-proof-that-he-took-the-wrong-job-when-the-coalition-was-formed/
"The Youth Contract was meant to get businesses to hire 53,000 people a year for three years. One year into the scheme, less than 5,000 young people have received any work – and less than 3,000 for at least six months.
But falling 92 per cent short of the Youth Contract target is really only symptomatic of Clegg’s earlier mistake. A roving brief as Deputy PM was meant to give him the maximum opportunity to pursue Lib Dem interests.
Instead he finds himself little more than a wrecking-ball: lacking a department of his own, his impact is mostly felt when he interferes in others."
Evidence that Lynton Crosby has influenced policy in any area at all? None. Still less any evidence that he has done so for commercial gain.
There is the minor detail, as the Prime Minister fairly pointed out, that Lynton Crosby was hired by the Conservative party (ie money flowed from the Conservatives to Lynton Crosby, not vice versa), making a conspiracy theory somewhat weak on grounds of causality. But I suppose it keeps some journalists busy.
This one is positively Nero-esque.
https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/359746621535313920/photo/1
Right tim, you post an article on how Germany controls immigration and takes people in when it has skill shortages, what's your point ? It's always done that and that's what I;m advocating for the UK. You also ignored the German census and forgot to mention that Germany has 1.5 million less immigrants than it thought it had. Germany is only now facing a major issue of immigration as southern europeans seek work in Germany since there's none back home. My money's on Merkel tightening up the criteria for migrants.
Do not bother to reply and I have work to do - something that is unknown to you - you should try it sometime- might make you see the real world.
Nigel Bennett @top1percentile
First ascent of the Eiger North face on this day 24 July in 1938 taking 3 days. Now, the route has been soloed (no ropes) in 2hrs 47mins.
(ie the highly skilled ones which can walk into jobs, and which there is a demand for).
If HMG and its vast resources fails and employers need to import skills - that's a failure of HMG since clearly they didn't anticipate demand for skills or fostered a culture where they weren't valued.
And here we are today where unskilled work is rubbished, low skilled work is denigrated as McJobs [which is actually something that requires training in food hygiene, customer service etc] and you can get the equivalent salary of £34k a year sitting on your sofa.
The welfare system and the liberal hand-wringers have a lot to answer for.
Sorry - I missed this - is this special conference confirmed ? And if so - this September's one will be a damper squib than normal.
If we use voter turnout at the General Election as a proxy for voter engagement / apathy, then historically we have
1970 - 72%
1974 - 78.8%
1979 - 76%
1983 - 72.7%
1987 - 75%
1992% - 78%
1997 - 71%
2001 - 59%
2005 - 61%
2010 - 65%
Something clearly happened post 1992 that led to a disengagement between voters and politicians.
Current projections show that life expectancy is increasing rapidly. For years, actuaries have been taken by surprise, even when working on a prudent basis, by the extent of the continuing improvements in life expectancy.
There was recently an indication from the last census that the statistics may not tell the full story:
http://www.theactuary.com/features/2012/11/longevity-and-our-missing-90-year-olds/
"The most obvious implication is that mortality rates for the population of England & Wales at ages above 90 will be higher than previously thought. This means that life expectancy at age 65 should be slightly lower.
A further implication of the apparent understatement of mortality rates at high ages is that the recent pace of improvement, in high age mortality rates, will have been over-stated."
here's Poland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Poland
When Mrs T had a huge one, it didn't alter the % much - but Blair's did.
Why was that? Surely Labour were as unelectable when she was PM as Hague/IDS was when Blair was in power?
"Privately, key union figures are deeply sceptical about the plans and fear Miliband's team has not thought them through, including a new requirement that constituency Labour parties will be able to contact union political levy payers directly in their area."
The first question should be why can't one of our own people to do it ? And I say that not from a nationalistic perspective but from the perspective of someone who think keeping 2 million people in under achieved lives is a national scandal. There is no benefit to anyone in leaving people with pointless lives, that's the true waste of national wealth.
Re the employers - fk 'em - if the employers can't train people and think it's somehow ok to leave the bill for an underclass for others to pay, we've got the wrong sort of employers. What use is it to uk plc and taxpayer to have tax avoiding multi nats like Starbucks employing immigrant labour selling us goods we've had to borrow money to pay for ? Fortunately I think most local employers are fairly reasonable and can see the problem, it's more a question of getting a consensus on how to get people back in to work and assisting employers to get new staff up to scratch. Doing that will have more of an effect the UK national accounts than throwing the doors open to allcomers.
Employer attitudes are clearly part of the issue, but IMO it's a mistake to assume that most employers are thick or evil - they simply do what seems best for their businesses. I've said the same to leftists who pick on Amazon etc. - to be Marxist for a moment, the fault is in the economic environment that we create, not in the wickedness of individual firms.
Other things being equal, it simply must be best to employ Brits who speak the language perfectly and are utterly at home in the surroundings. So why don't they? A lack of qualified applicants who don't have some off-putting feature in their CVs, such as a criminal record or a lack of school exams.
It is possible and desirable to tackle this, but it takes a massive effort by the State - not just fiddling with the benefits system to create an incentive but providing intensive advice, training and subsidised starter jobs.Individual employers just don't have the time for this sort of thing, though they will happily take the successes that result.
Labour is looking at doing something like this. The Government doesn't seem interested.
It's a pernicious cycle.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/sebastian-payne/2013/07/here-come-the-teaching-unions-and-the-public-is-once-again-on-side-with-michael-gove/
"When questioned on how teachers’ pay should be decided, 61 per cent of those polled said they agreed that ‘schools should be able to set the pay of individual teachers based on the quality of their performance as determined by an annual appraisal’, as opposed to 28 per cent who believe teachers should receive the same amount, based on time served and not performance.
"When questioned on how teachers’ pay should be decided, 61 per cent of those polled said they agreed that ‘schools should be able to set the pay of individual teachers based on the quality of their performance as determined by an annual appraisal’, as opposed to 28 per cent who believe teachers should receive the same amount, based on time served and not performance."
" On the upcoming strike action, over two thirds said they did not support the plans to strike — including a third who believed teachers should be banned from striking (like the Police) as they provide an essential public service."
I mean really. It's pathetic. I wish the bit of C4 that was publicly owned was sold off. It represents a very strange demographic who are ultra PC, lefty and love shows that demean its own viewers with crap like Embarrassing Bodies or I Have 5st Testicles or whatever.
It's like the worst form of cable tv and run by Guardian readers on Spring Break.
migrants go to places where there is good economic potential. There are a host of other places migrants will go to before Poland.
As for your single market diversion tim keep trying, maybe you could explain why the UK isn't substantially wealthier after its buggest influx of migrants ?
Is it uncontrolled mass migration doesn't actually make us wealthier ? Or is it that it does, but the benefits were wiped out by Labour's disastrous economic management ?
Someone with better Google Fu will find his article about the decline in positive news output.
Learning to assess the threat, and to defuse threatening situations is a fairly core skill in this sort of environment. We have training in my Trust in this sort of personal safety issue. Often it works so well that an unsought apology appears by the end of the consultation.
It is one part of the reason that A and E staff burnout so easily though.
Labour is looking at doing something like this. The Government doesn't seem interested.
I don't assume Uk employers are evil, but they do take the easy way out. I'd say the biggest difference I notice between the UK and say France or Germany in employer attitudes is that UK guys have lost the sense of putting something back in to their community and that being in their own long term interest. Which ever way you look at it we have a chunk of the population which is benefit dependent and has diminished lives since they don't get to work and fill their potential. Employers have to do their bit, as do the employees as does the govt. The biggest starting point has to be in schools where our education system continues to work its way down international ranking.
"the Office for Budget Responsibility showed last week, we will need more, not fewer immigrants, if we are to cope with the challenge of an ageing population and the resultant increase in the national debt. Should Britain maintain net migration of around 140,000 a year (a level significantly higher than the government's target of 'tens of thousands'), debt will rise to 99 per cent of GDP by 2062-63. But should it reduce net migration to zero, debt will surge to 174 per cent. As the OBR concluded, "[There is] clear evidence that, since migrants tend to be more concentrated in the working-age group relatively to the rest of the population, immigration has a positive effect on the public sector’s debt…higher levels of net inward migration are projected to reduce public sector net debt as a share of GDP over the long term relative to the levels it would otherwise reach."
One would expect a fiscal conservative like Cameron to act on such advice but, as so often in recent times, the PM is determined to put politics before policy. Britain and its public services will be all the poorer for it. "..
Link http://goo.gl/OvgmX6
It's much harder work educating those who are less able or actively resistant to being educated than to import immigrants, but it's essential. If we treat immigration as methadone for the underlying problems with the British workforce, it's important that we don't just get hooked on a high dosage without seeking to do something about the underlying vice.
It would be good to have a national debate about the appropriate number of people outside the workforce. While the optimal number is not zero, it has to be lower than what we currently have.
It's weird to work in an office when colleagues will kneel on the floor when you're in a chair to deliver bad news about a budget meeting.
It took me a week or two to twig what was going on - its very peculiar but certainly very effective as pro-actively supine. Excessive courtesy also plays its part as a control mechanism.
I think the A&E staff could learn a lot from the Plod about dealing with aggressive types - including how to give them a dead arm or leg when required.
If you look at the international rankings of our schools compared to most of the rest of Europe we are at the same level. I'd say it's much more about corporate and government culture, and social attitudes. What is true, though, is that our education system has yet to properly adapt to a world in which you can no longer turf kids out of schools at 15/16 and put them in mines, factories, shipyards, steel mills etc. Neither has the work-place adapted to the undounted skill-sets that so many young people now have. Our corporate, political and institutional elites are all mainly run by people who grew up in the analogue age. It is very rare to find a 16-year old who is not completely at home with the digitised world. Even someone who leaves school with no GCSEs can do stuff with computers, social media and the rest of it that 40 year olds with PhDs would struggle with.
But if it's a minimum wage job, then why can't unemployed UK citizens do it? That's really the ultimate question. I know the old adage is 'they don't want to', but if you do have someone with no qualifications and no skills, then really minimum wage should be a option.
I can vouch for the excellent skills of Philipino nurses.
I suspect that Turkish Doctors are also pretty handy, whether in Germany or the UK.
These are however arguments in favour of skilled selective migration rather than the unskilled mass migration that is the concern.
If we are looking at the demographic challenge of an ageing population (though delayed retirement of fit elderly workers is a perfectly reasonable alternative) then we need immigrants with high workforce participation such as the Phillopinos. We do not need to add to the non working population and it is noticeable that there is low workforce participation from some migrant groups, with particularly low female workforce participation.
It is all about control, and the UK deciding who to give migration permits to, rather than the open door policy that was permitted under Labour.
Why are Portuguese nationals travelling hundreds of miles to pluck turkeys or spuds or asparagus in Norfolk whilst the native population watches TV instead?
Reflective behaviour and politeness are all part of it.
It has many drawbacks as well when used against anyone who doesn't follow the party line. I was subjected to immense intimidation by my own colleagues and saw others experiencing the same. It's a very coercive environment to work in - but its also great fun and gossipy.
Rough with the smooth as they say.
The economic crisis may have changed something but low skilled immigrants often do without qualification jobs native people don't want to do anymore (because they have higher aspirations).
That's why in Southern Italy seasonal fruit/tomatos picking jobs are mainly done by African immigrants, often threated like they were still in Gone with the Wind era.
Or the "badante" phenomenon in Italy. You don't have it but here the solution for families with old people is hiring a woman to live with your old grandparents to take care of them all day and night. The majority of people doing this kind of job were women from Ukraine, Moldova and Romania.
I can only assume that culturally things have changed - and not always for the better.
I'm afraid the UK has been steadily working its way down the PISA ranking since they were first published. Where the problem comes is more in the bottom quartile rather than the top, but I agree with you that on gizmos our kids still display a level of skill which shows intelligence gone to waste rather than no ability. The question really is how can we harness this and put it to productive use. I tend to take the approach that as a society we should be encouraging everyone to step up a rung on the work ladder to make space for those to get on the first step. Currrently employers, HMG and schools just aren't doing this and uncontrolled immigration is our way of hiding the problem.
Most largely rural counties are experiencing the same issue - address that issue as it's a real and present one.
"What is true, though, is that our education system has yet to properly adapt to a world in which you can no longer turf kids out of schools at 15/16 and put them in mines, factories, shipyards, steel mills etc."
But they can work in the care sector - surely that's better than working down a mine or in a biscuit factory on the production line [the occupation of Carole in the Liverbirds].
That working with the elderly or infirm is seen as demeaning speaks volumes. A friend of mine has a hubbie with very serious MS - he's becoming incontinent and I offered to help to take the load of her shoulders for a little while. She refused because it may embarrass him as he knew me before it got so far - and he'd prefer me to remember his former self.
But I offered as I cared - and frankly cat or dog or human litter trays - its all the same thing.
If you want to see that as dancing on a pinhead, so be it. To me that looks like you ignoring a plain fact of business life because you do not want your comfortable assumptions challenged.
That's how the tomatos pickers live in Southern Italy
http://inchieste.repubblica.it/it/repubblica/rep-it/2013/06/03/news/reportage_radio_black-59970318/
Leaving aside the comment as it's not totally in English, the imagines explain it all. Italian bosses pay them 5 euroes for around 300-500kg of tomatoes but they have to give 1.5 euro to the "black boss" who recruited them. So they take 3.5 for 300-500 kg (660-1100 lbs).
I hope conditions in Norfolk are a bit better.
You could live in Staffordshire and travel fewer miles for a job than someone from Portugal and speak the same language. Where is the logic in this?
The PISA rankings show the UK to be pretty much performing to European standards - certainly in comparison to other big European economies. Yes, we have been slipping down them, but that's not because standards are slipping - PISA does not show that - but because they are not improving as quickly as they are elsewhere (at least with regard to the ability to pass PISA-related exams), and because when PISA began a lot of the countries that are now included were not in them. Having spent quite a bit of time in several of the highly-ranked Asian PISA countries - Singapore and China, for example - I'd also question what the point of being at the top of the rankings is if you end up with a population which is really good at passing exams, but not that hot at working alone, being pro-active, taking responsibility etc.
The PISA rankings show the UK to be pretty much performing to European standards - certainly in comparison to other big European economies. Yes, we have been slipping down them, but that's not because standards are slipping - PISA does not show that - but because they are not improving as quickly as they are elsewhere (at least with regard to the ability to pass PISA-related exams), and because when PISA began a lot of the countries that are now included were not in them. Having spent quite a bit of time in several of the highly-ranked Asian PISA countries - Singapore and China, for example - I'd also question what the point of being at the top of the rankings is if you end up with a population which is really good at passing exams, but not that hot at working alone, being pro-active, taking responsibility etc.
What I love about PB is that when desperate some posters resort to a bingo card of insults that claim all contrary views are stupid, no-nothing-about-politics blah blah.
Everytime I see one like this - I know a nerve has been touched.
While the immediate skills are not transferrable to work in the cities the work ethic and healthy outdoir lifestyle would do some couch potatoes a world of good.
Even in the Cheshire farming belt ;-)
So they end up with the boring kids who work and we get the creative ones who can't spell or add, it's not really a competition we're going to win, at least not on the economic fundamentals.
1. The benefits system is as antifrank implies excessively targeted, producing a much greater marginal tax rate for people entering work than the very rich. It used to be up to 100%, and thanks to working tax credit is now no more than 80-90%, but that's still too high. Universal Credit might help, if it works.
2. Willingness to do unpleasant work is an issue. I've done daily care stuff for someone bedridden - most of us will do it for someone we care about, but doing it as a profession would be daunting. Unless we solve point 1, can we realistically expect to get people to do it for a 10-20% improvement in income? Or to set off from Birmingham to pick fruit in Norfolk, with no idea about whether there's really regular work or where to live or even what fruit picking is like? A farm worker in Romania who's willing to take a chance and come to Britain for it may really be a better bet for a Norfolk employer.
3. Ability to do care work decently is an issue. If I was bedridden, I'd possibly rather have one of the old ladies from Romania that andrea describes look after me than some young tough with a criminal record who's doing it because he's been forced off benefits. I'm not generalising and plenty of unemployed people don't fit that category, but you can't just make everyone care workers and hope for a good outcome.
4. Education is an issue, but arguably not the main one. If we think of the jobs that we immediately associate with the problem, they are fruit-picking and social care, neither of which are deemed to require many formal qualifications (though for social care perhaps we should aim higher than we do), plus maybe building labour. There may be people who object to foreign doctors and nurses, but I don't think it's seen as the main problem. But SO is right that we have a chunk of people who aren't trained to do the sort of skilled work in demand, and aren't motivated to do the unskilled work because of points 1 and 2.
IIRC - on day one 3/12 didn't turn up, another 3 left during the day and the next day another 3 didn't show as they had a bad back or whatever.
On Day 3 the remaining 3 moaned about how hard it was and that they'd be better off on the dole. Their Eastern EU worker colleagues were earning much more on the piece rate system as they were driven and were very glad for the work.
It was very interesting viewing.
Not good for the Gov't, negatively affects message on NHS and 'family'. However the Royal Baby should help bury the news lessening the impact somewhat.
The whole point is that PISA is not an objective measure of anything except the ability of kids to pass PISA-related exams. That should not be the goal of any education system worth its salt. Doing well in such exams should, at best, be a welcome by-product (see Finland, rather than China or Singapore).
Thanks Richard. Yes, live in carers...I didn't know the right term in English.
Here they used to come from Philippines (but it was more for live in maids...."la filippina" actually becomes a commen colloquial term for the maid) and South America in the 90s. They fit well also because of cultural reasons as they were Catholic countries. And some agencies bringing them there were Church associated. Now they are more from East Europe countries. They tend to bypass the agency now with the family directly acting as employer.
Are you suggesting that they should rot on the dole in the cities until Labours magic money tree produces jobs next door to their house or a house in the asparagus fields of Norfolk?
Plenty of Poles started off in the fields or on hotel reception night shifts and are now moving into more senior positions. Quite right too.
It's not actually bad.
The average income for Romanian employees in Italy was 12,417 and in Romania they needed 2 workers to reach that level.
In Moldova they need on average 8 employees to reach the income earned by a Moldovian working in Italy. It's 6 for Morocco and Philippines. 4.something for Ukraine and Albania.
"The Labour leader’s announcement that he’s snipping the financial umbilical cord binding him to the trade unions has divided Westminster opinion. Some view it as a bold play that will fundamentally alter the shape and character of his party. Others merely see an attempt to buy Labour some time amidst the Falkirk maelstrom – the political equivalent of Stuart Broad fiddling with his boot during that last day at Trent Bridge.
There’s no doubt many shadow cabinet members regard it as a significant intervention. One Blairite shadow cabinet source mocked comparisons with a ‘Clause 4 Moment’ but recognised, “The reforms themselves are good. The language isn’t great, but they are not bad as a first step, especially given the balance on the NEC [Labour’s executive]”. Another thought it represented a major announcement, but expressed concerns about implementation. “It’s big. The question is, how clear is Ed’s strategy for pushing this through?”
One thing is certain, if the decision effectively to announce the ending of the Labour trade union affiliation was Miliband’s idea of a clever PR ruse he needs to get himself better PR advice. The block affiliation of a union’s members is seen as a fundamental part of the quasi-sacred Labour/union link. Indeed current GMB general secretary Paul Kenny claimed Miliband’s plan was “as close as you can get” to ending that historic relationship. Having a tactical battle with the unions to help re-define Ed Miliband’s leadership may seem logical. But Miliband and his team will have to be careful they’re not biting off more of Len McCluskey than they can chew..." http://www.totalpolitics.com/opinion/384447/cutting-the-cord-is-milibandand39s-gamble-a-gamble-at-all.thtml
I find the tension between OGH and Mr Hodges most instructive.
His reply ... "I don't speak Lithuanian or Polish."
NP's right in that a student, unused to the work, will be a less attractive proposition to a farmer than an immigrant from Eastern Europe.
UK Trade & Investment (UKTI) released its 2012-13 "Inward Investment Annual Report" today. The figures in the release show that the the UK has continued to strengthen its position as the leading European destination for foreign direct investment.
The report shows that in the last financial year:
• the UK saw 1,559 investment projects secured – 11% more projects than the number recorded during the previous year;
• these projects are estimated to have brought with them 170,000 jobs – 51% higher than in the previous year. Of these, nearly 60,000 were new jobs and 110,000 existing jobs were safeguarded
• UKTI and its partners were involved in delivering nearly 85% of the projects secured
The annual report also shows that the recorded increases are spread throughout the UK. Wales and Northern Ireland in particular have recorded significant increases in investment projects – 191% and 41% respectively – while Scotland registered a 16% increase in the number of investments. The number of FDI projects landing in England (excluding London) increased by 10% reaching 759 projects.
A triumph for Vince and the BIS here. Notable is the regional spread of projects; the proactive role taken by the BIS agency UKTI; and, the net job creation resulting from the investments.
And in case there is any timfoolery about this being a piece of government self-advertisement there is plenty of third party endorsement for the findings:
• United Nations Council for Trade and Development (UNCTAD) report of June 2013 reported the FDI flow into the UK increasing by 22% against a global decrease of 18% and a decrease in the EU [?] of 41%
• Ernst and Young reported the UK as the no 1 destination in Europe (679 projects)
• Financial Times reported the UK as the number 1 destination in Europe (829 projects)
Time for the Coalition government to turn its reforming zeal to the NHS. As we all know, success breeds success.
Have a good day, and I hope Ed M is reading. He has a plan to give a job to all long term unemployed, perhaps even picking potatoes in Lincolnshire. I hope he does.
tractor stats Mr Pole, just like Brown. Nice to know but does it tell us anything ?
In 2001 and 2005 there has also been the sense that the election was a foregone conclusion, which exaggerated the decline.
Another possible effect is the greater awareness - of the electorate, media and party organisations - of the marginal constituencies where it actually matters that people vote. This has lead to a large increase in tactical voting, but it probably also explains some of the reduction in voter turnout, for those voters who live in safe seats.
One word of warning, though, with more people attending university, an increase in private renting, second-home ownership and rising levels of family breakup, there is likely to be an increase in the number of people who are registered to vote at more than one address. For example, for the 2001 election I was registered to vote at three addresses - University, Mum and Dad - in three different constituencies. Since I voted only once, my failure to vote in the other two constituencies would have artificially depressed turnout in those constituencies.
1. Spend the whole day trolling ever more "outrageously" on immigration
2. Wait until a poster types something which the Guardian would find it "wacist"
3. Write down the name of that poster and use said comment against them ad naseum until the end of days.
Walk away people.
"Coming ahead of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Paul Dacre and Nick Clegg in GQ’s list, the Guido pair have proven themselves a force to be reckoned with.
Some may suggest Cole was lucky to land such a unique job and not need to pass any journalism exams, but his track-record for breaking stories is there for all to see.
According to the blog, its unique monthly users figure now stands at more than 500,000, up more than 50 per cent year on year.
Cole says that when he joined, the site generally attracted 50,000 page views a day. It now stands at double that “on a bad day”. http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/guido-fawkes-news-editor-harry-cole-‘morally-bankrupt’-lobby-huhne-and-private-eye
One of the bonuses of such a policy is that it would make enforcement of the minimum wage a lot easier if everyone knew they could get a minimum wage job working for the country, and so this policy could also help to increase wages for the low-paid, as employers currently paying minimum wage would have to compete more strongly to attract labour.