An unknown would probably not do well, unless they hidden depths which lead them to flourish. But JC is, despite reverence from his true believers, so unacceptable to many people, that so long as the unknown has basic presentational skills, it will stop the rot, and the rebels will be do grateful corbyn is gone and Abbott didn't pick up the baton, that they'll give them a chance, maybe not even run against them. As Torby fennel says getting the heavyweights back is important; we all joke about not knowing ministers and shadow ministers, but even many wonks haven't heard of most of the current lot, and they cannot all be hidden gems.
Reflecting on my last three Gloucester related posts reveals a pleasing theme :
Rugby, Nobility and Roast Pork ....
Or as Gloucester is a royal duchy, it could be even more alliterative:
Rugby, Royalty and Roast Pork.
As already noted the Duke of Gloucester as Richard III "succeeding" to the English crown. The royal Dukedom of Gloucester has some sad history.
Charles I youngest son died in 1660, a year after becoming the Duke. Queen Anne son William, the heir apparent died in 1700 aged 11. George II's eldest son and heir apparent - Frederick predeceased his father in 1751.
George V's son Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester, saw his heir apparent Prince William die in an aircraft accident in 1972.
On the death of the present Duke, Prince Richard, the title will cease to be a royal dukedom as the Earl of Ulster does not enjoy formal royal status.
Was Poor Fred D of G as well as Prince of Wales?
The recent documentary on George III suggested that his father might have been quite good as king!
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. For myself, I’m prepared to believe people who go on the record, give their names and so on. “Military sources’ suggests a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet jobs on Lewis, then that suggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
We all know you've got to pretend to be slightly common these days (Blair's glottal stop, DC's Easyjet shenanigans) but, come on, RLB has gone full Phoenix Nights.
Her Dad was an Irish docker in Salford. She speaks as you'd expect!
I did note the other day that the leadership were coalescing around her. If she is the anointed one, her odds should be correspondingly short.
She will be on the ballot, but not unopposed. It is far from certain that she would win the votes.
She would certainly be opposed. But there is absolutely no certainty she would be on the ballot. Unless the rules change - which is unlikely - the chances are she will not be on the ballot.
Seems to me the only way is Corbyn stands again and then - if his preferred successor is on the ballot after nominations close then he withdraws. Otherwise I suspect you are going to have trust issues
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
We all know you've got to pretend to be slightly common these days (Blair's glottal stop, DC's Easyjet shenanigans) but, come on, RLB has gone full Phoenix Nights.
Her Dad was an Irish docker in Salford. She speaks as you'd expect!
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
We all know you've got to pretend to be slightly common these days (Blair's glottal stop, DC's Easyjet shenanigans) but, come on, RLB has gone full Phoenix Nights.
Her Dad was an Irish docker in Salford. She speaks as you'd expect!
I did note the other day that the leadership were coalescing around her. If she is the anointed one, her odds should be correspondingly short.
She will be on the ballot, but not unopposed. It is far from certain that she would win the votes.
She would certainly be opposed. But there is absolutely no certainty she would be on the ballot. Unless the rules change - which is unlikely - the chances are she will not be on the ballot.
So if Corbyn says 'I'll go if you put her on the ballot' the Labour Party will respond 'Sorry, the rules don't allow that'?
I never hear Len McCluskey being criticised for his accent nor Andy Burnham nor Graham Stringer.
If she is no good at the job then criticise her for that but moaning about her lack of RP is not the correct starting point
Maybe it's because she's better at her job (or at least, less disastrously incompetent) than those three that we start with her accent?
I mean, we can criticise McCluskey for his greed, corruption, incompetence and the ineffectual nature of his union: Burnham for his vacuity and laziness: Graham Stringer for his views on dyslexia. But Rebecca Long-Bailey is so little known so far that it's her appearance and accent that we focus on.
Mind you, as SO said, it's not how she said it but what she actually said that should rule her straight out. I was even getting fond memories of Richard Burgon!
As someone who does not wish Labour well, I could hardly be happier. The only prospective Corbyn replacement I would fear is Sir Keir Starmer, and even he has significant weaknesses. The selection suggested here is purest dross. Could it actually be that Labour actually is genuinely finished... Spineless, incoherent, leaderless and increasingly pointless.
As someone who does not wish Labour well, I could hardly be happier. The only prospective Corbyn replacement I would fear is Sir Keir Starmer, and even he has significant weaknesses. The selection suggested here is purest dross. Could it actually be that Labour actually is genuinely finished... Spineless, incoherent, leaderless and increasingly pointless.
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. For myself, I’m prepared to believe people who go on the record, give their names and so on. “Military sources’ suggests a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet jobs on Lewis, then that suggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The thing about this stuff is, if he's any good, he'll be able to do a TV interview and turn it around. I expect he'll STFU until after the by-elections, though.
As someone who does not wish Labour well, I could hardly be happier. The only prospective Corbyn replacement I would fear is Sir Keir Starmer, and even he has significant weaknesses. The selection suggested here is purest dross. Could it actually be that Labour actually is genuinely finished... Spineless, incoherent, leaderless and increasingly pointless.
The problem is James is that it may have come ten years too late for your lot.
Imagine how many seats Nick Clegg would have won if John McDonnell had been able to stand against Brown - and win - in 2007. Labour would have suffered the greatest single loss of seats by any party since 1906.
But starting from 9 MPs it's going to be a tough ask for the Oranges to replace the Reds any time soon.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
Accent prejudice can be quite serious, for all we would all claim in public not to judge someone for it. A mummerset accent would likely make people imclined to doubt the credentials if it came out of a Supreme Court justice for instance. Unfortunate. Having only seen one crap interview of rlb, if she does take over hopefully I won't judge her by her accent. Corbyn on the other hand I find to have a naturally soothing tone.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
It's only a tiny fraction of that inspired by David Cameron's and George Osborne's enunciation and associated background.
Except that:
1. Cameron and people from his background have ruled this country almost permanently for at least a century. Part of the criticism was because of over representation
2. Cameron tried to be something he wasn't
1. Wrong
Cameron hailed from a successful stockbroking family. Very specific genus
Can't think of any previous PM that was remotely similar.
Brown and May - church families Blair, Atlee - law Major - self made Thatcher - solid middle class Don't know Callaghan or Eden Wilson was an academic Macmillan, Douglas-Home and Churchill were from a far posher background Baldwin (I think), Bonor Law and Chamberlain were industrialists
Heath probably the closest.
Basically stockbrokers make crap leaders because they don't actually make or do anything: they are just in client relationship management.
Labour, though currently weakened, it still the only game in town if you want an alternative to the Conservatives. That's its USP. Unlike in Scotland, there is no challenger on the horizon
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
Accent prejudice can be quite serious, for all we would all claim in public not to judge someone for it. A mummerset accent would likely make people imclined to doubt the credentials if it came out of a Supreme Court justice for instance. Unfortunate. Having only seen one crap interview of rlb, if she does take over hopefully I won't judge her by her accent. Corbyn on the other hand I find to have a naturally soothing tone.
Bill Bailey reckons this why there are no war reporters from the west country. "It's all kickin off ere in Aleppo!"
I did note the other day that the leadership were coalescing around her. If she is the anointed one, her odds should be correspondingly short.
She will be on the ballot, but not unopposed. It is far from certain that she would win the votes.
She would certainly be opposed. But there is absolutely no certainty she would be on the ballot. Unless the rules change - which is unlikely - the chances are she will not be on the ballot.
So if Corbyn says 'I'll go if you put her on the ballot' the Labour Party will respond 'Sorry, the rules don't allow that'?
The far left is losing ground rapidly inside Labour. Corbyn is going by the end of next year. Why do a deal to hasten it by a few months?
I did note the other day that the leadership were coalescing around her. If she is the anointed one, her odds should be correspondingly short.
She will be on the ballot, but not unopposed. It is far from certain that she would win the votes.
She would certainly be opposed. But there is absolutely no certainty she would be on the ballot. Unless the rules change - which is unlikely - the chances are she will not be on the ballot.
So if Corbyn says 'I'll go if you put her on the ballot' the Labour Party will respond 'Sorry, the rules don't allow that'?
The far left is losing ground rapidly inside Labour. Corbyn is going by the end of next year. Why do a deal to hasten it by a few months?
The current one is pretty solid in a thankless role (deputy assistant to the assistant deputy chief)
Indeed. Although if our monarchy followed agnatic or salic law then Prince Richard would be King Richard IV having succeeded his father, Henry IX, in 1974.
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. For myself, I’m prepared to believe people who go on the record, give their names and so on. “Military sources’ suggests a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet jobs on Lewis, then that suggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The mainstream media is not only Tory leaning, it's so Tory supporting it will hatchet anyone who might make someone a threat to the tories? Ookay. One wonders how we've ever ended up with labour governments.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
Accent prejudice can be quite serious, for all we would all claim in public not to judge someone for it. A mummerset accent would likely make people imclined to doubt the credentials if it came out of a Supreme Court justice for instance. Unfortunate. Having only seen one crap interview of rlb, if she does take over hopefully I won't judge her by her accent. Corbyn on the other hand I find to have a naturally soothing tone.
Bill Bailey reckons this why there are no war reporters from the west country. "It's all kickin off ere in Aleppo!"
Didn’t Denning keep his Hampshire accent until the end of his life?
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
Accent prejudice can be quite serious, for all we would all claim in public not to judge someone for it. A mummerset accent would likely make people imclined to doubt the credentials if it came out of a Supreme Court justice for instance. Unfortunate. Having only seen one crap interview of rlb, if she does take over hopefully I won't judge her by her accent. Corbyn on the other hand I find to have a naturally soothing tone.
Bill Bailey reckons this why there are no war reporters from the west country. "It's all kickin off ere in Aleppo!"
Also known as the brain surgery test - admit it, if soneone with a stereotypical farmers voice spoke just as you drifted off, announcing they were about to cut into your cerebellum (or whatever), you'd probably have a momentary twinge of worry.
Mr. W, by chance, I was reading about inheritance approaches for a blog (about why Welsh laws meant Scotland and England were relatively stronger) and there are some intriguing approaches. One, ultimogeniture[sp] means the youngest inherits.
I did note the other day that the leadership were coalescing around her. If she is the anointed one, her odds should be correspondingly short.
She will be on the ballot, but not unopposed. It is far from certain that she would win the votes.
She would certainly be opposed. But there is absolutely no certainty she would be on the ballot. Unless the rules change - which is unlikely - the chances are she will not be on the ballot.
So if Corbyn says 'I'll go if you put her on the ballot' the Labour Party will respond 'Sorry, the rules don't allow that'?
The far left is losing ground rapidly inside Labour. Corbyn is going by the end of next year. Why do a deal to hasten it by a few months?
Why do you think the left is losing ground in Labour. I would say the opposite where I am a number of right wingers ousted from there candidacy by left slate where I am
Labour, though currently weakened, it still the only game in town if you want an alternative to the Conservatives. That's its USP. Unlike in Scotland, there is no challenger on the horizon
Fact. At present, they're too strong to die. Until someone can deliver a killing blow, they can at the least shuffle on. And therefore, however improbable it might seem right now, rise again.
I see Bercow impartiality problem has arisen again...no not telling everybody at Reading Uni what we already knew about his opinions on Brexit...but....
It comes amid fresh allegations that Mr Bercow had prevented the Commons being warned about police inquiries into Keith Vaz after accepting tens of thousands of pounds from business associates of the Labour MP towards his election campaigns in 2010 and 2015.
Mr. W, by chance, I was reading about inheritance approaches for a blog (about why Welsh laws meant Scotland and England were relatively stronger) and there are some intriguing approaches. One, ultimogeniture[sp] means the youngest inherits.
Mr D, wasn’t there a rule in Wales that if a child took the mothers fathers name, the child was entitled to inherit from both their grandparents? Or something like that.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
We all know you've got to pretend to be slightly common these days (Blair's glottal stop, DC's Easyjet shenanigans) but, come on, RLB has gone full Phoenix Nights.
Her Dad was an Irish docker in Salford. She speaks as you'd expect!
She's not being touted as the potential manager of a FitnessFirst she is, apparently, being considered as the Labour Party's candidate to be Prime Minister of whatever is left of the United Kingdom in 2020. Given the evidence of the video above do you think there is any chance at all the swing voters in LAB-CON marginals are going to say, "You know what? Let's give Liam Gallagher's less intelligent cousin who has no fucking idea what she's talking about a go as PM."
I think British voters are far less prejudiced than many on here. They'll judge her on her competence not on how she speaks. That's why she'd be a bad choice. That said, she has certainly achieved plenty: born into a poor, working class family, got a degree, worked at some well-regarded law firms, became an MP. I don't share her politics, but I applaud her graft and grit.
You and I have a materially different idea of well regarded law firms. 2 of the 3 were/are shitshops of the bottom feeder variety. Pinsents is, thinking of posters here, variable.
Mr. W, by chance, I was reading about inheritance approaches for a blog (about why Welsh laws meant Scotland and England were relatively stronger) and there are some intriguing approaches. One, ultimogeniture[sp] means the youngest inherits.
Didn't the Mongolians practice that. As a youngest son, I think it a great system.
In the absence of game changer like Trudeau, Labour need someone competent, likeable and credible. John Smith.
Though without the leprosy of Jockishness..
That's actually a good point, joking aside. I wonder if that does ever rear its head in discussions about potential party leaders, given the direction of travel of the Union?
The current one is pretty solid in a thankless role (deputy assistant to the assistant deputy chief)
Indeed. Although if our monarchy followed agnatic or salic law then Prince Richard would be King Richard IV having succeeded his father, Henry IX, in 1974.
None of that fancy French stuff around 'ere, thank y' very much!
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. For myself, I’m prepared to believe people who go on the record, give their names and so on. “Military sources’ suggests a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet jobs on Lewis, then that suggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The mainstream media is not only Tory leaning, it's so Tory supporting it will hatchet anyone who might make someone a threat to the tories? Ookay. One wonders how we've ever ended up with labour governments.
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. For myself, I’m prepared to believe people who go on the record, give their names and so on. “Military sources’ suggests a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet jobs on Lewis, then that suggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The mainstream media is not only Tory leaning, it's so Tory supporting it will hatchet anyone who might make someone a threat to the tories? Ookay. One wonders how we've ever ended up with labour governments.
The only Labour Prime Minister elected in the last 50 years is Tony Blair, a person described by Margaret Thatcher as her greatest acheivement and someone who would have been quite at home in the Tory Party.
They have to have a Labour Party elected now and again, it helps to deflect criticism. We are still hearing about how Labour's mismanagement nearly ten years ago has created the financial mess we are currently in.
even the secret story about RLB and others undermines Corbyn. Question i,s can he do much more damage than already done. Lets hope so, its popcorn time!
As someone who does not wish Labour well, I could hardly be happier. The only prospective Corbyn replacement I would fear is Sir Keir Starmer, and even he has significant weaknesses. The selection suggested here is purest dross. Could it actually be that Labour actually is genuinely finished... Spineless, incoherent, leaderless and increasingly pointless.
The problem is James is that it may have come ten years too late for your lot.
Imagine how many seats Nick Clegg would have won if John McDonnell had been able to stand against Brown - and win - in 2007. Labour would have been the greatest single loss of seats by any party since 1906.
But starting from 9 MPs it's going to be a tough ask for the Oranges to replace the Reds any time soon.
I think we all see that May has very shallow support. The abandonment of any kind of EU halfway house and the determination to go all out is worrying a lot of voters. Labours collusion with that is awful tactics and a strategic disaster.
We will see what happens in the locals, but I think there is a chance that the kind of thing happening in by elections can be replicated and on those kind of swings I think some very dramatic results really could happen. Al Carmichael's comment that "Labour is not even in opposition" hits home because it's true. The fundamental problem for Labour is that Lib Dems know what they want and are clear and unapologetic about it. The fact that it is not 100% popular is actually good: Farron is not courting cheap popularity, the Lib Dems genuinely stand for Europe. Corbyn is fudging and it looks (and is) spineless.
Agreed it is a mountain to climb, but just because the vaunted Lib/Lib Dem surge never really happened does not mean it can not or will not. Trump hurts the Tories very badly, so I could easily see a recovery not just to 20-30 seats, but well beyond the previous high water mark. The odds? Still small right now, but good locals and a couple more by elections and Farron is back in the game. A year ago that did not seem remotely probable. The shifts are tectonic and actually quite rapid. The long term trend away from 2 party politics still holds.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford (actually Chester, ed) accent.
Yes, from many of the same people who told us WWC Leavers were salt of the earth and waste several million pixels a day rattling about the metropolitan elite. Selective snobbery.
Mr. W, by chance, I was reading about inheritance approaches for a blog (about why Welsh laws meant Scotland and England were relatively stronger) and there are some intriguing approaches. One, ultimogeniture[sp] means the youngest inherits.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
We all know you've got to pretend to be slightly common these days (Blair's glottal stop, DC's Easyjet shenanigans) but, come on, RLB has gone full Phoenix Nights.
Her Dad was an Irish docker in Salford. She speaks as you'd expect!
She's not being touted as the potential manager of a FitnessFirst she is, apparently, being considered as the Labour Party's candidate to be Prime Minister of whatever is left of the United Kingdom in 2020. Given the evidence of the video above do you think there is any chance at all the swing voters in LAB-CON marginals are going to say, "You know what? Let's give Liam Gallagher's less intelligent cousin who has no fucking idea what she's talking about a go as PM."
I think British voters are far less prejudiced than many on here. They'll judge her on her competence not on how she speaks. That's why she'd be a bad choice. That said, she has certainly achieved plenty: born into a poor, working class family, got a degree, worked at some well-regarded law firms, became an MP. I don't share her politics, but I applaud her graft and grit.
You and I have a materially different idea of well regarded law firms. 2 of the 3 were/are shitshops of the bottom feeder variety. Pinsents is, thinking of posters here, variable.
Yep, my idea is of firms that get good rankings in Chambers and the Legal 500.
Mr. W, by chance, I was reading about inheritance approaches for a blog (about why Welsh laws meant Scotland and England were relatively stronger) and there are some intriguing approaches. One, ultimogeniture[sp] means the youngest inherits.
Mr D, wasn’t there a rule in Wales that if a child took the mothers fathers name, the child was entitled to inherit from both their grandparents? Or something like that.
It was quite common in the whole UK where there was only a female heir: if her husband took her family name then he got the estate rather than it being sent tail male.
If Labour brought back Ed Miliband, they could at least try the Bobby Ewing Strategy and just wake up in the shower pretending the Corbyn Era was just a bad dream.
But the reality is more like the shower scene from Psycho.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
We all know you've got to pretend to be slightly common these days (Blair's glottal stop, DC's Easyjet shenanigans) but, come on, RLB has gone full Phoenix Nights.
Her Dad was an Irish docker in Salford. She speaks as you'd expect!
She's not being touted as the potential manager of a FitnessFirst she is, apparently, being considered as the Labour Party's candidate to be Prime Minister of whatever is left of the United Kingdom in 2020. Given the evidence of the video above do you think there is any chance at all the swing voters in LAB-CON marginals are going to say, "You know what? Let's give Liam Gallagher's less intelligent cousin who has no fucking idea what she's talking about a go as PM."
I think British voters are far less prejudiced than many on here. They'll judge her on her competence not on how she speaks. That's why she'd be a bad choice. That said, she has certainly achieved plenty: born into a poor, working class family, got a degree, worked at some well-regarded law firms, became an MP. I don't share her politics, but I applaud her graft and grit.
You and I have a materially different idea of well regarded law firms. 2 of the 3 were/are shitshops of the bottom feeder variety. Pinsents is, thinking of posters here, variable.
Yep, my idea is of firms that get good rankings in Chambers and the Legal 500.
1 of the 3 went bust. HD doesn't get good rankings.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford (actually Chester, ed) accent.
Yes, from many of the same people who told us WWC Leavers were salt of the earth and waste several million pixels a day rattling about the metropolitan elite. Selective snobbery.
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. For myself, I’m prepared to believe people who go on the record, give their names and so on. “Military sources’ suggests a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet jobs on Lewis, then that suggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The mainstream media is not only Tory leaning, it's so Tory supporting it will hatchet anyone who might make someone a threat to the tories? Ookay. One wonders how we've ever ended up with labour governments.
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. For myself, I’m prepared to believe people who go on the record, give their names and so on. “Military sources’ suggests a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet jobs on Lewis, then that suggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The mainstream media is not only Tory leaning, it's so Tory supporting it will hatchet anyone who might make someone a threat to the tories? Ookay. One wonders how we've ever ended up with labour governments.
The only Labour Prime Minister elected in the last 50 years is Tony Blair, a person described by Margaret Thatcher as her greatest acheivement and someone who would have been quite at home in the Tory Party.
They have to have a Labour Party elected now and again, it helps to deflect criticism. We are still hearing about how Labour's mismanagement nearly ten years ago has created the financial mess we are currently in.
Mr. W, by chance, I was reading about inheritance approaches for a blog (about why Welsh laws meant Scotland and England were relatively stronger) and there are some intriguing approaches. One, ultimogeniture[sp] means the youngest inherits.
Yongest sons or youngest child? (Given the content of some of the postings on here this morning)
In the absence of game changer like Trudeau, Labour need someone competent, likeable and credible. John Smith.
Though without the leprosy of Jockishness..
That's actually a good point, joking aside. I wonder if that does ever rear its head in discussions about potential party leaders, given the direction of travel of the Union?
I daresay it might, though with only one Scottish mp & with the prospect of gaining more very bleak, I'd imagine it's a pretty academic discussion. Though Yvette is Scottish born I believe..
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been insniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet cerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The mainstream media is not only Tory leaning, it's so Tory supporting it will hatchet anyone who might make someone a threat to the tories? Ookay. One wonders how we've ever ended up with labour governments.
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doingsuggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The mainstream media is not only Tory leaning, it's so Tory supporting it will hatchet anyone who might make someone a threat to the tories? Ookay. One wonders how we've ever ended up with labour governments.
The only Labour Prime Minister elected in the last 50 years is Tony Blair, a person described by Margaret Thatcher as her greatest acheivement and someone who would have been quite at home in the Tory Party.
They have to have a Labour Party elected now and again, it helps to deflect criticism. We are still hearing about how Labour's mismanagement nearly ten years ago has created the financial mess we are currently in.
Well as you say we are currently in it, so of course we hear about the beginnings. And we hear about it because politicians play the blame game more than the media. It used to be called the Tory government excuse, where any question that is brought up is diverted onto the subject of the last government. Brown tried it once 13 years into a labour government! Also, the left still bang on about thatcher despite having been out of power for some time now. Everyone blames the last lot. And I'm sure I've seen negative stories about tories in the papers.
Seeing a conspiracy, and a longstanding one at that, by the 'msm' is just paranoia. Plenty of media is left leaning, indeed right wingers cannot stop whinging about that.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
The joys of womanhood. If she was a man the same accent would probably be seen as connecting to working class roots. I never hear Len McCluskey being criticised for his accent nor Andy Burnham nor Graham Stringer.
If she is no good at the job then criticise her for that but moaning about her lack of RP is not the correct starting point
See also Paul Nuttall. Middle class conservative and liberal commentators seem to believe that the mere possession of a scouse accent will be enough to get erstwhile white working class Labour voters flocking to UKIP.
Not if Labour can help it.
The Potter's Wheel Your no-spin guide to Stoke-On-Trent By-Election.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
We all know you've got to pretend to be slightly common these days (Blair's glottal stop, DC's Easyjet shenanigans) but, come on, RLB has gone full Phoenix Nights.
Her Dad was an Irish docker in Salford. She speaks as you'd expect!
She's not being touted as the potential manager of a FitnessFirst she is, apparently, being considered as the Labour Party's candidate to be Prime Minister of whatever is left of the United Kingdom in 2020. Given the evidence of the video above do you think there is any chance at all the swing voters in LAB-CON marginals are going to say, "You know what? Let's give Liam Gallagher's less intelligent cousin who has no fucking idea what she's talking about a go as PM."
I think British voters are far less prejudiced than many on here. They'll judge her on her competence not on how she speaks. That's why she'd be a bad choice. That said, she has certainly achieved plenty: born into a poor, working class family, got a degree, worked at some well-regarded law firms, became an MP. I don't share her politics, but I applaud her graft and grit.
I agree with all that. She is a self made working class woman who has an appealing story: hard working, and well presented. She just lacks the experience for the job!
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
We all know you've got to pretend to be slightly common these days (Blair's glottal stop, DC's Easyjet shenanigans) but, come on, RLB has gone full Phoenix Nights.
Her Dad was an Irish docker in Salford. She speaks as you'd expect!
She's not being touted as the potential manager of a FitnessFirst she is, apparently, being considered as the Labour Party's candidate to be Prime Minister of whatever is left of the United Kingdom in 2020. Given the evidence of the video above do you think there is any chance at all the swing voters in LAB-CON marginals are going to say, "You know what? Let's give Liam Gallagher's less intelligent cousin who has no fucking idea what she's talking about a go as PM."
I think British voters are far less prejudiced than many on here. They'll judge her on her competence not on how she speaks. That's why she'd be a bad choice. That said, she has certainly achieved plenty: born into a poor, working class family, got a degree, worked at some well-regarded law firms, became an MP. I don't share her politics, but I applaud her graft and grit.
You and I have a materially different idea of well regarded law firms. 2 of the 3 were/are shitshops of the bottom feeder variety. Pinsents is, thinking of posters here, variable.
Yep, my idea is of firms that get good rankings in Chambers and the Legal 500.
1 of the 3 went bust. HD doesn't get good rankings.
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. For myself, I’m prepared to believe people who go on the record, give their names and so on. “Military sources’ suggests a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet jobs on Lewis, then that suggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The mainstream media is not only Tory leaning, it's so Tory supporting it will hatchet anyone who might make someone a threat to the tories? Ookay. One wonders how we've ever ended up with labour governments.
On the subject of Lewis' military record... the fact that he was unlikely to have been in a firefight hardly disproves the fact that he might have shot a civilian. This isn't Hilary Clinton ducking sniper fire.
Well, I’m sure it won’t be long before one of his team surfaces. For myself, I’m prepared to believe people who go on the record, give their names and so on. “Military sources’ suggests a bored ex-squaddy wanting another drink!
If the MSM are doing hatchet jobs on Lewis, then that suggests to me that they they are a little concerned that he might actually be able to lead a Party that could become a threat to the Tories.
The mainstream media is not only Tory leaning, it's so Tory supporting it will hatchet anyone who might make someone a threat to the tories? Ookay. One wonders how we've ever ended up with labour governments.
The only Labour Prime Minister elected in the last 50 years is Tony Blair, a person described by Margaret Thatcher as her greatest acheivement and someone who would have been quite at home in the Tory Party.
They have to have a Labour Party elected now and again, it helps to deflect criticism. We are still hearing about how Labour's mismanagement nearly ten years ago has created the financial mess we are currently in.
Mr. W, by chance, I was reading about inheritance approaches for a blog (about why Welsh laws meant Scotland and England were relatively stronger) and there are some intriguing approaches. One, ultimogeniture[sp] means the youngest inherits.
Mr D, wasn’t there a rule in Wales that if a child took the mothers fathers name, the child was entitled to inherit from both their grandparents? Or something like that.
It was quite common in the whole UK where there was only a female heir: if her husband took her family name then he got the estate rather than it being sent tail male.
According to my father in Wales it applied across the board, whether there were male heirs or not. Resulted in my sister and myself being lumbered with a very difficult name without, since we had more maternal uncles and aunts than we could shake a stick at, a penny with which to compensate ourselves.
King Cole, not sure. The difference I knew about was that in England and Scotland the eldest son got everything. In Wales, it was split (unsure if daughters were included) equally. That led to fragmentation of power, as well as an incentive to murder your siblings.
Mr. kle4, unsure, to be honest. My knowledge of the Mongols is minimal. I do know Mongolia is one of about 10 countries upon whom we've never declared war.
In the absence of game changer like Trudeau, Labour need someone competent, likeable and credible. John Smith.
Though without the leprosy of Jockishness..
That's actually a good point, joking aside. I wonder if that does ever rear its head in discussions about potential party leaders, given the direction of travel of the Union?
I daresay it might, though with only one Scottish mp & with the prospect of gaining more very bleak, I'd imagine it's a pretty academic discussion. Though Yvette is Scottish born I believe..
Agreed it is a mountain to climb, but just because the vaunted Lib/Lib Dem surge never really happened does not mean it can not or will not. Trump hurts the Tories very badly, so I could easily see a recovery not just to 20-30 seats, but well beyond the previous high water mark. The odds? Still small right now, but good locals and a couple more by elections and Farron is back in the game. A year ago that did not seem remotely probable. The shifts are tectonic and actually quite rapid. The long term trend away from 2 party politics still holds.
Possibly true. But remember David Steele said much the same in the 1980s as well - and it didn't happen then either. Sensational realignments are rare and require a complex variety of factors to all appear at once (cf Labour 1918-1929) which I just don't see at this moment.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
The joys of womanhood. If she was a man the same accent would probably be seen as connecting to working class roots. I never hear Len McCluskey being criticised for his accent nor Andy Burnham nor Graham Stringer.
If she is no good at the job then criticise her for that but moaning about her lack of RP is not the correct starting point
I note others are criticising her appearance too, insinuating her smart feminine styling is a brassy barmaid look. Again, sexism and the English class system doing their work.
One of my favourite systems was the old Montenegrin one, whereby the ruler was a prince-bishop who was succeeded by his nephew.
Unfortunately, that ended when Serbia screwed Montenegro after WWI and the Allies did nothing to stand up for the little country that had been on our side.
The Czar probably would've, but he wasn't in a position to do so, for obvious reasons.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford (actually Chester, ed) accent.
Yes, from many of the same people who told us WWC Leavers were salt of the earth and waste several million pixels a day rattling about the metropolitan elite. Selective snobbery.
Well, people are at heart the same whether on left or the right - they are all about those common people...unless they have to deal with those common people directly (or those people do something omen disagree with them).
I agree. And I don't think she is up to it. But having read some of sexist snobbish bile on here this morning, I'm warming to the idea of giving the lass a chance.
Loving the prejudice inspired on here by a white, working class Salford accent.
We all know you've got to pretend to be slightly common these days (Blair's glottal stop, DC's Easyjet shenanigans) but, come on, RLB has gone full Phoenix Nights.
Her Dad was an Irish docker in Salford. She speaks as you'd expect!
She's not being touted as the potential manager of a FitnessFirst she is, apparently, being considered as the Labour Party's candidate to be Prime Minister of whatever is left of the United Kingdom in 2020. Given the evidence of the video above do you think there is any chance at all the swing voters in LAB-CON marginals are going to say, "You know what? Let's give Liam Gallagher's less intelligent cousin who has no fucking idea what she's talking about a go as PM."
I think British voters are far less prejudiced than many on here. They'll judge her on her competence not on how she speaks. That's why she'd be a bad choice. That said, she has certainly achieved plenty: born into a poor, working class family, got a degree, worked at some well-regarded law firms, became an MP. I don't share her politics, but I applaud her graft and grit.
You and I have a materially different idea of well regarded law firms. 2 of the 3 were/are shitshops of the bottom feeder variety. Pinsents is, thinking of posters here, variable.
Yep, my idea is of firms that get good rankings in Chambers and the Legal 500.
1 of the 3 went bust. HD doesn't get good rankings.
I agree. And I don't think she is up to it. But having read some of sexist snobbish bile on here this morning, I'm warming to the idea of giving the lass a chance.
Seen plenty of snobbishness, not so much on the sexism, other than making fun of labour for not picking female leaders? Oh I see the barmaid comment. Still hardy typical. One of the oldest deflection methods, pick particular views as representative even if they are not. I think there's more traction criticising the accent dismissal.
King Cole, not sure. The difference I knew about was that in England and Scotland the eldest son got everything. In Wales, it was split (unsure if daughters were included) equally. That led to fragmentation of power, as well as an incentive to murder your siblings.
Mr. kle4, unsure, to be honest. My knowledge of the Mongols is minimal. I do know Mongolia is one of about 10 countries upon whom we've never declared war.
Tanistry succession in ancient Scotland and Ireland was an early form of democratic monarchy and chieftanship whereby the heir apparent was chosen from eligible male heirs of the sept. The Tanist had to be sound of mind and body.
The term remains in modern usage as the Deputy PM in the Republic of Ireland is the Tanaiste.
Comments
The recent documentary on George III suggested that his father might have been quite good as king!
I mean, we can criticise McCluskey for his greed, corruption, incompetence and the ineffectual nature of his union: Burnham for his vacuity and laziness: Graham Stringer for his views on dyslexia. But Rebecca Long-Bailey is so little known so far that it's her appearance and accent that we focus on.
Mind you, as SO said, it's not how she said it but what she actually said that should rule her straight out. I was even getting fond memories of Richard Burgon!
Imagine how many seats Nick Clegg would have won if John McDonnell had been able to stand against Brown - and win - in 2007. Labour would have suffered the greatest single loss of seats by any party since 1906.
But starting from 9 MPs it's going to be a tough ask for the Oranges to replace the Reds any time soon.
Diane Abbott gave good face
Cameron hailed from a successful stockbroking family. Very specific genus
Can't think of any previous PM that was remotely similar.
Brown and May - church families
Blair, Atlee - law
Major - self made
Thatcher - solid middle class
Don't know Callaghan or Eden
Wilson was an academic
Macmillan, Douglas-Home and Churchill were from a far posher background
Baldwin (I think), Bonor Law and Chamberlain were industrialists
Heath probably the closest.
Basically stockbrokers make crap leaders because they don't actually make or do anything: they are just in client relationship management.
Look at that £££ trying to back Chuka at 27... about £750!
Mrs Balls was doing Gangham style on look north for the Calais kids as well so she is definitely still alive.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2844629/donald-trump-may-snub-parliament-and-stage-a-10-a-ticket-stadium-rally-in-birmingham-or-wembley-to-help-war-veterans/
It comes amid fresh allegations that Mr Bercow had prevented the Commons being warned about police inquiries into Keith Vaz after accepting tens of thousands of pounds from business associates of the Labour MP towards his election campaigns in 2010 and 2015.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/11/john-bercow-new-brexit-furore-neutrality-admitting-voted-remain/
Or something like that.
He is more unpopular than Corbyn. That is how unpopular he is.
What if Corbyn had turned out to be any good and had established himself as a potential PM.
Whilst an unconventional candidate, there was nothing inevitable about him turning out to be quite as weak and unpopular.
They have to have a Labour Party elected now and again, it helps to deflect criticism. We are still hearing about how Labour's mismanagement nearly ten years ago has created the financial mess we are currently in.
We will see what happens in the locals, but I think there is a chance that the kind of thing happening in by elections can be replicated and on those kind of swings I think some very dramatic results really could happen. Al Carmichael's comment that "Labour is not even in opposition" hits home because it's true. The fundamental problem for Labour is that Lib Dems know what they want and are clear and unapologetic about it. The fact that it is not 100% popular is actually good: Farron is not courting cheap popularity, the Lib Dems genuinely stand for Europe. Corbyn is fudging and it looks (and is) spineless.
Agreed it is a mountain to climb, but just because the vaunted Lib/Lib Dem surge never really happened does not mean it can not or will not. Trump hurts the Tories very badly, so I could easily see a recovery not just to 20-30 seats, but well beyond the previous high water mark. The odds? Still small right now, but good locals and a couple more by elections and Farron is back in the game. A year ago that did not seem remotely probable. The shifts are tectonic and actually quite rapid. The long term trend away from 2 party politics still holds.
But the reality is more like the shower scene from Psycho.
Seeing a conspiracy, and a longstanding one at that, by the 'msm' is just paranoia. Plenty of media is left leaning, indeed right wingers cannot stop whinging about that.
The Potter's Wheel
Your no-spin guide to Stoke-On-Trent By-Election.
http://www.markpack.org.uk/148384/official-labour-leaflet-lie-say-oppose-brexit/
Halliwells was a well-regarded firm.
Sarah Palinesque. Just say no.
Mr. kle4, unsure, to be honest. My knowledge of the Mongols is minimal. I do know Mongolia is one of about 10 countries upon whom we've never declared war.
Mr. W, didn't think you would
Of course I could be wrong...
Since May 2015, 80 Labour MPs have been in the shadow cabinet. https://t.co/APaT5LxQRt
One of my favourite systems was the old Montenegrin one, whereby the ruler was a prince-bishop who was succeeded by his nephew.
Unfortunately, that ended when Serbia screwed Montenegro after WWI and the Allies did nothing to stand up for the little country that had been on our side.
The Czar probably would've, but he wasn't in a position to do so, for obvious reasons.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingdom-Asunder-Bloody-Crown-Trilogy-ebook/dp/B01N8UF799/
[Most of the major protagonists are women, including Karena, who's a sort of Thatcher, Tywin Lannister, Livia from I, Claudius character].
The term remains in modern usage as the Deputy PM in the Republic of Ireland is the Tanaiste.