Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s cartoon on Trump

2

Comments

  • Options
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Why mind boggling and why idiots. The NHS and social care is hugely complex and not helped by abusing 50% of voters. The most recent poll had Theresa May more trusted than Corbyn on the NHS
    Because 59% of the very same sample said that the problems were caused by lack of funding. If we want a better health service we will have to pay for it. The Mid Staffs report was published 4 years ago today. Lots of people on here were up in arms about it and using it against the Labour government, but at least Labour increased the funding for health towards what it should be. With the current government's cuts then Mid Staffs will happen again.
    You have a better chance of making your point if you dont brand tax payers idiots
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    edited February 2017
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    So we dump our Speaker cos of criticism from a lawmaker of a foreign power. How patriotic! That's truly taking back control.
    Not just criticism, a complete refusal to respect the State Visit and even provide an equal honour accorded to the President of China and the Emir of Kuwait. Mogg would be an excellent candidate for a coup, respected across the House for his knowledge of Parliament, would willingly allow Trump to speak and would also likely increase ratings on CSPAN too! If enough MPs back him he could force Bercow's resignation
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    chestnut said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    These 'idiots' look at the other far more efficient businesses they encounter and wonder why the NHS keeps asking for more and more money yet remains in perpetual "crisis".

    Education tends to do that for people. They stop accepting, "Give us more money" as the answer to everything.



    So chestnut when/if you develop an extremely debilitating condition like rheumatoid arthritis you will I suppose be telling your doctor that the new-fangled biological treatment which works exceptionally well with fewer adverse effects is not for you because it £1,000 per injection and you'll be quite satisfied with the toxic methotrexate which works not so well because it's only a few pence per tablet?


  • Options

    Ishmael_Z said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Ryan Lizza
    This editorial in @SPIEGEL_English is jaw-dropping. It calls for a German-led international alliance against Trump. https://t.co/rvoSDz2t4R

    Hmm

    It only says what most of us are thinking.

    "Germany must stand up in opposition to the 45th president of the United States and his government. That's difficult enough already for two reasons: Because it is from the Americans that we obtained our liberal democracy in the first place; and because it is unclear how the brute and choleric man on the other side will react to diplomatic pressure."

    I love "brute and choleric man" and I do hope it is how a real German thinks you say that in English, not just a machine translation. But my main reaction is that I now realise that hitherto when I have said Trump scares me, I didn't really mean it. Now I do.
    NATO is not going to survive much more of this .The Germans have taken leave of their senses.
    I was surprised at the President of Lithuania's dismissive remarks in Malta too.......maybe she'll tweet NATO for help from her bunker.....
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Chris_A said:

    chestnut said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    These 'idiots' look at the other far more efficient businesses they encounter and wonder why the NHS keeps asking for more and more money yet remains in perpetual "crisis".

    Education tends to do that for people. They stop accepting, "Give us more money" as the answer to everything.



    So chestnut when/if you develop an extremely debilitating condition like rheumatoid arthritis you will I suppose be telling your doctor that the new-fangled biological treatment which works exceptionally well with fewer adverse effects is not for you because it £1,000 per injection and you'll be quite satisfied with the toxic methotrexate which works not so well because it's only a few pence per tablet?


    There are plenty of other worthy causes that compete with your worthy cause for government funding.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252

    Report on Vote2012 website from a LD deliverer today . He delivered a leaflet and personal addressed leter on the outskirts of the seat . Little sign of activity from other parties except one group of Labour canvassers . Very few posters and billboards . Total seen 4 Labour 3 Lib Dem Zero UKIP/Con

    Reckon the conservatives will be using social media, e mails and concentrating on the postal votes which will be very important in a by election at this time of year
    The Conservatives will be 4th in Stoke .
    UKIP win Stoke, Tories win Copeland will more than make up for it (and the only polling we have from Stoke has the Tories 3rd)
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556
    Sean_F said:

    I think I pay sufficient in tax for the government to make do.

    It's not the "more money" that bothers me, it's the fact that it's the default solution to fixing problems with public services. The NHS has had a huge increase in spending over the last few decades, and I can't help but wonder if there aren't more fundamental problems with it.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,051
    edited February 2017
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    So we dump our Speaker cos of criticism from a lawmaker of a foreign power. How patriotic! That's truly taking back control.
    Not just criticism, a complete refusal to respect the State Visit and even provide an equal honour accorded to the President of China and the Emir of Kuwait. Mogg would be an excellent candidate for a coup, respected across the House for his knowledge of Parliament, would willingly allow Trump to speak and would also likely increase ratings on CSPAN too!
    Nonsense. He is a buffoon who looks like and acts like Walter the Softy and would make us a target for ridicule around the world. I am interested in which other foreign Nations should have a veto on who is our Speaker?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Why mind boggling and why idiots. The NHS and social care is hugely complex and not helped by abusing 50% of voters. The most recent poll had Theresa May more trusted than Corbyn on the NHS
    Because 59% of the very same sample said that the problems were caused by lack of funding. If we want a better health service we will have to pay for it. The Mid Staffs report was published 4 years ago today. Lots of people on here were up in arms about it and using it against the Labour government, but at least Labour increased the funding for health towards what it should be. With the current government's cuts then Mid Staffs will happen again.
    You have a better chance of making your point if you dont brand tax payers idiots
    I'm afraid that someone who thinks that a service is underfunded and yet won't pay more in tax is an idiot. The fairest way of paying for health is through taxation.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Chris_A said:

    chestnut said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    These 'idiots' look at the other far more efficient businesses they encounter and wonder why the NHS keeps asking for more and more money yet remains in perpetual "crisis".

    Education tends to do that for people. They stop accepting, "Give us more money" as the answer to everything.



    So chestnut when/if you develop an extremely debilitating condition like rheumatoid arthritis you will I suppose be telling your doctor that the new-fangled biological treatment which works exceptionally well with fewer adverse effects is not for you because it £1,000 per injection and you'll be quite satisfied with the toxic methotrexate which works not so well because it's only a few pence per tablet?


    Perhaps the money would be there if:

    a) My one contact didn't turn into 7 because of incompetence
    b) My mother in law didn't spend eight months in a coma as a result of a botched operation
    c) My wife wasn't discharged from A and E with her broken ankle being missed
    d) My aunt wasn't waved away from A and E with a fractured spine..

    shall I carry on?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    So we dump our Speaker cos of criticism from a lawmaker of a foreign power. How patriotic! That's truly taking back control.
    Not just criticism, a complete refusal to respect the State Visit and even provide an equal honour accorded to the President of China and the Emir of Kuwait. Mogg would be an excellent candidate for a coup, respected across the House for his knowledge of Parliament, would willingly allow Trump to speak and would also likely increase ratings on CSPAN too!
    Nonsense. He is a buffoon who looks like and acts like Walter the Softy and would make us a target for ridicule around the world. I am interested in which other foreign Nations should have a veto on who is our Speaker?
    Rubbish, he is the image of what much of the world has about the best of British parliamentary and upper class tradition. Bercow seemed to be quite happy to kowtow to President Xi but would not accord the President of our most significant ally even a semblance of the same respect
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    chestnut said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Why mind boggling and why idiots. The NHS and social care is hugely complex and not helped by abusing 50% of voters. The most recent poll had Theresa May more trusted than Corbyn on the NHS
    Because 59% of the very same sample said that the problems were caused by lack of funding. If we want a better health service we will have to pay for it. The Mid Staffs report was published 4 years ago today. Lots of people on here were up in arms about it and using it against the Labour government, but at least Labour increased the funding for health towards what it should be. With the current government's cuts then Mid Staffs will happen again.
    Perhaps the NHS should operate more efficiently?

    All the comparative evidence against other country's healthcare systems show that it is fairly efficient. Efficiency can be increased but Hunt's cutting of £22 billion will make this winter's crisis look like a picnic by the end of this Parliament. OGH has always said that health doesn't impact in elections. It will next time.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    glw said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I pay sufficient in tax for the government to make do.

    It's not the "more money" that bothers me, it's the fact that it's the default solution to fixing problems with public services. The NHS has had a huge increase in spending over the last few decades, and I can't help but wonder if there aren't more fundamental problems with it.
    I accept the NHS is under pressure, because it will always be under pressure. People will always want to use health service to the max.

    I object to emotional blackmail.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    Bercow has to go immediately.If the Commons sticks by him there will have to be a General Election in April.
    Provisional winner of the PB Non-Sequitur Prize
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Why mind boggling and why idiots. The NHS and social care is hugely complex and not helped by abusing 50% of voters. The most recent poll had Theresa May more trusted than Corbyn on the NHS
    Because 59% of the very same sample said that the problems were caused by lack of funding. If we want a better health service we will have to pay for it. The Mid Staffs report was published 4 years ago today. Lots of people on here were up in arms about it and using it against the Labour government, but at least Labour increased the funding for health towards what it should be. With the current government's cuts then Mid Staffs will happen again.
    You have a better chance of making your point if you dont brand tax payers idiots
    I'm afraid that someone who thinks that a service is underfunded and yet won't pay more in tax is an idiot. The fairest way of paying for health is through taxation.
    If you can afford it it is actually insurance, funding through tax should be for those who cannot
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,952
    Ishmael_Z said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Ryan Lizza
    This editorial in @SPIEGEL_English is jaw-dropping. It calls for a German-led international alliance against Trump. https://t.co/rvoSDz2t4R

    Hmm

    It only says what most of us are thinking.

    "Germany must stand up in opposition to the 45th president of the United States and his government. That's difficult enough already for two reasons: Because it is from the Americans that we obtained our liberal democracy in the first place; and because it is unclear how the brute and choleric man on the other side will react to diplomatic pressure."

    I love "brute and choleric man" and I do hope it is how a real German thinks you say that in English, not just a machine translation. But my main reaction is that I now realise that hitherto when I have said Trump scares me, I didn't really mean it. Now I do.
    It's a very appropriate little used word. Thanks for drawing my attention to it. I do quite a bit of work in Germany and they love discovering new English words which are not used literally. I remember describing something as being a bit 'pedestrian' and it became an absolute favourite
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,556
    Sean_F said:

    glw said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I pay sufficient in tax for the government to make do.

    It's not the "more money" that bothers me, it's the fact that it's the default solution to fixing problems with public services. The NHS has had a huge increase in spending over the last few decades, and I can't help but wonder if there aren't more fundamental problems with it.
    I accept the NHS is under pressure, because it will always be under pressure. People will always want to use health service to the max.

    I object to emotional blackmail.
    I look forward to robots replacing the workers.
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Maybe they think they pay sufficient taxes already.
    So Sean I fail to understand. The average person in England pays £2,057 towards their healthcare. Your objection is solely that you pay this in income tax and you would have no qualms in paying this to a private company, or even £2,500 (to bring us up to the European average) or even £3,000 as it becomes less efficient? Or even £10,000 if you have a long term condition. Which is it?
    I think I pay sufficient in tax for the government to make do.
    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Maybe they think they pay sufficient taxes already.
    So Sean I fail to understand. The average person in England pays £2,057 towards their healthcare. Your objection is solely that you pay this in income tax and you would have no qualms in paying this to a private company, or even £2,500 (to bring us up to the European average) or even £3,000 as it becomes less efficient? Or even £10,000 if you have a long term condition. Which is it?
    I think I pay sufficient in tax for the government to make do.
    You've not answered the question. Do you accept we pay less towards healthcare than comparable countries? A straight yes/no will suffice.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    Bercow has to go immediately.If the Commons sticks by him there will have to be a General Election in April.
    Provisional winner of the PB Non-Sequitur Prize
    If he is like this over Trump he will screw Brexit .Sure as night follows day - he has to go now.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,313
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,952

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    Bercow has to go immediately.If the Commons sticks by him there will have to be a General Election in April.
    Provisional winner of the PB Non-Sequitur Prize
    In the under 13 category......
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    By population, but not by military capacity nor size of economy.
  • Options
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    Bercow has to go immediately.If the Commons sticks by him there will have to be a General Election in April.
    Provisional winner of the PB Non-Sequitur Prize
    In the under 13 category......
    You really are an obnoxious prat aren't you
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    By population, but not by military capacity nor size of economy.
    Nor is it a nation. Besides if we wanted to go on population we could say India.
  • Options
    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Why mind boggling and why idiots. The NHS and social care is hugely complex and not helped by abusing 50% of voters. The most recent poll had Theresa May more trusted than Corbyn on the NHS
    Because 59% of the very same sample said that the problems were caused by lack of funding. If we want a better health service we will have to pay for it. The Mid Staffs report was published 4 years ago today. Lots of people on here were up in arms about it and using it against the Labour government, but at least Labour increased the funding for health towards what it should be. With the current government's cuts then Mid Staffs will happen again.
    You have a better chance of making your point if you dont brand tax payers idiots
    I'm afraid that someone who thinks that a service is underfunded and yet won't pay more in tax is an idiot. The fairest way of paying for health is through taxation.
    I refrain from saying who the idiot is here as I do not do insults but other posters can make up their own mind
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    Chris_A said:

    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Maybe they think they pay sufficient taxes already.
    So Sean I fail to understand. The average person in England pays £2,057 towards their healthcare. Your objection is solely that you pay this in income tax and you would have no qualms in paying this to a private company, or even £2,500 (to bring us up to the European average) or even £3,000 as it becomes less efficient? Or even £10,000 if you have a long term condition. Which is it?
    I think I pay sufficient in tax for the government to make do.
    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Maybe they think they pay sufficient taxes already.
    So Sean I fail to understand. The average person in England pays £2,057 towards their healthcare. Your objection is solely that you pay this in income tax and you would have no qualms in paying this to a private company, or even £2,500 (to bring us up to the European average) or even £3,000 as it becomes less efficient? Or even £10,000 if you have a long term condition. Which is it?
    I think I pay sufficient in tax for the government to make do.
    You've not answered the question. Do you accept we pay less towards healthcare than comparable countries? A straight yes/no will suffice.
    That's not the question you asked.

    However, it seems we spend similar amounts per head to Finland, Iceland, and Japan, a bit less than France, a bit more than New Zealand, significantly more than Italy or Spain.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Chris_A said:

    chestnut said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Why mind boggling and why idiots. The NHS and social care is hugely complex and not helped by abusing 50% of voters. The most recent poll had Theresa May more trusted than Corbyn on the NHS
    Because 59% of the very same sample said that the problems were caused by lack of funding. If we want a better health service we will have to pay for it. The Mid Staffs report was published 4 years ago today. Lots of people on here were up in arms about it and using it against the Labour government, but at least Labour increased the funding for health towards what it should be. With the current government's cuts then Mid Staffs will happen again.
    Perhaps the NHS should operate more efficiently?

    All the comparative evidence against other country's healthcare systems show that it is fairly efficient. Efficiency can be increased but Hunt's cutting of £22 billion will make this winter's crisis look like a picnic by the end of this Parliament. OGH has always said that health doesn't impact in elections. It will next time.
    Closing 15% of Englands A and E units will hit a lot of market towns in marginal constituencies. The downgrading of the hospital in Copeland is no vote winner for the Tories.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252

    Chris_A said:

    chestnut said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Why mind boggling and why idiots. The NHS and social care is hugely complex and not helped by abusing 50% of voters. The most recent poll had Theresa May more trusted than Corbyn on the NHS
    Because 59% of the very same sample said that the problems were caused by lack of funding. If we want a better health service we will have to pay for it. The Mid Staffs report was published 4 years ago today. Lots of people on here were up in arms about it and using it against the Labour government, but at least Labour increased the funding for health towards what it should be. With the current government's cuts then Mid Staffs will happen again.
    Perhaps the NHS should operate more efficiently?

    All the comparative evidence against other country's healthcare systems show that it is fairly efficient. Efficiency can be increased but Hunt's cutting of £22 billion will make this winter's crisis look like a picnic by the end of this Parliament. OGH has always said that health doesn't impact in elections. It will next time.
    Closing 15% of Englands A and E units will hit a lot of market towns in marginal constituencies. The downgrading of the hospital in Copeland is no vote winner for the Tories.
    It is the local Labour council which is opening a brand new office and shutting local social care centres
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,313

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    By population, but not by military capacity nor size of economy.
    In terms of importance to us, both in physical and economic security.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    edited February 2017

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland, Jordan etc are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,188
    chestnut said:

    He's calling them out for an undervalued currency - which is true.

    Leaving aside the fact that trying to keep the Euro down is an ECB policy via Draghi (as opposed to a specifically German policy) and a welcome change from the strong Euro policy under Trichet, from memory other countries trying to keep their respective currencies weak include the UK via Carney and Japan via Kuroda. In the latter case that has been official policy since Shinzo Abe was elected as Japan PM. It also has to be said that Trump is trying to talk the dollar down.

    So, given that the UK is doing it by neglect since Brexit, Japan has been doing it aggressively for at least four years, and the USA is now doing it...why are you criticising Germany for doing it? Especially since (as explained above) they actually aren't.

  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,952
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,051
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    So we dump our Speaker cos of criticism from a lawmaker of a foreign power. How patriotic! That's truly taking back control.
    Not just criticism, a complete refusal to respect the State Visit and even provide an equal honour accorded to the President of China and the Emir of Kuwait. Mogg would be an excellent candidate for a coup, respected across the House for his knowledge of Parliament, would willingly allow Trump to speak and would also likely increase ratings on CSPAN too!
    Nonsense. He is a buffoon who looks like and acts like Walter the Softy and would make us a target for ridicule around the world. I am interested in which other foreign Nations should have a veto on who is our Speaker?
    Rubbish, he is the image of what much of the world has about the best of British parliamentary and upper class tradition. Bercow seemed to be quite happy to kowtow to President Xi but would not accord the President of our most significant ally even a semblance of the same respect
    Not arguing about Xi. We have wrongly hosted plenty of unpalatable people. I quote:

    "GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!"

    You are suggesting replacing one of the keystones of our constitution because a GOP congressman disapproves. The unquestioned authority of the Speaker was hard won in a Civil War in which c10% of the population died. That is Parliamentary Sovereignty.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    So we dump our Speaker cos of criticism from a lawmaker of a foreign power. How patriotic! That's truly taking back control.
    Not just criticism, a complete refusal to respect the State Visit and even provide an equal honour accorded to the President of China and the Emir of Kuwait. Mogg would be an excellent candidate for a coup, respected across the House for his knowledge of Parliament, would willingly allow Trump to speak and would also likely increase ratings on CSPAN too!
    Nonsense. He is a buffoon who looks like and acts like Walter the Softy and would make us a target for ridicule around the world. I am interested in which other foreign Nations should have a veto on who is our Speaker?
    Rubbish, he is the image of what much of the world has about the best of British parliamentary and upper class tradition. Bercow seemed to be quite happy to kowtow to President Xi but would not accord the President of our most significant ally even a semblance of the same respect
    Not arguing about Xi. We have wrongly hosted plenty of unpalatable people. I quote:

    "GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!"

    You are suggesting replacing one of the keystones of our constitution because a GOP congressman disapproves. The unquestioned authority of the Speaker was hard won in a Civil War in which c10% of the population died. That is Parliamentary Sovereignty.
    Not just the majority in Congress but the POTUS and there is a slight difference between defying an autocratic monarch who wanted to rule by divine right on behalf of Parliamentary sovereignty and refusing to allow one speech by the most powerful man in the world just to make a petty point!
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,925
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    So what? He is also the most divisive, unstable, lying leader in the west right now and the Brexiters are stuck with desperately needing a good trade deal from him - it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    Bercow has to go immediately.If the Commons sticks by him there will have to be a General Election in April.
    Why?
  • Options
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    So we dump our Speaker cos of criticism from a lawmaker of a foreign power. How patriotic! That's truly taking back control.
    No we dump our Speaker because he's betrayed everything his role stands for which is impartiality and didn't even have the courtesy of discussing this with his Lords counterpart first.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,952
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load of demonstrable crap.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    edited February 2017
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load of demonstrable crap.
    We define our close allies by how many tourists visit each of our countries? If you are going to do that, at least correct for the cost involved at getting to each of the destinations!
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Maybe they think they pay sufficient taxes already.
    So Sean I fail to understand. The average person in England pays £2,057 towards their healthcare. Your objection is solely that you pay this in income tax and you would have no qualms in paying this to a private company, or even £2,500 (to bring us up to the European average) or even £3,000 as it becomes less efficient? Or even £10,000 if you have a long term condition. Which is it?
    I think I pay sufficient in tax for the government to make do.
    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    Sean_F said:

    Chris_A said:

    I bet for all that Jeremy Hunt bangs on about duty of candour and support for whistle blowers that Kevin McGee has been crossed off his Christmas card list after tonight's BBC news report.

    The mind boggling thing is that 50% think that raising income tax to fund the NHS sufficiently is not appropriate. Where the hell do these idiots think the money is coming from?

    Maybe they think they pay sufficient taxes already.
    So Sean I fail to understand. The average person in England pays £2,057 towards their healthcare. Your objection is solely that you pay this in income tax and you would have no qualms in paying this to a private company, or even £2,500 (to bring us up to the European average) or even £3,000 as it becomes less efficient? Or even £10,000 if you have a long term condition. Which is it?
    I think I pay sufficient in tax for the government to make do.
    You've not answered the question. Do you accept we pay less towards healthcare than comparable countries? A straight yes/no will suffice.
    That's not the question you asked.

    However, it seems we spend similar amounts per head to Finland, Iceland, and Japan, a bit less than France, a bit more than New Zealand, significantly more than Italy or Spain.
    Well we pay 9% less than France (approximately £11 billion per year) - a not insignificant amount.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,322
    edited February 2017
    Govt won Commons vote so easily because:

    - 4 Lab MPs voted with Govt - Hoey, Hopkins, Stringer, Stuart
    - Only 1 Con MP voted against - Clarke
    - Govt also had support of 7 DUP, 2 UUP, 1 UKIP
    - More opposition abstentions - 8 Con, 11 Lab, 1 LD, 1 SNP (includes tellers)

    Result: Easy Govt win - by 49.

  • Options
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    Bercow has to go immediately.If the Commons sticks by him there will have to be a General Election in April.
    Why?
    Because May will have lost control of the Commons and will not be able to get Brexit through with him as Speaker.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Elected by a not very good electoral system and a very clear minority of the electorate. In fact, very similar to Mrs May and her Conservatives, who were returned with the support of only 24% of the registered electors.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,051

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    So we dump our Speaker cos of criticism from a lawmaker of a foreign power. How patriotic! That's truly taking back control.
    No we dump our Speaker because he's betrayed everything his role stands for which is impartiality and didn't even have the courtesy of discussing this with his Lords counterpart first.
    That is an acceptable argument for me. The Speaker sits at the discretion of the Commons.
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,925
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    Only in your opinion. Millions of us would prefer our EU neighbours to Trump's America right now, you may not like the fact but it remains the case nevertheless.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    So we dump our Speaker cos of criticism from a lawmaker of a foreign power. How patriotic! That's truly taking back control.
    No we dump our Speaker because he's betrayed everything his role stands for which is impartiality and didn't even have the courtesy of discussing this with his Lords counterpart first.
    Suggest Bercow is playing his pathetic student union antics because he's looking for a job after the speaker.

    GE in May and he knows he's out on his ear.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    Yet, just before and after the ref we were told they would roll out the red carpet because they could not "afford" to antagonise the UK as they exported so much to us.
  • Options
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load of demonstrable crap.
    So the fact that France is a bit closer than New Zealand is now a measure of how much they love us? Are you a spoof account?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    MikeL said:

    Govt won Commons vote so easily because:

    - 4 Lab MPs voted with Govt - Hoey, Hopkins, Stringer, Stuart
    - Only 1 Con MP voted against - Clarke
    - Govt also had support of 7 DUP, 2 UUP, 1 UKIP
    - More opposition abstentions - 8 Con, 11 Lab, 1 LD, 1 SNP (includes tellers)

    Result: Easy Govt win - by 49.

    Which vote was this? I've not been keeping track of things recently.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    So what? He is also the most divisive, unstable, lying leader in the west right now and the Brexiters are stuck with desperately needing a good trade deal from him - it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.
    We already have a healthy surplus with the US, a good trade deal would be a bonus but Trump has shown himself willing to back Brexit UK and it is rude to disrespect that even if Remoaners want to make a petty point
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,051




    Not just criticism, a complete refusal to respect the State Visit and even provide an equal honour accorded to the President of China and the Emir of Kuwait. Mogg would be an excellent candidate for a coup, respected across the House for his knowledge of Parliament, would willingly allow Trump to speak and would also likely increase ratings on CSPAN too!

    Nonsense. He is a buffoon who looks like and acts like Walter the Softy and would make us a target for ridicule around the world. I am interested in which other foreign Nations should have a veto on who is our Speaker?

    Rubbish, he is the image of what much of the world has about the best of British parliamentary and upper class tradition. Bercow seemed to be quite happy to kowtow to President Xi but would not accord the President of our most significant ally even a semblance of the same respect

    Not arguing about Xi. We have wrongly hosted plenty of unpalatable people. I quote:

    "GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!"

    You are suggesting replacing one of the keystones of our constitution because a GOP congressman disapproves. The unquestioned authority of the Speaker was hard won in a Civil War in which c10% of the population died. That is Parliamentary Sovereignty.

    Not just the majority in Congress but the POTUS and there is a slight difference between defying an autocratic monarch who wanted to rule by divine right on behalf of Parliamentary sovereignty and refusing to allow one speech by the most powerful man in the world just to make a petty point!

    Have a vote of no confidence in the Speaker. Fine. Justifying it because of the representative of a foreign government's opinion not so much.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    Only in your opinion. Millions of us would prefer our EU neighbours to Trump's America right now, you may not like the fact but it remains the case nevertheless.
    Many PB Tories have found their fascist. Now they are waiting for Le Pen. That will make their day.
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    FPT:

    And the news from Copeland is going to sew up the PB trainspotter vote:

    https://twitter.com/GillTroughton/status/828600983160758272

    I can't help feeling that the pledge would be more effective if engraved on a big lump of granite - especially given the constituency.
    They travelled by train? True 21st century 'progressives' don't need anything other than the power of their own sanctimonious desire to take offence on behalf of others to propel them.

    Some weird s**t happening in Eastern Europe. Belarus..curious, yet another opposition politician in Russia with a case of illness due to intoxication of an unknown substance....
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load of demonstrable crap.
    As Paris is a damn bit closer than Auckland. Where do most British choose to emigrate? Australia. In any case I said the EU not France
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    By population, but not by military capacity nor size of economy.
    Defence Spending ($ million 2016)

    USA: 664
    Europe: 238 (includes non-EU)
    UK: 60
    France:43
    Germany: 40
    Italy: 22
    Spain: 11

    http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160704_160704-pr2016-116.pdf
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Elected by a not very good electoral system and a very clear minority of the electorate. In fact, very similar to Mrs May and her Conservatives, who were returned with the support of only 24% of the registered electors.
    Elected by 30 out of 52 states. Leave of course won 17 million votes, more than any governing party in any general election in postwar history
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    Only in your opinion. Millions of us would prefer our EU neighbours to Trump's America right now, you may not like the fact but it remains the case nevertheless.
    Yes, well 17 million decided the EU was not our natural ally which was why Brexit won the referendum!
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,952
    edited February 2017

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load of demonstrable crap.
    So the fact that France is a bit closer than New Zealand is now a measure of how much they love us? Are you a spoof account?
    The British spent 87,000,000 nights in France last year. Why should anyone assume we are more friendly with New Zealand and Israel which the overwheming majority have never even visited? If you know better then I apologize. Am I a spoof account?
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,322
    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Govt won Commons vote so easily because:

    - 4 Lab MPs voted with Govt - Hoey, Hopkins, Stringer, Stuart
    - Only 1 Con MP voted against - Clarke
    - Govt also had support of 7 DUP, 2 UUP, 1 UKIP
    - More opposition abstentions - 8 Con, 11 Lab, 1 LD, 1 SNP (includes tellers)

    Result: Easy Govt win - by 49.

    Which vote was this? I've not been keeping track of things recently.
    Lab amendment re "Parliamentary scrutiny" of Brexit negotiations.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    Yet, just before and after the ref we were told they would roll out the red carpet because they could not "afford" to antagonise the UK as they exported so much to us.
    I would not believe everything Boris says but of course in the tough negotiations to come the amount EU nations export to the UK will be a factor
  • Options
    2nd vote tonight - Government majority 57
  • Options
    Polly in Stoke:

    The Stoke Central byelection hangs in the balance between Labour and Ukip: for either, losing on 23 February will be a calamity, causing an existential crisis – and I use that word carefully. Watch the avalanche of political obituaries for the loser.

    For Ukip the stakes could not be higher. Lose here and the party is well and truly dead: its new leader, and its candidate here, Paul Nuttall buried on his first outing. Byelections are the great hope of insurgent parties, when voters can indulge in risk-free protest.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/06/stoke-central-byelection-ukip-labour
  • Options
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load of demonstrable crap.
    So the fact that France is a bit closer than New Zealand is now a measure of how much they love us? Are you a spoof account?
    The British spent 87,000,000 nights in France last year. Why should anyone assume we are more friendly with New Zealand and Israel which the overwheming majority have never even visited? If you know better then I apologize.
    What are you saying? That because France is far closer and obviously much cheaper to visit, and therefore we go there more often, that that proves that France is a closer ally than New Zealand? Are you serious? Even though we have a shared heritage, culture and language?
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    BrexitCentral ‏@BrexitCentral
    MPs defeat a Labour amndnt to the Article 50 Bill that would have involved statutorily consulting devolved administrations by 333 to 276
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,925
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    So what? He is also the most divisive, unstable, lying leader in the west right now and the Brexiters are stuck with desperately needing a good trade deal from him - it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.
    We already have a healthy surplus with the US, a good trade deal would be a bonus but Trump has shown himself willing to back Brexit UK and it is rude to disrespect that even if Remoaners want to make a petty point
    We actually had a trade deficit with the US in 2016 and that is hardly going to improve with Trump's America First policy is it? You have to earn respect and Trump has vilified and abused anyone that opposes him so he has zero right to any respect in return.
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,925
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    Only in your opinion. Millions of us would prefer our EU neighbours to Trump's America right now, you may not like the fact but it remains the case nevertheless.
    Yes, well 17 million decided the EU was not our natural ally which was why Brexit won the referendum!
    and there was me believing all that guff from the Leave campaign that although they wanted to leave the EU they wanted to remain on the closest possible friendly terms with the EU. Another load of lying cobblers then
  • Options

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load of demonstrable crap.
    So the fact that France is a bit closer than New Zealand is now a measure of how much they love us? Are you a spoof account?
    The British spent 87,000,000 nights in France last year. Why should anyone assume we are more friendly with New Zealand and Israel which the overwheming majority have never even visited? If you know better then I apologize.
    What are you saying? That because France is far closer and obviously much cheaper to visit, and therefore we go there more often, that that proves that France is a closer ally than New Zealand? Are you serious? Even though we have a shared heritage, culture and language?
    Don't be mean - all Remainers have left is straw clutching......
  • Options
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    So what? He is also the most divisive, unstable, lying leader in the west right now and the Brexiters are stuck with desperately needing a good trade deal from him - it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.
    We already have a healthy surplus with the US, a good trade deal would be a bonus but Trump has shown himself willing to back Brexit UK and it is rude to disrespect that even if Remoaners want to make a petty point
    We actually had a trade deficit with the US in 2016 and that is hardly going to improve with Trump's America First policy is it? You have to earn respect and Trump has vilified and abused anyone that opposes him so he has zero right to any respect in return.
    In what respect has Trump vilified or abused the UK?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,952

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load of demonstrable crap.
    So the fact that France is a bit closer than New Zealand is now a measure of how much they love us? Are you a spoof account?
    The British spent 87,000,000 nights in France last year. Why should anyone assume we are more friendly with New Zealand and Israel which the overwheming majority have never even visited? If you know better then I apologize.
    What are you saying? That because France is far closer and obviously much cheaper to visit, and therefore we go there more often, that that proves that France is a closer ally than New Zealand? Are you serious? Even though we have a shared heritage, culture and language?
    I would say so yes. There are about 300,000 British people who live in france. I suppose there are some who feel kinship with the Israelis and the New Zealanders rather than the Europeans but i would say they're in a minority
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Brits go to France for the sun, sea, ski, Sauvignon Blanche and Sancerre - not to meet the French.

    Well maybe Mr Farage does...
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,925

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    So what? He is also the most divisive, unstable, lying leader in the west right now and the Brexiters are stuck with desperately needing a good trade deal from him - it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.
    We already have a healthy surplus with the US, a good trade deal would be a bonus but Trump has shown himself willing to back Brexit UK and it is rude to disrespect that even if Remoaners want to make a petty point
    We actually had a trade deficit with the US in 2016 and that is hardly going to improve with Trump's America First policy is it? You have to earn respect and Trump has vilified and abused anyone that opposes him so he has zero right to any respect in return.
    In what respect has Trump vilified or abused the UK?
    Where did I say he had?
  • Options
    TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited February 2017
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK ae moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load rap.
    So the fact that France is a bit closer than New Zealand is now a measure of how much they love us? Are you a spoof account?
    The British spent 87,000,000 nights in France last year. Why should anyone assume we are more friendly with New Zealand and Israel which the overwheming majority have never even visited? If you know better then I apologize.
    What are you saying? That because France is far closer and obviously much cheaper to visit, and therefore we go there more often, that that proves that France is a closer ally than New Zealand? Are you serious? Even though we have a shared heritage, culture and language?
    I would say so yes. There are about 300,000 British people who live in france. I suppose there are some who feel kinship with the Israelis and the New Zealanders rather than the Europeans but i would say they're in a minority
    We're just gonna have to agree to disagree. I've got far more relatives in NZ and Oz than in mainland Europe. Although Israel may as well be on another planet for me, I admit.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    12,000,000 British visited France last year less than 300,000 visited New Zealand. You've just written a load of demonstrable crap.
    So the fact that France is a bit closer than New Zealand is now a measure of how much they love us? Are you a spoof account?
    The British spent 87,000,000 nights in France last year. Why should anyone assume we are more friendly with New Zealand and Israel which the overwheming majority have never even visited? If you know better then I apologize. Am I a spoof account?
    I am fond of visiting France but New Zealand fought with us in both World Wars and indeed a New Zealander fought alongside British troops in the Falklands War. France sent Exocet missiles to Argentina
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    So what? He is also the most divisive, unstable, lying leader in the west right now and the Brexiters are stuck with desperately needing a good trade deal from him - it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.
    We already have a healthy surplus with the US, a good trade deal would be a bonus but Trump has shown himself willing to back Brexit UK and it is rude to disrespect that even if Remoaners want to make a petty point
    We actually had a trade deficit with the US in 2016 and that is hardly going to improve with Trump's America First policy is it? You have to earn respect and Trump has vilified and abused anyone that opposes him so he has zero right to any respect in return.
    Even in 2016 our balance of trade with the US was far more favourable than with the EU and Trump's policy is focused at Mexico and China not the UK. Trump has shown respect to the British peoples' Leave vote unlike some world leaders and he deserves respect for that
  • Options
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    So what? He is also the most divisive, unstable, lying leader in the west right now and the Brexiters are stuck with desperately needing a good trade deal from him - it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry.
    We already have a healthy surplus with the US, a good trade deal would be a bonus but Trump has shown himself willing to back Brexit UK and it is rude to disrespect that even if Remoaners want to make a petty point
    We actually had a trade deficit with the US in 2016 and that is hardly going to improve with Trump's America First policy is it? You have to earn respect and Trump has vilified and abused anyone that opposes him so he has zero right to any respect in return.
    In what respect has Trump vilified or abused the UK?
    Where did I say he had?
    You implied he had no right to respect "in return" when talking of the UK/US trade deficit.That was what was suggested.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,252
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    Only in your opinion. Millions of us would prefer our EU neighbours to Trump's America right now, you may not like the fact but it remains the case nevertheless.
    Yes, well 17 million decided the EU was not our natural ally which was why Brexit won the referendum!
    and there was me believing all that guff from the Leave campaign that although they wanted to leave the EU they wanted to remain on the closest possible friendly terms with the EU. Another load of lying cobblers then
    Given Verhofstadt and Juncker have been as stubborn post referendum as they were before hardly surprising
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    BrexitCentral ‏@BrexitCentral
    MPs defeat SNP bid to force Govt to agree UK-wide negotiation strategy with ministers from devolved administrations by 332 to 62
  • Options
    3rd Vote - Government majority 270
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,313

    BrexitCentral ‏@BrexitCentral
    MPs defeat SNP bid to force Govt to agree UK-wide negotiation strategy with ministers from devolved administrations by 332 to 62

    Alea iacta est.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    BrexitCentral ‏@BrexitCentral
    MPs defeat Plaid Cymru amdnt that would've required Govt to report to Welsh Assembly on effect on Welsh finances of Brexit by 330 to 267
  • Options
    So, the SNP whip asks the Deputy Speaker if they can have one more SNP speak briefly.

    SNP MP stands up and says she'll speak as long as she wants.

    Deputy Speaker thanks her for her contribution & calls Govt speaker.

    Salmond blows a gasket.....
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,188
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    Ha Ha! 17 million British people have just voted against the EU, we are not about to go to war with Brussels yet but the idea Juncker and Verhofstadt are the UK's closest allies is farcical. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, the US, India, Israel, Switzerland are all closer to the UK at the moment than the EU
    How do you work that out? Just intuition?
    No, statement of the obvious. The EU elite wants to 'punish' the UK, at the moment they are anything but an ally.
    Only in your opinion. Millions of us would prefer our EU neighbours to Trump's America right now, you may not like the fact but it remains the case nevertheless.
    Yes, well 17 million decided the EU was not our natural ally which was why Brexit won the referendum!
    and there was me believing all that guff from the Leave campaign that although they wanted to leave the EU they wanted to remain on the closest possible friendly terms with the EU. Another load of lying cobblers then
    Given Verhofstadt and Juncker have been as stubborn post referendum as they were before hardly surprising
    "failing and blaming"
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,313

    So, the SNP whip asks the Deputy Speaker if they can have one more SNP speak briefly.

    SNP MP stands up and says she'll speak as long as she wants.

    Deputy Speaker thanks her for her contribution & calls Govt speaker.

    Salmond blows a gasket.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHAyucmey3c
  • Options
    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819

    Roger said:



    I would say so yes. There are about 300,000 British people who live in france. I suppose there are some who feel kinship with the Israelis and the New Zealanders rather than the Europeans but i would say they're in a minority

    We're just gonna have to agree to disagree. I've got far more relatives in NZ and Oz than in mainland Europe. Although Israel may as well be on another planet for me, I admit.
    It's probably fairly accurate to say that the divide between feeling culturally closer to Europe, the Commonwealth, or the USA falls roughly along leave-remain lines, a small majority in favour of commonwealth and the USA. Maybe call it 55-45?

    I've lived in the USA and France, and while I enjoyed my time in both, I feel closer to, and prefer, France. But there are arguments in favour of both. Clearly we have the shared history, legal institutions, language, and culture (moreso for the commonwealth than the USA on the culture one I think). On the other hand we also have a far longer shared history with Europe, for better or worse, and there are a lot of cultural aspects we share more with Europe than with the USA, and it's been a while since the commonwealth had the kind of importance to us politically as either Europe or the USA (though I am all open to the idea of developing the CANZUK thing post-brexit, if it can come to anything).
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,029
    Blimey!
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    GOP Congressman Joe Wilson calls Bercow's decision 'a slap in the face of the Republican Party' especially after Churchill's bust was returned to the Oval Office and the positive meeting between May and Trump. Time to dump Bercow for the Moggster I think!

    It's obvious that May is desperate for a US trade deal and is willing to pay the price of cosying up to Trump to get it. Other people are free to be honest about their opinions of him and frankly I don't give a toss that some GOP congressman is offended that some people don't like the President his party has landed us with.
    Trump is the President of our largest ally, elected by the American people themselves
    Post Brexit our largest ally will be the EU.
    By population, but not by military capacity nor size of economy.
    Defence Spending ($ million 2016)

    USA: 664
    Europe: 238 (includes non-EU)
    UK: 60
    France:43
    Germany: 40
    Italy: 22
    Spain: 11

    http://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_07/20160704_160704-pr2016-116.pdf
    Clearly UK should cut its spending on defence and divert it to the NHS. On the one hand, we are saying the threat comes from terrorists, on the other we are making submarines which fires missiles which head in the wrong direction. Keystone Cops comes to mind.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,188
    edited February 2017
    HYUFD said:

    I am fond of visiting France but New Zealand fought with us in both World Wars and indeed a New Zealander fought alongside British troops in the Falklands War. France sent Exocet missiles to Argentina

    It's never as simple as that. The Argentinian air forces included French, Israeli, German, Italian, Brazilian, American and British aircraft firing French, Israeli and American missiles and dropping British and American bombs

    Incidentally, the British also used French missiles.
  • Options

    So, the SNP whip asks the Deputy Speaker if they can have one more SNP speak briefly.

    SNP MP stands up and says she'll speak as long as she wants.

    Deputy Speaker thanks her for her contribution & calls Govt speaker.

    Salmond blows a gasket.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHAyucmey3c
    A poorly choreographed stunt. Cherry panicked, fluffed her lines, and dried up prematurely, thus throwing off Salmond's timing. Eck's genuine fury was due to the incompetence of his straight woman.
  • Options

    So, the SNP whip asks the Deputy Speaker if they can have one more SNP speak briefly.

    SNP MP stands up and says she'll speak as long as she wants.

    Deputy Speaker thanks her for her contribution & calls Govt speaker.

    Salmond blows a gasket.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHAyucmey3c
    A poorly choreographed stunt. Cherry panicked, fluffed her lines, and dried up prematurely, thus throwing off Salmond's timing. Eck's genuine fury was due to the incompetence of his straight woman.
    What did he expect, putting Cherry "Scotland is England's biggest export market" up?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38678641

    Sorry love, no it isn't, by a very substantial margin. England, on the other hand IS Scotland's biggest export market, by a very substantial margin....
  • Options

    So, the SNP whip asks the Deputy Speaker if they can have one more SNP speak briefly.

    SNP MP stands up and says she'll speak as long as she wants.

    Deputy Speaker thanks her for her contribution & calls Govt speaker.

    Salmond blows a gasket.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHAyucmey3c
    A poorly choreographed stunt. Cherry panicked, fluffed her lines, and dried up prematurely, thus throwing off Salmond's timing. Eck's genuine fury was due to the incompetence of his straight woman.
    What did he expect, putting Cherry "Scotland is England's biggest export market" up?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38678641

    Sorry love, no it isn't, by a very substantial margin. England, on the other hand IS Scotland's biggest export market, by a very substantial margin....
    He picked the wrong Cherry for his prank.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38762034

    More educated voted Remain. Less educated voted Leave. The less educated wins.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am fond of visiting France but New Zealand fought with us in both World Wars and indeed a New Zealander fought alongside British troops in the Falklands War. France sent Exocet missiles to Argentina

    It's never as simple as that. The Argentinian air forces included French, Israeli, German, Italian, Brazilian, American and British aircraft firing French, Israeli and American missiles and dropping British and American bombs

    Incidentally, the British also used French missiles.
    The Exocet is remembered because it actually worked.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,188
    surbiton said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    I am fond of visiting France but New Zealand fought with us in both World Wars and indeed a New Zealander fought alongside British troops in the Falklands War. France sent Exocet missiles to Argentina

    It's never as simple as that. The Argentinian air forces included French, Israeli, German, Italian, Brazilian, American and British aircraft firing French, Israeli and American missiles and dropping British and American bombs

    Incidentally, the British also used French missiles.
    The Exocet is remembered because it actually worked.
    So did the AS12s
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Is there anything more bizarre than the Germans complaining about the United States while simultaneously expecting that country to defend them from Russia?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,188
    AndyJS said:

    Is there anything more bizarre than the Germans complaining about the United States while simultaneously expecting that country to defend them from Russia?

    On any other day that might seem strange...
  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited February 2017
    The most successful anti ship missile of the Falklands War in terms of hit rate was probably the Sea Skua.
This discussion has been closed.