Such bad luck for the UKIP leader - fancy moving in to sleep on a mattress on the floor only just after the story had broken. Clearly, if Crick had left it just a couple more days Mr Nuttall would have been firmly ensconced and it would all be a complete non-story.
Putting party politics aside, do you really think this matters? In real life I don't believe I know anyone who would think so, and anyone who admitted they did would get ripped for being a nerd!
Most people think breaking the speed limit is fine. But the law is the law. Does it matter? I have no idea.. The interview that Nuttall did with Crick in which he denied everything was quite amusing as he was lying through his teeth, and it does show how amateur an operation UKIP runs. Of course, that would make a Labour defeat even more humiliating for Corbyn.
I have to say reading the Labour Candidates views about the glorious leader. Lab could do without yet another Ultra Blairite in Parliament.
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
If he broke the law he broke the law and he cannot complain if he receives a proscribed punishment. If the law itself is stupid on this one, if it is really rigid, petty or unfair, well, unfortunate for him, but he and UKIP should never have risked something like this being an issue. Whether others are making the offense seem more or less of an affront than it is seems pretty irrelevant.
Can I ask, what exactly was the rationale for thinking Paul Nutall was "Labour's nightmare"? Was it ONLY that he had a Northern accent? Do the commentariat really have such a patronising view of Northerners that they thought that would be enough to sway it?
My favourite was when Stoke was described as a Northern seat.
DAFUQ!
It's a grim urban hellhole where people speak oddly so satisfies pretty much every test but physical location.
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
If he broke the law he broke the law and he cannot complain if he receives a proscribed punishment.
How many by-elections for exceeding the expenses limit have there been so far?
I'm no UKIP voter but the sudden avalanche of attempts to win on a technicality because the pro-EU lobby are worried their candidate can't win the actual vote looks unseemly and will, at best, be counterproductive with the voters of Stoke.
Especially when it comes from those who, if they are consistent in their beliefs, hold the view that UKIP deserves 100 MPs based on its 2015 vote share, not 1. Not that most PR-enthusiasts seem to have clocked that the result of PR in 2015 was Nigel as Deputy PM.
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
If he broke the law he broke the law and he cannot complain if he receives a proscribed punishment.
How many by-elections for exceeding the expenses limit have there been so far?
I fully believe if those rules are proven to have been broken, and it looks like they have plenty of times, and the rules state the elections should be voided, then we should have lots. If the breaches are being overlooked and ignored, that is just plain wrong; if the rules are not reasonable anymore, then they should be changed, not ignored.
I don't care if UKIP would win any redone vote - on the contrary, I've wanted UKIP to win more seats for along time, as I'd like a lot more parties with many seats in Parliament - but failure to prosecute cases for other types of breach does not mean if, indeed, there has been a breach here that it should be ignored.
If anything perhaps we can hope the outrage that only when the UKIP candidate won did it get picked up and progressed, will lead to more sustained progress on enforcement elsewhere with other breaches.
Does anyone understand LeaveEU's methodology . What does " Our polling method consists of a high volume randomised sample and the use of sophisticated AI social media techniques " actually mean when translated into English .
Maybe it means "unlike those paranoid southerners, people in Stoke still answer the phone if you call them"?
I suppose all of Manchester is looking forward to being ruled by an Everton supporter.
Much more palatable than an LFC one! And no, Burnham is not a Scouser, he's a woollyback, who serve the useful purpose of preventing us from living next to Scousers!
The Mayor of London supported Pakistan in the cricket as a boy, hasn't done him any harm
Wasn't Tony Banks a Chelsea fan and MP for West Ham?
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
If he broke the law he broke the law and he cannot complain if he receives a proscribed punishment.
How many by-elections for exceeding the expenses limit have there been so far?
I fully believe if those rules are proven to have been broken, and it looks like they have plenty of times, and the rules state the elections should be voided, then we should have lots. If the breaches are being overlooked and ignored, that is just plain wrong; if the rules are not reasonable anymore, then they should be changed, not ignored.
I don't care if UKIP would win any redone vote - on the contrary, I've wanted UKIP to win more seats for along time, as I'd like a lot more parties with many seats in Parliament - but failure to prosecute cases for other types of breach does not mean if, indeed, there has been a breach here that it should be ignored.
If anything perhaps we can hope the outrage that only when the UKIP candidate won did it get picked up and progressed, will lead to more sustained progress on enforcement elsewhere with other breaches.
Unless of course you claim that the rules were too difficult to understand as per Fiona Jones. In which case its case dismissed. Apparently when it comes to MPs ignorance of the law is a defence.
Jones should have been disqualified. If things are proven to be as they appear then so should Nuttall.
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
If he broke the law he broke the law and he cannot complain if he receives a proscribed punishment. If the law itself is stupid on this one, if it is really rigid, petty or unfair, well, unfortunate for him, but he and UKIP should never have risked something like this being an issue. Whether others are making the offense seem more or less of an affront than it is seems pretty irrelevant.
If he broke the law then he deserves a penalty. That being said banning him from elected office for a technical breach that doesn't appear to have an impact on the result would fly in the face of natural justice.
Are there juries in electoral courts? This would strike me as the sort of case a jury would find him "not guilty" on the grounds that the law is an ass. Or a judge could issue a conditional discharge rather than disbarring him (do they have that flexibility?)
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
If he broke the law he broke the law and he cannot complain if he receives a proscribed punishment.
How many by-elections for exceeding the expenses limit have there been so far?
I fully believe if those rules are proven to have been broken, and it looks like they have plenty of times, and the rules state the elections should be voided, then we should have lots. If the breaches are being overlooked and ignored, that is just plain wrong; if the rules are not reasonable anymore, then they should be changed, not ignored.
I don't care if UKIP would win any redone vote - on the contrary, I've wanted UKIP to win more seats for along time, as I'd like a lot more parties with many seats in Parliament - but failure to prosecute cases for other types of breach does not mean if, indeed, there has been a breach here that it should be ignored.
If anything perhaps we can hope the outrage that only when the UKIP candidate won did it get picked up and progressed, will lead to more sustained progress on enforcement elsewhere with other breaches.
Unless of course you claim that the rules were too difficult to understand as per Fiona Jones. In which case its case dismissed. Apparently when it comes to MPs ignorance of the law is a defence.
Jones should have been disqualified. If things are proven to be as they appear then so should Nuttall.
Does anyone understand LeaveEU's methodology . What does " Our polling method consists of a high volume randomised sample and the use of sophisticated AI social media techniques " actually mean when translated into English .
We took a few guesses then picked the one that looked most promising for us.
Does anyone understand LeaveEU's methodology . What does " Our polling method consists of a high volume randomised sample and the use of sophisticated AI social media techniques " actually mean when translated into English .
Maybe it means "unlike those paranoid southerners, people in Stoke still answer the phone if you call them"?
I am really worried UKIP will win now. Apparently 65 Oxford Street hasnt even got a phone.
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
If he broke the law he broke the law and he cannot complain if he receives a proscribed punishment.
How many by-elections for exceeding the expenses limit have there been so far?
I'm no UKIP voter but the sudden avalanche of attempts to win on a technicality because the pro-EU lobby are worried their candidate can't win the actual vote looks unseemly and will, at best, be counterproductive with the voters of Stoke.
Especially when it comes from those who, if they are consistent in their beliefs, hold the view that UKIP deserves 100 MPs based on its 2015 vote share, not 1. Not that most PR-enthusiasts seem to have clocked that the result of PR in 2015 was Nigel as Deputy PM.
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
If he broke the law he broke the law and he cannot complain if he receives a proscribed punishment. If the law itself is stupid on this one, if it is really rigid, petty or unfair, well, unfortunate for him, but he and UKIP should never have risked something like this being an issue. Whether others are making the offense seem more or less of an affront than it is seems pretty irrelevant.
If he broke the law then he deserves a penalty. That being said banning him from elected office for a technical breach that doesn't appear to have an impact on the result would fly in the face of natural justice.
Are there juries in electoral courts? This would strike me as the sort of case a jury would find him "not guilty" on the grounds that the law is an ass. Or a judge could issue a conditional discharge rather than disbarring him (do they have that flexibility?)
I confess i do not know. In terms of whether a technical breach of that nature deserves to void the result being in the face of natural justice, I'm ambivalent - presumably it will have been deliberate if that level of punishment was mandated (if indeed it is mandatory - maybe there is a level of discretion in the circumstances and nature of the breach) for such a breach, in which case it was presumably felt the importance of candidates for electoral office to pursue all matters correctly was so important that even technical breaches required a severe punishment.
That may be a harsh punishment, if that is indeed what the law demands, but I don't know that it is unreasonably harsh. It should not be difficult to fill in an address correctly, and holding electoral office, especially such a significant electoral office, could be said to demand stringent adherence to such rules (acknowledging we know there will be failures in many places).
If the procedures are needlessly confusing and the penalties harsh, then if Nuttall did breach and is punished, maybe it will lead to an improvement - which would be better than the appearance of the expenses situation, where it seems (and time will tell) most parties breach in some way as it was just easier to ignore the rules.
Does anyone understand LeaveEU's methodology . What does " Our polling method consists of a high volume randomised sample and the use of sophisticated AI social media techniques " actually mean when translated into English .
Maybe it means "unlike those paranoid southerners, people in Stoke still answer the phone if you call them"?
I am really worried UKIP will win now. Apparently 65 Oxford Street hasnt even got a phone.
Morally what Nuttall has done is totally wrong. Legally though the law regarding nomination papers says:- "Errors in a home address section 3.115 Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly understood". Comes down to a definition I suppose of how serious the "error" was and what was the intent behind it. Once again UKIP get themselves into a potentially illegal situation or one that could be contrued as that. How many more times?
I am very far from being a UKIP cheerleader ... but this is desperate & tenuous stuff.
It looks to me like a technicality.
All parties parachute people in. It would be better in my opinion if this did not happen, if the people of Stoke where represented by someone from Stoke, and not a Scouser. Or a Tristram.
But, it would have been better for the people of Montgomeryshire to be represented by someone from rural Wales. The LibDems parachuted in Alex Carlilse and then Lembit Opik, neither of whom had any connection with Montgomeryshire ... or rural life ... or Wales.
I don't think banning Nuttall on a technicality would be at all sensiblel
Legally though the law regarding nomination papers says:- "Errors in a home address section 3.115 Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly understood". Comes down to a definition I suppose of how serious the "error" was and what was the intent behind it.
If it gives that wiggle room, sounds like he should be fine.
I don't think banning Nuttall on a technicality would be at all sensiblel
The law may or may not be sensible - he might do a public service in getting it changed if it requires a harsh response in these situations and there is a backlash against it.
Does anyone understand LeaveEU's methodology . What does " Our polling method consists of a high volume randomised sample and the use of sophisticated AI social media techniques " actually mean when translated into English .
We took a few guesses then picked the one that looked most promising for us.
How bizarre, people seem to be actually responding to the thread article.
My view: this is not a disqualifying offence, although it is clearly a technical breach. In that it mirrors the LibDem failure to disclose national expenses (even though they were well below limits). It would be interesting to check for consistency between posters. My bet is there isn't a lot among Kippers and Libs.
Morally what Nuttall has done is totally wrong. Legally though the law regarding nomination papers says:- "Errors in a home address section 3.115 Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly understood". Comes down to a definition I suppose of how serious the "error" was and what was the intent behind it. Once again UKIP get themselves into a potentially illegal situation or one that could be contrued as that. How many more times?
Naaah, "not absolutely correct" means misspelling the street name or transposing two digits in the postcode. How can an address in Stoke be "commonly understood" to be really meaning somewhere in a different county?
Once upon a time, Mike Smithson billed himself as an "independent" blogger, somewhere along the line (around June 23rd I reckon), he became a rather bitter biased commentator pursuing an anti right agenda. Dont get me wrong Nuttall is clearly in breach of the laws here but I would be astonished if anything became of it. If anything i expect this will gain UKIP even more votesIf labour make too much of it. But can we please have more balance on here.? I enjoy this site but its getting to be rather tiresome (What he puts on twitter I dont care, although I suspect that is equally bitter).
Once upon a time, Mike Smithson billed himself as an "independent" blogger, somewhere along the line (around June 23rd I reckon), he became a rather bitter biased commentator pursuing an anti right agenda. Dont get me wrong Nuttall is clearly in breach of the laws here but I would be astonished if anything became of it. If anything i expect this will gain UKIP even more votesIf labour make too much of it. But can we please have more balance on here.? I enjoy this site but its getting to be rather tiresome (What he puts on twitter I dont care, although I suspect that is equally bitter).
Below the line trends to the right, above the line has more to the left (though also some right), seems balanced. Nevertheless, not sure independent always equals balance in any case, though it could also be the case.
I suspect Cock-up not conspiracy. But if he's guilty, out he should go. After all, think of all those Stokies who were hoodwinked into believing he was a local. And being Kippers, they'll be easily hoodwinked.
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
Can I ask, what exactly was the rationale for thinking Paul Nutall was "Labour's nightmare"? Was it ONLY that he had a Northern accent? Do the commentariat really have such a patronising view of Northerners that they thought that would be enough to sway it?
My favourite was when Stoke was described as a Northern seat.
DAFUQ!
It's a grim urban hellhole where people speak oddly so satisfies pretty much every test but physical location.
Doesn't THE NORTH start at Junction 1 of the M1?
BTW first visit to the National Railway Museum in York today!
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
Amazing how many UKIP supporters do not believe the rule of law should apply to them
I have no problem with the rule of law, what I have a problem with is this sort of anal analysis of the far end of a fart when it comes to UKIP. If Nuttall is debagged or whatever the popular term is for this load of tosh, then I would expect every MP who was elected in 2015 and spent a single 1p fraudulently above the statutory limit to be turfed out. No doubt that would reduce the Liberal Democrat parliamentary party requirement for two taxi's to single Tuk,Tuk to ferry them around.
Your holier than thou attitude over issues like this would be honorable if you were consistent, but as we know the silence is always deafening when the corruption and fraud within your own party is exposed.
The reason Ukip gets singled out for this sort of stuff so often is that sane, competent adults tend to lodge important documents correctly and on time, just as they do not hospitalize each other in work-related fist fights.
"The reason Ukip gets singled out for this sort of stuff so often is that sane, competent adults tend to lodge important documents correctly and on time, just as they do not hospitalize each other in work-related fist fight."
Correct, but don't be bringing your posh habits into this.
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
I was going to comment something original but you've summed up my view exactly. +100 victory points.
Once upon a time, Mike Smithson billed himself as an "independent" blogger, somewhere along the line (around June 23rd I reckon), he became a rather bitter biased commentator pursuing an anti right agenda. Dont get me wrong Nuttall is clearly in breach of the laws here but I would be astonished if anything became of it. If anything i expect this will gain UKIP even more votesIf labour make too much of it. But can we please have more balance on here.? I enjoy this site but its getting to be rather tiresome (What he puts on twitter I dont care, although I suspect that is equally bitter).
A candidate with a good chance of winning, and happens to be the leader of his party, will probably be disqualified from all public office if elected. You don't thinks that's newsworthy for a political site?
I suspect Cock-up not conspiracy. But if he's guilty, out he should go. After all, think of all those Stokies who were hoodwinked into believing he was a local. And being Kippers, they'll be easily hoodwinked.
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
"And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie" - if she was would it matter? I think it would, but it actually shouldn't.
if you dislike Trump, you'll believe it. If you like Trump, you'll ask who this mystery so-called Foreign Policy insider is supposed to be. If you think it's all a game now anyway, you'll just ignore it.
Once upon a time, Mike Smithson billed himself as an "independent" blogger, somewhere along the line (around June 23rd I reckon), he became a rather bitter biased commentator pursuing an anti right agenda. Dont get me wrong Nuttall is clearly in breach of the laws here but I would be astonished if anything became of it. If anything i expect this will gain UKIP even more votesIf labour make too much of it. But can we please have more balance on here.? I enjoy this site but its getting to be rather tiresome (What he puts on twitter I dont care, although I suspect that is equally bitter).
A candidate with a good chance of winning, and happens to be the leader of his party, will probably be disqualified from all public office if elected. You don't thinks that's newsworthy for a political site?
I suspect Cock-up not conspiracy. But if he's guilty, out he should go. After all, think of all those Stokies who were hoodwinked into believing he was a local. And being Kippers, they'll be easily hoodwinked.
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
The guidance seems clear. It has to be your CURRENT home address when you complete the form.
if you dislike Trump, you'll believe it. If you like Trump, you'll ask who this mystery so-called Foreign Policy insider is supposed to be. If you think it's all a game now anyway, you'll just ignore it.
I suspect Cock-up not conspiracy. But if he's guilty, out he should go. After all, think of all those Stokies who were hoodwinked into believing he was a local. And being Kippers, they'll be easily hoodwinked.
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
I agree with your last sentence. Nuttall stands little chance of winning the seat while the PM’s handling of Brexit is seen to be heading in the right direction, in fact I’d say June 23rd has taken the wind clean out of the UKIP sails.
I suspect Cock-up not conspiracy. But if he's guilty, out he should go. After all, think of all those Stokies who were hoodwinked into believing he was a local. And being Kippers, they'll be easily hoodwinked.
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
The guidance seems clear. It has to be your CURRENT home address when you complete the form.
Politicians often get "confused" as to where they live.
Did not Jack Straw manage to get "confused" as to whether he was living in Blackburn, Lancs? When it came to paying his council tax, he wasn't there & so could claim a discount; when it came to claiming it back, he was.
Jack Straw's offence seems worse to me than Nuttall's.
Remind me, what happened to Jack Straw over this confusion over his home address?
if you dislike Trump, you'll believe it. If you like Trump, you'll ask who this mystery so-called Foreign Policy insider is supposed to be. If you think it's all a game now anyway, you'll just ignore it.
Let's get Brexit done and dusted and then the Liberals might get their 'crawling back to Europe to kiss arse' plan dumped, and I can vote for them again.
I've only voted at one GE for the Kippers and I'm bored already (although they are more interesting than Farron's Fanatics).
Mr TSE, I reckon your heart's with the yellow peril.
The way redstate.com has gone from the implacable home of the #NeverTrumps and total Trump resistence to felating his every utterance is sadly yet hilariously predictable
if you dislike Trump, you'll believe it. If you like Trump, you'll ask who this mystery so-called Foreign Policy insider is supposed to be. If you think it's all a game now anyway, you'll just ignore it.
if you dislike Trump, you'll believe it. If you like Trump, you'll ask who this mystery so-called Foreign Policy insider is supposed to be. If you think it's all a game now anyway, you'll just ignore it.
TSE is a poundshop Mike Smithson Nick Clegg
TSE is a euroshop Tim Farron.
So a much improved Tim Farron, with shiny wrapping? But what else do you get for your other 98 euro cents? I'm hoping it's Irish Nationality - I'd quite like free cheese.
I suspect Cock-up not conspiracy. But if he's guilty, out he should go. After all, think of all those Stokies who were hoodwinked into believing he was a local. And being Kippers, they'll be easily hoodwinked.
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
The guidance seems clear. It has to be your CURRENT home address when you complete the form.
Politicians often get "confused" as to where they live.
Did not Jack Straw manage to get "confused" as to whether he was living in Blackburn, Lancs? When it came to paying his council tax, he wasn't there & so could claim a discount; when it came to claiming it back, he was.
Jack Straw's offence seems worse to me than Nuttall's.
Remind me, what happened to Jack Straw over this confusion over his home address?
Not to mention the changing of addresses for expenses troughing and tax avoidance purposes.
For example Kitty Ussher who was once praised to the skies by OGH:
' the one I think could have a dramatic impact – Kitty Ussher.
Kitty, who went to Balliol College Oxford, came into the commons as MP for Burnley in 2005 and last year succeeded Ed Balls as Economic Secretary to the Treasury. She is going places. Most of all she is bright, highly articulate, and good on TV. She comes over as a member of the human race and is a season ticket holder at the club I have supported all my life – Burnley FC. '
Well Kitty Ussher did have a dramatic impact - Labour lost Burnley for the first time since 1931.
Once upon a time, Mike Smithson billed himself as an "independent" blogger, somewhere along the line (around June 23rd I reckon), he became a rather bitter biased commentator pursuing an anti right agenda. Dont get me wrong Nuttall is clearly in breach of the laws here but I would be astonished if anything became of it. If anything i expect this will gain UKIP even more votesIf labour make too much of it. But can we please have more balance on here.? I enjoy this site but its getting to be rather tiresome (What he puts on twitter I dont care, although I suspect that is equally bitter).
A candidate with a good chance of winning, and happens to be the leader of his party, will probably be disqualified from all public office if elected. You don't thinks that's newsworthy for a political site?
"Probably" you say?
If it goes to court and someone well make sure it does, the judge will more or less have to find against Nutall because he's taking the piss (that's a legal term). To be eligible candidates have to complete three forms. The home address form only asks for one thing - your current home address. A judge surely would decide that supplying your actual home address is important to establishing eligibility and supplying an address that you intend to move into at some point is misrepresentation.
I understand Ms Abbott's possible dilemma, but since defying the whip was no big deal it's hard to see why she should need to duck out of the vote just for that. Voting with one's conscience is well understood by Mr Corbyn.
A question. MPs used to 'flip' their homes when they had a 2nd property in the constituency. And presumably (even if they don't do that so much), they still have to nominate their main home for tax purposes. So, at the last election, how many MPs choose one address as their main home and a different one for the nomination papers? If Nuttall goes down, how many more will follow?
Still laughing at some on here (@Tyndall talking to you) who told us that Brexiter-in-Chief DD "got it wrong" about our sovereignty.
As Brexiters go PB Leavers are ants on the backside of proper Tory Party Euroloons.
This will keep me amused for a long long long time.
Every cloud!
It's official confirmation that your supposed reason for voting to Leave ("changing neighbourhoods" apart) was a pile of bollocks.
" "changing neighbourhoods" apart" haha
Bloody Polish supermarkets displacing our local milliner and haberdashery emporia.
Oh right! So apart from immigration, which I bang on endlessly about almost all the time, todays DD speech or whatever it was is official confirmation that my supposed reason for voting to Leave was a pile of bollocks.
Let's get Brexit done and dusted and then the Liberals might get their 'crawling back to Europe to kiss arse' plan dumped, and I can vote for them again.
I've only voted at one GE for the Kippers and I'm bored already (although they are more interesting than Farron's Fanatics).
Mr TSE, I reckon your heart's with the yellow peril.
Nonsense. I will always be a Tory.
I prefer to remain inside the tent, trying to remind the Tory party of its internationalist, free trade, one nation, economic liberalism.
Plus George will need my support when he becomes Tory leader/PM in the not to distance future.
Plus the Liberal Democrats and I aren't soulmates, especially under Tim Farron.
A question. MPs used to 'flip' their homes when they had a 2nd property in the constituency. And presumably (even if they don't do that so much), they still have to nominate their main home for tax purposes. So, at the last election, how many MPs choose one address as their main home and a different one for the nomination papers? If Nuttall goes down, how many more will follow?
I don't suppose many of them would have yet to step foot in their second home!
I suspect Cock-up not conspiracy. But if he's guilty, out he should go. After all, think of all those Stokies who were hoodwinked into believing he was a local. And being Kippers, they'll be easily hoodwinked.
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
The guidance seems clear. It has to be your CURRENT home address when you complete the form.
Politicians often get "confused" as to where they live.
Did not Jack Straw manage to get "confused" as to whether he was living in Blackburn, Lancs? When it came to paying his council tax, he wasn't there & so could claim a discount; when it came to claiming it back, he was.
Jack Straw's offence seems worse to me than Nuttall's.
Remind me, what happened to Jack Straw over this confusion over his home address?
Not to mention the changing of addresses for expenses troughing and tax avoidance purposes.
For example Kitty Ussher who was once praised to the skies by OGH:
' the one I think could have a dramatic impact – Kitty Ussher.
Kitty, who went to Balliol College Oxford, came into the commons as MP for Burnley in 2005 and last year succeeded Ed Balls as Economic Secretary to the Treasury. She is going places. Most of all she is bright, highly articulate, and good on TV. She comes over as a member of the human race and is a season ticket holder at the club I have supported all my life – Burnley FC. '
Well Kitty Ussher did have a dramatic impact - Labour lost Burnley for the first time since 1931.
Indeed, sometimes politicians can get so "confused" that even when they remember their current address, they forget who is living with them.
Whiter-than-white LibDem MP, Tessa Munt had been claiming a single persons discount at her Wells home, but forgot she was living with the local GP & Andy Kershaw & Justine McGuinness, all of whom were living with her because they were registered to vote at her address.
I am seriously, how does this look:
Jack Straw "forgets" his current address, ah, no worries, he's very busy, can't be expected to remember.
Kitty Ussher "forgets" her current address, ah, no worries, she's very busy, can't be expected to remember.
Tessa Munt "forgets" who's living with her at her current address, ah, no worries, she's very busy, can't be expected to remember.
Paul Nuttall "forgets" his current address, right, you bastard, you're nicked mate, you'll pay for this. Lifetime disqualification for all political offices.
A question. MPs used to 'flip' their homes when they had a 2nd property in the constituency. And presumably (even if they don't do that so much), they still have to nominate their main home for tax purposes. So, at the last election, how many MPs choose one address as their main home and a different one for the nomination papers? If Nuttall goes down, how many more will follow?
I'm not sure this proves anything, but here is the list of candidates from Witney in 2015:
I suspect Cock-up not conspiracy. But if he's guilty, out he should go. After all, think of all those Stokies who were hoodwinked into believing he was a local. And being Kippers, they'll be easily hoodwinked.
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
The guidance seems clear. It has to be your CURRENT home address when you complete the form.
Politicians often get "confused" as to where they live.
Did not Jack Straw manage to get "confused" as to whether he was living in Blackburn, Lancs? When it came to paying his council tax, he wasn't there & so could claim a discount; when it came to claiming it back, he was.
Jack Straw's offence seems worse to me than Nuttall's.
Remind me, what happened to Jack Straw over this confusion over his home address?
That would be different legislation with different penalties. Under the Representation of the People Act you will be disqualified if you don't do things right, provided the complaint is made within the time limit.
Let's get Brexit done and dusted and then the Liberals might get their 'crawling back to Europe to kiss arse' plan dumped, and I can vote for them again.
I've only voted at one GE for the Kippers and I'm bored already (although they are more interesting than Farron's Fanatics).
Mr TSE, I reckon your heart's with the yellow peril.
Nonsense. I will always be a Tory.
I prefer to remain inside the tent, trying to remind the Tory party of its internationalist, free trade, one nation, economic liberalism.
Plus George will need my support when he becomes Tory leader/PM in the not to distance future. a parallel universe.
Plus the Liberal Democrats and I aren't soulmates, especially under Tim Farron.
Theresa May will have to put her plans for changing immigration rules before parliament, and the free movement of European people might not be curtailed instantly, the government’s Brexit white paper revealed.
For all that I respect Mike and this site, his LibDemmery( and I use that as an insult), comes out in full flood on anything that is more than 0.000001% negative towards UKIP.
This hyper-ventilating bollocks over this apparent crime against democracy , is cringeworthy in the extreme, and worthy of the honorary title of Baby Boomer Snowflake of the Year for MIke.
Amazing how many UKIP supporters do not believe the rule of law should apply to them
I have no problem with the rule of law, what I have a problem with is this sort of anal analysis of the far end of a fart when it comes to UKIP. If Nuttall is debagged or whatever the popular term is for this load of tosh, then I would expect every MP who was elected in 2015 and spent a single 1p fraudulently above the statutory limit to be turfed out. No doubt that would reduce the Liberal Democrat parliamentary party requirement for two taxi's to single Tuk,Tuk to ferry them around.
Your holier than thou attitude over issues like this would be honorable if you were consistent, but as we know the silence is always deafening when the corruption and fraud within your own party is exposed.
The reason Ukip gets singled out for this sort of stuff so often is that sane, competent adults tend to lodge important documents correctly and on time, just as they do not hospitalize each other in work-related fist fights.
Theresa May will have to put her plans for changing immigration rules before parliament, and the free movement of European people might not be curtailed instantly, the government’s Brexit white paper revealed.
Paul Nuttall "forgets" his current address, right, you bastard, you're nicked mate, you'll pay for this. Lifetime disqualification for all political offices.
I suspect Cock-up not conspiracy. But if he's guilty, out he should go. After all, think of all those Stokies who were hoodwinked into believing he was a local. And being Kippers, they'll be easily hoodwinked.
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
The guidance seems clear. It has to be your CURRENT home address when you complete the form.
Politicians often get "confused" as to where they live.
Did not Jack Straw manage to get "confused" as to whether he was living in Blackburn, Lancs? When it came to paying his council tax, he wasn't there & so could claim a discount; when it came to claiming it back, he was.
Jack Straw's offence seems worse to me than Nuttall's.
Remind me, what happened to Jack Straw over this confusion over his home address?
That would be different legislation with different penalties. Under the Representation of the People Act you will be disqualified if you don't do things right, provided the complaint is made within the time limit.
I understand that, of course.
I am pointing out how it looks. It is not a big deal to almost everyone.
(I have no wish to defend Nuttall. I am sure if our positions were reversed, Nuttall would want the full force of the law to come down on YBarddCwsc).
A question. MPs used to 'flip' their homes when they had a 2nd property in the constituency. And presumably (even if they don't do that so much), they still have to nominate their main home for tax purposes. So, at the last election, how many MPs choose one address as their main home and a different one for the nomination papers? If Nuttall goes down, how many more will follow?
I'm not sure this proves anything, but here is the list of candidates from Witney in 2015:
Still laughing at some on here (@Tyndall talking to you) who told us that Brexiter-in-Chief DD "got it wrong" about our sovereignty.
As Brexiters go PB Leavers are ants on the backside of proper Tory Party Euroloons.
This will keep me amused for a long long long time.
Every cloud!
It's official confirmation that your supposed reason for voting to Leave ("changing neighbourhoods" apart) was a pile of bollocks.
" "changing neighbourhoods" apart" haha
Bloody Polish supermarkets displacing our local milliner and haberdashery emporia.
Oh right! So apart from immigration, which I bang on endlessly about almost all the time, todays DD speech or whatever it was is official confirmation that my supposed reason for voting to Leave was a pile of bollocks.
Fair do's you know best!
True Sam. You have always disliked immigration and I apologise for misrepresenting you by saying you were worried about sovereignty.
I was lumping you in with those posters who said that sovereignty was an issue for them.
Theresa May will have to put her plans for changing immigration rules before parliament, and the free movement of European people might not be curtailed instantly, the government’s Brexit white paper revealed.
Comments
I'm no UKIP voter but the sudden avalanche of attempts to win on a technicality because the pro-EU lobby are worried their candidate can't win the actual vote looks unseemly and will, at best, be counterproductive with the voters of Stoke.
Especially when it comes from those who, if they are consistent in their beliefs, hold the view that UKIP deserves 100 MPs based on its 2015 vote share, not 1. Not that most PR-enthusiasts seem to have clocked that the result of PR in 2015 was Nigel as Deputy PM.
Definite non story
I don't care if UKIP would win any redone vote - on the contrary, I've wanted UKIP to win more seats for along time, as I'd like a lot more parties with many seats in Parliament - but failure to prosecute cases for other types of breach does not mean if, indeed, there has been a breach here that it should be ignored.
If anything perhaps we can hope the outrage that only when the UKIP candidate won did it get picked up and progressed, will lead to more sustained progress on enforcement elsewhere with other breaches.
Where do you think his home was when he signed his nomination papers?
a) Bootle
b) Stoke
c) It doesnt matter its only breaking the Law to put the wrong address.
d) Who cares and at least EMWNBPM
Regards
BJO
Jones should have been disqualified. If things are proven to be as they appear then so should Nuttall.
Are there juries in electoral courts? This would strike me as the sort of case a jury would find him "not guilty" on the grounds that the law is an ass. Or a judge could issue a conditional discharge rather than disbarring him (do they have that flexibility?)
https://www.channel4.com/news/conservative-election-expenses-police-annouce-investigation. Much too slow?
That may be a harsh punishment, if that is indeed what the law demands, but I don't know that it is unreasonably harsh. It should not be difficult to fill in an address correctly, and holding electoral office, especially such a significant electoral office, could be said to demand stringent adherence to such rules (acknowledging we know there will be failures in many places).
If the procedures are needlessly confusing and the penalties harsh, then if Nuttall did breach and is punished, maybe it will lead to an improvement - which would be better than the appearance of the expenses situation, where it seems (and time will tell) most parties breach in some way as it was just easier to ignore the rules.
When Arthur Daley was standing for the council the election official advised him to give an address within the relevant ward:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msb0jz2ReGc
"Errors in a home address
section 3.115
Where a home address is not absolutely correct there may not be a
need to make a correction. By law, errors in a home address do not affect the
full operation of a nomination form, as long as the address can be commonly
understood".
Comes down to a definition I suppose of how serious the "error" was and what was the intent behind it.
Once again UKIP get themselves into a potentially illegal situation or one that could be contrued as that. How many more times?
It looks to me like a technicality.
All parties parachute people in. It would be better in my opinion if this did not happen, if the people of Stoke where represented by someone from Stoke, and not a Scouser. Or a Tristram.
But, it would have been better for the people of Montgomeryshire to be represented by someone from rural Wales. The LibDems parachuted in Alex Carlilse and then Lembit Opik, neither of whom had any connection with Montgomeryshire ... or rural life ... or Wales.
I don't think banning Nuttall on a technicality would be at all sensiblel
My view: this is not a disqualifying offence, although it is clearly a technical breach. In that it mirrors the LibDem failure to disclose national expenses (even though they were well below limits). It would be interesting to check for consistency between posters. My bet is there isn't a lot among Kippers and Libs.
Dont get me wrong Nuttall is clearly in breach of the laws here but I would be astonished if anything became of it. If anything i expect this will gain UKIP even more votesIf labour make too much of it.
But can we please have more balance on here.? I enjoy this site but its getting to be rather tiresome (What he puts on twitter I dont care, although I suspect that is equally bitter).
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/02/politics/gop-incredible-shrinking-obamacare-repeal/index.html
They seemed to stop about two weeks ago.
https://twitter.com/RawStory/status/827190495210266628
And Nicola Sturgeon is a Brummie.
He's not going to be elected while Brexit is on course.
BTW first visit to the National Railway Museum in York today!
"The reason Ukip gets singled out for this sort of stuff so often is that sane, competent adults tend to lodge important documents correctly and on time, just as they do not hospitalize each other in work-related fist fight."
Correct, but don't be bringing your posh habits into this.
"Sure, whatever you say boss"
As Brexiters go PB Leavers are ants on the backside of proper Tory Party Euroloons.
This will keep me amused for a long long long time.
"He's just a pound shop Richard Nixon ?"
A perfect example of subjective views.
if you dislike Trump, you'll believe it. If you like Trump, you'll ask who this mystery so-called Foreign Policy insider is supposed to be. If you think it's all a game now anyway, you'll just ignore it.
Mike SmithsonNick CleggDid not Jack Straw manage to get "confused" as to whether he was living in Blackburn, Lancs? When it came to paying his council tax, he wasn't there & so could claim a discount; when it came to claiming it back, he was.
Jack Straw's offence seems worse to me than Nuttall's.
Remind me, what happened to Jack Straw over this confusion over his home address?
I've only voted at one GE for the Kippers and I'm bored already (although they are more interesting than Farron's Fanatics).
Mr TSE, I reckon your heart's with the yellow peril.
For example Kitty Ussher who was once praised to the skies by OGH:
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2008/09/12/could-kitty-be-labours-sarah-palin/
' the one I think could have a dramatic impact – Kitty Ussher.
Kitty, who went to Balliol College Oxford, came into the commons as MP for Burnley in 2005 and last year succeeded Ed Balls as Economic Secretary to the Treasury. She is going places. Most of all she is bright, highly articulate, and good on TV. She comes over as a member of the human race and is a season ticket holder at the club I have supported all my life – Burnley FC. '
Well Kitty Ussher did have a dramatic impact - Labour lost Burnley for the first time since 1931.
Paul Nuttall playing for Tranmere!!!
Good evening, everyone.
A question. MPs used to 'flip' their homes when they had a 2nd property in the constituency. And presumably (even if they don't do that so much), they still have to nominate their main home for tax purposes. So, at the last election, how many MPs choose one address as their main home and a different one for the nomination papers? If Nuttall goes down, how many more will follow?
Fair do's you know best!
I prefer to remain inside the tent, trying to remind the Tory party of its internationalist, free trade, one nation, economic liberalism.
Plus George will need my support when he becomes Tory leader/PM in the not to distance future.
Plus the Liberal Democrats and I aren't soulmates, especially under Tim Farron.
Whiter-than-white LibDem MP, Tessa Munt had been claiming a single persons discount at her Wells home, but forgot she was living with the local GP & Andy Kershaw & Justine McGuinness, all of whom were living with her because they were registered to vote at her address.
I am seriously, how does this look:
Jack Straw "forgets" his current address, ah, no worries, he's very busy, can't be expected to remember.
Kitty Ussher "forgets" her current address, ah, no worries, she's very busy, can't be expected to remember.
Tessa Munt "forgets" who's living with her at her current address, ah, no worries, she's very busy, can't be expected to remember.
Paul Nuttall "forgets" his current address, right, you bastard, you're nicked mate, you'll pay for this. Lifetime disqualification for all political offices.
http://tinyurl.com/hxm37fn
Cameron's address is his constituency address, yet he didn't vote in Witney in the referendum.
Sovereignty
Ummm
MPs to vote on immigration plan for Brexit
Theresa May will have to put her plans for changing immigration rules before parliament, and the free movement of European people might not be curtailed instantly, the government’s Brexit white paper revealed.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/parliament-to-vote-on-mays-immigration-plans-xkr26h520
I think I know what my thread on Sunday will be about.
Haven't done a proper clickbait provocative article in ages.
I am pointing out how it looks. It is not a big deal to almost everyone.
(I have no wish to defend Nuttall. I am sure if our positions were reversed, Nuttall would want the full force of the law to come down on YBarddCwsc).
That wouldn't have been his "current home", would it?
I was lumping you in with those posters who said that sovereignty was an issue for them.