Sounds to me like the outrage train has been somewhat derailed. Yet again the mainstream media get the mood of the real public completely wrong with their urban-centric and social media focus. These repeated failures to learn are becoming very tedious.
Are those who live in urban areas not real people?
The ones in the streets are not mainstream and when it comes to petitions they are not very real either.
I honestly have no idea what you're on about. Their opinion is just as valid as non urban voters whether or not they are "mainstream"
But, but, all those protests and marches. The petition. Twitter. Surely we all think that we should insult our largest single trading partner, key security partner and closest military ally?
Or perhaps the majority of the people in this country are just a bit more grown up than the media would have you believe. Who'd have thought?
@david_herdson. Fair and arguable points David. Yet curiously FPTP negates popular soveriegnty to the extent it never in practice leads to governments having won a majority of the vote. The Conservatives can govern on 37% of the vote opposed to 63% for varying opponents. But can't remain on a 48.1% to 51.9% split. And of course FPTP was overwhelmingly upheld by popular soveriegnty in a referendum only recently ! It all seems quite fluid at the moment.
NICOLA Sturgeon will have “no choice” but to call a second independence referendum if the UK government rejects a bespoke Scottish deal on Europe, her Brexit minister has warned
Edit - mind you, this was fro the man that gave us that unqualified success called 'Scottish Education'......
She would always have had no choice, even if Brexit weren't happening, some reason would be found at some stage. I dont even disagree that they have a right to do so, but the pretence their hand is being forced is so wearying.
Edit - on the other key story, nothing wrong with new tales on a character, it is a question of if race or gender is truly an integral part of the core of that character. It would be hard for black panther to not be played by a black actor after all. For the doctor, the most important thing is despite being an alien and capable of transformations, he/she must always be inexplicably British.
But, but, all those protests and marches. The petition. Twitter. Surely we all think that we should insult our largest single trading partner, key security partner and closest military ally?
Or perhaps the majority of the people in this country are just a bit more grown up than the media would have you believe. Who'd have thought?
I saw this on the guardian expecting to see the poll referenced but not a chance. Maybe it's the 'wrong sort of poll'.... Fake news?
But, but, all those protests and marches. The petition. Twitter. Surely we all think that we should insult our largest single trading partner, key security partner and closest military ally?
Or perhaps the majority of the people in this country are just a bit more grown up than the media would have you believe. Who'd have thought?
Well, I did post on Saturday several times that the YouGov daily polling was evenly split on a Trump style ban here. So I am not at all surprised.
Trumps ban was chaotically and arbitrarily implemented, but entirely justified by his electoral mandate.
@david_herdson. Fair and arguable points David. Yet curiously FPTP negates popular soveriegnty to the extent it never in practice leads to governments having won a majority of the vote. The Conservatives can govern on 37% of the vote opposed to 63% for varying opponents. But can't remain on a 48.1% to 51.9% split. And of course FPTP was overwhelmingly upheld by popular soveriegnty in a referendum only recently ! It all seems quite fluid at the moment.
Not quite true - the Conservatives won an outright majority of the popular vote. Admittedly only once and it was 86 years ago.
The closest anyone has come since is Eden in 1955 (which was also the last election that the Conservatives polled above 50% in their former stronghold of Scotland) - 49.5%. Curiously he won a much smaller majority than Macmillan did in 1959 on a fractionally lower share, largely thanks to the heavy squeeze on the Liberals who if memory serves polled something risible like 2% before recovering somewhat under Grimond's leadership.
@David_Herdson If the stuff the Tories are putting out in Copeland isn't a trial run for an early election I'm a Christmas Tree. Accelerating candidate selection is another sign.
@David_Herdson If the stuff the Tories are putting out in Copeland isn't a trial run for an early election I'm a Christmas Tree. Accelerating candidate selection is another sign.
@Essexit I elevate very very few of my political opinions to fact. However one exception to that is the 52% being so disperate a coalition as to make bitterly disapointing many of them inevitable.
@ydoethur Yes. I meant in modern times but said " in practice " which of course has a different meaning.
On this trump stuff, I am a little surprised at this poll finding, as it has some nuance,
On the one hand our desperate need to be first to pay homage to the American president is depressing, but not exactly a new invention, so the fact of sucking up is not unusual or additionally humiliating, and I noted prior to the EO many lefties felt may had done an ok job, photo embarrassment or no.
On the other hand trump is distasteful in so many ways and the EO seems to have been a poorly put together policy on top of one most of us disagree with, and the government's response was very slow and weak because of our subordinate position.
Bottom line - it'd have been nice if we hadn't already offered a state visit, not right away, but having offered it it's hard to withdraw it given the people who have already had one, even accepting plenty weren't happy about those ones either.
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
@DavidL Our largest single trading partner isn't the US. It's the Single Market. Which were leaving with no guarantees on a successor arrangement. So if Trump opponents in Britain do believe that principle and/or fauxtrage should trump Realpolitik in Trump they can just point to the zeitgeist.
NICOLA Sturgeon will have “no choice” but to call a second independence referendum if the UK government rejects a bespoke Scottish deal on Europe, her Brexit minister has warned
Edit - mind you, this was fro the man that gave us that unqualified success called 'Scottish Education'......
She would always have had no choice, even if Brexit weren't happening, some reason would be found at some stage. I dont even disagree that they have a right to do so, but the pretence their hand is being forced is so wearying.
Edit - on the other key story, nothing wrong with new tales on a character, it is a question of if race or gender is truly an integral part of the core of that character. It would be hard for black panther to not be played by a black actor after all. For the doctor, the most important thing is despite being an alien and capable of transformations, he/she must always be inexplicably British.
But it's all pretense. Sturgeon DOESN'T want to call a vote, not unless she's very sure of winning. A 2nd defeat would be catastrophic for the SNP and would probably split the party, as well as ending indy for a generation. The polls just aren't good enough for her now,. And only 27% of Scots want a vote before Brexit is finished (which is the most sensible position, how can you vote on staying in the U.K. If you don't know what the U.K. will look like in a year)
So this is all posturing. They're trying to goad TMay into forbidding a vote, so they can stoke the grievance fires.
Then they'd go for a vote right after Brexit. Early 2020 is my guess.
Granted she may not want call one right now, but they do want to call one at some point - as you say, they'd really like that to be when more confident of winning - so acting like the action or unaction if the uk government has any impact on their decision, except insofar as it impacts Scottish public opinion, is a smokescreen. If the government did everything they want or nothing it wouldn't make a difference to their calling for a vote if the numbers were or were not in their favour. One thing we know of the snp, they aren't fools.
It's the same as having an actress play James Bond. I just don't get it. The characters are male!
DW is a Time Lord and, as has been established beyond doubt in canon, TLs are gender fluid. The Master has certainly had male and female incarnations and I have a vague recollection of at least one other changing sex. Harperson is 100% right on this.
A female James (Jane?) Bond would also be terrific for that franchise which is extremely tired.
But, but, all those protests and marches. The petition. Twitter. Surely we all think that we should insult our largest single trading partner, key security partner and closest military ally?
Or perhaps the majority of the people in this country are just a bit more grown up than the media would have you believe. Who'd have thought?
Well, I did post on Saturday several times that the YouGov daily polling was evenly split on a Trump style ban here. So I am not at all surprised.
Trumps ban was chaotically and arbitrarily implemented, but entirely justified by his electoral mandate.
Quite so and most people can respect the mandate without having any enthusiasm for the man. I support the visit but who isn't worried about this man being President for the next 4 years? He will not always act in a way that is in the UK national interest, it will not even occur to him that he should. He will not provide the stability and reliability that the US has post war. It will make our position a little more precarious and uncertain but we absolutely have to make the best of it.
I remember Spitting Image's brilliant song "I believe" about not believing that Reagan had been elected President. He turned out to be a very good President. I remember the disbelief when GW Bush was elected. He, not so much. Now we have disbelief at Trump. I do fear he will be in the latter category but however he turns out he is a reality that our leaders have to deal with.
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
I gave up with Dr Who when Tom Baker ceased to be our time lord.
A quibble. Headline has support/oppose visit, text has should/should not go ahead. They are not the same! I think inviting him was a hasty hostage to fortune, an unforced error. However, the visit should go ahead as far worse have been accorded the honour, and cancelling would have severe consequences. Therefore, I oppose the visit, but think it should go ahead. Accordingly I signed neither petition, but support anyone who signed either. Another gripe is the increasing use of "mainstream" to mean "majority".
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
It is not the gender politics of Dr Who that is the problem, it is the poor writing of what should be a fairly simple tale of peril.
Christopher Ecclestone was my favourite of the revival, he had the right air of menace, as indeed should James Bond. JB is licensed for extrajudicial killings after all, a Red White and Blue death squad.
Oh, I see lord coe may be a liar or relying on 'I'm incompetent not a liar' as a defence. A shame, but who could have predicted that from senior sports administrators?
@Hertsmere_Pubgoer It's in Destiny of the Daleks that Romans tries in different bodies for the Doctor to view during a Regeneration Cycle. Shows the fluidity of the process in Canon.
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
It is not the gender politics of Dr Who that is the problem, it is the poor writing of what should be a fairly simple tale of peril.
Christopher Ecclestone was my favourite of the revival, he had the right air of menace, as indeed should James Bond. JB is licensed for extrajudicial killings after all, a Red White and Blue death squad.
No-one can beat Roger Moore's brooding, dark portrayal of Bond.
Interesting polling. I think Rudd went too far (in terms of diverging from the PM). Mind you, I also said Rudd only got the job (at the time) to make May look smarter.
On Doctor Who: it is established that Time Lords can change gender but I believe that particular daftness came in with New Who. Could be wrong. Capaldi should've been a perfect fit but the episodes of his I watched were poor because of weak writing.
As an aside, the assistant has (in New Who) almost been leading more than following, so we'll see if that continues if we have a female Doctor and male companion. One suspects not.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Submarine, now I feel daft for not remembering that (rather good serial). However, it remains tosh.
A quibble. Headline has support/oppose visit, text has should/should not go ahead. They are not the same! I think inviting him was a hasty hostage to fortune, an unforced error. However, the visit should go ahead as far worse have been accorded the honour, and cancelling would have severe consequences. Therefore, I oppose the visit, but think it should go ahead. Accordingly I signed neither petition, but support anyone who signed either. Another gripe is the increasing use of "mainstream" to mean "majority".
The anti-state visit petition explicitly endorses a non state visit.
It does rather beg the question of who should make such an invitation. Head of State or Head of Government?
For example if PM Corbyn invited the head of Hamas on a State visit, should tbe Queen comply?
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
It is not the gender politics of Dr Who that is the problem, it is the poor writing of what should be a fairly simple tale of peril.
Christopher Ecclestone was my favourite of the revival, he had the right air of menace, as indeed should James Bond. JB is licensed for extrajudicial killings after all, a Red White and Blue death squad.
Your first paragraph is key. The BBC would be better advised to take a break and come back when they've given the scripting a hard think. They won't, they'll keep on flogging the horse until long after its dead - see Top Gear and Chris Evans. It's that bizarre push pull between glorying in ratings to justify the licence fee and claiming, "we're different to commercial broadcasting".
I'm not surprised by the poll. The reaction has been out of all proportion and, dare it be said, looks unfair. All those pampered celebs queuing up to liken him to Hitler must have put many off. It did me and mine. With enemies like that I can at last understand how he won the presidency.
Indonesian clerics are preparing to issue a fatwa against “fake news” after a series of damaging hoaxes on social media which targeted the Chinese and Christian minorities.
The move follows growing concern in the world’s most populous Muslim nation about the spread of fake news – a phenomenon that has been credited with fuelling recent ethnic and political tensions.
Some of the spurious items in recent months include a claim that China was using contaminated chilli seeds to wage biological warfare against Indonesia, a claim that the design of new monetary notes contains an image of the communist hammer and sickle, and a claim that Indonesia has been inundated by ten million Chinese migrant workers (the government says the number was actually 21,000)...
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
I gave up with Dr Who when Tom Baker ceased to be our time lord.
Baker era DW went rapidly downhill after its "Gothic" period of 1974-77 and limped on for four flaccid seasons after that. IMO, the McCoy Doctor is greatly under-rated (Curse of the Fenric is one of the best ever serials). Tennant was good, too. There's a lot to enjoy in post-Baker DW.
@dixiedean Indeed. And the anti Trump petition it's self reflects that complexity. I signed because it's opening sentence explicitly says that as US President he should be able to visit Britain. The petition asks for the *State* visit to be prevented because of his views. I doubt many voters know or care about this distinctions but it's not an unreasonable one in it's self. " Working visits are fine because of your role but no State visit because you're a c***. "
@DavidL Our largest single trading partner isn't the US. It's the Single Market. Which were leaving with no guarantees on a successor arrangement. So if Trump opponents in Britain do believe that principle and/or fauxtrage should trump Realpolitik in Trump they can just point to the zeitgeist.
I don't really want a repeat of this argument but the Single Market is made up of sovereign countries, none of whom we trade with as much as we do with the US.
So our largest single trading partner is someone we do not currently have a trade deal with. When people lament the on coming devastation and starvation inevitably going to be caused by even the possibility of some minor administrative inconvenience in trading with Germany or France they really should reflect on that.
@dixiedean Indeed. And the anti Trump petition it's self reflects that complexity. I signed because it's opening sentence explicitly says that as US President he should be able to visit Britain. The petition asks for the *State* visit to be prevented because of his views. I doubt many voters know or care about this distinctions but it's not an unreasonable one in it's self. " Working visits are fine because of your role but no State visit because you're a c***. "
I think people have made the distinction, since three times as many signed it as the old one asking him not to be allowed to come at all, while a private citizen to boot, or whatever it was after.
I signed both just to be difficult. I wish he hadn't been offered one right away, but do t actually think once offered we can withdraw it, so I thought I'd split the difference.
A quibble. Headline has support/oppose visit, text has should/should not go ahead. They are not the same! I think inviting him was a hasty hostage to fortune, an unforced error. However, the visit should go ahead as far worse have been accorded the honour, and cancelling would have severe consequences. Therefore, I oppose the visit, but think it should go ahead. Accordingly I signed neither petition, but support anyone who signed either. Another gripe is the increasing use of "mainstream" to mean "majority".
The anti-state visit petition explicitly endorses a non state visit.
It does rather beg the question of who should make such an invitation. Head of State or Head of Government?
For example if PM Corbyn invited the head of Hamas on a State visit, should tbe Queen comply?
Yes she should through gritted teeth. That is her job as a ceremonial head of State.
A quibble. Headline has support/oppose visit, text has should/should not go ahead. They are not the same! I think inviting him was a hasty hostage to fortune, an unforced error. However, the visit should go ahead as far worse have been accorded the honour, and cancelling would have severe consequences. Therefore, I oppose the visit, but think it should go ahead. Accordingly I signed neither petition, but support anyone who signed either. Another gripe is the increasing use of "mainstream" to mean "majority".
The anti-state visit petition explicitly endorses a non state visit.
It does rather beg the question of who should make such an invitation. Head of State or Head of Government?
For example if PM Corbyn invited the head of Hamas on a State visit, should tbe Queen comply?
Yep - an official visit is no problem at all. In fact, you'd expect it. A state visit invitation just a week after taking office - an honour accorded to no previous US president - demeans the UK. But once proffered, it is hard to withdraw (even if it should be). That's why it should never have been offered in the first place.
Macron v Le Pen, then. Macron is 39 years old. One is not supposed to mention that his wife is 24 years older than he is, and that they met when he was 15 and she was his school teacher. It’s the kind of thing voters claim not to notice while thinking it just a bit bizarre. Non?
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
It is not the gender politics of Dr Who that is the problem, it is the poor writing of what should be a fairly simple tale of peril.
Christopher Ecclestone was my favourite of the revival, he had the right air of menace, as indeed should James Bond. JB is licensed for extrajudicial killings after all, a Red White and Blue death squad.
In the books, Bond is definitely an antihero, who is gradually being destroyed by the nature of his work. That doesn't come over in the films.
I'm late to the party on this sublime David Frum piece on Trumpian autocracy. Or what I'm calling postfascism. Doubtless it will have done the rounds here already but it's worth thinking this through for what it will look like in Britain. We've already seen this the secret Nissan Comfort letter. The response to the High Court A50 ruling ( though not in fairness the Supreme Court ruling ) is another example. #indyref2 will shaped by it as well as the Nats, who'll stop at nothing, will quickly learn the lessons and seek to build in the YES base. These are very dark days indeed.
I feel much less worried about the UK. That may be complacency, but I have a lot of confidence in MPs to defend democracy and respect the law.
I do think the US risks a significant erosion of democracy (I quite like postfacsicm btw). I really hope it doesn't happen... But it will need republican politicians to stand up to Trump... And I see no evidence that they will do so whatever he does.
Politicians will follow the public (or what they believe the public is thinking). GOP congressmen will stand up to Trump when - if - his approval ratings tank.
GOP congressmen are accountable to gerrymandered districts, with (I suspect) some new, draconian voter suppression tactics on the way... For many their risk is Fox news going after them and aprimary challenge... I don't feel optimistic about this.
I still don't understand how voter ID can be classified as draconian voter suppression, especially when you can apply for free ID.
Oh I think they will do a lot more than voter ID...
Despite OGH's spin on it in the final paragraphs there can be little doubt this poll of UK voters backing the State Visit is a huge boost to May after all the media and leftwing criticism of the last few days she now has clear public support for the Trump State Visit. The U.S. poll backing Trump's ban is also a boost, it is all very well criticising Trump on his policies but a majority of U.S. voters too?
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
I gave up with Dr Who when Tom Baker ceased to be our time lord.
Baker era DW went rapidly downhill after its "Gothic" period of 1974-77 and limped on for four flaccid seasons after that. IMO, the McCoy Doctor is greatly under-rated (Curse of the Fenric is one of the best ever serials). Tennant was good, too. There's a lot to enjoy in post-Baker DW.
Tbf during the 74-77 period I was aged between 4 and 7. Not sure my TV critique skills were that good then, or indeed now.
A female Doctor is something I'd struggle to deal with.
The only positive from a female Doctor is on the Doctor Who forums some fans would go into meltdown.
Think PB when discusses AV meets One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.
I believe romance has played a bigger part in newwho, of which gender may play a part, but while it would be absurd if anyone suggests 'it's time' for a female doctor or whatever, like it's a head of government or something, it seems to me the character in general would fit well as either gender.
Female James Bond? Well, an argument could be made being a somewhat skeezy ladies man is a key part of the role, but it's not like you couldn't make a movie about an attractive arse kicking female spy and call her bond. It would be nicer if we could more spy franchises than bond and the terribly dull bourne movies, why not a bond in all but name female spy? But it wouldn't be that bad - indeed, the best modern Holmes and Watson has a female Watson.
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
I gave up with Dr Who when Tom Baker ceased to be our time lord.
Baker era DW went rapidly downhill after its "Gothic" period of 1974-77 and limped on for four flaccid seasons after that. IMO, the McCoy Doctor is greatly under-rated (Curse of the Fenric is one of the best ever serials). Tennant was good, too. There's a lot to enjoy in post-Baker DW.
Tbf during the 74-77 period I was aged between 4 and 7. Not sure my TV critique skills were that good then, or indeed now.
At that age, I was scared witless by the giant maggots.
At primary school, we were also convinced that the revolting mashed potato was made from the giant maggots.
@TheScreamingEagles If the BBC really wants to upset PB the next Doctor will be a German exiled to work with UNIT in Brussels. They'll work to undo the Zygon invasion of the UK that led to Brexit.
A female Doctor is something I'd struggle to deal with.
The only positive from a female Doctor is on the Doctor Who forums some fans would go into meltdown.
Think PB when discusses AV meets One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.
I believe romance has played a bigger part in newwho, of which gender may play a part, but while it would be absurd if anyone suggests 'it's time' for a female doctor or whatever, like it's a head of government or something, it seems to me the character in general would fit well as either gender.
Female James Bond? Well, an argument could be made being a somewhat skeezy ladies man is a key part of the role, but it's not like you couldn't make a movie about an attractive arse kicking female spy and call her bond. It would be nicer if we could more spy franchises than bond and the terribly dull bourne movies, why not a bond in all but name female spy? But it wouldn't be that bad - indeed, the best modern Holmes and Watson has a female Watson.
You could have a spin off series, featuring Rosa Klebb torturing people for the KGB.
@TheScreamingEagles If the BBC really wants to upset PB the next Doctor will be a German exiled to work with UNIT in Brussels. They'll work to undo the Zygon invasion of the UK that led to Brexit.
The next Dr. Who should be a female Syrian refugee.
Mr. F, saw The Green Death as a repeat. The giant maggots were a bit freaky for me as well (also saw it again more recently. Dated, but that's to be expected).
@DavdL I agree another rehashing of the Brexit arguments serves no purpose today of all days especially. However I stand by my two specific points. #1 For the purposes of what we were discussing Trade the Single Market is just that. For Trade purposes saying the US is our largest single partner is highly moot at best. #2 Your point that Realpolitik trumps principle on trade is belief by the fact we're voluntarily leaving point #1
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
I gave up with Dr Who when Tom Baker ceased to be our time lord.
Baker era DW went rapidly downhill after its "Gothic" period of 1974-77 and limped on for four flaccid seasons after that. IMO, the McCoy Doctor is greatly under-rated (Curse of the Fenric is one of the best ever serials). Tennant was good, too. There's a lot to enjoy in post-Baker DW.
Tbf during the 74-77 period I was aged between 4 and 7. Not sure my TV critique skills were that good then, or indeed now.
I think Graham Williams had great ideas, little idea of how to turn them into great TV and no budget. The quote of the next era was "we weren't allowed to make it funny, we weren't allowed to make it funny, so what were we supposed to do?"
Cartmel solved that conundrum by making it literary and political.
A female Doctor is something I'd struggle to deal with.
The only positive from a female Doctor is on the Doctor Who forums some fans would go into meltdown.
Think PB when discusses AV meets One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.
I believe romance has played a bigger part in newwho, of which gender may play a part, but while it would be absurd if anyone suggests 'it's time' for a female doctor or whatever, like it's a head of government or something, it seems to me the character in general would fit well as either gender.
Female James Bond? Well, an argument could be made being a somewhat skeezy ladies man is a key part of the role, but it's not like you couldn't make a movie about an attractive arse kicking female spy and call her bond. It would be nicer if we could more spy franchises than bond and the terribly dull bourne movies, why not a bond in all but name female spy? But it wouldn't be that bad - indeed, the best modern Holmes and Watson has a female Watson.
You could have a spin off series, featuring Rosa Klebb torturing people for the KGB.
It might actually be fun to see a bond movie from the perspective of an honourable enemy of his. Maybe not knowing their country or organisation is secretly evil and finding themselves up against this destructive sociopath for reasons you don't understand. Like the Robin Hood script that would have been about the sheriff of Nottingham.
Indonesian clerics are preparing to issue a fatwa against “fake news” after a series of damaging hoaxes on social media which targeted the Chinese and Christian minorities.
The move follows growing concern in the world’s most populous Muslim nation about the spread of fake news – a phenomenon that has been credited with fuelling recent ethnic and political tensions.
Some of the spurious items in recent months include a claim that China was using contaminated chilli seeds to wage biological warfare against Indonesia, a claim that the design of new monetary notes contains an image of the communist hammer and sickle, and a claim that Indonesia has been inundated by ten million Chinese migrant workers (the government says the number was actually 21,000)...
The (highly effective and uncorrupt) ethnic Chinese governor of Jakarta is being prosecuted for blasphemy - on the basis of a very selectively edited Youtube video of a speech he made (side note, the editor of that video, a University lecturer has also been charged).
He is currently running for re-election.
One of his opponents in the election is the son of the former President.
Yesterday in court the defence claimed that the former President called one of the Muslim bodies behind the push for prosecution urging them onwards to help his son.
Meanwhile the leader of the most hardline Muslim group agitating for the governor's prosecution is also being investigated for blasphemy against the Indonesian constitution - and claiming bank notes have secret communist symbols in them (they're standard security features) - they don't like it up em!
A few nights ago they held the second of two 'head to head' debates among the candidates - ruthlessly timed and unforgivingly invigilated (though some are asking for the first debate's invigilator back as she was even tougher).....
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
It is not the gender politics of Dr Who that is the problem, it is the poor writing of what should be a fairly simple tale of peril.
Christopher Ecclestone was my favourite of the revival, he had the right air of menace, as indeed should James Bond. JB is licensed for extrajudicial killings after all, a Red White and Blue death squad.
In the books, Bond is definitely an antihero, who is gradually being destroyed by the nature of his work. That doesn't come over in the films.
Arguably it does (somewhat) in some of the later films. Casino Royale gets close to it, after he falls for Eva Green.
Casino Royale is the best of the films for this reason, but prevented from being a true classic by the overlong conclusion in Venice.
A quibble. Headline has support/oppose visit, text has should/should not go ahead. They are not the same! I think inviting him was a hasty hostage to fortune, an unforced error. However, the visit should go ahead as far worse have been accorded the honour, and cancelling would have severe consequences. Therefore, I oppose the visit, but think it should go ahead. Accordingly I signed neither petition, but support anyone who signed either. Another gripe is the increasing use of "mainstream" to mean "majority".
The anti-state visit petition explicitly endorses a non state visit.
It does rather beg the question of who should make such an invitation. Head of State or Head of Government?
For example if PM Corbyn invited the head of Hamas on a State visit, should tbe Queen comply?
Yep - an official visit is no problem at all. In fact, you'd expect it. A state visit invitation just a week after taking office - an honour accorded to no previous US president - demeans the UK. But once proffered, it is hard to withdraw (even if it should be). That's why it should never have been offered in the first place.
If not this year it would have to have been offered by the middle of 2019 given Obama and George W Bush both had State Visits by the end of their first term
An earlier entry to this debate. Another option would be to kill a James Bond off and then discover the name is actually an honourific title attached to an office. That of 007.
Sounds to me like the outrage train has been somewhat derailed. Yet again the mainstream media get the mood of the real public completely wrong with their urban-centric and social media focus. These repeated failures to learn are becoming very tedious.
Are those who live in urban areas not real people?
The ones in the streets are not mainstream and when it comes to petitions they are not very real either.
I honestly have no idea what you're on about. Their opinion is just as valid as non urban voters whether or not they are "mainstream"
Nope - you don't and never will get it. Jog on.
I'd have more time for your accusations of "liberal media bias" if you similarly pointed out the bollocks that is printed by the likes of the Mail and the Express, which is usually an order of magnitude worse. Funnily enough, you're silent on that subject.
Surely it matters less whether (the fictional character) Doctor Who has a willy or not and more whether the actor is any good and what this (potentially rather tired) character has fresh to say and what fun there is to be had.
A quibble. Headline has support/oppose visit, text has should/should not go ahead. They are not the same! I think inviting him was a hasty hostage to fortune, an unforced error. However, the visit should go ahead as far worse have been accorded the honour, and cancelling would have severe consequences. Therefore, I oppose the visit, but think it should go ahead. Accordingly I signed neither petition, but support anyone who signed either. Another gripe is the increasing use of "mainstream" to mean "majority".
The anti-state visit petition explicitly endorses a non state visit.
It does rather beg the question of who should make such an invitation. Head of State or Head of Government?
For example if PM Corbyn invited the head of Hamas on a State visit, should tbe Queen comply?
Yep - an official visit is no problem at all. In fact, you'd expect it. A state visit invitation just a week after taking office - an honour accorded to no previous US president - demeans the UK. But once proffered, it is hard to withdraw (even if it should be). That's why it should never have been offered in the first place.
If not this year it would have to have been offered by the middle of 2019 given Obama and George W Bush both had State Visits by the end of their first term
Which is more than 2 years away and would have been a far more appropriate waiting period.
An earlier entry to this debate. Another option would be to kill a James Bond off and then discover the name is actually an honourific title attached to an office. That of 007.
A quibble. Headline has support/oppose visit, text has should/should not go ahead. They are not the same! I think inviting him was a hasty hostage to fortune, an unforced error. However, the visit should go ahead as far worse have been accorded the honour, and cancelling would have severe consequences. Therefore, I oppose the visit, but think it should go ahead. Accordingly I signed neither petition, but support anyone who signed either. Another gripe is the increasing use of "mainstream" to mean "majority".
The anti-state visit petition explicitly endorses a non state visit.
It does rather beg the question of who should make such an invitation. Head of State or Head of Government?
For example if PM Corbyn invited the head of Hamas on a State visit, should tbe Queen comply?
Yep - an official visit is no problem at all. In fact, you'd expect it. A state visit invitation just a week after taking office - an honour accorded to no previous US president - demeans the UK. But once proffered, it is hard to withdraw (even if it should be). That's why it should never have been offered in the first place.
If not this year it would have to have been offered by the middle of 2019 given Obama and George W Bush both had State Visits by the end of their first term
Which is more than 2 years away and would have been a far more appropriate waiting period.
Of course there would have been no anti Trump visit petitions or protests in 2 years time, no none at all!!
A quibble. Headline has support/oppose visit, text has should/should not go ahead. They are not the same! I think inviting him was a hasty hostage to fortune, an unforced error. However, the visit should go ahead as far worse have been accorded the honour, and cancelling would have severe consequences. Therefore, I oppose the visit, but think it should go ahead. Accordingly I signed neither petition, but support anyone who signed either. Another gripe is the increasing use of "mainstream" to mean "majority".
The anti-state visit petition explicitly endorses a non state visit.
It does rather beg the question of who should make such an invitation. Head of State or Head of Government?
For example if PM Corbyn invited the head of Hamas on a State visit, should tbe Queen comply?
Yep - an official visit is no problem at all. In fact, you'd expect it. A state visit invitation just a week after taking office - an honour accorded to no previous US president - demeans the UK. But once proffered, it is hard to withdraw (even if it should be). That's why it should never have been offered in the first place.
If not this year it would have to have been offered by the middle of 2019 given Obama and George W Bush both had State Visits by the end of their first term
Which is more than 2 years away and would have been a far more appropriate waiting period.
Of course there would have been no anti Trump visit petitions or protests in 2 years time, no none at all!!
Of course there would have been. But unless he proves as bad as his worst critics think, it's pretty safe to assume they would have been lesser, the atmosphere less febrile. Right now we're all fearing the worst about him
On topic, from The Times report, my emphasis added
A YouGov poll for The Times found that despite widespread disapproval of the president and his policies , 49 per cent of voters think that the visit should go ahead because Britain has to deal with the elected leader of the US.
I am bored of all the franchises. Star Wars, Who, Bond, Marvel, Batman, Planet of the Apes. All of it.
They worked when they were Saturday afternoon flicks, but all the imposed deep meaning, fan references and expanded universes is utter bollocks.
It is squeezing out new ideas.
It's like in 1977 they had never released Star wars and stuck with the 15th sequel to the Wizard of Oz.
Nothing wrong with telling new and more varied stories in a shared setting. Some will be bad, some will be good.
Whenever people complain about lack of new ideas, lamenting reboots or new sequels as though they are modern perils, I always bring up SHerlock Holmes, a character that has appeared in dozens of films and tv shows across many many decades,played indifferent ways by a great many different actors. Rehashing old ideas is not new. Rehashing old ideas is normal. Franchise settings are primarily for marketing purposes I am sure, but as a story telling device are not inherently worse than any other medium, if the writing is good and performances solid.
In my opinion the last few decades have been a golden age for tv for instance - there's more good stuff, some of it really innovative, than ever before. There has also been more dross than ever before. The problem, as it were, is like there not being enough news to fill 24 hr channels but filling it anyway - there are only so many good writers and actors out there, spread out over more content.
A quibble. Headline has support/oppose visit, text has should/should not go ahead. They are not the same! I think inviting him was a hasty hostage to fortune, an unforced error. However, the visit should go ahead as far worse have been accorded the honour, and cancelling would have severe consequences. Therefore, I oppose the visit, but think it should go ahead. Accordingly I signed neither petition, but support anyone who signed either. Another gripe is the increasing use of "mainstream" to mean "majority".
The anti-state visit petition explicitly endorses a non state visit.
It does rather beg the question of who should make such an invitation. Head of State or Head of Government?
For example if PM Corbyn invited the head of Hamas on a State visit, should tbe Queen comply?
Yep - an official visit is no problem at all. In fact, you'd expect it. A state visit invitation just a week after taking office - an honour accorded to no previous US president - demeans the UK. But once proffered, it is hard to withdraw (even if it should be). That's why it should never have been offered in the first place.
If not this year it would have to have been offered by the middle of 2019 given Obama and George W Bush both had State Visits by the end of their first term
Which is more than 2 years away and would have been a far more appropriate waiting period.
Is was offered because TM realises the desperate state we might well be in after Brexit and wanted to ‘cosy up’ a new big market. We could wel be on the travelator to, if not hell, to a very difficult place. Does remind one of the Young Lady of Riga, though!
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
It is not the gender politics of Dr Who that is the problem, it is the poor writing of what should be a fairly simple tale of peril.
Christopher Ecclestone was my favourite of the revival, he had the right air of menace, as indeed should James Bond. JB is licensed for extrajudicial killings after all, a Red White and Blue death squad.
In the books, Bond is definitely an antihero, who is gradually being destroyed by the nature of his work. That doesn't come over in the films.
Arguably it does (somewhat) in some of the later films. Casino Royale gets close to it, after he falls for Eva Green.
Casino Royale is the best of the films for this reason, but prevented from being a true classic by the overlong conclusion in Venice.
Agreed - the first two Daniel Craig Bond films (yes, I include the much maligned Quantum of Solace in this) did seem to capture the Fleming anti-hero quality.
@MarkeeMark I try to be forgiving to fellow alumni of Britain's Best University so I shan't suggest a Muslim Doctor.
However late to the party I've just started watching ' Class ' the Doctor Who spin off. When I discovered they'd made the Hero character , the Prince , not only gay but with a polish immgrants boy friend well...
I managed to narrowly avoid spontaneously creaming myself in an orgasm of left liberal satisfaction. But I did gently kiss my tablet and whisper " thank you BBC." After the liberal apocalypse of the last 12 months a Gay Hero in a sci fi programme with a EU immgrants boyfriend was like a shaft of light from Heaven.
On topic, from The Times report, my emphasis added
A YouGov poll for The Times found that despite widespread disapproval of the president and his policies , 49 per cent of voters think that the visit should go ahead because Britain has to deal with the elected leader of the US.
Quite a lot of Spin from the Times.
The poll has no data for:
- widespread disapproval of the president
It only has data on one of the President's policies:
Stop accepting refugees from Syria, put a 4 month ban on accepting any refugees and a 3 month ban on all travel to the USA by people from seven Muslim countries (Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan and Libya)
Where the split is 50% bad idea, 29% good idea
And it has no data to conclude that:
the visit should go ahead because Britain has to deal with the elected leader of the US
As the question asked was simply:
Donald Trump has been invited to make an official State Visit to Britain later this year, do you think this should go ahead or should it be cancelled?
People who go on about Doctor Who, Sherlock or Star Wars are just GITS. Just stupid stupid GITS
GITS
There. I said it. What we were all thinking. Shut up you GITS.
Yeah - not like those of us who go on about politics, classical history, foreign travel, trains, cricket and F1 and the like.
Some of us all talk about all of those, Doctor Who, Sherlock or Star Wars, politics, classical history, foreign travel, trains, cricket and F1 and the like.
I can add "gender of Doctor Who" to the ever-lengthening list of hot topics that I haven't the slightest interest in developing a position on either way.
It is not the gender politics of Dr Who that is the problem, it is the poor writing of what should be a fairly simple tale of peril.
Christopher Ecclestone was my favourite of the revival, he had the right air of menace, as indeed should James Bond. JB is licensed for extrajudicial killings after all, a Red White and Blue death squad.
In the books, Bond is definitely an antihero, who is gradually being destroyed by the nature of his work. That doesn't come over in the films.
Arguably it does (somewhat) in some of the later films. Casino Royale gets close to it, after he falls for Eva Green.
Casino Royale is the best of the films for this reason, but prevented from being a true classic by the overlong conclusion in Venice.
Agreed 100%. Post of the day.
What a shame none of the other Daniel Craig movies were any good*.
* If you'd cut about 35% out of Spectre, like all the subplot about 'C', and tightened up the rest, then it could have been a reasonable movie. I think Skyfall the most insanely over-rated of Bonds. And Quantum of Confusion is just pointless.
People who go on about Doctor Who, Sherlock or Star Wars are just GITS. Just stupid stupid GITS
GITS
There. I said it. What we were all thinking. Shut up you GITS.
Yeah - not like those of us who go on about politics, classical history, foreign travel, trains, cricket and F1 and the like.
Some of us all talk about all of those, Doctor Who, Sherlock or Star Wars, politics, classical history, foreign travel, trains, cricket and F1 and the like.
Indeed, for shame. I don't talk about trains, so I know I'm mr joe average though.
Macron v Le Pen, then. Macron is 39 years old. One is not supposed to mention that his wife is 24 years older than he is, and that they met when he was 15 and she was his school teacher. It’s the kind of thing voters claim not to notice while thinking it just a bit bizarre. Non?
On topic, from The Times report, my emphasis added
A YouGov poll for The Times found that despite widespread disapproval of the president and his policies , 49 per cent of voters think that the visit should go ahead because Britain has to deal with the elected leader of the US.
Proves that the man in the street is, on average, alot more sensible and mature than all the experts and agitators put together. Proud to be British.
Meanwhile, half of Britons support cancelling President Trump's proposed state visit after a petition to do so garnered more than a million signatures.
Some 49% support such a move, while 38% oppose withdrawing their invitation to Mr Trump.
Comments
Or perhaps the majority of the people in this country are just a bit more grown up than the media would have you believe. Who'd have thought?
Edit - on the other key story, nothing wrong with new tales on a character, it is a question of if race or gender is truly an integral part of the core of that character. It would be hard for black panther to not be played by a black actor after all. For the doctor, the most important thing is despite being an alien and capable of transformations, he/she must always be inexplicably British.
Trumps ban was chaotically and arbitrarily implemented, but entirely justified by his electoral mandate.
The closest anyone has come since is Eden in 1955 (which was also the last election that the Conservatives polled above 50% in their former stronghold of Scotland) - 49.5%. Curiously he won a much smaller majority than Macmillan did in 1959 on a fractionally lower share, largely thanks to the heavy squeeze on the Liberals who if memory serves polled something risible like 2% before recovering somewhat under Grimond's leadership.
@ydoethur Yes. I meant in modern times but said " in practice " which of course has a different meaning.
On the one hand our desperate need to be first to pay homage to the American president is depressing, but not exactly a new invention, so the fact of sucking up is not unusual or additionally humiliating, and I noted prior to the EO many lefties felt may had done an ok job, photo embarrassment or no.
On the other hand trump is distasteful in so many ways and the EO seems to have been a poorly put together policy on top of one most of us disagree with, and the government's response was very slow and weak because of our subordinate position.
Bottom line - it'd have been nice if we hadn't already offered a state visit, not right away, but having offered it it's hard to withdraw it given the people who have already had one, even accepting plenty weren't happy about those ones either.
A female James (Jane?) Bond would also be terrific for that franchise which is extremely tired.
I remember Spitting Image's brilliant song "I believe" about not believing that Reagan had been elected President. He turned out to be a very good President. I remember the disbelief when GW Bush was elected. He, not so much. Now we have disbelief at Trump. I do fear he will be in the latter category but however he turns out he is a reality that our leaders have to deal with.
Christopher Ecclestone was my favourite of the revival, he had the right air of menace, as indeed should James Bond. JB is licensed for extrajudicial killings after all, a Red White and Blue death squad.
https://youtu.be/x9eEk-S6RUc
Interesting polling. I think Rudd went too far (in terms of diverging from the PM). Mind you, I also said Rudd only got the job (at the time) to make May look smarter.
On Doctor Who: it is established that Time Lords can change gender but I believe that particular daftness came in with New Who. Could be wrong. Capaldi should've been a perfect fit but the episodes of his I watched were poor because of weak writing.
As an aside, the assistant has (in New Who) almost been leading more than following, so we'll see if that continues if we have a female Doctor and male companion. One suspects not.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Submarine, now I feel daft for not remembering that (rather good serial). However, it remains tosh.
It does rather beg the question of who should make such an invitation. Head of State or Head of Government?
For example if PM Corbyn invited the head of Hamas on a State visit, should tbe Queen comply?
With enemies like that I can at last understand how he won the presidency.
Indonesian clerics are preparing to issue a fatwa against “fake news” after a series of damaging hoaxes on social media which targeted the Chinese and Christian minorities.
The move follows growing concern in the world’s most populous Muslim nation about the spread of fake news – a phenomenon that has been credited with fuelling recent ethnic and political tensions.
Some of the spurious items in recent months include a claim that China was using contaminated chilli seeds to wage biological warfare against Indonesia, a claim that the design of new monetary notes contains an image of the communist hammer and sickle, and a claim that Indonesia has been inundated by ten million Chinese migrant workers (the government says the number was actually 21,000)...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/31/indonesia-prepares-issue-fatwa-against-fake-news/
So our largest single trading partner is someone we do not currently have a trade deal with. When people lament the on coming devastation and starvation inevitably going to be caused by even the possibility of some minor administrative inconvenience in trading with Germany or France they really should reflect on that.
The only positive from a female Doctor is on the Doctor Who forums some fans would go into meltdown.
Think PB when discusses AV meets One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest.
I signed both just to be difficult. I wish he hadn't been offered one right away, but do t actually think once offered we can withdraw it, so I thought I'd split the difference.
Macron v Le Pen, then. Macron is 39 years old. One is not supposed to mention that his wife is 24 years older than he is, and that they met when he was 15 and she was his school teacher. It’s the kind of thing voters claim not to notice while thinking it just a bit bizarre. Non?
Buy Le Pen. Sell EU.
https://reaction.life/fillon-looking-finished-french-election-looking-farcical-frightening/
Not sure my TV critique skills were that good then, or indeed now.
So... getting ready for a GE or by-elections?
Female James Bond? Well, an argument could be made being a somewhat skeezy ladies man is a key part of the role, but it's not like you couldn't make a movie about an attractive arse kicking female spy and call her bond. It would be nicer if we could more spy franchises than bond and the terribly dull bourne movies, why not a bond in all but name female spy? But it wouldn't be that bad - indeed, the best modern Holmes and Watson has a female Watson.
At primary school, we were also convinced that the revolting mashed potato was made from the giant maggots.
Or Jeremy Corbyn.
In a burqa.
Happy now Harriet?
Cartmel solved that conundrum by making it literary and political.
https://twitter.com/stephentall/status/826450397602652160
The (highly effective and uncorrupt) ethnic Chinese governor of Jakarta is being prosecuted for blasphemy - on the basis of a very selectively edited Youtube video of a speech he made (side note, the editor of that video, a University lecturer has also been charged).
He is currently running for re-election.
One of his opponents in the election is the son of the former President.
Yesterday in court the defence claimed that the former President called one of the Muslim bodies behind the push for prosecution urging them onwards to help his son.
Meanwhile the leader of the most hardline Muslim group agitating for the governor's prosecution is also being investigated for blasphemy against the Indonesian constitution - and claiming bank notes have secret communist symbols in them (they're standard security features) - they don't like it up em!
A few nights ago they held the second of two 'head to head' debates among the candidates - ruthlessly timed and unforgivingly invigilated (though some are asking for the first debate's invigilator back as she was even tougher).....
Casino Royale is the best of the films for this reason, but prevented from being a true classic by the overlong conclusion in Venice.
https://goo.gl/images/fz6Cz7
Arlene Foster is rated the lowest of any political leader in Northern Ireland as voters turn their back on DUP, poll reveals
The poll, by LucidTalk, also show Sinn Fein and its new Northern Ireland leader Michelle O’Neill riding high
https://www.thesun.ie/news/513568/arlene-foster-is-rated-the-lowest-of-any-political-leader-in-northern-ireland-as-voters-turn-their-back-on-dup-poll-reveals/
Twitter not happy......
They worked when they were Saturday afternoon flicks, but all the imposed deep meaning, fan references and expanded universes is utter bollocks.
It is squeezing out new ideas.
It's like in 1977 they had never released Star wars and stuck with the 15th sequel to the Wizard of Oz.
A YouGov poll for The Times found that despite widespread disapproval of the president and his policies , 49 per cent of voters think that the visit should go ahead because Britain has to deal with the elected leader of the US.
Whenever people complain about lack of new ideas, lamenting reboots or new sequels as though they are modern perils, I always bring up SHerlock Holmes, a character that has appeared in dozens of films and tv shows across many many decades,played indifferent ways by a great many different actors. Rehashing old ideas is not new. Rehashing old ideas is normal. Franchise settings are primarily for marketing purposes I am sure, but as a story telling device are not inherently worse than any other medium, if the writing is good and performances solid.
In my opinion the last few decades have been a golden age for tv for instance - there's more good stuff, some of it really innovative, than ever before. There has also been more dross than ever before. The problem, as it were, is like there not being enough news to fill 24 hr channels but filling it anyway - there are only so many good writers and actors out there, spread out over more content.
We could wel be on the travelator to, if not hell, to a very difficult place.
Does remind one of the Young Lady of Riga, though!
'Everyone in this Crouch End coffee shop supports AV / voted Labour / backs Remain / opposes Trump so who cares what they think in Nuneaton'
Then Sam Mendes came along. Pr*ck.
However late to the party I've just started watching ' Class ' the Doctor Who spin off. When I discovered they'd made the Hero character , the Prince , not only gay but with a polish immgrants boy friend well...
I managed to narrowly avoid spontaneously creaming myself in an orgasm of left liberal satisfaction. But I did gently kiss my tablet and whisper " thank you BBC." After the liberal apocalypse of the last 12 months a Gay Hero in a sci fi programme with a EU immgrants boyfriend was like a shaft of light from Heaven.
Worth all those Leave voters licence fees !
The poll has no data for:
- widespread disapproval of the president
It only has data on one of the President's policies:
Stop accepting refugees from Syria, put a 4 month ban on accepting any refugees and a 3 month ban on all travel to the USA by people from seven Muslim countries (Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan and Libya)
Where the split is 50% bad idea, 29% good idea
And it has no data to conclude that:
the visit should go ahead because Britain has to deal with the elected leader of the US
As the question asked was simply:
Donald Trump has been invited to make an official State Visit to Britain later this year, do you think this should go ahead or should it be cancelled?
What a shame none of the other Daniel Craig movies were any good*.
* If you'd cut about 35% out of Spectre, like all the subplot about 'C', and tightened up the rest, then it could have been a reasonable movie. I think Skyfall the most insanely over-rated of Bonds. And Quantum of Confusion is just pointless.
Frankly, I don't need to boast. Those that are interested can just watch my LiveCam.
Meanwhile, half of Britons support cancelling President Trump's proposed state visit after a petition to do so garnered more than a million signatures.
Some 49% support such a move, while 38% oppose withdrawing their invitation to Mr Trump.